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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-02-21

---Logopened Tue Feb 21 00:00:01 2012
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00:52<LemLap>I know this has probably been asked a million times, and not sure if you can answer, but where can I get a graphics set?
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00:58<@Rubidium>LemLap: try reading section 4.1 of the readme
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00:59<LemLap>I know this has probably been asked a million times, and not sure if you can answer, but where can I get a graphics set?
01:00<@Rubidium>LemLap: try reading section 4.1 of the readme
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02:20<Yexo><dihedral> [22:54:12] ... Yexo this is getting scary <- what is?
02:21<Yexo>oh, nvm :)
02:21<Yexo>yes, indeed
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05:36<lugo>re
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05:42<andythenorth>mornings
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06:01<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: are there CETS wagons with + without brake cabs?
06:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes
06:01*andythenorth hmms
06:01<Eddi|zuHause>early wagons should probably have 50/50 chance of having a brake cab
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>later wagons shouldn't have any at all
06:02<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: are there CETS wagons that need multiple options for cargo sprites?
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>open wagon should have lots of cargo sprites
06:02<andythenorth>are brake cabs completely standard across wagon types?
06:03<Eddi|zuHause>probably not
06:03<andythenorth>hmm
06:04<andythenorth>are the bodies of wagons with brake cabs shorter than those without?
06:04<Eddi|zuHause>the brake cabs make the wagon longer, but not in a way that can properly be represented in OpenTTD
06:05<andythenorth>I'm wondering if they can be composited....
06:05<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.hs-merseburg.de/~nosske/EpocheII/fg/e2f_gwwv.html <-- basic overview over the freight wagons
06:05<andythenorth>tonight I'll try and add compositing to the BANDIT pixel code
06:06<MNIM>Hey guys, I'me being peeved at TTRS right now. is there any way to make it play nice with recent versions OTTD by any chance?
06:06<andythenorth>MNIM: patch it
06:06<MNIM>a newgrf?
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: basically there's "high" brakers cabs like here: http://www.hs-merseburg.de/~nosske/EpocheII/fg/e2f_g122.gif and "low" brakers cabs like here: http://www.hs-merseburg.de/~nosske/EpocheII/fg/e2f_g101.gif
06:07<andythenorth>do you think you could persuade your artists to draw 1px hotspots on a base wagon?
06:08<Eddi|zuHause>you mean like autogenerate the basic shape, and let the artists do manual touchups?
06:08<andythenorth>I mean like draw the basic shape by hand, then composite the variations
06:08<andythenorth>;)
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>ah, yes. i think that can be managed :)
06:09<andythenorth>I'll prove the concept works later
06:09<andythenorth>to make this work, reserved colour ranges are needed
06:10<andythenorth>but that's fine for most sets
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>why?
06:11<andythenorth>the compositor finds a pixel of colour n, then draws more pixels at that location
06:11<andythenorth>there are other approaches that could work as well
06:11<andythenorth>right now 'the compositor' doesn't exist at all :)
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>just go linearly from top to bottom and make sure you never draw over a pixel you're gonna read again, or never read a pixel that you've already drawn over
06:12<andythenorth>yup
06:12<andythenorth>that's how it scans
06:12<andythenorth>actually, no, it doesn't check for pixels drawn over already
06:12<andythenorth>it currently relies on being able to overdraw
06:13<andythenorth>anyway, this won't make any sense without examples or code
06:13<andythenorth>so I'll do that later
06:13<andythenorth>dumping my brain into irc is proven not good for explaining to others :P
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06:25<appe>:D
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09:26<@Belugas>hello
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09:38<dihedral>\o/
09:38<dihedral>hd projector is to be delivered tomorrow :-)
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09:53<appe>:o
09:53<appe>i gave mine away
09:57<dihedral>i ordered eh-tw3200
09:58<dihedral>it has lens-shift :-)
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11:03<@peter1138>dihedral, does it have 32bpp-ez?
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11:53*rdstm says HI
11:54*planetmaker says 'ho'
11:56<rdstm>what-s up around here ?
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11:58<@planetmaker>lol
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12:20<supermop>hi planetmaker
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12:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23973 /trunk/src/saveload/ (saveload.cpp vehicle_sl.cpp): -Fix (r23947): Also save the maximum travel speed for the current vehicle order.
