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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-05-04

---Logopened Fri May 04 00:01:00 2012
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05:11<adamkex>good morning
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06:24<adamkex>how can i enable newgrf on my server?
06:26<Hazzard>Is it dedicated?
06:27<adamkex>Yeah
06:27<adamkex>i copied the tars over and my openttd.cnf
06:27<adamkex>everything in [newgrf] gets erased
06:28<Hazzard>I actually don't know how to
06:29<adamkex>hm
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06:29<Hazzard>Did you seach online?
06:30<adamkex>yes, the wiki says nothing
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06:33<adamkex>is there anyway to make openttd more verbose?
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06:40<Eddi|zuHause>adamkex: with the "debug_level" command or the "-d" parameter
06:41<adamkex>Eddi|zuHause: ok i will try it
06:41<adamkex>if it doesn't work now
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>like "-d misc=3" or "-d grf=3"
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>or something
06:41<adamkex>now it worked, openttd does not do case sensitive files in windows
06:41<adamkex>and doesn't seem to extract tars on linux
06:45<Ammler>self build or download?
06:45<adamkex>gentoo
06:45<adamkex>USE="dedicated openmedia png -aplaymidi -debug -iconv -icu -lzo -timidity -truetype -zlib"
06:46<Ammler>so you should talk to the maintainer there
06:47<Ammler>in the meantime, you could use a bundle from openttd.org, those should work
06:47<adamkex>it works now
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06:48<drac_boy>hi
06:48<adamkex>the main 2 problems were that the linux version did not untar the newgrf and the windows version did not use a case sensitive config
06:48<drac_boy>?
06:48<adamkex>and linux is usually case sensitive
06:48<adamkex>Eddi|zuHause: thank you
06:50<adamkex>and i did not build the windows version
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06:57<adamkex>but i might have done something wrong
06:57<adamkex>at least it works now
07:00<drac_boy>adamkex I've sometimes found windows a bit difficult to deal with at times. especially when it asks if you want to replace one with others when coping both text file 'drafts' and folder 'drafts' :-s
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07:00<drac_boy>and don't ask me about unicode symbols neither
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07:02<adamkex>drac_boy: the issue seemed to be about case sensitivity, but it's solved now, the my newgrfs work now :)
07:02<krinn>hi all
07:04<drac_boy>adamkex believe it or not but I do sometimes have days where I got both TODO.txt and todo.txt in the same folder .. another way to confuse windows when it tries to read the ext hd :-p
07:04<drac_boy>never tried with linux yet so hm dunno how it'll react
07:04<drac_boy>hi krinn
07:05<adamkex>well i am running a linux dedicated server with my friends :)
07:05<drac_boy>adamkex btw by newgrfs do you mean your own or just simply downloaded ones?
07:06<drac_boy>oh ok
07:06<adamkex>Ammler: the so called admin interface that i should be able to connect to, is it the same interface of the one when i just host a game using the windows binary?
07:07<drac_boy>how're you krinn?
07:07<adamkex>drac_boy: downloaded ones
07:07<krinn>drac_boy, fine, thanks
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07:13<drac_boy>what doing krinn?
07:13<Ammler>adamkex: and you ask me that because?
07:13<krinn>drac_boy, working on SPC
07:14<drac_boy>spc?
07:14<krinn>SCP
07:14<krinn>mistake
07:14<Ammler>but yes, I assume, both linux and windows support the admin interface, but I am not aware of any server using it
07:14<drac_boy>hm which scp? heh
07:15<krinn>http://wiki.openttd.org/Script_communication_protocol
07:15<drac_boy>oh ok, have fun either way
07:15<drac_boy>:)
07:15<krinn>eheh i'm :)
07:17<adamkex>Ammler: you seem to be very knowledgable, but i found out that i should use rcon to control the server
07:18<Ammler>hehe
07:19<Ammler>you misinterpreted, but you should anyway not highlight people for generic questions ;-)
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07:19<drac_boy>hmm should work on my tracking table a bit more later..not looked at anything for the whole week
07:19<adamkex>:p
07:20<Ammler>on windows, you don't have a console, there the admin interface might be very useful
07:20<drac_boy>still wondered how common carbody diesels were world-wise
07:21<drac_boy>I only know of them in north america and uk for most part
07:32<NGC3982>is there a way to revert a grf back to nml, gfx and a language file?
