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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-01-28

---Logopened Sat Jan 28 00:00:49 2012
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03:36<andythenorth>trying to put arbitrary attributes on a python obj by iterating over a dict in the __init__ method - stupid?
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03:46<@Terkhen>good morning
03:48<andythenorth>hola Terkhen
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03:52<andythenorth>there's an example that shows using dict as a superclass of my class for the same result
03:52<andythenorth>but apparently it's a bad pattern (leaks memory easily)
03:52<andythenorth>maybe I just write everything out longhand :P
03:53<andythenorth>stupider is easier to understand
03:54<Eddi|zuHause>if you're really evil, you can modify self.__dict__ directly :)
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04:07*andythenorth is not that evil :P
04:08*andythenorth is writing out attributes longhand
04:08<andythenorth>no ** args evilness
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04:43<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you seen the evilness i use in and :)
04:44<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: and especially in :)
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05:05<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I have seen that you have a lot of 'code is strings' :P
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05:45<Rhamphoryncus>Oh, nice. Upgrading to faster train cars is actually slowing the trains down. They don't have the power for the extra bit of weight
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05:47<LordAro>mornings (again)
05:47<andythenorth>Rhamphoryncus: my python local assignment question last night was dumb ;)
05:48<Rhamphoryncus>The best ones are ;)
05:48<andythenorth>I'm now doing my_list.append(MyClass()) to get a list of class instances
05:48<andythenorth>dunno if that's good, but it's a pattern I use a lot :P
05:48<andythenorth>dunno why I forgot it
05:53<Rhamphoryncus>set should also be considered, depending on your needs
06:03<andythenorth>set is iterable I assume
06:07*LordAro ponders if Truebrain/Rubidium has yet seen FS#5015...
06:07<LordAro>@fs 5015
06:08<@Rubidium>LordAro: maybe use the right URL?
06:09<@Rubidium> should work
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06:11<@Rubidium> doesn't. Primarily because it doesn't exist anywhere
06:11*andythenorth proposes a version of ottd where infrastructure and operating companies are separate
06:11<andythenorth>for 'reality' :P
06:12<andythenorth>we would need to add new parts of the gui for 'protracted negotiation' and 'courtroom'
06:12*MNIM proposes andythenorth programs it and builds the ai for it
06:12*MNIM gets bricked.
06:12<@Rubidium>LordAro: *also* not on the mirrors. Mostly because the mirrors use "<their URI for OpenTTD mirror>/<stuff after in the binaries URL>"
06:13<@Rubidium>e.g. the first part for the NL mirror is ""; you can see this by going to
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06:16<LordAro>well, the gb mirror does something funny then, as exists
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06:18<@Rubidium>LordAro: in your "test script" add the binaries/ to the nightly path as well and try again. It will fail twice
06:18<TrueBrain>and for that reason I just closed the bug :) Not a bug :D
06:19<@Rubidium><BLA> redirects to<BLA>
06:19<LordAro>very well, thanks for the pointers
06:19<@Rubidium>and for nl it's even<BLA>
06:19<TrueBrain>LordAro: best is to copy the links from our website
06:19<TrueBrain>they are always correct :)
06:19<TrueBrain>(and not press them, copy them, remove the language part)
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06:19<TrueBrain>some mirrors give us less control in what is public
06:20<LordAro>i guess i should've asked here first, but it was late, and i didn't want to forget anything
06:20<TrueBrain>its fine :)
06:20<TrueBrain>it is just a bit funny that you did add /binaries in one link, and not in the other :)
06:20<TrueBrain>should have been a hint there :D:D :)
06:21<LordAro>it was late :P
06:21<LordAro>and i must have sort of assumed they were in completely different folders.... or something :)
06:22<TrueBrain>they are not :) The links are very predefined :)
06:22<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: if you're up for easy bugs (to work around): Slovak is screwed again in WT3 and FS#4993 needs your attention ;)
06:22<TrueBrain>Rubidium: you do know you also know how to fix it, right? :)
06:22<TrueBrain>its running
06:23<@Rubidium>the screwed Slovak? No, I don't know how to fix that bug. Only how to work around it ;)
06:23<@Rubidium>but I'm always having to hunt which script it was exactly
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07:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r23860 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: [NewGRF] Add cargo property 1D to set the capacity multipliers when refitting vehicles, which do not use callback 15.
07:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r23861 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp engine_type.h):
07:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Feature: [NewGRF] New algorithm (activated via an engine flag) to determine the
07:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: capacity of vehicles. This allows vehicles to better control the capacity for
07:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: cargotypes which they know; and let cargo NewGRFs influence the capacity for
07:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: cargos the vehicle NewGRF does not know, but which the vehicle is refittable to
07:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: due to cargo classes.
07:15<frosch123>i can type long messages as well :p
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07:17<@Rubidium>frosch123: but it's neither truncated by CIA nor by DorpsGek
07:18<frosch123>hmm, true, so it is not that long
07:19<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
07:22<Hirundo>There used to be 1 complicated capacity algorithm to document to NML users
07:23<frosch123>now there are two :p
07:23<Hirundo>Now there are 2, plus a flag to select one of them
07:23<Hirundo>That's progress :-)
07:23<frosch123>imo you should always set that flag, and add two properties "capacity for known cargos" and "capacity for unknown cargos"
07:24<frosch123>everything else will break when industry grfs really start to use the new cargo property
07:24<Hirundo>how would these properties work internally?
07:26<frosch123>one property sets the capacity in "tons of coal", the other must check the current cargo type and can then return whatever capacity it likes
07:26<frosch123>maybe you can also archieve that via "units"
07:26<frosch123>but i do not know how nml deals with units, and where it can deal with them
07:26<Hirundo>properties or callbacks?
07:27<frosch123>the property would have two units, either "tons coal", or "units of default cargo"
07:28<frosch123>the callback would have "tons of coal", or "tons of selected cargo"
07:28<Hirundo>Then set the misc flag based on the unit selected in the property?
07:29<frosch123>(of course "units of default cargo" makes no sense, if the default cargo is the first refittable. but that is exactly what the new algorithm is about)
07:29<frosch123>Hirundo: yes
07:29<Hirundo>Problem with that is, that you cannot set one flag at a time, only the whole mask
07:30<Hirundo>action 0 is like write only memory
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07:31<frosch123>hmm, so you would have to analyse all "if"s when combing them :o
07:32<Hirundo>that's O(2^N) :-(
07:33<Hirundo>Reading support for action 0 properties would be nice, esp. for the many cases where unrelated stuff is put in one property
07:34<Hirundo>Complex stuff like layouts and such can of course not be read, but simple stuff can
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07:53<Hirundo>frosch123: For now I see no real way to always enable the flag, except by politely asking the user
07:54<frosch123>does nml actually have a "default cargo type" property?
07:54<Hirundo>no(t yet)
07:54<Hirundo>in grfv7 it was automagically set to 'first refittable'
07:54<frosch123>well, then maybe just set the property for nml 0.3 and redefine the property?
07:55<frosch123>i.e. make it a 0.3 change
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07:55<frosch123>if you have no specific default cargo, then not setting that property only works by luck :p
07:55<Hirundo>adding 'default ctype' property is no real problem, but I don't see the connection here
07:56<frosch123>if you have a vehicle carrying coal and goods, the meaning on the value depends on the availability of COAL
07:57<Hirundo>in fact, it depends on the order of coal and goods in your ctt
07:57<frosch123>if you set the capacity to 4, and coal is available, then default cargo will be coal. the vehicle will carry 4 tons of coal or 8 crates of goods
07:57<frosch123>if coal is not available, then goods will be the default cargo, and it will carry 4 crates of goods
07:57<Hirundo>I know
07:58<Hirundo>Which is why I documented, that you should always use the callback (15) when working with pax/mail/goods
07:58<Hirundo>But with the new multiplier, the effect might be worse
07:59<frosch123>i think you can still state that
08:00<frosch123>but you need to make it transparent to the user, whether he is using cb 15 or cb 36
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08:01<Hirundo>either callbacks should be split, or some variable should be created to indicate which callback you are in
08:09<MJP>Hi! In the function DeleteWindowById() (in window.cpp), I can't understand the check. Shouldn't it be something more like "(w && (force || (w->flags & WF_STICKY) == 0))" instead ?
