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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-04-23

---Logopened Mon Apr 23 00:00:35 2012
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01:52<NGC3982>life is hard
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02:30<NGC3982>you guys are genuinly great at the english language
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02:31<NGC3982>to a french correspondent, im trying to formulate myself correctly in english.
02:31<NGC3982>im sending him a xls file contaigning orders
02:31<NGC3982>thus, using "I have attached order file 3 for <project>".
02:31<NGC3982>but that feels very swenglish
02:31<NGC3982>like "Hej there, i have lagt till såm fajls får ju".
02:32<NGC3982>any tips?
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02:58<DabuYu>NGC3982: 'attached you'll finde order file 3 for project'
03:01<NGC3982>so "order file" actually works?
03:01<NGC3982>since its the litteral translation of the swedish word, it looks a bit funny
03:01<NGC3982>at least for me as a swede: )
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03:58<alexcosa>Hi, anyone know how to make a application like "online content" with that features in c++ or java ?
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03:59<alexcosa>Hi, anyone know how to make a application like "online content" with that features in c++ or java ?
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04:00<alexcosa>Hi, anyone know how to make a application like "online content" with that features in c++ or java ?
04:03<planetmaker>alexcosa: surely someone knows. But our bananas is an MySQL database with a django frontend. And C++ is the interface as found in OpenTTD
04:03<planetmaker>Your question is *very* general and thus hardly can be sensibly answered
04:04<planetmaker>(and no, I possibly can't answer detailed technical questions)
04:04<planetmaker>on that matter
04:05<alexcosa>i want to make a application like that opensource...
04:05<alexcosa>usefull softs...
04:06<planetmaker>it's not like it's closed source...
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04:13<alexcosa>can i ask you a question on private? planetmaker?
04:14<peter1138>best to ask questions in public
04:14<planetmaker>ask in public
04:14<planetmaker>much better chance someone who knows a better answer than me, most probably
04:15<alexcosa>openttd would be released on steam?
04:16<planetmaker>iirc their TOS don't work too well with the license. But I might mis-remember
04:17<alexcosa>i have added the openttd to their submission maybe he will get :P
04:17<telanus>With the "Latest nightly" (r181) of chips I get this: Normal or not?
04:18<telanus>or worse is this:
04:20<NGC3982>what seems un-normal?
04:20<planetmaker>the toolbar, I recon
04:21<NGC3982>yes, well, that looks ..odd.
04:22<planetmaker>but I recon it's one of the many other NewGRFs, esp. trackset newgrfs
04:22<planetmaker>btw, telanus, it only makes sense to have _one_ town name newgrf active
04:22<NGC3982>are images used in toolbars displayed via file names?
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04:27<telanus>The problem goes away if I remove the chips nightly
04:29<MNIM>planetmaker: I beg to differ! I would love to be able to run belgian/dutch/south-african town names all together if I could
04:29<MNIM>(inb4 why don't you make a newgrf like that: much too much trouble for just a single user)
04:30<planetmaker>MNIM: whatever the desire, only *one* townset can be active.
04:30<planetmaker>whatever you put into that - is up to the newgrf maker
04:30<MNIM>at the moment.
04:32<telanus>Planetmaker: Only the British Town name is active
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04:39<planetmaker>alexcosa: what's steams TOS? I don't find that
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04:40<planetmaker>hi dihedral
04:40<dihedral>wow - alexcosa posting the same question 3 times within 3 minutes? :-D
04:40<dihedral>howdi planetmaker
04:40<alexcosa>Hi, anyone know how to make a application like "online content" with that features in c++ or java ?
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04:40<dihedral>alexcosa, we have read your question
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04:41<dihedral>and your question is so vague that most programmers should be able to answer: 'yes'
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04:42<dihedral>so in case you do not specify it a little more ...
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04:42<alexcosa>i want to make a aplication opensource with online content of most usefull programs...
04:43<alexcosa>downlodable... :P
04:43<alexcosa>like online content in the openttd
04:43<dihedral>then start with the application, and work out a protocol
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04:44<alexcosa>i dk how...
04:44<dihedral>then dont do it
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04:46<dihedral>if you just have the idea of something and what it could look like - go into app design and consider being employed for frontend work.
04:46<dihedral>or mock up
04:50<dihedral>and how are those, in this channel, with a common sense?
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05:00*NGC3982 does the mambo.
