| --- | Log | opened Wed Feb 29 00:00:25 2012 |
| 00:01 | <xiong> | Mazur, would you be interested in a new FIRS cargo chart? |
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| 02:29 | <andythenorth> | mofing |
| 02:33 | <@peter1138> | how rude |
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| 02:46 | * | andythenorth is matching animals to where they live |
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| 03:23 | * | andythenorth wonders about writing a PIL routine to scale sprites |
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| 03:24 | <andythenorth> | it would need to detect edges |
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| 03:30 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 03:31 | <andythenorth> | the toddler has discovered train-rv crashes in the game |
| 03:31 | <andythenorth> | I need openttd for ipad, or I never get my laptop back :P |
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| 03:34 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 03:34 | <andythenorth> | why do I never use 64 tile trains in my games? |
| 03:38 | <appe> | http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/lastmeal.png |
| 03:39 | <appe> | andythenorth: it sucks. |
| 03:39 | <lugo> | not for toddlers :) |
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| 04:49 | <Pikka> | andythenorth stop stirring at once |
| 04:50 | <andythenorth> | what did I do :) |
| 04:50 | <Pikka> | "You can always fork ;)" |
| 04:50 | <Pikka> | :P |
| 04:50 | <andythenorth> | forking seems to be the order of the day for that project |
| 04:50 | <andythenorth> | day / five years :P |
| 04:51 | <Pikka> | going on for ten, isn't it? |
| 04:51 | <Pikka> | the BR set predates newgrf... D; |
| 04:52 | <andythenorth> | we all know forks are bad ;) |
| 04:52 | <andythenorth> | except if you're a git user, which now seems to include world+dog |
| 04:52 | <Pikka> | you'll never eat your spaghetti with a spoon though |
| 04:52 | <Pikka> | hmm |
| 04:53 | <Pikka> | you should make a grf called SPAGHETTI |
| 04:53 | <andythenorth> | and why not |
| 04:53 | <andythenorth> | someone reverse-acronym it, I'll make it :P |
| 04:53 | * | andythenorth is going to take the toddler on his first train ride now |
| 04:54 | <andythenorth> | toodle, and pip |
| 04:54 | <Pikka> | somewhere exciting I hope |
| 04:54 | <Pikka> | seeya |
| 04:54 | <andythenorth> | exciting...hmmm: Avon Gorge, then some factories :o |
| 04:54 | <andythenorth> | anyway bbl |
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| 05:14 | <AcidWeb> | Hello. |
| 05:15 | <AcidWeb> | One fast question. There is any option that disable purchase of bankrupt companies in multiplayer? |
| 05:15 | <AcidWeb> | I found only one that disabled shares. |
| 05:19 | <appe> | hm, do i normally pay for the amount of stations i have on a map? |
| 05:24 | <@planetmaker> | iirc there's no such option, AcidWeb |
| 05:25 | <AcidWeb> | OK. Thank you. |
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| 05:54 | <dihedral> | greetings |
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| 06:12 | <appe> | bah, game time moves to fast |
| 06:12 | <dihedral> | Ammler: http://www.bitblokes.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/torvalds-laesst-luft-ab.jpeg |
| 06:13 | <appe> | jeez |
| 06:13 | <appe> | thats hard words from someone like that. |
| 06:18 | <Ammler> | dihedral: hehe, already read this: http://www.golem.de/news/linus-torvalds-linux-erfinder-schimpft-ueber-zu-viel-sicherheit-in-opensuse-1202-90130.html |
| 06:19 | <Ammler> | he is right, though you can take him serious anyway |
| 06:26 | <Ammler> | also not sure, if it is a security feature to keep away root pw from a local user |
| 06:31 | <dihedral> | i do that on every computer (root or administrator) |
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| 06:35 | <Ammler> | you do what? |
| 06:35 | <dihedral> | i do not hand out the root / administrator password |
| 06:36 | <dihedral> | why should i? |
| 06:36 | <Ammler> | yes, but not for security, just for support |
| 06:37 | <Ammler> | and in that case, it would be good, he couldn't connect to wlan |
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| 06:38 | <Ammler> | he, just changed my mind, linus is indeed wrong |
| 06:38 | <dihedral> | no, for security - i do not want them bitches fucking around with a running system if they do not know what they are doing |
| 06:38 | <dihedral> | installing / uninstalling software |
| 06:38 | <dihedral> | i do not care for installing printers, wlan, etc. |
| 06:39 | <Ammler> | and simply using a livedisk and resetting root pw isn't possible? |
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| 06:40 | <dihedral> | sure it is possible, but that then is intended harm |
| 06:40 | <dihedral> | and then i do not care :-P |
| 06:40 | <Ammler> | yes, so it is for security, it is that your guys don't fuck up your system and waste your time |
| 06:40 | <Ammler> | not* |
| 06:40 | <dihedral> | aye |
| 06:40 | <dihedral> | and it's security on servers where people do not have physical access to the system |
| 06:41 | <Ammler> | yes, I meant physical local users |
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| 06:48 | <@planetmaker> | depends on what you need an want |
| 06:50 | <Ammler> | it is advertising if linus rants about something :-) |
| 06:52 | <Ammler> | also last time I configured wlan, I was able to checkbox the connection, if it is user or system connection |
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| 06:53 | <Ammler> | but maybe it depends on the security policy template |
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| 06:56 | <Ammler> | dihedral: the best commentar is "I think that Apple makes a decent Unix distro that runs on the Macbook Air." |
| 06:57 | <MNIM> | hehehe |
| 06:57 | <dihedral> | well, Unix != Linux ;-) |
| 06:58 | <Ammler> | but it is quite nice, that suse seems to be the best distro to run there |
| 06:58 | <MNIM> | hmmmmh, I thought buntu ran on mac, too? |
| 06:59 | <Ammler> | run != run :-) |
| 06:59 | <@planetmaker> | but BSD != Unix :-P |
| 07:02 | <appe> | poop |
| 07:02 | <@planetmaker> | one could argue it, though |
| 07:03 | <appe> | argue poop? |
| 07:03 | <appe> | i admire the linguistic skills. |
| 07:04 | <@peter1138> | debian's the best distro. always. :p |
| 07:05 | <@peter1138> | only reason german-speaking people think suse is any good is cos it was made in germany ;p |
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| 07:05 | <Sacro> | Arch <3 |
| 07:13 | <Eddi|zuHause> | peter1138: so why is that not a valid reason then? :) |
| 07:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | peter1138: if it was made in britain, it would be like a fire extinguisher that catches fire :p |
| 07:14 | <Ammler> | hmm, there is for sure also blog around why linus doesn't like debian :-) |
| 07:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | anyway, what this whole security crap needs is a decent GUI to set it up |
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| 07:30 | <andythenorth> | so if I've understood correctly, when setting min versions for a grf, I need to pay attention also to which nml version the grf is compiled with |
| 07:30 | <andythenorth> | which means a grf compiled on bundle server might fail for ottd xyz, even though it's fine when compiled locally |
| 07:30 | <Ammler> | nml default is v8 |
| 07:31 | <andythenorth> | I mean nml version, not grf version |
| 07:31 | <Ammler> | you might use head, devzone uses nightlies, which sometimes is outdated :-) |
| 07:31 | <andythenorth> | more likely other way round in this case I think |
| 07:31 | <@planetmaker> | well, NML default branch currently aims to 1.2.0 - compatibility. Which recently means that requirement changed from 1.2.0-beta1 to 1.2.0-RC1 |
| 07:32 | <andythenorth> | I compiled and tested with an outdated nml |
| 07:32 | <andythenorth> | then uploaded to bananas the grf from bundle server |
| 07:32 | <@planetmaker> | as the newgrf container 2 was newly introduced |
| 07:32 | <andythenorth> | yes this would make 100% sense for the issue I had |
| 07:32 | <Ammler> | planetmaker: not default, you speak about 0.2, don't you? |
| 07:32 | <andythenorth> | means we need FIRS 0.7.2 :| |
| 07:32 | <@planetmaker> | why does it mean that, andythenorth? |
| 07:32 | <Ammler> | ah |
| 07:32 | <Ammler> | nevermind :-) |
| 07:32 | <@planetmaker> | Just change the version requirement of the bananas entry |
| 07:32 | <andythenorth> | oh of course :) |
| 07:33 | <@planetmaker> | changing the grf is not needed |
| 07:33 | <@planetmaker> | and won't change anything |
| 07:33 | <andythenorth> | so only bananas min version needs to change, not action 14 props? |
| 07:33 | <@planetmaker> | basically testing for an earlier openttd version is kinda pointless: those simply don't read the grf |
| 07:33 | <@planetmaker> | yep |
| 07:34 | <andythenorth> | do we even have a14 for ottd version? |
| 07:34 | <andythenorth> | I don't see one |
| 07:34 | <Ammler> | why not set a14 too? |
| 07:34 | <@planetmaker> | and those earlier versions not reading the grf is basically what that guy experiences. Though I don#t understand his hesitation to update from a random beta to the RC1... |
| 07:34 | <@planetmaker> | there's no such a14 |
| 07:34 | <andythenorth> | we have a check instead |
| 07:34 | <@planetmaker> | it would be an action7 |
| 07:34 | <andythenorth> | in checks.pnml |
| 07:35 | <@planetmaker> | but you can't check older versions when using a new grfcontainer |
| 07:35 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 07:35 | <@planetmaker> | reading fails before that action is read |
| 07:35 | <andythenorth> | I need to understand a little better what the right thing to do is |
| 07:35 | <andythenorth> | so we have min version in the grf |
| 07:35 | <andythenorth> | and min version on bananas |
| 07:35 | <@planetmaker> | the right thing is to change the bananas entry openttd version |
| 07:35 | <@planetmaker> | no other actions |
| 07:35 | <Ammler> | but 1.1.5 should handle it, I thought |
| 07:35 | <@planetmaker> | Ammler: no: it will also just ignore the grf |
| 07:35 | <@planetmaker> | like also the early 1.2.0 betas |
| 07:36 | <Ammler> | I meant, with a proper error :-) |
| 07:36 | <andythenorth> | and this is purely dependent on which nml it was compiled with? nothing intrinsic to the grf? |
| 07:36 | <@planetmaker> | kinda, yes |
| 07:36 | <@planetmaker> | as the container was only recently added. To both openttd and nml |
| 07:36 | <andythenorth> | so the min version check in the grf itself - if no change is needed, is it redundant? |
| 07:36 | <Ammler> | if firs does build with nml 0.2, use that |
| 07:36 | <andythenorth> | can I tell bundles server to do that? |
| 07:36 | <Ammler> | yes |
| 07:37 | <andythenorth> | is it wise? |
| 07:37 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth: no: that's the min version of FIRS itself it is compatible to. The min openttd version check meanwhile is kinda redundant, yes |
| 07:37 | <Ammler> | maybe not worth |
| 07:37 | <@planetmaker> | changing to nml 0.2.x for FIRS is not worth it |
| 07:37 | <andythenorth> | ok. so 1) establish min ottd version and change bananas |
| 07:37 | <andythenorth> | 2) remove redundant version check? |
| 07:37 | <@planetmaker> | it's compatible to 1.2.0 anyway only and not to 1.1.x |
| 07:38 | <@planetmaker> | and I'd keep the version check. To be added later a fitting check ;-) |
| 07:38 | <@planetmaker> | will be needed again in the future. I'm sure |
| 07:38 | * | andythenorth thinks so too |
| 07:38 | <andythenorth> | does it need a note adding in comments? |
| 07:38 | <Ammler> | does bananas work in the meantime and is able to download older firs on older clients? |
| 07:39 | <andythenorth> | no idea |
| 07:39 | <@planetmaker> | might be worth, andythenorth, though... cba for me ;-) |
| 07:39 | <@planetmaker> | I keep the version check in OpenGFX for the same reason |
| 07:39 | <andythenorth> | seems it should at least be same version as bananas version? |
| 07:39 | <@planetmaker> | Ammler: not in the way you mean. nothing changed. no one worked on bananas |
| 07:40 | <andythenorth> | although I see why that makes no difference if the check is never executed :P |
| 07:40 | <Ammler> | andythenorth: you also need to change the md5sum check, afaik, but that might be worth to wait for makefile update |
| 07:40 | <andythenorth> | I leave changes in the grf for now, means I don't have to re-release |
| 07:40 | <@planetmaker> | Ammler: a grf has no md5sum check... |
| 07:40 | <Ammler> | however you call taht now |
| 07:41 | <@planetmaker> | the only place the md5sum (or the grfid) matters is within openttd. |
| 07:41 | <@planetmaker> | but if you upload the devzone bundle... all will be fine |
| 07:41 | <@planetmaker> | for the purpose of checking whether you and the devzone build the same: md5sum is still sufficient |
| 07:41 | <Ammler> | openttd calls it still MD5sum |
| 07:42 | <Ammler> | hmm, or does that matter, which container version? |
| 07:42 | <andythenorth> | so min version for bananas....? http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/changeset/23897/ |
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| 07:43 | <Ammler> | planetmaker: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.7.1/firs-0.7.1.md5 <-- this does not match with openttd anymore |
