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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-04-01

---Logopened Sun Apr 01 00:00:27 2012
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02:06<@Terkhen>good morning
02:08<andythenorth>is it done yet?
02:09<Rubidium>your babies got into their next phase?
02:10<Rubidium>the "is it done yet"/"are we there yet"-phase ;)
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02:16<andythenorth>they didn't do that yet ;)
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02:43<KByte>does anyone know how to round a float to an integer in the NoAI interface?
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04:26*andythenorth solves it
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04:47<andythenorth>Alberth: o/
04:47<@Alberth>\o andy
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04:59<xiong>How do you like to depot? At stations or on the main? Interval, ordered, or forced?
04:59<mrfrenzy>at main
04:59<mrfrenzy>otherwise you will get trains going into the wrong stations
05:00<xiong>I've seen the wrong-station thing. But if maintenance is ordered or forced frequently, it's not an issue.
05:01<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.1.5 1.2.0?
05:01-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.5 1.2.0? | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever | English only
05:01<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.1.5, 1.2.0?
05:01-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.5, 1.2.0? | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever | English only
05:01<xiong>Also -- it seems -- a train must turn at a junction in order to hit a station not on its list. So depots available at jcts serve interval-depoted trains.
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05:02<xiong>I'm not pushing any scheme; I've tried several and all have pros and cons.
05:09<@Alberth>I have depots at every station, and every junction is connects every direction to every other direction. At long stretches, I also set up depots. No depot orders for the trains.
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05:21<Eddi|zuHause>(he forgot the "never service" option)
05:21<xiong>I don't like to order depoting; no matter how badly a train needs service, it will never depot if it has an order on its list.
05:22<xiong>I've tried a trick of placing a waypoint right in front of a depot and ordering via the wp. This has the benefits of ordered depoting without sacrificing the ability to depot at need.
05:23<xiong>I'm torn over the question of depoting at a station. Trains tend to jam up; it seems the depot facility -- depot itself and its tracks -- might be better a little ways off.
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05:41<Nat_aS>i put several depots at stations, and just tell trains to maintain as needed at nearest station.
05:42<Nat_aS>most of the time they just roll past it, and if they do need it, they can often use one without blocking trafic.
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06:38<drac_boy>is there an action or var for disabling a particular vehicle id when another specific grf is detected?
06:38<drac_boy>hi alberth how're you?
06:39<@Alberth>hungry, time for lunch :)
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: yes, skip the action 3 with an action 7/9 checking for the grf-id
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: (or more gracefully, set the climate availability to none)
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>of the "do not try this at home, kids" category: [german]
06:42<CornishPasty>Eddi|zuHause: got a translation? :(
06:42<drac_boy>alberth heh its not even breakfast here but :-p
06:43<drac_boy>thanks eddi
06:43<Eddi|zuHause>CornishPasty: basically: "what is jailbreak" - "you pick a hammer and beat your iphone" - "hey i'll try that" -- "you idiot!!!" - "you didn't really do that, right?" :p
06:44<MNIM>that's about what I got from it, too.
06:44<MNIM>...which means my german isn't as rusty as I thought.
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06:54<CornishPasty>Hahaha, nice Eddi|zuHause :P
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06:57<drac_boy>wonder what'll happen if you actually told someone to boot their computer
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07:24<Pulec>is 1.20 really out, or april?
07:25<Sacro>it's not like OpenTTD to release on April Fool's Day
07:25<Pulec>its rc-4 i see
07:27<drac_boy>sacro yeah especially after someone put a joke in the repo :)
07:27<drac_boy>I noticed that from CIA yesterday night :)
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07:38<drac_boy>hmm one more boat id left, to find something for that or leave it empty...heh
07:38*Alberth proposes wiebabiedoeda
07:38<drac_boy>a what?
07:39<@Alberth>not a good boat id?
