| --- | Log | opened Thu Apr 12 00:00:58 2012 |
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| 03:07 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Huh, didn't expect that to work |
| 03:07 | <NGC3982> | morning :) |
| 03:08 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Added a per-platform waiting bay to my congested station, as well as switching to presignals, and it now handles the traffic |
| 03:08 | <Rhamphoryncus> | ahoy :) |
| 03:09 | <Nat_aS> | pics? |
| 03:09 | <Rhamphoryncus> | My guess is that the pathfinder has one weight for "train in the way", another for "platform in use", so in a full station as soon as one train finishes loading and starts moving it immediately becomes more desirable than the other still-in-use platforms |
| 03:09 | <Nat_aS> | also path signals are the best |
| 03:09 | <Nat_aS> | for everything. |
| 03:10 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I don't believe path vs block matters here |
| 03:12 | <Rhamphoryncus> | http://i.imgur.com/4mv7U.png |
| 03:12 | <Nat_aS> | FIRS works in tropical? |
| 03:13 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Without the waiting bays that entering train would still be waiting, as none of the platforms are actually free yet |
| 03:13 | <Rhamphoryncus> | yes? |
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| 03:32 | <dihedral> | good morning |
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| 05:26 | -!- | drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176111076.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd |
| 05:26 | <drac_boy> | hi |
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| 05:39 | -!- | pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-039-033.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd |
| 05:59 | -!- | FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd |
| 06:04 | <drac_boy> | hi FLHerne :-) |
| 06:05 | -!- | DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] |
| 06:15 | <FLHerne> | drac_boy: Hi :P |
| 06:20 | -!- | mal2 [~mal2@z529a.pia.fu-berlin.de] has joined #openttd |
| 06:20 | <drac_boy> | how're you? |
| 06:28 | <FLHerne> | ok |
| 06:28 | <FLHerne> | you? |
| 06:31 | <drac_boy> | ok for now heh |
| 06:32 | <FLHerne> | good |
| 06:33 | <drac_boy> | what you doing? |
| 06:34 | <FLHerne> | Typing on an IRC channel :P |
| 06:35 | <drac_boy> | heh so not busy with anything else atm? |
| 06:36 | <FLHerne> | Not very...I rewrote the last post of my screenshot thread, and now I'm waiting for OTTD to compile (again) |
| 06:36 | <FLHerne> | Then I can find all the bugs and break it differently :P |
| 06:37 | <drac_boy> | heh |
| 06:38 | <drac_boy> | which screenshot btw? |
| 06:38 | * | Rhamphoryncus knows a few bugs that need reporting |
| 06:39 | <FLHerne> | drac_boy: this one: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=58712 |
| 06:39 | <FLHerne> | Rhamphoryncus: I think most of my bugs are self-induced :| |
| 06:40 | <@planetmaker> | as long as it doesn't bug you too much ;-) |
| 06:40 | <@planetmaker> | </random comment from voice from off> |
| 06:41 | <drac_boy> | heh |
| 06:42 | <drac_boy> | btw FLHerne just wondering about it...would you like to play a chrillpatch game together? I didn't know you had it too |
| 06:44 | <FLHerne> | I'd like to...I'm afraid I can't host though, my ISP doesn't deal well with forwarding of unusual ports |
| 06:44 | <drac_boy> | actually..I was thinking of me :) |
| 06:45 | <FLHerne> | If you hosted, I'd join :P |
| 06:47 | <drac_boy> | heh ok |
| 06:47 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Bizarre looking station, 3rd screenshot here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=58712#p1000778 |
| 06:47 | <drac_boy> | FLHerne you partial about any grfs in particular or wouldn't care for whatever I've picked? |
| 06:47 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Bizarre by ottd standards I mean :) |
| 06:48 | <FLHerne> | drac_boy: UKRS2(+) is nice, I assume you have NARS or similar |
| 06:48 | <FLHerne> | No particular must-haves, except FISH possibly |
| 06:48 | <FLHerne> | Rhamphoryncus: What's so bizzarre about it? |
| 06:49 | <Rhamphoryncus> | It's not a high-volume roro |
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| 06:50 | <FLHerne> | I never use high-volume efficient things...did you see http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=156611 ? |
| 06:51 | <FLHerne> | Probably the least efficient station cluster ever :P |
| 06:52 | <Rhamphoryncus> | err.. yeah, I'd say so :) |
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| 07:32 | <xiong> | FLHerne, http://wiki.openttd.org/Image:Barclay-pax-station.jpg |
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| 07:45 | <FLHerne> | xiong: That's less ugly than normal for a loop station - I'll stick to my convoluted tangles though :P |
| 07:46 | <xiong> | I'm refining a few station designs, both terminal and through. I consider space efficiency critical, since I play with long trains and small spread. |
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| 08:34 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Woo, gmund mogs upgraded to 100 km/h |
| 08:35 | <Rhamphoryncus> | I'm picturing a bunch of teenagers driving pickups with lift kits and oversized tires |
| 08:40 | <drac_boy> | actually I don't know why they bothered.. the unimog should stay where it is as a slow go-about-anywhere-with-anything vehicle which was its good merit years ago |
| 08:40 | <drac_boy> | especially with the PTO options given |
| 08:40 | -!- | HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CA8A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd |
| 08:45 | <drac_boy> | I know of an article re someone with a Boss Unimog .. it had a pushbutton transmission instead of normal stick .. but either way it could happily chug up a 50 degree slope in either forward or reverse with a large pile of stones in rear |
| 08:45 | <drac_boy> | factory pickups would never ever be able to do that |
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| 08:51 | <xiong> | Dune Buggy? |
| 08:51 | <xiong> | Ah, I have it... Skateboard, capacity 1 passenger, refittable to 6 cans of beer. |
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| 09:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | something really weird happened to my kwin :/ |
| 09:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it somewhat crashed, but i can't get it to restart |
| 09:08 | <FLHerne> | Eddi|zuHause: Oh? Mine is stupidly unstable, but normally starts again...how did you crash it? |
| 09:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | happened when browsing in dolphin |
| 09:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i guess i should try to restart kde... |
| 09:10 | -!- | Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73D19.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] |
| 09:10 | <FLHerne> | Try restarting kwin fron the Dolphin console |
| 09:10 | <FLHerne> | It has a terminal emulator, running kwin from there might work |
| 09:11 | <dihedral> | Th0mash0f |
| 09:11 | <dihedral> | \o/ |
| 09:11 | <dihedral> | how often do i need to post my internal password ? :-D |
| 09:12 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Only once :) |
| 09:13 | <dihedral> | it's not like you could access the systems anyway :-D |
| 09:13 | <@peter1138> | yeah but |
| 09:14 | <@peter1138> | why are pringles so bloody expensive these days? |
| 09:16 | -!- | mal2 [~mal2@z529a.pia.fu-berlin.de] has joined #openttd |
| 09:17 | <DanMacK> | because they're so bloody good? |
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| 09:21 | <dihedral> | either you sell in huge quantity or you sell expensive :-P |
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| 09:23 | <@peter1138> | oztrans' been busy |
| 09:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | < FLHerne> Try restarting kwin fron the Dolphin console <-- i did try that |
| 09:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or... any console... |
| 09:25 | <FLHerne> | Oh, ok |
| 09:25 | <FLHerne> | Presumably didn't work, then? |
| 09:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | presumably |
| 09:26 | <FLHerne> | Did it say why it didn't work? |
| 09:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no... nothing... didn't even react on ^C |
| 09:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | neither on kill -15 |
| 09:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | only kill -9 |
| 09:30 | <FLHerne> | What distro are you using? |
| 09:33 | <FLHerne> | Kubuntu here seems stupidly unstable sometimes |
| 09:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i use opensuse |
| 09:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and i did not have this kind of problem before... |
| 09:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i mean kwin did crash before, but it usually came back, either immediately, or after manually starting it from a console |
| 09:36 | <FLHerne> | My kwin crashes every time I log in, and every time I log out, and occasionally in between... :P |
| 09:36 | <FLHerne> | But it always comes back, so far |