07:32<drac_boy>NGC3982 grfcodec can't do that..or can it? I dunno tbh
07:33<NGC3982>just for experimenting, that is.
07:33<peter1138>no
07:33<peter1138>it's a bit like decompiling a C program
07:33<NGC3982>ok.
07:34<NGC3982>bah. i can barely irc on this connection.
07:35<NGC3982>well, the thing is. i think i got a decent grip on making simple grfs. what i want to know more about is changing an industry
07:36<NGC3982>and i guess looking at the nml code from a industry grf would help me.
07:43<Ammler>where do I see the __DATE__ and __TIME__ from rev.cpp?
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07:47<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: on windows, in the properties page?
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08:03<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: hehe, and where/how on good old linux?
08:04<Ammler>NGC3982: which industry grf you are interested in does not provide sources?
08:04<Ammler>maybe ask the author then
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08:06<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: no idea... never crossed my mind to look for it
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: possibly in the crash log
08:06<Ammler>I tought, it is in the gamelog
08:06<Ammler>how do I create a crash log without crash?
08:06<Ammler>or how do I trigger a crash?
08:07<Eddi|zuHause>there's a key combination if you compiled a debug version
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10:03<@Terkhen>hello
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11:12*Rubidium wonders who's having the most railway related nick name in this channel. I'd go for frosch = frog (part of a switch)
11:13<frosch123>only part of switches?
11:14<frosch123>aren't there four of them on every tie?
11:15<__ln__>Rubidium: how about the nick 'rails'
11:15<Rubidium>are those called frogs as well? I can't find any easy trace of that
11:15<Rubidium>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_turnout#Frog_.28common_crossing.29
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11:19<frosch123>that thing is something entirely different to what i considered a "frosch" on rails
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11:27<frosch123>hmm, seems like english frog and german frosch are different things
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11:27<frosch123>a frosch is indeed a rail clamp
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12:01<supermop>hi!
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12:33<supermop>I think rail blue would look nice on a bike frame
12:33<supermop>not sure where to fit the large logo
12:40<supermop>yellow wheels of course
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13:13<Nat_aS>morning
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13:18<@Alberth>hi andy
13:19<andythenorth>lo
13:20<@Alberth>threatening to release a new version works :p
13:21<andythenorth>"never ever promise release dates"
13:21<andythenorth>I thought that was the rule? :P
13:21<andythenorth>specially as I haven't written the code for this release
13:21<andythenorth>and I have to work all weekend on real work
13:22<andythenorth>:)
13:22<@Alberth>:)
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r24198 /trunk/src/lang/ (korean.txt polish.txt ukrainian.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 2 changes by telk5093
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: polish - 46 changes by Kilian
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: ukrainian - 3 changes by edd_k
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14:07<Wolf01>'evenink
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14:10<johnboy>hey im needing some help, i have downloaded the uk V3 but have a problem, its not letting me upload the new cargo any help?
14:10<@Alberth>upload?
14:10<johnboy>sorry load
14:10*Alberth is looking for an openttd
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14:12<@Alberth>oh, the scenario is completely broken
14:13<@Alberth>it does not have a vehicle grf loaded to transport the cargoes
14:15<@Alberth>just delete the scenario, it's useless
14:16<@Alberth>not to mention it is way too big for single player
14:17<Wolf01>happened to me too with the 2cc-train-set
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14:18<johnboy>i wouldnt say useless and also maybe but i do like it
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14:20<johnboy>just wondering if anyone knew how to sort it
14:21<johnboy>thank you
14:21<@Alberth>write a more useful scenario editor where you can change newgrfs after opening the editor, I am afraid
14:22<@Alberth>less work is to rescue the heightmap, and make a new scenario
14:23<johnboy>i was a afraid of that, im sort of a lazy sod haha thank you tho
14:23<@Alberth>even less work is to rescue the heightmap and use that to generate a new game :p
14:23<@Alberth>it won't be RL-like though :)
14:24<FLHerne>The towns would be in the wrong place :P
14:24<@Alberth>FLHerne: an alternative earth :)
14:25<@Alberth>on the other hand, you could play thre sub-tropical climate then :)
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14:37<andythenorth>we should make a teeny-tiny grf
14:37<andythenorth>http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=478273
14:41<@Alberth>brickland trains!
