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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-04-30

---Logopened Mon Apr 30 00:00:04 2012
---Daychanged Mon Apr 30 2012
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00:40<ElusiveParticle>Excuse me. But would you please visit my website? www.elusiveparticle.tk Thank you so much!
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02:16<NGC3982>morning :)
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02:17<Alberth>moin
02:20<NGC3982>whats up
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02:25<Alberth>it's a new day
02:27<@Terkhen>good morning
02:28<telanus>hi
02:31<NGC3982>Alberth: http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/015/orly.jpg
02:31<NGC3982>;)
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02:32<Alberth>nah, it's not :)
02:33<Alberth>does anyone know a function to escape arbitrary unicode for html in python?
02:33<Alberth>ie to prevent it being interpreted as html-tags
02:36<Alberth>oh, cgi.esape seems to do the trick :)
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03:26<dihedral>greetings
03:29<Alberth>o/
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04:00-!-mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ
04:00-!-mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ
04:00-!-mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
04:01-!-mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ
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04:44<NGC3982>what is the main language behind openttd? python?
04:44<__ln__>dutch
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04:44<NGC3982>;)
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04:47<Alberth>ASCII
04:49<Alberth>source code gets written in C++, AI/Scripts in Squirrel, NewGRFs in NFO or NML, websites in HTML. Take your pick :)
04:49<NGC3982>ah, i see.
04:49<NGC3982>well, im trying to read up as much as i can, since i want to create my first own grf.
04:49<NGC3982>im complete with the idea (as simple as it can be), and i just need to start the actual creating, i guess.
04:50<Alberth>nice, what do you want to make?
04:50*telanus wonder if a Kilngon Translation of openttd would be possible (or Drow)
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04:50<NGC3982>a modification of the standard industries of the temperate climate, where i can directly stimulate the raw material industry output with passengers.
04:51<Alberth>telanus: sure, just translate 4000 strings or so :)
04:51<Eddi|zuHause>telanus: as long as you have a font containing the unicode-points, and invest the time in doing it...
04:51<NGC3982>that is the first one ill start with, and after that i wish to make citys produce "workers" (similar to "tourists" in ECS), that will stimulate the industries.
04:51<NGC3982>but the second one will have to wait
04:52<NGC3982>since i need to get my head around coding and get things to actually work at first.
04:52<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: nml is the choice for your project then
04:52<NGC3982>ok
04:52<@Terkhen>for any modification of the standard industries I suggest checking the NML tutorial ( http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial ) and the source code for OpenGFX+ Industries ( http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-industries )
04:52<NGC3982>ok
04:52<NGC3982>thank you.
04:54<NGC3982>the thing is, i guess ill start with getting familiar with the software, and then take a look at how other grfs stimulates growth with passengers/material
04:56<@Terkhen>good :)
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05:14<NGC3982>the wiki page seems to know my feelings pretty well
05:14<NGC3982>"Does the above sound impressive, maybe even threatening to you?"
05:14<NGC3982>made a nervous swallow at that point.
05:16<dihedral>openttd is a sophisticated trojan ;-)
05:16<NGC3982>:D
05:17<NGC3982>although, im very happy with the NML, as seen on the example in the wiki page
05:17<NGC3982>since NFO looks like a god forsaken mess
05:17<Eddi|zuHause>it makes a lot of sense, if you can think in assembler
05:18<NGC3982>im a few months in learning C#, and i recognize the basics, at least.
05:20<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: thinking in hexadecima; numbers already helps :)
05:21<Eddi|zuHause>i get annoyed by assembler very quickly
05:21<Eddi|zuHause>things start to get repetitive and tedious
05:22<Eddi|zuHause>which is the point when i start to write a code generator :p
05:22<Alberth>I find assembly language more readable than nfo, tbh, at least you have mnemonics there which give a hint what it is about :)
05:22<Eddi|zuHause>well, you have escapes in nfo :)
05:22<Eddi|zuHause>\2sto :p
05:24<Alberth>telanus1: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/export/24187/trunk/src/lang/english.txt is your starting point
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05:36<NGC3982>if i understand this correctly, OpenGFX+ is a grf contaigning all the usual industries, but with some version changes?
05:36<NGC3982>and that would be the base of my modification, then.
05:38<Alberth>indeed, it mostly changes default industries, unlike FIRS or ECS, which create completely new industries
05:40<NGC3982>ah, i see. perfect.
05:41<NGC3982>making new stuff from scratch is as of the moment a step to big.
05:41<@Terkhen>and the changes are not too invasive :)
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05:47<NGC3982>knock on wood..
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06:04<NGC3982>planetmaker: you have a really cool name,.
06:13<NGC3982>ah, there we are
06:13<NGC3982>all i need now is an editor.
06:15*Alberth gives gvim
06:16<Alberth>NGC3982: planetmaker is going to be so happy with your useless highlighting
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06:23<NGC3982>if such a thing is prohibited in a chat channel, i would be much obliged if that is stated beforehand.
06:24<TinoDidriksen>It's not prohibited.
06:25<Alberth>but only used when you need that person for something
06:26<TinoDidriksen>Yeah, that is the common IRC community guideline.
06:30<|Jeroen|>yeah useless highlighting i a great offence, i hate it when i have to get out of the sofa for no good reason
06:30<NGC3982>one can clearly notice, this channel does not work like the rest.
06:31<TinoDidriksen>I have not so far seen an IRC channel where spurious highlighting was tolerated, and I'm in quite a lot of them across several networks. It's just how IRC works. But a highlight to praise a name is fine...
06:32<NGC3982>i fail to see the the controversy behind hilighting a nick for a personal message.
06:32*Rubidium praises NGC1300 instead ;)
06:33<NGC3982>if he does not approve of it, he better tell me off or state such in the topic.
06:33<NGC3982>Rubidium: http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/oh-stop-it-you.png
06:33<TinoDidriksen>I agree that the specific highlight was fine.
06:36<NGC3982>Alberth: can you rekommend gvim? :)
06:37*Alberth nods
06:37<@planetmaker>moin :-)
06:37<Alberth>moin planetmaker :)
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06:42<Rubidium>Alberth: it's called cif now ;)
06:45<Alberth>good, they made room for the editor, I see :)
06:47<Alberth>Hmm, annotating an utf-8 file with BOM bombs out, as the moves to behind the revision number :p
06:47<Alberth>s/the/the BOM/
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06:49<rails>hm
06:50<rails>is there like, a recommendes spec for an openttd dedicated server?
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06:55<krinn>hi, i can't get my console login with -d ai=5 in openttd 1.2 ? I suppose the function isn't remove, but has change, to what please ?
06:55<NGC3982>Alberth: im sorry, this might not be related to you (or openttd at all), but do you know if i need something else then gvim to open the grf file (ogfx-industries.grf)?
06:56<NGC3982>when i open it (without any settings) in gvim, i just get alot of jibberish.
06:56<NGC3982>or so it seems, at least.
06:56<Alberth>gfr is a binary format, you cannot open it, except in a hex editor
06:56<Alberth>*grf
06:56<Zuu>krinn: Works here except that it complains that ai=5 is an unknown debug level. (I used r24186 though)
06:56<Alberth>why don't you look at its source?
06:57<NGC3982>the source?
06:57<Alberth>otherwise, you have to decode the grf with grfcodec or grf2html
06:57<Alberth>source is called .nfo or .nml or .pnml or so
06:57<Zuu>Same result on 1.2
06:57<NGC3982>oh, ok
06:57<Zuu>"-d" opens up the console window in windows.
06:58<Zuu>You get compile errors for AI and GS there.
06:58<krinn>well, doesn't work anymore here :(
06:58<NGC3982>Alberth: i think i need to read more on the systems behind coding like this.