| 09:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no... it's really not that bad :p |
| 09:37 | -!- | Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 09:38 | <FLHerne> | Good. I'm slowly moving to Gentoo, but all the compiling takes ages |
| 09:39 | <FLHerne> | 10.10 was Ok, 11.10 is the least stable distro I've ever used |
| 09:40 | <FLHerne> | ...and that's including Debian Etch on a nubus-pmac kernel |
| 09:40 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'm really not desperate enough to revert to self-compiling... |
| 09:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and that doesn't increase the quality of KDE anyway... |
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| 09:42 | <FLHerne> | Yes, but if I'm going to switch distro, I may as well try something different :D |
| 09:43 | <FLHerne> | I finally have enough computing power to compile stuff in less than 10 years... |
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| 10:34 | <heffer> | FLHerne: go for Fedora :D |
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| 10:46 | <banned> | GMT+0900 |
| 10:47 | <banned> | http://www.naver.com/ |
| 10:48 | <banned> | :s |
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| 10:49 | <andythenorth> | @seen pikka |
| 10:49 | <@DorpsGek> | andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 18 hours, 19 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <Pikka> because you can't get the wood you know |
| 10:49 | <andythenorth> | blearch |
| 10:49 | <andythenorth> | minecrack |
| 10:52 | <banned> | yaho |
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| 10:55 | <andythenorth> | It's interesting that Simuscape is being referred to as 'a development community like Simuscape' |
| 10:55 | <andythenorth> | maybe a schism just happened :) |
| 10:57 | * | andythenorth wonders if tt-forums is no longer the default all-encompassing community |
| 10:57 | -!- | drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176111076.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd |
| 10:57 | <drac_boy> | hi |
| 11:00 | <Rubidium> | bonjour |
| 11:00 | <__ln__> | drac_boy: the canadian is causing trouble over here, can we send him back? |
| 11:01 | <drac_boy> | which one? |
| 11:01 | -!- | teggi [teggi@215.185.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd |
| 11:01 | <__ln__> | Stephen Elop |
| 11:01 | <drac_boy> | no idea who that is sorry |
| 11:01 | <drac_boy> | hi rubidium |
| 11:01 | <__ln__> | drac_boy: CEO of some insignificant cell phone manufacturer. |
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| 11:07 | <bann> | werfd |
| 11:07 | <bann> | d |
| 11:07 | <bann> | gfd |
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| 11:33 | * | drac_boy gives andythenorth some parts for the Detriot Diesel engine block |
| 11:33 | <drac_boy> | heh heh |
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| 12:13 | <XxXDukeXxX> | HI |
| 12:13 | <XxXDukeXxX> | I want to know is there something i can do (while afk) so that my Company doesn`t go bankruptcy? |
| 12:14 | <DanMacK> | Pause the game? |
| 12:14 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Singleplayer you can just pause it |
| 12:15 | <Rhamphoryncus> | But once established a company doesn't typically ever lose money |
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| 12:49 | <+michi_cc> | Eddi|zuHause: Any other useful patches you can recall that are not in http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/openttd.git/shortlog/refs/heads/stage ? |
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| 13:08 | <@Terkhen> | hello |
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| 13:09 | <andythenorth> | michi_cc: Eddi|zuHause made me a really nice game-speed patch |
| 13:09 | <andythenorth> | at the end of each year, it reset the date back a year (once only per year) |
| 13:10 | <Nat_aS> | yeah, OTTD is one of the safest games to leave running |
| 13:10 | <Nat_aS> | assuming your network is stable |
| 13:10 | <andythenorth> | I maintain that approach is the most robust solution to game progression, way better than arsing about with daylength :D |
| 13:11 | <andythenorth> | it does mean that vehicle availability flaps around a bit :P |
| 13:11 | <Nat_aS> | lol |
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| 13:11 | <FLHerne> | I do that already, the cheat menu works fine :D |
| 13:11 | <Nat_aS> | or just set all vehicles to never expire and live in anachronism land |
| 13:12 | <Nat_aS> | get trains, fuck dates |
| 13:12 | <Nat_aS> | i mean Fuck dates get trains |
| 13:17 | <FLHerne> | Does anyone here use KATE for editing source files? |
| 13:18 | <oskari89> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?uid=23205&f=32&t=52613 |
| 13:19 | <frosch123> | FLHerne: i used it in kde3 |
| 13:19 | <oskari89> | I would like patch which could draw rivers with a special color used on heightmaps :P |
| 13:20 | <oskari89> | Since Finnish scenarios have 10^5 lakes.... |
| 13:20 | <oskari89> | Pain in arse when placing them all manually in scenery editor :P |
| 13:22 | <@planetmaker> | oskari89: that sounds like a subset of a new scenario format ;-) |
| 13:23 | <@Terkhen> | yeah... something like that was planned for the new format |
| 13:23 | <@Terkhen> | it would be great :) |
| 13:23 | <oskari89> | Could someone take that feature to work? |
| 13:23 | <oskari89> | I can't do C++, unfortunately :P |
| 13:23 | <@Terkhen> | not me, it seems :) |
| 13:24 | <@Terkhen> | I have been too uninspired with OpenTTD for a while |
| 13:24 | <@Terkhen> | and the new scenario format is not precisely a small feature |
| 13:24 | <andythenorth> | Terkhen: have you heard of a new game? |
| 13:24 | <andythenorth> | it's called minecraft :P |
| 13:25 | <@Terkhen> | I know about it, but it never caught my attention |
| 13:25 | <oskari89> | OpenTTD ("under the hood") developing needs a kick from something, it's slowly declining... Like TTDPatch :P |
| 13:25 | * | andythenorth has been avoiding minecraft |
| 13:26 | <andythenorth> | oskari89: ottd is dying |
| 13:26 | <oskari89> | Why? |
| 13:26 | <andythenorth> | many reasons |
| 13:26 | <oskari89> | Too mature form? |
| 13:26 | <andythenorth> | it's done |
| 13:26 | <andythenorth> | for one |
| 13:26 | <oskari89> | No, it's not :P |
| 13:26 | <andythenorth> | entropy is another |
| 13:27 | <andythenorth> | all things are dying |
| 13:27 | <@Terkhen> | adding new features becomes increasingly complicated with time |
| 13:27 | <andythenorth> | it has very no problems left which attract developers |
| 13:27 | <andythenorth> | very no? |
| 13:27 | <andythenorth> | very few |
| 13:28 | <andythenorth> | there are very few people who can review patches |
| 13:28 | <andythenorth> | the community is increasingly retarded and fractious |
| 13:28 | <andythenorth> | but most of all it's kind of done |
| 13:28 | <andythenorth> | we won |
| 13:29 | <andythenorth> | we beat ttdpatch |
| 13:29 | <andythenorth> | the losers have gone off in a huff |
| 13:29 | <andythenorth> | there's no meta-game left to play |
| 13:29 | <FLHerne> | Is a meta-game necessary |
| 13:29 | <oskari89> | There needs to be more! |
| 13:29 | <FLHerne> | ? |
| 13:30 | <andythenorth> | collaborative open source is a social meta-game |
| 13:30 | <FLHerne> | I'm repetitively breaking my local copy because I want shiny features, not because of a meta-game :P |
| 13:30 | <@Terkhen> | it never has been about beating anyone |
| 13:30 | <andythenorth> | and for ottd, it's (1) hard to start playing (2) there's no easy early win conditions |
| 13:30 | <oskari89> | http://wiki.openttd.org/Requested_features |
| 13:30 | <@planetmaker> | oskari89: it's not trivial to make good patches and write them well |
| 13:31 | <oskari89> | Yes :P |
| 13:31 | <@planetmaker> | maybe the standards also got higher over the years. Most probable actually |
| 13:31 | <oskari89> | But the list of requested features is long, there's much left to do :P |
| 13:31 | <andythenorth> | nobody can get to level 1 any more |
| 13:32 | <andythenorth> | the meta-game is too hard |
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| 13:32 | <oskari89> | Developement shouldn't stop, chillcore's patchpack shows it :P |
| 13:32 | <andythenorth> | good game design (usually) requires making it easy for players to achieve early and keep playing |
| 13:32 | <andythenorth> | shouldn't? maybe? will? probably |
| 13:32 | <oskari89> | More integrated help? |
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| 13:32 | <oskari89> | And tutorials maybe? |
| 13:33 | <@Terkhen> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=57624 |
| 13:33 | <@planetmaker> | the game script interface is meant to work as tutorial, too |
| 13:33 | <@planetmaker> | there exists a project start for that |
| 13:33 | <@Terkhen> | already possible, NoGo can be used to add a lot of things to the game |
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| 13:33 | <werson2> | hol |
| 13:33 | <werson2> | hola |
| 13:33 | <werson2> | alguien abale spañol |
| 13:33 | <@Terkhen> | I hope to get interested again once that we start seeing interesting NoGo scripts |
