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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-05-10

---Logopened Thu May 10 00:00:15 2012
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01:32<NGC3982>morning.
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06:45<drac_boy>know this is a bit offtopic but anyone know what a 'ferry boat car' is? it appears to look like a standard long 2-axle box van to me
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06:49<peter1138>i know what a ferry is
06:49<peter1138>and a boat
06:49<peter1138>and a car
06:50<peter1138>is it a boat that drives on roads? ;p
06:56<drac_boy>I'm serious ok? you got some funny ideas tho
06:56<drac_boy>heh
06:59<drac_boy>heres one photo btw http://www.reynaulds.com/products/Roco/66252.aspx
07:09<drac_boy>seen it yet peter1138?
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: the german railway produced some freight cars with (smaller) british loading gauge, so they could be used on ferry routes between britain and the main land
07:13<drac_boy>oh, that explains the name now... ferry for uk gauge
07:13<drac_boy>thanks
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09:19<Hazzard>Hi
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10:22<Hazzard>Hey, does anyone know if it is possible to do something like this:
10:22<Hazzard>GRAI,WHEA,MAIZ,CERE: spritegroup_hoverhopper_grai_01;
10:22<Hazzard>or do they have to be listed individually?
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>you have to split it.
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>or provide a patch for it :)
10:24<Hazzard>Ok, thanks
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11:13<andythenorth>hello
11:15<telanus1>hi
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12:34<lestat>hi all
12:35<lestat>and created a new game someone wants?
12:36<lestat>http://www.openttd.org/en/server/58397
12:37<lestat>Is anyone reading the chat?
12:38<TinoDidriksen>Yes
12:38<TinoDidriksen>This is not the channel to advertise games, though.
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12:38<lestat>you want to play a game?
12:39<TinoDidriksen>No
12:39<lestat>ok
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12:51<@Terkhen>hello
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12:54<NGC3982>lestat: ill join.
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13:08<supermop>hi
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13:18<NGC3982>lestat: you've had like six train crasches in five minutes
13:18<NGC3982>whats up
13:18<NGC3982>:D
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13:30<frosch123>ah, V453000 is the counter-example i was searching for: not all numbers related to ottd have each prime factor at most once. q.e.d
13:31<V453000>wha?
13:31<V453000>whas is a prime factor
13:31<frosch123>453000 has prime factor 2 and 5 more than once
13:32<frosch123>@calc 151 * 5 * 5 * 5 * 3 * 2 * 2 *2
13:32<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 453000
13:33<frosch123>dadymax made the suggestion that numbers in ottd commands can be transfered more effectively, if we assume that all numbers related to ottd have each prime factor at most once
13:33<V453000>ah I see
13:33<V453000>:p
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13:34<frosch123>hmm, though 1138 likele always fails, since it is not within the first 32 primes
13:34<frosch123>*also
13:34-!-Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> oxygen.oftc.net quits: +tokai|noir, Maarten, Eddi|zuHause, roadt_, xiong, Nat_aS, Guest117
13:34<frosch123>now i scared them :)
13:35<supermop>andythenorth: how about a vineyard as an early simple industry
13:35-!-Netsplit over, joins: +tokai|noir, roadt_, xiong, Eddi|zuHause, Guest117, Nat_aS, Maarten
13:35<frosch123>though i cannot believe i scared Eddi|zuHause with primes
13:36-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: what?
13:37<supermop>looks like a chateau, produces small amounts of alchohol and fruit, does not use supplies and phases out or becomes less competitive around 1850-1900, at which time the more industrial fruit plantation+brewery chain supplants it
13:37<frosch123>i just talked about prime numbers when you was forced to leave the server
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13:37<andythenorth>supermop: it's a nice idea
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>i have a _really_ long netsplit list here :)
13:37<andythenorth>dunno if it's core FIRS
13:38<supermop>doesnt require any new cargoes, doesent disrupt current chains, and is a good simple pre-industrial route to serve with small carts etc
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13:41<Wolf01>evening
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13:44<andythenorth>supermop: why would it close (other than for gameplay reasons)?