| 07:43 | <@planetmaker> | true, Ammler |
| 07:43 | <Ammler> | so you have basically no version confirmation anymore |
| 07:44 | <@planetmaker> | as openttd probably shows you the grfid |
| 07:44 | <Ammler> | grfid -m |
| 07:44 | <@planetmaker> | yes |
| 07:44 | <@planetmaker> | though the point (for me) of that file is to check whether *I* build the same thing |
| 07:44 | <@planetmaker> | where it doesn't matter |
| 07:44 | <andythenorth> | +1 |
| 07:45 | <Ammler> | for me it was to check, if I use the same file |
| 07:45 | * | andythenorth should have checked the md5s yesterday |
| 07:45 | <andythenorth> | they probably vary |
| 07:45 | <andythenorth> | usually I do actually check |
| 07:45 | <Ammler> | or to search a unknown grf |
| 07:45 | <Ammler> | andythenorth: as long as you use the same tool on both sides, it should still work |
| 07:45 | <andythenorth> | yeah the md5s vary |
| 07:46 | <andythenorth> | poop, and stronger words |
| 07:46 | <Ammler> | you just can't use openttd as long as we use md5sum |
| 07:46 | <andythenorth> | *usually* I check. yesterday I was rushing :( |
| 07:46 | <@planetmaker> | yes |
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| 07:46 | <andythenorth> | 50 times I check, once I don't, the one time it varies :P |
| 07:46 | <@planetmaker> | I started to simply upload the devzone build ;-) |
| 07:46 | <Ammler> | andythenorth: I would bet, you have a M |
| 07:46 | <andythenorth> | no |
| 07:46 | <Ammler> | or you use the version where you tagged |
| 07:46 | <andythenorth> | I have a different nml |
| 07:47 | <Ammler> | that is often the issue someone does locally :-) |
| 07:47 | <andythenorth> | I hadn't accounted that upstream changes in the toolchain could do this ;) |
| 07:47 | <Ammler> | hg tag <tag>; hg up <tag> |
| 07:47 | <Ammler> | hg up <tag> is often forgotten |
| 07:47 | <@planetmaker> | changing NML often changes md5sum of the grf |
| 07:47 | <andythenorth> | I was behind the devzone |
| 07:48 | <andythenorth> | so I need to have exact same nml as devzone |
| 07:48 | <andythenorth> | otherwise this will occur again and again |
| 07:48 | <Ammler> | you see the version |
| 07:48 | <@planetmaker> | Snail_: did you btw, check what libpng-config --version give you wrt your grfcodec compilation issues? |
| 07:48 | <andythenorth> | can make bundle_zip curl the devzone version and compare with local? |
| 07:48 | <Ammler> | http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.7.1/log/ <-- in PACKAGES or in the devzone log grep for nml |
| 07:49 | <Snail_> | planetmaker: let me check now |
| 07:49 | <@planetmaker> | but rubi is right: it works w/o issues for both andy and me on the same OS revision |
| 07:49 | <Ammler> | andythenorth: IRC does btw announce, if md5sum changes with new nml |
| 07:49 | <@planetmaker> | as such you have something special going on |
| 07:49 | <Ammler> | the rebuild.diff |
| 07:50 | <andythenorth> | Ammler: does it raise a ticket? |
| 07:50 | <Snail_> | planetmaker: running libpng-config gives me a list of options |
| 07:50 | <andythenorth> | I'm in irc a lot but not always.... |
| 07:50 | <Ammler> | andythenorth: no, why should it |
| 07:50 | <@planetmaker> | libpng-config --version |
| 07:51 | <Snail_> | 1.4.8 |
| 07:51 | <Ammler> | the rebuild does not replace the older release, it does just check for differences |
| 07:51 | <@planetmaker> | but if it gives you a number of options that answers my question already |
| 07:51 | <andythenorth> | Ammler: because if the md5 sum changes, the grf has to be treated as failing integrity |
| 07:51 | <andythenorth> | compiled version is effectively untested |
| 07:51 | <@planetmaker> | I had it failing on updating libpng |
| 07:51 | <Ammler> | the grf is still ok if build with that version on that time |
| 07:51 | <Snail_> | should I update it now? |
| 07:51 | <andythenorth> | if the md5 sum has changed, any testing of the grf is now invalid |
| 07:51 | <Ammler> | if building fails, it will rise a ticket |
| 07:51 | <andythenorth> | but manual testing is invalid... |
| 07:51 | <andythenorth> | we have no idea if the grf performs as expected |
| 07:51 | <Ammler> | just changing md5sum does usually not hurt |
| 07:52 | <andythenorth> | it means the grf has changed |
| 07:52 | <andythenorth> | therefore the code is untested ;) |
| 07:52 | <Ammler> | as long as you distribute the origin |
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| 07:52 | <Ammler> | yes, but the changed grf is not distributed somewhere |
| 07:52 | <andythenorth> | should I stop telling people to use bundles server for downloads? |
| 07:52 | <Ammler> | why? |
| 07:53 | <andythenorth> | hmm - maybe my assumptions about rebuild are wrong |
| 07:53 | <Ammler> | bundles does _not_ publish the rebuild |
| 07:53 | <andythenorth> | that was my faulty assumption |
| 07:53 | <Ammler> | and releases don't get rebuilds |
| 07:53 | <andythenorth> | ok, all is well :) |
| 07:53 | <Ammler> | we use that just for nightlies |
| 07:54 | <Ammler> | http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/LATEST/log/REBUILD/ <-- it does publish :-) |
| 07:55 | <Ammler> | but that is quite hidden |
| 07:55 | <andythenorth> | why does MB struggle with ground sprites? |
| 07:55 | <andythenorth> | I miss the issue |
| 07:55 | <@planetmaker> | Snail_: do you have any Makefile.local floating around? |
| 07:55 | <andythenorth> | just specify an empty building sprite, or abuse the building sprite for one of the ground sprite layers |
| 07:56 | * | andythenorth sees no gain to the GS / BS distinction |
| 07:56 | <andythenorth> | sprites or childsprites, in a stack, is all is needed |
| 07:56 | <andythenorth> | Snail_: what does 'gcc' in a terminal tell you? |
| 07:56 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth: yes, I could have told that. But given the way he asks without giving any way he wants to go, I chose to answer as verbose as the question was |
| 07:57 | <Snail_> | nope... I just searched for "makefile.local" files on my HD and I found none |
| 07:57 | <@planetmaker> | would need to be in the grfcodec dir where you build it |
| 07:57 | <@planetmaker> | but with capital M |
| 07:57 | <@planetmaker> | hm... do you have a FS where case matters, Snail_? |
| 07:57 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth: do you have a file system where case matters? |
| 07:58 | <@planetmaker> | FS = file system |
| 07:58 | <andythenorth> | don't think so |
| 07:58 | <andythenorth> | let me check |
| 07:58 | <Snail_> | I'm on OS X, I don't think it matters |
| 07:58 | <andythenorth> | Disk Utility will know |
| 07:58 | <andythenorth> | Snail_: it's a format option |
| 07:58 | <@planetmaker> | Snail_: that depends. It matters on mine and it's an install-time option to choose that or not |
| 07:58 | <Ammler> | Snail_: you tested with a clean fresh checkout too? |
| 07:58 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: mine is not case sensitive |
| 07:59 | <andythenorth> | Mac OS Extended (Journaled) |
| 07:59 | <Snail_> | in that grfcodec dir, I found Makefile, Makefile.bundle and Makefile.local.sample |
| 07:59 | <Snail_> | andythenorth: it tells me "i686-apple-darwin10-gcc-4.2.1: no input files" |
| 07:59 | <andythenorth> | identical to mine |
| 08:00 | <@planetmaker> | so we use the same compiler, all three of us |
| 08:00 | <@planetmaker> | make --version |
| 08:00 | <Snail_> | GNU Make 3.81 |
| 08:00 | <@planetmaker> | also same |
| 08:00 | <andythenorth> | +1 |
| 08:01 | <Snail_> | also, in the dir for grfcodec r900 I also found three makefile's called with the same name |
| 08:01 | <Snail_> | and that one compiles fine... |
| 08:01 | <andythenorth> | something in the repo? |
| 08:01 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 08:01 | <andythenorth> | try rm src/data? |
| 08:01 | <@planetmaker> | eh, you got separate dirs for them, Snail_? |
| 08:01 | <Snail_> | of course :) |
| 08:01 | <@planetmaker> | of course? I have one where I checkout, build and done |
| 08:02 | <Snail_> | in each case, I go to the correct directory and run "make all" |
| 08:02 | <@planetmaker> | you don't get the source via mercurial? |
| 08:02 | <andythenorth> | there's some folder that I have had to delete a couple of times to get grfcodec to build |
| 08:02 | <Snail_> | I get it from the webpage |
| 08:02 | <@planetmaker> | can you give me URL? |
| 08:02 | <@planetmaker> | so you build from a tar ball? |
| 08:03 | <Snail_> | http://www.openttd.org/en/download-nforenum-nightly |
| 08:03 | <@planetmaker> | nforenum? |
| 08:03 | <Ammler> | that will be forwarded to grfcodec |
| 08:03 | <Snail_> | that page is called nforenum, but it has the sources for grfcodec |
| 08:03 | <Ammler> | planetmaker: it is like you call testing but there are none |
| 08:03 | <Ammler> | <grfcodec> in finger |
| 08:03 | * | andythenorth tries compile |
| 08:03 | <@planetmaker> | indeed it's re-directed to download-grfcodec |
| 08:04 | <andythenorth> | I just compiled the src from here: http://gb.binaries.openttd.org/binaries/extra/grfcodec-trunk/r920/grfcodec-trunk-r920-source.zip |
| 08:04 | <andythenorth> | works fine |
| 08:04 | <andythenorth> | r920 |
| 08:04 | <@planetmaker> | ok, that trunk tar ball fails here |
| 08:04 | <Snail_> | ok, will try nonw |
| 08:05 | <Snail_> | *now |
| 08:05 | <@planetmaker> | hm, no, it doesn't fail really |
| 08:06 | <@planetmaker> | though it gives the error you quoted with /bin/sh: line 0: [: =: unary operator expected |
| 08:06 | <andythenorth> | I got that too |
| 08:06 | <andythenorth> | but in that dir, ./grfcodec works |
| 08:06 | <@planetmaker> | yes, here, too |
| 08:06 | <andythenorth> | Snail_: is your priority to have a working compile, or a working grfcodec? |
| 08:07 | <Snail_> | this works! |
| 08:07 | <@planetmaker> | but... that's the same source |
| 08:07 | <Snail_> | andythenorth: yes it is, because the current nforenum doesn't support property 0A for railtypes |
| 08:07 | <Snail_> | planetmaker: really? where is that downloadable from? |
| 08:08 | <@planetmaker> | andy posted the mirror link to where the link you gaves directs people from GB (and near there) |
| 08:08 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 08:08 | <@planetmaker> | I took the source from what you gave, snail, and it works, too |
| 08:09 | <Snail_> | that's really strange |
| 08:09 | <andythenorth> | Snail_: is it sorted or not? I can send you a bundle if you need it |
| 08:09 | <@planetmaker> | but it is identical. As our main server updates those mirrors... |
| 08:09 | <Snail_> | now I tried to go back to the old version and it compi les... |
| 08:09 | <Snail_> | the funny thing is that I didn't change anything there |
| 08:09 | <Snail_> | anyway... now it looks like it works |
| 08:09 | <Snail_> | sorry for the trouble guys :) |
| 08:10 | <@planetmaker> | you changed something: you ran make at least once before |
| 08:10 | <Ammler> | the bin/sh error is here too |
| 08:10 | <@planetmaker> | in the same dir |
| 08:10 | <Ammler> | on tarball, not with hg checkout |
| 08:10 | <@planetmaker> | that might change *something* |
| 08:10 | <Snail_> | well, I put the file I got from Andy's link in another dir and compiled it there |
| 08:11 | <Snail_> | then I came back to the old r920 dir and tried to compile it there, too, where it didn't work yesterday |
| 08:11 | <Snail_> | and both worked |
| 08:12 | <@planetmaker> | would be nice to be able to *not* get it working again (maybe unzip the tar anew and try there or so) |
| 08:12 | <@planetmaker> | as it then might point to where the error lies |
| 08:13 | <Snail_> | ok, let me try |
| 08:14 | <Snail_> | this is puzzling. I just re-downloaded it from the nforenum page, put it in a different directory, tried to compile it, ad it's compiling correctly |
| 08:17 | <Ammler> | Snail_: aren't you able to close the ticket? |
| 08:17 | <Ammler> | something with the devzone workflow is broken :-/ |
| 08:19 | <Snail_> | well, I wrote a message saying it's solved |
| 08:19 | <Snail_> | now I need to go... |
| 08:20 | <Ammler> | yes, it's an issue with devzone workflow, author should be able to close/reject a ticket |
| 08:21 | * | andythenorth will soon be offering sprite generator to retail consumers |
| 08:21 | <Snail_> | bye all |
| 08:21 | <andythenorth> | Super Discount on first purchase |
| 08:21 | <andythenorth> | :) |
| 08:21 | <andythenorth> | bye Snail_ |
| 08:23 | <@planetmaker> | Ammler: only members of a project currently can close an issue |
| 08:23 | <@planetmaker> | https://dev.openttdcoop.org/workflows/edit?role_id=1&tracker_id=1&used_statuses_only=0&used_statuses_only=1 |
| 08:23 | <@planetmaker> | non-members can't close |
| 08:24 | <@planetmaker> | they can set the status to resolved. That's fine. IMHO. Exactly as it is |
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| 08:25 | <Ammler> | planetmaker: there is additional section: "Additional transitions allowed when the user is the author" |
| 08:25 | <@planetmaker> | yep. And 'resolved' is good enough, imho |
| 08:25 | <@planetmaker> | and I was talking about that section specifically |
| 08:26 | <Ammler> | ah, but that is not marked, closed is marked |
| 08:27 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 08:28 | <andythenorth> | it's a hard balance between flexible classes for reuse by others, and lots of parameters and scaffolding :( |