08:14<@Terkhen>what are you trying to do?
08:17<MJP>I was looking for something like FocusWindowById() so I took DeleteWindowById() as a model but the check seems wrong to me
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08:25<Steve^>So.. installing
08:25<@SmatZ>MJP: the check looks fine
08:25<Steve^>Put graphics in ~/.openttd/baseset
08:25<@SmatZ>delete NULL is valid
08:25<frosch123>MJP: calling "delete NULL" is no problem
08:25<Steve^>Still get "Error: Failed to find a graphics set. Please acquire a graphics set for OpenTTD."
08:25<frosch123>Steve^: what version of openttd did you install?
08:26<@Yexo><Hirundo> either callbacks should be split, or some variable should be created to indicate which callback you are in <- there is already a variable "current_callback"
08:26<MJP>oh, ok then, thanks for your answers
08:26<frosch123>Steve^: than put the baseset into ~/.openttd/data
08:27<Steve^>I'm confused..
08:27<frosch123>~/.openttd/baseset is for 1.2
08:27<Steve^>why are all the instructions not related to the latest version?
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08:27<frosch123>they are already for the new version of 1.2-betas :)
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08:27<Steve^>Are they stable enough I should use them insterad?
08:28<frosch123>"latest" is a fishy term if there is stable, beta and nightlies
08:28<@Yexo>yes, they are stable enough
08:28<@Yexo>if you want to play multiplayer use 1.1.5, otherwise 1.2.0-beta3 or a recent nightly
08:28<Hirundo>Yexo: I know, but it is not something I'd like exposed to users unless needed
08:28<@Yexo>I agree there
08:29<Steve^>Looks like doesn't mention /data
08:29<@Yexo>Steve^: that's the readme for 1.2.0-beta3, not for 1.1.5
08:29<Steve^>it's the one on the 1.1.5 download page
08:30<frosch123>hmm, yeah, that is unfortunate
08:30<frosch123>TrueBrain: can we link to the right readme somehow?
08:30<@Yexo>Steve^: for 1.1 use this:
08:30<Steve^>Why don't you bundle all the opengfx etc with the main download?
08:31<frosch123>to save bandwidth
08:31<@Yexo>because when you update openttd you don't need to download opengfx again
08:31<@Yexo>and if you use 1.2 openttd offers to download and install opengfx when you run it the first time
08:32<Steve^>Wish I'd just used 1.2 to start with :)
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08:34<@Terkhen>Steve^: <--- the version stuff can be confusing at first, this is a good start
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08:37<TrueBrain>frosch123: you really have to give me some context, as 2 lines higher and 2 lines lower does not give me any indication what you talk about :)
08:37<@Yexo>TrueBrain: links to which is the readme for 1.2.0-beta3, not 1.1.5
08:38<@Yexo>the directory structure changed slightly, so it's confusing
08:38<TrueBrain>see, that is useful; at least context where the link is not right :P
08:38<frosch123>i was about to post the same :(
08:38<TrueBrain>I wonder why the fuck it links to that url in the first place
08:39<TrueBrain>that is silly at best
08:39<Steve^>Is it possible to reverse the right click scroll direction?
08:39<frosch123>it's a website, so whaT?
08:39<@Yexo> <- there is a changelog there, perhaps copy readme too?
08:39<frosch123>Steve^: yes, see advanced settings->intercae
08:39<TrueBrain>Yexo: yeah, I was considering the same
08:39<TrueBrain>would be the only sane solution
08:39<TrueBrain>to add the readme there
08:39<TrueBrain>otherwise you will keep having the issue over and over
08:39<TrueBrain>(as the nightlies are not correct etc)
08:39<Steve^>frosch123: perfect, thanks
08:41<TrueBrain>but first I wonder what updates that link, as .... media should not be used like that
08:41<TrueBrain>it is not even a symlink; Rubidium, do you update that file on release, or?