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07:39<@Alberth>hi Pikka
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: you filled in all 64k boats? :)
07:48<drac_boy>eddi heh nope only id 204 to 213 ... 214 is still blank :)
07:48<drac_boy>alberth :p
07:50<drac_boy>hi pikka
07:51<drac_boy>hm think I figured out the last one...a cruise ship
07:57<Pikka>what are you making, drac_boy?
08:01<drac_boy>its something I've been working with someone else for a while for hmm well to put it bluntly a simple yet generic 'complete set' grf. not sure if it'll be for all climates or not yet
08:02<drac_boy>me draw a bit and make the tables, him draw some other things
08:08<drac_boy>don't know how far it might progress but you never know anyway :)
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08:16<drac_boy>hi andythenorth :-)
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08:18<drac_boy>how're you?
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10:02<drac_boy>finding details a little sketchy but I assume that industries only can have a maximum of 3 inputs and 2 outputs?
10:02<Pikka> correct
10:02<drac_boy>thanks as usual
10:09<drac_boy>if I don't sound too silly for asking, how do you make it that an output can be affected by an input? (like say more steel if you deliever coal in additional to ore)
10:15<drac_boy>hm thanks
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10:45<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea why... but this timetable only works as long as i watch it. as soon as i take my eyes off the line, and come back later to revisit it, everything is out of sync and blocking each other
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>and it can't recover from this state, unless i stop everything and start from scratch
10:46<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: schrodinger's timetable
10:47<andythenorth>it becomes statistical if no-one is looking
10:47<andythenorth>deterministic if watched
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10:51<Eddi|zuHause>i need a button: "skip one round trip" (instead of "reset delay")
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10:57<Eddi|zuHause>i think one of the problems is the rounding... 1 day isn't fine-grained enough for this kind of micro-synchronization
10:59<drac_boy>this reminds me of an article on the LIRR system in usa
11:00<Rhamphoryncus>Eddi: is that stock timetables?
11:00<drac_boy>at one of the main station the schedules were timetabled so eg track 1 had access to transfer to track 3 through a train held on train 2 ... so if anything went out of sync it sure caused a lot of mayhem
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>Rhamphoryncus: yes, no timetable patch
11:01<Rhamphoryncus>They use ticks internally
11:02<Rhamphoryncus>When autofilling it rounds to a day, but after that it's all ticks
11:02<Rhamphoryncus>Manual depot orders are one thing that corrupts them
11:04<Rhamphoryncus>I don't remember if I found any other reasons
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11:21<Eddi|zuHause>Rhamphoryncus: yes. and exactly the autofilling is the problem
11:21<Rhamphoryncus>how so?
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>Rhamphoryncus: it's not exact enough.
11:21<Rhamphoryncus>It rounds up
11:21<Rhamphoryncus>You just get some padding on the time
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes. and this means the actual arrival time varies up to one day
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>and that is too much
11:22<Rhamphoryncus>load times make more difference than that
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>load time is irrelevant, because the buffer times are high enough
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>i need to synchronize the arrival time at the junction
11:23<drac_boy>irrelevant? it can take 3+ days for certain trains to load
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>(i.e. a waypoint)
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: yes, and when i timetable 6 days wait times, the load time is irrelevant
11:24<Rhamphoryncus>So it's the departure time you care about
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>it's the arrival time
11:24<Rhamphoryncus>Departure controls arrival time. Arrival time is merely added to the load time
11:24<Rhamphoryncus>There is *no* effort to alter speed to match the desired arrival time
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but i cannot measure the travel time exactly enough
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>and once the variance is big enough so one train has to stop, it's over. the timetable will never recover from that
11:26<Rhamphoryncus>Then you're SOL. Arrival time is useless.
11:35<FlyingFoX>hi, i want to know a bit more how shared stations work. So if I got a bus stop outside the city (no houses in its range) and a Lorry Loading bay inside the city (houses in range) combined into one station, will this station provide passengers?
11:38<@Alberth>I think so, did you try it?