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12:28<@planetmaker>hi supermop
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12:29<supermop>do you do much photography? i was under the impression you did...
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12:30<@planetmaker>much... is a relative term. I enjoy it, yes
12:30<@planetmaker>But it's not like I find that much time for it like I'd like. Thus not every day. Not even every week
12:31<supermop>ah ok
12:31<@planetmaker>why do you ask?
12:31<supermop>i am looking to buy a tilt shift lens
12:31<@planetmaker>aye. Unfortunately I don't have any :-)
12:32<supermop>but even used they are around 1200
12:32<supermop>usd
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12:32<supermop>so i am not sure what features i should be looking for
12:32<@planetmaker>well. They *are* quite special
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12:34<supermop>actually i have to run meet my friend for lunch in union square and take some fisheye pictures there
12:34<supermop>ill be back in a bit
12:37<@planetmaker>:-)
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13:07<@Terkhen>hello
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r23974 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt greek.txt serbian.txt unfinished/urdu.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by OliTTD
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: greek - 18 changes by geraki
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: serbian - 15 changes by etran
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: urdu - 31 changes by haider
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13:52<andythenorth_>Ho
13:52<andythenorth_>Irc on a phone
13:52<andythenorth_>How novel :o
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13:53<@Alberth>way to complicated to type messages :)
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13:54<@Alberth>one super mop coming through :)
13:55<@Alberth>hmm, reading the forum all day implies you don't have anything left to read in the evening :(
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14:06<supermop>helllo
14:09<__ln__>abend, supermop
14:11<supermop>guten abend fur dich auch
14:14*andythenorth ponders
14:14<andythenorth>what to procedurally draw next :P
14:14<andythenorth>finish tanker trailers? or try a new problem to stress the code a little?
14:15<supermop>trees?
14:15<@Alberth>toyland industries?
14:15<andythenorth>both nice suggestions
14:15<supermop>newobjects?
14:15*andythenorth is sticking to knitting of 'trucks' though
14:15<@Alberth>c++ source code?
14:15<andythenorth>trees are valid, but...kind of solved no?
14:15<andythenorth>the trees we have look nice
14:16*Alberth agrees
14:16<@Alberth>although I don't know the name of that newgrf :p
14:19<andythenorth>Alberth: I'm going to next figure out how to make composite from existing sprites
14:19<andythenorth>rather than draw new sequences from iterables
14:19<andythenorth>after that...the next step might be to repackage this stuff in a clean way for reuse in other sets
14:19<@Alberth>that would be a major step forwards
14:20<andythenorth>not really sure how to do that
14:20<andythenorth>I have ideas....but assistance would be welcome ;)
14:20<@Alberth>repackaging could be done today already, I think
14:20<andythenorth>probably
14:21<andythenorth>I have plenty of ideas for refactoring how the generator works
14:21<andythenorth>having tested multiple cases with it
14:21<andythenorth>I think a new spec might be wise
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14:22<@Alberth>ok, I need to get some tea thus :)
14:25<andythenorth>I need to make dinner, and keep this baby sleeping ;)
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14:34<@Alberth>stir slowly, and type softly :)
14:35<@Alberth>'quietly' would be a better description :p
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14:47<andythenorth>anybody think 'pixa' is a stupid name for a package?
14:48<andythenorth>before I make a project for it...
14:49<SpComb>cute name are very important
15:04<andythenorth>Alberth: I've more to add - this format work for you? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/31
15:04<andythenorth>I could organise the spec more like interfaces with doc strings, but that might codify bad assumptions...
15:11<@Alberth>I am pretty busy atm, sorry. I looks very brief at first sight
15:12<@Alberth>but I am sure we can get to a mutual understanding of the details
15:12<andythenorth>I'm going to extend it quite a bit.
15:12<@Alberth>indeed it may be best to be skimpy on the details so I can make my own bad assumptions, then verify them against you :)
15:13<andythenorth>I want to avoid trying to specify implementation too tightly
15:13<andythenorth>as I'm not best judge of that :)
15:13<@Alberth>sounds like a good plan
15:14<@Alberth>I'll ask about anything I don't understand :)
15:16<andythenorth>k
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15:37<supermop>the light wasnt very good at lunch afterall
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15:51<frosch123>damn... klackons, silicoids and psilons...
