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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-04-25

---Logopened Wed Apr 25 00:00:38 2012
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03:08<zxbiohazardzx>hmmz
03:08<zxbiohazardzx>i have a city on the scenario editor
03:08<zxbiohazardzx>but when i want to expand it
03:08<zxbiohazardzx>it will no longer grow unless i allow the city to build roads
03:08<zxbiohazardzx>then i suddenly do get houses
03:09<zxbiohazardzx>since when does the city no longer expand along "custom build roads" ?
03:09<zxbiohazardzx>using 1.2.0 i cant, and im 100% sure that on previous versions it would expand
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03:11<zxbiohazardzx>anyone know?
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03:19<Mazur>Not I, every time I play in a pax game, we always build the roads ourselves and the towns expand along them.
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03:30<zxbiohazardzx>im talking scenario editor
03:30<zxbiohazardzx>:P
03:30<zxbiohazardzx>so there is nothing for the town to grow with, hitting the expand button should work
03:30<zxbiohazardzx>but maybe it lagged or so, dunno
03:30<zxbiohazardzx>map is huge so :P
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04:04<Eddi|zuHause>zxbiohazardzx: might be that the roads think they belong to another town
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04:37<Nat_aS>there should be a way to view veichile profit over a longer time scale than yearly
04:37<Nat_aS>yearly is pretty much useless for boats
04:37<Nat_aS>also, WTF, it can take a whole year of game time for a ship to cross the map? maybe that ought to be adjusted?
04:38<Nat_aS>whole years that is
05:01<Rienzilla>it kinda makes sense
05:01<Rienzilla>a train takes several weeks too
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05:08<Eddi|zuHause>i've had a train taking 4 years
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05:12<Wolf01>hello
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05:40<zxbiohazardzx>any devs around at this time of the day?
05:40<zxbiohazardzx>and/or scenario creators?
05:52<Ammler>just ask the question, you will then find out
05:52<Ammler>else you can use the forums or flyspray
05:53<zxbiohazardzx>nvm i just found the source of issue
05:53<zxbiohazardzx>stupid seeding tile
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05:57<Eddi|zuHause>https://twitter.com/#!/Acsiii/status/194519200813957121
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06:02<NGC3982>morning
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06:31<Eddi|zuHause>is it just me or is vcs.openttd.org throwing 502 bad gateway?
06:32<CornishPasty>Not just you, Eddi|zuHause
06:32<CornishPasty>Also, ew svn
06:39<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: re-ordering the newgrf worked :) thanks ... it compiles now without any problems
06:39<V453000>lets see for how does that last :)
06:42<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it's apparently enough for >600 vehicles :)
06:43<V453000>:P
06:43<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: as long as each vehicle is self-contained
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06:56<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: anything you can do about the "bad gateway"?
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07:49<Eddi|zuHause>1/30^(pi^e) haha :p
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08:10*NGC3982 is already bored with his current grfs.
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>make new ones
08:12<NGC3982>i guess that would be an answer to my problem, yes.
08:12<NGC3982>though, im way, way too far from just creating one.
08:12<NGC3982>might be fun to try it, at least.
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08:13<NGC3982>actually, one of the things that i can start with is actually something ive been wanting for some time
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08:13<NGC3982>passengers as industry stimula
08:14<NGC3982>or a grf that produces "workers" from towns, correlating to town growth (as with tourists).
08:17<Skau1>what the hell are antennas fore? just to make sure you can never build a straight road?
08:17<Skau1>..
08:20<NGC3982>:D
08:20<NGC3982>know the feeling, bro.
08:21<Skau1>rebuilding my main area now.. 100 trains was more than it could handle
08:22<Skau1>it sucks when you build something that you earn ALOT of money on
08:22<Skau1>but when you increase the traffic, your income as far from linear with the income
08:23<Skau1>if you have 20 trains with a solid income.. and say you add 20 more, you get like 10% increase, and 20 more you get 10% less and you're back where you started
08:24<Skau1>untill some trains decide that they wanna screw you over and you end up with a twisted fishingline that you strugge to fix
08:24<Skau1>and when you do, you lose a few trains because of bad timing of removing tracks/lights so they just crash into eachother (2 times today) ..
08:32<NGC3982>definetly know the feeling, bro.
08:39<Rhamphoryncus>Skau1: are your trains set to full load?
08:40<Skau1>yes
08:40<Skau1>or not now, sold every single train
08:40<Rhamphoryncus>Is the line congested? Trying to figure out why your income doesn't scale linearly
08:40<Skau1>going to rebuild my mainstation to increase
08:40<Skau1>Rhamphoryncus: easy
08:40<Skau1>because too many trains clogged my system
08:41<Skau1>so there was too much waiting time for each train
08:41<Rhamphoryncus>Congestion then
08:42<Skau1>ive got 2 12 lane stations now, one for delivery of stuff like oil, livestock, grain etc, and one for goods
08:43<Skau1>i need overflow lanes to handle trains that may or may not stack up while waiting
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08:46<Rhamphoryncus>That's just waiting to get in? Or waiting to full load?
08:46<Skau1>waiting to get in
08:46<Skau1>just in case
08:47<Rhamphoryncus>Post a screenshot and I'll critique it ;)
08:47<Skau1>havent built anythink yet
08:47<Skau1>im trying to figure out how to build it
08:47<Rhamphoryncus>Do you know roro basics?
08:48<Skau1>maybe
08:48<Rhamphoryncus>roll-on-roll-off. Enter one side, exit the other
08:49<Rhamphoryncus>Path signals are usually the easiest and best for the entrance
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08:50<Rhamphoryncus>You should also make sure to have deceleration and acceleration lanes
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09:09*NGC3982 still havent learned pbs.
09:11<Skau1>Rhamphoryncus http://norimg.no/bilde/348
09:11<Skau1>this is what i have to work with
09:12<Rhamphoryncus>Ahh. I would have one station for loading and the other for unloading
09:12<Skau1>thats what i want
09:12<Skau1>the one
09:13<Skau1>"goods" are loading, the other one is delivery
09:13<Skau1>i just dont know how i want to build everythign around
09:13<Rhamphoryncus>Lately I've been doing is using one station, but with waypoints to control where the loading trains enter from (and prevent them from accessing certain platforms)
09:14<Skau1>cant have more than 12 lanes
09:14<Skau1>spread
09:15<Rhamphoryncus>Start by swapping the two stations. The far one should be loading as it may need extra track when backed up
09:15<Rhamphoryncus>Ah. That is configurable btw
09:15<Skau1>nothing is written in stone yet
09:15<Skau1>only in paint
09:15<Skau1>:)
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>i can't understand how people have fun playing completely flat maps
09:15<Skau1>its not flat
09:15<Skau1>ive made it flat
09:15<Skau1>:P
09:16<Skau1>to make it easier to build
09:16<Rhamphoryncus>NGC3982: When a train reaches a path signal it attempts to find a route through it to its destination that's not already claimed by another train. If it can't it waits until it can
09:16<Rhamphoryncus>Eddi|zuHause: compared to what, openttdcoop? They overpower the trains enough that it may as well be flat.