11:39<@Alberth>trying such things is usually quicker than asking
11:42<Pinkbeast>Every tile of a station equally forms the cachement area
11:43<drac_boy>the only one thing I hate about catchments at times is to do with industries that doesn't always accept on all given tiles
11:43<drac_boy>oh well
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i manually tweaked some times, now it seems to be performing better
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>now... finally tweaking that cargo network
11:55<drac_boy>buses....almost forgot about them -_-
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>they are quite important if you play with destinations :)
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11:59<drac_boy>heh well yeah I think I'll number six different generic ones at the moment..will look over it again later
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12:08<drac_boy>woud it be a good generic term or any better wording than 'highway bus' to differ it from larger buses for cities?
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12:17<drac_boy>nevermind, got to start lunch so I'm going
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12:21<Pikka>bitches don't know about my coach.
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12:32<Eddi|zuHause>i has new giant screenshot:,%2013.%20Apr%202027.png (12MB)
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>(hm, maybe i posted that too early)
12:45<Pikka>too early for what
12:46<andythenorth>too early for tea
12:46<Pikka>it's never too early for tea
12:46<Pikka>except it is here because it's 3am and there's no milk
12:46<andythenorth>black tea is acceptable
12:46<Pikka>that's a lot of ships
12:46<andythenorth>also...go to bed?
12:46<Pikka>only so much though, andy
12:47<Pikka>I only got up at... 7 something?
12:47<andythenorth>when I am awake at 3am, there's a baby-shaped reason
12:47<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: there are more hydrofoils in that one game than exist in the world :P
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's the only sane passenger ship :)
12:48<andythenorth>I like the island airports
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>aircraft are futile with yacd
12:49<andythenorth>you're still using the version of FIRS that makes my eyes bleed
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>i can't update firs midgame, in an ancient trunk/patch :)
12:49<andythenorth>you'd (probably) be safe updating FISH though
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>anyway... need to improve my cargo network... especially the seaport is a bottleneck
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12:52<andythenorth>multi-stop docks :P
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but i meant the rail part of the seaport :)
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>maybe i should fill the air with zeppelins :)
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>hauling cargo :)
12:54<Pikka>mad if you don't
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>two zeppelins could possibly replace one train
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>carrying oil with a zeppelin feels like cheating
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13:01<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause: Nice screenshot. Now I only wish that my browser had more than 1:1 and scale to window size. :-)
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: tried ctrl+scroll wheel yet? :)
13:03<Zuu>I tend to not use the scroll wheel as its only on the less confortable trackball.
13:04<Zuu>Hmm, but my tablet got a scroll ring that is quite useless, but also ctrl++ and ctrl+- on that image didn't play out well.
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>hm... bottleneck: only one loading spot on the oil rig :)
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13:07<Zuu>I like that you got differentiated track types with NuTracks and not just the best track all over.
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>no use having high speed track on the cargo network :)
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r24085 /trunk/src/lang/ (hungarian.txt latvian.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changes by Brumi
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: latvian - 15 changes by Parastais
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13:55<Rhamphoryncus>mmm invisible power booster abuse :D
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14:33<andythenorth>appearance of FIRS quarry is unsatisfactory
14:33<andythenorth>doesn't fit well with stations, even the CHIPS tile I made for it
14:34<Pikka>where is firs quarry?
14:35<Pikka>is that the that one?
14:35*Pikka gets hat
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14:36<Pikka>it's full of water, that's the problem!
14:36<andythenorth>too lazy to draw rocks :P
14:36<andythenorth>it's the left-edge with the processors that troubles me
14:36<Pikka>don't they normally only fill up with water when they stop using them (and stop pumping the water out)? :)
14:37<andythenorth>depends on the water table
14:37<andythenorth>and stuff
14:37<andythenorth>some gravel pits actually rely on the water being there and extract with floating grabs + barges
14:38<Pikka>nice petrol station
14:38<Pikka>can I steal it and smush it into one tile for a TaI house?
14:38<andythenorth>it has snow and crap too
14:38<andythenorth>want the psd?
