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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-03-22

---Logopened Thu Mar 22 00:00:04 2012
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04:21<dihedral>Sacro, yep
04:21<dihedral>at least i am now
04:21<dihedral>what can i do for you?
04:22<dihedral>let me guess - a bot that takes care of minimum active clients? :-D
04:22<dihedral>that bot is called openttd ^^
04:27<Scuddles>peter1138
04:29<@peter1138>Scuddles
04:31-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:36<Scuddles>oh
04:37<Scuddles>You are a badger and a recurvirostra
04:37<Scuddles>http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=File:AVOOCOT.png
04:40<Rhamphoryncus>gee, why does the exit of my drop station work so much better than the exit of my pickup station x_x
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04:59<MNIM>...lol.
04:59<MNIM>"After they fixed a minor problem with the wings falling off..."
04:59<MNIM>minor indeed
05:09<@planetmaker>Sacro: [00:05:00] I want people to be able to manually pause/unpuase, and it to auto-pause when nobody is in <-- OpenTTD's min_active_clients is your friend there
05:11<welshdragon>he was using AutopIlot ;)
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05:19<Ammler>welshdragon: the time, where ap needed to manage pause mode is long time gone
05:20<Ammler>I guess, around 0.6 :-)
05:20<welshdragon>oh, i see
05:20<Ammler>just set that to -1
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05:21<Ammler>it could be also buggy in the meantime since we don't use it anymore
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05:29<@planetmaker>in any case it works well with OpenTTD's own means. And ap+ is a wrapper around that anyway
05:32<__ln__>http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/single-view/view/demonstration-high-speed-freight-train-links-lyon-and-london.html
05:41<Rhamphoryncus>High speed freight? Totally unrealistic :P
05:42<V453000>realism! <3
05:43<MNIM>considering the euroshuttle through the channel tunnel already is a high-speed freight train
05:44<MNIM>not that unrealistic.
05:45<MNIM>and on long-range routes it should be massively cheaper than transport by air, it should be able to take quite a bite of air transport's piece of cake.
05:47<MNIM>and in western european countries, where there's far more railway stations than airports, coverage should be far denser
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05:49<V453000>the sprite looks great __ln__ :)
05:49<V453000>Pikka being Pikka
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05:50<Rhamphoryncus>bah :)
05:55<Scuddles>whatsprite?
05:55<Scuddles>btw pruplethingz is a butt
06:07-!-ffpp [~me@dslb-188-097-093-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
06:07<ffpp>hello
06:08<ffpp>what is a good way to provide a binary build ? I compiled with prefix-dir and did a `make install` after compilation, is it enough to just package that install dir and upload it ?
06:13<dihedral>i thought it was enough to run make and package one certain folder
06:14<@planetmaker>ffpp: if you want to distribute a custom openttd binary always use 'make bundle'
06:15<@planetmaker>that way you make sure that you have all files which you need to ship, also as required by the license.
06:15<ffpp>so the make install step is not necessary
06:16<@planetmaker>using 'make install' to create a distribution bundle would be an... awkward method. It's not necessary
06:16<@planetmaker>Nor do I know any makefile where that is necessary
06:16<ffpp>ah ok, build was still going on, I tried make bundle and see now where everyone gets his distribution version from ;)
06:17<@planetmaker>you could use straight away actually make bundle_zip
06:17<@planetmaker>then you're done to ship it w/o any worry
06:17<@planetmaker>just mind that you need to provide source for modified binaries, too
06:18<ffpp>the bundle is supposed to go alongside my own patch, but in to different files available through the same forum topic
06:19<ffpp>I wanted to provide the build additionally for playtesting
06:19<@planetmaker>yeah. Need not be in the same zip or so. Just the same thread, or linked in the same posting as the binary
06:19<@planetmaker>best provide one big patch for a binary next to the step-by-step patches which are more suitable for development
06:20<@planetmaker>with one big patch others can create it easily for other platforms, too
06:20<ffpp>yes, I still need to break the patch up in smaller files
06:20<@planetmaker>well. That is good for reviewing and development
06:21<@planetmaker>For building one big patch is better ;-)
06:21<@planetmaker>Different needs there
06:21<ffpp>I'm not sure if this will work because of interdependencies between the source files
06:21<@planetmaker>Splitting is manual work usually
06:22<@planetmaker>And yes, it often can be split. But it means that some lines need be re-written as different consecutive patches will depend on another
06:22<ffpp>oh, I thought the smaller patches needed to compile indepently from each other
06:23<@planetmaker>well. Yes and no
06:23<@planetmaker>if you have a queue of patches p1, p2, p3, p4 and they are ordered, then p1 must compile, p1+p2 as well as p1+p2+p3 and p1+p2+p3+p4
06:24<@planetmaker>thus each patch doesn't break compilation when applied in the correct order
06:24<@planetmaker>but applying p3 alone need not make sense
06:24<ffpp>ah, that makes things easier
06:24<@planetmaker>think of it as consecutive dev steps
06:24<@planetmaker>Each single step must not break it
06:25<ffpp>so far I created patches by just redirecting the output of svn diff, I could do this by only svn-adding a batch source files and diffing from there
06:25<@planetmaker>But of course you can't make the 2nd step before the 1st
06:25<dihedral>ffpp, what does your patch do?