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>every idiot and their grandmother can make a flat map and copy-paste somtheing from the junctionary into it...
09:17<Skau1>im playing multiplayer on my friends server and max spread is 12, so 12 is what i can do
09:18<Skau1>but i still dont have any ideas of how i want to build this
09:18<Rhamphoryncus>The raison d'être of openttdcoop is to make things difficult, mostly based on the severe limitations of bridges and tunnels
09:21<Rhamphoryncus>Skau1: on the input side of each station I'd give each platform 4 tiles of diagonal, which then connects to a straight track, which has a path signal on it
09:22<Rhamphoryncus>It'd actually be better to make the inputs branching, so maybe the first 4 have 4 tiles of diagonal, the second 4 have 5, and the last 4 have 6
09:23<Rhamphoryncus>Or make the input a tree from the south-east. *shrug*
09:23<Skau1>http://norimg.no/bilde/349 this is what ive had most success with before
09:24<Rhamphoryncus>Combo signals. That's okay, but it would work better if the different paths were of similar length
09:24<Rhamphoryncus>A train going to the furthest platforms is blocking that route for a long time
09:25<Rhamphoryncus>Why the block entry signal on the exit side? They do nothing there, and if they did it'd be wrong
09:26<Skau1>i just placed wrong signal
09:26<Skau1>but didnt bother to change them, cause they work as a normal block signal
09:26<Rhamphoryncus>ah alright
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09:30<Skau1>Rhamphoryncus: http://norimg.no/bilder/350.png
09:30<Skau1>which one of these would be better?
09:31<Rhamphoryncus>neither :)
09:31<Skau1>no?
09:31<Skau1>hum
09:32<Rhamphoryncus>Branch from the middle, not the end
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09:34<Skau1>should i split 1 into 2, then 2 into 3x4?
09:36<Rhamphoryncus>Try different patterns
09:36<Rhamphoryncus>Also, make sure each platform has 3 or 5 tiles of dedicated track to give a train time to slow down after it clears the shared tracks
09:37<Skau1>http://norimg.no/bilder/351.png
09:37<Skau1>how about this?
09:38<Skau1>(using normal rails because i cant affor du build to tear down again :P
09:40<Rhamphoryncus>That should work
09:41<Skau1>should i use path signals or block entry signals?
09:43<Rhamphoryncus>path
09:43<Rhamphoryncus>Just one
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09:44<Rhamphoryncus>Of the one-way variant. It should be your default, only revering to two-way path signals when you explicitly want them
09:52<Skau1>how should i build the station exit lanes?
09:55<Skau1>one-way-path signal or "path signal" ?
09:55<Skau1>(btw?)
09:57<Baxxster>http://norimg.no/bilde/352 - Would this be somehow good to spare traffic on the main tracks ? (Just an example, was thinking of perhaps two input lanes rather than one)
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10:03<Rhamphoryncus>Skau1: just use ordinary block signals. No path or presignals
10:03<Skau1>two diffrent questions
10:03<Rhamphoryncus>oops :)
10:03<Skau1>should i use one way path or just path signal before station?
10:04<Rhamphoryncus>The exit can be a mirror of the entrance, but plastered with block signals
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10:04<Rhamphoryncus>one-way path signal is better. Normal path signals allow trains to go the other way, just with a high "cost", which can do very unexpected things
10:05<Skau1>k, ill try to build this then.. ill be back.. :P thanks for helping
10:05<Rhamphoryncus>Baxxster: I'm confused, what am I looking at?
10:05<Rhamphoryncus>np
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10:05<Baxxster>Rhamphoryncus, just a in / out system for a single depo on a lane
10:06<Baxxster>which will focus on taking the traffic away from my main lines
10:06<Rhamphoryncus>How would that get traffic off the main line?
10:07<Baxxster>main line isn't even connected there though, but I had an issue with placing the depo just in front of the stations which had 7 active lanes. I want the trains to go another place than anywhere near the stations to depo
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10:08<Rhamphoryncus>Ah, trains stuck somewhere they shouldn't be were using the depot to reverse?
10:09<Baxxster>No, it's just that I had one depo for liek 30-40 trains, and all had to go through the refinery station to get there, then they break down etc, block the passage out from the station just because they had to head through there, (I know they will break down everywhere, but just want to get all focus away from station and main lines)
10:09<Rhamphoryncus>one depot.. breakdowns enabled.. ugh ;)
10:10<Baxxster>I'm allowed to experiment! :P
10:10<Baxxster>Been trying to make alot of different systems to see whats working and whats not
10:11<Rhamphoryncus>I strongly suggest using a waypoint across multiple lanes, each with their own depot, and have the trains ordered to the waypoint followed by the depot
10:11<Rhamphoryncus>The waypoint ensures they'll balance in a less-stupid way than depot alone
10:11<Rhamphoryncus>(also, ctrl-click when placing a waypoint to merge with an existing waypoint that's not touching)
10:12<Baxxster>Hm, I'll have to read up a bit about waypoints. never really used them :P
10:12<Baxxster>But I think I understand it just by the name of it :P
10:13<Rhamphoryncus>For a station or waypoint a train doesn't care which track it gets, as long as it's part of the destination. (There's weighting to pick the closest/cheapest one, but you can manipulate that)
10:13<Rhamphoryncus>But a depot can't be merged with adjacent depots, and when a depot order it comes up the train picks the closest one at the moment the order is started
10:14<Rhamphoryncus>Which can lead to 30 trains all attempting the same depot, even though there's 20 to pick from
10:14<Baxxster>Yeah, I've noticed that. That's also why I've had one depo for all oil trains, one for all goods trains etc..
10:14<Baxxster>(But that also can mess up a bit)
10:14*Rhamphoryncus nods
10:15<Baxxster>Usually, before I tried that. I had one depo at each Cargo source, but they never really used them like I wanted to
10:15<Baxxster>So I can force them to go there by using a waypoint and merge it with the depo, am I right?
10:15<Baxxster>Ah, nvm
10:15<Rhamphoryncus>Another thing: if there's no depot orders in the orderlist a train will automatically go if it needs servicing and comes "near" one. If there's at least one depot order that behaviour shuts off and it only goes when the orders tell it. That's why there should be a depot order right after the waypoint order
10:16<Baxxster>Yeah, so when I click Go to depo, it first goes to the waypoint then
10:16<Rhamphoryncus>No, manually clicking go-to-depot still just picks the closest
10:17<Baxxster>So that's no way to fix that particular issue then? Only the maintain-issue?
