Back to Home / #openttd / 2012 / 03 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-03-20

---Logopened Tue Mar 20 00:00:00 2012
00:29-!-xiong [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:40-!-Rhamphoryncus [] has joined #openttd
00:48-!-tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
00:54-!-tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:55-!-Rhamphoryncus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:56-!-tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
00:56-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
01:01-!-tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:02-!-tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
01:08-!-tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:35-!-xiong [] has joined #openttd
01:37-!-tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
01:37-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
01:43-!-tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:50-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
01:54-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
01:56-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
01:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
02:01-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:02-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
02:03-!-xiong [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:04-!-mahmoud [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:05-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:06-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
02:13-!-KouDy1 [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
02:13-!-KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:15-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:16-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
02:19-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:22-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
02:23-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
02:24<Pikka>good morning andy
02:24-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@] has joined #openttd
02:25-!-Prof_Frink [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:25-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:25-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
02:28<andythenorth>monsieur bird
02:29<andythenorth>sent you BANDIT
02:29<andythenorth>two trucks, available 1960 ish
02:29<andythenorth>and lots more in nouveau colours
02:30-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:30-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
02:31<Pikka>are they 6 or 8 wide in the | view?
02:31<Pikka>'cause I'm going with 6 :)
02:31*andythenorth looks
02:32<andythenorth>seems to be 8
02:33<Pikka>ooh, flashy trailers :)
02:33<andythenorth>the grf seems to lie about the palette currently
02:34-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:34<andythenorth>maybe I should fix it up and release it
02:34-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
02:34<Pikka>nice trailers :)
02:35<andythenorth>I like the tank trailer
02:35<andythenorth>I was pleased with generator for that
02:35<Pikka>oh, invisible trucks :)
02:36<andythenorth>I have outsourced drawing trucks to canada, for the tax breaks
02:36<Pikka>smoke particules :)
02:36<andythenorth>canada is busy :P
02:36<Pikka>I think the diagonals could be thinner
02:36<Pikka>I'll finish up some hqovs and talk to canada
02:36<andythenorth>yup ok
02:37<andythenorth>being as I have a magic generator, making the trailers less wide is not too hard
02:37-!-Rhamphoryncus [] has joined #openttd
02:37<andythenorth>bribe canada with code for the canset?
02:37<Pikka>:) my coding is thoroughly old-fashioned these days, anyway
02:38<andythenorth>'tis a shame about canset
02:38-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:38<Pikka>where did these truck names come from, anyway
02:39<Rhamphoryncus>Pikka: ever thought about an option for grossly exaggerated TE differences? It seems that IRL they're quite small and exist mostly to gain a few percent of efficiency.. which doesn't carry over into openttd
02:39-!-JVassie [~James@] has joined #openttd
02:40<Pikka>grossly exaggerated TE differences for what, Rhamphoryncus?
02:40<Rhamphoryncus>for engines
02:41<Pikka>any in particular?
02:41<Rhamphoryncus>So that a heavy freight engine has a clear advantage over a pax engine under common freight usage
02:41<Rhamphoryncus>Every one that says suitable for freight :)
02:42<Pikka>they already do have a clear advantage, especially if you set the cargo weight mulitplier
02:42<Pikka>and it's not necessarily all about TE anyway
02:42<Rhamphoryncus>10-20% at low speeds? Irrelevant at high speeds?
02:42-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
02:43<Pikka>anyway, the answer to your question is no.
02:44<Pikka>I never have thought about that
02:45<Rhamphoryncus>My experience has always been that high speed pax engines is better. I've tried turning up the freight multiplier and it's fine on level ground but on hills you get random jams, encouraging you to have lots of parallel lines and long signal gaps to prevent stopping
02:45-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:46-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
02:46<Rhamphoryncus>Today I figured out how TE actually works (thanks to valhallasw), and.. I'm still better off with pax engines. Yes, they slow down more on hills, but they're starting from a higher speed so they still end up faster. The only thing that matters is the jamming, which is only 10%-20%
02:46<Pikka>why are they starting from a higher speed? do you have wagon speedlimits turned off?
02:46<andythenorth>truck names are mostly from mountains, rivers, state parks etc
02:47<Rhamphoryncus>Lately I've been playing with them on
02:47*andythenorth doesn't like real names much
02:47-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:47<Rhamphoryncus>But even then there's often options involving refitting of high speed wagons
02:48<Pikka>and if you want a high-speed goods train, you put a high speed locomotive on it
02:48<Rhamphoryncus>It seems daft to have a low-speed train
02:48-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
02:48<Rhamphoryncus>Unless you're limiting yourself to the slowest train on the line
02:49<Pikka>well, you can't pick and choose your features and effects. TE won't make a difference unless you have heavy, slow trains.
02:49<Rhamphoryncus>That's why I'd like it. It'd give them some sort of advantage, a tradeoff to make
02:50<andythenorth>just use more of them :P
02:50<Rhamphoryncus>more of what?
02:50<andythenorth>they'll stomp up hills then
02:51<Rhamphoryncus>Yes, I know
02:51<Rhamphoryncus>Stick 5 fast PAX engines on whenever possible
02:51<Rhamphoryncus>Use freight engines only when the wagon speed limits dictate you must
02:51<andythenorth>this is the game
02:52<andythenorth>some of the stuff that matters in real life barely applies: maintenance cost, reliability, fuel consumption
02:52<Rhamphoryncus>It's tiresome to have hard limits rather than tradeoffs
02:52<andythenorth>track wear, manning costs
02:52<Rhamphoryncus>Yes, that's why I want an option to exaggerate what does matter in game
02:53<Rhamphoryncus>If you needed half as many freight engines as PAX engines then I'd really have to debate them
02:53<andythenorth>Pikka: do you boost TE on any freight engines to simulate wheelslip control?
02:53<Pikka>if you want to exaggerate the effect of TE, you can already do that with the cargo weight and hill multipliers, Rhamphoryncus.
02:53<andythenorth>(only makes a difference at low speed, and PAX engines often have it to)
02:54<Pikka>yes andy, the later diesels and electrics (66 onwards) have ridiculously high TE compared to anything before.
02:55<Rhamphoryncus>That's an absolute effect. Still 10%-20% difference. 6 pax engines vs 5 freight engines.
02:55<Pikka>if you're putting 5 locomotives on a train, then yes, it's going to stomp anything
02:55<Pikka>I'm pretty sure if you put 5 real life locomotives on a typical train it's going to stomp anything
02:56<Rhamphoryncus>My current thinking is 1% grade with a large multiplier, so it's always slow to accelerate but you don't need overkill to prevent jams
02:56-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:56-!-torkil [] has joined #openttd
02:56<Rhamphoryncus>Stomping is an undesired side effect. The problem is jams.