06:25<ffpp>good :)
06:25<@planetmaker>ffpp: dealing with a stack of patches is FAR easier with mercurial or git
06:25<ffpp>dihedral: the template based train replacement: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=58904
06:25<@planetmaker>They're made to handle this. While svn isn't
06:25<Ammler>well, quilt
06:26<@planetmaker>urgs
06:26<ffpp>I wanted to look into git anyways since I read that it is far more sophisticated than svn
06:26*planetmaker would recommend hg though ;-)
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06:27<dihedral>not much of a difference between the two - they are quite similar, hg and git
06:27<ffpp>I'll take a glimpse at both
06:28<@planetmaker>dihedral: the difference is the core of the programmes and the way they store stuff
06:29<@planetmaker>hg is way more modular than git in that respect.
06:29<dihedral>iirc the difference is not too huge
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06:34<Ammler>well, does git have patch queue support in the meantime?
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06:35<Ammler>not that it is mandatory though :-)
06:35<@planetmaker>quite helpful, though
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06:39<Rhamphoryncus>THey both have patch queues and rebasing
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08:26<@peter1138>Scuddles is a Scuddles
08:26<MNIM>scuddles cuddles mister tuddles.
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08:36<Scuddles>petern is an avocado
08:36<Scuddles>and pikka is a bum
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>i'm still always thingking of Skittles
08:39<@planetmaker>I'm thinking of random noise
08:40<Scuddles>I'm thinking of a ridiculous vehicle to draw for ukrs2
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08:45<Pikka>the moral of this is, of course, "beware of thinking". because thinking is... all in the mind, you know.
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08:48<Scuddles>kick, punch, it's all in the mind
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10:57<Scuddles>openttd should have gorillian dollars as a currency
10:58<@planetmaker>please increase your signal to noise ratio to at least 50%. You're at 0% now, Scuddles
10:59<@planetmaker>I've not seen a single on-topic line by you
10:59<@planetmaker>off-topic is on-topic in #tycoon
11:00<Scuddles>such a scam
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11:02<@planetmaker>@calc 24 * 3600
11:02<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 86400
11:03<@planetmaker>the thinly veiled thread I just made, promise, is not a scam
11:06<Scuddles>I didn't get it, did you actually mean threat?
11:07<@planetmaker>@kban Scuddles 90000 not a scam, as promised
11:07-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~notme@cm12.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] by DorpsGek
11:07-!-Scuddles was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [not a scam, as promised]
11:09<MNIM>...wait. you mean you have to talk on-topic here?
11:09<MNIM>...what the actual duck
11:09<MNIM>Ive been on a lot of ircs, but I have never seen that before
11:10<Pinkbeast>I think it's more that you have not to take the mickey with the level of off-topicness
11:10<@planetmaker>^^
11:11<@peter1138>well, that's bs
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11:11<@planetmaker>everything he said so far? Indeed
11:11<@peter1138>sure but he's scuddles
11:12<@planetmaker>That means nothing to me. And I expect from him somewhat decent behaviour. Which also implies to be more than a source of spam exclusively
11:12<@planetmaker>Thus he has about 25 hours to ponder about that
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12:40<andythenorth>ho
12:40*andythenorth just found this http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=778830#p778830
12:40<andythenorth>I think I inverted my position on that :P
12:41<andythenorth>it was the voice of a reasonable person who didn't own children :P
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12:44<frosch123>you own them? maybe sell them then?
12:44<andythenorth>who does own them? Is it me?
12:45<frosch123>ah, you are owned by your children? yeah, that sounds reasonabel
12:47<Nat_aS>Hey, I know you aren't suposed to report bugs for errors caused by removing newgrfs (for obvious reasons) but what about adding newgrfs to existing games?
12:47<Nat_aS>because Japan houses crashes the Skadi Islands scenario whenever I try to load it in.
12:48<Nat_aS>(I like the map but I always want to tinker with it before playing because it's industries are incomplete.