10:17<Rhamphoryncus>The waypoint is for when you want a train serviced on every trip
10:17<Rhamphoryncus>yup, although if I'm gutting a set of trains I'll often modify the orders so they'll go to a depot and stop
10:18<Rhamphoryncus>(If you're making a new train that copies the orders of the old ones make sure to unshare before modifying the old orders!)
10:22<Baxxster>I see, Thanks :)
10:26<Skau1>ok done
10:26<Rhamphoryncus>If you're a little more insane you can use conditional orders to control it, so trains only go when it's actually necessary
10:26<Skau1>next time will be to figure out how to build the path to the stations
10:27<Skau1>i think i want overflow lanes for both stations.. better safe than sorry
10:28<Rhamphoryncus>I wouldn't do one for the drop station. It's likely to just slow them down
10:28<Skau1>hum
10:29<Skau1>either way i want the space to build one if i need it
10:29<Skau1>:P
10:29<Skau1>what is the best way to build this? just branch one lane to 4 or something?
10:30<Rhamphoryncus>For an overflow?
10:32<Skau1>yer
10:33<Rhamphoryncus>That's more of waiting bays than an overflow
10:34<Rhamphoryncus>An overflow typically involves a depot to hold an unlimited number of trains, but it's very finicky to get right
10:34<Rhamphoryncus>Waiting bays are easier and may perform better in practice
10:35<Rhamphoryncus>What you can do is take the branching entrance and stretch it out, putting 4 path signals in rather than just 1
10:35<Rhamphoryncus>You may still use the one for picking which waiting bay to use
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10:37<Rhamphoryncus>You can also take this to an extreme and have the deceleration lane become a waiting bay, with a block signal right before the platform. In conditions of moderate load a train will usually (95% of the time) pick an empty platform just because there's no train along that route
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10:43<Skau1>hum
10:43<Skau1>i have a theory, and in my mind its perfect.. but i dont really know for sure
10:43<Skau1>ill show you, sec
10:46<Rienzilla>hehe
10:46<Rienzilla>I've been fighting with this as well lol
10:47<Rienzilla>I've found that waiting bays are more or less mutually exclusive with trains waiting before a branch to pick an empty platform :)
10:47<Skau1>http://norimg.no/bilder/353.png so here you see my hopefully good solution of merging these two lanes
10:47<Rienzilla>unlesss you connect all waiting bays to all platforms with a complete merge to 1, then a patch signal, and then a branch to the platforms
10:48<Rienzilla>why the extra lane at (1)?
10:48<Rienzilla>(and this is the exit side, right?
10:48<Rhamphoryncus>The funky thing about having a waiting bay on each platform is that at a certain load level a train will pick a platform that's about to become empty, but isn't yet. By the time the train arrives it is empty and it glides right in
10:48<Skau1>If a train come from B, it has most likely accelerated to topspeed, so if it comes, the train from A , it will have alot less speed and choose path 1 instead
10:49<Skau1>and most likely end up behind the B train
10:49<Skau1>so noone really has to stop
10:49<Rhamphoryncus>Use a prio instead
10:49<Rhamphoryncus>And try to avoid such sharp turns. They limit the speed of the train
10:49<Rienzilla>Rhamphoryncus: it fails if a station is used for both dropoff and pickup (for example a station where you drop off iron ore and pick up steel
10:49<Skau1>45 degree turns?
10:50<Rhamphoryncus>Rienzilla: that will always fail if there's enough pickup trains to occupy all platforms
10:50<Rienzilla>Skau1: why no just make the lane longer and merge later when they both accelerated?
10:50<Skau1>cause then one of the train might have to stop anyway
10:50<Rhamphoryncus>Rienzilla: pickup and dropoff *need* to be separated. Either separate stations or separate routes into the station
10:50<Rienzilla>Rhamphoryncus: sure, but with waiting bays it fails even earlier, because a train with iron ore may be in a waiting bay behind an almost-full train of steel
10:51<Rienzilla>it won't deadlock, but it will take a lot longer
10:51<Rhamphoryncus>Ah yes, you can get a one-to-one kind of thing
10:51<Skau1>like.. in real life on the high way .. say you have 2 lanes going in one direction.. when a vehicle is on the acceleration ramp.. the correct thing to do is to change file so that he can merge without any problems
10:51<Skau1>that was my thought for this..
10:51<Skau1>:P
10:52<Rhamphoryncus>Skau1: it's a good thought, but sadly it won't work in openttd
10:52<Skau1>well..
10:52<Rhamphoryncus>You could just as well make station A always use track 1
10:52<Skau1>it may will if i make the train in path 1 slow down
10:52<Rienzilla>yeah I think that's much better
10:52<Rienzilla>and then just merge when the trains both accelerated
10:52<Skau1>yeah but they have to merge sometime either way
10:53<Rienzilla>I mean, if they happen to arrive there on the same time, one of them is going to have to brake one way or the other
10:53<Rienzilla>exactly
10:53<Skau1>or slow down
10:53<Rhamphoryncus>openttd doesn't have any sane form of "slow down" :/
10:53<Skau1>well
10:53<Rienzilla>no haha
10:53<Rienzilla>1 small hill will decel a maglev from 650 to 100km/h :)
10:53<Skau1>zigzag or up hill
10:54<Rienzilla>btw I wonder
10:54<Rhamphoryncus>That's why a priority merge is typically used
10:54<Rienzilla>what determines the amount of money you receive for a hail?
10:54<Skau1>so if i make path 1 zigzag, the train will slow down
10:54<Skau1>Rienzilla: who you hail!
10:54<Skau1>:P
10:55<Rhamphoryncus>hail?
10:55<Rienzilla>aul
10:55<Rienzilla>doh
10:55<Rienzilla>haul*
10:55<Rienzilla>lol, nice type :)
10:55<Rienzilla>typo :)
10:55<Rhamphoryncus>ahh. Google for openttd game mechanics. That's a page on the wiki
10:55<Rhamphoryncus>Skau1: go ahead and experiment, but I've never seen it done successfully
10:56<Rhamphoryncus>(I bet someone from openttdcoop will jump up and mention some very specialized form that worked in a very specialized case on a single game they played..)
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10:59<Rienzilla>ah, so if you have a coal mine next to a power plant, it's better to bring the coal to a completely different power plant on the other side of the map, as long as you do it fast enough
11:01<Rienzilla>and when does the clock start ticking? The moment you start loading or the moment you depart?