14:39<Pikka>certainment. or even just the tile sprites
14:39<Pikka>lime kiln is fancy
14:40<Pikka>ta muchly
14:40<Pikka>I suppose this means I have to do snow for everything.
14:41<andythenorth>you could shirk it
14:41<Pikka>I could!
14:48<andythenorth>Pikka: psd if you want it:
14:48<andythenorth>loads of layers and crap
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15:01*andythenorth will redraw FIRS quarries
15:01<andythenorth>with a muddy edge
15:02<Pikka>how rare
15:02*Pikka will try to work out level crossing sprites
15:03<andythenorth>non-stop fun
15:06<andythenorth>too many UKRS grfs here
15:06<andythenorth>on my laptop
15:11<andythenorth>Pikka: can I haz extra UKRS wagons? :)
15:11<andythenorth>PCA, PGA, that scrap wagon thingy
15:11<Pikka>next time I update the addon grf?
15:12<andythenorth>I think I ran out of interesting UK wagons after those ones
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15:22<andythenorth>Pikka: it would be pretty easy to make the bogie twin-tank version of the PCA, but meh
15:23<Pikka>would it though, keeping it to 8/8?
15:24<andythenorth>maybe not
15:25<andythenorth>file it under 'meh'
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15:25<Pikka>meh for mehbe not
15:25<V453000>I dont think fitting that in 8/8 is viable
15:25<Pikka>hello drac_boy
15:26<Pikka>"coach" is the word you were looking for
15:26<andythenorth>hmm, JGA
15:26<Pikka>nice boogie hooper
15:26<Pikka>long slopes though
15:26<Pikka>would have to be steeper in ottd
15:27<andythenorth>if it seems like a good idea next time I think of it, I'll draw it :P
15:27<drac_boy>pikka ah, ok thanks
15:28<drac_boy>andythenorth for ukrs I'm guessing?
15:29<Pikka>I should really include coaches in HQOUS
15:29<Pikka>what was that one with two front axles?
15:29<Pikka>my road vehicle set reborn, drac_boy
15:30<Pikka>small teeny vehicles, my plan is to keep redrawing everything in UKRS smaller and smaller
15:30<Pikka>until eventually everything's one pixel. it'll make life much easier
15:30<Pikka>no andy
15:30<andythenorth>get it down to 1 pixel much easier
15:30<drac_boy>andythenorth humm I've tried ukrs2 in multiplayer a few times..don't see anything wrong with it but I guess I could complain about the certain gaps in the depot buy list tho
15:30<drac_boy>pikka one pixel? you're thinking atom-sized transportations :P
15:30<andythenorth>drac_boy: please tell me, maybe I can fix it :)
15:31<andythenorth>I don't want gaps in my set ;)
15:31<Pikka> , andy
15:32<andythenorth>chinese six
15:32<andythenorth>might have been in a certain film
15:32<andythenorth>with doors
15:33<Pikka>which were meant to be blown off with no further blowing off or up of any other things?
15:33<andythenorth>that sort of thing
15:33<andythenorth>grf idea: film vehicles
15:33<Pikka>sounds not very balanced
15:33<drac_boy>andythenorth the only two things that I could recall right now would be the lack of livestock transport option (dbsetxl had no problem disguising it as a milk cargo instead even), and too many locomotives being expired well before the 2040s although I don't think that can be blamed on the grf owner
15:34<Pikka>the buses that blow up if they go under 50mph might be difficult to code
15:34<andythenorth>Pikka: same for cruise ships
15:34<andythenorth>drac_boy: I'll fix it next time I release ukrs 2 ;)
15:34<drac_boy>you usually only end up with eg EMD66, GE 91, and a few others in the late years which does not help much with slower freight routes
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15:35<drac_boy>even the JB diesel disappears by then
15:35<drac_boy>andythenorth allright then :)
15:35<Pikka>how does the 66 not help much with slower freight routes?
15:35<drac_boy>pikka because its a bit too big and expensive for just 100 tonnes of steel?