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12:49<andythenorth>not a valid bug report :P
12:49<@planetmaker>Nat_aS, any change of NewGRF can cause such mayhem
12:50<Nat_aS>in theroy you should be able to hotload newgrfs without them breaking
12:50<@planetmaker>as adding a NewGRF also means to re-define how map bits are to be interpreted
12:50<Nat_aS>I'm assuming this one does not like it when there are already houses in existance.
12:50<Nat_aS>I wonder if it would still happen if I deleted all the towns first.
12:51<@planetmaker>Nat_aS, how about "hotloading" a NewGRF which disables then another NewGRF which is used?
12:51<@planetmaker>Or which changes the things defined by another NewGRF?
12:51<Nat_aS>Hmm maybe
12:51<@planetmaker>You think it doesn't happen? It does. There are such (nasty) examples
12:52<@planetmaker>Often one gets aways with adding NewGRFs. But unfortunately not always
12:52<@planetmaker>As the same things can happen as with removing
12:52<Nat_aS>this one seems to be incompatible with the basic set though.
12:52<Nat_aS>no other newgrfs are loaded
12:52<@planetmaker>yes. That doesn't matter
12:52<@planetmaker>the base set also has houses. They can be re-defined in an incompatible way
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12:53<Nat_aS>but it should also be easy for a newgrf maker to design a newgrf that won't do that. at least easier than making a newgrf compatible with other people's newgrfs
12:54<andythenorth>some newgrf makers don't care for that goal
12:54<andythenorth>they don't think it's valid
12:54<andythenorth>or so it's thought
12:54<@planetmaker>Nat_aS, yes, *should* be. but it's way easier to not bother yourself with such thoughts.
12:54<andythenorth>hmm
12:54<@planetmaker>(as newgrf author)
12:54<Pinkbeast>Also "best" can be the enemy of "good" there - better to release something that can't be loaded/unloaded than release nothing at all, surely.
12:55<andythenorth>what's the list of grfs that disable themselves? Also what's the list of grfs that disable other grfs?
12:55<andythenorth>FIRS disables itself for example
12:55<@planetmaker>there's probably no comprehensive list
12:55<@planetmaker>you'd need to semantically analyse all NewGRFs to come up with that
12:55<andythenorth>'we' should parse all the grfs on bananas for relevant actions :P
12:55<andythenorth>or not
12:55<@planetmaker>OpenTTD should do that
12:56<andythenorth>anyway, this is old news
12:56<Nat_aS>what's a nice set of GRFs that play nice together?
12:56<@planetmaker>and grf v9 disallows disabling others ;-)
12:56<@planetmaker>Nat_aS, the Japanese ones
12:56<Ammler>Nat_aS: use all
12:56<Nat_aS>:P
12:56<Nat_aS>that's what I was trying to do
12:56<@planetmaker>Or the OpenGFX+ ones
12:56<Nat_aS>i wanted to turn Puruno's Skadi islands into japan
12:56<Ammler>planetmaker: is boring
12:57<@planetmaker>or Swedish ones
12:57<@planetmaker>yup. zzzZZZzzz ;-)
12:57<Nat_aS>actualy, Skadi islands might be small enough to remove all the industries and replace them with a new industry grf
12:57<Pinkbeast>Nat: FIRS, CHIPS, UKRS2, UKRS2 addons, EGRVTS, Generic Trams, Sailing Ships, Rural/Suburban stations renewal, Av8, and er one of those newhouses ones is my usual pick
12:57<Nat_aS>and I tried sweedish, The trainset leaves much to be desired
12:57<@planetmaker>Nat_aS, don't change industry NewGRFs on an existing map
12:58<Pinkbeast>Cough and HEQS, mustn't forget HEQS
12:58<@planetmaker>PinkBeast's list is nice
12:58<@planetmaker>,too
12:58<Nat_aS>I use FISH Industrial stations renewal, and AV8 on every map
12:58<Nat_aS>because they don't break things, and fill huge gaps in core gameplay.
12:58<@planetmaker>you want to add the ISR station set
12:58<Nat_aS>ISR?
12:58<@planetmaker>and maybe some VAST tiles
12:58<Ammler>stations should not matter usually, except maybe canstations
12:58<Nat_aS>I use Japan stations for passinger stations
12:58<@planetmaker>Industrial Stations Renewal
12:58<Pinkbeast>Oh, damn FISH. I do have ISR in there, but I tend to stick with CHIPS now because it's better with FIRS.
12:58<Nat_aS>I listed ISR
12:59<@planetmaker>Pinkbeast, indeed. They're for the lazy station builder :-)
12:59<Pinkbeast>I mean "damn, I forgot FISH", not "damn FISH adding sea transport to my game!"