13:44<supermop>maybe from 1980s onwards it accepts passengers (on wine tasting trips, so they need to take the bus, can't drive themselves)
13:45<supermop>it would be pretty to keep them around decorating the countryside, but they should be superseded in gameplay terms
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r24222 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt russian.txt swedish.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 27 changes by mtormo
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: russian - 22 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: swedish - 24 changes by Joel_A
13:45<supermop>lunch brb
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13:48<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: FIRS vineyard, yes or no in your view?
13:48*FLHerne votes yes
13:48<andythenorth>funny spelling of 'eddi' :P
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: taking fruit and producing alcohol?
13:48<FLHerne>Yes, but more industries! :P
13:49<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: producing alcohol directly
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>ah
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>interesting
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>yes
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13:49<andythenorth>I am thinking maybe yes too
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13:49<andythenorth>I am finding short industry chains more relaxing to play with :P
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>possibly restrict to the agriculture economy, to not overload the basic one?
13:50<andythenorth>+1
13:50<andythenorth>can accept FMSP
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14:08<supermop>ok
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14:34<andythenorth>hmm
14:34<andythenorth>time for roadtypes?
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14:41<Nat_aS>Roadtypes could make sense if you turn infrastructure maintenance on.
14:45<andythenorth>hmm
14:45<andythenorth>why do I use boats everywhere?
14:45<andythenorth>I thought this was a train game :P
14:45<Nat_aS>because you made them?
14:45<Nat_aS>:P
14:46<Nat_aS>I hate boats, I'm too impatent, and it feels like the engine does not support them
14:47<andythenorth>try playing a hilly map with 60% water
14:47<andythenorth>feels like trains don't belong
14:47<Nat_aS>still, boats feel unsuported
14:48<Nat_aS>they should add in a boat speed factor option to make them faster, or an option to record veichile profit over multiple years.
14:48<Nat_aS>because a long range boat can lose money for years on end before reaching port
14:48<andythenorth>why?
14:49<andythenorth>my boats are coining cash
14:49<andythenorth>[small map though]
14:49<Nat_aS>and it can be hard to estimate if the bazilion dollars it makes when it finaly gets there are wroth the bazillion dollars they wasted in transit.
14:49<Nat_aS>it's only a problem on largeish maps, but it's anoying
14:49<Nat_aS>easier to improve reach than it is to improve grasp
14:50<Nat_aS>maps can be as big as memory will allow, but the interface is still from the early 90s
14:50<Nat_aS>(and yet our interface is still better than simutrans :P)
14:50<andythenorth>that's because large maps are a misfeature :P
14:50<Nat_aS>yes exactly
14:50<Nat_aS>programers did it because it was easy, and map makers did it because they could
14:51<Nat_aS>and the rest of the game suffers for there decadence :P
14:51<__ln__>"Llaman a una ambulancia para Richard Stallman, se suspende la conferencia en la UPC" https://twitter.com/#!/Marinmenyo/status/200628420789547010/photo/1
14:51<Nat_aS>English channel __ln__
14:52<__ln__>Nat_aS: Gibraltar peninsula Nat_aS
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15:29*andythenorth dislikes the CHIPS docks
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15:29<Wolf01>bye
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16:46<@Terkhen>good night
16:47<Nat_aS>so
16:48<Nat_aS>if you create a new company, and then switch back to your old company and buy it out
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16:48<Nat_aS>is there any advantage in doing that instead of taking out 200k loan?
16:48<Nat_aS>other than possibly abusing town opinions?
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17:32<Nat_aS>so I have two airplaines, one earns a profit, and is earning enough money to pay for the other plane which is not
17:33<Nat_aS>should I sell the second plane to save money, or keep it to boost the station raitings?
17:33<Nat_aS>is it better to always be full, or always have a good station raiting?
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18:15<TrueBrain>Nat_aS: I know it might not be expected, but in this channel we generally don't play the game, so don't have much to say one way or the other about what is best :P
18:15<TrueBrain>I am guessing the coop channel has more/better input on those things :)
18:17<Nat_aS>lol
18:17<Nat_aS>link?