11:02<Rhamphoryncus>I believe the clock ticks when the train is moving, not loading/unloading. It definitely doesn't tick when the cargo is sitting in the station
11:03<Rhamphoryncus>The station rating is affected by cargo sitting in the station though, so you much prefer it to be on the train
11:03<Rienzilla>yeah I usually make sure there's always at least one train loading
11:03<Rhamphoryncus>that's best for ratings
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11:09<Guest1669>identify leanden
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11:17<@Belugas>hello
11:18<Skau1>Rhamphoryncus: ive made my test track now.. i only need to figure out how to set the lights and i can find out if my theory works or not
11:18<Skau1>:P
11:19<Rhamphoryncus>heh
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11:37<Skau1>hum.. looks kinda promising
11:45<peter1138>sdfsdfsdfsdfdsf6666d
11:45<peter1138>erm
11:46<Baxxster>is 2,295,000 liters max on oil rigs in production?
11:48<Skau1>Rhamphoryncus: i think i found a sweet way
11:49<Skau1>working with atleast trains with a total length of 14
11:49<Rhamphoryncus>Baxxster: about that, yeah
11:51<Skau1>Rhamphoryncus: http://norimg.no/bilder/354.png
11:51<Skau1>it works either way, even if A comes right after B or the other way around
11:51<Skau1>or at the same time
11:51<Rhamphoryncus>Heh. Still "racey" though
11:52<Skau1>huh?
11:52<Rhamphoryncus>They can both be committed to the middle path before they enter it
11:52<Rhamphoryncus>So one will stop at the signal
11:52<Skau1>that is only if the timing is REALLY bad
11:52<Skau1>:P
11:53<Skau1>but then, it just waits.. but most of the time it will be ok, right?
11:53<Rhamphoryncus>Even path signals can do that, since they don't recalculate at every tick
11:53<Rhamphoryncus>yeah
11:53<Rhamphoryncus>I would expect those corners to slow the trains down so much that the thing doesn't pay off
11:53<Skau1>nah, its actually better than stopping
11:54<Skau1>its just enough to come out right behind the other train
11:55<Rhamphoryncus>I'd have to see it to believe it :)
11:55<Rhamphoryncus>btw, realistic or original acceleration?
11:55<Skau1>dunno
11:55<Skau1>whatever is default
11:56<Leanden>realistic is default in latest versions of OTTD
11:56<Leanden>afaik
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12:01<NGC3982>might i use your general expertice in code for something unrelated?
12:02<Skau1>Rhamphoryncus
12:02<Skau1>http://www.twitch.tv/skau1/
12:02<NGC3982>im using excel, and im trying to fill out a cell with a random number, with zeroes to 7 digits.
12:02-!-tegro [~undefined@78-105-226-68.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:02<NGC3982>"5868" > "00005868", for instance.
12:02<Rhamphoryncus>Skau1: no flash
12:02<Skau1>hum
12:02<Skau1>then it might be hard to show you
12:02<Skau1>:P
12:04<NGC3982>=INT(A1 & REPT("0"; 8-LEN(A1))) is what i have found so far.
12:04<NGC3982>though, that puts the zeroes after the number
12:04<NGC3982>and i cant for the love of me understand how i change it.
12:05<Skau1>oh my fucking god!
12:05<Skau1>NOW the oil refinery went down and rebuilt itself another place
12:05<Skau1>-.-
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: 0 before the number is a pure formatting option
12:06<Rhamphoryncus>LOL
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12:06<NGC3982>yes, and i tried that. the thing is, all the numbers are of different amount of digits. it can be 156, 18948 or 1758478.
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12:07<Skau1>thats a total waste
12:07<Skau1>-.-
12:07<Leanden>NGC3982: I believe you can set when formatting the number of digits prior to the decimal point, thus always returning an 8 digit figure. IIRC
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12:10<Skau1>im atleast going to build my method of merging
12:17<+michi_cc>NGC3982: Set the cells to a custom format of "00000000".
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12:28<andythenorth>hmm
12:28<andythenorth>we should re-acronym NML
12:28<andythenorth>NML's not XML
12:30<V453000>btw andy I have reshuffled the grf and it works now :)
12:30<andythenorth>;)
12:32<V453000>AND I can actually orientate in the grf myself now
12:32<V453000>:oo
12:33<andythenorth>next step: separate files :P
12:33<andythenorth>V453000 are you using windows?
12:33<V453000>y!
12:34<V453000>separate files arent too needed atm, I use dreamweaver so I can collapse whole loads of text which I chose to collapse
12:35<andythenorth>ha
12:35<andythenorth>the weaver
12:35*andythenorth hasn't used dreamweaver for years
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12:45<NGC3982>michi_cc: thank you.
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12:53<andythenorth>frick
12:53<andythenorth>how do I chain switches in NML + CPP?
12:53<andythenorth>in a macro
12:53<andythenorth>ach
12:55<andythenorth>switch identifiers in nml must be unique?
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12:56<andythenorth>nvm
12:56*andythenorth does other stuff instead
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12:57<Skau1>http://norimg.no/bilder/355.png <- my merging system.. hopefully it will work as intended
12:57<Skau1>:P
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13:52<zxbiohazardzx>hmmz
13:52<zxbiohazardzx>is the snowline in jan lower then in rest of the year (@ 1.2.0 ) ?
13:52<zxbiohazardzx>changing the snowline height didnt change anything in the editor :(
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>depends on your NewGRFs
13:53<zxbiohazardzx>none
13:53<zxbiohazardzx>clean 1.2.0
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13:54<zxbiohazardzx>building a scenario works best on empty/clean stable revisions for some reasons :P
13:54-!-Matulla [~chatzilla@95-89-236-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd
13:54<Matulla>hi all is there a howto upgrade an airport ?
13:54<zxbiohazardzx>but with snowline height = 2 i get the same result as on 13
13:54<zxbiohazardzx>where i expected a diff
13:54<Matulla>if i deklete the old i cand get the same station name
13:55<zxbiohazardzx>you can?
13:55<zxbiohazardzx>control+click after demolish & select old name?
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>Matulla: ctrl+click
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13:55<Eddi|zuHause>lets you choose whether to reuse the old name or get a new one
13:55<Matulla>the old name is not there
13:56<Matulla>i know this with control
13:56<zxbiohazardzx>to slow :)?
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>Matulla: then your station would get too big
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>Matulla: increase station spread
13:56<Matulla>im on 12
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13:57<Matulla>i will see if i can manage this
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13:58<Matulla>the airport is just one tile larger then the old
13:58<Matulla>both XY directions
13:58<Matulla>and fits exactly in the cleand rom but it is not available to the old station name
13:59<zxbiohazardzx>nvm eddi i found my issue :P i forgot to clean newgrfs after my last generation haha
13:59<zxbiohazardzx>my bad soz
14:00<Matulla>ok thanks for the info
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14:02<krinn>hi
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14:05<@Alberth>hi
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14:08<krinn>anyone have info about openttd charset ? i'm looking for non-displayable chars limit, can this set change because of language or is it hardcoded ?
14:10<krinn>i think it use utf8, but the range might change base on language
14:10<@Alberth>afaik there are two possibilities
14:10<@Alberth>either you have a sprite font, which is very fixed
14:10<@Alberth>or you use a ttf font from your computer
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14:11<krinn>do you have a font with special chars yourself ? like accentued chars or something ?