| 08:28 | <@planetmaker> | http://imagebin.org/201369 <-- Ammler, you see in the lower half? |
| 08:30 | <Ammler> | yes, and you think, resolved is marked? |
| 08:30 | <@planetmaker> | I do |
| 08:31 | <@planetmaker> | closed and rejected are the only inaccessible options for non-members for issues they opened themselves |
| 08:32 | <@planetmaker> | actually... I probably just interpret the wrong way |
| 08:40 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 08:40 | <andythenorth> | I never figured out what ottd rev I should set in Bnnananas for FIRS |
| 08:41 | <@planetmaker> | the newgrf version |
| 08:41 | <@planetmaker> | thus the decimal equivalent of 0x0102008xxxxx |
| 08:41 | <@planetmaker> | where xxxxx is the hex equivalent of the svn rev |
| 08:43 | <@planetmaker> | actually.... make that 8 a 0 |
| 08:43 | <@planetmaker> | might be better |
| 08:43 | <andythenorth> | and the svn rev is...? :) |
| 08:43 | <@planetmaker> | the 8 indicates release |
| 08:43 | <andythenorth> | http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/changeset/23897/ looks plausible |
| 08:44 | <Ammler> | or use latest nightly |
| 08:45 | <andythenorth> | @topic |
| 08:45 | <@DorpsGek> | andythenorth: 1.1.5, 1.2.0-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever | English only |
| 08:45 | <Ammler> | or whatever openttd you have tested it |
| 08:45 | <andythenorth> | :) |
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| 08:45 | <Ammler> | at least don't use a earlier |
| 08:46 | <@planetmaker> | I'd use the rev of openttd 1.2.0-RC1 |
| 08:46 | <@planetmaker> | using latest nightly is too strong, Ammler |
| 08:46 | <andythenorth> | +1 planetmaker |
| 08:47 | <Ammler> | planetmaker: depends which openttd andy is using righ tnow |
| 08:47 | <@planetmaker> | r23971, andythenorth |
| 08:47 | <@planetmaker> | @ base 10 16 23971 |
| 08:47 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 5DA3 |
| 08:47 | <andythenorth> | yup |
| 08:47 | <andythenorth> | thanks |
| 08:48 | <@planetmaker> | @base 16 10 010200005DA3 |
| 08:48 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 1108101586339 |
| 08:48 | <@planetmaker> | ^^ andythenorth |
| 08:48 | <andythenorth> | bananas doesn't use the svn rev? |
| 08:48 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 08:48 | <Ammler> | planetmaker: that is like define /bin/sh as shell but always test with bash ;-) |
| 08:48 | <andythenorth> | I've been doing it wrong in that case :P |
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| 08:48 | <Ammler> | so instead test with other shells, define bash as shell ;-) |
| 08:49 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth: yes ;-) As the svn rev does not give you the branch correctly. This way allows to distinguish |
| 08:49 | <@planetmaker> | Like 1.1.5 is much older than an August nightly. But the newgrf version of the August nightly is much higher than the one of 1.1.5 |
| 08:49 | <@planetmaker> | as it's 010105... vs 010200... |
| 08:50 | <Ammler> | and what is the release flag for? |
| 08:50 | <andythenorth> | so 1108101586339 |
| 08:51 | <@planetmaker> | Ammler: so that a release is higher than a non-release... and that you can identify a release |
| 08:51 | <@planetmaker> | but well. no other purpose than to tell 'release' |
| 08:52 | <Ammler> | ah, as soon as 1.2 is released, you change to 1.3 for trunk |
| 08:52 | <@planetmaker> | yup. Already done |
| 08:52 | * | andythenorth tests bananas now with r23969 |
| 08:53 | <@planetmaker> | as soon as branching, Ammler |
| 08:53 | <Ammler> | of course :-) |
| 08:54 | <Ammler> | but then, he should use the release flag |
| 08:54 | <@planetmaker> | why? |
| 08:54 | <Ammler> | oh well, doesn't matter |
| 08:54 | <@planetmaker> | just any nightly will do from that svn onward |
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| 08:55 | <Ammler> | the release flag is basically a workaround, if someone would still use 1.2 for trunk after branching |
| 08:56 | <andythenorth> | ok FIRS 0.7.1 doesn't appear with 32969 |
| 08:56 | <andythenorth> | 23969 /s |
| 08:58 | <@planetmaker> | how inconvenient. Trunk crashes on start :-( |
| 08:58 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 08:58 | <andythenorth> | FIRS 0.7.1 doesn't appear now for ottd tip :P |
| 08:59 | <andythenorth> | can anyone else confirm that it's not just me? :) |
| 08:59 | <andythenorth> | 0.7.0 doesn't appear for me either though |
| 08:59 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 09:00 | <andythenorth> | that's odd |
| 09:01 | <Ammler> | andythenorth: no firs with rc1 |
| 09:01 | <Ammler> | well, 0.6.4 |
| 09:01 | <andythenorth> | me too |
| 09:01 | <andythenorth> | no 0.7.0 or 0.7.1 |
| 09:01 | <andythenorth> | but I didn't touch the version requirement for 0.7.0 |
| 09:01 | <andythenorth> | and people have been downloading it :P |
| 09:02 | <Ammler> | andythenorth: you do not need this version thing on the bananas |
| 09:02 | <Ammler> | that is for newgrf |
| 09:02 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Hrm. I'm using 0.7.1 atm but the "check online content" only says 0.6.4. Using r23974 |
| 09:02 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 09:03 | <Ammler> | on bananas you use the menu |
| 09:03 | <Ammler> | or the rev |
| 09:03 | <andythenorth> | Ammler: so what value do I set in the menu? |
| 09:03 | <Ammler> | 23791 |
| 09:04 | <Ammler> | planetmaker: right? |
| 09:04 | <andythenorth> | andythenorth: bananas doesn't use the svn rev? <- planetmaker: andythenorth: yes As the svn rev does not give you the branch correctly. This way allows to distinguish |
| 09:04 | <Ammler> | ok :-) |
| 09:04 | <Ammler> | sorry then, but it seems to be an issue there then |
| 09:04 | <Ammler> | maybe simply set release to 1.2 |
| 09:04 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 09:05 | <andythenorth> | I paste 1108101586339 into bananas rev field |
| 09:05 | <andythenorth> | but it re-renders it as 1845493759 |
| 09:05 | <Ammler> | no |
| 09:05 | <Ammler> | yes |
| 09:05 | <andythenorth> | this is very odd |
| 09:05 | <Ammler> | overflow maybe? |
| 09:05 | <andythenorth> | no idea |
| 09:05 | <@planetmaker> | hm... maybe I added too many digits |
| 09:05 | <@planetmaker> | possibly |
| 09:06 | <@planetmaker> | @base 16 10 12005da3 |
| 09:06 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 302013859 |
| 09:06 | <@planetmaker> | ^^ sorry andythenorth |
| 09:06 | <andythenorth> | this seems quite painful bureaucracy :D |
| 09:06 | <@planetmaker> | not one byte but one nibble per version number |
| 09:06 | <andythenorth> | one day...a bananas rebuild |
| 09:07 | <@planetmaker> | seems I'm in for some fun... http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1163/ |
| 09:07 | <andythenorth> | oh |
| 09:08 | <andythenorth> | looks horrible :( |
| 09:08 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 09:08 | <andythenorth> | ottd tip still won't see FIRS |
| 09:09 | <andythenorth> | solved |
| 09:09 | <andythenorth> | use the 'custom' field not nightly |
| 09:09 | <andythenorth> | 23971 is not a nightly |
| 09:09 | <Ammler> | I think, it would also work, if you would use svn revs only |
| 09:09 | <Ammler> | as long as you do not mix |
| 09:10 | <Ammler> | but as you used this extended version on 0.6.4 already |
| 09:10 | <Ammler> | so that is why 0.7.0 is hidden |
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| 09:10 | <andythenorth> | it's not easy is it :) |
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| 09:11 | <Ammler> | the need to add release version to the version check is very rare |
| 09:11 | <Ammler> | planetmaker: can you tell a scenario, when this could matter? |
| 09:12 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 09:12 | <andythenorth> | FIRS 0.7.1 is also available to r23969 |
| 09:13 | <Ammler> | yes, because trunk is 1.3 |
| 09:13 | <@planetmaker> | sorry, I can't help you now, andythenorth. No working OpenTTD |
| 09:13 | <andythenorth> | :( |
| 09:13 | <andythenorth> | FIRS also works in r23969 |
| 09:13 | <andythenorth> | meh |
| 09:13 | <Ammler> | but as I said, on trunk, only latest working nightly matters :-) |
| 09:14 | <andythenorth> | this is thoroughly confusing tbh |
| 09:14 | <Ammler> | 12005da3 < 12005da1 |
| 09:14 | <Ammler> | 12005da3 < 13005da1 * |
| 09:14 | <andythenorth> | I might just set no min version |
| 09:15 | <andythenorth> | ottd should handle this better |
| 09:15 | <Ammler> | why do you care about trunk? |
| 09:15 | <andythenorth> | downloading and reporting success for a grf it can't use is dumb |
| 09:15 | <andythenorth> | Ammler: I don't know of any alternative |
| 09:15 | <andythenorth> | what are the options? |
| 09:15 | <Ammler> | not care about outdated trunk |
| 09:16 | <Ammler> | only expeimantal people use those and those you need not to handle, they do that self |
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| 09:16 | <andythenorth> | ok, I have to set the min version to something so I've set it to 0 |
| 09:16 | <Ammler> | no |
| 09:17 | <Ammler> | why not keep the version you had from pm? |
| 09:17 | <Ammler> | it is fine for releases |
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| 09:17 | <Ammler> | you should care, that 1.1.5 does not download 0.7.1 |
| 09:18 | <@planetmaker> | right... seems I messed with OpenGFX enough so that it crashes each OpenTTD I tried |
| 09:18 | <andythenorth> | Ammler I don't understand how to do that |
| 09:18 | <andythenorth> | is there a spec for this anywhere? |
| 09:18 | <Ammler> | like pm said, you did alright |
| 09:18 | <andythenorth> | newgrf spec has nothing on bananas |
| 09:18 | <Ammler> | your only fault was to test with a very strange trunk revision |
| 09:19 | <andythenorth> | ottd wiki says "Minimal Version: The minimal game version required to use your work. When selecting Nightly or Custom, fill in the nightly revision number or the name and version of the required patchpack in the adjacent field." |
| 09:19 | <Ammler> | test with openttd 1.1.5 and 1.2.rc1 |
| 09:20 | <Ammler> | andythenorth: again, you setup that fine, you just tested wrongly :-P |
| 09:20 | <andythenorth> | but there's no spec |
| 09:20 | <andythenorth> | can't be wrong if there's no spec :P |
| 09:20 | <Ammler> | you think, where does pm has it from? |
| 09:20 | <andythenorth> | code? |
| 09:21 | <@planetmaker> | should be found there... but also that's what rb told me (long) ago |
| 09:22 | <@planetmaker> | unless I have a faulty memory |
| 09:22 | <@planetmaker> | not unheard of, though |
| 09:22 | <Ammler> | planetmaker: there is no way to exclude older trunk but include current stable? |
| 09:23 | <@planetmaker> | hm? |
| 09:23 | <Ammler> | [15:14] <Ammler> 12005da3 < 13005da1 |
| 09:23 | <@planetmaker> | you can set a min and a max version... |
| 09:23 | <andythenorth> | I've set it back to 302013859 |
| 09:23 | <andythenorth> | I'm just going to trust it works |
| 09:23 | <andythenorth> | I've got a demanding toddler and a cross wife, and I skipped lunch so far trying to fix this |
| 09:24 | <andythenorth> | ;) |
| 09:24 | <Ammler> | planetmaker: how to setup a version which is backported from trunk? |
| 09:24 | <andythenorth> | I don't have time to download stables |
| 09:24 | <andythenorth> | if anyone else does, the effort would be appreciated |
| 09:25 | * | andythenorth bbl |
| 09:25 | <Ammler> | they just need to check, what version bananas offers for firs on 1.1.5 |
| 09:25 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I'll do it |
| 09:26 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I forgot how to workaround svn's daftness so I have all these tag dirs full of stables.. |
| 09:26 | <@planetmaker> | lol, you did an svn co of the full svn repo? |
| 09:26 | <Rhamphoryncus> | yup |
| 09:26 | <Ammler> | Rhamphoryncus: we offer a hg repo with tags on hg.openttdcoop.org |
| 09:27 | <@planetmaker> | that's a long download |
| 09:27 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Wasn't until after that I remembered how to do it properly |
| 09:27 | <Ammler> | there is also a git pendant somewhere around |
| 09:27 | <Rhamphoryncus> | even better: my network was acting up and I kept having to resume it |
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| 09:27 | <Rhamphoryncus> | My work is done via hg but for openttdcoop I need to track a svn revision |
| 09:28 | <Ammler> | Rhamphoryncus: not with the repo from hg.openttdcoop.org |
| 09:28 | <Rhamphoryncus> | huh? |
| 09:28 | <Ammler> | https://hg.openttdcoop.org/openttd |
| 09:29 | <Ammler> | oh, I need to add 1.2 |
| 09:29 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Yes, the logs have version numbers but I don't want to search the logs for the right hg number |
| 09:31 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Only 0.6.4 :/ |
| 09:31 | <andythenorth> | for 1.1.5? |
| 09:31 | <Rhamphoryncus> | yup |
| 09:31 | <andythenorth> | good |
| 09:31 | <andythenorth> | that's probably success |
| 09:31 | <Rhamphoryncus> | oh :) |
| 09:32 | <andythenorth> | if 1.2.0-RC1 can see 0.7.1 that's definitely success imo |
| 09:32 | <Rhamphoryncus> | and.. trunk has 0.7.1 again |
| 09:32 | <Ammler> | Rhamphoryncus: check the repo again, openttdcoop.org != openttd.org |