12:59<Ammler>hmm, there mgith be no canstat
12:59<@planetmaker>(Just like me, too :-P )
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12:59<Nat_aS>I wish there were passinger stations as snazy as ISR
12:59<@planetmaker>DutchStations has some
12:59<Ammler>japstats
13:00<Nat_aS>also i wish ISR had a few more tipes, maybe some more tiles
13:00<@planetmaker>more tiles?!
13:00<Nat_aS>you can't place every tile from the completed sets
13:00<Nat_aS>:3
13:00<@planetmaker>I wish it had less
13:00<Nat_aS>lol
13:00<Nat_aS>Sometimes I like to tinker.
13:00<@planetmaker>Too much choice, I can't decide :-P
13:00<@planetmaker>but then... "lazy station builder" :-P
13:00<Pinkbeast>The old "newstatsw" grf was nice with all the tiny pax, but IIRC doesn't work nicely with NuTracks. And I forgot NuTracks, too
13:00<Nat_aS>you can't place the barn as a non track tile
13:01<Nat_aS>:C
13:01<Nat_aS>the only agricultural themed non track tile is cattle yards
13:01<Nat_aS>which looks silly in tropical maps where livestock do not exist.
13:01<@planetmaker>and grain silos
13:01<Nat_aS>those are not non track, iirc
13:02<Nat_aS>I could be wrong
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13:02<@planetmaker>iirc they exist as both. But I could be wrong, too ;-)
13:02<Nat_aS>I just wish I could place barns as non track tiles.
13:02<Nat_aS>they would make the perfect outrigger building
13:02<@planetmaker>Nat_aS, try look at DWE and VAST tiles
13:02<@planetmaker>they have loads of stuff which you might find exciting in this context
13:03<Nat_aS>loading VAST and ISR is MENUS MENUS MENUS
13:03<@planetmaker>yes. So? :-)
13:03<@planetmaker>We now have 256 menus available :-P
13:03<Nat_aS>oh
13:03<Nat_aS>can there be an overflow of menus?
13:03<Pinkbeast>But I think I'm in the lazy category for industry stations, I'll pick the CHIPS station with the right background and slap it down, who cares?
13:03<Nat_aS>CHIPS?
13:03<@planetmaker>it was previously capped to 32(?) station classes
13:03<Pinkbeast>For one thing tweaking station appearance is a good way to spend money early.
13:04<Nat_aS>what happens if you load all the station newgrfs at once? will it crash?
13:04<Nat_aS>or just not display
13:04<@planetmaker>sure it is. But who cares about money after 10 years?
13:04<Nat_aS>"P
13:04<Nat_aS>:P
13:04<@planetmaker>Nat_aS, it will simply work
13:04<@planetmaker>Mostly, that's what I usually do :-P
13:04<Pinkbeast>planetmaker: When I started in 1800 I was still struggling for money when I stopped in about 1850
13:04<@planetmaker>Pinkbeast, ok, I barely start that early :-)
13:04<Pinkbeast>Nat: CHIPS is a more plain set that supports all FIRS cargos
13:05<Nat_aS>so, even if you remove all industries and then load a new industry grf it will not work?
13:05<Nat_aS>is there any scenario that uses FIRS?
13:05<Pinkbeast>I did have inflation on (which is one reason I gave up, this was a mistake) but even without I think you're going to struggle to make money with very early vehicles.
13:05<Nat_aS>inflation should be based on absolute year, not relitive year.
13:05*planetmaker just wished that egrvts was fixed for realistic acceleration
13:06<Nat_aS>ie, if you start before 1930 you wont see any inflation at all untill much much later
13:06<@planetmaker>why?
13:06<Pinkbeast>Likewise, but I figured I'd just change RVs to realistic once the last horse trams were retired.
13:06<ffpp>I'm playing 1850 atm too
13:07<ffpp>but RVs are a PITA during those early stages
13:07<ffpp>they just clutter up the roads, get stuck and barely make money - for pax games I just refer to the 2cc metros which I run all across towns for local transportation
13:08<Pinkbeast>You need about 80 million horse vehicles to do anything but in-city pax
13:08<ffpp>yes
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13:08<Pinkbeast>If we ever get andy's "continuous transport" I think there's a lot to be said for implementing wagonways as continuous transport
13:08<ffpp>one problem: with so many it is very likely that one will be broken at any time and everyone else will get stuck in traffic because of it
13:09<ffpp>andy's what ? :)
13:10<Pinkbeast>As an alternative to roads/rails/air/sea: it would cover things like pipelines, electricity supply, cable cars?, that sort of thing
13:10<Nat_aS>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=71214 hey, this is not ISR is it?