| 13:34 | <@planetmaker> | this is an English only channel... |
| 13:34 | <werson2> | spanis |
| 13:34 | <werson2> | spain |
| 13:34 | <andythenorth> | there was a spree of awesome commits earlier this year |
| 13:34 | <andythenorth> | lot of awesome new stuff got added |
| 13:34 | <werson2> | español |
| 13:34 | <@Terkhen> | werson2: check your private messages, I'm talking to you |
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| 13:35 | <@Terkhen> | andythenorth: OpenTTD development goes in waves, "near release" is the minimum |
| 13:35 | <@Terkhen> | oh well, he couldn't answer my private message |
| 13:35 | <@planetmaker> | lol |
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| 13:36 | <@Terkhen> | and I wasn't going to explain him how to open private messages in IRC in the public channel using spanish :) |
| 13:36 | * | andythenorth remains a NoGo doubter. Or fence sitter |
| 13:36 | <andythenorth> | 'doubter' is unfair |
| 13:36 | <@Terkhen> | NoGo can and will be awesome, we just need someone to start making crazy scripts :P |
| 13:37 | <andythenorth> | I should play the game and see what NoGo does |
| 13:37 | <andythenorth> | is it still server only? |
| 13:37 | * | andythenorth is out of touch :P |
| 13:37 | * | andythenorth hasn't played the game for months and months |
| 13:38 | <@Terkhen> | to my knowledge it can be loaded for single player games too |
| 13:38 | <andythenorth> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genchi_Genbutsu |
| 13:38 | <FLHerne> | Hmm...is removing assertions because they fail annoyingly a good idea? |
| 13:39 | <andythenorth> | not usually |
| 13:39 | <@planetmaker> | FLHerne: they're there to fail. And stop worse things happening |
| 13:39 | <andythenorth> | replacing them with new, correct assertions might be a good idea |
| 13:39 | <@planetmaker> | If they fail, something went wrong. E.g. a function is called under wrong circumstances or with invalid parameters |
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| 13:40 | <andythenorth> | assertions here are ~= unit tests? |
| 13:40 | * | andythenorth assumes |
| 13:40 | <@planetmaker> | like assert(company_id < max_companies) |
| 13:40 | <@planetmaker> | calling it with 17 would certainly cause an invalid read. somewhen and somewhere. or even write |
| 13:40 | <FLHerne> | Well, it doesn't seem to crash when I remove the assertion, so possibly I got the assertion wrong :P |
| 13:40 | <@Terkhen> | asserts are used to check things that NEVER should be true |
| 13:41 | <@Terkhen> | if you patched OpenTTD, that particular assertion might not be needed anymore |
| 13:41 | <@planetmaker> | FLHerne: removing them might not have any immediate effect. But side-effects not immediately or apparently visible |
| 13:41 | <@Terkhen> | or maybe the patch creator introduced an error and the assert is doing its work |
| 13:41 | <@planetmaker> | what Terkhen says. Depends on what you do |
| 13:41 | <@Terkhen> | who knows? :) |
| 13:41 | <@planetmaker> | the patch creator *should* know :-) |
| 13:42 | <FLHerne> | planetmaker/Terkhen: True, I will keep testing it :P |
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| 13:42 | <@Terkhen> | with a stable (or trunk) OpenTTD, assertions should never be triggered, they are there to prevent developers from destroying something without noticing |
| 13:42 | <@Terkhen> | since development is frozen for stables, they are deemed "safe" in this regard and assertions are disabled for them |
| 13:45 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: translators * r24113 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt traditional_chinese.txt): |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 3 changes by chaut0 |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: french - 6 changes by OliTTD |
| 13:45 | * | andythenorth is way more motivated when pikka is here |
| 13:45 | <andythenorth> | he makes it fun :P |
| 13:45 | <FLHerne> | Ok..I probably did need it. Pesky segmentation faults :-( |
| 13:45 | <@Terkhen> | coop trolling? |
| 13:45 | * | andythenorth is not chief fun spreader |
| 13:46 | * | andythenorth has become spreader of grumpiness and doom :P |
| 13:46 | <andythenorth> | Terkhen: how is your job? :) |
| 13:46 | <andythenorth> | do you write code? |
| 13:47 | <@Terkhen> | not as much as I would like, most of the time I'm doing test protocols |
| 13:47 | <@Terkhen> | boring and tedious :P |
| 13:47 | <andythenorth> | documenting? or writing automated tests? |
| 13:47 | <andythenorth> | or running tests? |
| 13:47 | <@Terkhen> | automated test? I would like that |
| 13:48 | <@Terkhen> | no, they are documents that I have to follow |
| 13:48 | <andythenorth> | what kind of software is it? embedded? shrinkwrap? client-server? web? |
| 13:48 | <@Terkhen> | client-server |
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| 13:49 | <andythenorth> | it's manually tested simply because there's no automation? or for other reasons? |
| 13:50 | <@planetmaker> | in one of andy's recommended web pages it is then suggested to spend 10% of the working time on getting it automated (assuming andy's assumption above is true) |
| 13:50 | <@Terkhen> | there is some automated testing for the server side, the test protocols are mostly for GUI stuff and checking some key functionalities |
| 13:51 | <@Terkhen> | GUI tests can't be automated very easily |
| 13:51 | <andythenorth> | is it a client for a windowing system? |
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| 13:51 | <@Terkhen> | yes |
| 13:51 | <@Terkhen> | I had to write some JUnit tests, it was fun |
| 13:52 | <@Terkhen> | specially when I discovered mock classes |
| 13:53 | <andythenorth> | Terkhen: you need a chaos monkey http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Monkey_Lives.txt |
| 13:53 | <andythenorth> | most OSes have some form of GUI scripting |
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| 13:53 | <andythenorth> | if it's browser based, Selenium is your friend |
| 13:54 | * | andythenorth was also reading this today about continuous integration, nothing new, but interesting anyway http://leanbuilds.wordpress.com/tag/stop-the-line/ |
| 13:55 | <@Terkhen> | many people are mostly following test protocols... if they were automated they would less people :P |
| 13:55 | <@Terkhen> | would need* |
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| 13:55 | <andythenorth> | that's a common fallacy :P |
| 13:55 | <andythenorth> | they could use the same people to write valuable code |
| 13:56 | <andythenorth> | thereby shipping faster, or better |
| 13:56 | <@Terkhen> | that would be nice, yup |
| 13:58 | <andythenorth> | or you could spend the saved time in meetings :P |
| 13:58 | <andythenorth> | reality is the time will be spent maintaining automated tests :P |
| 13:58 | <@planetmaker> | :-D |
| 13:58 | <andythenorth> | but you can run more of them faster, and with fewer mistakes and defects |
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| 14:05 | <@Terkhen> | talking about automation... we use CVS |
| 14:05 | <andythenorth> | you can't move to svn for legacy reasons? |
| 14:05 | <andythenorth> | or cultural? |
| 14:05 | <@Terkhen> | no idea |
| 14:06 | <@Terkhen> | they just use CVS :P |
| 14:06 | <@planetmaker> | CVS? :-( |
| 14:06 | <andythenorth> | we tried CVS |
| 14:06 | <andythenorth> | "it's just not SVN" |
| 14:06 | <andythenorth> | :P |
| 14:06 | <@Terkhen> | for someone accustomed to mercurial, it is quite a shock |
| 14:06 | <andythenorth> | "SVN: like CVS, but it works" |
| 14:06 | <@planetmaker> | it's about... as ancient as a Coelacanth |
| 14:06 | <@Terkhen> | when the project started, SVN did not exist |
| 14:07 | <@Terkhen> | :P |
| 14:07 | <frosch123> | Terkhen: CVS is even a shock for svn users |
| 14:07 | <frosch123> | but maybe you can ask about using RCCS instead :p |
| 14:07 | <andythenorth> | although it seems ancient, SVN is a relatively recent innovation |
| 14:08 | <andythenorth> | I read 'history of version control' last year somewhere |
| 14:08 | <frosch123> | [20:06] <Terkhen> when the project started, SVN did not exist <- my company converted all cvs repos to svn some years ago |
| 14:08 | <andythenorth> | a lot of version control stuff was very theoretical until (relatively) recently |
| 14:08 | <andythenorth> | or maybe I'm just old |
| 14:09 | <andythenorth> | yeah, SVN is 2000 |
| 14:09 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: you are correct, cvs is a lot older than svn |
| 14:09 | <andythenorth> | 2000 still seems 'modern' to me |
| 14:09 | <frosch123> | 2000? i would have though 2003 or so |
| 14:09 | <@Terkhen> | frosch123: I know it is possible, I mentioned that they still use cvs after andy suggested moving from test documents to automated tests :P |
| 14:09 | <andythenorth> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Subversion |
| 14:10 | <frosch123> | but if it is 2000, then cvs might be only twice as old.... |
| 14:10 | <andythenorth> | 1986 |
| 14:10 | <frosch123> | wiki says 1990 |
| 14:11 | <andythenorth> | oh yes |
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| 14:11 | <andythenorth> | 'shell scripts in 1986' |