| 09:33 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Ammler: it looks like it's the same thing |
| 09:33 | <Ammler> | yes, but it has tags |
| 09:33 | <Ammler> | it uses another method to convert svn repo |
| 09:33 | <Rhamphoryncus> | So what is the tag for r23974? |
| 09:34 | <Ammler> | why do you care about that? |
| 09:34 | <Rhamphoryncus> | That's what I need to play openttdcoop |
| 09:34 | <Ammler> | hg up "svn(23974)" |
| 09:34 | <Rhamphoryncus> | o.O |
| 09:34 | <Rhamphoryncus> | fuck :P |
| 09:34 | <Ammler> | but that works with hg.openttd.org too |
| 09:35 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I may try that later, but with my luck it'll set my monitor on fire *g* |
| 09:35 | <Ammler> | hmm, might need hgsubversion installed |
| 09:35 | <Ammler> | but then you can also simply grep for svn rev, check findversion.sh |
| 09:36 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I'll likely try hg.openttdcoop.org later anyway, as the openttd.org one seems to not do merges. |
| 09:36 | <Ammler> | it has only trunk |
| 09:36 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Not merging is bad for working on openttd :) |
| 09:36 | <Ammler> | for working on it, you need trunk only :-) |
| 09:37 | <Rhamphoryncus> | If both I and upstream touched a file it'd do nothing more than throw gvimdiff at me and laugh |
| 09:37 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Which.. is worse than CVS, heh. |
| 09:37 | <Ammler> | but for playing, you can have one repo and simply make BUNDLE_DIR="bundles/ps" etc. |
| 09:37 | <Rhamphoryncus> | what's that do? |
| 09:38 | <Ammler> | make bundle installs the bunlde to ./bundle, you can can change that via bundle_dir |
| 09:38 | <Rhamphoryncus> | what's a bundle? :P |
| 09:38 | <Ammler> | the binary package |
| 09:39 | <Ammler> | a copy from ./bin basically |
| 09:39 | <Rhamphoryncus> | ah |
| 09:40 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Well I'm pretty sure I won't be eliminating my other copies, heh |
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| 09:44 | <Belugas> | hello |
| 09:48 | <andythenorth> | Ammler: hg up "svn(23974)" <- :0 I need that |
| 09:48 | <andythenorth> | I'm so bored of opening the log and reading svn revs by hand |
| 09:48 | <Ammler> | check hg for revmap and filemap etc. |
| 09:48 | <Ammler> | there are lots of such things |
| 09:49 | <Ammler> | but the above might need hgsubversion installed |
| 09:49 | <andythenorth> | I've been considering that anyway |
| 09:49 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Oh, that's a given with hg and git: there is an obscure way to do what you want. Probably 6 obscure ways. |
| 09:49 | * | andythenorth has no time to play with hgsubversion today though :P |
| 09:49 | <andythenorth> | poo awaits |
| 09:50 | <andythenorth> | not mine |
| 09:50 | <Ammler> | hg clone hgsubversion |
| 09:50 | <Ammler> | include the dir in your hgrc [extensions] |
| 09:51 | <andythenorth> | k |
| 09:53 | <Ammler> | I patched hgsubversion so it does add svn rev to the comment, but the hgrev is also part of meta data which you can see with hg log --debug |
| 09:53 | <Ammler> | svnrev* |
| 09:54 | <Ammler> | usually hgsubversion is needed only, if you want to push to a svn repo too, else in most cases hg convert suiffices |
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| 09:57 | * | Rhamphoryncus upgrades his alcohol trains to americans :D |
| 10:02 | <MNIM> | ...but... americans have low alcohol tolerance! |
| 10:02 | * | MNIM ducks |
| 10:03 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Yeah, and I'm canadian and don't drink anyway, so what do I care what it does to them? |
| 10:15 | <MNIM> | well, your American alcohol trains are bound to be bad. |
| 10:17 | <Rhamphoryncus> | They only look like American's. They're secretly carrying Gavan's Brew |
| 10:18 | <MNIM> | ahah |
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| 10:46 | <Belugas> | alcohol? somebody mentionned alcohol? |
| 10:46 | <_maddy> | hi openttd folks |
| 10:46 | <MNIM> | shoo shoo, nobody said anything of the kind. Now kindly move on, please. |
| 10:46 | * | MNIM puts Belugas back on a train to poland. |
| 10:48 | * | planetmaker wonders about the meaning of the word 'back' |
| 10:48 | * | Belugas mumbles and grumbles and picks up his coffee mug with a disgusted look in his eyes |
| 10:48 | <Belugas> | mmh... now that you mention it, planetmaker, me too! |
| 10:57 | * | Rhamphoryncus fires Norris, and all his Norris friends! |
| 11:00 | <Elukka> | http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/20m.png |
| 11:00 | <Elukka> | wheee orbital rendezvous |
| 11:00 | <Elukka> | kerbal space program is great fun |
| 11:01 | <Sacro> | Yes |
| 11:01 | <Sacro> | damn straight |
| 11:02 | <Sacro> | until you're 230Mm out with no chance of return |
| 11:02 | <Elukka> | someone figured out how to merge save games |
| 11:02 | <Elukka> | http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/522654444002391842/FC85D00D87A31A20152DF1C513BB81F7A220B7E8/ |
| 11:04 | <Elukka> | rendezvous is hard. much harder than flying to the moon or anything else i've done |
| 11:04 | <Elukka> | it's easy enough to get to the same orbit, the hard part is getting there at the right time |
| 11:10 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Aha, oops. I just realized I'm selling some excess vehicles.. during a recession |
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| 11:23 | <@planetmaker> | anyone want to see an extensive NewGRF list? http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=5781 |
| 11:26 | <Rhamphoryncus> | That looks comparable to what I use |
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| 11:27 | <Rhamphoryncus> | ~45 not including town names |
| 11:29 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I count 75 for them |
| 11:29 | <supermop> | planetmaker: why do you bother using my depot but not the sheds? |
| 11:29 | <supermop> | its not that nice of a depot currently |
| 11:30 | <@planetmaker> | you think it's my newgrf list, supermop? |
| 11:30 | <@planetmaker> | it's the list of NewGRFs used by the person posting the screenshot with the question there |
| 11:31 | <@planetmaker> | reason for his trouble: NewGRF interference ;-) |
| 11:31 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I've had a lot of that :/ |
| 11:31 | <@planetmaker> | it's easy to arrive there |
| 11:31 | <Rhamphoryncus> | newgrfs are complicated black-boxes |
| 11:32 | <@planetmaker> | they need be neither. But can be |
| 11:32 | <supermop> | does oberhümer come here? |
| 11:32 | <@planetmaker> | yes |
| 11:33 | <@planetmaker> | well. sometimes. |
| 11:33 | <supermop> | he was working on helping me by making my depot grf a rail type thing |
| 11:33 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Even in the best case.. I know NARS is supposed to have trains, but what and when? Only reason I know is someone put them on a wiki |
| 11:33 | <supermop> | so that with nutracks, you would get all of the different styles |
| 11:33 | <@planetmaker> | Rhamphoryncus: that someone was the author himself |
| 11:33 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I figured |
| 11:34 | <@planetmaker> | supermop: better way is though to contact him via forum mail or e-mail |
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| 11:48 | <sponge> | Evenin fellas |
| 11:49 | -!- | morph_ [~4e547932@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd |
| 11:49 | <morph_> | Can anyone try to join 95.143.38.18 (1.1.5-Stable) and check out if it's lagging? Because the stupid server lags for me :( |
| 11:49 | <sponge> | Is it possible to order a vehicle to stop at all stations it passes or do I have to add a Go to order for every station? |
| 11:51 | <Rhamphoryncus> | sponge: the default (not non-stop) stops in each station the vehicle happens to pass through |
| 11:51 | <Rhamphoryncus> | But explicitly including each station is more reliable |
| 11:52 | <sponge> | Rhamphoryncus: how do you mean more reliable? |
| 11:52 | <@planetmaker> | sponge: if the train must visit the station on the way, it will stop there if you do not use non-stop orders |
| 11:52 | <sponge> | i have probably 100+ stations |
| 11:52 | <sponge> | ok cool. |
| 11:53 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Any tweak to your network can alter where it goes. Even other traffic can. If it has a choice. |
| 11:54 | <sponge> | Rhamphoryncus: circular line |
| 11:54 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Alright, that's fine then |
| 11:54 | <sponge> | although i noticed it tried switching direction on the one station i did specify, but specifying two of the most distant stations seems to work |
| 11:54 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Are you using shared orders? |
| 11:54 | <sponge> | Yeah. |
| 11:55 | <sponge> | got about 40 trains just going in a big loop |
| 11:55 | * | Rhamphoryncus nods |
| 11:55 | <sponge> | should be ok then if i specify two stations |
| 11:55 | <Rhamphoryncus> | There's also an option in advanced settings to make goto "stick", so you can click one, click another, etc |
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| 11:56 | <morph_> | Can a NewGrf lag your multiplayer server? |
| 11:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "Max Payne (2001) removed from The Index" |
| 11:58 | <@planetmaker> | morph_: not on their own. But NewGRFs can use additional CPU |
| 11:58 | <@planetmaker> | but the lag could also be your computer locally. Which is barely able to keep up with the server |
| 11:58 | <@planetmaker> | check whether your openttd uses 100% of the single one core it runs on |
| 12:06 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 12:06 | <andythenorth> | projectile baby sick |
| 12:06 | <Rhamphoryncus> | eww :P |
| 12:06 | <Rhamphoryncus> | andythenorth: if you'd like any help redesigning or reprogramming farmsup/engsup just let me know. They're killing it for me. |
| 12:07 | <andythenorth> | there are tickets for them |
| 12:07 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I know, we discussed it a bit before |
| 12:07 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Now I'm offering labour |
| 12:08 | <andythenorth> | http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2296 |
| 12:08 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker has a partial patch |
| 12:09 | <morph_> | OpenTTD is using like <1% of CPU |
| 12:09 | <morph_> | But there's like lag on my network server |
| 12:09 | <@planetmaker> | 1%? That's ... hard to believe tbh |
| 12:09 | * | andythenorth is a bit interested in other projects right now, FIRS less so ;) |
| 12:09 | <morph_> | It feels like low fps - trains move not smooth but like in jumps, if you know what i mean |
| 12:10 | <Rubidium> | sounds like an unreliable network |
| 12:10 | <morph_> | 0.1 % ./openttd -D -f |
| 12:11 | <morph_> | That's CPU usage and the command I'm using to start server |
| 12:11 | <morph_> | I did a traceroute, yet no packet loss was found |
| 12:12 | <andythenorth> | what sane cases are there for spritesheets where the height of each row varies? |
| 12:12 | <@planetmaker> | construction stages. growth stages |
| 12:12 | <andythenorth> | so buildings |
| 12:12 | <@planetmaker> | loaded / unloaded vehicles |
| 12:12 | <andythenorth> | that was the only case I could think of so far |
| 12:13 | <andythenorth> | is it necessary for vehicles? |
| 12:13 | <@planetmaker> | no |
| 12:13 | <@planetmaker> | strictly speaking necessary nowhere, if you crop sprites |
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| 12:14 | <andythenorth> | trying to eliminate parameters |
| 12:14 | <andythenorth> | flexibility vs complexity :P |
| 12:14 | * | andythenorth has never designed code for use by other people before :o |
| 12:15 | <Rhamphoryncus> | "((random_bits << 2) & 1)" Isn't that shift backwards? |
| 12:16 | <Rubidium> | depends what your expected result is; if you want a consistent result, this is the way to go |
| 12:17 | <Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 12:17 | <Rubidium> | if you want the result to be something else than 0, then it's wrong... unless it's a programming language where << is a ROL |
| 12:17 | <Rhamphoryncus> | http://xkcd.com/221/ |
| 12:18 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Rubidium: btw, have you tracked down the leader yet? I hear rumours that they're skulking around here somewhere. |
| 12:19 | <Rubidium> | huh? |
| 12:19 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 12:19 | <andythenorth> | what's left to do? |
| 12:20 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Rubidium: referring to my first conversation with you where I commented on not seeing any leadership |
| 12:20 | <andythenorth> | leadership? :O |
| 12:20 | <andythenorth> | this is an anarchy |
| 12:20 | <andythenorth> | with Rubidium as chief anarchist |
| 12:21 | <Rhamphoryncus> | well, yes |
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| 12:21 | <Rhamphoryncus> | He didn't tell me that though. Let me ramble on to him as if he was just another peon |
| 12:22 | <andythenorth> | do you need leaders in a meta-game? |
| 12:22 | <andythenorth> | can't you just have players? |
| 12:22 | <Rhamphoryncus> | it'd help |
| 12:23 | * | andythenorth is playing a meta-game callec |