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05:08<Eddi|zuHause>@seen commmon sense
05:08<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: seen [<channel>] <nick>
05:08<Eddi|zuHause>@seen common_sense
05:08<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: I have not seen common_sense.
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05:57<Eddi|zuHause> <-- tried to rework/update the page, anyone see any mistakes/errors?
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>that is how i understood the source code, i have not tested any of this
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07:04<Skau1>what is the best way to avid traffic chaos if a train breaks down on the main rail?
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07:13<Eddi|zuHause>turn off breakdowns :)
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>seriously, any automatic measures to circumvent broken down trains will instead cause additional disturbances during normal traffic
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07:15<Skau1>so 2 lanes in each direction and use the other one only if there is something blocking the main lane wont do it?
07:16<planetmaker>try. IMHO not worth it
07:16<Skau1>maybe not
07:17<Skau1>yesterday my friends train broke down too many times, so all his traffic stopped
07:17<Skau1>we're talking a reliability at 3%
07:17<V453000>just turn off breakdowns :)
07:17<Skau1>the train was new and just maintanced
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>Skau1: if you have switching places between the lanes, trains will (almost) arbitrarily switch lanes, blocking off trains coming from behind
07:18<Skau1>thats like cheating
07:19<Skau1>just got a message that one of my trains were lost.. but it wasnt :S
07:19<planetmaker>it surely was.
07:19<Skau1>if it was, it found its way on its own.. and pretty fast
07:20<Skau1>and i got 10 trains with the exact same orders
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07:28<Rhamphoryncus>Skau1: temporarily lost does indeed happen. Stopping at the near side of a terminal station will do it. So will construction that involves briefly removing a track or placing a signal backwards
07:29<Rhamphoryncus>A lost train will try to wander your network, which usually results in it finding a way again
07:30<Skau1>good to know
07:31<Skau1>if transport rating is 59% .. do this mean i should attempt to higher the transportation?
07:31<planetmaker>that's ok. Above 66% is better
07:31<planetmaker>A statue in town migth give you 10%
07:31<Skau1>its an oilrig
07:36<planetmaker>also that has a town which it belongs to
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07:59<Skau1>is it possible to move or build a new depot so that the orderlists changes automaticly?
08:00<krinn>no, but with share orders, you will need to add the new depot location one time
08:03<Skau1>not all trains have the same orderlist
08:03<Skau1>but every train has this depo in common
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08:07<krinn>then 1 time per group of trains with share order, if you don't use share order, then 1 time per train
08:07<krinn>must be why share orders exist...
08:07<V453000>you can also use the "go to nearest depot" order instead of setting an order to go to a specific depot btw
08:08<Skau1>can i enable share orders or do this only count if i cloned the trains/orders?
08:10<krinn>pickup train2, open orders and do Goto and Ctrl+Click on the train you wish order sharing
08:10<Skau1>what is the "Add shared vehicle" option?
08:14<krinn> as i don't know what "Add shared vehicle" is, and where you see this
08:16<Skau1>if you select a group
08:16<Skau1>you will find it under manage list
08:19<krinn>i'm not sure, never use it, for me it should add all vehicle that have share orders in that group
08:20<krinn>yet it just do that
08:24<Skau1>and one more thing.. is there a way to convert trains to monorail ?
08:25<krinn>no, a patch exist that do that
08:26<krinn>the easy solve is using a newGRF that add a railtype that allow both trains to run on it
08:26<Skau1>so in other words.. you need to cheat? :P
08:26<krinn>no, as the railtype limit your train speed
08:27<Skau1>monorails cant run on normal rails.. or the other way around in real world
08:27<Skau1>so.. cheat.. :P
08:27<krinn>then do like real world: remove the trains, convert rails & depot to monorail, rebuild the train :)
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09:54<Skau1>is there a way to remove selfbuilt industries?
09:54<Skau1>i misplaced it
09:54<Skau1>a sawmill
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09:57<Eddi|zuHause>the magic bulldozer cheat
09:59<Skau1>another think.. if i spam "Fund new buildnings"
09:59<Skau1>will this work, or will i have to wait a while between each time for it to have any effect?
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>you either fund buildings or you don't. it won't double-fund them
10:00<Skau1>its not enough just to fund once?
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>if you fund it once, the effect lasts about a month or so
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>but the effect won't add up. if you fund a second time, it will last a month from that point on
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>it will not last two months if you fund twice in a short time
10:10<Skau1>industries cant be removed without cheat? right?
