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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-01-17

---Logopened Tue Jan 17 00:00:12 2012
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04:49<brendan10211>since when?
04:49*andythenorth is bidding to redefine 'sledgehammer -> nut'
04:50<brendan10211>sledgehammer ~> nut
04:53<appe_>badum budum bumbumbom
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04:54<appe_>np: peter gabriel - sledgehammer
04:54<@peter1138>np: richard harris - macarthur park
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06:16<xiong>A couple of years ago, when I first installed OpenTTD, it ate 100% CPU as soon as started. It hasn't done that in a long time and I'm ashamed to say I can't recall the fix.
06:16<xiong>Now I've got the chillpack version going and it eats CPU, too; I'm hoping it's the same fix... if I could figure out what that was.
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06:27<xiong>Ah. Well, if anyone else has the same issue: This is related to sound (which I'd rather not have anyway); launch $ openttd -snull
06:27<xiong>pulseaudio stinks.
06:27<xiong>I can't imagine how I remembered.
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06:50<@blathijs>xiong: Just to prevent (possibly) incorrect assumptions: Did you consider pulseaudio might just allows you to smell what ALSA really smells like?
06:50<@blathijs>Or SDL, for that matter
06:51<xiong>Um, this is all uncharted waters for me. I very rarely turn on computer sound at all, for any purpose. I live a very quiet life, probably drive most people nuts. I go a weekend, no teevee, no radio.
06:52<xiong>I do talk to myself! :)
06:54<xiong>I'll bet if I got OTTD sound working I'd hear steam whistles and banjos. That would be fine... if they were steam whistles and banjos instead of a cheesy little laptop speaker pretending.
06:54<@blathijs>headphones? :-)
06:56<xiong>My neighbors think I'm dead. I do nothing to upset their assumptions.
06:57<xiong>BTW, chillpack is... *very* interesting.
06:58<@blathijs>What's chillpack?
06:58<@planetmaker>it's the most popular existing patchpack for OpenTTD at the moment
06:58<Elukka>chill's patchpack
06:59<@planetmaker>which we even compile on our CF ;-)
06:59<@blathijs>Ah, right :-)
07:00<Elukka>i think i'll become a convert if he finds the time to update it to a more recent revision...
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08:11<@Yexo>see development section of the forums
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10:38*kais58 high 5's heffer for pushing the build to updates-testing, just need to wait for it to filter down to updates now...
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11:21<@Belugas>i'm bored.. "you have to do this". "i'm doing that for customer xyz". "Do this, it's more important". "Are you going to tell customer xyz i cannot work on his stuff?" "No, you'll do it"
11:21<@Belugas>yeah right...
11:22*planetmaker hugs Belugas
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11:25<@planetmaker>brendan10211 is a bot
11:25<brendan10211>im just bored, and have nothing to say
11:25<brendan10211>i guess i just shouldnt say it
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12:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23817 /trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
12:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4962]: desync due to different NewGRF version. So reduce the chance
12:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: that it happens significantly with betas/RCs/nightlies by doing the same as is
12:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: done for stable releases: check the NewGRF version of server vs client.
12:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: Previously this check was not done for nightlies/betas/RCs due to missing
12:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: versioning information in the source tarballs, but they have that for a while
12:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: now. So just force the NewGRF version check for all versions, and remove the
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13:06<@Alberth>hi andy
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13:08<@Alberth>what's the state of the idea of using m4?
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13:12<Chris_Booth>anyone seen mrsmatz pm or amm1er?
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13:16<andythenorth>Alberth: the m4 looks interesting
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13:17<andythenorth>the example you pasted (imho) heads towards being a complete generator
13:17<andythenorth>which is more than I need I think ;)
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13:17<andythenorth>I decided that arbitrary scalability of the number of trailers was overkill
13:18<@Alberth>I was quite clueless what you actually needed :)
13:19<@Alberth>I think it is a step forward w.r.t. cpp. Whether it is enough is another matter.
13:19<andythenorth>might be too much even
13:20<@Alberth>One further step could be to write a code generator in Python, or even to add a front-end to NML
13:20<andythenorth>I think that mostly substituting constants is the safer route for sanity
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>my generator has an "arbitrary" number of trailers, but always in the form AB*C, which is sufficient to cover most MUs and also steam engines with tenders
13:21<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: more than that would become too confusing, I'd say
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>i have two or three cases where it's not sufficient, for that i introduced the concept of "custom" callbacks, where i include a manually written pnml file
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13:23<andythenorth>I am going to do something bonkers - and write a dumb code generator in a web framework
13:23<andythenorth>this is not a wise idea, but will amuse me
13:23<andythenorth>but first, toddler -> bath
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13:28<Eddi|zuHause>anyone notice the irony in "unlocked achievement: locked"? :p
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13:33<frosch123>what are you playing?