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06:58<Rubidium>krinn, Zuu: it's probably -dscript=5 now
06:58<NGC3982>i dont think i really understand the system
06:58<Alberth>NGC3982: what are you trying to do?
06:59<krinn>Rubidium, nope, same trouble: Unknown debug level 'dscript=5'
06:59<Alberth>ie why do you want to open the grf file?
06:59<krinn>Rubidium, and no output in console
06:59<NGC3982>Alberth: edit the grf file, and learn about how to change the (a) grf.
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07:00<krinn>Rubidium, oh sorry it works !
07:00<Alberth>NGC3982: oh, don't do that :)
07:00<krinn>Rubidium, i have tried -d dscript=5 when it was simply -d script=5
07:00<NGC3982>;-(
07:00<krinn>Rubidium, thank you
07:00<NGC3982>stupid NGC3982 thought it would be as simple as opening the file and editing the NML code.
07:00<Alberth>the NewGRF system allows making a newgrf that overrides settings of existing industries
07:00<NGC3982>:)
07:01<Alberth>so you have to make a new newgrf, that adds pax as input cargo to the mine(?)
07:01<NGC3982>yes
07:02<Alberth>write nml code with any text editor
07:02<Alberth>and use nmlc to code it to a grf
07:02<NGC3982>and so i thought, using the opengfx+ grf and simply change it.
07:02<NGC3982>would do the trick
07:02<Alberth>load the grf in openttd, and run it :)
07:02<NGC3982>hm, ok.
07:03<NGC3982>but, how can i do that? i have no experience in the code what so ever. the reason for me wanting to edit an existing grf is to learn about how the code works.
07:03<Alberth>if you want to edito opengfx+industries, that's possible too, just download the source
07:03<NGC3982>oh, i thought i had the source.
07:03<NGC3982>:D
07:03<@planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-industries
07:03<NGC3982>yes, that is what i downloaded. i thought the .grf file was the source.
07:04<NGC3982>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-industries , that is.
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07:04<@planetmaker>yes, I typed by heart
07:04<NGC3982>:)
07:05<@planetmaker>but.. that's not a download page. It's the project's page which also has the source (link)(
07:05<NGC3982>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-industries/releases/LATEST/
07:05<NGC3982>ogfx-industries-0.3.4.zip <- that is what i downloaded.
07:05<NGC3982>and the contaigned grf file is what i thought i would use to edit (and make a new one with my alterations to it).
07:05<@planetmaker>yes, that's the binary, the finished product. Not source
07:06<NGC3982>ah, i see.
07:06<@planetmaker>look at the project page, go for repository
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07:06<@planetmaker>that tab gives you the source for online view and the URL to checkout the repo by means of mercurial
07:07<NGC3982>ok
07:07<@planetmaker>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains/nightlies/LATEST/log/ <-- that contains the (pre-processed) NML file for the last nightly
07:07<@planetmaker>that's not the real source but good enough to look and work with, if you can't be bothered to run the makefile
07:08<NGC3982>i have no idea how makefile works.
07:08<NGC3982>ill take a look at that. thank you.
07:09<NGC3982>ah, there we are.
07:09<@planetmaker>you don't need to understand how it works. But you need some command line knowledge and have make, awk and gcc at your disposal. And nml of course
07:10<NGC3982>when i look at the code now, i kind of see how it works.
07:10<NGC3982>where can i read about how i make the nml to a finnished loadable grf?
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07:12<@Yexo>http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial
07:13<@planetmaker>the nml tutorial and wiki http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Getting_started
07:13<NGC3982>thank you
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07:29<krinn>i wish add a new project in openttd coop, i see the add sub-project button, but in the creation page the subproject dropbox only show my AIs, i wish add this one to ai library and not attach to my AIs, how can i do that ?
07:31<@Yexo>you can't, since you're not a manager of the "ai libraries" project
07:31<@Yexo>if you make it a sub-project of one of your AIs I'll move it for you
07:32<krinn>ok yexo thanks, i'll do that now
07:35<krinn>Yexo, i don't remember i create the AI a long time ago, what i'm suppose to put as ident ? (a personnal thing, or something that speak by itself like a dictatorai for the AI DicatatorAI) ?
07:35<@Yexo>it'll show up in the url
07:35<Zuu>prefix with type of content
07:35<@Yexo>so best is "ai-<your ai name>"
07:35<Zuu>eg ai-dictator
07:35<Zuu>or in this case gslib-scp
07:36<@Yexo>or "ailib-..."
07:36<krinn>well, there's one in two Zuu, gslib-scp & ailib-scp
07:36<Zuu>or just lib, as it is for both
07:36<Zuu>scriptlib-scp
07:36<krinn>scriptlib-scp pickup
07:36<@Yexo>what does scp stand for?
07:37<krinn>Script communication protocol
07:37<krinn>a "clin d'oeil" to scp the ssh copy :)
07:37<krinn>Yexo -> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/scriptlib-scp and could add Zuu in it ?
07:38<Zuu>krinn: I think you could
07:38<@Yexo>probably, yes ;)
07:38<@Yexo>done now anyway
07:38<krinn>lol yes, just seen Yexo has done it
07:39<Zuu>anyway, Im off now to trying to find a spot in the park :-)
07:39<krinn>happy BBQ
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>have you guys thought about just running an admin-script that pipes between the chat and the script?
07:40<NGC3982>ill admit, i have the deepest respect for code, and people who does it with grace.
07:40<NGC3982>this is hard. really hard.
07:42<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, we won't disturb the chat, nor the chat would disturb us this way
07:47<krinn>Yexo: there's an automatic way to add a file to the "file" section without using the web interface?
07:48<@Yexo>no idea, try asking Ammler or search for the redmine documentation
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08:03<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/brickland/zoomin-test.png <- /me gniffels
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08:11<Eddi|zuHause>brickland, try 3.141
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08:12<Tycoony>hello
08:12<Tycoony>someone there?
08:13<@Yexo>hello Tycoony
08:13<TrueBrain>117 nicks in channel :P
08:13<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: why would I try pi?
08:13<Tycoony>there are an installer fpr openttd 3d?
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>because pi tastes good?
08:13<@Yexo>there is no openttd 3d
08:13<TrueBrain>and bricks dont?
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08:14<Tycoony>http://wiki.openttd.org/32bit_Graphics_Development
08:14<Tycoony>there is...
08:14<@Yexo>that's not about 3d at all
08:14<@Yexo>it's only about more colour depth (and more zoom levels)
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08:14<@Yexo>but you'll get both if you simply install openttd 1.2
08:15<Tycoony>thanks - you have a link?
08:16<@Yexo>openttd.org
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08:19<@Terkhen>TrueBrain: nice :)
08:23<TrueBrain>its old work, but I could finally get the zoom-in sprites loaded :D
08:23<@planetmaker>:-)
08:23<@Terkhen>:)
08:23-!-Tycoony [5f5b09d6@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
08:23<TrueBrain>and, only to shock any of you that know me: I MADE A GRF!
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>AAAH!
08:23*Eddi|zuHause covers in fear
08:23<TrueBrain>I know right
08:24<@Terkhen>nml?
08:24<TrueBrain>yup
08:24<@Terkhen>I never considered making GRFs at all until nml :P
08:24<TrueBrain>with the help of Yexo, planetmaker and Rubidium; I needed a bit of hand-holding there :P
08:24<@planetmaker>:-D
08:25<TrueBrain>Terkhen: I never considered mkaing a GRF. But I want to do 32bpp more, so it kinda won there :P
08:25<TrueBrain>admitatly, it is much better than my solution (pngcodec) :P
08:25<Alberth>I just knew you loved toyland :D
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08:26<TrueBrain>I am just a big kid :P
08:26<Alberth>aren't we all? ;)
08:27<@planetmaker>:-) I guess we are
08:27<TrueBrain>hehe
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08:28<TrueBrain>sadly, while cleaning a few weeks back, I removed a few master blender files ... *le sigh* ... guess I have to restart a bit :P
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08:42<NGC3982>as you may know by now, im new to all of the NewGRF making. i just installed nmlc and im now trying to convert my nml file to a grf.