| 12:23 | <andythenorth> | "how many features can you get added without writing any c++?" |
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| 12:23 | <andythenorth> | dunno who's winning though, me or the game :P |
| 12:24 | <Rhamphoryncus> | My first instinct was to say the game, simply by making you play.. but we are talking about C++ |
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| 12:25 | <Rubidium> | the question is, what is C++ and what isn't? |
| 12:25 | <Rubidium> | a = b |
| 12:25 | <Rubidium> | that could interpreted as C++ |
| 12:25 | <Rubidium> | with the semi colon being on another line, or whatever |
| 12:26 | <Rubidium> | but then basically all written characters can be argued to be valid C++ |
| 12:26 | * | Rhamphoryncus suddenly gets the feeling that Rubidium is a very clever and elaborate troll ;) |
| 12:26 | <andythenorth> | I'd say if it's committed to the repo and compiles, that counts for n points ;) |
| 12:27 | <andythenorth> | possibly I'm writing things that are valid c++ if put through a transform :P |
| 12:27 | <Rubidium> | Rhamphoryncus: thank you for noticing I'm a supernatural being ;) |
| 12:28 | <andythenorth> | transform is usually another human being |
| 12:28 | <Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 12:28 | <Rubidium> | although I'd love it if you would use the term jötunn |
| 12:29 | <@planetmaker> | haha :-) |
| 12:29 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Google seems to think that's a wow character |
| 12:30 | * | andythenorth needs to write a sprite loader |
| 12:30 | <andythenorth> | because sequencing bitmaps manually by (x,y,colour) might not be for everyone :P |
| 12:30 | <andythenorth> | works for me |
| 12:31 | <andythenorth> | typing is better than click-move-click-choosecolour-move-click blah |
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| 12:31 | <@planetmaker> | Rhamphoryncus: then you didn't look properly or only in the games' section |
| 12:32 | <Rhamphoryncus> | planetmaker: there's only ~4 pages of results. I'm not picking a section |
| 12:32 | <@planetmaker> | I picked the first entry which was a wiki link... |
| 12:32 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I suspect it's giving me a different set |
| 12:33 | <@planetmaker> | thus arguing with 4 pages doesn't cut it |
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| 12:33 | <Rhamphoryncus> | google .ca gives 7 pages |
| 12:33 | <Rhamphoryncus> | First result is the wow character |
| 12:33 | * | andythenorth will just spoil it for you |
| 12:33 | <andythenorth> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jötunn |
| 12:33 | <andythenorth> | first result for me |
| 12:34 | <andythenorth> | ;) |
| 12:34 | <@planetmaker> | :-( @ andythenorth |
| 12:34 | <andythenorth> | game over ! |
| 12:34 | <_maddy> | anyone want to start a cooperative multiplayer game with me? |
| 12:34 | <@planetmaker> | indeed |
| 12:34 | <Rhamphoryncus> | See, there's the problem. I trusted rubidium's spelling and google didn't correct it. Clever troll! |
| 12:34 | <@planetmaker> | where's the spelling incorrect? |
| 12:35 | <Rhamphoryncus> | _maddy: I would but I have to iron my underwear |
| 12:35 | <Rhamphoryncus> | oh damnit, it was just me that misread & misspelled it :'( |
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| 12:36 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 12:36 | <andythenorth> | do I need a pathname generator for spritesheets? |
| 12:36 | <_maddy> | can multiplayer games be saved and continued later, even if not played on an actual server? |
| 12:36 | <andythenorth> | or can people just concatenate foo+blah+cargo+'.png' ? |
| 12:38 | * | andythenorth suspects these questions can't be answered (yet) |
| 12:39 | <Rhamphoryncus> | _maddy: yes, you can go on a multiplayer server, save it locally, and replay it locally |
| 12:40 | <_maddy> | Rhamphoryncus: but if I'm not on a actual server, but just host a multiplayer game on my client? |
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| 12:40 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I've never tried setting up multiplayer, sorry |
| 12:42 | <andythenorth> | if I have a Pixa module, and some of my python classes are PixaFoo....should class Bar really be PixaBar (for consistency)? |
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| 12:47 | * | planetmaker has his own MP servers ;-) |
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| 13:02 | <Zuu> | I once developed my own autopilot for running 3 hour long games on a small map, but when it was ready, I realized that I don't have time to support it by beeing an active admin. So it was never opened. |
| 13:05 | <@planetmaker> | he |
| 13:08 | <sponge> | can two cities actually merge and become one? |
| 13:08 | <Zuu> | no |
| 13:08 | <sponge> | if i destroy a building of town A, can town B add a new house there? |
| 13:08 | <sponge> | and, in the long run take over an area |
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| 13:09 | <Zuu> | You can destroy all houses of town A, and have town B cover its area, but the town entity is still there. |
| 13:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there was something about when one town built on a tile, and it is destroyed, no other town will ever claim that tile |
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| 13:11 | <sponge> | guess il find out in a while |
| 13:13 | * | andythenorth seeks synonyms for 'sequence' |
| 13:13 | <andythenorth> | too much of my code is sequence = Sequence(sequence=trailersequence) |
| 13:13 | <andythenorth> | blah |
| 13:18 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I'd use seq for a variable name |
| 13:18 | -!- | lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 13:19 | <valhallasw> | andythenorth: maybe take a more descriptive name, such as something that describes what it's a sequence of |
| 13:19 | <valhallasw> | i.e. 'trailers' |
| 13:20 | <valhallasw> | or do some more refactoring to reduce the numnber of sequences ;-) |
| 13:20 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Or use more sets :D |
| 13:20 | <andythenorth> | did that already :) |
| 13:20 | <andythenorth> | fewer sequences ftw |
| 13:22 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 13:23 | <andythenorth> | dictionary just tells me my terms are already correct :P |
| 13:23 | <andythenorth> | what I'm doing is spookily close to DNA mapping (at a high level) |
| 13:23 | <andythenorth> | I have the equivalent of chromosomes mapping to gene sequences |
| 13:24 | <andythenorth> | calling my mappings 'chromosomes' is probably silly and pointlessly quirky |
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| 13:30 | <andythenorth> | abbreviations? |
| 13:30 | <andythenorth> | front_stakes_sequence_collection => front_stakes_sc ? |
| 13:33 | -!- | Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 13:33 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ |
| 13:36 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: o/ |
| 13:37 | <@Alberth> | o/ |
| 13:38 | <@Alberth> | pixa 2 finished! that was quick :) |
| 13:40 | <andythenorth> | went really quickly once I had time to start :) |
| 13:40 | <andythenorth> | it works, it makes sense |
| 13:40 | <andythenorth> | :o |
| 13:40 | <andythenorth> | it could use code review / refactoring |
| 13:41 | <andythenorth> | I need to convert my other gestalts to use it, which might show up oversights in the design |
| 13:42 | <@Alberth> | can you point me to some Python code please? |
| 13:43 | <andythenorth> | got BANDIT checked out? |
| 13:44 | <andythenorth> | or read it online, the only two files that matter are http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/changes/misc/pixel_generator/pixa.py |
| 13:44 | <andythenorth> | and http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/changes/misc/pixel_generator/gestalts/flat_trailer.py |
| 13:44 | <@Alberth> | I have it somewhere, I'll update and have a look |
| 13:44 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 13:44 | <andythenorth> | I gain nothing by making an object where a dict really does just work? |
| 13:45 | <andythenorth> | class / object /s |
| 13:45 | * | andythenorth knows a dict is an object :P |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: translators * r23999 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files): |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: french - 67 changes by OliTTD |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: greek - 7 changes by vitalblue |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: indonesian - 4 changes by prof |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv |
| 13:46 | <@Alberth> | unless you want something 'extra' (or you want 'less'), no, using a standard data structure is simpler then :) |
| 13:47 | <Rhamphoryncus> | andythenorth: dict is more robust too. A class has limitations on key names |
| 13:47 | <Rhamphoryncus> | (which won't always show up, heh) |
| 13:49 | <andythenorth> | coloursets are just dicts then |
| 13:49 | <andythenorth> | by convention |
| 13:50 | <andythenorth> | it's tempting to create a class for every entity in the pipeline :P |
| 13:51 | -!- | morphium [~4e547932@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd |
| 13:52 | <morphium> | This is driving me crazy. Can anyone, please please please, connect to "95.143.38.18" (stable 1.1.5) and check if the train running in circles IS LAGGING or not? |
| 13:52 | -!- | morphium is now known as Guest4552 |
| 13:52 | <Guest4552> | I can't find out whether that's my PC's problem, or my dedicated server's problem |
| 13:52 | <@Alberth> | look at the CPU load of both machines |
| 13:53 | <@Alberth> | if you have 1 core running at 100%, you have hit the ceiling :) |
| 13:53 | <Guest4552> | 1% on server |
| 13:53 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: throw in a few interfaces, and a factory, and you can start as a java programmer :) |
| 13:54 | <Guest4552> | I suppose I have to change my dedicated server or something |
| 13:54 | * | andythenorth considered a factory earlier :| |
| 13:54 | <Guest4552> | This just aint working :( |
| 13:55 | <Rhamphoryncus> | andythenorth: if it grows a helper method then make it a class. Easily to have it still look like a dict and thus be interchangeable |
| 13:55 | <andythenorth> | I'm working on the basis we want classes where we need a stable API (but the internals might change) and built-in entities otherwise |
| 13:55 | <Rhamphoryncus> | the "d['name'] = 42" API is perfectly reasonable for custom classes in many cases |
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| 14:03 | <bolli> | hi all... |
| 14:03 | <bolli> | i've got an unusual question |
| 14:03 | <bolli> | is there any documentation about the scenario file formats? |
| 14:03 | <Wolf01> | 'lo! |
| 14:04 | <bolli> | i can't find anything on the wiki or forums... |
| 14:04 | <+michi_cc> | Look into src/saveload/*.cpp |
| 14:05 | <bolli> | thanks, i'll look |
| 14:05 | <@planetmaker> | bolli: it changes without notice. There are 167(?) different versions, as it changes for each new variable and so on |
| 14:06 | <+michi_cc> | No idea if somebody has written more anywhere, but the scenario format is identical to the savegame format. |
| 14:07 | <+michi_cc> | planetmaker: 174 + some unknown number of minor versions. |
| 14:07 | <@planetmaker> | I didn't look it up :-) But... I guess the order of magnitude defines effort |
| 14:07 | <+michi_cc> | Probably even more I guess, as adding a new chunk doesn't necessarily require a version bump. |
| 14:07 | <@planetmaker> | hm, true |
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| 14:10 | <bolli_> | bah... my horrid internet... |
| 14:12 | <bolli_> | what i was hoping to do was create a revision control system for scenarios... |
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| 14:15 | <@Alberth> | Hi 'lf01 |
| 14:15 | <@Alberth> | bolli_: it is not a very stable format |
| 14:16 | <bolli_> | hmm thanks... |
| 14:16 | <bolli_> | is there a way to make a patch for multiplayer scenario editing? |
| 14:16 | <@planetmaker> | yes |
| 14:16 | <@Alberth> | a more useful direction would be to make a file format that is more independent of the savegame format |
| 14:16 | <@planetmaker> | you basically have to allow running the SE mode in multi player |
| 14:17 | <bolli_> | ok.... |
| 14:17 | <@planetmaker> | and make sure it's not advertised as game but as scenario editor |
| 14:17 | <@planetmaker> | acutally I'd consider that a nice thing |
| 14:17 | <bolli_> | I'm not so sure how to go about that... |
| 14:18 | <bolli_> | my strong point is web development not C++ |
| 14:18 | <@Alberth> | bolli_: you see that wrong, your biggest area of potential growth is C++ |
| 14:19 | <bolli_> | :P |
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| 14:20 | <Rhamphoryncus> | planetmaker: I want to take a gander at finishing http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2296. Can you tell me how to import http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/firs/ |
| 14:21 | <sponge> | /quit |
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| 14:21 | <andythenorth> | Rhamphoryncus: have you checked out FIRS? |
| 14:21 | <Rhamphoryncus> | yes |
