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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-01-30

---Logopened Mon Jan 30 00:00:00 2012
---Daychanged Mon Jan 30 2012
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02:50*andythenorth was thinking
02:50<andythenorth>a python module that parses nml item blocks into first class objects
02:50<andythenorth>thereby exposing them for templating engines
02:51<andythenorth>the item block looks like a dict anyway....someone stupid like me might just call eval() on it and see what happens :o
02:53<Rhamphoryncus>heya andy
02:54<Rhamphoryncus>if they're that close would json work? Much better than eval
02:55<andythenorth>load them as json?
02:55*andythenorth is fishing
02:56<andythenorth>I've solved it for my set
02:56<andythenorth>just wondering if there's a way to do it with fewer intermediate steps
02:56<andythenorth>and in a way that's easy for other people to pickup and use
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03:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if you want an nml parser, nmlc has one of those
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03:11<whsck>Hello could anyone help with an error?
03:11<@planetmaker>@topic get -3
03:11<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
03:12<whsck>"Network Synchronization Failed" - Multiplayer Game, with 4 friends over Lan(hamachi) - Everyone else is fine, however around 1960 I always get that message
03:13<whsck>Then every log in, disconects me straight away, works fine in single player
03:13<whsck>with the save file
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03:16<Eddi|zuHause>then pause the server in that state. the devs probably need "live" access to such a game
03:16<Eddi|zuHause>and also tell us the version you're playing
03:17<whsck>OpenTTD 1.2.0-beta3
03:18<Eddi|zuHause>and if possible, keep around autosaves from before this happened
03:18<whsck>Yeah the host has some
03:19<Eddi|zuHause>for starters, make a report at
03:19<Eddi|zuHause>with as much detail as you can get
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03:22<@planetmaker>yes, please, what eddi says
03:23<@planetmaker>especially we need a savegame
03:24<whsck>Ok I will add it,
03:25<@planetmaker>we need a way to actually trigger the same desync. That probably will prove difficult... does it trigger on any specific action or upon join?
03:26<whsck>Well its fine for about 10years and the other players are fine, Nothing triggers it from what I can see, everytime its happend i've been doing somthing different, after that I try rejoin and it d/c's me straight away with Network Synch Failed
03:26<whsck>I am not the host
03:26<@planetmaker>did you build something the others did not build?
03:27<whsck>Everything i've built everyone has
03:27<@planetmaker>buy a company?
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03:28<@planetmaker>right... there's something the host could do, but it requires possibly lots of harddisk space
03:28<@planetmaker>he could turn on desync debugging
03:28<@planetmaker>rcon debuglevel desync=3
03:28<@planetmaker>in the console
03:28<@planetmaker>if it's a non-dedicated server he might not even need the 'rcon' part
03:29<whsck>What shall I do once thats happend?
03:29<@planetmaker>and then save the game under a easy-to-remember name and load that savegame again
03:29<@planetmaker>and then continue playing as normal
03:29<@planetmaker>all of you
03:29<@planetmaker>and then make a savegame again when a desync triggers
03:30<@planetmaker>and then the host has to provide us with at least: the initial savegame, the last savegame and the command.log which is found in the autosave folder
03:30<whsck>Shall i do this before making the report then?
03:30<@planetmaker>do both, please
03:31<whsck>Shall I make the report now or wait to add the Desync debugging
03:31<whsck>Because hes afk :p
03:31<@planetmaker>if you trigger then the desync again, you can add that info the the report you make now
03:31<@planetmaker>or he can
03:32<whsck>Okay thank you, will create the report later with all the information when hes back
03:34<@planetmaker>well, as said: there's no harm to create the report now, with a current savegame and amend the missing info later
03:34<whsck>I mean I have the latest save file of the game but it wont trigger the desycnh on single player, only multiplayer
03:34<@planetmaker>though the method I described often is the only way to really get hold of a desync
03:35<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: nmlc parser :) good point
03:35<@planetmaker>a desync cannot trigger in singleplayer
03:35<@planetmaker>it's a multiplayer-only bug ;-)
03:35<whsck>oh yeah obviously, dumb me
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03:35<@planetmaker>which means that server and client have different ideas of what the game state looks like...
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03:36<whsck>obviously, silly me!
03:36<@planetmaker>which means that server and client have different ideas of what the game state looks like...