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>you can provide additional characters to the sprite font by newgrf
14:12<@Alberth>the sprite font should be in the OpenGFX project
14:12<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, i'm only concern about a base "fixed" set i could use
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>most accented characters should be already present
14:12<zxbiohazardzx_>in scn-editor is it possible to change snowline height after the generation?
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14:12<zxbiohazardzx>in scn-editor is it possible to change snowline height after the generation?
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>zxbiohazardzx: tried from the console?
14:13<krinn>right now, range from 33 (dec) to 126 (dec) and maybe (127 if it's space) are usable and viewable here
14:13<zxbiohazardzx>no i was just checking gui and it didnt list
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: there are definitely more than that
14:13<zxbiohazardzx>also ofc wondering if it was acceptable to change the snowline height in scn-editor at all (no buildings at all, just land-mass creation atm
14:14<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, i have the full 255 set, but only those are displayable, it's ok if those are always displayable, it won't be ok if per example char 133 need a special font for that
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: utf8 does not have a "255 set"
14:15<krinn>well, i just limit myself to utf8/ascii set
14:15<krinn>i need a subset of that in fact
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: ascii has 128, and utf8 some 1 million
14:16<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, it might get clearer: it's char to be use in signs, so not all chars are ok for that
14:16<krinn>utf16 yes, but utf8 is kinda or equal to the plain ascii :)
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: i'm not quite sure what you actually think that utf8 is
14:17-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d008605.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
14:17<krinn>well, it's not really the problem the name of the set :)
14:17<krinn>just to make sure any openttd will "draw in sign" that char
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>you're talking complete gibberish
14:19<zxbiohazardzx>lies Eddi, i can read gibberish better then above
14:19<krinn>hmmm, give up the charset name, back to root : displayable char set in signs
14:19<zxbiohazardzx>++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
14:19<zxbiohazardzx>that is Hello World!
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>yes, we know that, zxbiohazardzx.
14:20<zxbiohazardzx>XD
14:20<zxbiohazardzx>boredom struck
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: if openttd has a sprite for the character, it is displayable. there is no comprehensive list of "ranges"
14:21-!-Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-230-134.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
14:21<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, then i'm looking for "worst" case scenario
14:21<krinn>hihi without the "totally fuck" 0 char displayable answer :)
14:22-!-roadt [~roadt@114.96.138.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>Ä or € are displayable
14:23<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: happy?
14:23*Alberth settles with the 1 character displayable answer, namely SPACE :p
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>ð possibly not
14:23<krinn>€ is not displayable for me, even the € appears next to my credits
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i actually couldn't care less :p
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: then you are not writing utf8
14:24<zxbiohazardzx>Eddi how do i change the snowline height via console
14:24<krinn>squirrel could have put a limit there too
14:25<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: then why did you bug me with it?
14:25<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, can i send you a small AI displaying 0-255 chars in console to get the answer? i could make one for the test
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: THERE ARE NO 255 CHARS IN UTF8!!
14:26<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: mind you I am not talking (at all) about what ever you are talking currently
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: i assumed the bad gateway
14:26<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, 255 is enough for me, and i'm not saying utf8 this time :)
14:26<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: you assumed correct
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: THERE IS NO 255 CHAR IN UTF8 AT ALL. it doesn't matter whether it is "enough"
14:27<krinn>i accept that, as i don't really care :)
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: really, i don't think you have a clue what utf8 actually is.
14:30<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, what would i bug you else ?
14:30<krinn> /s/what/why
14:30<krinn>and i think i start bad asking openttd limit, where i might see squirrel limit
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: maybe you should stick to numbers
14:31<krinn>and i think it's more unicode
14:31<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, i should yep
14:32<krinn>so the question remain : char 33 decimal -> 127 decimal are displayable in the console and signs, is it always the case even user use a different fonts/language ?
14:32*Alberth guesses no, as there is no way to know what ttf file a user installs
14:32-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
14:34<krinn>Alberth, this is the basic set of char define in ascii set, all extended set should kept include this one
14:34<@Alberth>do you really think a chinese character set has ASCII characters, just because you think so?
14:35<andythenorth>so
14:35<andythenorth>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1355/
14:35<andythenorth>how do I make that 9 or so switches in a chain?
14:35<krinn>Alberth, i'm not sure, that's why the question, but i think yes
14:35<@Alberth>krinn: but why do you want to know, as there is no guarantee that a user can read what you write
14:35<andythenorth>it needs multiple varadic macros
14:35<andythenorth>last time I checked, that required about 5 LOC for each macro definition
14:36<andythenorth>I need to replace !! next_house_check_switch!! with something CPP
14:36<krinn>Alberth, for an extended set there's none, as to see € you need support for it, but not to see "Abc"...
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that doesn't make a lot of sense
14:37<krinn>andythenorth, welcome to the club :)
14:37<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: which bit doesn't make sense?
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the "return !!next_house_check_switch!!;" ... what should that achieve?
14:39<andythenorth>goes to the next switch in this chain
14:39*Alberth ponders suggesting m4 to generate CPP :p
14:39<andythenorth>Alberth: python can generate CPP
14:39<andythenorth>I did it for BANDIT :P
14:39<@Alberth>oh even better :)
14:39<@Alberth>a nice recursive function?
14:40<@Alberth>although iterative is easier to understand :)
14:40<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I haven't written the other switches needed
14:40<andythenorth>I could do that if it helps
14:40<andythenorth>but I can't see how to chain to them
14:40<@Alberth>just put the switch there?
14:40<zxbiohazardzx>is it possible in the scn-editor to change snowline height after map is generated? (and if so then how?)
14:41<andythenorth>hmm
14:41<@Alberth>no idea whether that would work
14:41<andythenorth>if there's no reason to use the same macro twice, then the problem is relatively simple
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: just continue writing the switches into the chain, with some variadic CONCAT(THIS_ID(name), _1) macro
14:42<andythenorth>or I just force that this macro is only used once per industry
14:43<andythenorth>and nml refuses to compile if you want to use this macro twice
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>that is not the point
14:44<andythenorth>or I just call one switch 9 times from the industry code
14:44<andythenorth>passing x,y params
14:44<andythenorth>which is ugly
14:44<andythenorth>but would work
14:46<andythenorth>nobody wins prizes for writing complicated CPP
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>who said this is complicated?
14:47<@Alberth>andy
14:47<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, i found the set i need, the widget showing they keyboard
14:48-!-roadt [~roadt@114.96.138.75] has joined #openttd
14:48<krinn>build a sign, edit the sign, double click empty space in the sign name edit -> the little keyboard display ones i was thinking as "always displable" !