13:34<@Alberth>a NoGo script with achievements perhaps? :)
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>i'm reading the forum
13:37<frosch123>i am generating maps
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13:41<Muxy>hello guys
13:44<Muxy>i have Rubidium & TrueBrain
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r23819 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4951]: Removal of towns with 0 population failed during map generation.
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r23818 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by KorneySan
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 7 changes by jpx_
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 110 changes by OliTTD
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by NG
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 7 changes by lorenzodv
13:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23820 /trunk/src/lang/slovenian.txt: -Fix (r23818): WT3 validation failure
13:48<Muxy>ok last point : i would like to use the CLIEN_JOIN message to trigger a welcome message with chat. This message is sent when the ClientSocket has a status who does bot allow chat sending.
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13:53<Muxy>and from the bot side i will never know (time only if no disconnect) if the client has a STATUS_ACTIVE.
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13:54<Eddi|zuHause>did i miss one half of the conversation or is this really just incoherent babble?
13:55<@Yexo>you probably missed FS#4973
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>@fs 4973
13:55<@Alberth>'missed' is somewhat of an over estimation :)
13:57<andythenorth>tieske100 redeemed themselves
13:57<andythenorth>with a thanks
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15:02<_mj>hi, I came here with a specific problem a few days ago, maybe somebody can try to help me now (now that my code is updated to compile against the recent ottd version)
15:03<_mj>it was about the CommandCost object with isn't correctly initialized for no apparent reason
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>No Question - No Code - No Help
15:12<@Rubidium>what? Are you telling what TB's new projects are going to be?
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>haha :)
15:13<@Rubidium>oh shit...
15:13<@Rubidium>No Qubicles ;)
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>and "NoCo" is where you first remove all code from the repo, and start implementing from scratch? :)
15:15<@Alberth>or No Company :p
15:15<@Rubidium>so a better scenario editor
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>"do you want to send all your data to mozilla?"
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>i guess rather not...
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15:19<_mj>question: why isn't loc_cost initialized like the other two instances of CommandCost ?
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15:22<@Alberth>why are you reading from a NULL reference ? (it seems)
15:22<Jogio>good evening "_"
15:22<@Alberth> CommandCost(ExpensesType ex_t, const Money &cst)
15:23<_mj>:O, wait a second
15:23<@Alberth>evenink Jogio
15:24<_mj>was it always this way ? it doesn't make any sense, the way I have done it
15:25<@Rubidium>what (optimisation) compile flags do you use?
15:25<@Alberth>Since r22629
15:26<Jogio>I have to thank someone but first I have to read my emails
15:27<@Rubidium>yeah, the 0 is probably the culprit
15:27<_mj>-march=prescott -O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer
15:28<_mj>I need to check at which game version this problem occured first for me, but that way it looks nonsensical, thanks for pointing this out
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15:28<_mj>I assumed it was expecting a money value not a reference
15:29<@Rubidium>it's always initialised with a cost of 0
15:29<@Rubidium>unless you pass a Cost
15:29<Jogio>thanks Rubidium, finally I can change things in translation now :-)
15:29<@Alberth>that was my idea too when I first saw your code, but it did not make sense in the debugger under that assumption :)
15:33<_mj>is 'Money m = 0;' ok to do ?
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15:33<@Yexo>in C++ I'd expect "Money m(0);"
15:34<APTX>both can work
15:34<@Rubidium>but there's no reason to add it to the parameters of CommandCost
15:35<Dozzer_X>How can I stop the tram sounds? I already deactivated SFX...
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15:35<@Yexo>you can mute sounds from the second-right button in the main toolbar
15:38<_mj>hm, unfortunately the problem keeps reoccuring. I tried initializing the money value as '= 0' as 'm(0)' and with just 'Money m', and I finally left it out altogether
15:38<_mj>but the loc_cost value looks very messed up, still
15:38<_mj>I also tried using the debug function from the game and it produces the same number as gdb shows
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15:42<@Rubidium>if I copy just the three CommandCosts, then it works fine
15:43<@Rubidium>do you have a full diff?
15:43<@Yexo>_mj: did you also try "CommandCost cc(EXPENSES_NEW_VEHICLES);"?
15:45<_mj>Yexo: I tried it just now, cc is still initialized correctly without the 0
15:45<_mj>Rubidium, I have, let me quick upload it
15:46<Dozzer_X><@Yexo> you can mute sounds from the second-right button in the main toolbar >> The second-right button is the news button
15:46<@Yexo>ok, "some button near the right end of the main toolbar" :p
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15:47<Dozzer_X>right end > Music (MSX - deactivated), news and help
15:47<@Yexo>click the "Sound/music" button
15:48<@Yexo>a window opens were you can set "music volume" and "effects volume"
15:48<@Rubidium>but 1e verdieping = 2nd floor
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15:48<@Yexo>set the second one to "Min"
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15:54<_mj>Rubidium: << took a little bit because (this time) I wanted to make sure that it compiles against the newest trunk version
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15:58<@Yexo>_mj: how to trigger that function?