15:51<frosch123>is there a worst setup of opponents?
15:52<@Alberth>you're playing against very weirdly named opponents :)
15:53<frosch123>maybe there is a chance that they kill each other without noticing me
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15:55<Eddi|zuHause>i can't have that situation, as i'm usually klackons :)
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>psilons are cool for spying
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>silicoids are just annoying
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15:56<frosch123>hmm, yeah, maybe silicoids & psilons & darloks would be worse :p
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15:57<Eddi|zuHause>darloks are evil, yes :p
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>my klackons occasionally are actually borg...
16:00<andythenorth>there's some other game in the world? :o
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>cybernetic and telepathic
16:00*andythenorth has heard of games other than TTD
16:00<frosch123>i am currently playing cybernetic+telepathic
16:00<frosch123>but as elerian
16:01<frosch123>andythenorth: who said it's a game? :p
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>also unification and +1 production
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>typically -1/2 food
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>and -10 ground combat
16:02<frosch123>-10 ground combat is obvious with telepathic :p
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>and some other things that vary
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>indeed
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16:14<Eddi|zuHause>-1/2 food doesn't hurt that much with cybernetic, and uncreative doesn't hurt that much if you intend on spying the crap out of everybody :p
16:16<andythenorth>Alberth: spec ;) http://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/31
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>with unification you have +50% food anyway
16:16<andythenorth>Alberth: I added you to the project, feel free to make edits or notes
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16:24<frosch123>oh, i confused klackons and silicoids, and attacked the wrong one :p
16:24<@Alberth>oh noes, another project that I work in :p
16:30<@Alberth>andythenorth: quite tired now, will look at it tomorrow, hopefully
16:31<andythenorth>Alberth: np :)
16:31<andythenorth>no rush
16:31<andythenorth>I'll keep generating examples and tests
16:31<andythenorth>it...flexes...the code
16:34<frosch123>wow, what a low tech game
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16:45<andythenorth>is it time for bed?
16:45*andythenorth needs the internet for simplest decisions :P
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16:49<frosch123>hmm, i am wondering why this game went far easier than it should have... looks like the klackons had a quite bad start position with a lot of void systems without any planets... but why the heck have psilons not researched rocketbase yet...
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17:00<andythenorth>good night
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17:59<frosch123>night
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18:07<Elukka>hmm.
18:08<@Terkhen>good night
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18:25<pjpe>'Timetabled maximum travel speeds for non-flying vehicles' what is this useful for
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18:31<DabuYu>pjpe: trains, buses?\
18:32<pjpe>yeah but why would you want to limit the speeds
18:32<pjpe>congestion?
18:32<DabuYu>that i don't know :)
18:43<@planetmaker>you have a better flow if all vehicles go the same speed
18:44<@planetmaker>thus you can easily mix normally fast pax trains with slower cargo trains by all trains telling to go the slow cargo train speed
18:44<pjpe>kinda inefficient
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19:03<V453000>actually very efficient :p
19:04<V453000>the fast trains cannot go faster than the slow ones anyway, and if they try to, they will just bump into them and make the line less full than it could be
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19:05<Eddi|zuHause>the capacity of a (timetabled) line is depending on the difference between the fastest and the slowest train on the line, thus by slowing down the fast trains, you increase capacity
19:06<pjpe>i mean if you buy a faster train but then use it at a lower speed
19:06<pjpe>you paid mostly for the capability of a higher speed
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't mean you reduce the speed _all_ the time
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you have one very congested section on the main line, that you can't expand
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>but on the rest of the line you have separated express and cargo trains
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19:09<pjpe>oh it can do that
19:09<pjpe>i thought it was just a speed limit overall
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>that would have been senseless indeed :p
19:11<pjpe>so how do you set the limit
19:11<pjpe>like
19:11<pjpe>for x days you go max this speed?
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>no, from one waypoint/station to the next
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19:12<pjpe>and will the auto timetable thing set it
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think so
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>i think this scenario screwed me out of half the game... it said capture the 5 elemental cities. and then it ends when i capture the most distant city, without owning all the others
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