15:35<andythenorth>drac_boy: it might be a long time before I next release ukrs 2 though :o
15:36<drac_boy>andythenorth thats ok, its not my prefered grf so I don't care too much :)
15:36<drac_boy>would help in multiplayer since they use ukrs a lot tho you know
15:36<andythenorth>also Pikka is the author ;)
15:36<Pikka>it's relatively cheap I thought. or you could electrify and use the tripworker :)
15:36<drac_boy>andythenorth I know, its just that you asked me so I had to tell you :p
15:37<drac_boy>I do wonder if BR actually had milk transport in the 21th century or not tho
15:38<Pikka>or livestock?
15:38<drac_boy>whichever one you want
15:38<Pikka>I doubt they transport much milk by the tankload any more, raw milk is all road transported and processed it's all containerised.
15:38<Pikka>-much +any
15:39<Pikka>livestock all road transported since the 1960s
15:39<andythenorth>truck set!
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15:39<Pikka>someone really should make one, andythenorth
15:39<andythenorth>I'll poke a bit more later
15:40<andythenorth>I need to figure out combining bodies and cabs
15:40<drac_boy>hmm well I guess that might be a consideration for HQOUS at least someone could start with mixed grain+livestock rail service to a farm in the 1900s but then by the 2000s they still can transport both..just grain by bulk rail and milk-aka-livestock by road
15:40<andythenorth>drawing that is over-rated :P
15:40<drac_boy>as it is right now you're totally stuck with absolutely no mean to expand your livestock transporting
15:40<drac_boy>just a random thought :-)
15:40<Pikka>you are, you can build trucks :)
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15:41<drac_boy>pikka problem is if you want ukrs2 scale then it'll have to be an eventual release of HQOUS
15:42<drac_boy>I can't imagine 4LV ever fitting in
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is that there is no gameplay reason to switch to trucks
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>trucks are tedious to manage, because so many are needed
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>and you can't guide them with signals
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>and they are slower
15:43<drac_boy>I never have a problem but then it might be because I use good ones?
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>and in danger of being run over by trains
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>and being blocked by competitors
15:46<Pikka>livestock trams?
15:46*drac_boy sends some 48km/h trams loaded with 300 tonnes of coals each into andythenorth
15:46<drac_boy>heh heh
15:48<drac_boy>mind if I ask you several a bit about steam locomotives in general?
15:50<drac_boy>pikka theres something else to think about in an if-it-ever-happened case...having a DB ICE3 in the ukrs2 addon considering that it'll probably actually run on the HS1/HS2 lines
15:51<drac_boy>I know its a foreign train but then so is the eurostar too
15:51<Pikka>and the eurostar isn't in UKRS2 either
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15:55<drac_boy>so anyhow as for my question .. I'm not trying to be too generic but this is what I was thinking of: 0-4-0 for light duty, 4-4-0 and 2-6-2T as medium, then 2-8-4 toward heavy. plus one small and one large garrats to add to the mix
15:55<drac_boy>still looking at some more photos and so to think about it. don't want to count a hundred locomotives which isn't so easy to do heh
15:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r24086 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#5131] (r23504): Cloning orders of aircraft with limited range failed.
15:57<Pikka>for a "light duty" engine you'd want an 0-6-0T at least. 0-4-0 tender locomotives haven't been built since the mid 19th century, 0-4-0Ts are the tiniest possible shunting locomotives.
15:58<Pikka>if you're looking at american style then even 0-6-0 is not common for a mainline locomotive, however light, it'd have to be a 2-6-0.
15:58<drac_boy>I had been pondering about if a 0-6-0 should had been the smallest. guess you finally answered that. thanks
15:59<drac_boy>yeah I've noticed that moguls were quite common
16:00<frosch123>@calc sqrt(1474576)
16:00<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 1214.32120957
16:00<Pikka>I knew that
16:01<frosch123>Pikka: does the 5th anniversary edition of av8 already contain aircraft ranges?