| 14:11 | <andythenorth> | 1986 is definitely 'old' |
| 14:11 | <andythenorth> | I'm not sure I was writing code in 1986 |
| 14:11 | <andythenorth> | maybe "ch. chuckie" |
| 14:11 | <andythenorth> | or so on |
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| 14:12 | <frosch123> | rcs is 1982, sccs is 1972 |
| 14:13 | <XxXDukeXxX> | Hi guys ;) anyone know a site where i can rent a openttd server :P? |
| 14:13 | <andythenorth> | someone sell him a server, quick |
| 14:13 | <XxXDukeXxX> | :P^^ |
| 14:13 | <andythenorth> | what happened to the plan to charge $2 for newgrfs btw? |
| 14:14 | <oskari89> | What? |
| 14:14 | <andythenorth> | me and pikka invented it |
| 14:14 | <andythenorth> | mostly me |
| 14:14 | <andythenorth> | so we could be rich |
| 14:14 | <oskari89> | Pay for newgrfs :O |
| 14:15 | <andythenorth> | $2 |
| 14:15 | <oskari89> | WTF? |
| 14:15 | <andythenorth> | pay for download via bananas |
| 14:15 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth: but as appstore OpenTTD gets 30% |
| 14:15 | <andythenorth> | yes |
| 14:15 | <oskari89> | *facepalm* |
| 14:15 | <andythenorth> | I thought rubidium would negotiate harder actually |
| 14:15 | <oskari89> | But why? |
| 14:15 | <andythenorth> | I assumed he had Steve Jobs-like negotiation skills, and would take 50% |
| 14:15 | <andythenorth> | I assumed paypal fees would be 30% because Paypal are fuckers :P |
| 14:16 | <andythenorth> | leaving me and pikka with 20% between us |
| 14:16 | <XxXDukeXxX> | but really is there no company where i can rent a openttd server? i was @ serverFFS but i dont get the activation emails :P |
| 14:16 | <andythenorth> | pikka has about 1m downloads, and I (with a lot of help) have 700k |
| 14:16 | <andythenorth> | so we'd be rich |
| 14:17 | <oskari89> | The main thing was free of charges for everything :P |
| 14:17 | <@planetmaker> | XxX there are no pre-setup OpenTTD servers as far as I know |
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| 14:17 | <@planetmaker> | but any VPS will do. Preferrably if it runs linux |
| 14:17 | <@planetmaker> | make for easier administration |
| 14:17 | <@Terkhen> | XxXDukeXxX: to my knowledge there is no specific company but ^ |
| 14:17 | <XxXDukeXxX> | damn :P is it easy ? |
| 14:17 | <oskari89> | andythenorth: What would you do with that money? |
| 14:18 | <andythenorth> | make newgrfs of course |
| 14:18 | <@planetmaker> | XxXDukeXxX: depends on where you start from |
| 14:18 | <@Terkhen> | it will be easy as soon as someone takes advantage of the admin port to write a cool program :) |
| 14:18 | <XxXDukeXxX> | :P i just made a server on my comp but thats easy ^^ |
| 14:18 | <andythenorth> | pikka could make newgrfs full time |
| 14:18 | <@planetmaker> | XxXDukeXxX: doing it on a VPS is not (much) more difficult, if it is already a properly setup VPS |
| 14:19 | <andythenorth> | I have too much fun in my job, but I could pay minions to make my newgrfs :P |
| 14:19 | <oskari89> | Andythenorth: If you ever make money with those, i would see that money would be paid for artists too :P |
| 14:19 | <XxXDukeXxX> | hm ok well then i go look for a little vps :P |
| 14:19 | <XxXDukeXxX> | thx you all ;) |
| 14:19 | <andythenorth> | what are artists? |
| 14:20 | <oskari89> | If someone other has contributed to your sprites? |
| 14:20 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth: doubtful. Even if we assume that 10% of the downloads would be paid for it, it'd be a few thousand € |
| 14:20 | <@planetmaker> | probably not enough for a year to live on |
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| 14:20 | <andythenorth> | millions! |
| 14:20 | <andythenorth> | we'll be rich :) |
| 14:20 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 14:20 | <andythenorth> | but we'll have to spend most of it on customer support :P |
| 14:21 | <andythenorth> | and an OS X developer |
| 14:21 | <frosch123> | yeah, developing a proper osx would be an idea |
| 14:21 | <@planetmaker> | :-P |
| 14:22 | <frosch123> | [20:20] <andythenorth> we'll be rich :) <- instead of money you should rather reach for real values, e.g. cakes |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | the joy of money is that is convertible into useful stuff |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | like cakes |
| 14:23 | <@planetmaker> | :-) Or make ot postcard-ware |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | money in itself is pretty pointless |
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| 14:23 | <@planetmaker> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postcardware |
| 14:23 | <oskari89> | If i had millions of money, i would hire at least one full-time coder to work with patches which i want go to trunk :P |
| 14:23 | <frosch123> | yeah, you are reliying on always finding someone stupid enough to give you something useful for the money |
| 14:24 | <andythenorth> | oskari89: that probably wouldn't work |
| 14:24 | <oskari89> | Why? |
| 14:24 | <andythenorth> | they'd still need reviewing |
| 14:24 | <frosch123> | yup, and there is noone doing fulltime review |
| 14:24 | <oskari89> | And one OTTD Dev ;) |
| 14:24 | <frosch123> | also it would not be ottd anymore :p |
| 14:24 | <oskari89> | Why? |
| 14:25 | <oskari89> | I would like to spend money (if i had loads of it) to OpenTTD developing :P |
| 14:25 | <@Terkhen> | besides developing, careful consideration of what should and should not be included is what made OpenTTD what it is now |
| 14:25 | <frosch123> | for ottd tons of stuff is discussed. that would fail if there is only one spending all day on it |
| 14:26 | <frosch123> | it would be a one-man-show instead of a shared-effort |
| 14:29 | <oskari89> | Mm.. |
| 14:29 | <telanus> | Is anybody active with the Afrikaans Translation? |
| 14:29 | <frosch123> | you could pay somenoe to create graphics |
| 14:29 | <oskari89> | Better choice would be funding current devs for to accelerate their work :P |
| 14:29 | <frosch123> | but it would be a separate grf, no option for opengfx etc |
| 14:30 | <andythenorth> | frosch123: fork! |
| 14:30 | <@Terkhen> | telanus: it has many untranslated strings (196) so my guess is that it does not |
| 14:30 | <@Terkhen> | let me check how much time has passed since the last translated string |
| 14:31 | <telanus> | I could, Since it's my home Language |
| 14:31 | <@Terkhen> | nice, if you are interested check http://translator.openttd.org/en/faq |
| 14:31 | <@Terkhen> | that page explains what you need to do |
| 14:31 | <oskari89> | Funding patchmakers would be another option also :P |
| 14:32 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: yeah, it would be the death of ottd :p |
| 14:32 | <frosch123> | funny, isn't it? if you want ottd to die, just pay someone to work on it :p |
| 14:32 | <andythenorth> | he |
| 14:32 | <andythenorth> | money changes everything |
| 14:32 | * | andythenorth once did a competition to make something with about 9 other people |
| 14:32 | <andythenorth> | we won |
| 14:33 | <andythenorth> | there were only enough prizes for about 6 people |
| 14:33 | <andythenorth> | this caused...problems |
| 14:33 | <frosch123> | lol |
| 14:33 | <andythenorth> | but we didn't get into it for the prizes |
| 14:33 | <andythenorth> | we got into it for fun |
| 14:33 | <oskari89> | Well... |
| 14:34 | <andythenorth> | but putting all that aside... |
| 14:34 | <andythenorth> | $2 for bananas |
| 14:34 | <oskari89> | I assume if you are going to make money with those, there will be others too following you :P |
| 14:34 | <andythenorth> | oskari89: all grfs would be $0.99 - $1.99 |
| 14:34 | <andythenorth> | in US $ |
| 14:34 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth: but... why? |
| 14:34 | <oskari89> | Paypal? |
| 14:34 | <andythenorth> | we'll bill that way due to currency risk in certain other currencies |
| 14:35 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: why not :D |
| 14:35 | <@Terkhen> | because GPL :P |
| 14:35 | <@Terkhen> | at least in your case ;) |
| 14:35 | <andythenorth> | GPL allows sale |
| 14:36 | <@Terkhen> | it does, along with many other rights |
| 14:36 | <@planetmaker> | OpenTTD itself has not need to make that profit. Thus we have no need to invest time in that part of the software. ... The problem with that idea is: "if you ask for money you need to guarantee service" |
| 14:36 | <@Terkhen> | telanus: last change to afrikaans was in 2012-02-27 |
| 14:37 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 14:37 | <andythenorth> | maybe we should try crowdfunding |
| 14:37 | <andythenorth> | it's very popular atm |
| 14:37 | <@planetmaker> | would probably work even |
| 14:37 | <andythenorth> | but the SVN page links to this older version of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BountySource |
| 14:37 | <__ln__> | People are not prepared to pay such huge amounts as $1.99. |
| 14:37 | <@Terkhen> | what would we use the money for? |
| 14:37 | <andythenorth> | cakes |
| 14:37 | <oskari89> | And should payment be one-time only or pay for each update :P |
| 14:38 | <telanus> | Thanx Terkhen |
| 14:38 | <@planetmaker> | pay-per-play |
| 14:38 | <@planetmaker> | by the minue |