13:10<Pinkbeast>I mean the sort of cable car where low-capacity vehicles leave very frequently
13:11<Nat_aS>another station grf that uses some of it's sprites?
13:11<Pinkbeast>That image does appear to be of an ISR mineral station
13:11<Nat_aS>yes, but look at the ground
13:12<Nat_aS>it's dirt not concrete.
13:12<@planetmaker>that's iirc ISR
13:12<@planetmaker>though the ground looks funky
13:12<Nat_aS>yeah
13:13<Nat_aS>does ISR have any derivatives?
13:13<@planetmaker>not that I know. But feasible and legal.
13:13<Pinkbeast>Ah, I think that's CHIPS, actually
13:13<Nat_aS>CHIPS?
13:13<Pinkbeast>Errr see above last time you asked me that
13:15<@planetmaker>Nat_aS, just download it from online content and see what CHIPS is
13:15<@planetmaker>for me it's a lazy person's awesome station building NewGRF
13:16<@planetmaker>andythenorth, did CHIPS borrow that building from ISR?
13:16<@planetmaker>you should know :-P
13:17<andythenorth>that's original industrial stations graph
13:17<andythenorth>grf :P
13:17<andythenorth>predates ISR
13:18<@planetmaker>oh
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13:20<andythenorth>it has [some] nicer stations in it imho
13:22<Nat_aS>does CHIPS get more buildings later?
13:22<Nat_aS>because right now it has very few
13:22<Nat_aS>in 1930
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13:22<andythenorth>it has very few
13:22<andythenorth>partly by design
13:22<Nat_aS>Hmm
13:23<@planetmaker>it hasn't been designed to be the only station NewGRF a player uses
13:23<andythenorth>and partly by being 0.6.0
13:23*Pinkbeast is confused by http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=153459 from the CHIPS development thread, he can't make it do that.
13:23<andythenorth>that's not chips ;)
13:24<@planetmaker>what station? Looks not like chips
13:24<@planetmaker>s/what/that/g
13:24<Pinkbeast>I figured (wrongly) since it was posted in that thread it must be CHIPS and you'd added some IS/ISR buildings just because
13:25<Nat_aS>that is ISR
13:25<Nat_aS>but before I saw ISR buildings on CHIPS platforms
13:25<Nat_aS>which confused me
13:26<Pinkbeast>That also was part of what led me to the wrong conclusion
13:29<Nat_aS>anyways, I think my ideal station newgrf would have one menu of automatic stations including Rural, Urban, Farm, Mine, wood, container, ect ect. one menu of non track buildings, a menu of elements from the automatic stations as non track tiles, and then menus of all the individual tiles found in the automatic stations
13:29<Nat_aS>it would have everything, and be self contained
13:30<Nat_aS>maybe even make it break other station newgrfs >:3
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13:30<Pinkbeast>What I'd really like to see (which I realise is a hard problem) is activity at unloading stations and at loading stations even when goods are not waiting around.
13:31<andythenorth>there can be vehicle animation and such
13:31<andythenorth>there's a regular animation trigger I think
13:31<@planetmaker>stations have a CB which is triggered when a vehicle loads
13:31<Pinkbeast>At the moment any station that's unloading-only, or serviced perfectly, appears to be a ghost town, which is a bit of a pity.
13:32<@planetmaker>true
13:33<Nat_aS>is there any scenerio that uses FIRS?
13:33<Pinkbeast>Particularly if (says he, stacking up wishlist stuff for someone else) stations change a bit by year; all those diesel cranes look a bit odd in 1825. :-)
13:33<Nat_aS>because I hate generating maps
13:33<Nat_aS>the industries are always placed illogicly
13:34<andythenorth>stations can change by year
13:34<andythenorth>CHIPS could do it, I have older cranes
13:34<@planetmaker>that'd be awesome :-)
13:34<andythenorth>I'd have to remember nfo :P
13:34<Nat_aS>so chips is a work in progress?
13:35<Pinkbeast>Depends how much you care about us crazy early starters who'd like to see horsies and shunting engines. :-)
13:35<Nat_aS>would you incorperate some ISR tiles/stations?
13:35<andythenorth>CHIPS is 0.6.0
13:35<andythenorth>things that are 'done' are > 1.0.0
13:35<andythenorth>;)
13:35<Nat_aS>lol
13:36<Nat_aS>actualy, I really want to see a grf that allows custom seaports
13:36<Nat_aS>maybe multi tile ones
13:36<Nat_aS>that can be combined
13:36<andythenorth>there's one being developed in the forum
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13:36<andythenorth>doesn't do actual docks though
13:36<andythenorth>Pinkbeast: I usually start around 1870
13:36<Nat_aS>would be really cool if you could build a pier, and then place a station on top of i
13:36<Nat_aS>it
13:36<Nat_aS>oh ink?