08:42<NGC3982>im getting an error message wich i cant seem to google an answer to
08:42<NGC3982>http://pastebin.com/bM8kzD6Z
08:43<TrueBrain># Default language file "lang/english.lng" doesn't exist
08:43<TrueBrain>it literally tells you what is wrong
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08:43<TrueBrain>Guess you skipped: http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial/Language_files ;)
08:43<CornishPasty>*LITERALLY*
08:43<NGC3982>i have no idea in what context this language file exists. i cant seem to figure out if it has to do with linux or ttd.
08:44<NGC3982>TrueBrain: oh, indeed i did.
08:44<TrueBrain>:D
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08:46<NGC3982>my way of following the tutorial didnt really work, as you can see.
08:47<TrueBrain>I had the same issue like an hour ago :P
08:47<TrueBrain>had to go back as it was really required :P
08:47<TrueBrain>I guess people dont write tutorials for nothing
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08:52<NGC3982>well, i started using the tutorial and made the step by step
08:52<NGC3982>though, i should have read the full damn thing first
08:53<NGC3982>-the +it
08:55<TrueBrain>good thing, you only have to do it once :D
08:56<NGC3982>hopefully..
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09:13<NGC3982>hm
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09:13<NGC3982>i installed openttd on the linux machine i work on, and then copied the engling.lng to a new lang/ catalogue in the directory where i make the grfs.
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09:14<NGC3982>it tells me the file uses non-utf8 characters, wich i need to fix. any tip on how i convert files? or am i missunderstandning the process behind using the languge file?
09:16<NGC3982>ah, never mind, the forums told me its my editor.
09:17<TrueBrain>:D
09:17<TrueBrain>utf-8, I hate utf-8 :P
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>use utf-16 :p
09:18<TrueBrain>nah, utf-32
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>the bane of all "naive" string handling protocols :p
09:18<Rubidium>yeah, analog files have no encoding problems ;)
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>try sending utf-16 through IRC, for example :p
09:19<valhallasw>TrueBrain: ascii ought to be enough for anybody!
09:20<TrueBrain>yes!
09:20<TrueBrain>it has all I need :D
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>ähh :p
09:21<Rubidium>and because it has everything you need, you're using a method to encode smileys...
09:21<valhallasw>Eddi|zuHause: \"ahh!
09:21<Rubidium>☺
09:21<NGC3982>the file command tells me the english.lng file is binary
09:21<NGC3982>hm..
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>valhallasw: this is not latex :p
09:21-!-MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:22<valhallasw>Eddi|zuHause: ;-) have you ever seen how the utf-8 inputenc package works?
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>valhallasw: and that is sooooo annoying... i actually bothered to enable inputenc
09:23-!-mal2 [~mal2@z529a.pia.fu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>valhallasw: because you just type ahead... and then wonder why letters disappeared after compiling...
09:24<valhallasw>Eddi|zuHause: heh. Yeah. Or you get some nice errors because you thought you could use µ - inputenc is set to something that supports greek, after all
09:25<valhallasw>(inputenc=utf-8 does search-and-replace \xc3\xa4 (=ä) to \"a ...
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09:28<Eddi|zuHause>i might have used latin1 back then, not sure
09:29<NGC3982>bah, im not getting anywhere..
09:29<NGC3982>iconv didnt like trying to convert from binary to utf-8.
09:29<TrueBrain>is your .lng just a text file?
09:29<TrueBrain>(it should be)
09:30<NGC3982>yes, it is. though, file -bi tells me its in a binary charset, and it contaigns the text and a lot of odd chars..
09:30<TrueBrain>start a new file in a real text editor :P
09:31<TrueBrain>I rly dont know, just babbling here :)
09:31<NGC3982>i guess i can try and open the file in a different manor.
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: which editor did you use to create it?
09:33<Rubidium>you must be rich if you have multiple manors ;)
09:34<NGC3982>i didnt create it, i downloaded openttd (1.2.0-linux-generic-i686) and copied the file from the lang folder to my own corresponding.
09:34<NGC3982>Rubidium: :(
09:34<TrueBrain>NGC3982: you copied the english.lng from OpenTTD release?
09:35<NGC3982>yes
09:35<TrueBrain>that is wrong
09:35*Rubidium assumed you were translating something for/with NML
09:35<TrueBrain>it is also kinda confusing, but .lng from OpenTTD are compiled language files
09:35<TrueBrain>.lng of NML are PLAIN TEXT files
09:35<NGC3982>oh, ok.
09:35<TrueBrain>http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial/Language_files#Example_language_file
09:36<TrueBrain>that is what has to go in your english.lng
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09:36<TrueBrain>OpenTTD has nothing to do with grfs ;)
09:36<TrueBrain>(except it loads them)
09:36<NGC3982>but
09:36<TrueBrain>.lng in this case is a bad choice if you know OpenTTD :P
09:36<NGC3982>that is just an example
09:36<TrueBrain>it is; so extend / change how you feel like
09:36<TrueBrain>the page explains how the format works
09:37<TrueBrain>remember you only needs to have those strings that your grf uses
09:37<TrueBrain>nothing else
09:37<TrueBrain>OpenTTD remains untouched, except that you load your resulting grf file
09:37<NGC3982>what im trying to achieve here is making a grf from the nml file i have. the nml file is the ogfx-trains.nml. if i just want to try it out, cant i use a complete language file?
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09:37<TrueBrain>there is no such thing as a "complete language file"
09:38<TrueBrain>each nml has its own language file, which defines the strings for that nml
09:38<TrueBrain>nothing more, nothing less
09:38<NGC3982>ah
09:38<NGC3982>so, the corresponding language file would be found somewhere near the nml file.
09:38*NGC3982 backlogs where he downloaded it.
09:38<TrueBrain>in the lang/english.lng near it, yes :P
09:39<NGC3982>i mean the url where i got that nml file.
09:39<NGC3982>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains/nightlies/LATEST/log/'
09:39<NGC3982>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains/nightlies/LATEST/log/ *
09:40<NGC3982>ok, im confused.
09:41<TrueBrain>that indeed is lacking the language file :)
09:41<TrueBrain>bug planetmaker I guess ;)
09:42<NGC3982>not until im sure its just not me not understanding.
09:42<@planetmaker>yeah, it's not there. For whatever reason. Should be, though
09:43<NGC3982>well, heck with it then. do you have any other example nml file (with a corresponding language file) i can try this with?
09:43<NGC3982>since that seems to be the last step for me to complete the making-a-grf-and-irritating-a-complete-irc-channel quest.
09:44<TrueBrain>if you dont, I do, so no worries :P
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09:45<@Belugas>hello
09:48<NGC3982>oh, the bundles site had a lot of them
09:48<NGC3982>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-industries/nightlies/LATEST/log/
09:48<NGC3982>i guess that is what im looking for.
09:50<NGC3982>although.. no english language file.
09:50*NGC3982 continues.
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09:55<TrueBrain>isn't there a hg repos or something which has the language file?
09:55*TrueBrain looks at planetmaker?
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09:57<Alberth>NGC3982: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-industries/repository/show/lang
09:57<TrueBrain>\o/
09:58<NGC3982>Alberth: ah, there we are.
09:58<NGC3982>actually, planetmaker told me this before, although i didnt understand the connection.