10:13<V453000>if you wait for long enough and it isnt a power plant xD
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10:34<Skau1>is there a way to adjust the zoom levels?
10:34<Skau1>i would love to be able to zoom abit more...
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10:39<Eddi|zuHause>in 1.2.0 you can zoom in up to 4x
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10:58<supermop>only one at work today means i can draw sprites
10:58<peter1138>Do I really want to spend £240 on an ADSL router?
10:58<Rubidium>peter1138: I wouldn't
10:59<Skau1>better spend a buck on ISDN!
10:59<blathijs>peter1138: What does it do? Bond a dozen ADSL lines together for fiber-speed? :-)
11:00<peter1138>ASDL/VDSL/3G (via dongle)
11:00<peter1138>VPNs, VLANs, VoIP (FXO & FXS)
11:00<peter1138>NAS (with a USB HDD)
11:00<peter1138>IPv6, heh
11:00<peter1138>and that's about it. yeah. bit much.
11:01<peter1138>I should get a crappy Cisco for £20,000 instead, yeah.
11:02<SpComb>buy a router with decent hardware, and put OpenWRT on it!
11:02<SpComb>and it will do anything that you're able to compile and configure
11:04<supermop>ok i should know this but,
11:04<supermop>in dimetric
11:04<supermop>a railrod tie looks a certain way in the / view,
11:05<peter1138>You mean a sleeper?
11:05<supermop>in the / slope up view, it will look wider?
11:05<supermop>if you prefer
11:05<peter1138>Why would it look wider?
11:06<peter1138>Considering it'll be the same actual size, and there's no perspective, you would just need to shift them up.
11:06<supermop>the upward slope would meant the plane of the track is slightly closer to parallel to the plane of the viewer
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11:07<supermop>ie, looking straight down on a track, the top of the ties/sleepers will look fuller than looking at it from a glancing angle
11:08<supermop>the upward slopes are closer to that situation than the flat track
11:09<peter1138>possibly by a very small percentage
11:11<peter1138>if you're taking that into consideration, you also need to consider that the track will be 17.888 units long instead of 16
11:15<supermop>and the top rail surface will look slightly wider
11:16<peter1138>but the width of the tile doesn't change
11:17<Skau1>can you connect to a 1.0.4 server if you have a 1.2.0 client?
11:17<peter1138>so how can that be?
11:17<peter1138>Skau1, no
11:18<supermop>the track goes like /
11:18<supermop>so the rail has a - and a | component to its width
11:18<supermop>the - width of the tile doesnt change
11:19<supermop>but the apparent | with does on slopes that face the viewer
11:19<supermop>so the | component of the rail's width should be proportionally larger
11:20<peter1138>render it
11:20<peter1138>much easier ;)
11:20<peter1138>although technically not easier where it changes gradient
11:26<Baxxster>How do you disable the "Try out this vehicle!" thingy? ;P
11:32<Rubidium>start in 2050 ;)
11:33<supermop>i used to do that
11:33<supermop>and i am pretty handy with rhinoceros
11:34<supermop>but i found texturing things to be a pain - so hard to find good free textures,
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11:34<supermop>and then you need to trace it anyway to get it to look good in 8bpp
11:35<supermop>i did 3d model my roundhouse though to figure out what angles a 16-gon would have in tt's dimetric view
11:36<supermop>i started out by modelling my monorail track, but gave up because the concrete looked stupid and just free handed it
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11:59<Skau1>why doesnt my wood trains drop off all their wood at the saw mill station?.. it allways leaves with about 20% left
11:59<Skau1>its marked to unload all in the orders
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12:03<Eddi|zuHause>also make it "no loading"
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>you probably have a forest in reach of the dropoff station
12:03<Skau1>i have no loading
12:04<Skau1>but yes, i had a forest in reach
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12:07<Baxxster>Hm. I just saw his train skip dropping off. Orders are identical to other trains that work. No woods nearby at all. Unload all is also on.
12:09<Skau1>and leave empty
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12:15<Skau1>is it possible to empty the carts without removing them?
12:15<Skau1>it looks like i have picked up some wood from the main station that it wont drop off at the same place
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12:34<Eddi|zuHause>the "unload all" combined with "no loading" should do that
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12:36<supermop>so the X piece of track gets its own sprite
12:37<supermop>rather than compositing the / and \ overlays
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>afair, yes
12:37<supermop>I am guessing this is to prevent ties/sleepers of one being drawn over the other?