13:36<Nat_aS>link rather
13:37<Pinkbeast>Next time I take a proper stab at it I'll probably start around 1825.
13:37<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=58884
13:37<Pinkbeast>Basically, early enough to have some horse / sail infrastructure in the company when locomotives become practical
13:38<andythenorth>it's too bloody slow in 1825
13:38<Nat_aS>oh my god
13:38<Nat_aS>that's awesome
13:38<@planetmaker>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Stations#Animation_triggers_.2818.29 <-- Pinkbeast in principle you could populate stations also on unload... might be hard to determine the cargo type, though
13:39<Pinkbeast>Well, I resolved after the Rennford game to fiddle with daylength shamelessly
13:39<Nat_aS>could just be set by station type planetmaker
13:39<andythenorth>is there no regular animation trigger? /me didn't look yet
13:39<@planetmaker>Nat_aS, yes... But that's "boring" ;-)
13:40<Pinkbeast>planetmaker: One might leave it up to the player to build the "right" non-station tiles - so frex lights would come on in a parcels office, and if you didn't deliver mail that's your lookout.
13:41<@planetmaker>Pinkbeast, that certainly is possible
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13:42<Nat_aS>oh god, trucks driving on docks
13:42<@planetmaker>And tbh, I'd love such option / tiles. But I'd love it more, if it detected the delivered cargo. But I have my doubts that it's feasible atm
13:42<Nat_aS>I think I came
13:42<Nat_aS>I need new pants now.
13:42<Pinkbeast>And a lot of stuff (cranes moving, scenery-type industrial locomotives or lorries buzzing about) is pretty generic.
13:43<@planetmaker>yeah. As are parcels, containers or boxes
13:43<Nat_aS>no, these are actual roads
13:43<Nat_aS>so you can drive trucks onto the docks to unload
13:47<@planetmaker>Generally it needs more people coding NewGRFs :-)
13:51<frosch123>generally it needs more girls
13:51<frosch123>:p
13:52<Nat_aS>yeah, they seem to be having trouble getting cars to drive under cranes without cliping
13:52<Nat_aS>on the water it does not seem to work
13:54<@Terkhen>hello
13:54<andythenorth>frosch123: 'it' ?
13:54<andythenorth>I have quite enough girls in my life
13:54<frosch123>it, this cannel
13:55<frosch123>andythenorth: do they code grfs?
13:55<andythenorth>frosch123: they support the coding of grfs, somewhat
13:55<andythenorth>by provision of sofas and tables
13:55<andythenorth>and food sometimes
13:55<Pinkbeast>Errr did this conversation just take a wrong turn somewhere?
13:55<frosch123>or are they only boosting the diaper industry?
13:56<andythenorth>I'd say they are also detrimental to coding of grfs, due to regular invention of chores
13:56<frosch123>does firs have a diaper industry?
13:56<CornishPasty>MAKE ONE!
13:56<Nat_aS>i wouldn't be suprised
13:57<Nat_aS>but I have no way of knowing because THERE ARE NO SCENERIOS THAT USE IT
13:57*Nat_aS shakes fist
13:57<andythenorth>shurg
13:57<andythenorth>shrug /s
13:57<andythenorth>make a scenario?
13:57<andythenorth>also, FIRS changes a lot
13:58<andythenorth>so scenario makers hate me :P
13:58<frosch123>maybe they think you hate them
13:58<Nat_aS>is it compatible with tropical?
13:59<andythenorth>why is the sound broken currently?
13:59<andythenorth>my dynamite isn't 'bang'
13:59<andythenorth>which is problematic when entertaining 2 year olds
14:00<@planetmaker>The NoSound sound set usually is quite silent ;-)
14:00<andythenorth>this is the thing where pikka has somehow broken sounds
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14:27<Nat_aS>i don't even know how FIRS works, how am I suposed to make a scenerio for it
14:27<Nat_aS>and is it compatible with tropic or not?
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14:29<@Alberth>niom
14:29<@planetmaker>oddink
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14:39<@Alberth>quiet crowd today :p
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14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r24056 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt german.txt latvian.txt unfinished/thai.txt):
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by Jogio
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: latvian - 6 changes by Parastais
14:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: thai - 96 changes by kenny
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14:51<Rubidium>Alberth: yeah, serious case of "real life"
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15:05<andythenorth>Nat_aS: FIRS compatible with tropic
15:05<andythenorth>Rubidium: +1 to real life
15:06<andythenorth>at least I can go and work in the pub tonight though
15:06*andythenorth hopes
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15:10<@Alberth>if you tend the bar, that should work quite nicely :p
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15:55<Nat_aS>Hmm, I just had a strange idea
15:55<Nat_aS>what if there was a Grf that allowed you to customze industries?