03:36*andythenorth explores in nml module-land
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03:38<andythenorth>probably...nmlc could be used to instantiate python objects for each item, which are then passed to [templating engine of choice]
03:39<andythenorth>meaning that all the properties for a vehicle, house etc are simply defined in nml, no extra boilerplate needed
03:39<andythenorth>the templating engine would fill in the switch chains for each item
03:39<andythenorth>...but I'm not rebuilding BANDIT to v6 to test that :P
03:40<whsck>Could my issues be because they're on windows 7 and im on XP?
03:42<andythenorth>we could give each item block an additional dict 'extended_properties' or 'arbitrary_properties' or such, these are constants used only during build
03:42*Rhamphoryncus wants a singleplayer desync, just for the wtf value ;)
03:42<andythenorth>nml+ :P
03:43<Rhamphoryncus>whsck: I wouldn't expect though, especially if you haven't compiled openttd yourself
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04:04<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: this scopes identifiers to the current vehicle:
04:04<andythenorth>switch (FEAT_ROADVEHS, SELF, ${}_cargo_switch, cargo_classes) {
04:05<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that doesn't really offer an improvement over what i have now
04:05<andythenorth>you want nml to handle the local scope for you?
04:09<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: if that is your goal(?), the only thing I can think of is that switch identifiers are local to the item by default, and you have to call a global namespace for those that aren't
04:09<Eddi|zuHause>switches aren't part of items
04:10<andythenorth>so it would be a headache :)
04:10<andythenorth>you'd have to add delimiters or set scopes or something
04:11<andythenorth>I can't think of anything except concatenation of (item_identifier + foo_string) - by python, cpp variadic macro, carrier pigeon etc.
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04:23<@peter1138>herp and derp
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04:51<andythenorth>"Eddi|zuHause: switches aren't part of items" <- actually, you know the call chain though?
04:52<andythenorth>switch has an item as caller
04:52<Eddi|zuHause>no, you only know the call chain _after_ you resolved the identifiers
04:52<Eddi|zuHause>that's what they're there for
04:52<Eddi|zuHause>they have no other purpose
04:52*andythenorth made a silly mistake there :)
04:53<andythenorth>file under 'chicken and egg'
04:53*andythenorth thinks of something evil
04:53<andythenorth>but no
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05:03<xiong>Elu, Mm-m, I'm starting to think it's not as clear-cut as we discussed yesterday. The more capacity on a line, the more cargo that cargodist will assign to it. If player over-serves an unprofitable line; then that may steal cargo from the more profitable, less serviced run.
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05:16<Elukka>i haven't noticed that
05:17<Elukka>just thousands and thousands of passengers waiting for the insufficiently serviced route
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06:09<danielon>hay algun español??
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06:15<__ln__>muchas millones de gente, especialmente en españa.
06:15<__ln__>pero no yo.
06:15<danielon>pero hablas español
06:15<Eddi|zuHause>actually, spanish is like the third most spoken language on the planet
06:16<andythenorth>~even chance it will be the most widely spoken language in the USA
06:16<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: very true, but i assumed español meant nationality rather than language here.
06:17<Elukka>just a little bit unlikely, andy
06:17<__ln__>Elukka: why's that? isn't 30 million a good start?
06:17<danielon>I will use the google translator
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: in the south, probably soon. other regions, i don't think so
06:18<Elukka>it's a significant minority language, naturally since there are a lot of spanish speakers on the continent
06:18<Elukka>it's not going to somehow supplant english though
06:18<danielon>I am trying to create a multiplayer game but I can not be published, I mean I can not get out on the page server
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>you have to do port forwarding in your firewall and router
06:20<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
06:20<__ln__>danielon: ¿no te has aprendido inglés en la escuela?
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06:21<danielon>esos puertos ya los he avierto pero no lo logro
06:21*MNIM whacks __ln__ and danielon on the head
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>make sure you open _both_ TCP and UDP
06:21<__ln__>danielon: ¿y otras idiomas extrañeras?
06:21<MNIM>don't make me quote pulp fiction
06:21*andythenorth should find the stats on spanish
06:21<Elukka>why's it matter so much
06:22<andythenorth>it's quite qualified - something like 'spoken, but not the primary language'
06:22*andythenorth -> work
06:23<Elukka>kinda like swedish here in finland but that gets official language status for some reason :P
06:24<andythenorth>it's far from ~50% - more like 14% or so
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>germany has a few official minority languages
06:25<__ln__>andythenorth: how rapidly does it increase?
06:25<andythenorth>ask wikipedia
06:25<__ln__>@seen wikipedia
06:25<@DorpsGek>__ln__: I have not seen wikipedia.