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| 14:21 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 14:21 | <Rhamphoryncus> | And attempted to import it, such that hg qseries now reports "firs" |
| 14:21 | <@planetmaker> | hg qimport |
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| 14:22 | <Rhamphoryncus> | planetmaker: more specifically? |
| 14:22 | <@planetmaker> | but in principle those are normal patches. So no special treatment needed |
| 14:22 | <@planetmaker> | the order is given by the naming in which they must be applied |
| 14:23 | <Rhamphoryncus> | So.. manually copy the url of every patch file in the directory? |
| 14:23 | <@planetmaker> | you may familiarize yourself with how mercurial queues work |
| 14:23 | -!- | Chris_Booth[ph]_ [~chrisboot@31.94.152.98] has joined #openttd |
| 14:23 | <@planetmaker> | there's no standard way to download the files, no there isn't |
| 14:23 | <Rhamphoryncus> | oi |
| 14:23 | <@planetmaker> | they were uploaded manually after all, too |
| 14:23 | <@planetmaker> | vi scp ... :-) |
| 14:23 | -!- | Tintinfan [~Bruce@host-78-150-185-16.as13285.net] has joined #openttd |
| 14:23 | <@planetmaker> | the whole patch queue dir |
| 14:24 | <andythenorth> | http://www.commercialmotor.com/big-lorry-blog/can-t-see-the-wood-for-the-trees-well-this-driver-obviously-can-t |
| 14:24 | <@planetmaker> | you could try things like curl or wget |
| 14:24 | <Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 14:24 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I just need the 5 in that dir? |
| 14:25 | <bolli_> | its vietnam, the road system works on biggest=right of way... |
| 14:25 | -!- | Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@client-86-31-132-172.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] |
| 14:25 | -!- | Chris_Booth[ph]_ is now known as Chris_Booth[ph] |
| 14:25 | <bolli_> | he doesn't need to be able to see, people just have to get out of his way... :P |
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| 14:27 | <@planetmaker> | Rhamphoryncus: you could put ALL those files in .hg/patches |
| 14:27 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I just used hg qimport on each URL |
| 14:27 | <@planetmaker> | and enable mq in your hgrc |
| 14:27 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Already enabled it |
| 14:28 | <@Alberth> | just edit the 'series' file :p |
| 14:28 | <@planetmaker> | then, if you had them in .hg/patches (relative to FIRS root), you could use hg qpush |
| 14:28 | <Rhamphoryncus> | .. how would pushing help? Especially once I already downloaded them? |
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| 14:29 | <@planetmaker> | learn about mq :-) |
| 14:29 | <Rhamphoryncus> | :P |
| 14:29 | <@planetmaker> | if you imported them already, of course not |
| 14:29 | <@Alberth> | qpush != push |
| 14:29 | <@planetmaker> | ^^ also |
| 14:30 | <Rhamphoryncus> | But .hg/patches was useful. I was able to delete the garbage "patch" it created when I previous attempted to import the dir |
| 14:30 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Obviously, but they should be similar in concept |
| 14:30 | <Rhamphoryncus> | oh right, they're not |
| 14:31 | <@Alberth> | not by a long shot :) |
| 14:31 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Yeah, I don't exactly feel responsible for that mistake |
| 14:33 | -!- | cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd |
| 14:33 | <cyph3r> | SMS co ti přišla odpovědí? |
| 14:33 | <cyph3r> | Damn, wrong window. |
| 14:33 | <@planetmaker> | quite |
| 14:35 | <V453000> | czech bastards ^^ |
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| 14:48 | * | andythenorth -> beer |
| 14:49 | <SpComb> | mm beer |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: so my questions include... |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | - should I rename Spritesheet to PixaSpritesheet? |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | - should I create a class for colourset (probably overkill) |
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| 14:51 | <andythenorth> | - can you think of an easy way for authors to specify a colourset when a sequence uses numbers, not variables for colour indexes |
| 14:53 | <@SmatZ> | beer! |
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| 15:02 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: what is a colourset in the code? |
| 15:03 | <@Alberth> | oh, the cc_1/2 perhaps |
| 15:03 | <andythenorth> | type is dict, purpose is to match colours (or vars) <-> indexes |
| 15:03 | <andythenorth> | I considered making it a type of transform, but it deserves a special case |
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| 15:04 | <@Alberth> | I don't understand the question yet |
| 15:05 | <andythenorth> | ah ok |
| 15:06 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 15:06 | <andythenorth> | so the pixarender method expects a colourset |
| 15:07 | <@Alberth> | 'cc_1' : dict ( deck_colour = 115, company_colour = 202, ), <-- this thing |
| 15:07 | <andythenorth> | which is just a dict, e.g cc_1 in coloursets |
| 15:08 | <andythenorth> | yup |
| 15:08 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 15:08 | <@Alberth> | I was wondering why they are in a dict :) |
| 15:08 | <andythenorth> | it was a convenient way to get it working ;) |
| 15:09 | <andythenorth> | but I wonder if they should be a Pixa class |
| 15:09 | <andythenorth> | as the renderer kind of depends on them |
| 15:09 | <andythenorth> | currently my code suggest you could pass colourset=None, but you can't :P |
| 15:10 | <andythenorth> | they compose a mapping of vars:colour indexes, with an id which is used for filenames |
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| 15:12 | <@Alberth> | yeah, it would seem better to split those concepts, imho |
| 15:13 | <andythenorth> | I'm happy to |
| 15:13 | <andythenorth> | no inspiration struck me yet for it though :P |
| 15:14 | <andythenorth> | coloursets or such also need to be able to remap colours for a sequence that's loaded from a bitmap |
| 15:19 | <@Alberth> | http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/020_setname_colourset_split.patch something like this perhaps? |
| 15:19 | <@Alberth> | http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/010_whitespace_fixex_mostly.patch some white-space & other cleanup :) |
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| 15:20 | <andythenorth> | I'm never sure about whitespace in args etc |
| 15:20 | <andythenorth> | PEP-8 kind of doesn't guide much |
| 15:22 | <@Alberth> | this is mostly trailing white-space removal :) |
| 15:22 | <andythenorth> | ah |
| 15:22 | <andythenorth> | I can't get the patch to apply with p1 or -0 |
| 15:22 | <andythenorth> | p0 * |
| 15:22 | <@Alberth> | -p1 should work |
| 15:22 | <@Alberth> | from the root of bandit |
| 15:23 | <andythenorth> | yup ok |
| 15:23 | <andythenorth> | works |
| 15:23 | <@Alberth> | a/misc/pixel_generator/gestalts/flat_trailer.py <- -p1 means "drop "a/" |
| 15:24 | <@Alberth> | and if you are in 'pixel_generator', -p3 should work :) |
| 15:24 | <andythenorth> | :) |
| 15:26 | <@Alberth> | ie it is just the number of directories stripped from the start |
| 15:26 | <@Alberth> | I thought you wanted to compute the numbers before going to the renderer |
| 15:28 | <andythenorth> | I found reasons that might not work |
| 15:28 | <andythenorth> | can't remember what |
| 15:28 | -!- | appe is now known as NGC3982 |
| 15:28 | <andythenorth> | probably could have found a way around it, but this method seems to work fine |
| 15:31 | <@Alberth> | self.id = id doesn't seem very much used :) line 111 of flat_trailer.py |
| 15:31 | <andythenorth> | think it's redundant |
| 15:32 | <andythenorth> | yup |
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| 15:33 | <andythenorth> | ah, I remember why I don't apply the transforms earlier |
| 15:34 | <andythenorth> | if colours are set by vars, the transforms will fail unless the colourset has been applied first |
| 15:34 | * | Zuu_ sends a great thank to the swap file of Vim. (managed to accidently hit the powerswitch of my computer :-p ) |
| 15:35 | <@Alberth> | Bram does accept donations :) |
| 15:35 | <bolli_> | ouch Zuu.. |
| 15:35 | <@planetmaker> | :-D |
| 15:35 | <bolli_> | i loathe Vim :P |
| 15:35 | <@planetmaker> | vim is great. If you have xterm only |
| 15:35 | <@planetmaker> | or for a quick edit |
| 15:35 | <@Alberth> | it is so much more useful than any other editor :) |
| 15:36 | <bolli_> | i just find it impossible to use... |
| 15:36 | <@Alberth> | bolli_: it is, for the first 2 months :) |
| 15:36 | <bolli_> | well, i don't have 2 months worth of patience :P |
| 15:36 | <Zuu_> | Also good for coding programs up to the size when you can keep their structure in mind. |
| 15:36 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 15:36 | <@Alberth> | but after that you are so much more productive |
| 15:37 | <andythenorth> | I could push the colourset into the sequence earlier in the pipeline |
| 15:37 | <andythenorth> | not sure much is gained though |
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| 15:38 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: you indeed need to apply the colourset before transforming as far as I can see, but that is the case no matter when/where you apply the transformations |
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| 15:38 | <@Alberth> | Zuu_: at an appropiate level of abstraction that always works :) |
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| 15:39 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: but what was the question now? |
| 15:39 | <Zuu> | So.., now I can pick up my work again with a fleet management GS :-) |
| 15:39 | <@planetmaker> | fleet managment GS? |
| 15:40 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: I thought you wanted to compute the numbers before going to the renderer <- you made me doubt my current method ;) |
| 15:40 | <Zuu> | A GS that will add or remove a train/truck for your line to adopt with the production changes when you are busy working on the network. |
| 15:40 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: I just ask questions :p |
| 15:41 | <andythenorth> | I'm going to leave it as is for now - might change it later though |
| 15:41 | <andythenorth> | I'll try the coloursets patch first |
| 15:41 | <@Alberth> | Zuu: for all companies? great, finally the game can play itself :) |
| 15:41 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: ok, bye |
| 15:41 | <andythenorth> | thanks ;) |
| 15:42 | <@Alberth> | yw |
| 15:42 | <Zuu> | Alberth: Yes, for all companies. But only for stations which has a special key in their name. |
| 15:42 | * | Alberth ponders making a trivial AI program :p |
| 15:42 | <Zuu> | Alberth: Why not? |
| 15:42 | <Zuu> | :-) |
| 15:43 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: make an AI generator ;) |
| 15:43 | <@Alberth> | pondering is much nicer than actually doing it :) |
| 15:43 | <andythenorth> | not always |
| 15:43 | <andythenorth> | sometimes the pondering is the hard part :( |
| 15:43 | <andythenorth> | code is relatively easy, it has rules |
| 15:43 | <@Alberth> | andy I am building enough generator at work atm |
| 15:44 | <andythenorth> | generator generator! |
| 15:44 | <andythenorth> | sorry :P |
| 15:44 | <@Alberth> | it does use meta-programming yes :D |
| 15:44 | <@Alberth> | and runs into Java limitations w.r.t. generics :) |
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| 15:48 | <Rubidium> | you mean not being able to add to Collection<? extends foo> ? ;) |
| 15:49 | <@Alberth> | more that new T[n] with T a type parameter not working :) |
| 15:50 | <@Alberth> | of course, that is because "Java generics are superior to C++ templates", according to oracle :) |
| 15:51 | <bolli_> | right... |
| 15:51 | <bolli_> | i have a noobish question now... |
| 15:51 | <bolli_> | i'm compiling in MS C++2008 and i'm getting errors... |
| 15:51 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: colourset patch makes sense |
| 15:51 | <bolli_> | the source is straight from SVN |
| 15:52 | <bolli_> | and i've included the bits that need it |
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| 15:54 | <Rubidium> | could you be more specific about "errors" |
| 15:55 | <bolli_> | mostly missing files... |
| 15:55 | <bolli_> | c:\users\sam\documents\openttd\source\s\src\language.h(17) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'unicode/coll.h': No such file or directory |
| 15:55 | <bolli_> | ..\src\heightmap.cpp(39) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'png.h': No such file or directory |
| 15:55 | <bolli_> | that sort of thing... |
| 15:55 | <Rubidium> | sound like you haven't installed the "useful" package with all build dependencies |
| 15:56 | <Rubidium> | http://wiki.openttd.org/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008_Express_Editions |
| 15:56 | <bolli_> | i'm following that |
| 15:57 | <bolli_> | i've added the items into options -> VC++directories |
| 15:58 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: I hve not tested it, but you can have an empty dict now |
| 15:59 | <andythenorth> | I'll test |
| 15:59 | <Rubidium> | bolli_: are you sure you set the right folders for the incude files? |
| 15:59 | <bolli_> | fairly... |