09:58<NGC3982>now i do! :o
10:00<TrueBrain>a learning-curve
10:00<NGC3982>although, this gave me a whole bunch of new errors.
10:01<TrueBrain>I guess that is progress? :D
10:03<NGC3982>and, that language file does not look like the example file, for instance.
10:03<TrueBrain>in what way doesnt it?
10:03<NGC3982>it seems to be using lots of html
10:03<TrueBrain>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-industries/repository/entry/lang/english.lng
10:03<TrueBrain>I dont see HTML anywhere?
10:03<NGC3982>oh
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10:03<NGC3982>haha
10:03<TrueBrain>you were wgetting the URL Alberth gave, werent you?
10:04<NGC3982>thats lame. ny browser downloaded the actual site contaigning the engling.lng file
10:04<TrueBrain>hehe
10:04<TrueBrain>well, that wont work :P
10:04<NGC3982>yes, but i guess i did something horrible when downloading it.
10:05<NGC3982>there we are, thank you :)
10:05<NGC3982>"undefined command: VERSION"
10:05*NGC3982 looks into it.
10:08<NGC3982>oh, of course.
10:08<TrueBrain>it seems to be part of the make-bundle they use (guessing here, first time looking in that code)
10:08<NGC3982>i have to set the version.
10:08<NGC3982>yes, i just noticed that "VERSION" is something, and not just a word.
10:09<TrueBrain>there is some mention about custom_tags.txt, no clue what that is :P
10:09<@Terkhen>yes, the makefile framework replaces {VERSION}, IIRC for the current hg revision
10:09*NGC3982 is yet to learn makefile
10:10<TrueBrain>I would just add: VERSION :<string>
10:10<TrueBrain>to english.lng :P
10:10<TrueBrain>but that might not be the right way :D
10:10<TrueBrain>TITLE and FILENAME you ened too most likely :)
10:13<NGC3982>i feel a bit stuck, since the tutorial doesnt seem to take the makefile thingy into concideration.
10:13*NGC3982 continues to explore.
10:13<TrueBrain>the tutorial has little to do with it :)
10:14<TrueBrain>the openttdcoop projects mostly use a framework, as far as I understand
10:14<TrueBrain>which they build, apart from NML
10:14<TrueBrain>which takes care of a few things
10:14<TrueBrain>like, obviously, VERSION ;)
10:14<@Terkhen>yes, the makefile framework is independent from NML
10:14<TrueBrain>NML itself doesnt need it
10:14<@Terkhen>the makefile "just" takes all of your pnml files, puts them all in a single file, and gives that file to NML
10:15<Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/dutch.log <-- top-part is current devzone check_language script, bottom part is my attempt.
10:15<TrueBrain>runs GCC preprocessor over it, and more of those additional tasks :)
10:19<NGC3982>hm, ok.
10:19<NGC3982>if i wish to use this language file
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: making a completely new GRF based on the nml tutorial and compiling an existing GRF are two entirely different things
10:20<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: so, i guess the better thing to do is to skip what im doing and strictly make a tutorial grf?
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: if you compile an existing grf, you better check out the full source
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: yes. you should first follow the tutorial by the letter
10:25<TrueBrain>depends on your end-goal ofc :)
10:25<TrueBrain>but otherwise, checkout that hg repos, and run 'make' ;)
10:26<NGC3982>i just deleted everything i did this morning
10:26<NGC3982>ill stick to the tutorial
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11:50*andythenorth ponders releasing FIRS 0.7.5
11:52<V453000>^^ I will do some testing when I have all cargoes drawn andy :p
11:52<andythenorth>maybe I should play a test game
11:52<andythenorth>imo, the change to randomise initial production is a BIG win
11:53<andythenorth>V453000: I don't know if you saw, I took your comments about farms into account
11:53<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3950
11:53<V453000>noticed an email but didnt investigate further
11:53<V453000>oh, nice
11:54<V453000>what is teh pax production now?
11:54<V453000>max*
11:54<andythenorth>1 min
11:55<andythenorth>V453000: for most farms, max is around 256t
11:56<andythenorth>starting production varies 16t-40t
11:56<V453000>hm
11:56<V453000>256 for each cargo?
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11:56<andythenorth>yup
11:57<V453000>I dont know that still feels so low, connecting a mine with 2k cap is probably still so much more efficient
11:57<andythenorth>the mines don't have 2k ;)
11:57<V453000>what is max for other industries then?
11:57<andythenorth>I increased it yesterday, let's see
11:57<andythenorth>mines were 896t, now they're 1728t
11:57<andythenorth>oil wells *do* have 2k
11:57<V453000>hm
11:58<V453000>yeah but that is my point. Connecting farms always requires a lot of things to be done. Not only that there are many farms in the cluster, but also that you need to produce FMSP somehow
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11:58<V453000>their production cap should imo be a lot higher than anything else
11:59<andythenorth>I'd rather fix the FMSP issue somehow
11:59<andythenorth>rewarding players for delivering FMSP is not a bad idea
11:59<V453000>or just reduce the max production of mines
11:59<andythenorth>but delivering FMSP is not exciting :P
11:59<andythenorth>every farm needs so many stations :P
11:59<V453000>sort of
11:59<Rhamphoryncus>I think farm clusters should be less dense
12:00<V453000>there are various ways how to do it, but still
12:00<V453000>nah i think the density is nice to have for the change
12:00<Rhamphoryncus>V453000: I had a game with 14 farms in one cluster
12:00<V453000>but the difference needs to be adressed also from the general point of view if it doesnt hinder farms too much and eventually hinder other industries if it does
12:00<andythenorth>Rhamphoryncus: that's excessive :)
12:00<andythenorth>v - I don't mind normalising the production a bit more
12:01<andythenorth>farms ~500t, other industries 1k
12:01<andythenorth>it's possible
12:01<andythenorth>but I'm not making farms excessive
12:01<V453000>I think that would make a lot of sense
12:01<Rhamphoryncus>I've pushed against it so much that the last several games I haven't even bothered to service more than 1 or 2 of the same industry
12:01<andythenorth>I'll play a test game I think, I haven't played the game for a long time
12:02<V453000>I have majority of wagons drawn already, so my test game is close too :p
12:02<V453000>want to have every cargo look different
12:02<Rhamphoryncus>V453000: ahh, you are adding more wagon types to NUTS?
12:02<V453000>no, just a new generation
12:02<Rhamphoryncus>oh
12:02<V453000>and fixing/upgrading/filling in some other generations
12:03<andythenorth>hmm
12:03<andythenorth>the issue I want to solve is FMSP
12:03<V453000>what exactly is the issue with that?
12:03<andythenorth>boring to connect up so many 1-tile truck dropoffs
12:04<andythenorth>I've considered 'farm cluster is one giant industry' and it was rejected
12:04<V453000>I dont think that is a problem, I actually like it that you can think of many different ways how to distribute the supplies
12:04<andythenorth>maybe there should be a free source of FMSP
12:04<andythenorth>that;s what pikka is doing in tai
12:05<V453000>the real problem is that farms are always dependent on other cargoes, yet they have no advantage atm
12:05<Alberth>andythenorth: what do you think of my language log: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/f.html
12:05<V453000>always unless you ahve the biorefinery..
12:05<Rhamphoryncus>Make the minimum spread (across all 4 types of farm) a bit larger, apply my stockpile patch
12:05<Rhamphoryncus>Fertilizer plants, located near farms?
12:06<V453000>free source of supplies ... I think that goes against the logic of supplies as something you have to produce to get your industries growing
12:06<andythenorth>V453000: I'd consider it though
12:06<andythenorth>http://www.tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/industries?economy=everything#guano_mine
12:07<Rhamphoryncus>Well ideally the livestock farms would also produce poo which you take to the fertilizer plant ;)
12:07<andythenorth>^^ old idea, never implemented
12:07<V453000>interesting
12:07<andythenorth>Alberth: looks good, how do we mark strings as 'untranslateable' ?