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>"In Deutschland fallen Nordfriesisch, Saterfriesisch, Dänisch, Sorbisch und Romani unter die Definition einer Minderheitensprache."
06:27<Elukka>it would not reach 50% if the entirety of mexico decided to emigrate, if that's what you're wondering :P
06:28<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: but the spanish speaking population in the USA also has the highest birth rate, not just immigration rate
06:28<Elukka>still zero chance of it becoming a majority language
06:31<Eddi|zuHause>so... why does my kopete not connect for two days?
06:32<__ln__>Elukka: 5% is enough to have all official documents to be issued in two languages, requiring all people to learn the other language, etc.
06:33<Elukka>pretty sure they don't currently issue all documents in spanish and have mandatory spanish at school for everyone, though?
06:33<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: in the USA that is managed on state level.
06:33<Noldo>do you live there Elukka?
06:34<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: so states with a significant minority of spanish speaking people do have spanish as official language
06:34<Elukka>no, noldo
06:34<Elukka>eddi, didn't think of that
06:34<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: the USA as a whole don't have an official language at all
06:34<Elukka>makes sense i guess
06:35<Eddi|zuHause>english is a de-facto official language on federal level, but there's no law defining it
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06:44<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I may still be making silly mistakes - but namespaces? Forget concatenating the identifiers, just write them out (each must be unique within the project), but scope them to the calling item?
06:44*andythenorth -> back to work
06:45<Eddi|zuHause>i don't get what you mean
06:45<andythenorth>nvm, I'm probably smoking crack
06:46<andythenorth>it's not even a problem I need to sold, and I'm not good at comp sci :P
06:46<andythenorth>sold / solve /s
06:51*andythenorth should read nml src instead of guessing
06:52<Elukka>so many eagles
06:52<Elukka>so many jpg artifacts
06:53*andythenorth is presuming that a mapping could be constructed of {item: (switch_identifiers_called_by_item)}
06:53<Elukka>and now i have to download space engine from a glacially slow russian server...
06:56<Elukka>everything is going to be a painful mess of broken links if this keeps going
06:57<Noldo>space engine?
06:58<andythenorth>with a mapping, the identifiers could be rewritten relatively trivially
06:58<andythenorth>but this is all guesswork
07:00<Elukka>procedurally generated universe pretties
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07:17<@peter1138>new landscape generator!
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07:39<andythenorth>multi-stop docks!
07:40*andythenorth has been too busy writing actual code to make tiresome feature requests :P
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>for various definitions of "actual" and "code" :p
07:43*andythenorth struggles for comeback to that
07:44<andythenorth>I haz commits
07:51*peter1138 commits andythenorth
07:56<Rhamphoryncus>Hrm, expanding to a double mainline worked a little too well. Now all my stations are bogged down with extra trains that used to be bogged down on the mainline.
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08:18<Arafangion>Are they in-out stations?
08:24<Elukka>oh jesus christ
08:24<Elukka>space engine looks amazing
08:24<Elukka>i urge everyone to try
08:28<__ln__>not very photorealistic
08:29<Elukka>a sun is rising from behind another sun
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08:33<Rhamphoryncus>Arafangion: roros, 8 or 12 wide
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08:33*andythenorth conflict errors
08:34<andythenorth>revert andythenorth
08:34<Rhamphoryncus>and now I'm switching a bunch of my path signals to 1-way because one confused little train managed to choose a path backwards, halfway across the map (no exaggeration), across both sides of my double mainline
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09:02<@planetmaker><Elukka> a sun is rising from behind another sun <--- there are confirmed planets out there which orbit a multiple star system
09:02<Elukka>i've never seen a space thing as pretty as this program
09:02<Elukka>random desert planet with thick cloud cover
09:02<Elukka>there are dry riverbeds on the surface
09:03<@planetmaker>they call it an image of Mars
09:04<@planetmaker>the image you linked could be of Mars
09:04<Elukka>it's procedurally generated
09:06<Elukka>i think it has about the real universe's worth of content :P
09:07<Elukka>it's got a moon too:
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09:27<@peter1138> o_O
09:28<V453000>:D that is awesome
09:30<@blathijs>wth, looks terrible to script ;_)
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13:22<supermop>hi terkhen
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13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r23872 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 1 changes by chenwt0315
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 23 changes by OliTTD
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by planetmaker
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 12 changes by IPG
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14:19<Wolf01>hello andythenorth
14:19<andythenorth>Yexo: did you have any design for file inclusion in nml? Or just an idea that it might be useful?