02:56<Pikka>you want TE to be important, but you don't want trains to slow down
02:56<Rhamphoryncus>No no, slow is fine
02:56<Rhamphoryncus>My concern is *stopping*
02:57<andythenorth>jams will occur if you have mixed speeds ;)
02:57-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
02:57-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:57<Rhamphoryncus>If you exceed around 9 tons/% grade/kN you still not be able to get going again
02:57<Rhamphoryncus>andythenorth: which is another reason to turn off wagon speed limits, which again leads to only using pax engines
02:58<andythenorth>Rhamphoryncus: why is amtrak often late?
02:58<Pikka>because they have wagon speedlimits on, andythenorth
02:58<Rhamphoryncus>I'm not american, I know little of amtrak
02:59<andythenorth>amtrak is often late due to unreliable engines, and crashing into trucks on ungated crossings
02:59-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
03:00<Rhamphoryncus>A real train is smart enough to stop and back up, or split into two trains, or get a helper. Trains in openttd are not, which turns it into a major problem
03:00<andythenorth>but also due to sharing track with mile-long freights
03:00<Elukka>because it's the last vestige of functional rail public transport in the country? :P
03:01<andythenorth>Rhamphoryncus: also, you could patch the grf for TE ;)
03:01<Rhamphoryncus>andythenorth: Pondering it. I'm guessing a second grf can't modify another one on the fly?
03:02<Pikka>of course it can
03:03<Rhamphoryncus>Hmm, maybe then
03:03<Pikka>good luck bringing interesting gameplay to your world of pentuple-deltic-headed 100mph coal trains.
03:04<Rhamphoryncus>That's what I'm trying to avoid x_x
03:04<Rhamphoryncus>That's the status quo
03:04*andythenorth wonders if breakdowns / reliability could be fixed
03:04*Pikka shrugs
03:05<Pikka>99% of players have them switched off, so I shouldn't put too much effort into it
03:06<Rhamphoryncus>It's broken, but everybody knows it's broken, so don't bother fixing it?
03:06<andythenorth>means things like duty-cycle have no gameplay effect
03:07<andythenorth>a commuter train is built for constant rapid acceleration and braking
03:07-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:08<andythenorth>a drag freight locomotive is built for low speed service at maximum revs for hours at a time
03:08-!-JVassie [~James@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:08-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
03:09<andythenorth>using them inappropriately increases run costs and decreases reliability
03:09<andythenorth>which are valid gameplay effects :P
03:09<Elukka>in europe it's often the same locomotives pulling freight and passengers, sometimes commuter trains
03:10<Pikka>indeed, and that's often the problem with representing "the real world" in openttd
03:10<Rhamphoryncus>It'd really help if there was some in-game feedback on a train's ability to handle a hill. Even just static information on the new vehicle window stating a ballpark max tonnage at the current grade setting
03:10<Pikka>there is. if it stops, it's too steep.
03:11<Rhamphoryncus>No, not too steep. There's only one steepness. Not enough engines
03:11<Pikka>the problem with representing the real world in openttd is that things are designed and built to do the job they're intended for.
03:11-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:11<Pikka>but the job they're intended for in real life is not necessarily the job they're intended for in openttd
03:12<andythenorth>this remains a puzzle in BANDIT
03:12<Pikka>for example, "realistic" MU lengths
03:12<andythenorth>the trucks that irl are designed to have 25t of gravel carelessly dumped in them, then go up a muddy 1 in 10 slope....
03:12<andythenorth>have no point in game
03:12-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
03:12<Pikka>so don't put them in the game
03:13<andythenorth>you may as well use the truck that is designed to carry potato crisps at 70mph on nice smooth highways
03:13-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:13<andythenorth>unless I prevent that truck refitting to gravel :P
03:13<Pikka>so either modify the game so the dump truck has a point, or limit the potato crisp truck, or...
03:14<Pikka>it's all design
03:15-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
03:16-!-Pixa [~pixa@] has joined #openttd
03:16-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:16<andythenorth>"modify the game" <- roadtypes :P
03:17<Pikka>roadtypes would make more varied roadvehicles interesting, like newairports would make more varied aircraft interesting.
03:17-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
03:19<andythenorth>but with roadtypes, what's to stop you building 'superawesome magnetic highway' everywhere?
03:20<Pikka>cost, introduction date, having half a brain?
03:20<Elukka>this ties into the much wider problem of having essentially infinite money a little ways into the game
03:20<telanus>is there something one has todo to make openttd display Kanji on Windows XP (US)? My computer is setup to display most Asian / Foreign languages.
03:21<Pikka>the time taken to upgrade a network?
03:21<Elukka>the gameplay design doesn't work for the game as it currently is
03:21-!-KingPixaIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:21<Elukka>or rather, as it's currently played
03:21<andythenorth>I did consider adjusting running costs according to cargo refit
03:21<andythenorth>so e.g. hard-wearing bulk cargos cost more
03:22<Rhamphoryncus>A much better calibrated inflation would help.. but that'd lead to either being behind the curve (in which case you're hooped) or being ahead of it (which becomes infinite money again). What you'd need is some magic way of adapting payments to the conditions
03:22<andythenorth>the money problem is 'meh'
03:22-!-Pikka [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]]
03:22<Elukka>you'd need some kind of pseudorealistic financial system i think
03:22<SpComb>progressive income tax
03:22<Elukka>don't ask me how though :D
03:22<Elukka>or rather, inspired by reality
03:22<andythenorth>big companies make a lot of money
03:23<Elukka>but they never have infinite money to do everything they'd like to
03:23<Elukka>a company doesn't become trivial once it's big
03:23<Elukka>trivial to run*
03:23<Rhamphoryncus>That's because there's competition driving the price down
03:24<Elukka>even if there isn't competition you don't get infinite money
03:24<Rhamphoryncus>Offering the same service at a lower rate
03:24<Rhamphoryncus>Only because the economy would crash
03:24<Elukka>railroads historically and currently are often state monopolies
03:26<andythenorth>money is only a gameplay problem because other goals are missing
03:26<Rhamphoryncus>My gameplay goal is to a better network than openttdcoop. It.. does not end well.
03:26<SpComb>I wonder how it worked in the vanilla TTD
03:27<SpComb>the game probably just ended by the time you got too much money
03:27-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:27<andythenorth>maps were smaller
03:27<Elukka>i think it wasn't designed for the large scale sandbox gameplay openttd is typically used for
03:27<andythenorth>it was hard
03:27-!-LordPixaII [] has joined #openttd
03:28<Elukka>openttd has the gameplay model of a different game that doesn't really fit
03:28<Elukka>would be a hell of a job coming up with and implementing a new one of course
03:28-!-torkil [] has left #openttd [Linkinus -]
03:28-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
03:30<andythenorth>NoGo scripts will solve most of it
03:30-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:31-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
03:31-!-KingPixaIII [~pixa@] has joined #openttd
03:31-!-TWerkhoven[l] [] has joined #openttd
03:32-!-Pixa [~pixa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:32<andythenorth>it would be interesting if you could be fired from your company
03:32-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:32<andythenorth>(including firing all players from a company on a coop game)
03:33-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
03:35-!-Pixa [~pixa@] has joined #openttd
03:36-!-LordPixaII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:40-!-KingPixaIII [~pixa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:45-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:46-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
03:48-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:49-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
03:51-!-Zuu [] has joined #openttd
03:51-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
03:52-!-Twofish [] has joined #openttd
03:53-!-Twofish [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:54-!-Twofish [] has joined #openttd
03:54-!-Elukka [] has quit []
03:54-!-Twofish [] has quit []
03:54-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:57<Nat_aS>LATE but, isn't that what happens when you run out of money?