| 14:38 | <andythenorth> | I think frosch123 already established that the goal is 'cake' |
| 14:38 | <@planetmaker> | *minute |
| 14:38 | <@Terkhen> | cakes are not expensive |
| 14:38 | <andythenorth> | gold cakes |
| 14:38 | <@Terkhen> | yeah, portal did that |
| 14:38 | <andythenorth> | also, we could buy TTDPatch and merge it |
| 14:38 | <frosch123> | cool idea |
| 14:38 | <andythenorth> | how much does TTDP cost? |
| 14:39 | <oskari89> | :D |
| 14:39 | <andythenorth> | we could buy Atari! |
| 14:39 | <oskari89> | I assume, that when someone makes money with OpenTTD, Atari sues someone in lawsuit, copying TTD in commercial terms or so :P |
| 14:40 | <andythenorth> | not if we pre-emptively buy Atari |
| 14:40 | <andythenorth> | as a defensive measure |
| 14:40 | <andythenorth> | but otherwise maybe :P |
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| 14:40 | <@Terkhen> | TTDPatch is (to my knowledge) GPL, so it is compatible with OpenTTD already |
| 14:40 | <andythenorth> | we should merge them in that case |
| 14:40 | <frosch123> | cool, then we only need to pay someone to merge it :p |
| 14:41 | <@Terkhen> | not that assembly code will help you at all to write C++ code, besides for checking how they do things |
| 14:41 | <andythenorth> | I requested a list of what needs to be merged |
| 14:41 | <andythenorth> | as it is apparently a serious and important goal |
| 14:41 | <@Terkhen> | yeah, someone requested custom bridgeheads recently too :) |
| 14:41 | <@Terkhen> | what else was missing? |
| 14:41 | <andythenorth> | Terkhen: apparently much |
| 14:42 | <andythenorth> | apparently the list is so long that it is taking a very long time to make it |
| 14:42 | <@Terkhen> | what list? |
| 14:42 | <oskari89> | http://wiki.openttd.org/Comparison_of_OpenTTD_and_TTDPatch_features |
| 14:42 | <@Terkhen> | who is doing it? |
| 14:42 | <@Terkhen> | oskari89: that page is outdated |
| 14:43 | <andythenorth> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=47238&start=380 |
| 14:43 | <andythenorth> | Captain Rand agreed it was a good idea |
| 14:43 | <andythenorth> | and he has set the goal for version 2.0 |
| 14:43 | <@Terkhen> | ~25 different town growth controls <--- for example, OpenTTD now has NoGo, which means scriptable town growth |
| 14:43 | <frosch123> | how many town growth controls does nogo equal? :p |
| 14:44 | <andythenorth> | tickbox feature war? |
| 14:44 | <andythenorth> | 'this one goes to 11' |
| 14:44 | <@Terkhen> | wow, that thread is still going on? |
| 14:44 | <frosch123> | someone should make a nogo with exactly those ttdp options :p |
| 14:44 | <andythenorth> | nah, it went silent after I asked for a list |
| 14:44 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 14:45 | * | andythenorth wonders if a new forum skin would make things seem fresher |
| 14:45 | * | andythenorth currently uses 'silver something' |
| 14:45 | <andythenorth> | or however it's named |
| 14:45 | <@Terkhen> | andythenorth, the thread killer |
| 14:45 | <andythenorth> | I do that to real life conversations too |
| 14:45 | <andythenorth> | you don't want me at your dinner party :P |
| 14:45 | <andythenorth> | or on your table at a wedding |
| 14:46 | <@Terkhen> | I never saw you doing it here in IRC :P |
| 14:46 | <andythenorth> | IRC doesn't encourage nitpick replies |
| 14:46 | <@Terkhen> | heh |
| 14:46 | <andythenorth> | nitpick replies cause a particularly silly kind of argument |
| 14:47 | <@Terkhen> | exactly the kind of arguments the OpenTTD community is lacking :P |
| 14:47 | <oskari89> | I think that if stuff is commercial (graphics), there must be 32-bit, 16-direction Full-zoom sprites :P |
| 14:47 | <oskari89> | In case of trainsets.. |
| 14:48 | <@Terkhen> | I would kill myself if I was forced to code 16 direction for OpenTTD |
| 14:48 | <@Terkhen> | the other things you mention are already in |
| 14:48 | <andythenorth> | Terkhen: it's ok, Eddi|zuHause already did it :P |
| 14:48 | <andythenorth> | you can live a little longer |
| 14:48 | <@Terkhen> | what, killing himself? |
| 14:48 | <@planetmaker> | Terkhen: that's only 2x what we have now |
| 14:48 | <@planetmaker> | I think Eddi did 3x |
| 14:48 | <@Terkhen> | because I'm sure no one drew 16 directions of all sprites :P |
| 14:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i coded 24 |
| 14:48 | * | andythenorth is pretty certain Eddi|zuHause just generated n |
| 14:48 | <@planetmaker> | 3x :-) |
| 14:49 | <@Terkhen> | oooh |
| 14:49 | <@Terkhen> | generators |
| 14:49 | <@Terkhen> | nice :O |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | he |
| 14:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i did not generate any graphics (yet) |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | maybe we should generate AIs and build a server farm to test them |
| 14:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: genetic AIs |
| 14:50 | <@Terkhen> | I can't draw at all, people writing programs that can draw is like science fiction for me :P |
| 14:50 | <andythenorth> | yup |
| 14:50 | <andythenorth> | Terkhen: it's no more sci-fi than a compiler |
| 14:50 | <andythenorth> | I can't properly understand binary :P |
| 14:50 | <andythenorth> | compilers *are* sci-fi :P |
| 14:50 | <oskari89> | And if someone has 3d-modeling available for 32-bit 16-direction graphics, that can reduce drawing quite a lot :P |
| 14:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there are 10 kinds of people in the world |
| 14:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ones that understand binary |
| 14:51 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and ones that can not |
| 14:51 | <andythenorth> | no, there are 11 |
| 14:51 | <andythenorth> | those who don't understand binary, but do understand that joke |
| 14:51 | <andythenorth> | or are they a subclass of the second group? |
| 14:51 | <@Terkhen> | you can't truly understand the joke unless you can understand binary |
| 14:52 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you can't truly understand recursion unless you can understand recursion |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | that is a better joke |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | what is recursion? |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | will wikipedia tell me |
| 14:52 | <@Terkhen> | to know about recursion you need to ask about recursion |
| 14:52 | -!- | Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 14:52 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ |
| 14:52 | <@Terkhen> | hi Alberth |
| 14:53 | <@Alberth> | hi Terkhen |
| 14:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | http://www.ru-eschweilerhof.de/rekfak/ |
| 14:53 | <oskari89> | Eddi|zuhause: Is there any screenshots of that 24-direction trainset sprites in a corner? |
| 14:53 | <andythenorth> | I ran across the Chomsky definition recently in a review of a book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursion#Recursion_in_language |
| 14:53 | <oskari89> | I would like to see that :) |
| 14:54 | <andythenorth> | but also recursion in comp sci is mentioned in here http://dreamsongs.com/Files/PatternsOfSoftware.pdf |
| 14:54 | <@planetmaker> | oskari89: there's even a NewGRF |
| 14:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and then there's partial recursion and all kinds of fun :) |
| 14:55 | <@planetmaker> | http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets |
| 14:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/1990/Hawthorn___Co.__6._Okt_1922.png |
| 14:56 | <oskari89> | That's nice :) |
| 14:57 | <andythenorth> | Terkhen: the pixel generator isn't magical |
| 14:57 | <andythenorth> | if a bitmap is just a sequence of pixels.... |
| 14:57 | <andythenorth> | and if those sequences have any kind of order or pattern... |
| 14:57 | <andythenorth> | then it's trivial |
| 14:59 | <oskari89> | Not on fruit store? |
| 14:59 | <@planetmaker> | oskari89: cets is not (yet) on bananas |
| 14:59 | <oskari89> | Ok. |
| 14:59 | <oskari89> | Is there thread for CETS? |
| 15:00 | <@planetmaker> | not sure |
| 15:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no |
| 15:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | not yet |
| 15:00 | <@planetmaker> | there#s an IRC "thread" ;-) |
| 15:00 | <@planetmaker> | but it has much noise |
| 15:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i wanted to try to use andy's pixa, and then see if that suffices for a release |
| 15:01 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: it's released |
| 15:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | http://pics.nase-bohren.de/choose-your-way.jpg |
| 15:01 | <andythenorth> | ha |
| 15:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: doesn't mean i know how to use it :) |
| 15:01 | <andythenorth> | 'nudge' |
| 15:01 | * | Pixa feels suitably used |
| 15:01 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: it's not trival :( |
| 15:02 | <andythenorth> | maybe it will be for you :) |
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| 15:17 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: because it's a framework, pixa needs quite a lot of scaffolding before you get the first sprites out |