15:59<Dozzer_X>Cheats don't work for me btw
15:59<@Yexo>Dozzer_X: "don't work" is too vague
15:59<@Yexo>do you know how to open the cheat window?
15:59<Dozzer_X>CTRL ALT C
15:59<Dozzer_X>I suppose
15:59<Dozzer_X>It worked for me in november
15:59<@Yexo>try ctrl+alt+meta+c if that doesn't work
16:00<_mj>Yexo: its a bit complicated, sry. I should just upload my savegame too, it is set up for this
16:00<Dozzer_X>It worked, thanks
16:00<@Yexo>in that case you have some other software installed that catches the ctrl+alt+c shortcut before openttd gets it
16:01<_mj>Yexo: << I use this save game
16:01<_mj>for checking I use gdb and set a breakpoint with: "b aaa_template_vehicle_func.cpp:623"
16:02<@Yexo>loc_cost looks empty as expected for me
16:02<@Rubidium>if I add a few printfs like printf("val: %i\n", (int)loc_cost.GetCost());
16:02<@Rubidium>all the command costs have 0 cost
16:03<_mj>this is what I tried too
16:04<@Rubidium>and expenses type is 1
16:05<_mj>you're right, maybe it is just in gdb
16:05<_mj>what I tried before was DEBUG, not printf, it gave me the same output as gdb iirc
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16:06<@Rubidium>even in gdb it looks right to me
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>must be solar flares
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>aurora borealis
16:07<_mj>hm and succeeded is 1
16:08<andythenorth>"python is so fun"
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16:08<_mj>what is my gdb doing :/ but thanks for your help, I think I can assume that it is treated right within the game
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16:09<@Rubidium>try a different version of the compiler?
16:10<_mj>uh, its gentoo, gcc always takes so long to compile ^^
16:10<_mj>I am using 4.5.3 right now
16:10<@Yexo>CommandCost aa(EXPENSES_NEW_VEHICLES, 0); <- why doesn't that trigger at least a warning?
16:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23821 /trunk/src/network/network_command.cpp: -Fix-ish: when replaying a command log, ignore the command limit
16:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23822 /trunk/src/ (company_cmd.cpp network/network_internal.h): -Fix-ish: when replaying make sure companies get created even if their creating client doesn't exist during the replay
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16:16<_mj>Yexo: because the reference is set as const ? When I make a little test program its the same - as long as the ref is const
16:17<_mj>if it isn't it's an error to give 0 as argument where a ref is expected
16:18<+michi_cc>No, passing 0 is totally fine here as Money has an constructor that takes an int64. As it isn't declared as 'explicit', the compiler will just construct a temporary Money with value 0.
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16:31*andythenorth lol
16:32<andythenorth>I have built a dumb object database for trucks, and am rendering the defines out :P
16:32<andythenorth>which is more work than other methods, but amuses me
16:34<@Alberth>having fun in what you do is the key part :)
16:39<andythenorth>it uses some python:
16:39<andythenorth>which no-one but me will probably understand :P
16:40<andythenorth>and a template (unfinished):
16:40<andythenorth>which renders out html that I paste into a local file
16:40<andythenorth>this is all very silly
16:40<andythenorth>the makefile could curl the text and write it locally when run
16:41<valhalla1w>andythenorth: you could user the a = b = c python idiom to clarify the first line in the loop
16:41<valhalla1w>and use "THIS_TRAILER_%i_ID" % j
16:41<valhalla1w>instead of the str(j) concatenation
16:41<andythenorth>I never grok the % implementation though
16:42<andythenorth>so I build big clunky concatenations
16:42<valhalla1w>%i = int(val), %s = str(val), %r = repr(val), %f = float(val), and the rest is just standard printf stuff?
16:42<andythenorth>just my brain never got it somehow
16:43<andythenorth>the a = b = c is nice
16:43<andythenorth>switched that in
16:43<valhalla1w>is id() a string or an int?
16:43<andythenorth>it's a call
16:44<@Alberth>valhalla1w: %s works for anything that has a str()
16:44<andythenorth>the call returns a string
16:44<SpComb>you can't `"foo" + 5`
16:45<valhalla1w>Alberth: I know. Why?
16:45<@Alberth>%i = int(val) %f = float(val) <-- %s also works
16:46<@Alberth>andythenorth: id() returns an int here
16:46<valhalla1w>Alberth: for ints and floats specifically: yes
16:47<@Alberth>for anything that has str(), ie a class with C.__str__(self) too :)
16:48<SpComb>very few types don't have a __str__
16:48<valhalla1w>again, yes - but if you want a number, you should use a number format, not a string format
16:49*SpComb requests GPL source from andythenorth
16:49*Alberth only uses %d or %f for special formatting, as in %02d or %.2f
16:49<andythenorth>SpComb: for...? :)
16:50<SpComb>the bit where it says "Source available on request"!