03:57<Nat_aS>and your company gets sold?
03:57<Nat_aS>what other firing conditions would happen?
03:57-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
03:57-!-Netsplit <-> quits: Rubidium, +tokai|noir, Maarten, kkb110, telanus, Rhamphoryncus
03:57-!-LordPixaII [] has joined #openttd
03:58<Nat_aS>corruption if you anger the regional inspector too much?
03:58-!-Netsplit over, joins: Rhamphoryncus, +tokai|noir, telanus, kkb110, Maarten
03:59-!-Netsplit over, joins: Rubidium
04:01-!-KingPixaIII [] has joined #openttd
04:02-!-Pixa [~pixa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:06-!-LordPixaII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:18-!-andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
04:19-!-smoovi [] has joined #openttd
04:29-!-KingPixaIII is now known as Pixa
04:31-!-FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
04:34-!-DDR [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 11.0/20120310011224]]
04:37-!-Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:47-!-tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:48-!-TWerkhoven[l] [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
04:52-!-th_gergo [] has joined #openttd
04:53-!-tokai [] has joined #openttd
04:53-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
05:02-!-FLHerne [] has left #openttd []
05:09<dihedral>good morning
05:12<Markk>Hoi dihedral
05:13<dihedral>a Markk!
05:13<Markk>A wild Markk appears.
05:13<dihedral>define breakpoint: a Markk in the source code to ....
05:15-!-th_gergo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:16-!-Scuddles [] has joined #openttd
05:21-!-th_gergo [] has joined #openttd
05:23-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
05:36-!-th_gergo [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
05:56-!-peteris [~peteris@] has joined #openttd
06:03-!-cypher [] has joined #openttd
06:18-!-KouDy1 [~KouDy@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
06:22-!-xiong [] has joined #openttd
06:22-!-tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
06:25-!-pugi [] has joined #openttd
06:28-!-tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:29-!-smoovi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:32-!-tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
06:32-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
06:37-!-tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:38-!-smoovi [] has joined #openttd
06:55-!-tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
07:00-!-Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
07:01-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
07:01-!-tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:03-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@] has quit [Quit: DANGER is OFFLINE DANGER]
07:11-!-cypher [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:15-!-Devroush [] has joined #openttd
07:16-!-Rhamphoryncus [] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus]
07:24-!-mkv` [] has joined #openttd
07:30-!-Markavian` [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:33-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
07:51-!-th_gergo [] has joined #openttd
08:08-!-tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
08:08-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
08:13-!-tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:15-!-telanus1 [] has joined #openttd
08:20-!-telanus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:22-!-th_gergo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:28-!-Wing_ [] has joined #openttd
08:30-!-Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@] has joined #openttd
08:31-!-Nat_aS [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:31-!-Nat_aS [] has joined #openttd
08:31<krinn>a train facing the wrong side of a signal is stuck, do openttd have a reversedirection check for that or the train will die there waiting a signal it will never get ?
08:32-!-EyeMWing [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>there is a waiting timeout, unless you disabled that
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>"list_settings pf.wait"
08:33<krinn>checking it thx Eddi|zuHause
08:33-!-Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@] has quit []
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>there might also be a related GUI setting, not sure
08:33<Ammler>well, if disabled, it should not stand the wrong way
08:34-!-cypher [] has joined #openttd
08:35-!-TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@] has joined #openttd
08:35<krinn>can i consider safe to let the train stays stuck for a while then ?
08:36-!-th_gergo [] has joined #openttd
08:36<Ammler>I would check the setting :-)
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>a stuck train should generally require the attention of the player...
08:36<Ammler>it would just be strange, that the train stands the wrong way, if disabled
08:36<krinn>it's set to 15 for oneway and my trains could get stuck because of oneway
08:37-!-tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>that means one-way block signals, not one-way path signals
08:37<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, not in my case: i run train from PBS->PBS and later when adding more i add oneway in between : if the train wasn't running the right direction, it could get stuck while i build the oneway signals
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>the reverse side of a block signal should trigger immediate turnaround
08:38<krinn>should maybe, mine is stuck for good now :P
08:39<Ammler>if the train stands the wrong way on a signal, it is path
08:40<Ammler>and then there is a seting "wait for free path" os something similar, isn't?
08:40<krinn>that's it Ammler it says wait for free path
08:40<krinn>this should solve itself?
08:40-!-tokai|noir [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
08:41<Ammler>what is the time it waits for free path?
08:41<krinn>i have pf.oneway=15 pf.pbs_path=30
08:41<Ammler>but also as Eddi|zuHause said, if a train stands the wrong way, there is something "bad" there which needs attention
08:42<krinn>there's not really something bad, i could create this case as i explain
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: advanced settings->vehicles->trains->allow trains to turn around at signals
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>or similar
08:43<krinn> pf.wait_for_pbs_path=30
08:44<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, i got the setting disable
08:44<krinn>the turnaround at signal
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: then that is your problem
08:44<Ammler>just be sure to disable all or none :-)
08:44<krinn>without it, it will remain then stuck for good ?
08:45<krinn>hell, i was sure i would need a checkstucktrain function :(
08:45<Ammler>newbies need to have a time there, pros can disable it :-P
08:46<krinn>lol it unstuck itself, because wishing to service at depot it reversedirection
08:46-!-Scuddles [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:46<krinn>still it could get stuck for 150 days
08:49<Ammler>xiong: good article
08:49<xiong>Thank you, Ammler.
08:49<krinn>yep, must be why i disable that settting
08:50<krinn>now i wonder how i will get a vehicle direction :)
08:50<xiong>It's a playstyle issue, like so much of the game. Work / don't work for me, etc.
08:51<Ammler>I see no other useage as highlight issue for not disabling ti
08:51<xiong>One such is "normal" reversing: the Difficulty setting: end of line only or also at stations.
08:51-!-andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
08:52<krinn>i must not change settings, as i'm not allow to do this
08:52<xiong>Lately I've been thinking of tinkering with my pathfinder penalties; I've been quite reluctant to do that since with every change, my experience diverges from the norm.
08:53<xiong>But I play with breakdowns and am a big fan of forced depoting at stations.
08:53<Ammler>better get used with the default values :-)
08:53-!-kaenkky [] has joined #openttd
08:54<xiong>Why? Besides my general dislike of such tinkering?
08:54<krinn>not been able to see where the loco is on a train doesn't help to see the train direction
08:55<xiong>That's rarely been an issue for me, krinn.
08:55<xiong>Change your liveries -- "company colors".
08:55<krinn>xiong, it is for an ai
08:56<xiong>There has to be a way of determining which way you are going.