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: the content of that keyboard depends on language
14:49<andythenorth>hmm
14:49<krinn>Eddi|zuHause :(
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that is definitely the point where i think "this would work way better in python"
14:52<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: +0.5
14:52<andythenorth>according to Apache rules :P
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but it should be simple CPP, just copy pasting too much
14:52<andythenorth>I agree, but I am where I am
14:53<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, ok tried, the console doesn't depend on language (and it was hard to read swedish to click ok ^^ )
14:54<andythenorth>actually 8 separate macro calls is better
14:54<andythenorth>my method is flawed entirely though :(
14:54<andythenorth>I'm checking 8 tiles around the north tile for houses
14:55<andythenorth>but some of those places aren't valid to build because they will block the tiles the industry needs
14:55<andythenorth>and industry layouts vary
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: take the size of the largest layout
14:55<andythenorth>k
15:05<andythenorth>hmm
15:05<andythenorth>lies
15:07<andythenorth>ach
15:07<andythenorth>offset for nearby_tile_class is unsigned for industries
15:07<andythenorth>can I be arsed to move this to a tile check?
15:08<andythenorth>someone remind me, why is using the special industry flags so bad?
15:08<andythenorth>[for locating in town]
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15:11<+michi_cc>krinn: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/raw/sprites/png/gui/fonts.png + http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/raw/sprites/png/gui/font_addl.png + http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/raw/sprites/png/gui/medfontcond.png should about cover the font (unless I forgot some file).
15:11-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
15:12<krinn>thank you michi_cc !
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15:20<andythenorth>hmm
15:20*andythenorth stopped whining and wrote industry tile code :P
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15:27<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I used your suggestion of 'houses within n tiles' - works well for builders yard
15:27-!-cftm [~xvd@seven.medozas.de] has joined #openttd
15:28<andythenorth>town zones don't make good industry location criteria
15:28-!-Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you should close down grocer store if it moves into zone 4-5, and adjust the hotel graphics?
15:30<andythenorth>closing due to town zone change is intriguing
15:31<cftm>1. An industry produces X cargo which is distributed among all stations (possibly owned by different players), or 2. each station square receives independent amounts from an industry. Which one of the two holds?
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>if i understood the zones correctly (from inside to outside), small towns have 2-0, medium towns (4-)3-1-0 and large towns 5-4-3-1-0
15:32-!-Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd
15:32<Rubidium>cftm: neither
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>so if you allow grocer store to only open in zone 2, mall open in zone 1 and stadium in zone 3?
15:33-!-KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-195-242.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
15:33<andythenorth>hmm
15:33<andythenorth>maybe I combine them with the special flag
15:33<andythenorth>for overbuilding houses
15:33<Rubidium>cftm: it goes to the two stations that have the industry in their catchment area which have the highest station rating. The ratings also define the amount of cargo each station gets.
15:34-!-Progman [~progman@p57A19B93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:35<cftm>I have a 71% rating on my station for ore, the AI has 21%. How would this translate to served cargo?
15:36<NGC3982>the rating is not correspondent to the share of cargo you get
15:36<NGC3982>first of
15:36<cftm>Of course not.
15:37<NGC3982>oh, im sorry, i wasnt reading your question correctly.
15:37<krinn>cftm http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Cargo_delivery_to_stations
15:38<Skau1>can a train pick up oil from a dock that is not linked to the station, but within range?
15:39<andythenorth>no
15:39<Rubidium>the cargo that is moved to the station is multiplied by the maximum station rating. Then the 'second' highest rating station gets rating2 / (rating1 + rating2)% and the highest rated station gets the rest
15:39<Rubidium>@calc 21/(21+71)
15:39<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 0.228260869565
15:40<Rubidium>so you'd get 71*(1-0.23)% and the AI gets 71*0.23%
15:40<Rubidium>give or take a bit for rounding and such
15:45-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1177643171.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd
15:45<drac_boy>hi
15:45<krinn>hi
15:45<andythenorth>FIRS 0.7.4: 5 tickets open, 5 tickets closed
15:45<drac_boy>how're you krinn?
15:45<krinn>keep whining, for me it means i'm fine so
15:46<Nat_aS>man, I'm not sure if my ships are actualy earning me money
15:46<Nat_aS>because they take I think three years to get to port
15:47<Nat_aS>they earn 100k when they get there, but have a running cost of 25k a year
15:47<drac_boy>no thanks krinn :p
15:47<Nat_aS>I'm not sure exactly how long it takes them to get to port, so I can't run the math with conficance.
15:47<Rubidium>andythenorth: almost 1.0 time then! ;)
15:47<drac_boy>Nat_aS why are you not sending your boat to th nearest land point instead?
15:47<Nat_aS>and i shouldn't have to be running the math anyways, why can't I change the setting to show lifetime income?
15:47<Nat_aS>or 10 year income?
15:48<Nat_aS>because I don't have a near-er port
15:48<drac_boy>Nat_aS you playing a mostly-water map I assume?
15:48<Nat_aS>yes cuba
15:48<krinn>Nat_aS, always a problem to me, just consider them loosing money except if you take care of the good at rafinery
15:49<Nat_aS>if it's three years, they are making a profit
15:49<Nat_aS>if it's 4 years, they might not be
15:49<drac_boy>well i dunno, if you're trying to get to oilrigs that are way out in the ocean...then I only can tell you to consider some sort of freight helicopter or a liquids-carrying hovercraft :)
15:49<Nat_aS>judging by my fudgy math
15:49<drac_boy>sorry if you didn't like that suggestion :)
15:49<Nat_aS>it's goods ships.
15:49<Nat_aS>I could use the hovercraft
15:50<Nat_aS>and build a million of them
15:50<Rubidium>drac_boy: because the titanic didn't go from Lands End to Sydney (the one in Canada just north of Halifax)?
15:50<Nat_aS>yeah the point of ships is long hauls
15:50<Rubidium>it's totally unreal for ships to go to the nearest land
15:51<Nat_aS>and the ingame economy is based on the idea of bigger longer hauls
15:51<Nat_aS>and the engine updates allow for redicliously huge maps
15:51<Nat_aS>but the interface has not been updated to support that
15:51<krinn>Rubidium, not if their motors are dead
15:53<drac_boy>Rubidium actually I do go for the nearest land...no point in wasting the crew and fuel just to parallel the land. then again I often buy into ships that have small hulls tho
15:53<andythenorth>Rubidium: only another 70 tickets to go :P
15:53<andythenorth>also, I need a patch accepted
15:54<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=59570
15:56<Rubidium>too bad I'm trying to hunt a desync
15:58<andythenorth>:)
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16:03<andythenorth>hmm
16:03<andythenorth>manhattan distances are fun
16:04-!-zxbiohazardzx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Now if you will excuse me, I have a giant ball of oil to throw out my window]
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16:06<Rubidium>@calc 5*256/365
16:06<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 3.50684931507
16:06*Rubidium dislikes rerunning 3.5 years for desync debugging. Takes so long
16:07<Rubidium>especially when I've already done it like 20 times
16:08<andythenorth>this: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2887/too_many.png
16:08<andythenorth>will be stopping
16:08<Rubidium>ye olde ale brewery?