| 15:59 | <bolli_> | its probably me being stupid... |
| 16:00 | <@Alberth> | hmm, does "unload and leave empty" refuse to unload cargo at the station it was loaded from? |
| 16:00 | <Rubidium> | I can't really give in depth help as I'm not using Windows |
| 16:00 | <andythenorth> | well empty dict appears to fail correctly |
| 16:00 | <andythenorth> | i.e. vars in my sequence aren't substituted, so that blows up |
| 16:01 | <bolli_> | i prefer using Linux for jobs like this :p |
| 16:01 | <bolli_> | its just not always useful for playing it on windows... |
| 16:01 | <bolli_> | bah, bbl |
| 16:01 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: well, you could do that before as well, of course, but you had two forms of 'colourset' which caused some confusion. |
| 16:03 | <andythenorth> | oh |
| 16:03 | <andythenorth> | oops |
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| 16:04 | <andythenorth> | I think it's time to convert the other gestalts |
| 16:04 | <andythenorth> | I'm running out of 'todo' items :) |
| 16:08 | <@Alberth> | oh dear :) |
| 16:08 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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| 16:10 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: I still need people / employees / benches / trashbins / trash / shops / stalls / rollercoaster sprites :) |
| 16:11 | <andythenorth> | mostly generatable :P |
| 16:11 | <andythenorth> | open theme park? :D |
| 16:11 | <@planetmaker> | FreeRCT |
| 16:12 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 16:12 | <andythenorth> | "open lotus turbo esprit" would be nice |
| 16:12 | <andythenorth> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_(series) |
| 16:14 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: got example art anywhere? |
| 16:16 | <@Alberth> | www.freerct.org, then redirect to the googlecode project trunk/sprites_src for what exists in the project |
| 16:16 | <@Alberth> | otherwise any RCT site :) |
| 16:17 | <@Alberth> | http://www.netc.org/classrooms@work/classrooms/middleteam/learning/rctable.html |
| 16:18 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: looks like it's using CGI models? |
| 16:19 | <@Alberth> | http://www.chrissawyergames.com/feature5.htm |
| 16:20 | <@Alberth> | so far it does yes |
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| 16:21 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: there actually open source cars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OScar_%28open_source_car%29 |
| 16:21 | <Elukka> | heh, i've heard a bunch of people in various places say they wish there was an openttd equivalent for RCT |
| 16:22 | <andythenorth> | it could be time to get a 3D printer :P |
| 16:22 | <@Alberth> | Elukka: there are also people saying there should be an open source variant of locomotion |
| 16:22 | <@Alberth> | Elukka: point is that 'saying' is cheap. 'doing' is what counts. |
| 16:23 | * | andythenorth wonders if lomo sprites are 32bpp? |
| 16:23 | <Elukka> | i was saying there would be an audience for it |
| 16:23 | <Elukka> | people would like to play it |
| 16:23 | * | andythenorth goes back to doing - sprite generator |
| 16:23 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: the engine is based on RCT2, so I'd doubt it |
| 16:23 | <andythenorth> | Elukka: you could be a sprite generator customer! |
| 16:23 | * | andythenorth is out to make a sale |
| 16:24 | <@Alberth> | Elukka: I would too, but there was none, so I ended up writing one first :p |
| 16:24 | * | andythenorth needs a bitmap loader class |
| 16:24 | <andythenorth> | which is probably vanilla PIL, apart from the bit to make it a sequence |
| 16:24 | <@Alberth> | PIL.Image ??? :) |
| 16:24 | <andythenorth> | see above :P |
| 16:25 | <@Alberth> | ideas to mark (0,0) ? |
| 16:25 | <andythenorth> | not sure yet |
| 16:25 | <Elukka> | andy: i could! |
| 16:25 | <andythenorth> | I'll see if it's actually a problem |
| 16:25 | <Elukka> | maybe |
| 16:25 | <andythenorth> | I don't mark 0,0 for a sequence either |
| 16:25 | <andythenorth> | it might just work |
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| 16:26 | <andythenorth> | I'm assuming I'll crop tightly first |
| 16:26 | <andythenorth> | RCT graphics are odd, some are really pretty, some are muddy |
| 16:26 | <andythenorth> | whereas lomo is just muddy |
| 16:26 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: in the sequence you actually give the coords yourself :) |
| 16:27 | <Elukka> | lomo has an ugly palette |
| 16:27 | <andythenorth> | I'm assuming 0,0 is the top-left of the cropped image |
| 16:27 | <Elukka> | i like how RCT looks though |
| 16:27 | <andythenorth> | although that conflicts with how the renderer currently operates :| |
| 16:27 | <andythenorth> | ach - I'll try it and see |
| 16:27 | <andythenorth> | pondering ~= procrastination |
| 16:27 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: perhaps it's a mix of manual and generated pixels |
| 16:29 | <andythenorth> | the mineshaft in this image sucks - whereas the large coaster is awesome http://www.chrissawyergames.com/feature5_11.htm |
| 16:29 | <Rhamphoryncus> | nmlc: "sprites/nml/industries/../templates/check_availability.pnml", line 32: Unrecognized identifier 'CB_RESULT_IND_PROBABILITY_FROM_PROPERTY' encountered |
| 16:29 | <Rhamphoryncus> | That's when I run make in firs |
| 16:29 | <andythenorth> | got nml tip? |
| 16:30 | <Elukka> | oh yeah some objects do look muddy |
| 16:30 | <Rhamphoryncus> | umm |
| 16:30 | <Elukka> | i see what you mean |
| 16:30 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I think I grabbed the stable |
| 16:30 | <Rhamphoryncus> | 0.2.3 |
| 16:31 | <@Alberth> | Rhamphoryncus: nml is moving quite fast |
| 16:31 | <andythenorth> | Rhamphoryncus: FIRS trunk tip builds for me with nml tip |
| 16:31 | <Rhamphoryncus> | alright |
| 16:31 | <andythenorth> | this is quite awesome: http://www.chrissawyergames.com/feature5_5.htm |
| 16:32 | <andythenorth> | is it RCT where you can kill the coaster riders? |
| 16:32 | <andythenorth> | or was that theme park? |
| 16:33 | <TWerkhoven[l]> | you mean drop in the water? |
| 16:33 | <@Alberth> | you can crash coasters |
| 16:33 | <@Alberth> | oh, dropping in the water is also deadly |
| 16:33 | <andythenorth> | go too fast, they fall out, iirc? |
| 16:33 | <TWerkhoven[l]> | think that was theme park |
| 16:34 | <@Alberth> | never seen that, but my coasters were always 'nice' to the public :) |
| 16:34 | <@Alberth> | and it does not sound like something I want to implement :p |
| 16:35 | <Rhamphoryncus> | That time it built. Thanks andy, Alberth |
| 16:35 | <@Alberth> | http://www.chrissawyergames.com/features.htm <-- there are a few more rct-topics |
| 16:36 | <andythenorth> | http://www.chrissawyergames.com/feature3.htm |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | the conversion of the 3D models to paletted sprites has not always gone well |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | I guess that's why some are muddy |
| 16:37 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Wait, RCT is still sprite-based? |
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| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | they're dithered from a limited palette, and are losing contrast |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | even lomo is sprite based isn't it? |
| 16:37 | <Rhamphoryncus> | That's.. very interesting. |
| 16:39 | <@Alberth> | Rhamphoryncus: 1 and 2 are |
| 16:39 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: does openrct have full 32bpp support? |
| 16:39 | <@Alberth> | and lomo too |
| 16:39 | <andythenorth> | seems that nice renders might be the way to go... |
| 16:39 | <andythenorth> | especially wrt capturing the original style |
| 16:40 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: no idea, I program freerct :D but currently just 8bpp, just like the rct's |
| 16:40 | <andythenorth> | open / free /s :P |
| 16:40 | <andythenorth> | anyway /me is procrastinating and should write code |
| 16:40 | <andythenorth> | I found todo items :| |
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| 16:40 | <Rhamphoryncus> | rct is 8-bit too? o.O |
| 16:41 | <andythenorth> | are global constants allowed in python? |
| 16:41 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Geeze, I just assumed it was ugly because they chose that style *g* |
| 16:41 | <Rhamphoryncus> | andythenorth: yes, but they're really just module attributes. Not implicitly shared between modules |
| 16:41 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: 32bpp is definitely an option |
| 16:42 | <andythenorth> | so I can't define a global in module a, import module a to module b and have my global just appear? |
| 16:42 | <andythenorth> | I have to use a.myglobal |
| 16:42 | <@Alberth> | Rhamphoryncus: CS is stuck to the same engine at every game he made |
| 16:42 | <Rhamphoryncus> | You can do "from a import myglobal", which is really just the same as "import a; myglobal = a.myglobal" |
| 16:42 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Alberth: huh |
| 16:43 | <@Alberth> | depends on the import, but generally it is recommended to include the module name when referencing imported symbols |
| 16:43 | <andythenorth> | Rhamphoryncus: in which case I don't need to declare is global :P |
| 16:43 | <andythenorth> | I'll reference the module name |
| 16:44 | <@Alberth> | Rhamphoryncus: the ttdx / rct / lomo engines are all the same, just with some evolutionary (small) steps |
| 16:44 | <Rhamphoryncus> | andythenorth: if you actually mean a constant then this is fine. If it's something like an int then you're making copies of the variable and modifying one won't update the other |
| 16:44 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Alberth: *nods* |
| 16:44 | <andythenorth> | I do mean a constant |
| 16:44 | <@Alberth> | constants do not exist |
| 16:45 | <@Alberth> | just variables that you never assign |
| 16:45 | <andythenorth> | I don't mean a constant |
| 16:45 | <andythenorth> | :P |
| 16:45 | <andythenorth> | SPRITEROW_HEIGHT = 40 is same everywhere |
| 16:45 | <andythenorth> | defining it in every gestalt file seems obviously silly :) |
| 16:45 | <@Alberth> | you can do from a import * which dumps all global names of a into the module doing the import |
| 16:45 | <Zuu> | If you clone a vehicle that belongs to a group, is the clone automatically added to the same group? |
| 16:46 | <@Alberth> | Zuu: tias :) |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | I'm just using it now as common.SPRITEROW_HEIGHT in my code |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | and importing common |
| 16:46 | <Zuu> | Alberth: tias? |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | then it's obvious where it originates |
| 16:46 | <@Alberth> | that is much saner w.r.t. maintenance |
| 16:46 | <@Alberth> | Zuu: try it and see |
| 16:46 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Yeah, you can use "from a import *". That's generally frowned upon because it makes it hard to track down where a variable comes from |
| 16:46 | <Rhamphoryncus> | But if you had, say, a constants module, it wouldn't be as bad |
| 16:47 | <@Alberth> | not to mention overwriting other names without warning etc |
| 16:47 | <Rhamphoryncus> | (also less likely to produce silent name conflicts) |
| 16:47 | <Rhamphoryncus> | ^_^ |
| 16:47 | <andythenorth> | python mostly tells you the answer once you try something |
| 16:47 | <andythenorth> | mostly |
| 16:47 | <@Alberth> | :) |
| 16:48 | <Zuu> | Great it works. Then I don't have to figure out where the API function to add a vehicle to a group is hidden. |
| 16:48 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Hmm. Learning FIRS/nml by browsing a random file feels like learning how a car works by examining a seat buckle |
| 16:49 | <@Alberth> | good night all |
| 16:49 | <andythenorth> | Rhamphoryncus: it's an order of magnitude less complex than openttd ;) |
| 16:49 | <andythenorth> | bye Alberth |
| 16:49 | <@planetmaker> | g'night Alberth |
| 16:49 | <@Alberth> | but there are more random files to browse :p |
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| 16:50 | <andythenorth> | Rhamphoryncus: currently there is a small deficit - I don't know how FIRS works either ;) |
| 16:51 | <Rhamphoryncus> | LOL |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | I can tell you the structure of the set though |
| 16:51 | <Rhamphoryncus> | The use of CPP spells doom |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | and I can reverse engineer the code |
| 16:51 | <Rhamphoryncus> | (doomy doomy doom) |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | I just don't *know* how it works |
| 16:52 | <Rhamphoryncus> | You take one piece, figure it out, make the changes, then forget again? |
| 16:52 | <andythenorth> | no |
| 16:52 | <andythenorth> | I make the changes I can make, release, and wait for other people to work on it ;) |
| 16:52 | <Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 16:52 | <andythenorth> | I keep intending to learn how it works |
| 16:53 | * | Rhamphoryncus feels like he took the bait |
| 16:53 | <andythenorth> | but the road to hell is paved with good intentions etc :P |
| 16:54 | <@Yexo> | Rhamphoryncus: if you want to learn NML than FIRS is not a good example |