12:07<andythenorth>e.g dates, nml substrings etc
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12:07<V453000>if the Guano mine would have just low production, I think that would not be a bad idea
12:08<Alberth>andythenorth: you need to fix nml for that :p
12:08<andythenorth>guano would also expire at a certain date
12:08<Rhamphoryncus>Fixed production, like fisheries? Which encourages an eventual changeover to scalable options
12:08<V453000>on the other hand, it would make it reasonable to build a direct connection between guano mine and the farms ... I would put an industry between those - Guano mine - FMSP producer - farms
12:09-!-guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
12:10<andythenorth>Alberth: do it renum style: @@translation_off, @@translation_on
12:11<andythenorth>V453000: guano processor?
12:11<andythenorth>but the point is to get FMSP for free?
12:11<andythenorth>imo
12:11<Eddi|zuHause><Rhamphoryncus> Well ideally the livestock farms would also produce poo which you take to the fertilizer plant ;) <-- that would very well be an idea for the agriculture economy
12:12<Rhamphoryncus>Eddi|zuHause: but would require a 3rd output for industries
12:12<andythenorth>patch for more output cargos!
12:12<Rhamphoryncus>andythenorth: I already suggested that and you shot it down
12:13*andythenorth tries to remember if tiles can produce
12:13<andythenorth>teach NoGo to build co-located industries?
12:14<V453000>well yeah but the guano would not be useful for anything else
12:15<V453000>atm all the main thigns like oil, coal, iron ore etc are greatly useful for other things
12:15<V453000>FMSP is just a side effect
12:15<V453000>maybe some of the goods-only cargoes like stone or sand (iirc) could make FMSP
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12:16<andythenorth>stone makes FMSP at the lime kiln
12:16<andythenorth>or does it make chemicals?
12:17<andythenorth>no FMSP directly
12:17<andythenorth>and chemicals
12:17<V453000>hm
12:17<V453000>that is not so bad then
12:17<V453000>but ... no ES from that
12:17<andythenorth>"no, it makes FMSP directly" would have made more sense above :P
12:17<V453000>in compare to for example oil - oil is able to exist on itself
12:17-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
12:17<NGC3982>wiki pages that describes brackets as "curly" are good wiki pages.
12:17-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.23.92.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:18<V453000>plus it makes FMSP or anything you want
12:18<V453000>stone -> fmsp cant grow as it doesnt have ES
12:18<V453000>I know it isnt just about single chain as everything should be nicely linked in FIRS, but if you start with oil network, you do not have any real reason to focus on other industries and you can just grow your oil wells to the 2k
12:19<andythenorth>V453000: and therein lies a moral tale about our civilisation ;)
12:19<V453000>if oil wells would have a limit of 500 and farms of 500-in-clusters, then you would have a damn good reason to bother with farms
12:20<andythenorth>I won't equalise them, but I'll push them closer together in the range
12:20<andythenorth>I'll do that later today ;)
12:20<V453000>:p
12:21<V453000>not necessarily equal, but you get the point :¨)
12:21<andythenorth>cluster of 4 farms at 2x400t ea. is ... quite a lot of output
12:21<V453000>sure, which it should be as you put a lot of effort in connecting them, and produce supplies for them from another source
12:22<andythenorth>other industries can cap out around 1600t per cargo
12:22<andythenorth>I'm not 100% convinced that farms shouldn't be one big industry
12:22<andythenorth>but meh, we had that debate at least twice
12:22<V453000>nah, that would make it stupid, they would just become the same thing
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12:22<V453000>now they are something different, nice variety
12:23<V453000>I think if this "balance" between farms and other industries is improved, it will be a lot better
12:23<andythenorth>if stations would round-robin delivered cargo, the FMSP delivery would be much easier ;)
12:24<supermop>too easy
12:24<andythenorth>only if you station walk a lot :P
12:24<V453000>thats the point, nothing would be different from other industries
12:24<V453000>what would be the interesting thing then
12:25<andythenorth>brb
12:26<NGC3982>is the correct word for {} braces, or brackets?
12:27<V453000>brackets
12:28<Mazur>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracket
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12:48<supermop>so is there a good railtype tutorial anywhere?
12:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r24188 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: (log message trimmed)
12:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix-ish [FS#5151] (r1): when changing the basics of a window (fullscreen,
12:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: 8bpp/32bpp), and a window already exists, it was forced out of maximize mode,
12:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: and its resolution/position was reset, often causing unwanted side-effects. As a
12:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: "bonus", a WC_SIZE was triggered, and if the system was going from 8bpp to 32pp,
12:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: this caused a forced window update in a limbo-state of the blitter (not fully
12:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: 32bpp just yet, but for sure no longer 8bpp); this could cause random memory
12:49<supermop>also,
12:49<supermop>how do I include 4x sprites?
12:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r24189 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Fix: when going to fullscreen and back, restore to the resolution you were, not to the fullscreen resolution (Windows only)
12:50<TrueBrain>awh, CIA-1 doesnt show my epostol in its full :'(
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12:52<andythenorth>V453000: how do you feel about FMSP having 2x current effect?
12:52<andythenorth>i.e. production ramps faster
12:52<V453000>does not fit too well for me
12:53<andythenorth>still have to build the truck routes :P
12:53<V453000>from my ideal point of view, farms would be something for the bright future
12:53<V453000>so it would take a lot of time and effort to get to some amazing stage of huge production
12:53<andythenorth>2x doesn't work well if there are free FMSP on the map either
12:53<V453000>true
12:54<V453000>nah, I dont think too quick growth is good
12:54<V453000>in general
12:55<andythenorth>I think I'll reject that idea
12:55<andythenorth>the free FMSP is the next thing to explore
12:56-!-Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:56<andythenorth>tbh, it was an anti-goal to have very high farm production
12:57<andythenorth>I made it low because I find it silly to have 50 trucks waiting at a farm with high production
12:57<supermop>andythenorth: I just started a small 128x128 game in 1880 and am having fun with heqs for street running railways along the harbour
12:57<V453000>well you dont have to do it with trucks? :D
12:57<andythenorth>no, and I don't mind testing alternatives
12:57<andythenorth>how much milk do you really need though?
12:57<supermop>I would prefer many, smaller farms
12:58<andythenorth>maybe the arable farm and mixed farm should gain more than the others
12:58<V453000>the farms which make FMSP through biorefinery should gain less
12:58<V453000>not sure which are those
12:59<andythenorth>arable farm primarily
12:59<supermop>or, farms as they are now as industries, but also a FIRS-like houses that provide 'farmsteads' at the exrems edge of town, 2x2 houses that produce farm products
13:00<supermop>can a house prefer to locate in fields?
13:01<andythenorth>not sure
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13:03<NataS>homorning
13:03<NataS>oh no!
13:03<NataS>I'm Homorning
13:03<NataS>:C
13:03*NataS bleeds all over the place
13:04<andythenorth>well don't make a mess
13:04*NGC3982 just made his first grf work.
13:05<@Terkhen>:)
13:06<NataS>YAY!
13:10<andythenorth>so arable farm produces grain and sugar beet
13:10<andythenorth>always in same ratio
13:10-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:10<andythenorth>currently 1t:1t
13:10<andythenorth>should I make it produce more of one or something?
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13:11<+michi_cc>andythenorth: Make it random? Some soil is better for grain, some for sugar beet.
13:11<andythenorth>requires recoding :P
13:11<andythenorth>but I might
13:11-!-FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
13:12<andythenorth>I have to write my own production code for tht
13:14<supermop>random is good
13:14<+michi_cc>Can't you solve that via the initial production multiplier?