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14:20<@Yexo>nothing yet except the idea
14:21<andythenorth>the common case I see for it is including switch chains - sound right?
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14:42<supermop>sorry i keep interjecting with these totally random ideas,
14:42<supermop>but does fuel have any ingame effect other than picture next to the buy-list sprite?
14:43<supermop>like, is there any difference between steam and diesel other than smoke animation?
14:46<frosch123>steam/diesel has no effect by itself
14:46<frosch123>but usually sets will offer different running cost, power and te
14:51<supermop>but there is no way for a set to say 'this vehicle has property coal' and then provide a separate curve for running cost to grow over time vis-a-vis 'oil' or 'diesel'
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15:07<andythenorth>supermop: that's the domain of the newgrf
15:07<andythenorth>pikka does it in NARS 2
15:08<andythenorth>I might do it in FISH, but only if I can be arsed
15:09<supermop>but it is possible for those who can be bothered coding it
15:12<@SmatZ> ... how can a 23 years old girl look like that?
15:13<@SmatZ>I mean, why would anyone give such a photo on a dating site...
15:13<andythenorth>supermop: yes it's possible
15:14<andythenorth>Yexo: file inclusion could use a notation something like: include({base : foo_vehicle}, "sprites/nml/some_file.nml")
15:14<andythenorth>'base' could then be used to concatenate with any identifier using a control character, maybe $ or such
15:15<andythenorth>switch chain identifiers are then sorted
15:16<andythenorth>without the headache of a full templating / macro language
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15:57<@planetmaker>SmatZ, dear SmatZ, should you visit dating sites?
15:58<V453000>this is basically just another facebook
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15:59<V453000>or something similar
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16:07<frosch123>there are dating sites with public pictures?
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16:24<@SmatZ>good evening all :)
16:24<@SmatZ>also, good night
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17:16<@Yexo>andythenorth: a much simpler solution would be to make identifiers file-local (at least optionally)
17:16<@Yexo>for example if you do switch (..., $my_switch) you can use $my_switch everywhere in the same file, but in other files it'd be invalid (unless you also specified $my_switch there too)
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17:24<andythenorth>Yexo: if I understand that correctly, it's pretty neat
17:25<andythenorth>this is within the same nml file?
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17:26<@Yexo>what I basically meant was: let nml replace $ (or another sign) by the filename if it's used as prefix for an identifier
17:26<@Yexo>$my_switch would become spritesnmlsome_filemy_switch, or sprites_nml_some_fille_my_switch or something like that
17:27<@Yexo>or more likely some internal name that will never clash with user defined names
17:29<andythenorth>definitely improves on the current situation
17:29<Arafangion>Ie, a poor man's namespace.
17:29<@Yexo>Arafangion: yes
17:29<andythenorth>what about when an nml file is assembled by cpp?
17:29<andythenorth>does it fail that case?
17:30<@Yexo>dunno, depends on the implementation
17:30*andythenorth thinks cpp smells wrong for nml, but it's common useage
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>hm... in hg, what's the easiest way to select individual chunks for (not-)commiting?
17:30<Arafangion>You could invent a concept of modules, ala python.
17:30<Arafangion>Everything's global - but only within that one file.
17:31<@Yexo>Arafangion: can't do that, the final result has to be compiled to nfo
17:31<@Yexo>so there are quite a lot of limitations, like everything stored in parameters is always global
17:31<@Yexo>I can't limit that per-file
17:31<andythenorth>Yexo: the thing I really missed initially was repeating varaction2 IDs in templates that are included
17:31<andythenorth>the variadic macros are one solution
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17:32<andythenorth>I've got a solution I like now
17:32<Arafangion>Yexo: Is the limitation making it accessible to C++, or accessible to other nfo's?
17:32<@Yexo>if those repeated varaction2's are always the same you could try including them only once
17:32<andythenorth>they would usually have stuff inserted with cpp constants
17:32<@Yexo>Arafangion: nml is compiled to a grf file, so it's bound by the limitations in the grf spec
17:33<Arafangion>Ah, your hands are tied, then. :)
17:33<andythenorth>tbh, I think it was a pattern for nfo + cpp
17:33*Arafangion heads off to work, to find another place where he can pretend to be an expert.