15:56<Nat_aS>like tweek with there sprites in the scenerio editor, and select what goods they accpted and produced
15:56<@Yexo>why not simply write your own industry newgrf in that case?
15:57<Nat_aS>because I'm not a programer :P
15:57<@Yexo>it's a bad idea because it adds a new layer of complexity without any new value
15:58<@Yexo>what you actually want is an easier way to create an industry newgrf
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15:58<Nat_aS>well I am playing around with FIRS, and I keep wishing I had a factory that took XY and produced Z,
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15:59<Nat_aS>there are a lot of combinations, but sometimes you want a combination that is not there
15:59<@Yexo>as I said: you need an easier way to modify FIRS
15:59<Nat_aS>I say it would add value for scenario editors.
16:00<@Alberth>but for MP you need to be able to distribute that information
16:00<@Alberth>also, you probably want to play with the same industries more than once
16:01<@Yexo>distribution for MP is not a problem, it can be done via a new savegame chunk
16:01<Nat_aS>another question, in FIRS, are fishing ports seaports?
16:01<@Yexo>don't know
16:01<Nat_aS>or do you need to build a dock next to them>
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16:02<Nat_aS>they don't seem to make automatic ports like fishing grounds do.
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16:04<Zuu>Does it have a gray station sign over it?
16:04<Zuu>If not, there is no "dock"
16:04<Nat_aS>yeah, I don't see a sign
16:04<Nat_aS>but I don't see why it wouldn't be a dock
16:04<Nat_aS>it makes little sense.
16:04<@Yexo>ask andy when he gets here
16:05<Nat_aS>i will
16:05<@Alberth>fishing grounds is an oil-rig like industry, not a dock
16:06<Nat_aS>yeah, so it can accept boats
16:06<Nat_aS>why aren't fishing ports the same way?
16:07<@Yexo>most likely because in that case it must also accepts helicopters
16:07<Nat_aS>well so do fishing grounds
16:08<Nat_aS>which is silly, but unavoidable
16:08<Nat_aS>(technacly anywhere should be able to accept helicopters :p)
16:08<@Alberth>don't oil-rigs have a minimal distance from the shore?
16:08<Nat_aS>can that be set?
16:09<@Alberth>you want an industry set to work independent of such settings, I'd say
16:09<@Alberth>but andy knows :)
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16:14<Nat_aS>well I'm turning Puruno's Skadi islands map into an alaskan/pacific northwest themed map with FIRS industries
16:14<Nat_aS>lots of fish
16:15<Nat_aS>and a hidden brewery that makes the best porter ever.
16:15<@Alberth>:)
16:18<Nat_aS>and no, loading FIRS into an existing map does not crash it if you delete all the industries first
16:18<Nat_aS>(i hope)
16:24<@Alberth>usually it does not crash, it just corrupts data which you don't see until much later
16:25<Nat_aS>:C
16:25<Nat_aS>;_;
16:25<@Alberth>if it reliably crashed, we'd have much less problems
16:28<Nat_aS>so there is no way to sanatize maps?
16:28<Nat_aS>except maybe turn them into heightmaps?
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16:30<Nat_aS>oh well this is intresting
16:30<Nat_aS>It loaded it back bigger
16:32<V453000>why dont you just use a random map? :) always fresh and original and you can set that up anyhow you want
16:33<Nat_aS>random maps are often silly in regards to geography.
16:35<Nat_aS>what's a good trainset compatible with FIRS?
16:36-!-lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:36<FLHerne>UKRS2(+) is nice
16:37<Nat_aS>one that would fit a pacific northwest/alaska theme
16:37<Nat_aS>North america maybe?
16:38<V453000>geography xD it is a game dude
16:38<V453000>it is great to mix train sets for FIRS
16:39<V453000>if you use just one then you still dont have wagons for all cargoes
16:39<V453000>I have good experience with combining UKRS, NARS and tropic refurbishment set ... tropic refurbishment set does not support FIRS cargoes but it really fits into the mix and you can use its wagons for the standard cargoes like coal or oil which are still there
16:42<Nat_aS>i like tropic refurbishment set
16:42<Nat_aS>but it's probably wrong for here
16:42<Nat_aS>love the huge rodisian locomotives
16:42<Nat_aS>and the even huger future MHD engines.
16:43<Nat_aS>is FISH and AV8 FIRS compatible?
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16:47<V453000>guess if FISH is when andy made it :)
16:47<@Alberth>s/if/whether/
16:49<V453000>guess "FISH andy" would have said enough :p
16:56<@Alberth>probably it would :)
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17:02<Nat_aS>should the oil refinery be connected to a fertalizer plant or plastics plant?