08:56<krinn>i know only one, make the vehicle running, check its state is VS_RUNNING, get its location, wait, get its location = now you get its direction
08:57<krinn>but this won't help as you need it to move to check it
08:57<xiong>Anyway, I'd take notice of any train with a speed of 0 and check to see how long it stays that way.
08:57<krinn>but a waiting train at signal isn't a bad wait: it just wait its signal
08:58<xiong>A train waiting for very long is always bad.
08:59<xiong>You are upset, as many others are, by this automatic reversing. As you can see from the final section, I don't see it's a problem. Waiting is always an issue, the longer the wait the worse the issue. But reversing doesn't really change much; and not for the worse.
09:00<krinn>i'm not upset, i have to deal with it, that's all
09:00<xiong>If you have a train not moving, it's of interest although not always severe. If you have a train waiting behind another train also waiting, this is nearly always an indicator of a problem.
09:00-!-KenjiE20 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:01-!-Devroush [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:01<@planetmaker>you can disable reversing of trains, krinn
09:02<xiong>Look on the bright side: In trunk there is no sharing of track; so you can at least be confident that your AI trains are running on AI track. So, build good networks and you won't run into this sort of issue.
09:02<@planetmaker>one (or two) of the PF settings allow to set the wait time in front of red signals
09:02<xiong>planetmaker, we went through that. He's writing an AI.
09:03<@planetmaker>Ok. I see. :-)
09:03-!-Devroush [] has joined #openttd
09:03<xiong>I've seen AIs build real dumbass networks. Their trains get stuck immediately. Avoid this!
09:03<krinn>planetmaker, the most trouble i get is that api doesn't gave vehicle direction
09:04<xiong>Do not allow your AI to build rail grades with poor signaling. Avoid loading track with too many trains, or underpowered trains.
09:05<krinn>oh lol found it! The easiest solve would be : put signals, once done, recheck rail for trains and send them for servicing, should work
09:05<xiong>Provide for depoting! You can't control whether breakdowns will be on or off.
09:06*xiong watches krinn's clever trains crash
09:06<krinn>? servicing doesn't allow bypassing signal
09:09-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c0f9:38f6:6f9c:889d] has joined #openttd
09:09-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
09:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r24053 /trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23947) [FS#5111]: Crash when timetabling a maximum travel speed of 0.
09:11-!-Pikka [] has joined #openttd
09:16-!-cypher [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
09:16<krinn>hello Belugas
09:16<Pikka>hello Belugas
09:18<Pikka>tiny buses are tiny
09:19<@Belugas>hi krinn hi krinn :)
09:20<Pikka>it looks kind of ridiculous next to eGRVTS
09:20<Pikka>but on its own, compared to the road, houses and trains, it's about right.
09:21<Pikka>don't think I'd have done it before extra zoom though. :P
09:25<krinn>it's a bus for dwarfs ?
09:25<Pikka>it's a bus that's more in scale with the rest of the TTD world
09:27<krinn>should appears like a moving dot then :P
09:29<Ammler>Pikka: the extra zoom levels might be good for debug, but the normal zoom should still be the level where it should look nicest, shouldn't it?
09:30<Pikka>tbh, everything looks way to small on a modern high-res monitor at normal zoom
09:30<Pikka>the extra zoom levels are more like what TTD looked like 15 years ago.
09:30<Ammler>:-) nice sight :-)
09:32<Pinkbeast>Tiny bus: I eagerly await the accompanying PikkaRail rideable minature railway stock
09:32<Pikka>in fact while working on UKRS2, it was really frustrating that I could spend hours getting all the shading and detailing on a vehicle just so, but once you get it into the game, at normal zoom at 1080p, it's just another blob.
09:33<Pikka>Pinkbeast: here you go. :)
09:35<Pinkbeast>Maybe my monitor's not so high-res or my eyesight better, but they don't look too blobular to me.
09:40<@planetmaker>hello Pikka & Ammler & Belugas :-)
09:41<@planetmaker>Pikka, start using 32bpp ;-)
09:41<Pikka>you mean extra zoom sprites, I assume.
09:41<Pikka>and no :)
09:42<@planetmaker>no, I didn't. But those, too
09:42<Pikka>well, still no. :)
09:42<@planetmaker>I didn't imply changing the drawing method (i.e. using models).
09:42<@Belugas>sir planetmaker! goodday
09:45-!-Belugas [~belugas@] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces]
09:45-!-KenjiE20 [] has joined #openttd
09:46<@planetmaker>Pikka, re-defining scale of vehicles?
09:46<Pikka>drawing vehicles
09:46<Pikka>no definition involved
09:47<@planetmaker>well... the scale of stuff is defined by the TTD vehicles
09:49<Pikka>it's purely an aesthetic thing though
09:49<Pikka>no gameplay effect
09:50<@planetmaker>with the same argument vehicles could be just plain boxes
09:50<@planetmaker>Point is that one would want to use especially more than one road vehicle newgrf often
09:51<@planetmaker>anyway, nvm
10:02<@peter1138>loadavg 104.90
10:03<@peter1138>mental-note, don't ask openvas to scan a /24
10:03<@peter1138>it WILL open 256 processes...
10:08-!-cypher [] has joined #openttd
10:10<Pikka>planetmaker: weren't you complaining a couple of days ago at how much OpenTTD was being held back by maintaining compatibility to TTD? :P
10:12-!-Belugas [~belugas@] has joined #openttd
10:12-!-mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
10:25<xiong>There is no avoiding the tradeoff between appearance and overall layout. Extra zoom is great and I like it but I often zoom way out, too. Important to have a wide range available.
10:27<xiong>At bottom, I have to say that I'm generally satisfied with the appearance of vehicles. I'm much less pleased, for example, with town buildings. I play buses and trucks and I nearly always leave town off.
10:29<xiong>If you hunger to inject more realism into the game, figure out a better grade system. It's silly to have trains run flat for miles, then jump a whole level in one tile. Real roads spend huge quantities of engineering dollar to spread changes in altitude over the longest possible distance.
10:31<xiong>While you're at it, think about rail curvature. I'm not asking for superelevation, you know. But the eighth-turn corners are funky. Even if we didn't actually get a more realistic metric than this game-of-life style, it would be better to see radius.
10:31<xiong>It might be a nice project to see rails that can knight's move.
10:32-!-cypher [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
10:32<xiong>But then, we still don't have N-S and E-W bridges!
10:33<xiong>Or for that matter, roads. I was thinking earlier today how nice it would be to have roads in eight directions... and flatiron buildings in town.
10:33<xiong>Anyway, don't worry about blobby engines.
10:37<Pinkbeast>Oh, you're the ziggurat guy! All becomes clear now.
10:42<xiong>Oh, that's good. Still murky on my end.
10:42<xiong>I've been working all night; time for sleep. See you.
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>what's a ziggurat?
10:51<Pinkbeast> - I _thought_ his tone sounded familiar.