13:14-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
13:15<andythenorth>no
13:15<andythenorth>we took it out of scope for cb 15F ;P :)
13:17<andythenorth>I'd need to fake the standard production method via the production cb
13:17<andythenorth>achievable, but means writing new code
13:21<NGC3982>hm
13:22<NGC3982>the newgrf folder is the ..preferable folder for newgrf files?
13:24<NGC3982>what on earth did i just do. the grf name was scanned (/openttd/content_download) and loaded. i then changed it a bit (to the tutorial version of the NML Example NewGRF).
13:24<NGC3982>now, i cant find it in the list.
13:24<NGC3982>:(
13:24<andythenorth>rescanned newgrfs?
13:25<andythenorth>if that fails, restarted openttd?
13:25<NGC3982>yes, several times
13:25<NGC3982>copied the files to multiple locations (/newgrf, /content_download, /content_download/data)
13:25<NGC3982>and restarted, a few times.
13:25<NGC3982>ill try and rename it.
13:26<Rubidium>don't duplicate GRFs, that'll only make a mess of things
13:26<Rubidium>furthermore, don't manually put stuff in content_download
13:26<NGC3982>i see.
13:27<NGC3982>ill delete all of it, rename it (that is, remake the grf from the nml file with a new name), clean the openttd directory and retry.
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13:29<NGC3982>hm, the same effect
13:29<NGC3982>i put the file in /openttd/newgrf.
13:29<NGC3982>the wiki told me to put it in the data directory, wich only exists in the content_download.
13:29<Rubidium>there might a bug in the GRF; then openttd -d grf=1 might show something
13:30<Rubidium>NGC3982: the wiki is always outdated
13:30<NGC3982>i noticed :)
13:30<NGC3982>where do i use that command?
13:30<Rubidium>from the command line of your operating system
13:30<NGC3982>ah
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13:35<Wolf01>evening
13:36<NGC3982>Rubidium: i cant seem to find any reference to it being found.
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13:36<NGC3982>this is odd. i fail to find any reference to it existing at all
13:36<NGC3982>ill try it locally on linux
13:37<Rubidium>then increase the number (will spew more info; goes up to 9)
13:38<NGC3982>ah
13:40<NGC3982>here we go
13:41<NGC3982>"StaticGRFinfo: 'MINV' defined before 'VRSN' or 'VRSN' set to 0, ignoring this field"
13:43<NGC3982>google tells me MINV and VRSN has to do with the version of the game
13:44<NGC3982>i guess..
13:44<NGC3982>im using 1.2.0-RC2
13:45<Rubidium>it's the version of the NewGRF
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r24190 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt traditional_chinese.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 90 changes by Luper
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 11 changes by Paragulis
13:45<+michi_cc>NGC3982: a) That's just a warning and shouldn't have an effect on the grf list. b) Why are you using a version that is known to be faulty?
13:45-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:46<NGC3982>i actually have no idea. i didnt really think about updating the game to the latest version while messing with the grfs. :)
13:46*NGC3982 updates.
13:49<NGC3982>im actually a bit clueless on why it doesnt work.
13:49*NGC3982 remakes.
13:52<andythenorth>hmm
13:52<andythenorth>so how do I fake game's production mechanic?
13:52<andythenorth>I need to get prod_level
13:53<andythenorth>0x93 ?
13:54<andythenorth>and then I need to fake production multipliers in some storage
13:54<andythenorth>and I need a random switch
13:54<andythenorth>and I need to make this a CPP macro :o
13:55*andythenorth has been trying to get on better terms with CPP macros
13:55<andythenorth>repeating "it's just like a broken function" seems to help :P
13:56<NGC3982>something is definetly broken
13:56<NGC3982>since my old grf file no longer has any effect and gives the same error as stated above
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14:01<andythenorth>Rhamphoryncus: fancy patching FIRS primary production?
14:04*andythenorth wishes there was an easy way to tell which storage was in use at an industry
14:04<andythenorth>there is not :(
14:04-!-goodger [~ben@94-30-43-248.xdsl.murphx.net] has quit []
14:09<oskari89>@seen DanMacK
14:09<@DorpsGek>oskari89: DanMacK was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 3 days, 1 hour, 26 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <DanMacK> WB Andy
14:10<andythenorth>pm him
14:10<andythenorth>on the forums
14:11<andythenorth>he pm-ed me sat 21st
14:11*andythenorth wtfs at how to find which permanent storage is in use
14:11<andythenorth>probably write an industry window text over-ride that displays all registers
14:12<andythenorth>it's strange that the newgrf debug window shows it for some industries, but not others
14:12<NGC3982>it works!
14:12<NGC3982>\o/
14:12<andythenorth>maybe if storage is unused, it's not shown at all
14:13<andythenorth>evidence seems that way
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14:23*andythenorth wishes at least one of his partners-in-crime wasn't busy with RL :P
14:23<andythenorth>pair coding is more fun
14:23<andythenorth>even with the arguments :P
14:23<SpComb>quite
14:24<supermop>teach your kid to code?
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14:54*andythenorth wants an industry to plant a row of houses, that then die on next tick
14:54<andythenorth>this would provide a buffer :P
14:56*andythenorth devises prize for the most baroque solution to prevent industries touching
14:56<@Terkhen>minimum distance callback?
14:57<andythenorth>that's not baroque :)
14:58<andythenorth>you need to invent some scheme like planting objects, or signs
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15:04*andythenorth is bamboozled
15:07<andythenorth>running the location check in the nml graphics branch seems odd
15:07<andythenorth>how does that work?
15:08<andythenorth>it's a default industry tile being redefined
15:08<andythenorth>usually tile_check would be needed to handle that cb
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15:18<frosch123>you can't
15:19<frosch123>you cannot add callback to default industry tiles
15:19<frosch123>you have to replicate the whole tile for that
15:23<NGC3982>is there any text editor in linux that shows the number of lines?
15:24<frosch123>haha, i think you rather want to ask how to enable it for your editor :p
15:24<Rubidium>is the number of lines really interesting?
15:25<frosch123>what are you using currently?
15:25<Rubidium>I usually don't care whether a file has 100 or 105 lines
15:25<NGC3982>Rubidium: yes, im getting an error on line 76, and i cant find line 76.
15:25<NGC3982>:D
15:25<frosch123>then try ctrl+g or ctrl+l
15:25<Rubidium>or, so you want it to show the line numbers
15:25<frosch123>(most common hotkeys for that)
15:28<NGC3982>hm
15:28<NGC3982>im using nano
15:28<NGC3982>ctrl+g gave me the help
15:28<frosch123>ah, so a console editor
15:28<NGC3982>but i cant manage to get to a specific line number.
15:29<Rubidium>ctrl+c shows the current position then
15:29<andythenorth>frosch123: it appears to work :P
15:29<frosch123>ctrl+_
15:29<andythenorth>but testing is hard
15:29-!-th_gergo [~thiering@1F2E8CA3.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:30<andythenorth>maybe it doesn't work, but I haven't seen it fail yet :P
15:40<NGC3982>http://pastebin.com/vH7s3aVH <- take a look at line 69. when making the grf from the nml, it tells me that the } on row 69 was unexpected.
15:40<NGC3982>and i cant figure out what im doing wrong.
15:42<Rubidium>missing semicolon on 67?
15:42<NGC3982>ah!
15:42<NGC3982>yes!
15:42<NGC3982>thanks <3.
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15:45<NGC3982>there we are, lots of manual errors in the file
15:45<NGC3982>but it seems to be fixed.
15:48<Alberth>you also have automatic errors?