16:50<@Alberth>andythenorth: just send him everything to be safe :)
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16:50<andythenorth>SpComb: I should remove that :)
16:50<andythenorth>and link the repos
16:50<valhalla1w>Alberth: as long as you don't do it for {SQL, popen, etc}, it's probably fine ;-)
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16:51<@Alberth>hmm, too fast for me :)
16:51<@Alberth>anyways, time to go too, bye
16:51<valhalla1w>Alberth: and of course, using %i and %f helps to communicate what you expect
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16:52<valhalla1w>anyway, good night.
16:53<valhalla1w>SpComb: I only do that with the evil antipattern "%(foo)i" % locals()
16:53<@Alberth>SpComb that's Python3, isn't it?
16:53<SpComb>str.format is like {foo:d} or something esoteric
16:53<SpComb>you have to go click through about five links in the online docs to figure out the format
16:53<valhalla1w>>>> "%(foo)i"% { 'foo': 10}
16:53<SpComb>and then reverse-engineer a couple examples if you want to do stuff like zero-padding
16:54<@Alberth>oh dictionaries. I remember now, never used that
16:54<valhalla1w>>>> "%(foo)09i"% { 'foo': 10}
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16:54<valhalla1w>and if you want spaces instead, you can actually just use a space instead of the 0
16:54<SpComb>>>> "{foo:09d}".format(foo=10)
16:55*valhalla1w shudders
16:55<valhalla1w>why did they change the format?!
16:55<SpComb>.format is nice otherwise, though
16:55<SpComb>>>> "{foo.__class__}".format(foo=10)
16:55<SpComb>"<type 'int'>"
16:55<SpComb>you've always needed it
16:56<welshdragon>can I remove the limit for the distance a town is permitted near the edge?
16:56<SpComb>okay, bad example :)
16:56<valhalla1w>SpComb: oh, that is actually sort of nice
16:56<valhalla1w>real templating
16:56<SpComb>sans loops or conditionals
16:57<valhalla1w>and functions
16:57<valhalla1w>AttributeError: 'test' object has no attribute 'a()'
16:57<SpComb>you can fake it with [...] :)
16:59<valhalla1w>I could make a property out of it, but that's not really the point, right?
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17:02<@Yexo>welshdragon: only by modifying the source code
17:06<andythenorth>ho ho ho
17:06<andythenorth>my system works
17:06<andythenorth>what larks
17:07<andythenorth>all I have to do is put a web form on the front, and you can edit your own BANDIT :P
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17:14<andythenorth>good night
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17:19<@Terkhen>good night
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17:56<kais58>TrueBrain: could you help fix/merge my accounts on the site, it's borked for me?
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17:58<TrueBrain>ugh, I should remove the merge stuff; it is very old
18:00<kais58>I still don't have, my account set up right from that, I seem to remember I put my email in wrong from the merge and so can't get acces to my account now
18:00<TrueBrain>I can check tomorrow; to tired now
18:00<TrueBrain>but it will be the last account I look into :P
18:00<kais58>ok, thanks
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19:07<Eddi|zuHause>"Iran will give back the US drone they captured. as a 1:80 model"
19:09<Elukka>what a dick move! it just won't fit their model railways
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19:14<Afdal>Got a quick question if anyone can answer it
19:15<Afdal>Is profit calculated by distance from station to station or from source to accepting industry?
19:15<Mark>from station sign to station sign
19:15<Afdal>You mean where the label is for the station?
19:15<Afdal>So I could make
19:16<Afdal>part of a station to manipulate where the label goes
19:16<Afdal>and then make the rest of it to manipulate the distance calculation
19:16<Afdal>cool, thanks
19:16<Mark>thats why most servers use limited station spread
19:16<Afdal>Well you could even
19:16<Afdal>make part of it where part of the whole station is going to be
19:17<Mark>wont make too much of a difference though
19:17<Mark>only if its over a very short distance
19:19<Afdal>Neat trick to know when playing for profit though
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22:38<Office>Long time no see...
22:38-!-Office is now known as Alltaken
22:38<Alltaken>I mean, long time no see as Alltaken :-)
22:39<Alltaken>Out of curiosity, is anyone here doing anything with the 32bpp development. I'm trying to track down the Blender Lighting setup files etc...
22:46<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think any of these guys roam around here
22:58<Alltaken>that is a shame
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23:35<+glx>Alltaken: TrueBrain recently did some stuff with blender but he's probably still sleeping
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 18 00:00:17 2012