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that's him
10:53<Pinkbeast>Well, Mr P1SIM is going to do all that stuff any year now. They should get in touch. :-)
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>a few of the "unhelpful" sentences there sound familiar :p
11:04-!-chochy [] has joined #openttd
11:05-!-chochy [] has quit []
11:13-!-th_gergo [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
11:14-!-th_gergo [] has joined #openttd
11:19-!-TWerkhoven[l] [] has joined #openttd
11:22-!-th_gergo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:28-!-theholyduck [~holyduck@] has joined #openttd
11:29-!-Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@] has joined #openttd
11:29-!-Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@] has quit []
11:34-!-Pikka_ [] has joined #openttd
11:36-!-Pikka [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:36-!-Pikka_ is now known as Pikka
11:51-!-xiong [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:53-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
11:54<@Belugas>boy does he like to talk
11:54<@Belugas>and say nothing, actually...
11:54<@Belugas>pretty sure he likes words just for words
11:57-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@] has joined #openttd
12:06-!-Pikka [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:07-!-Cmoud94 [] has joined #openttd
12:10<Cmoud94>Hi, is there anyone who can help me with this problem? 4>..\src\music\dmusic.cpp(25): fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'dmusici.h': No such file or directory ========== Build: 3 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== BTW: i have MSVC 2010.
12:13<Ammler>looks like a typo
12:13*andythenorth reads the post in question
12:13<Ammler>Cmoud94: which version do you try to build
12:15-!-FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
12:18*andythenorth thinks xiong is right wrt ziggurat
12:18*andythenorth is surprised that so many people have replied at such length to tell him he's wrong
12:19<Rubidium>Cmoud94: looks like you didn't install the right version of directx, or you haven't correctly configured the search paths of the compiler
12:20<Cmoud94>ok thanks :) i'll try it
12:21-!-Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
12:23-!-Scuddles [] has joined #openttd
12:26-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
12:30-!-Cmoud94 [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
12:34-!-namad8 [] has joined #openttd
12:34-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
12:38-!-namad7 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:39*andythenorth ponders what to do what to do
12:40<Pinkbeast>More crane tanks! :-)
12:40<andythenorth>more than none?
12:41<Pinkbeast>Pretty sure you had one being planned last time we spoke.
12:53-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
13:00<Scuddles>banker tank cranes with dual power electric-steam
13:07-!-tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
13:07-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
13:13-!-tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:15<Ammler>he, very cool that is, if you don't have any baseset installed, openttd is still able to download opengfx :-)
13:17<@planetmaker>yes, that's new and one of the great additions in 1.2
13:17-!-frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
13:17<@planetmaker>(and less support hassle) :-P
13:20<frosch123>moin :)
13:22<Ammler>planetmaker: the fonts are way to big in that gui, but well, it worked
13:22-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:22-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
13:22<andythenorth>faster ships? :P
13:33-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
13:39<Ammler>planetmaker: the tutorial is very nice
13:39<Ammler>or maybe credits go rather to Zuu :-)
13:39<Ammler>openttd just needs a tutuorial for how to start the tutorial :-P
13:41<@planetmaker>yes, credits do not go to me. Despite intention I didn't do anything yet
13:41<@planetmaker>It's afaik exclusively Zuu's excellent work
13:43-!-pugi [] has quit []
13:52-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@] has joined #openttd
14:12-!-fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
14:12-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:12-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
14:24-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
14:29-!-Alberth [] has joined #openttd
14:29-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
14:30<@Alberth>hi hi
14:32<FLHerne>hi hi hi
14:42-!-TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r24054 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by habell
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: latvian - 45 changes by Parastais
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 46 changes by Stabilitronas
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 16 changes by laurentalp
14:46-!-TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
14:57-!-mahmoud [] has joined #openttd
14:58-!-Devroush [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:04<@Alberth>hello :)
15:08-!-fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:12-!-Zuu [] has joined #openttd
15:13<@Alberth>hi Herr Zuu
15:13<Zuu>Hello Alberth
15:18-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
15:19-!-drac_boy [] has joined #openttd
15:20-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
15:27-!-LordAro [] has joined #openttd
15:28<LordAro>evening all
15:28<LordAro>i am currently speaking to you from my new computer :)
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>one evening for everybody? are there that many?
15:29<Zuu>LordAro: Hope it will speedup your development of patches and user content :-)
15:29<LordAro>i do hope so - compiling certainly :)
15:29<Zuu>My last computer improved compile speed by a factor of about 5.
15:29<Zuu>Its really insan.
15:30<LordAro>anyway, since i just shoved the old harddrive into the new one and booted from it, it has understandably cuased some havoc
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>make -j12 can do wonders to compile time :p
15:30<LordAro>so, my question: debian, mint, ubuntu or something else?
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>i think it was more like factor 12 for me
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>especially video conversion was "fun" after that :)
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>6 times the number of cores, and each core twice as fast as the old one :)
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>ok... something severely broke my sprite offsets, and i have no idea what...
15:33<@Alberth>LordAro: debian
15:33<@Alberth>LordAro: although I am a RPM user :)
15:33<LordAro>hypocrite :P
15:33<Zuu>Whenever I install Linux, I usually install Debian.
15:33<Zuu>Lately without X though.
15:34<@Alberth>vim runs quite well without X :p
15:34<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, you ? :)
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: i reverted my changes, but it's still happening
15:34<Zuu>Alberth: Sure and LAMP too
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>did something in openttd change?
15:35<@Alberth>yes, we got new strings less than an hour ago
15:35<LordAro>very well, i shall aim for debian
15:35<LordAro>i was going to switch away from ubuntu anyway
15:35<krinn>LordAro, it's clue you should aim at ubuntu or mint
15:35<@Alberth>LordAro: I don't know about mint, but ubuntu is hazardous, I think
15:36<Zuu>The downside with Debian is that they are a bit slow on pushing out new versions of end-user applications. At least when you run stable.
15:36<@Alberth>and debian is very very safe :)
15:37<krinn>choice is simpe, if it's for your "i will play and broke everything because it's my desktop computer and i want test everything", debian is a bad choice, else debian is really a nice distro
15:37<Zuu>For running a web server it is really good. For using it as desktop, you might want to get the latest applications quicker.
15:38<@Alberth>like using fedora :p
15:38*Alberth updates to the new kde, only 324MB :p
15:39<LordAro>damn indecision :P
15:39<krinn>why you wish change at first ?
15:39<@Alberth>LordAro: just pick one, try it for some time, then try another one
15:40<LordAro>switching distros akes time
15:40<krinn>i have the same distro since 2002 :)
15:40<LordAro>also messes up my home dir
15:40<Zuu>Why not just use Windows - there is just one single choise and you are stuck with even if you don't like some part of it. :-D
15:40-!-JVassie [~James@] has joined #openttd
15:40<@Alberth>LordAro: install /home at a separate partition
15:41<LordAro>(because i'm not clever enough to put my home dir on a separate partition ;) )
15:41*LordAro = too slow
15:41*Zuu hands LordAro a Linux for dumies book
15:41<@Alberth>you learn as you find you messed up the previous time :)
15:42*Eddi|zuHause wants kernel 3.3, but no rpms yet...