| 15:17 | <andythenorth> | the initial setup pays off when you want a lot of small variations |
| 15:21 | <oskari89> | I see there's lots of green placeholder graphics in CETS.. |
| 15:21 | <oskari89> | Or that's the new alien train technology! :D |
| 15:22 | <@planetmaker> | soylent green express |
| 15:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes. that's why i didn't open a thread yet |
| 15:22 | <V453000> | I just clone sprites if I have some undrawn train :) |
| 15:22 | <V453000> | so few trains look the same, but it works |
| 15:24 | <oskari89> | Those look good in 90 degree turns :D |
| 15:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | V453000: but that only works if you have a significant number of trains drawn :) |
| 15:25 | <V453000> | :D true |
| 15:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | we have only some steam engines drawn, and a minority of the wagons |
| 15:28 | <andythenorth> | friendship cake is recursive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_Friendship_Bread |
| 15:29 | <andythenorth> | are fractals often recursive? |
| 15:29 | <andythenorth> | is recursion scale-free? |
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| 15:30 | <@planetmaker> | fractals can be somewhat self-similar. Which can be an effect of recursion |
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| 15:32 | <andythenorth> | is andythenorth recursive? |
| 15:33 | <@Terkhen> | ask andythenorth |
| 15:34 | <oskari89> | :D |
| 15:34 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
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| 15:35 | <oskari89> | Is there OpenTTD records thread? |
| 15:35 | <@Terkhen> | what kind of records? |
| 15:36 | <oskari89> | Trains, largest ones :) |
| 15:36 | <oskari89> | And with largest capacities :) |
| 15:36 | <@Terkhen> | most ingame records are held by openttdcoop, lone madmen can't compete against a group of them working in unison |
| 15:36 | <V453000> | xD |
| 15:36 | <@planetmaker> | not a global one. #openttdcoop has one: |
| 15:36 | <@planetmaker> | 21:36 Webster: #openttdcoop Records: Clients: 26 | Trains: 2666 (PSG#219) - 2522 (PZG#5) - ( 3000 (PSG#180) logic net) | Single cargo type output: 200,169 (PZG#13) | World Pop: 6,150,671 (PSG#201) |
| 15:37 | <oskari89> | I now have a 63 tile-long passenger train with 8785 passenger capacity :) |
| 15:37 | <oskari89> | 3980 tons :) |
| 15:37 | <@planetmaker> | coop certainly does not have those |
| 15:38 | <@Terkhen> | you probably have that record :P |
| 15:38 | <oskari89> | And crash. |
| 15:38 | <@Terkhen> | I once killed 2^32 - 1 passengers in a train crash, but I "cheated" |
| 15:38 | <@Terkhen> | s/-1/-the actual capacity of the train/ |
| 15:39 | <oskari89> | How many trains? :D |
| 15:39 | <@Terkhen> | one |
| 15:39 | <@Alberth> | two, hopefully :) |
| 15:39 | <@Terkhen> | true :P |
| 15:40 | <oskari89> | Did you modify passenger capacities? |
| 15:40 | <oskari89> | For a tiny 3/8 sprite wagon that has 255 passengers? :D |
| 15:40 | <@Terkhen> | I was coding, playing with how the number of dead passengers is calculated |
| 15:41 | <@Terkhen> | and the variable underflowed |
| 15:41 | <oskari89> | How many passengers can be fitted in 64-tile long train anyway in theory? |
| 15:42 | <oskari89> | Passenger wagons have a 255 passenger limit per wagon, do they? |
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| 15:44 | <@planetmaker> | all vehicles actually |
| 15:45 | <@planetmaker> | hm... load amount is not capacity :-) |
| 15:45 | <oskari89> | :P |
| 15:45 | <@Terkhen> | depends, some callbacks don't actually check the sanity of the value :P |
| 15:45 | <@planetmaker> | but also cargo capacity is a byte. |
| 15:45 | <oskari89> | How long is 3/8 wagons in tiles? |
| 15:45 | -!- | Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd |
| 15:45 | <@planetmaker> | and via CB36 you can probably return a word value |
| 15:46 | <@planetmaker> | 8/8 is half a tile |
| 15:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 3/16 of a tile |
| 15:47 | <oskari89> | Okay.. |
| 15:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Terkhen: btw. integer numbers cannot underflow. it's an overflow in both directions. underflow is for float numbers which get rounded to 0 |
| 15:48 | <oskari89> | That's 0,1875 tiles per 3/8 wagon :P |
| 15:48 | <@Terkhen> | thanks, I wasn't sure if that was the right term :) |
| 15:48 | <@planetmaker> | @calc 3/16 |
| 15:48 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 0.1875 |
| 15:48 | * | DanMacK just realized OzTrans pulled all the North American stuff down... Talk about ridiculous |
| 15:48 | <@planetmaker> | @calc 3/16 * 64 |
| 15:48 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 12 |
| 15:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: it's 0.125 + 0.0125 :) |
| 15:48 | * | DanMacK shakes his head |
| 15:48 | <oskari89> | :D |
| 15:48 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 15:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | er |
| 15:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: it's 0.175 + 0.0175 :) |
| 15:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no |
| 15:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that's not right either |
| 15:49 | <@planetmaker> | ? |
| 15:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ah, fuck it |
| 15:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i clearly cannot calculate |
| 15:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it's 0.125 + 0.0625 |
| 15:50 | <@planetmaker> | you mean the zig-zag? |
| 15:50 | <oskari89> | Damn, i am engineer in a year or so, i should be able to calculate that.. |
| 15:51 | <@planetmaker> | that frightens me now, oskari89 ;-) |
| 15:51 | <oskari89> | @calc 1/3/16 * 64 |
| 15:51 | <@DorpsGek> | oskari89: 1.33333333333 |
| 15:51 | <oskari89> | No it's not that. |
| 15:52 | <@planetmaker> | @calc 32 * 3/16 |
| 15:52 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 6 |
| 15:52 | <oskari89> | 5,3333 |
| 15:52 | <@planetmaker> | @calc 16 * 3/16 |
| 15:52 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 3 |
| 15:52 | <@planetmaker> | so 6 pixel in -- and 3 pixel in | |
| 15:52 | <oskari89> | That's about... 6*12 wagons? |
| 15:53 | <oskari89> | 72.. |
| 15:53 | <@planetmaker> | those numbers are for an oblique view along the grid lines |
| 15:53 | <oskari89> | And if every has 255 capacity, that would be 18360 capacity :) |
| 15:53 | <oskari89> | in passengers. |
| 15:53 | <@planetmaker> | oh. But why do you stop at 3/8 length? |
| 15:54 | <@planetmaker> | why not 1/8 ? |
| 15:56 | <oskari89> | Oh, is that available too? |
| 15:57 | <@planetmaker> | should work: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/Trains#Shorter_train_vehicles_.2821.29 |
| 15:58 | <@planetmaker> | i you don't care about ancient OpenTTD or TTDPatch |
| 15:58 | <@planetmaker> | *if |
| 16:02 | * | andythenorth makes a humble request |
| 16:03 | <andythenorth> | please can we have more newgrf smoke control? |
| 16:03 | <andythenorth> | DanMacK has drawn a very nice steam ship |
| 16:03 | <andythenorth> | maybe we could just do one step at a time? |
| 16:03 | * | andythenorth could help test |
| 16:03 | <@Alberth> | you want to make the ship invisible due to the smoke? :p |
| 16:04 | -!- | Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-231-12.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd |
| 16:06 | -!- | bremerjoe [57aec10e@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd |
| 16:07 | <bremerjoe> | Good evening all. |
| 16:07 | <andythenorth> | http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2825/coaster_gen_1.png |
| 16:07 | <@Alberth> | evenink bremerjoe |
| 16:08 | <bremerjoe> | @ AndyTheNorth: NIce boat. Thinking about adding some tailwater? (Hope that was the right word. |
| 16:08 | <andythenorth> | wake? |
| 16:08 | <andythenorth> | it has it |
| 16:08 | <andythenorth> | one of them is stopped ;) |
| 16:09 | <@Terkhen> | hi bremerjoe |
| 16:09 | <@Alberth> | is "_gen_" what I think it is ? |
| 16:09 | <andythenorth> | http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2826/coaster_gen_1b.png |
| 16:09 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: no |
| 16:09 | <andythenorth> | unless my generator lives in Canada |
| 16:09 | <@planetmaker> | Alberth: generation |
| 16:09 | <andythenorth> | or you think _gen_ means 'generation' ;) |
| 16:10 | <@Alberth> | I heard the Internet exists there too :) |
| 16:10 | <@Alberth> | but probably I am wrong :) |
| 16:10 | <andythenorth> | http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4263 |
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| 16:15 | <V453000> | andythenorth: I would probably make the grey of the trunk 1 shade brighter |
| 16:15 | <V453000> | otherwise amazing of course :) |
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| 16:16 | <andythenorth> | DanMacK drew it ;) |
| 16:16 | <andythenorth> | needs smoke |
| 16:16 | <andythenorth> | I *could* generate smoke hard-coded in the sprites |
| 16:16 | <@Alberth> | the task speaks newgrf-ish, a language which I don't know, unfortunately |