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12:55<Baxxster>What's the flashing red circle on the news-status bar?
12:56<+glx>hidden news
12:56<frosch123>either autosave, or a news message that is disables ni th enews message
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12:56<Baxxster>ah, ok. thanks
12:58<NGC3982>in english, does it sound logical to use "backbone" as a word for "the other product we wish to sell if the first one fails"
12:58<NGC3982>? :)
12:58<NGC3982>i.e: "we wish to use product 2 as backbone, if product 1 fails."
12:58<krinn>what are limitation of text in sign ? i know the 31 chars limit, but wish to get others, like if a charset or language could also put one....
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13:13<Rubidium>NGC3982: that doesn't sound right; fallback sounds better to me, but I'm not a native English speaker (or writer)
13:16<NGC3982>ah, yes
13:20<Mazur>Any native ENglish speakers here? What is a general name for all/any contraptions on a playing ground, be it swingset, slide, climbing thingy.
13:20<andythenorth>play equipment?
13:20<andythenorth>playground equipment
13:21<andythenorth>or just 'playground'
13:23<Mazur>I was defining a new "Meaning of Liff" on QI forum.
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r24174 /trunk/src/lang/ (afrikaans.txt ukrainian.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 3 changes by telanus
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: ukrainian - 1 changes by edd_k
13:47*andythenorth needs to allow an industry to be built in multiple town zones
13:47<andythenorth>can't see how to do it
13:56<andythenorth>maybe I just don't bother :)
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14:09<andythenorth>maybe a range check
14:10<andythenorth>gah, how big is town zone 0? :P
14:11<andythenorth>hmm, but with tweaking this will be good
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14:41<andythenorth>town zones don't work as I thought
14:42<andythenorth>docs are clear enough though
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14:44<andythenorth>TOWNZONE_OUTSKIRT doesn't appear there are at least 48 houses
14:44<andythenorth>which is not intuitive :P
14:45<andythenorth>whereas TOWNZONE_OUTER_SUBURB exists when there are more than 16 houses, but less than 56
14:45<andythenorth>then it disappears again
14:45<andythenorth>this makes town zones strange and not entirely useful
14:46<andythenorth>[at least for industry placement]
14:50<andythenorth>or I'm reading it wrong
14:50*andythenorth might misunderstand his own head next
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14:56<andythenorth>if builders yards don't build in small towns, then any NoGo based on 'building supplies = growth' will fail :|
14:57<andythenorth>do all towns have a zone
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15:09*andythenorth needs to think some more
15:09<andythenorth>or find someone better at thinking :P
15:09<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: where should builders yards be built?
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15:18<NGC3982>have some of you used different themes on the new gmail layout?
15:19<planetmaker>andythenorth: town zone1 is always present
15:20<andythenorth>not zone0?
15:20<planetmaker>whatever is the most outer one
15:20<andythenorth>so TOWNZONE_EDGE is valid for all towns?
15:20<andythenorth>[is the way I read the code]
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15:53<supermop>so long as i have to make an X track sprite, should i draw frogs on it?
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15:55<Rubidium>those don't have frogs, do they?
15:55<Rubidium>after all, they're not switches
15:55<supermop>hmm ive never seen a 90 degree flat crossing in real life
15:56<andythenorth>planetmaker: the good news is I understand the CPP macros used for location checks etc :)
15:56<supermop>ive seen frogs or something like them on Xs that are very shallow in angle
15:56<andythenorth>writing BANDIT three times with CPP was worth it :P
15:56<supermop>also what to the ties under the center of such a crossing look like?
15:57<supermop>no ties...
15:57<planetmaker>nice, andythenorth :-)
15:57<andythenorth>I'm still going to moan about CPP :)
15:57<andythenorth>but at least code is getting written ;)
15:57<planetmaker>an andy who has nothing to moan about is no andy :-P
15:58<planetmaker>it somehow helps make things better ;-)
15:58*andythenorth has an idea :o
15:58<Rubidium> <- closer one
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15:59<andythenorth>ho ho
15:59*andythenorth wonders if CPP will accept "${FOO}" as identifiers
15:59<supermop>Hmm, have they always been like this? i guess i just will not draw them in the center
16:00<supermop>or if i should try to draw those plates beneath
16:00<Rubidium> <- and the catenary
16:00<supermop>(i am trying to make my own rail grf as its the only way i can figure out how to get all of my depots in game
16:01<supermop>im drawing it in 8bpp EZ in PS
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16:02<Rubidium>one of those four crosses is unique in the Netherlands; it's the only one that's connected to four crosses topologically
16:05<supermop>so i am just drawing the regular sprites in false colors,
16:05<supermop>then i can substitute colors for different rail types
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16:12<supermop>those crossings do at least have an extra inner rail so i'll draw that
16:14<supermop>is it possible to specify other special sprites for other junctions than the x?