15:49<andythenorth>he
15:49<andythenorth>the unexpected } catches me sometimes ;)
15:49<andythenorth>I could patch the error I guess to be more helpful
15:49<andythenorth>but overly-helpful errors can sometimes be wrong and misleading
15:50<NGC3982>hehe
15:51<NGC3982>the thing is, i started looking for missing or added {}
15:51<NGC3982>not looking at the missing ; at all.
15:51<NGC3982>although, i fixed it, and the grf works \o/
15:51*NGC3982 is a bit proud.
15:52<NGC3982>btw, where do i put the grfs in openttd-1.2.0-linux-generic-i686?
15:53<NGC3982>since i didnt install anything, i guess the grfs go somewhere in the extracted catalogue..
15:54<Alberth>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/readme.txt#L252
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15:55<NGC3982>with that, i guess ~/.openttd is created upon opening the game?
15:55<NGC3982>yes, it did.
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15:55<NGC3982>neat, thanks :)
16:04-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1177643171.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd
16:04<drac_boy>hi
16:06<NGC3982>yet again, i have stumbled upon trouble
16:07<drac_boy>heh what?
16:07<NGC3982>http://pastebin.com/vH7s3aVH <- this code is the tutorial bus grf (except corrected with some {};, wich the uploaded text isnt). i get everything to work except loading. it doesnt load passengers at all, but stand still at 0%.
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16:07<NGC3982>i fail to see what im doing wrong.
16:07<NGC3982>am i missing a property?
16:08<drac_boy>hm dunno sorry, wait for someone else? :)
16:09<NGC3982>drac_boy: ;)
16:09<NGC3982>drac_boy: ive been up the buts of the people in here all day.
16:10<drac_boy>up the buts?
16:10<andythenorth>@calc 1000*442
16:10<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 442000
16:11<andythenorth>@calc 1000+442
16:11<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 1442
16:11<andythenorth>@calc 442000 / 1442
16:11<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 306.518723994
16:11<andythenorth>hmm
16:11<NGC3982>drac_boy: im making my first grf, and it hasnt gone smoothly.
16:13<drac_boy>sorry I can't help you much with that NGC3982
16:15<NGC3982>:D
16:21<drac_boy>NGC3982 I do have a large tracking table and some sprites tho ... could use a coder? :P
16:21<drac_boy>heh heh
16:21<NGC3982>you wouldnt want me close to your code.
16:21<NGC3982>:D
16:22<Rhamphoryncus>andythenorth: I don't suppose you can shrink the radius at which openttd creates farming fields?
16:22<andythenorth>nope
16:22<andythenorth>you could patch the game ;)
16:22<andythenorth>you could implement frosch123's suggestions here http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1375/
16:22<andythenorth>wrt objects
16:23<NGC3982>what property regulates how good/passengers are loaded on a vehicle?
16:23<drac_boy>NGC3982 I wasn't asking you you silly thing :P
16:23<drac_boy>heh heh
16:23<Rhamphoryncus>Oi, that was a good chunk of backscroll to catch up on
16:24<NGC3982>oh wait
16:24<NGC3982>default_cargo_first_refittable isnt featured in the tutorial
16:24<NGC3982>i think i might need it to make it load at all
16:24<Rhamphoryncus>andythenorth: I do wonder how annoying the farm clusters would be with my 6 month stockpile
16:25<andythenorth>more or less?
16:25<Rhamphoryncus>less, possibly by a lot
16:26<Rhamphoryncus>hrm. Can conditional acceptance stop partway through unloading? Force it to only accept 5 crates?
16:27<Rhamphoryncus>If so you could have one truck load up, then hit several farms until empty
16:29<andythenorth>Terkhen: are you translating FIRS currently?
16:29<@Terkhen>right now? no
16:30<@Terkhen>I translated everything yesterday
16:30<@Terkhen>if it does not include any new strings, the spanish translation is complete right now
16:30<andythenorth>great
16:30<andythenorth>might release FIRS 0.7.5 soon
16:31*NGC3982 doesnt get the crap to work.
16:31<Rienzilla>hmm
16:31<Rienzilla>can I prevent openttd from adding implicit destinations?
16:31<andythenorth>don't bother
16:31<andythenorth>it does no harm
16:32<Rienzilla>well i have trains with a gazillion implicit destinations which have been added when I rerouted some tracks
16:33<Rhamphoryncus>Rienzilla: use non-stop orders, always
16:33<Rhamphoryncus>there's a config option to make them the default
16:33<Rienzilla>what;s that?
16:34<drac_boy>Rhamphoryncus why break something that used to work tho?
16:34<drac_boy>:)
16:34<Rhamphoryncus>drac_boy: huh?
16:34<Rhamphoryncus>Rienzilla: look in the orders window, one of the drop downs has an option for non-stop
16:34<drac_boy>why non-stop if theres nothing to stop at basically that is
16:35<Rienzilla>but will it then stop adding te implicit stops?
16:35<Rhamphoryncus>non-non-stop means stop randomly anywhere you happen to trip over, which happens quite often
16:36<Rhamphoryncus>Rienzilla: yes. It only reports implicit stops because the vehicle actually did stop there. They don't affect behaviour, they just report that it happened
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16:37<Rienzilla>oh ok
16:37<Rienzilla>thanks
16:37<Rienzilla>one more thing
16:37<Rienzilla>if I want to change/copy orders for a gazillion of trains, what's the fastest way?
16:38<Rhamphoryncus>make them shared orders in the first place
16:38<Rienzilla>I'm now opening them, deleting all the orders, and then click go to on a template train
16:38<Rhamphoryncus>ctrl-click your template
16:38<Rhamphoryncus>you can also hold down ctrl when cloning in the first place
16:38<Rienzilla>emm
16:38<Rienzilla>ctrl-click the orders window? or the train itself?
16:38<Chris_Booth>pressing 2 buttons at once?
16:38<Chris_Booth>are you mad!
16:39<Rhamphoryncus>select "go to", then ctrl-click the template train
16:39<Chris_Booth>you my hurt yourself if you use 2 buttons at the same time
16:39<Rienzilla>ahh
16:39<Chris_Booth>be carefyl
16:39<Rienzilla>I do that once for all trains and then when I change the orders of the template train the rest follows auto?
16:39*drac_boy thinks Chris_Booth is a bit too crazy now
16:39<drac_boy>:)
16:39<Rhamphoryncus>Chris_Booth: .. my mouse has 14. What happens if I press them all at once?
16:39<Chris_Booth>lol
16:39<Rhamphoryncus>Rienzilla: yup
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16:40<Chris_Booth>Rhamphoryncus: you will break the mouse
16:40<drac_boy>Chris_Booth did you forgot about needijng three at once with ctrl+alt+del? :p
16:40<Chris_Booth>oh no not windows XP and CTRL ALT Del!
16:40<Chris_Booth>I needed a 3rd are for that
16:40<Chris_Booth>in fact I used my nose to press the delete key
16:41<Chris_Booth>XD
16:41<drac_boy>Chris_Booth are you telling me you have no hands?
16:41<Rhamphoryncus>Just don't ask what he does if he needs a 4th button
16:41<Chris_Booth>what are these hands you talk about?
16:41<CornishPasty>I can ctrl+alt+del with 1 hand...
16:42<Chris_Booth>CornishPasty: you must have giant hands or a tiny keyboard
16:42<CornishPasty>Chris_Booth: I just use the right hand ctrl and alt
16:42<Rhamphoryncus>Chris_Booth: alt+ctrl on the right side, not the left?
16:43<Chris_Booth>I didn't even know that worked!
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16:44<Rhamphoryncus>Go ahead and try it. Hit it a few times if it doesn't work at first. I'll wait.
16:44<Chris_Booth>lol
16:45<drac_boy>how about hitting alt+F4 instead?