| 16:54 | <@Yexo> | it's a very cool project, but not easy to learn from |
| 16:54 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Yexo: I want to improve FIRS |
| 16:54 | <Rhamphoryncus> | and I'm insane |
| 16:54 | <@Yexo> | in that case you should still start with a general NML tutorial |
| 16:54 | <@Yexo> | get a feel for how it all works, than dive in the FIRS code |
| 16:54 | <Rhamphoryncus> | probably |
| 16:54 | <frosch123> | oh, just noticed... i am featured on google today :) |
| 16:55 | <Rhamphoryncus> | wha? |
| 16:55 | <andythenorth> | lol at frosch123 :) |
| 16:55 | <andythenorth> | Rhamphoryncus: the nml aspects of FIRS are straightforward |
| 16:56 | <andythenorth> | and you're working with industry production code which is also straightforward |
| 16:56 | <andythenorth> | you know how CPP variadic macros work? |
| 16:57 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Well I have used and written t hem. |
| 16:57 | <andythenorth> | ok, you're all set then |
| 16:57 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Didn't say I knew how they work ;) |
| 16:58 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Wait, I can't copy you, I have to understand it myself! |
| 16:58 | <andythenorth> | as long as you recognise them, it's fine |
| 16:58 | <andythenorth> | you kind of need to know the newgrf industry spec |
| 16:59 | <andythenorth> | but that's available |
| 16:59 | <andythenorth> | specifically you want to read about the production cb |
| 16:59 | * | Rhamphoryncus nods |
| 17:00 | <@planetmaker> | called produce |
| 17:00 | <andythenorth> | then you just need check_primary_production_level.pnml |
| 17:00 | <andythenorth> | and produce_primary.pnml |
| 17:00 | <@planetmaker> | uhm... for supplies? |
| 17:00 | <@planetmaker> | that's secondary |
| 17:01 | <andythenorth> | for input? |
| 17:02 | <@planetmaker> | production of a secondary depends surely on its input |
| 17:02 | <@planetmaker> | but check_primary_production_level is geared towards primary industries |
| 17:02 | <@planetmaker> | as is produce_primary |
| 17:02 | <andythenorth> | oh |
| 17:02 | * | andythenorth is confused |
| 17:02 | <andythenorth> | where are supplies handled now? |
| 17:03 | <@planetmaker> | hm... sorry, I'm confused |
| 17:03 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 17:03 | <@planetmaker> | You#re of course right: Primaries DO consume the supplies |
| 17:03 | <@planetmaker> | not secondaries |
| 17:03 | <@planetmaker> | sorry :-) |
| 17:03 | <andythenorth> | np :) |
| 17:04 | <andythenorth> | Rhamphoryncus: you'll need to know about the various FIRS parameters for primaries as well |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | meh |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | is there ever a case for using the windows palette? |
| 17:05 | <Rhamphoryncus> | This is nml with CPP macros wrapped around it? So I'll need to ask here about the syntax, not look in the nml tutorial? |
| 17:06 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth: there's no case (anymore) for it |
| 17:06 | <@planetmaker> | it's purely hysterical raisins |
| 17:06 | <@Yexo> | the cpp preprocessor is run over it first to create firs.nml, which is then parsed by the nml compiler to firs.grf |
| 17:06 | <andythenorth> | the brittrains project appears to be using windows palette |
| 17:06 | <@Yexo> | andythenorth: ttdpatch users with a windows base set |
| 17:06 | <andythenorth> | I might give them the good news |
| 17:06 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Yexo: *nods* |
| 17:06 | <@Yexo> | but nml 0.3 is not compatible with that |
| 17:07 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 17:07 | <@planetmaker> | it's not compatible with that in many ways |
| 17:07 | <@Yexo> | or rather: ttdpatch is not compatible with the grfs produced by nml ;P |
| 17:07 | <@planetmaker> | hehe :-) |
| 17:07 | <andythenorth> | DOS palette is now default for ottd? |
| 17:07 | <@planetmaker> | yes |
| 17:07 | <@planetmaker> | internally all windows paletted newgrfs are converted to DOS prior to use |
| 17:08 | <@Yexo> | actually that's not 100% true |
| 17:09 | <andythenorth> | before I do something stupid - this looks like the DOS palette? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2458/palette_key.png |
| 17:09 | <@Yexo> | openttd's internal palette is neither the newgrf dos palette nor the newgrf windows palette |
| 17:09 | <@Yexo> | andythenorth: I always use this page as reference: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/PalettesAndCoordinates#Palettes |
| 17:09 | <frosch123> | where do we still differ? |
| 17:09 | <@Yexo> | so yes, that looks like the dos palette |
| 17:09 | <@Yexo> | frosch123: oh, it's now completely the same? |
| 17:10 | <frosch123> | i think we are completely dos |
| 17:10 | <frosch123> | except maybe for the undefined bits |
| 17:10 | <frosch123> | i.e. dos has only 6 bits per colour channel, while we use 8 |
| 17:11 | <frosch123> | so the hue is slightly different for some |
| 17:11 | <frosch123> | including the grey scale |
| 17:13 | -!- | cmircea [~cmircea@86.124.217.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 17:14 | <Rhamphoryncus> | ©2011 Derp |
| 17:15 | <andythenorth> | Rhamphoryncus: for the code you're trying to change, you can apply 'iceberg' |
| 17:15 | <Rhamphoryncus> | NFO is not a programming language because it's hex editing? Errr.. |
| 17:15 | <andythenorth> | 90% of FIRS you don't need to worry about ;) |
| 17:16 | <@Yexo> | Rhamphoryncus: who says that? |
| 17:16 | <andythenorth> | ^^ where did you get that witty line? |
| 17:16 | <Rhamphoryncus> | http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial/NML_Syntax |
| 17:17 | <andythenorth> | oh well |
| 17:17 | <andythenorth> | foobar is mostly write, he just slipped up there for once ;) |
| 17:17 | <andythenorth> | write / right |
| 17:17 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Speaking of hex editing, I should report a bug against NARS: the grasshopper is bugged. It doesn't have the 65535 HP I remember from railroad tycoon ;) |
| 17:18 | <andythenorth> | see what pikka says about that :P |
| 17:18 | * | andythenorth has procrastinated brilliantly this evening |
| 17:18 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I can't be the only one that did that, can I? |
| 17:19 | <Rubidium> | andythenorth: there are many more in this channel that have succeeded better in procrastination |
| 17:19 | <Rubidium> | they even postponed writing something here |
| 17:19 | <Rubidium> | *if* only they would have postponed joining the channel ;) |
| 17:19 | <andythenorth> | :P |
| 17:20 | <andythenorth> | how hard can this code business be anyway? |
| 17:20 | * | andythenorth tries |
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| 17:29 | <frosch123> | i guess most in here are busy with porting ottd to a web browser |
| 17:31 | <Rhamphoryncus> | frosch123: they have to port it to pascal first, then write a pascal to python compiler, then use pypy to compile that to javascript |
| 17:32 | <Rhamphoryncus> | (I think pypy dropped that feature, so it'll have to be revived) |
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| 17:38 | <andythenorth> | is this evil? 'tank_colour#-1' < then split('#') to get a var which evaluates to a number, the second part of the split being then added to the number |
| 17:38 | <Rhamphoryncus> | yes :) |
| 17:38 | <andythenorth> | so (-4, 4, 'tank_colour', -2), |
| 17:38 | <andythenorth> | is better |
| 17:39 | <andythenorth> | where the last element is the shift |
| 17:39 | <andythenorth> | and it's optional |
| 17:39 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Evil will always triumph because good is dumb |
| 17:39 | * | andythenorth hates lucky dip tuples and lists |
| 17:39 | <andythenorth> | tell me what those numbers mean |
| 17:39 | <andythenorth> | or where I should document it :P |
| 17:39 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I'd use a class |
| 17:39 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Foo('tank_colour#-1') is okay |
| 17:40 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Of course Foo('tank_colour', -1) works just as well |
| 17:40 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 17:40 | <andythenorth> | you took the words out of my mouth :P |
| 17:41 | <andythenorth> | this definitely smells (-4, 4, 'tank_colour', -2) |
| 17:41 | <andythenorth> | and so would a dict |
| 17:41 | <Rhamphoryncus> | And if tank_colour is meant to refer to a variable, not a constant, then have it stash the name 'tank_colour' and look it up later |
| 17:41 | <Rhamphoryncus> | yeah |
| 17:41 | <andythenorth> | that would help a lot actually |
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| 17:42 | <Rhamphoryncus> | If it's a colour *reference* then treat it as a reference |
| 17:42 | <andythenorth> | it's a var, evaluated at render time |
| 17:43 | <andythenorth> | hence why it's string, not var :P |
| 17:43 | <Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 17:43 | <andythenorth> | I use it as a dict key |
| 17:43 | <andythenorth> | but it's stinky |
| 17:43 | <Rhamphoryncus> | the name? With the -2? |
| 17:44 | <andythenorth> | the -2 is applied to whatever the result is from the lookup |
| 17:44 | <Rhamphoryncus> | ah |
| 17:44 | <andythenorth> | colourset['tank_colour'] - 2 |
| 17:44 | <andythenorth> | or so |
| 17:44 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I was going to say it's easy to make a class usable as a dict key |
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| 17:45 | <andythenorth> | that I had to do this also smelt funny |
| 17:45 | <andythenorth> | if len(i) >= 4: |
| 17:45 | <andythenorth> | colourshift = i[3] |
| 17:45 | <andythenorth> | when evaluating tuples that may not have the shift value |
| 17:45 | <Rhamphoryncus> | eww, yes :) |
| 17:45 | <andythenorth> | an object can do it cleanly |
| 17:45 | <Rhamphoryncus> | ayup |
| 17:46 | <andythenorth> | tomorrow's problem |
| 17:46 | <andythenorth> | or today's problem, deferred :p |
| 17:46 | <valhallasw> | andythenorth: the 'pythonic' version would be try: colourshift = i[3] except IndexError: colourshift = 0 |
| 17:46 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Eh, exceptions are overrated for that stuff |
| 17:46 | <andythenorth> | yup |
| 17:46 | <valhallasw> | yeah, I don't find it much clearer |
| 17:46 | <andythenorth> | by moving this to an object, I can also get rid of: |
| 17:46 | <andythenorth> | try: |
| 17:46 | <andythenorth> | point.colour + 1 |
| 17:47 | <Rhamphoryncus> | It's easier to ask forgiveness than ask permission.. except when permission is easier. |
| 17:47 | <valhallasw> | if would be nice to have the dict version |
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| 17:47 | <valhallasw> | {}.get('a', 'b') = 'b' |
| 17:47 | <valhallasw> | or getdefault, I always forget which one is which |
| 17:47 | <andythenorth> | setdefault is my favourite |
| 17:47 | <andythenorth> | 'the oddly named method' |
| 17:48 | <valhallasw> | ah yea, that one. list = data.setdefault('key', []) |
| 17:48 | <andythenorth> | as it doesn't actually set anything but the value returned |
| 17:48 | <andythenorth> | iirc |
| 17:48 | <andythenorth> | dict remains unmodified |
| 17:48 | <valhallasw> | no |
| 17:48 | <valhallasw> | if data['key'] exists, it's equivalent to list = data['key'] |
| 17:48 | <frosch123> | night |
| 17:48 | <valhallasw> | if it doesn't exist, it's equivalent to list = data['key'] = <given value> |
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| 17:49 | <andythenorth> | moi aussi |
| 17:49 | <andythenorth> | -> bed |
| 17:49 | <andythenorth> | good night |
| 17:49 | <Rhamphoryncus> | cya andy |
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| 18:24 | <Nat_aS> | hey I have a question |
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| 18:31 | <Zuu> | @get 3 |
| 18:31 | <@DorpsGek> | Zuu: Don't ask to ask, just ask |
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| 18:32 | <Nat_aS> | oh yeah |
| 18:33 | <Nat_aS> | sorry bout that, anyways, how does the upgrade order in the veichile list work? |
| 18:33 | <Nat_aS> | when does it take effect? |
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| 18:33 | <Nat_aS> | can it be forced? |
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| 18:33 | <Nat_aS> | I like to feel like I am doing things myself, but doing it by hand is really complicated |
| 18:34 | <Zuu> | If you have added a replacement order, you can then select to send all vehicles to depot if you want to enforce it. |
| 18:34 | <Nat_aS> | is there a minimum ballance for it to work? |
| 18:34 | <Zuu> | However, all vehicles that are in subject for replacement will visit their depot as soon as it gets there. |
| 18:34 | <Nat_aS> | like it wont spend more than half your money? |
| 18:35 | <Zuu> | So usually it is not a good idea to force all vehicles to depot as that will include also vehicles with no replace order. |
| 18:35 | <Zuu> | Yes, there is one in advanced settings. |
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| 18:55 | <Rhamphoryncus> | planetmaker: Can I bounce something off you regarding farmsup/engsup? |
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| --- | Log | closed Thu Mar 01 00:00:27 2012 |