16:09-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-99-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd
16:09<andythenorth>ye olde 5 hardware stores next to each other
16:09<drac_boy>heh
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>ERROR: YouTube said: Unfortunately, this video is not available in Germany because it may contain music for which GEMA has not granted the respective music rights.
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>go fuck yourselves!
16:11<Nat_aS>can somebody explain timetables to me?
16:11<Nat_aS>how do I get my trains to maximize spacing between themselves>
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>nobody in this world understands timetables.
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16:12<Nat_aS>there should just be a button that makes trains in the same group try to get as far away from each other as possible.
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>Nat_aS: you let a train run one time, then add buffer times so you get a nice round number and can catch up delays, and then you set start dates for each train
16:12<Nat_aS>what is autofill?
16:13<Nat_aS>and expected/scheduled?
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>Nat_aS: autofill will read the times the train takes on the first round
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>Nat_aS: and expected/scheduled only change the display, they do nothing
16:14<andythenorth>I tried timetables once
16:14<andythenorth>plain odd
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>i'll make a fully timetabled network once...
16:14-!-Pixa [~pixa@85.210.66.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>but it needs partial routes to be anywhere close to sane
16:22<Nat_aS>also, does timetables work with shared orders?
16:22<Nat_aS>I wish I could just build stations, and the create a route that will connect the stations, and then assign trains to it
16:22<Nat_aS>and they will space themselves automaticly
16:22<andythenorth>'wait until preceeding train with shared orders has left station?'
16:22<Nat_aS>I also wish there was a way to sort by Running cost and reliability
16:23<Nat_aS>or running cost and cargo capacity
16:23<Nat_aS>or running cost and speed
16:23*andythenorth forsees deadlock
16:23<Nat_aS>or power/ running cost within a range
16:23<Nat_aS>andythenorth, something like that, only more flexible to avoid the deadlock
16:23<Nat_aS>make ti fuzzy
16:24<Nat_aS>or, filter by train type
16:24<Nat_aS>as in only show steam engines, or freight engines
16:25<Nat_aS>ALSO
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: typically you'd do "leave when next train arrives"
16:25<Nat_aS>trains should not autorenue when they are up for replacemnt
16:25<Nat_aS>FFFFS
16:25<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: would need a fudge factor
16:25<Nat_aS>spends half a million dollars on an obsolete train when I was saving up for a better one
16:26<andythenorth>otherwise they all wait for each other...
16:26*Nat_aS punches a wall
16:26<andythenorth>also
16:26<andythenorth>wtf?
16:26<andythenorth>FIRS hotel randomises production
16:26<andythenorth>how is it doing that :o
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
16:28*andythenorth is genuinely puzzle
16:28<andythenorth>d
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of randomize?
16:29<andythenorth>on game start
16:29<andythenorth>it's a black hole industry
16:29<andythenorth>production cb is not used at all
16:29<andythenorth>maybe that's why
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>my guess is some kind of default behaviour kicking in
16:30<andythenorth>sounds right
16:33<@Terkhen>hello
16:33<Nat_aS>why does ISR not have a low container platform?
16:34<andythenorth>because you didn't code it yet? ;)
16:36<andythenorth>hi Terkhen
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16:48<oskari89>!seen DanMacK
16:48<oskari89>Does not work here?
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 225**2/(172*286*4.2)
16:49<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 0.245031131659
16:49<@Terkhen>@seen DanMack
16:49<@DorpsGek>Terkhen: DanMack was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 5 days, 4 hours, 6 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <DanMacK> WB Andy
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 225**2/((172+5*3)*(286+5*3)*(4.2+5*.03))
16:50<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 0.20676054923
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 225**2/((172+15*3)*(286+15*3)*(4.2+15*.03))
16:50<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 0.15157387576
16:50<Wolf01>'nighty night
16:50-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r24179 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move some variables of Town to TownCache
16:50<andythenorth>Terkhen: DanMacK has pm-ed me recently
16:50<Nat_aS>oh, autofill seems to be doing a good job
16:50<Nat_aS>my express trains are moving like clockwork
16:51<andythenorth>oops wrong person
16:51<andythenorth>oskari89: ^^^^
16:51*andythenorth teaches FIRS town industries to be less stupid
16:52<andythenorth>FIRS may suck less soon
16:58<@Terkhen>:P
16:58<@Terkhen>since when does FIRS suck?
16:58<NGC3982>i like it :(
17:01-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1177643171.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!]
17:01<andythenorth>Terkhen: it sucks pretty bad, or there wouldn't be 70 open tickets :)
17:03<oskari89>@seen Pikka
17:03<@DorpsGek>oskari89: Pikka was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 1 day, 7 hours, 10 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <Pikka> nah
17:03<andythenorth>I've closed 14 FIRS bugs, only 2 left
17:04<andythenorth>oskari89: pikka has either got a job, or is playing minecrack
17:04<oskari89>Okay, i see :P
17:04<andythenorth>hmm
17:04<NGC3982>minecrack?
17:04<NGC3982>ah, minecraft.
17:05*andythenorth shouldn't claim credit for FIRS bug closing
17:05<NGC3982>why not?
17:05<andythenorth>most are fixed by other people
17:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r24180 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp saveload/town_sl.cpp): -Codechange/feature-ish: add cache checker for the town's cache
17:06<NGC3982>speaking of
17:06*andythenorth wonders what this ticket means http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3352
17:06<NGC3982>what is this data that CIA-1 always gives us
17:06<NGC3982>closed bugs?
17:07<andythenorth>commits
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>the CIA is collecting data of this channel
17:07<andythenorth>see http://vcs.openttd.org/
17:07<NGC3982>i see.
17:08<NGC3982>and these things are then submitted in the next update?
17:08<andythenorth>kind of yes
17:08<NGC3982>neat
17:09<andythenorth>if you play a nightly build, it includes these recent commits
17:09<NGC3982>ok
17:09<andythenorth>or if you build your own from src
17:10*andythenorth gets rid of another FIRS bug, by recategorising it :P
17:10<andythenorth>1 open bug
17:10<NGC3982>:D
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you realize you're only one ticket away from having to implement economies? :)
17:12<andythenorth>nope
17:12<andythenorth>that's beyond me with the current codebase
17:12<andythenorth>someone else will have to do it
17:12<andythenorth>I could do it in python :P
17:12*andythenorth is happy to offer commit rights, or review + test patches
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think it would be too difficult
17:13<andythenorth>with python I'd literally just duplicate all the code, and wrap it in a 'skip if param = foo'
17:13<andythenorth>which is brutal
17:13<andythenorth>but would work
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>"duplicate code" is just "#include <blah>"
17:14<andythenorth>it would result in about 0.5m LOC
17:14<andythenorth>nearly as much as CETS :)
17:14<andythenorth>it would be a 10MB grf
17:14<andythenorth>hmm
17:14<andythenorth>might be bad
17:14<andythenorth>who pays bandwidth?