| 16:17 | <andythenorth> | cbs are actually quite easy to hack |
| 16:17 | <oskari89> | If that 1/8 wagon had 255 passengers, 64-tile train could have 55080 passengers :) |
| 16:17 | <andythenorth> | you just trust whatever result you get back :P |
| 16:18 | <andythenorth> | frosch123 could explain it :) |
| 16:18 | <andythenorth> | we don't need to ship it in 1.2.0, I will happily test a patch for it |
| 16:18 | <andythenorth> | could be first big feature for 1.3 |
| 16:18 | <andythenorth> | :) |
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| 16:19 | <DDR> | What's cooking? |
| 16:19 | <@planetmaker> | the art to mix food and other ingredients and come up with a tasty meal |
| 16:20 | <DDR> | Ah, I'd always wondered where this 'food' came from. |
| 16:20 | <@planetmaker> | :-D |
| 16:21 | <@planetmaker> | you mean the green stuff, soylent green stuff? I guess from "factories" |
| 16:21 | <DDR> | So, they have cooking factories? How convenient, I was just getting a bit hungry. |
| 16:21 | <DDR> | I was down to saltines. :( |
| 16:22 | <oskari89> | I'm hungry, i'm going to have a cheddar-ham sandwich. |
| 16:23 | <DDR> | Bye. |
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| 16:23 | <DDR> | Anyhow, with this mystery solved, andythenorth -- what is this feature? |
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| 16:23 | <andythenorth> | smoke |
| 16:24 | <DDR> | Smoke? |
| 16:24 | <andythenorth> | for newgrf vehicles |
| 16:24 | <andythenorth> | mostly ships |
| 16:24 | <DDR> | Like, the little puffs that come up from a labouring engine? |
| 16:24 | <DDR> | Ah. |
| 16:25 | <DDR> | That'll be nice. |
| 16:26 | <@planetmaker> | but andy just went through his personal cupboard of shelved newgrf features and pulled a random one out :-P |
| 16:26 | <@planetmaker> | the shelf of 'nice to have' ones |
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| 16:28 | <DDR> | Ah. |
| 16:31 | <V453000> | :D |
| 16:31 | <V453000> | by the way ... is there any chance vehicle_type_id could be available for purchase menu? |
| 16:32 | <DDR> | Hey, quick question, how do I remove AIs from in-game? |
| 16:32 | <@planetmaker> | stop_ai |
| 16:32 | <@planetmaker> | from the console |
| 16:32 | <@planetmaker> | maybe followed by the number |
| 16:33 | <DDR> | Ah, perhap I should be more clear. :P How do I remove it from the list of AIs which can start? |
| 16:33 | <Rubidium> | V453000: I don't see the point/use for it |
| 16:33 | <DDR> | Though, funnily enough, that was my next question. :P |
| 16:33 | <DDR> | I've downloaded a few, but I'd like to remove some of the road-hogs. |
| 16:33 | <Rubidium> | V453000: as all vehicles within the same purchase menu are of the same vehicle type |
| 16:33 | <@planetmaker> | there is a way, but I don't know how, DDR :-) |
| 16:34 | <andythenorth> | V453000: you're doing something with articulated chains? |
| 16:34 | <@planetmaker> | Rubidium: in NML that's the engineID |
| 16:34 | <V453000> | I just have one switch block which is meant to control all speeds of all vehicles for example |
| 16:34 | <Rubidium> | V453000: or you mean the engine type, but then that's just an internal ID that has no relation with the actual ID you used in your NewGRF |
| 16:35 | <V453000> | which it does, but the purchase menu cannot accept that |
| 16:35 | <andythenorth> | V453000: you need templating? |
| 16:35 | <V453000> | cant do that under windows eh |
| 16:36 | <DDR> | Where are downloaded newgrfs kept? |
| 16:36 | <@planetmaker> | readme section 4 tells you :-) |
| 16:36 | <@planetmaker> | depends on OS |
| 16:36 | <andythenorth> | V453000: you could write a massive branching switch |
| 16:36 | <DDR> | I skimmed the readme a bit much, I guess. |
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| 16:36 | <@planetmaker> | Line 188 or so |
| 16:36 | <V453000> | andythenorth: tell me more :) |
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| 16:37 | <@planetmaker> | I even remember the line from my browser's URL. So often this question is asked ;-) |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | either NML can get the engineID as a var, or if it can't do that in buy menu, you just hard-code them |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | because *you* know the IDs :P |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | it's not ideal though |
| 16:37 | <V453000> | oh |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | sounds to me like you're working around the lack of templates :) |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | but if your problem is simple, I guess it will work |
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| 16:38 | <V453000> | right |
| 16:39 | <andythenorth> | if you're nearly finished with your grf, it's probably not worth learning templating now |
| 16:39 | <andythenorth> | if you have a lot more to do...you might consider it |
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| 16:49 | <drac_boy> | hi |
| 16:57 | <FLHerne> | hi |
| 16:58 | <drac_boy> | heh hi again |
| 16:58 | * | drac_boy is sorta half zzz but still ok now -_- |
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| 17:04 | * | FLHerne fails to fix another assertion fail |
| 17:04 | -!- | Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-106-21-132.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd |
| 17:04 | <Pikka> | ying tong yiddle I po? |
| 17:04 | <andythenorth> | hello Pikka bird |
| 17:04 | <Pikka> | hello Anne Dee |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | have a boat http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2826/coaster_gen_1b.png |
| 17:05 | <drac_boy> | heh |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | it's free |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | for now |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | until we bring the $2 charge in |
| 17:05 | <Pikka> | free boat! |
| 17:05 | <drac_boy> | nice one andythenorth |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | I think a boat for $2 is a bargain |
| 17:05 | <Pikka> | enormous yacht |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | and I'm so generous, I'll include about 30 more |
| 17:05 | * | Pikka must to coffee, berb |
| 17:05 | <@planetmaker> | hell-o Pi-kaBird |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | oh |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | we had a godwin event |
| 17:05 | <andythenorth> | how silly |
| 17:06 | <@planetmaker> | but he didn't lose |
| 17:07 | <bremerjoe> | I heard AndyTheNorth even provides free wakes with the boat! :) |
| 17:08 | <@Terkhen> | I'll buy your NewGRFs for -2$ |
| 17:09 | * | andythenorth used to have a monopoly game where the game respected -ve amounts, but the computer players saw them as +ve |
| 17:10 | <andythenorth> | so you could offer -2,000 for Pall Mall, the computer player would sell it to you as a good deal, and send you the money :P |
| 17:10 | <@Terkhen> | heh :P |
| 17:10 | <@planetmaker> | lol |
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| 17:26 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: if i purchase support for heqs, does that include playing the game for me? and if, how many games per month do i get with the standard service package? |
| 17:26 | <andythenorth> | frosch123 "there's no fixed limit, but we'll let you know if you're using more than is average for your package, compared to other customers" |
| 17:27 | <andythenorth> | "it may be that you'd benefit from an upgraded support package" |
| 17:27 | <andythenorth> | number of games is unlimited |
| 17:27 | <andythenorth> | you can also play multiple games at once if you have multiple openttd |
| 17:27 | <frosch123> | no, i asked how many you would play for me |
| 17:28 | <andythenorth> | we can tailor a package to your needs |
| 17:28 | <andythenorth> | some customers find it more convenient to pay day rates |
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| 17:29 | <andythenorth> | frosch123: what volume of games do you need? |
| 17:29 | <bremerjoe> | gotta go. Good night everybody! |
| 17:29 | <andythenorth> | and how long does a game last? |
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| 17:30 | <frosch123> | a 2kx2k map with everything connected |
| 17:30 | <drac_boy> | is it too complicated to ever think about or can you have one industry with randomized inputs? |
| 17:30 | <andythenorth> | drac_boy: it's a cb |
| 17:30 | <andythenorth> | 14D or somewhere near there |
| 17:30 | <frosch123> | you can randomise it on construction |
| 17:30 | <andythenorth> | it breaks the cargo chain map in game |
| 17:31 | <frosch123> | i.e. pick 3 out of many |
| 17:31 | <andythenorth> | 'breaks' == renders incorrect |
| 17:31 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth I was actually thinking of third-y (whats a word that comes after 'secondary' anyway?) industry that could accept some cargos if the player choosed to |
| 17:31 | <drac_boy> | eg ports |
| 17:31 | <andythenorth> | secondary-secondary |
| 17:31 | <frosch123> | tertiary |
| 17:31 | <andythenorth> | or tertiary |
| 17:31 | <drac_boy> | heh ok thanks |