14:41<andythenorth>just do small
14:41<andythenorth>2px or so
14:41<andythenorth>everything teeny tiny
14:41<andythenorth>industries 1 tile
14:42<andythenorth>1tile is a city block, not a house
14:43<andythenorth>all vehicles max 1/8 long
14:43<andythenorth>ships could be ocean-going scale!
14:43*andythenorth wonders how fast this could be pixel-generated
14:44<andythenorth>do it like a map
14:44<FLHerne>Surely the roads would look silly?
14:44<andythenorth>they'd be motorway sized
14:44<FLHerne>Or have eyecandy city-blocks next to tiny roads?
14:44<andythenorth>all roads would be 3 lane super highways
14:45<andythenorth>vehicle movement paths would be fixed :|
14:45<andythenorth>limiting factor :P
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: only if you do it with cubicles!!
14:46<FLHerne>Could you do ridiculous vehicle offsets so that different vehicle types appeared to follow a range of roads on the same tile?
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15:03<supermop>hi
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15:07<andythenorth>lo mop
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15:13<supermop>how's it going andy?
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16:05<andythenorth>gah
16:06<supermop>?
16:06<andythenorth>javascript always seems insane
16:06<andythenorth>why dick around calling it a hash?
16:06<andythenorth>it looks like a dict to me
16:06<andythenorth>then have 47 badly written articles in google serps about 'hashes are really just objects'
16:06<andythenorth>but written by people who seem to have the barest grasp of programming
16:07<andythenorth>'hashes are associative arrays, but also objects'
16:07<andythenorth>meh
16:07<andythenorth>'forget everything you know from other languages'
16:07*andythenorth is not a programmer, but javascript is retarded
16:08<@Alberth>oh, no doubt it has its uses :)
16:08<@Alberth>never looked at it though :)
16:08<andythenorth>it's not even magical
16:08<andythenorth>it's just another scripting language
16:09<andythenorth>but most of the users posting about it are illiterate
16:09<andythenorth>so a typical web search for examples becomes very annoying quickly
16:09*andythenorth is grumpy
16:09<andythenorth>and should sleep
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16:28<andythenorth>hmm
16:28<andythenorth>can't pile up functions in js
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18:30<@Terkhen>good night
18:31<jnx>http://picpaste.de/town1.png town2.png town3.png - there is a ring of avenues with trees that seems to be dependent upon the location & size of the business district (as removing the commercial areas will move the tree ring)
18:37<jnx> Another odd-looking sideeffect is that the pavement next to roads are getting reconstructed after the demolition of office building blocks
18:39<jnx>(the latter seems to be for replacing roads with tree-lined roads)
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18:55<Guinness2702>Hey there :) Problems with openttd, on xubuntu; the game keeps hanging after maybe half an hour of play. Any idea where I can look for clues - is there a debug log file or something I can look at?
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19:04<Eddi|zuHause>jnx: yes. the "town zones" form circles, and they are dependent on the number of houses in the town
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19:12<Zuu>Guinness2702: If the program crashes, there is crash.log, crash.png, crash.sav etc. If the program just freezes without a crash, then I don't think there are any such crash files.
19:12<Guinness2702>Zuu: where are they created?
19:12<Zuu>If its a freeze, try to load a recent autosave and see if it can be reproduced.
19:12<Zuu>In Windows they end up in Documents\OpenTTD. So for you they'll probably end up in ~/.openttd/
19:13<Guinness2702>Zuu: nope. If I load an autosave, I get another 30-40 min of play, before it freezes again - happens *every* time
19:13<Zuu>Which version of OpenTTD do you have?
19:13<Guinness2702>um, how do I find out? I installed via ubuntu software centre today
19:14<Zuu>If you start OpenTTD its written at the top of the menu window.
19:14<Guinness2702>aha
19:14<Guinness2702>OpenTTD 1.0.4
19:15<Guinness2702>no logs in ~/.openttd/
19:15<Zuu>Please try last stable 1.2.0. If its still there, I would upload the savegame to bugs.openttd.org.
19:16<Guinness2702>Zuu: where do I get it? ... openttd webby right?
19:16<Zuu>http://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable <-- there
19:16<Zuu>There is specific ubuntu builds as well as a generic linux build.
19:17<Guinness2702>okay, installing now :)
19:18<Guinness2702>...well maybe
19:19<Zuu>1.0.4 is two years old, so there is some potential that this has been fixed, although I don't remember this particular bug specifically from the 1.0-era.