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17:15<Eddi|zuHause>CETS has only like 270kloc of nml code
17:16*andythenorth likes to exagerate ;)
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>ca 100k sprites
17:17<Volley>i have some serious performance problem when running openttd 1.2 on a box with fglrx drivers (debian wheezy 64bit) - any known issues / workarounds / whatever?
17:17<Rubidium>try the 32bpp-optimized blitter
17:17<Rubidium>try increasing the spritecache in openttd.cfg (the configuration file)
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>i've never had any such problems with fglrx...
17:19<@Terkhen>andythenorth: I don't see the relation between "it sucks" and open tickets :P
17:23<andythenorth>:P
17:23<andythenorth>Terkhen: next time you have free time, would you mind explaining the spritelayouts to me?
17:24<andythenorth>they are the only bit of code that I really still don't understand
17:24<@Terkhen>sure
17:24<@Terkhen>I have miniholidays, starting this friday
17:24<@Terkhen>I'll have plenty of time once I'm back home :)
17:24<andythenorth>mostly I am confused that they appear to be implemented in multiple ways
17:25<andythenorth>did you guys find improved methods as you wrote them?
17:26<@Terkhen>IIRC we improved how we dealt with them in the middle of the conversion
17:26<andythenorth>that would make sense
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17:26<andythenorth>I am happy to refactor them, but I don't know which method is correct
17:26<andythenorth>also...bed time ;)
17:27<@Terkhen>for me too
17:27<@Terkhen>good night
17:27<andythenorth>good night
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17:30<Volley>hmm ... spritecache was allready at max according to a wiki page i found, blitter setting didn't seem to change anything either ...
17:31<Volley>really weird ... i get like 1 fps at the start screen when using fglrx, while things feel smooth when using the radeon driver. ( which unfortunately isn't exactely a option because of other apps needs )
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18:13<Skau1>@calc ( ( (9576/10) * 384 ) / 20 ) * 846
18:13<@DorpsGek>Skau1: 15554488.32
18:14<Skau1>@calc 15554488.32 / 12
18:14<@DorpsGek>Skau1: 1296207.36
18:15<Skau1>@calc 145000000 / 12
18:15<@DorpsGek>Skau1: 12083333.3333
18:15<Skau1>ok so 1 296 207 GBP is about maximum of what i could get for my goods train
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18:16<Skau1>@calc 14500000 / 12
18:16<@DorpsGek>Skau1: 1208333.33333
18:16<Skau1>1 208 333 GBP is what im getting
18:16<Skau1>could be worse, right? :P
18:16<Nat_aS>oh wow
18:16<Nat_aS>my network has PASSENGER TRAINS slowing down freight trains
18:17<Nat_aS>(they both use the fastest engine and cars with high speed limits, but the PAX trains stop at each station
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18:18<Skau1>damn openttd
18:19<Skau1>since i started playing i havent been able to go to be untill 5AM or so
18:19<Skau1>even 6AM
18:20<Skau1>tonight i have to go to bed early.. think im going to take a shower, then to bed.. hopefully before 1AM (0:20AM now)
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18:44<Skau1>http://norimg.no/bilde/356
18:44<Skau1>ok, after hours of experimenting, i finally did it
18:44<Skau1>:P
18:45<Skau1>not sure how it will handly high capacity, but according to my tests.. it works well
18:45<Skau1>if lane is taken, it will go to another lane, slow down and come out behind the other train.. and doesnt have to stop.. quicker acceleration etc
18:47<Skau1>ok, i had to do a slight modification due to too much brake power in the outer lane
18:47<Volley>about my performance problem when running openttd with fglrx: i still couldn't solve the problem, but it seems that using a compositing windowmanager helps greatly ( 5-10x faster faster ), almost as fast as it should be.
18:52<Nat_aS>man, I am going to have to upgrade my stations
18:52<Nat_aS>and possibly switch to a quad track layout
18:52<Nat_aS>my double track is getting jammed
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19:10<Skau1>http://norimg.no/bilder/357.png
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19:11<Skau1>why arent this priority merge working? :S
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19:21<Eddi|zuHause>Skau1: those are entry signals (horizontal yellow bar), they need to be combo signals (vertical yellow bar)
19:21<Skau1>oh
19:24*Eddi|zuHause is always amazed how people build the most elaborate junctions, yet there are never any trains in the screenshots
19:24<Nat_aS>lol
19:24<Nat_aS>I think the super efficant stations look ugly
19:24<Nat_aS>and unrealistic
19:25<Nat_aS>and I have noticed, often times there are no trains in the screenshots of those eithe
19:25<Nat_aS>:P
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19:28<Skau1>i cant go for performance over looks :)
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20:53<Nat_aS>if your engine takes up half the lenght of the train, that means your stations are too short right?
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22:09<Nat_aS>why the fuck does a station that is the hub of my raill network have appaling station ratings?
22:09<Nat_aS>and why does the town have an appaling rating dispite me doing nothing to it in decades?
22:12<Rhamphoryncus>A crash can reset ratings to 0
22:13<Rhamphoryncus>Destroying trees in the proximity of the town is the easiest way to drop town ratings to 0
22:15<Rhamphoryncus>Replacing the trees (1/tile is sufficient) is the quickest way to get town rating back up
22:15<Rhamphoryncus>But if only half the trees are gone.. destroy the other half too. Can't get any worse than 0 and replanting them will boost you back up :)
22:28<Nat_aS>lol
22:28<Nat_aS>i know
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22:28<Nat_aS>but I had not touched the trees in decades
22:28<Nat_aS>also, I like how they care more about trees than filling in rivers
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22:31<Nat_aS>there needs to be a way to automaticly refresh advertising campaigns
22:43<Rhamphoryncus>Build a statue instead
22:43<Rhamphoryncus>Rivers are a new addition. I doubt they're even aware of them
22:51<Nat_aS>no I mean like coastlines
22:51<Nat_aS>not rive tiles, but waterways and such
22:51<Rhamphoryncus>Ah, well.. yeah, it's silly ;)
22:52<Nat_aS>that honestly should be the biggest town opinion infuencer.
22:52<Nat_aS>IRL that's the only environmental infraction the government really cracks down on, at least in the US.
22:53<Nat_aS>Cut down all the tress you want, chop the tops off of mountains, but if you so much as TOUCH a wetland, god help you.
22:55<Rhamphoryncus>heh
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 26 00:00:44 2012