15:43<krinn>it's easy to have your /home on a separate partition, and for every distro it should take you, bah, let's says, 15 minutes of reading to learn howto : and this would have saved you for years, dunno how you didn't spent 15 minutes of your time to saved your home
15:45<@Alberth>windows habit, clickerdiclick :p
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>my distribution offered that as default...
15:45*Alberth also lived without /home for quite some time, until he needed an extra /boot partition :)
15:45<Zuu>My problem with Linux desktop is that I'm never satisfied with the window manager and keeps trying new ones.
15:46<krinn>Zuu, the problem is that you have choice to use more than just 1 :)
15:46<Zuu>Not really because they are very bad, but because there is a new one to try out which might be better.
15:46<frosch123>did you try tiling ones?
15:46<Zuu>I've used wmii quite a bit.
15:46<@Alberth>did you try twm? :p
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>what's the sense of that?
15:47<frosch123>i always wanted to try them. but it always looked so much work to set them up :)
15:47<LordAro>krinn: which distro do you have?
15:47<frosch123>he has gentoo
15:47<Zuu>The problem with wmii is that its floating model was very limited. And some programs don't work well in tiling mode.
15:48<krinn>yep gentoo
15:48<frosch123>gentoo is the distribution with the best logo :)
15:49<krinn>the cow or the pacman ?
15:49<Zuu>Also a very good installation manual.
15:49<frosch123>what pacman?
15:49<frosch123>or do you mean the somewhat abstract cow head?
15:50<krinn>i'll show you wait a sec
15:50<frosch123>yeah, that's what i mean with abstracted cow head
15:50<krinn> this is actually larry
15:50<Eddi|zuHause>why does my self-compiled openttd.grf differ from the official one?
15:51<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: because you are using a newer grfcodec
15:51<frosch123>than the one when openttd.grf was last updated
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>hm, ok...
15:51<LordAro>so, in summary, which distro would you recommend i get? (first ;) )
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>now it's bothering me with conflicts on every update
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>which is somewhat annoying
15:52<frosch123>LordAro: that always depends on your usecase :)
15:52<frosch123>but i think if you can get a hang of gentoo, you can deal with every other distro afterwards
15:52<frosch123>though some of them might annoy you
15:53<@Alberth>use a different one each day of the week :)
15:53<Zuu>Having used Gentoo is not something I regret, but moving on from it was a good choise as it took too much of my time to maintain it.
15:53<LordAro>i dunno, i think i'd like to stay with the .deb 'format' :)
15:53<frosch123>Zuu: yup :) same here
15:55<krinn>my server use gentoo, and execpt some few maintenance for security, it run alone for months without even me having a look at it
15:55-!-Rhamphoryncus [] has joined #openttd
15:55<LordAro>oh, and i now have 8GB of RAM, should i get the amd64 versions of linux?
15:55<frosch123>you should probably get the amd64 version if you have a amd64 cpu :p
15:56<krinn>kernel can do pae, so your 8GB is out of the decision
15:56<frosch123>anyway, try to get a distro with uses either pure 32bit or 64bit
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>i found that everything uses more ram on my new computer, and i suppose 64bit is the reason
15:56<frosch123>no weird lib / lib64 crap
15:56<LordAro>fair points, but i think i originally got the i386 versions because that's what was on the cd :)
15:57<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, 64bits memory access are also slower
15:57<Zuu>If you want to spend time on using your computer to do creative things like eg. contributing to OpenTTD, I would recommend debian over gentoo. But if you want to learn gentoo or how to manually install linux, pick gentoo.
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>i mean: my old computer had 1GB ram and 2GB swap and ran fine. my new computer has 4GB ram, and runs out of memory all the time
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>doing basically the same stuff i always did
15:58<@Alberth>Zuu: nah, install FreeBSD, or OpenBSD if you dare :)
15:58<krinn>never been oom with 3G
15:59<Zuu>Oh, and for debian, I always go with the minimal cd or whatever they call it which just downloads what you pick of the internet rather than first downloading a huge iso with old programs and then updating them after install.
15:59<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: gnome-shell is doing a great job being fatter than firefox
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i use neither
16:00<@Alberth>you should have room to spare then :)
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: it was even same KDE version, and same wine games
16:01<frosch123>Alberth: never use a non-gnu system :)
16:01<frosch123>the gnu toolchain is just so much stronger
16:02<LordAro>so, i shall get a amd64 version of debian, ok? :P
16:02<Zuu>Thanksfully, you can get some of its strange in Windows.
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>mingw-get somehow crashes for me
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>on multiple systems lately
16:04<@Alberth>"windows has detected an attempt to install a foreign system, we will let it crash now"
16:04<krinn>i'm not sure you will enjoy passing from ubuntu to a debian
16:04<FLHerne>Can I anti-recommend Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Lubuntu etc?
16:05<krinn>you should try a mint, more close to ubuntu experience i think
16:05<andythenorth>can I recommend an OS X?
16:05<andythenorth>the package management is crappy, but the rest works
16:05-!-ix [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:06-!-ix [] has joined #openttd
16:06<andythenorth>and you can lick the pixels :P
16:06<krinn>don't you need 16G to run itunes ? :)
16:07<FLHerne>I've been trying to get away from _ubuntu since both 11.04 and 11.10 updates caused multiple problems on quite a wide range of machines...
16:07<andythenorth>and that's a problem because....? :P
16:07<LordAro>mint or debian? you have around 30 mins to decide while i eat :P
16:08<andythenorth>also, OS X has an unsupported, mostly unmaintained release of ottd, what more can you want?
16:08<krinn>i dunno, paying it 99c maybe ?
16:09<FLHerne>OS7 is faster :P
16:09-!-pugi [] has joined #openttd
16:09<FLHerne>Even 9.1 was OK, but OSX is just bloated
16:09<andythenorth>faster at crashing
16:10*krinn getting popcorn waiting for the motorola/intel match
16:10<FLHerne>Not unless you do something stupid...
16:10<FLHerne>which does of course include using it :P
16:10<andythenorth>the one where steve jobs tried to provide ever larger reality distortion field wrt PPC? Whilst negotiating to switch to intel :P
16:11<FLHerne>PPC is better :-D
16:11<@Alberth>but somewhat dead :p
16:12<FLHerne>Not here :P
16:12<krinn>FLHerne, still got the one mouse button ?
16:13*Zuu got an item of "The joy of tech" with plenty of PPC/Intel jokes.
16:13<FLHerne>All the laptops do, and the old Mac.
16:14<FLHerne>The PowerMacs have USB, and the newer laptops get USB mice when I get fed up of dropping things in OTTD every time I need to move the map :-(
16:15-!-telanus1 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:17<FLHerne>Has anyone ever seen a multi-button ADB mouse? I never managed to get one...