16:45<drac_boy>crude joke I know :)
16:45<Chris_Booth>I don't have a windows computer near me to try it with Rhamphoryncus
16:45<andythenorth>good bye
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16:45<Chris_Booth>bb Andy
16:46<Rhamphoryncus>Linux or mac?
16:46<Chris_Booth>Mac
16:47<Rhamphoryncus>ah. No idea about the mac equivalent
16:47<Chris_Booth>well kinda Mac, iOS
16:47*NGC3982 still cant get it to work :(
16:47<CornishPasty>cmd+opt+esc
16:47<CornishPasty>Can be done with one hand :P
16:48<Chris_Booth>middle and power can be pressed with one hand
16:48<Chris_Booth>to reset the iPhone
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16:52<NGC3982>for god sake.
16:52<NGC3982>im not finding any property or function that supports what im doing
16:52<NGC3982>im going for a close call.
16:53<NGC3982>planetmaker: since i notice you were a part of the tutorial, i think i need your help on this one.
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16:56<NGC3982>planetmaker: im making the flatbed truck as of the tutorial. the problem im getting is that the truck doesnt load passengers at bus stations (even though its set as the tutorial states).
16:56<NGC3982>i have tried simply pasting the stuff into a new nml file, making a grf and trying it again.
17:05-!-jahina [jahina@cha74-2-88-160-191-163.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
17:07<jahina>hi,
17:07<jahina>can someone help me install an app please ?
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17:13<NGC3982>planetmaker: never mind this (yet again) useless hilight. i solved it.
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17:31<@planetmaker>I never noticed that I'm part of any tutorial...
17:32-!-Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-230-134.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
17:32<supermop>Apparently so; just highlighting your name helps people solve problems!
17:37<@Terkhen>good night
17:38<frosch123>night
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17:52<NGC3982>planetmaker: according to the tutorial, you (and some other people) made the examples.
17:52<@planetmaker>still doesn't make me part of the tutorial ;-)
17:53<NGC3982>:(
17:53<@planetmaker>sorry, it's playing words :-)
17:53<drac_boy>:p
17:53<@planetmaker>of course, I made part of the tutorial. But I am not part of it ;-)
17:53<NGC3982>i feel like a five year old when i experiment with the engine png's.
17:56<Mazur>While in actuality you all of 5½ years old already!
17:56<Mazur>You're a big boy, now!
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>probably more like 5 billion years :p
17:57<NGC3982>;)
17:59<Rienzilla>hmm
17:59<Rienzilla>is it also possible to mass-change the amount/type of vehicles for all trains in a group?
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18:02<Eddi|zuHause>type yes, amount no
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18:12<Rienzilla>and ehm, a way to get a list of all trains that have a certain station in their order list?
18:12-!-krinn [~krinn@80.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: night]
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>yes. in the station window, there are little train/ship/plane/etc. buttons
18:18<Rienzilla>ah, awesome
18:22-!-magosi [~mathew@CPE602ad087577e-CM602ad087577b.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd
18:41<drac_boy>btw any of you know a bit about linux distros? if not thats ok
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19:03<Wolf01>'night
19:03-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
19:11<V453000>not.
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19:14<drac_boy>V453000 no need to be obvious :p
19:14<V453000>actually I was not obvious at all
19:15<V453000>about 90% of the people in this channel probably know a damn lot about linux, you just asked a very wrong question :)
19:15<drac_boy>V453000 and what do you mean by that? :P
19:16<V453000>Don't ask to ask, just ask
19:16<V453000>you should ask your problem straight away :p
19:18*drac_boy whumps a pillow at V453000?
19:18<drac_boy>heh
19:18<V453000>pillows dont help :)
19:19<Rhamphoryncus>V's got a thick skull. Use something harder, like a brick.
19:19<drac_boy>Rhamphoryncus nah I'll rather not
19:19<drac_boy>that'll be considered abuse then ;)
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19:22<drac_boy>so hm anyway first thing was, any thought on gentoo or source mage for a customizeable distro that still can be kept up to date easily?
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21:00<+michi_cc>orudge: The forum server seems to live in the future, I already got the backup message *before* 1:00 UTC ;)
21:11<Mazur>It's only 3:11.
21:22<supermop>hi all,
21:23<supermop>whats the best way to create 1x zoom sprites from hand-drawn 4x zoom?
21:23<supermop>just rescale in PS?
21:25<V453000>re-draw I ould say
21:25<V453000>would
21:27<supermop>ok
21:27<supermop>am thinking of antialiasing, then retracing
21:28<supermop>maybe producing 2x zoom first, then 1x would help
21:28<supermop>as it won't be as big of a change
21:29<supermop>scale 50%, redraw for smaller size, scale 50% again, redraw
21:29<supermop>very tedious though
21:29<supermop>I could also just make different sources
21:29<supermop>current ive drawn all rail sprites in false color at 4x
21:30<supermop>and am recoloring per railtype
21:31<supermop>i.e. color the currently orange ties brown for wood, grey for concrete, color green rails red-brown, dark grey, or light grey
21:32<supermop>I could have another layer with the same thingss drawn either smaller, or chunkier
21:32<V453000>which newgrf?
21:33<supermop>monorail is still a tricck, but i think i have a workaround
21:33<supermop>I am making a new one
21:33<V453000>well yeah but what sort ... trains?
21:34<supermop>for ages i've wanted someone to code MLSD to be railtype aware, so that i could use each rail type to in a given set to implement a different depot style
21:34<supermop>no one ever did, so now I am trying to make my own rail grf
21:34<V453000>oh, rails
21:35<V453000>hm rescale might work there fairly well I guess
21:35<V453000>hard to say really
21:35<supermop>so that i can provide different railtypes to give different depots
21:35<supermop>the rails blur out
21:35<supermop>anyway
21:35<supermop>im doing opposite of fine scale - they are a bit wider than normal
21:36<supermop>and they are ugly
21:36<supermop>so n one will likely use the grf
21:36<supermop>hopefully someone will put it over a popular rail grf somehow
21:37<supermop>anyway here is the thing with monorail though
21:38<supermop>at 1x zoom its just a fat white line, but at 4x, the beam has real height
21:38<supermop>but rails are flat
21:39<supermop>which means that if you draw it to give it the illusion of depth like in TTD, it will either look bad on corners, or bad on straights
21:39<V453000>idk :) I find drawing in EZ pointless tbh
21:39<V453000>but even if you do that, I would personally recommend to focus on the 1x the most
21:40<supermop>so i am thinking of making the beam actually have height - and fake it with caternary
21:41<supermop>ie have monorail have a custom caternary, with the sprite drawn and positioned as the monorail beam
21:41<supermop>hmm yeah most people play at 1x most of the time anyway
21:46<supermop>actually redrawing at 2x isn't bad
21:47<supermop>if i make 2x look good then i can probably scale to 1x from there without it looking muddy
21:47<supermop>maybe even repeat for .5x
21:47<V453000>I think it is a lot different between 4x->2x and 2x->1x but not sure, never done that
21:48<supermop>well with thin rails as is the fashion,
21:49<supermop>going straight from 4 to 1 you can lose place of where the rails actually go
21:49<supermop>at 2 you still have some remininds
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21:50<supermop>so touch those up so that something carries through to 1x
21:50<supermop>going from 4 to 1 only 1 pixel in 16 survives
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21:50<supermop>unless you use aa, inwhich case its all a blur
21:51<supermop>going from 4 to 2 and 2 to 1, its 1 in 4, and if rails are 2px wide, those are good odds
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22:48<rails>all the hilights
23:03<supermop>haha
23:03<supermop>sorrry
23:41<supermop>hmmm i guess i should add layers to my false color template for NG, 3rd rail, etc
---Logclosed Tue May 01 00:00:52 2012