08:41<TrueBrain>(file being
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08:44<TrueBrain>ah, nevermind , found it; finger update script :)
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09:11<TrueBrain>Yexo / frosch123: I fixed it somewhat; nightlies ar enow broken, but that will hopefully be fixed by next release :)
09:11<@Yexo>as in: in a few hours?
09:11<TrueBrain>when-ever the next nightly is
09:12<@Yexo>basically all old releases have a broken link now I guess
09:12<Steve^>who, road signals give a lot of warning!
09:12<TrueBrain>I fixed up all releases
09:12<Steve^>I guess gone are the TTD days of random explosions
09:12<@Yexo>oh, great :)
09:12<TrueBrain>only nightlies are 'broken'
09:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r23862 /trunk/src/table/cargo_const.h: -Fix (r23860): Fix sweets capacity.
09:13<TrueBrain>(and 'broken' between quotes, as I guess it is better to have a 404 than wrong info :D)
09:13<@planetmaker>hm, could it not link to the readme in the svn, like a perma-link?
09:14<@Yexo>planetmaker: not for alternative releases like cargodist/chillpp etc.
09:15<@planetmaker>No, just for our nightlies the readme could point to
09:15<TrueBrain>and if you request an older nightly?
09:15<TrueBrain>how about, for example, head-to-head?
09:17<@planetmaker>well, the changelog is correctly linked. Why not the readme?
09:17<TrueBrain>and welcome to 1 hour ago :D
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09:44<Steve^>do rivers grow back? :(
09:49<theholyduck>i have a question directed at the general community
09:49<theholyduck>why is it that when playing online, i only see 2 principle type of players
09:49<theholyduck>the point to pointers and the network where every single tile has a pbs signal
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09:56<frosch123>theholyduck: you are playing on the wrong servers :p
09:56<frosch123>the latter type might disappear with 1.2 and infrastructure maintenance
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09:58<theholyduck>frosch123, i find myself almost never using pbs signals, because they're pretty much worse or just as good as any of the other options. also they are ugly
09:58<theholyduck>as in they look ugly :P
10:00<theholyduck>frosch123, speaking of wrong servers, whats with all the servers with the original train physics?
10:00<frosch123>what about all those servers which noone plays on?
10:01<theholyduck>frosch123, well, i find if you join them at a low year count, people will come
10:01<theholyduck>my problem is half the servers i join have something about them i despise
10:02*theholyduck goes away to be angry somewhere else
10:07<Ammler>setup your own server, there are too few around anyway
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10:23<theholyduck>Ammler, thats another option i guess.
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10:35<frosch123>hmm, sometimes stuff is broken that used to work before
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12:23<andythenorth>which is easier to read (when working with code)?
12:23<andythenorth>spritegroup ${}_sg {
12:23<andythenorth>spritegroup ${ + '_sg'} {
12:23<andythenorth>the explicit concatenation is entirely pointless but is it more obvious what's happening?
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12:28<frosch123>are you reopening the chapter on macro processer development? i thought it was commonly agreed on, that that was finished around 1970? :p
12:28<andythenorth>I'm just checking sanity
12:28<andythenorth>I prefer spritegroup ${}_sg
12:29<andythenorth>in my day job I sometimes have to do the explicit concatenation, so I'm used to it
12:29<andythenorth>it's worse though
12:30<frosch123>well ${ + '_sg'} is unusual. i expected ${}_sg or ${} + "_sg"
12:30<frosch123>or ${echo ${} '_sg'}
12:31<andythenorth>can evaluate arbitrary python within the {}
12:31<andythenorth>may not be smart though
12:31*andythenorth is possibly about to get a lot less moany about the state of nml
12:31<frosch123>$ is for shell variables :)
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12:32*andythenorth might also stop asking dumb cpp questions
12:32<andythenorth>but first - chores :P
12:32<andythenorth>here's my set btw:
12:32<andythenorth>fun fun fun
12:35<frosch123>i see a long line
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12:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r23863 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Fix (r22981): '' != ' == 0'.