17:34*Rubidium heads off to some other kind of "work" ;)
17:34<@Yexo>gn Rubidium
17:34*Yexo follows suit
17:34*andythenorth stops work
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>simply "repeating" varaction2-chains for each "item-template" may quickly run into the next limitation, so it may not be of much use
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>for example i currently need 3 separate action2-chains per vehicle
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>one for displaying the vehicle as itself
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>one for displaying the vehicle as a slice of the adjacent vehicle (same structure, but using var61/62)
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>and one for purchase list (avoiding some variables)
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>the generator that makes this duplication is currently one of the least elegant parts of the code
17:40<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: which file?
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17:41<Eddi|zuHause>night to all blitzquitters.
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17:43*andythenorth adventures in CETS code
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>the code i spoke about is in
17:43<andythenorth>how intriguing
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>if you find a point that should be better documented, please tell
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17:44*andythenorth has some reading to do :P
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>that file could probably use some splitting
17:45<andythenorth>any particular lines in this code to look at?
17:45<andythenorth>I have to see if your problem is template shaped. Otherwise you'll shout at me when I recommend one :P
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. separating the "conversion" functions
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: since it's a tree, it's likely not solvable with templates
17:47*andythenorth is busy being impressed by it
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the input is a string of nested expressions of the form "condition:(value1:expression1,value2:expression2),..."
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>where the leafs reference actual image files
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>by some naming convention
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>conditon can be "date" (aka date of last service), "epochN" (referencing the parameter setting) and some select others which i forgot
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>and "value" can be a single number, a range in the form of "a..b" or in the form of ">a" (and other comparison operators)
17:51*andythenorth is mentally reconstructing what actually comes out of the file.write lines
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>each node generates one switch
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>or three, in the case of "epochN"
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>"prefix" and "postfix" are some magical values that get passed through to make the identifiers unique
17:53<andythenorth>ah hah
17:54<andythenorth>so the number of switches needed is deterministic, but variable according to conditions?
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>prefix is something like "gfx_switch" or "purchase_switch"
17:54<andythenorth>and the postfix is a number?
17:54<andythenorth>at a guess...
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>postfix is something that is appended on each tree level
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>so the first level enumerates the children as _0 to _n
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>and the second level makes _0_0 to _0_k and _1_0 to _1_l etc
17:56<andythenorth>how interesting
17:56<andythenorth>here is my template code for repeating truck trailers:
17:56<andythenorth>this relies an a python object being in scope with various attributes defined
17:57<andythenorth><tal:foo stuff> is just a naming convention in the templater
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>input strings are something like: "date:(default:pruss,1927..1941:DRG,1942..1949:pruss,>1949:epoch3:(DB:DB,DR:DR,default:DB))"
17:58<andythenorth>I've got the same prefix / postfix pattern as you :P
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause>so this creates a switch for the date, with 4 children
17:59<andythenorth>and you pass those to translate_date_short etc?
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>and the 4th child creates another switch which checks the epoch3 parameter
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>well, first this is shoved through
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>to create the tree objects
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>which is your usual ply stuff
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>pretty simple if you ever have attended a computer science lecture on compiler construction :)
18:01*andythenorth hasn't :)
18:01*andythenorth got failed for the pascal course in 1st year engineering
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>the "translate" functions are called for the "value" parts of the string
18:02*andythenorth then quit engineering
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. it translates ">1949" into something that the nml-parser would understand
18:02<andythenorth>so how many types of switch get generated by this?
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>in this case something like "date(1,1,1949),1,5000000)"
18:03<andythenorth>I mean significantly different, not trivially different
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>typically the "translate function" and the checked variable/expression are exchanged
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>possibly the reference (SAME/PARENT)
18:04<@Terkhen>good night
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>and occasionally a random_switch is generated
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>this is handled by calling the constructor for Switch, ParentSwitch or RandomSwitch
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18:07<andythenorth>CETS won't build
18:07<andythenorth>how dull - I wanted to see the processed nml
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>you need ply, we discussed that the last time
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18:08<andythenorth>no I have ply
18:08<andythenorth>maybe I miss something else
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18:14<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: dunno what that error means, never seen that before
18:15<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: what's your python version?
18:16<andythenorth>seems to be ply
18:16<andythenorth>"The p_error(p) rule is defined to catch syntax errors. See the error handling section below for more detail."
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18:16<Eddi|zuHause>that one's irrelavnt
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>can you do the following
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>"python -i scripts/"
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>"import pdb"
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>"p key"
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>"p tables.table[key]"
18:18<andythenorth>I can paste...
18:19<andythenorth>nice number:
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>you skipped one :)
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18:20*andythenorth is looking for a missing ''
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see anything that could be wrong there
18:21<andythenorth>me neither
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18:25<Eddi|zuHause>not entirely sure where the "":"" comes from, though
18:25<andythenorth>I've not seen these structures before
18:26<andythenorth>it's like a dict with prefixes on the keys?