16:18*drac_boy points FLHerne to the one big old company that starts with a K
16:18<krinn>i really enjoy the smoke on trains, specially with early engine, lol, you can feel its pain when climbing full by looking at the smoke
16:20<@Alberth>add an engine :)
16:20<krinn>i like seeing them suffering :)
16:23<krinn>lol add an engine, found a "bug"
16:25<krinn>engine doing 88mph + engine doing 80mph you'll end at 80mph max, that's not really what should it do: both engine help to start when pulling, but once running fast, the faster engine should be able to reach its own max speed
16:26<Rhamphoryncus>krinn: speed limits in real life are a lot more complicated than just power
16:26<drac_boy>krinn you forgot that theres a limit in drivetrains
16:26<Rhamphoryncus>Track wear is a big one
16:26<drac_boy>especially ever more when its hydraulic .. or steam .. etc
16:27<krinn>if you just pull the loco as a wagon, the train shouldn't be hold like that
16:27<Zuu>that would only make sense with wagon speed limits = off
16:27<krinn>and i'm not speaking about making a 80km/h loco running at 400km/h, just 8km/h more
16:27<frosch123>krinn: the maximum speed is not the maximum speed a engine can reach considering its power, but the fastest speed which it is considered to go without falling apart at some point
16:28<frosch123>they do not driver faster downhill either
16:29<@Alberth>until someone implements derailing if you make a sharp turn at the bottom, perhaps :p
16:32<Rhamphoryncus>You'd need something like the town roads repair to randomly block damaged rails
16:33<Rhamphoryncus>bottom line: there's very good reasons for maximum speed, none of them have to do with power :)
16:33<Wolf01>don't give me other ideas please :D
16:34<frosch123>Rhamphoryncus: activate the big ufo :p
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>the big ufo would be much less annoying if it didn't always land on the same spot
16:36<@Alberth>don't rebuild the tracks like they were :p
16:36<andythenorth>FLHerne: why do you need more than one mouse button :o
16:37*Rubidium ponders... lets put a Bugatti Veyron in front of a truck. I'd love to see that combination going much faster than 95 km/h (where the truck's speed limiter kicks in)
16:38<Rhamphoryncus>Rubidium: I'd love to see the bugatti veyron struggle to pull that truck ;)
16:38<frosch123>Rubidium: thy putting a leopard II in front of the truck
16:38-!-Scuddles [] has quit []
16:38*krinn love to see that bugatti veryon running at 2km/h because you add a cycle to it
16:38<frosch123>it is said to do 120 km/h
16:38<frosch123>(te unknown)
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>TE of such a vehicle is insane :p
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>if you step on the brakes, you stop pretty much instantly :p
16:39<Rubidium>but... the Veyron has more HP than a regular truck has
16:39<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, works also with a wall :)
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>(don't do that if there's a car following you.
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>it literally disappears underneath you)
16:40<@Alberth>krinn: leopards don't care about walls
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>"der kl├╝gere gibt nach" :p
16:40<frosch123>do you also type on virtual leopards?
16:40<Rhamphoryncus>Rubidium: If you want that just chain up the truck behind a jet car. Plenty of HP there ;)
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>no, only on wireless leopards
16:41<Rhamphoryncus>(The truck won't be happy with the afterburner kicks in)
16:41<frosch123>how long last the batteries of your leopard then?
16:41<krinn>lol but the truck driver will
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>i've never seen them run out yet
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>for the mouse, a couple of months
16:42-!-fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
16:47-!-lmergen [] has joined #openttd
16:48-!-Djohaal [] has joined #openttd
16:48<Djohaal>CHOO CHOOS Y U NO FASTER?!
16:48<__ln__>english only
16:50<Rhamphoryncus>I was going to joke about putting a jet truck behind the bugatti veyron but google sucks and I haven't come up with any credible information on one
16:51<+michi_cc>Whatever you do with your Veyron, plan your tank stops beforehand :p You need one every 15 minutes with full throttle.
16:51<rane>is quantity of sea/lakes same as sea level
16:51<Rhamphoryncus>krinn: youtube videos != credible data
16:52<Rhamphoryncus>michi_cc: make the truck a tanker truck :D
16:53<frosch123>michi_cc: not when it is pulling the tank truck :p
16:53<Rhamphoryncus>And you managed to find a video I can't play. Been a while since I've seen one of those.
16:53<krinn> you may not seen that one too so, not that bad, that guy is crazy
16:54<Rhamphoryncus>crazy is one word
16:56<Rhamphoryncus>looks more like one of these, which is not terribly exciting:
16:58<frosch123> <- you mean that one?
16:58<krinn>:) new bettle
16:58<frosch123>there is a lot of blablab in front, which can be summarised iirc by: "the driver misses the flower that came with the car"
17:01<@planetmaker>LordAro: <-- you could write a patch :-)
17:02<LordAro>i could, but there are more knowledgeable people on the subject
17:02<LordAro>and also i'm not so good with the words :)
17:04<rane>generating an interesting map is hard
17:06<frosch123>hmm... remindes me. andythenorth: are the big logging trucks in heqs with trailers suitable to transport stuff downhill?
17:07<andythenorth>I think so :)
17:07<frosch123>or would they have to drive backwards?
17:07<frosch123>well, they look as if they could pull heavy stuff. but i am not sure about their brakes
17:09-!-krinn [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:11<Rhamphoryncus>rane: aye. We need a new map generator. One that's bettererer ;)
17:11-!-Alberth [] has left #openttd []
17:18-!-krinn [] has joined #openttd
17:20<Zuu>krinn: I've now ported your code to SuperLib. Now I only need to write some code that test your function to ensure that it still works and I haven't broken anything. :-)
17:20-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:20<Zuu>I can't see in your implementation that you check to ensure that tilefrom and tileto are adjacent.
17:21<Zuu>Nor that they are adjacent on the 4 main directions.
17:22<krinn>i don't check if they are yep
17:23<krinn>you only need to check tilefrom & tileto
17:23<Zuu>In the switch-block, I've added a default statement to return false if the direction between the tiles is not one of the 4 main directions (or if the tiles aren't adjacent)
17:24<krinn>this cannot exist
17:25<krinn>Zuu: tiles can only be adjacent because i only check against adjacent direction
17:25<krinn>but you are right : you must check that tileto and tilefrom are adjacent at first
17:26<Zuu>You could add a function and say that it is a pre-condition for calling the function. But if not, I would add a check within the function like I did.
17:27<Zuu>first "function" => "comment" :-)
17:28<krinn>let's says after "Check tile ownership"
17:28<krinn>you add a "Check tile are adjacent" and it's done
17:28<Zuu>I_SuperLib_Direction.GetDirectionToAdjacentTile will return an invalid direction if the tiles aren't adjacent.
17:30<krinn>then just return if "direction == invalid direction"
17:31-!-DDR [] has joined #openttd
17:31<krinn>i can send you also some code i use to check my rails are all connect and that from point X i could reach point Y
17:31<krinn>that's why i've done this thing at first
17:32<Zuu>Checking for invalid direction happens down in the default part of the swiitch. Though if you expect most calls to the function to be tiles that arn't separate, adding a specific if-statement for this case could save a few opcodes.