19:20<Guinness2702>I installed a couple of the add ons, via the interface - e.g. an AI pack, a couple of name packs, and vehicle packs
19:20<Zuu>Hmm, well 1.0.0 is two years old 1.0.4 might be some months yonger.
19:20<Guinness2702>So unlike canonical to have out of date software :D
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19:22<Zuu>Those add-ons shouldn't freeze or crash OpenTTD. If OpenTTD for any reason crashes its a bug. The only really exception is if you have changed NewGRFs in running game, then you have been warned and are only yourself to blame.
19:23<Guinness2702>I'm pretty sure I didn't do that
19:23<Zuu>There is a red warning box if you try to do it.
19:24<Guinness2702>nah, only warning boxes I saw were - no AI installed, and "you cannot remove signals from here" lol
19:25<Guinness2702>Okay, I have 1.2.0 - guess I'll see you in about 30-40 min :D
19:27<Zuu>hehe :-)
19:44<Wolf01>'night
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19:50<jnx>Aircraft with 952 km/h seems slowe than maglev with 643 km/h
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19:52<Hazzard>They are actually going 1/4 the speed
19:53<Hazzard>or maybe 1/3
19:53<Hazzard>You can change it in the settings
19:57<Zuu>or you could think that the game takes the perspective of someone being on the ground where a train looks faster than a plane up in the sky. Although the view is looking down at the surface. :-)
20:00<Hazzard>There are the planes that go 2329km/h
20:01<Hazzard>strangly, none between 952 km/hr and 2329
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20:13<+michi_cc>Zuu: If he's using AIs, 1.0.4 might still be affected by some of the squirrel bugs regarding list sorting (e.g. FS#4830)
20:14<jnx>Hazzard: that's because it's rather inefficient to fly >950
20:14<Zuu>michi_cc: good point
20:14<jnx>(in the real world)
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20:24<Hazzard>?
20:24<Hazzard>Why would it be?
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20:25<Guinness2702>Zuu: I make that about an hour now, and still no hang with 1.2 :) :) :) Thanks for the suggestion
20:25<Zuu>Great
20:26<jnx>Hazzard: likely air resistance?
20:26<jnx>Hazzard: why else would there be no supersonic flights? (Even the COncorde was decommissioned, though not for the reason of inefficiency arguably)
20:28<Hazzard>There is still time
20:28<Hazzard>The high speed planes are probably released to early
20:29<Hazzard>but who knows what the future might have
20:40<Hazzard>Does anyone know how to make it so that a vehicle won't carry 4x pax, 2x mail, and 2x goods?
20:42<jnx>What kind of vehicle
20:44<Guinness2702>Okay, quick question about 1.2; It doesn't seem to show help, when I right click on a tool, like 1.0.4 did. Is there an option to turn this on?
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20:50<Hazzard>jnx: RV
20:50<Hazzard>is there a difference?
20:51<jnx>Road Vehicle? Rail Vehicle?
20:52<jnx>Most road vehicles only carry one type of goods (but what do I know...), so the question seems moot.
20:52<jnx>In case of rail vehicles, "don't add a mail van?"
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20:59<+michi_cc>Guinness2702: Somewhere in Advanced settings -> Interface
20:59<+michi_cc>Tooltips are with mouse hover now by default.
21:09<Hazzard>I mean the cargo_capacity parameter.
21:09<Hazzard>I want to avoid "By default, passenger capacity is 4x, and mail/goods capacity 2x larger than capacity for other cargoes. The capacity set here is used for the default (i.e. first refittable) cargo. Use the cargo_capacity callback to avoid this effect"
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21:09<Hazzard>I don't know about the last part
21:10<Hazzard>callbacks and whatnot
21:12<Hazzard>I tried making a switch but it says I cannot use a switch as a parameter
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21:18<Hazzard>(I am making a road vehicle, sorry if that wasn't clear)
21:24<+michi_cc>Hazzard: There's a misc_flag (http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/RoadVehicles#Miscellaneous_flags_.281C.29) for that, but it's not documented on the NML specs wiki, so I don't know if NML aready supports that specific flag.
21:26<+michi_cc>And for callbacks: http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial/Callback_and_switch
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---Logclosed Sat May 05 00:00:58 2012