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12:58*andythenorth ponders finding a pretty printer for dicts :P
12:58<andythenorth>one line being sub-optimal
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13:11<andythenorth>more, simpler templates with duplicated code?
13:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r23864 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Railtype overlays were drawn 'only transparent' on invisible bridges.
13:11<andythenorth>or one complicated template that's harder to read?
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13:25<mr_boo>click it just for views please
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13:34<cmircea>Is it still possible to remove/add NewGRFs while in a game?
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r23865 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt vietnamese.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 109 changes by OliTTD
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: vietnamese - 3 changes by nglekhoi
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14:36<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r23866 /trunk/src/newgrf_railtype.cpp: -Feature: [NewGRF] Give NewGRF defined level crossings and rail depots access to the townzone.
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14:45<SummerBul>anyone here?
14:46<SummerBul>I'm looking for help with setting a goal for a multiplayer game
14:47<@Rubidium>what version of OpenTTD?
14:48<frosch123>(don't answer something < 1.2-beta)
14:49<frosch123>cheater :p
14:49<SummerBul>if to be exact
14:49<frosch123> <- take a look at the topics starting with [NoGo]
14:50<frosch123>pick an interesting one, download it via the ingame download, configure it in the main menu, and start a server
14:50<@Rubidium>in OpenTTD you can in the intro game click on AI/Game settings, then on Check online content. At the bottom of the list there are a few goal scripts you can download
14:51<@Rubidium>after downloading it, select it in the AI/Game settings window
14:51<andythenorth>using python to run my script, this works for paths: path = os.getcwd()
14:51<andythenorth>but when I add a shebang and try and execute it, it fails
14:51<andythenorth>os.path stuff confuses me
14:51<andythenorth>is there a simple answer?
14:52<andythenorth>I need the path to be ../sprites/nml
14:53<SummerBul>the thing is, i'm not getting any NoGo script in the online content download mwnu
14:53<@Rubidium>SummerBul: at the bottom there are some game scripts
14:53<SummerBul>Rubidium, that sounds more reasonable
15:01<SummerBul>The online content only lists 4 game scripts. none of them include a simple "Reach 20 Mil" or "Claim a city and have it's population reach 100k
15:02<@Rubidium>then nobody made that goal script yet
15:02<@Rubidium>or rather, nobody release such a goal script
15:02<SummerBul>but it exists in lots of online servers
15:02<@Rubidium>as I said, nobody has released it
15:03<SummerBul>So how do i write my one script?
15:04<@Rubidium>sadly enough it seems you have to do that
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15:05<@Rubidium>I have never made a goal script, so I can't really tell you
15:07<SummerBul>no wiki?
15:07<frosch123>SummerBul: <- read that, and replace every occurence of "AI" with "GS" resp. "NoAI" with "NoGo". also take a look at
15:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23867 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#5020]: make the colour of the dropdown items for opening the vehicle list for which the company has no vehicles looking less horrid
15:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r23868 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix [FS#5013-ish]: Make a certain tooltip more precise.
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15:15<SummerBul>so GS is squirrel too?
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15:16<frosch123>yes, the api is also mostly the same
15:17<SummerBul>many thanks
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17:42<Leftie>Howdy. Looking for a quick bit of help. Having trouble getting OpenTTD 1.2.0 b3 to enter fullscreen mode, using a laptop.
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>trouble finding the alt+enter key?
17:43<Leftie>No. it fails, hence the help :p
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of fail?
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>NEVER make .jpg screenshots, make .png
17:45<Leftie>I think I know whats bestl
17:46<__ln__>obviously you don't.
17:46<Leftie>It's a simple red box, the contents are easily readable. a GIF would have sufficed.
17:46<Leftie>I only use PNG when quality is an actual issue.
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17:46<__ln__>we may choose not to even look at jpg screenshots.
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>use JPG only ever for photos. whenever you have computer-generated content, use png
17:46<Leftie>then that isn't my issue.
17:47<__ln__>Leftie: so you don't actually want any help, it seems.
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>JPG is by design absolutely incapable of drawing a straight line
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17:47<Leftie>No, I just fail to see the relevancy of this discussion. I can read the image fine, and I have severely limited eye sight.