17:33<krinn>the function expect you are comparing two adjacent tiles
17:33<krinn>so if direction == invalid direction you can just end the function as this mean fromTile and toTile weren't at first
17:33<krinn> local direction = _SuperLib_Direction.GetDirectionToAdjacentTile(fromTile, toTile);
17:34<krinn>if (direction == _SuperLib.yourinvalidstate) return;
17:35<Zuu>if(!_SuperLib_Direction.IsMainDir(direction)) return false; // <--- will also catch the diagonal cases :-)
17:35<krinn>look here why it is suppose to work like this :
17:36<krinn>to goes from 0,0 to -1,-1 you MUST pass by -1,0 or 0,-1
17:36<krinn>and the MUST pass are adjacents
17:37<krinn>as you see, there's no diagonal case :)
17:37<Zuu>Hehe, I made that image :-)
17:37<krinn>lol i know ^^
17:37<krinn>i have it link in my browser
17:37-!-peteris [~peteris@] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
17:37<Zuu>Yep, I could guess that it is a pre condition. It was just not clearly labeled and I wanted to point that out for you in case it could cause you trouble.
17:37<krinn>saved me zillions times from head pain
17:38<krinn>it's a function to check if you can stepup to another tile using rail
17:38<Zuu>As you clearly are aware of it, I think we are done with the discussion?
17:38<krinn>to stepup to a diagnoal non adjacent tile, you will then must step to adjacents tiles before
17:39<krinn>yep, looks all fine for me
17:39<krinn>i could provide you or show you my code using it
17:40<krinn>it's a function that need tileto and tilefrom and walk the tiles to reach tilefrom to confirm your train can reach it
17:40<rane>anyone have an example openttd.cfg how to configure newgrfs for a dedicated server?
17:40<Zuu>I guess I could grep for it in DictatorAI and modify it to use my code to test it. At least for the propper usage :-)
17:40<krinn>Zuu, yep look at line 1086 here :
17:41<Zuu>Something I will save for tomorrow.
17:41<andythenorth>frosch123: they have engine brakes (retarder), and truck/trailer brakes which are water cooled. There's a large water tank in the headache rack
17:41<andythenorth>I'm trying to find a video :P
17:42<Rhamphoryncus>andythenorth: truck racing?
17:44<krinn>andythenorth, the 2nd vid, i'm pretty sure the sign says : "don't fucking pass on me you're too fat !"
17:44<frosch123>ok, the last video looks like a ottd slope :)
17:45<rane>10:28<kais58>anyone know how to setup newgrfs for a dedicated server?
17:45<rane>10:29<V453000>create a savegame in single player and then load the savegame on the server
17:45<andythenorth>bad quality, steeper slope
17:45-!-Firartix [] has joined #openttd
17:46<krinn>some men got balls
17:47<krinn>or they are just insane ?
17:49<frosch123>or poor
17:49<andythenorth>not that poor :P
17:49<krinn>still insane if you poor to bet on your truck (something that cost huge)
17:50<andythenorth>the wood doesn't weigh that much
17:50<andythenorth>only 100t or so
17:51<andythenorth>check out the loaders they use
17:51<krinn>the bridge doesn't look strong
17:51-!-lmergen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:56-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:56<andythenorth>good night
17:56-!-andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
18:04-!-Chris_Booth [] has joined #openttd
18:07<drac_boy>hi chris :)
18:13-!-TWerkhoven[l] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:15-!-kaenkky_ [] has joined #openttd
18:18-!-kaenkky [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:19-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:19<drac_boy>anything new chris?
18:19<drac_boy>or shall I say chris_booth? :)
18:20<Chris_Booth>lol nothing new in the world of chis
18:20<Chris_Booth>I am still trying to be the most random person ever
18:20<Chris_Booth>and winning at it
18:21<Chris_Booth>anything new drac_boy?
18:21<drac_boy>some hardware issues, starting supper soon, looking at a few websites
18:21<drac_boy>nothing else much
18:28-!-smoovi [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
18:31-!-LordAro [] has quit [Quit: "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."]
18:34-!-xiong [] has joined #openttd
18:38-!-Firartix [] has quit [Ping timeout: 481 seconds]
18:39-!-FLHerne [] has left #openttd []
18:43-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@] has joined #openttd
18:44-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@] has quit [Quit: DANGER is OFFLINE DANGER]
18:45-!-mahmoud [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:48-!-Pixa [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:56-!-Chris_Booth [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 12.0/20120314195616]]
18:57-!-TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido]
19:06-!-JVassie [~James@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:08<@Terkhen>good night
19:08<drac_boy>bye Terkhen
19:20-!-cypher [] has joined #openttd
19:22-!-fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:32-!-drac_boy [] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!]
19:56-!-Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:03-!-xiong [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:10-!-theholyduck [~holyduck@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:27-!-Elukka [] has joined #openttd
20:30-!-Biolunar [] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us]
20:41-!-Djohaal [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:57-!-krinn [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
21:00-!-pjpe [] has joined #openttd
21:00-!-pjpe [] has quit []
21:00-!-pjpe [] has joined #openttd
21:41-!-pugi_ [] has joined #openttd
21:44-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:47-!-pugi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:47-!-pugi_ is now known as pugi
21:51-!-ffx [] has joined #openttd
21:53<ffx>hi, i just built a lot of trains, cars and ships and want to try airplanes, but i can't figure out where i can build them. if i build an airport then i don't see an option to build anything there. it looks just like a station.
21:53<ffx>i am running the ubuntu version btw. that is 1.0.4
21:54<+glx>click on the hangar tile of the airport
21:54<ffx>oh thx
21:54<ffx>i thought that was all the same
21:54<ffx>as i had to build it in one
21:56-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has joined #openttd
21:59<ffx>all right next issue: i can't make my new airplanes move. it seems the way i do that with trains or cars doesn't work.
22:00<ffx>i can't add a point to their route
22:03-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:05<+glx>it's exactly like other vehicles
22:07<ffx>is there a special point on the airport where i need to click so that it can be used as a point in the route?
22:08<+glx>any tile is ok
22:08<ffx>suprisingly it works now ...
22:08<+glx>the hangar tile is like a depot for other vehicles
22:08<ffx>i may have been in pause mode last time :(
22:08<ffx>thx for the help!
22:11<ffx>oh i got another one ^^. is there a way to automatically replace old vehicles? my current way to do that is to copy the old one, start the copy, sell the old one.
22:12<+glx>same model or different model ?
22:12<+glx>hmm same model it seems
22:13<+glx>look for autorenew on the wiki
22:19-!-cypher [] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
22:19-!-pugi_ [] has joined #openttd
22:24-!-pugi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:24-!-pugi_ is now known as pugi
22:33-!-KouDy [~KouDy@] has joined #openttd
23:33-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c0f9:38f6:6f9c:889d] has quit [Quit: bye]
23:37-!-pugi [] has quit []
23:41-!-telanus [] has joined #openttd
---Logclosed Wed Mar 21 00:00:01 2012