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>u means unicode
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18:27<Eddi|zuHause>there's also r ("raw", don't process escapes)
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18:29<Eddi|zuHause>it's easier to just write u"ö" instead of doing all kinds of conversion stuff
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>"ö" varies depending on locale/encoding, while u"ö" always results in the same string, no matter what your encoding is
18:32<Rhamphoryncus>"ö" is actually sort of a bug. It should never have been allowed by the language
18:32<andythenorth>yup, the python cms I use, we often encode in unicode, otherwise sadness occurs
18:34<Rhamphoryncus>It's a good idea to explicitly mark each file as utf-8 too
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>well, python rejects the file if no encoding is stated
18:35<Rhamphoryncus>hrm. Next time I'll spend more than 30 seconds checking my facts. ;)
18:35<Rhamphoryncus>(No I won't.)
18:36<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: if I remove the value {...} from that structure, I don't get a syntax error from it
18:36<andythenorth>but I don't know if that's the issue
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: can you check, in change the "value" into u"value"?
18:38<andythenorth>also the first key is an empty string, is that allowed?
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>"it never complained before"
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>some keys are not identifier-able, that never stopped it before either
18:39<andythenorth>my python is 2.6
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>"values" is actually a self-reference
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>it's kind of important that it is
18:42<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I need to go to sleep :)
18:42<andythenorth>maybe this is only an issue for me?
18:43<andythenorth>devzone builds cets ok?
18:43<Rhamphoryncus>Got a link so I can look at it?
18:43<Rhamphoryncus>or pastebin
18:44<andythenorth>Rhamphoryncus: my python doesn't like the dict here:
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18:45<andythenorth>o/ Snail_
18:45<Snail_>hey there
18:46<andythenorth>Rhamphoryncus: specifically my python is unhappy with 'values' : {....}
18:46<Rhamphoryncus>You're extracting it in to keyword arguments?
18:48<Rhamphoryncus>And you already have a keyword argument named values
18:48<andythenorth>looks like it: process(key, **tables.table[key])
18:48<Mazur>Maybe you should feed i eggs or mice, instead.
18:48<Mazur>s/ i / it /
18:48<Rhamphoryncus>solution: don't pass the dict as keyword arguments when it's arbitrary like that
18:48<Rhamphoryncus>So remove the ** on the call and in the functions
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18:49*Rhamphoryncus mentions that 30 seconds thing again ;)
18:50*andythenorth -> bed
18:50<andythenorth>good night
18:50<Rhamphoryncus>I wouldn't use unicode for a variable name, not in 2.x
18:51<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: if it's bugging me enough tomorrow, I might install python 2.7 and see what happens
18:51<andythenorth>if I can be bothered to revisit the fun of having multiple python versions :o
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18:52<Rhamphoryncus>I used to have tons, but ubuntu removed the really old ones on me. Something about no longer patching security flaws ;)
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19:21<Sputnik>Hi guys
19:21<Sputnik>Is anyone here?
19:24<Rhamphoryncus>Just us figments of your imagination
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19:41*Mazur is over there, in a box.
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19:47*Rhamphoryncus attempts to decipher the infamous presignal >.>
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19:52<whsck>Currently trying to fix a Desync issue and the host used '-ddesync=3',however when I desync no error message is being displayed, whats up with that!? - Shall I still give the save files asked by someone in my bug report?
19:52<Rhamphoryncus>Someone needs to make a priority merge example savegame, then include it with openttd. That way we're not stuck on pictures of incomplete examples
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20:17<Rhamphoryncus>It seems as if the pathing signals, rather than going when it can get to the next signal, only go when the signal after that is free
20:20<Rhamphoryncus>Or they wait for the signal right ahead of them to be free, only to take that chance to switch to the other track
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20:44<whsck>Did anyone see my question from earlier? I d/c'd from chat
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20:51<Rhamphoryncus>OMG, I actually got combo signals to work :P
20:51<Rhamphoryncus>whsck: I did see it
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20:53<Rhamphoryncus>Took a total of 9 signals to let two tracks swap without blocking either
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21:30<__ln__>heureka, 1+1*2 = 3, not 2
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21:53*Rhamphoryncus discovers there's a car replacement screen too, not just engine replacement >.>
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23:55<Sputnik>hi everyone
---Logclosed Tue Jan 31 00:01:00 2012