17:06<@Alberth>look it up in the industry chain window
17:06<Nat_aS>no i mean physicaly connected
17:07<Nat_aS>I'm making a big huge oil refinery pier (just a square penensula with a refinery and rounds around it
17:07<Nat_aS>and I am wondering if there should be annother factory on the pier,
17:07<Nat_aS>so you can have trucks driving back and forth
17:07<Nat_aS>and produce two kinds of cargos
17:08<@Alberth>http://www.tt-foundry.com/ <-- home of andy
17:08<@Alberth>should have all details about firs
17:10*CornishPasty licks the pixels
17:14-!-bremerjoe [57aec105@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
17:15<bremerjoe>Good evening everybody :)
17:15<@Alberth>hi
17:18<bremerjoe>Right to the point: Slowly working on translating more of the wiki again and I would need to update the pictures too. Not sure how to though. Manual of Style explains what I have to type to make the picture show up but do I have to upload it somewhere?
17:20<@Yexo>you can upload it to the wiki
17:21<bremerjoe>how?
17:21<@Yexo>bottom-left, in the "toolbox" there is a link called "upload file"
17:22<bremerjoe>even after reading this I had to search for more than a minute. ;) Thanks Yexo!
17:25<bremerjoe>When I am done with translating something and would like someone else to have a glance to see whether it is OK, how can I make sure somebody takes a peek? Do I have to notify someone? Or will someone eventually check what has been edited lately and then give feedback on the discussion page?
17:26<@Alberth>notify someone would work, or you can post a topic at the general forum
17:26<@Yexo>I guess you could open a topic on the forum
17:27<@Yexo>of course if there is someone you know is willing to read over your edits, notifying that person is much quicker
17:28<@Alberth>I thought the german translators also had a topic, but I cannot find it now :(
17:29-!-Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
17:29<@Alberth>although they mostly discuss how to translate certain things, afaik
17:30<@Alberth>good night all
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17:30<bremerjoe>no problem. Then I will either post my request here or PM someone. Would not want to spam the forum with that. Who would be a German native being rather active? I only know planetmaker being German?
17:30<bremerjoe>Bye Alberth
17:31<@Yexo>bremerjoe: please post on the forum if you don't already know a person is willing to review
17:31<@Yexo>it's not spam, it's a valid request
17:31<bremerjoe>OK
17:31<@Alberth>and much more friendly than harassing a person you don't really know
17:31<@Yexo>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=39481 <- that topic
17:32<@Alberth>indeed :)
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17:33<Ammler>or tt-ms.de
17:36<bremerjoe>Thanks all. Bookmarked the link accordingly. :)
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17:45<Wolf01>hello
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18:16<frosch123>night
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18:28<bremerjoe>Bye all!
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19:07<FLHerne>Hmm. Are the forums down for anyone else?
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19:20<Zuu>No
19:20<Zuu>There is a nightly backup but it only lasts for 5 minutes or so.
19:35<@Terkhen>good night
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20:06<Wolf01>nighty night
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20:39<Nat_aS> so, if scenerios are savegames, why can't you build things in them
20:39<Nat_aS>like tracks and trains?
20:39<Nat_aS>and airports?
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20:49<Rhamphoryncus>Because there's no players yet? And then you'd just have a savegame ;)
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21:08<Nat_aS>i mean why can't you make a secenario with players already existing
21:14<Rhamphoryncus>just use a savegame
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>just play the game as player X and rename it into .scn again
21:18<Rhamphoryncus>with some cheats about the only things you can't do is place oceans and place rivers/lakes
21:26<V453000>and the new editor signs :p
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22:06<Nat_aS>no way to adjust the snowline?
22:06<Nat_aS>in scenerio editor?
22:07<Nat_aS>also, no way to controll how towns will expand other than trimming them each time you press expand?
22:09<Rhamphoryncus>there's an option to turn off road building entirely
22:09<Rhamphoryncus>Dunno if that is affected by the expand button
22:10<Nat_aS>i don't think so
22:10<Nat_aS>let me check
22:10<Nat_aS>altohugh I think the most anoying thing is the tendency to build skyscrapers everywhere
22:10<Nat_aS>in a town you just made
22:13<Rhamphoryncus>Depends on the year and the size of the town
22:14<Rhamphoryncus>Maybe year is only with newgrfs
22:15<Rhamphoryncus>I found that the scenario editor didn't create as many tall buildings as normal gameplay would
22:27<V453000>just let the game run for a while, it will fill them rather quickly
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 23 00:00:06 2012