17:48<Leftie>If it was a screenshot depicting an issue in a full sized screenshot in game, then PNG would be more accurate, but for a massive red box with clear text, jpg is easy seeable and saves space on the server.
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>Leftie: so when it's foggy, do you say "i don't need my lights on, i can see perfectly fine"?
17:48<Leftie>Does anyone know the issue, or can assist. Y/N.
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>Leftie: openttd PNG screenshots are typically smaller than JPG
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>the "it saves space" is a lie
17:49<Leftie>Quite frankly, i don't take take screenshots in OTTD.
17:49<Leftie>That image was done using prt scr and ms paint.
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>Leftie: anyway, tried setting a proper resolution?
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>from the dropdown menu
17:50<@Terkhen>Leftie: the PNG screenshots created by OpenTTD contain additional info that can be useful in checking possible problems
17:50<Leftie>I've tried using all options the menu allows me to use.
17:50<@Terkhen>probably not the case with this problem, though
17:50<Leftie>From the Laptops native, right down to 600 by 4**
17:50<Leftie>* = forgot it
17:50<Leftie>640 / 480, sorry
17:51<Leftie>Every res gives the same error, or rather, alt+enter just flickers a bit, and pushing full screen on settings produces that error.
17:54<@Terkhen>I would try to update the video card drivers, but I have no idea of what might be causing that
17:55<@Terkhen>you should also check known-bugs.txt, IIRC there are a few issues with fullscreen depending on your OS
17:55<+michi_cc>Leftie: Likely your laptop graphics hardware is not capable of 8bpp graphic modes. Open your openttd.cfg in a text editor and change the blitter line to read "blitter = 32bpp-anim".
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17:56<+michi_cc>Hmm, 'blitter = "32bpp-anim"' (i.e. "s around the 32bpp-anim) actually, I think.
17:56<Leftie>Terkhen: ah. well its a fairly old laptop, Acer Aspire. might be the card.
17:58<Leftie>and michi_cc: didn't seem to work, ah well. It's not too important, i just tend to prefer playing games full screen.
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18:12<Eddi|zuHause>why are there some glyphs in mono.png that extend over the sprite border?
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18:32<@Terkhen>good night
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18:43<Eddi|zuHause>how do you draw an 8 with 4x3 pixels?
18:47<andythenorth>you don't
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18:47<__ln__>as '10o'
18:48<__ln__>or '010'
18:50<supermop>a solid rectangle?
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18:52<Ammler>1px more filled as 0
18:55<Eddi|zuHause> <-- suggestions?
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19:06<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: pretty nice
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19:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r23869 /trunk/src/lang/french.txt: -Fix (r23865): WT3 validation failure
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21:05<Rhamphoryncus>A thought: I'm using tropical refurbishment and aviators with most of the settings turned up to hard, and 50 years in money is NOT unlimited. Upgrading 20 planes at 5.5 million each, that'll take way more than I have. Plowing the ocean is extremely expensive too. It's everything else that fails to keep up. Moving dirt is fine, bridges are practically free, laying track is practically free
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21:07<Rhamphoryncus>Bridges are so annoyingly cheap that you only ever build 1. Well, I have a newgrf to make the suspension bridges better, so I use one of them too (but it's still essentially free)
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21:07<Eddi|zuHause>i agree, bridges are way too cheap
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21:07<Rhamphoryncus>too cheap and virtually the same prices
21:08<Rhamphoryncus>They should be spread out a great deal so you only buy what you need
21:09<Rhamphoryncus>I have other thoughts along the same vein, but I'm going to shut up before I start coding a massive newgrf :P
21:11<Eddi|zuHause>well, changing bridge costs would be a relatively small newgrf :)
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>you can even start by editing an existing newgrf, like TBRS
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21:23<Rhamphoryncus>yeah, but I want to overhaul all the track types too, including monorail and maglev *g*
21:27<Eddi|zuHause>you can work on NuTracks as well
21:27<Eddi|zuHause>and there are other track sets out there
21:31<Asteconn>I do like NuTracks
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---Logclosed Sun Jan 29 00:00:55 2012