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17:00<@Terkhen>good night
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17:14<Skau1>is it possible to change signal lights to test the effect? instead of actually pushing a train through it
17:15<FLHerne>Skau1: I don't think so - why would you want to?
17:15<Skau1>to see if my lights wrok correctly
17:16<FLHerne>But surely if you're changing them manually, you don't know if they're working or not?
17:17<Skau1>if i change one light to simulate a train
17:17<Skau1>to see how the rest reacts
17:18<FLHerne>Oh, I see now....still doesn't work though IIRC :P
17:18<FLHerne>s/doesn't work/isn't a feature/
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17:26<krinn>how can i grab byte value of a char in squirrel ?
17:26<krinn>that damn tointeger() doesn't work
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20:32<Rienzilla>anyone awake?
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20:32<Rienzilla> the signals on the middle track, what type are they?
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20:37<Rhamphoryncus>PierreW: "two-way" path signals
20:38<Rhamphoryncus>A train can only wait (stop) from one direction, but they can go through from the other direction if necessary
20:39<Rhamphoryncus>Note though that the 3-track layout doesn't work very well
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21:17<Skau1>all my trains got stuck
21:17<Skau1>i must have done somethign really wrong
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21:37<Rhamphoryncus>Deadlock-resistance is a special area of design
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21:47<Skau1>took me 30 minutes just to get the trains loose again..
21:52<Rhamphoryncus>Was it a single point deadlocked which caused the backlog? Or were there multiple?
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22:05<Skau1>my system cant handle that many trains
22:05<Skau1>so everything just stopped
22:06<Skau1>i need to rebuild my main station i guess
22:06<Skau1>if i can untangle this shit again
22:06<Skau1>before im bankrupt
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22:08<Rhamphoryncus>A good stopgap is to pick a spot waiting to enter a station, build a depot, then tell some of the trains to go to the depot
22:10<Rhamphoryncus>For station design, if it's a secondary that's deadlock that means all the "full load" trains arrived at once, filling the platforms and then blocking the station entrance, preventing any of the trains that feed that industry from dropping off
22:12<Rhamphoryncus>That you avoid by having lots of extra space for the full load trains. Having two distinct stations with different lines in can work, or using a WP so they approach from a different way and can't access every platform (and thus completely block it). Note that in both cases the line in is serving as a waiting bay
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22:13<Rhamphoryncus>Overflow depots are sometimes used too, but they have finicky design requirements, otherwise they can be unused, overused (causing the whole line to drop to depot speed), or themselves deadlock
22:15<Skau1>im going to make it simple
22:15<Skau1>dragging a huuuge fucking bomb over my station
22:16<Skau1>then rebuild every single shit in there
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22:16<Rhamphoryncus>If you post a before pic on imgur I'll critique it for you
22:17<Skau1>my current?
22:17<Skau1>thats just a big mess.. i was attempting to just fix a few things before i upgraded to maglev
22:17<Rhamphoryncus>ctrl-s for a screenshot
22:17<Skau1>but i must have screwed something up
22:17<Rhamphoryncus>up to you
22:17<Skau1>but either way, i dont think i can fit this many trains on it any way
22:17<Skau1>its messy
22:18<Skau1>i wish i could remove the industries around here
22:18<Skau1>they are just in the way
22:19<Rhamphoryncus>yeah, they can be an issue
22:20<Rhamphoryncus>I often cheat to remove them, but working around them can be half the fun
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22:22<Skau1>ive stopepd using them
22:22<Skau1>just hoping they will dissapear
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22:23<Rhamphoryncus>Sometimes works, but can take a veeeeerry long time
22:38<Skau1>only one industry per town
22:41<Skau1>fuck it, i need to atleast get my oil farming started
22:41<Skau1>the rest can wait
22:41<Skau1>i need to get some income before i am bankrupt
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 24 00:00:36 2012