| 17:32 | <frosch123> | yay, i spelled it the same as andy \o/ |
| 17:32 | <andythenorth> | tertiary is strictly about services etc when I last looked it up |
| 17:32 | <andythenorth> | but I usually mean 'third in the chain' :P |
| 17:32 | <drac_boy> | so well yeah one way it could go was you start a new map and then you see that the port accepts hmm lets say COAL,PAPR .. so you could decide to deliver to there instead of to the normal powerplant/printworks industry |
| 17:33 | <drac_boy> | its not really doing anything to the industry chain other than adding a new dropoff point for it |
| 17:34 | <Pikka> | quaternary! |
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| 17:35 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: nibbles |
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| 17:35 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth so any comment on that sort of port-or-so optional industry with randomized inputs? |
| 17:36 | <andythenorth> | meh |
| 17:36 | <Pikka> | does it? |
| 17:36 | <andythenorth> | it's an idea that has been around a long time |
| 17:36 | <andythenorth> | I was going to do it in FIRS but never got around to it |
| 17:36 | <andythenorth> | players will probably like it |
| 17:36 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: roadtypes! |
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| 17:37 | <Pikka> | :[ |
| 17:37 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth ah ok, so it wasn't just me wondering about that idea, thanks |
| 17:37 | <drac_boy> | well I'll see if I want try introduce it or not :) |
| 17:37 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: newgrf smoke! |
| 17:37 | <Pikka> | ew |
| 17:38 | <andythenorth> | [is maybe something you would write a spec for?] |
| 17:38 | <Pikka> | maybe |
| 17:38 | <Pikka> | but who will code? |
| 17:38 | <andythenorth> | all your newgrfs have all the smoke they need :( |
| 17:38 | <andythenorth> | I coded a cb once |
| 17:38 | <Pikka> | no |
| 17:38 | <andythenorth> | it never got included |
| 17:38 | <Pikka> | more smoke! |
| 17:38 | <Pikka> | everything needs to produce six kinds of smoke constantly! |
| 17:38 | <andythenorth> | I did the other version of 'wagon can be attached' or something |
| 17:38 | * | andythenorth forgets |
| 17:39 | <andythenorth> | oh yes http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1316/ |
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| 17:39 | <Pikka> | craziness |
| 17:39 | * | Pikka does a UKRS2+ |
| 17:40 | <andythenorth> | hoppers! |
| 17:40 | <andythenorth> | scrap wagons! |
| 17:40 | <Pikka> | yes |
| 17:40 | <Pikka> | those |
| 17:40 | <andythenorth> | clyde puffer! |
| 17:40 | <Pikka> | on rails! |
| 17:40 | <andythenorth> | on water silly |
| 17:40 | <Pikka> | I think my puffer is somewhat larger scale than your ships? |
| 17:41 | <andythenorth> | yes |
| 17:41 | * | DanMacK thought it scaled out close though |
| 17:41 | <andythenorth> | and somewhat the inverse of your 'make everything smaller trend' |
| 17:41 | <Pikka> | my plans with ships, such as they were, were to have a rather smaller maximum size than FEESH |
| 17:41 | <andythenorth> | DanMacK: I have it coded in fish, but it doesn't look right alongside the others tbh :( |
| 17:41 | <andythenorth> | with all due respect to mr bird |
| 17:41 | <DanMacK> | no, it doesn't |
| 17:42 | * | Pikka codeth deez wogans |
| 17:42 | <andythenorth> | use nfo |
| 17:42 | <andythenorth> | I reckon |
| 17:43 | <DanMacK> | Well, they're about 70-90 feet long roughly... |
| 17:43 | <drac_boy> | andythenorth btw it was 14B/14C .. only mentions that its for patch 2.6+ .. does ottd have it too? |
| 17:43 | <andythenorth> | yes |
| 17:43 | <andythenorth> | DanMacK: it's about the right length, bit fat, bit high |
| 17:43 | <DanMacK> | So that'd be small or large trader size? |
| 17:43 | <andythenorth> | small - the Rockall |
| 17:44 | <drac_boy> | hmm random outputs....not sure I want to try that |
| 17:44 | <andythenorth> | historically they are the same line of ships |
| 17:44 | <Pikka> | bit fat, bit high. sounds like my cousins from up north. |
| 17:44 | <andythenorth> | he |
| 17:44 | * | andythenorth doesn't mean to be rude :) |
| 17:44 | <andythenorth> | DanMacK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clyde_puffer |
| 17:44 | <andythenorth> | the Rockall freighter is basically a VIC |
| 17:45 | <andythenorth> | based on RMAS Bee |
| 17:45 | <andythenorth> | http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1315631 |
| 17:46 | <Pikka> | andy, when are we getting all kinds of fancy load graphics for FISH? |
| 17:46 | <andythenorth> | juvember |
| 17:46 | <DanMacK> | ahhhh |
| 17:46 | * | DanMacK thought it was maytember |
| 17:46 | <@Terkhen> | good night |
| 17:47 | <andythenorth> | could be maytember |
| 17:47 | <andythenorth> | bye Terkhen |
| 17:47 | <andythenorth> | puffer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:J_M_Briscoe13_07_200708_57_3401195_1_VITAL_SPARK.jpg |
| 17:47 | <andythenorth> | they are quite sticky uppy |
| 17:47 | * | andythenorth thinks they might look a bit silly :P |
| 17:48 | * | andythenorth had better put the recycling out and go to bed |
| 17:48 | <andythenorth> | tomorrow is another day of toil |
| 17:48 | <drac_boy> | heh |
| 17:50 | <drac_boy> | I know I've asked a bit about push-pull before probably but I'm wondering about something a bit different... |
| 17:50 | <Pikka> | yes |
| 17:50 | <drac_boy> | articulated trains that wouldn't take on any seperate wagons .. can they be operated in push-pull or because its not a locomotive+wagon consist it just wouldn't quite work? |
| 17:52 | <andythenorth> | it's just varaction 2 afaict |
| 17:52 | <andythenorth> | unless I miss something |
| 17:53 | <andythenorth> | anyway, bed |
| 17:53 | <andythenorth> | good night |
| 17:53 | <drac_boy> | bye andythenorth |
| 17:53 | <Pikka> | as usual, andythenorth misses little |
| 17:53 | <Pikka> | goodnight |
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| 18:05 | * | drac_boy is going to eat out now |
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| 18:12 | <DanMacK> | !seen wally |
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| 19:22 | <drac_boy> | hi |
| 19:22 | <drac_boy> | pikka so anyhow the reason I had asked about articulated set in push-pull was because I was thinking of certain fixed trains that never turn around more or less to put it that way |
| 19:23 | <drac_boy> | especially rack electric trains which more or less often were just coach-loco or coach-coach-loco for most of their trips |
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| 19:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that probably has a different reason. on steep tracks, it's customary to always have the engine at the lower end, since it has the highest braking power |
| 19:43 | <drac_boy> | eddi well I could think of a reason to have it always pointing on the lower side (aka push-push) for some arctic map that would have one town on the mountain flattop and next town all the way down by the coastline ... many of the times its a 7+ tiles straight climb |
| 19:44 | <drac_boy> | could be an interesting alternative gameplay where you can just build a straight slow line rather than taking the long zigzag way around |
| 19:44 | <drac_boy> | but I'm just thinking about the idea tho. doubt how useful it could be to actually implent |
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| 19:47 | * | drac_boy has more pressing matters anyhow :-s |
| 19:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'd rather have actually backwards-driving trains instead of magic newgrf trickery in those cases |
| 19:55 | <drac_boy> | well...problem is that you can't run a consist backward without the push-pull or creating a 1hp/1kn locomotive as a wagon and put the actual locomotive on the rear |
| 19:55 | <drac_boy> | unless theres something else I hadn't thought of |
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| 20:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes. this is not implemented (yet) |
| 20:04 | <Rhamphoryncus> | Actually... |
| 20:04 | <Rhamphoryncus> | The game reverses for you. What you need to do is cheat the graphics to *undo* the reverse and make it look like it's backwards |
| 20:05 | <Rhamphoryncus> | one set does this |
| 20:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Rhamphoryncus: that horribly fails as soon as you have vehicles of different length |
| 20:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Rhamphoryncus: or vehicles from different grfs |
| 20:05 | <Rhamphoryncus> | of course |
| 20:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and that's why i said i do not want this |
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| 20:16 | <drac_boy> | just wondering about this but does the cargo payment rate like plateau at some point above zero no matter how many days its even been? |
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| 21:07 | <Rhamphoryncus> | drac_boy: google for "openttd game mechanics" |
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| --- | Log | closed Fri Apr 13 00:01:00 2012 |