16:01<drac_boy>I know that garrats were more common in africa but I just had to add it for the sake of them being quite different. have the beyers-peacock K1 0-4-0+0-4-0 and a generic 2-6-2+2-6-2
16:02<Pikka>v2.1 released the other day does, frosch
16:02<frosch123>ok :)
16:02<andythenorth>5% battery
16:02<andythenorth>it always becomes a game of 'me versus time to find charger'
16:03<drac_boy>andythenorth heh I never get to less than 20% without having the cord handy or at least planning to hibernate soon :-)
16:05<drac_boy>so the other thing with steam, I'm not sure if I should offer 2-axle and/or bogie steam railmotors. or consider it a bit of a ridicilious idea and not add either
16:06<drac_boy>considering that as far as I even know they always numbered very few anywhere (even for uk too)
16:07<drac_boy>heh andythenorth thats a funny timing. I have the Contentional Rail Modelling magazine that reviewed that model together with one photo of the real thing :-)
16:08<drac_boy>so andythenorth what do you think? include a steam railmotor even although it'll be somewhat about the same as one light locomotive with a single carriage or two?
16:11<andythenorth>what set is this?
16:12<drac_boy>its kind of like a generic transport set grf, not really represent anything specific
16:12<drac_boy>already got quite a few non-locomotive sprites drawn, just have to make a small webpage for it at some point
16:13<andythenorth>for each vehicle, consider the gameplay benefit ahead of anything else ;)
16:13<andythenorth>followed by 'is it cool?'
16:13<andythenorth>only then 'realism' :P
16:14<drac_boy>heh heh well there'll be plenty of choices in the buy list but at least not too many to scroll through at the same time :)
16:15<drac_boy>as for gameplay yeah thats the easy part here :)
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16:16<drac_boy>andythenorth at least with diesel and electric its a bit easier..atm I have humm...
16:18<drac_boy>2-axle diesel-mechanical railbus, diesel-hydraulic railcar, electric railcar, articulated electric locomotive
16:18<drac_boy>the last one is a generic example of anything from talgo to tgv trains I recoken
16:23<drac_boy>andythenorth if you don't mind me asking you, do you think that using one single wagon id for most cargos seem like a bad idea or not so much?
16:24<andythenorth>depends on what you want your set to be like
16:24<andythenorth>what wagon is it? boxcar?
16:25*andythenorth -> bed
16:25<drac_boy>one generic wagon with several sprites...or a few different wagon for each different cargo classes
16:26<drac_boy>have a good sleep andythenorth? :-)
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16:32*drac_boy pulls out a bunch of rows
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16:41<drac_boy>guess its night in uk already
16:47<Rubidium>given 'night' is the time between sunset and sunrise, yes... it's already night there
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16:50<Eddi|zuHause>people haven't lived by that definition ever since the introduction of electric light...
16:51<Rubidium>but then... what is night?
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>when the majority of people in a given region are asleep :)
16:52<Rubidium>so the definition can jump by many hours depending on the day of the year?
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17:02<Rubidium>anyhow, with my definition parts of Canada starts with their night in roughly an hour, and in the winter it would already be night for almost 2.5 hours at that place
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17:06<Eddi|zuHause>where's the problem with that?
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>your definition of "night" definitely fails above the polar circle
17:07<Rubidium>that's the beauty ;)
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>and it's also varying by day of year
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17:16<Rubidium>moi moi
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17:58<Wolf01>'night all
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18:12<@Terkhen>good night
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18:24<sortkrudt_>wow. so many people just on tycoon.
18:24<sortkrudt_>lols =)
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19:35<drac_boy>supper done what heh
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21:58<drac_boy>I'm assume that if action 0 prop 1E (and 0D?) was set its possible to have houses without any of the usual PASS/MAIL cargos at all for custom games?
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22:17<drac_boy>hmm looks like might have to postpone that, silly wiki just went dead suddenly
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 02 00:00:28 2012