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19:09<Eddi|zuHause>type !help to get the link :p
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19:39<drac_boy>have another question if thats ok...were 3-axle coaches usually for branchlines due to lighter axle loading or did they end up on mainlines in certain cases as well?
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19:59<drac_boy>hi michi_cc :)
20:06<Nat_aS>hey question
20:06<Nat_aS>is there a newgrf perameter that allows engines to be reversed in multihead trains
20:07<Nat_aS>IRL, when a train has more than one engine, the second or third will be facing backwards for some reason, with only the first engine facing forward
20:07<Nat_aS>this happens on large north American freight trains
20:07<Nat_aS>but in OTTD if you multihead, all the engines will face forward.
20:07<glx>use ctrl
20:07<Nat_aS>you can do that?
20:09<Rienzilla>!help
20:09-!-Rienzilla was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
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20:09<Rienzilla>lol, how nice :D
20:09<Nat_aS>lol
20:09<Nat_aS>http://waynesword.palomar.edu/cajtrain.htm
20:10<Nat_aS>looking at pictures, it seems to be arbitraraly random
20:10<Nat_aS>I guess only the direction the first engine is pointing in matters,
20:10<Nat_aS>it's not worth it to turn the extra engines around while forming the train.
20:10<Nat_aS>although one in the back facing reverse probably helps when attaching to the cars.
20:11<Nat_aS>http://waynesword.palomar.edu/images/gltrai3b.jpg
20:11<Nat_aS>are these engines going backwards, or are those longnose types?
20:12<drac_boy>could be either
20:13<Nat_aS>I just realized how ambigious that was
20:13<drac_boy>get a closer photo to find where the "F" letter label is on the side of chassis .. that'll tell you what it was originally set up for
20:13<drac_boy>F is short to Front naturally
20:13<drac_boy>even the carbody diesels still had the F letter next to the nose
20:14<Nat_aS>I know some engines have cabs in the back for safety, if they hit something, the engine will absorb the impact and protect the driver
20:14<drac_boy>Nat_aS mind you tho.. a lot of Alco RS used to be sold as long-nose but were rebuilt for either dual or short-nose instead due to the amount of smoke they could make
20:14<Nat_aS>but that reduces visibility, so they usualy put the cab in the front with an impact absorbing section in front of that
20:14<drac_boy>talk about finding your windshield smeared with black oil
20:14<Nat_aS>oh yeah, the smoke is probably also an issue.
20:14<glx>Nat_aS: just ctrl-click on an engine in depot
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20:15<Nat_aS>what CAN'T the ctrl button do in this game
20:15<Nat_aS>seriously
20:15<Nat_aS>I learn somehting new every day
20:15<glx>we call it the magic key ;)
20:16<drac_boy>Nat_aS heres two examples of 'normal' alco engines for you :-p http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7185/6859857789_516c566fd7_z.jpg and http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6137/5978431292_4a5a8be824_z.jpg
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20:16<drac_boy>little smoke was NOT normal on the contrast ... as crazy as that sounds
20:16<Nat_aS>:C
20:17<Nat_aS>hmm
20:17<drac_boy>so you can see why many RS units were eventually short-nose configured
20:17<Nat_aS>that might be an intresting thing to consider in an engine set
20:17<Nat_aS>some trains can't carry passingers, not because they lack steam heat
20:17<Nat_aS>but because they make too much smoke
20:17<drac_boy>and nat_as its not just alcos ... many of the old heavy diesels in russia are known for lots of smokes too
20:19<drac_boy>Nat_aS while we're talking about that there was another thing with baldwin .. they were good at steam locomotives but also had a decent reputation for local and mainroad shunters as well ... they had one slight silly thing tho...
20:19<Nat_aS>steam heating stops being an issue as time goes by in the sets that have it, but engines that make too much smoke should probably never be able to carry passinger cars.
20:19<drac_boy>as one mechanic said.. if a baldwin was not leaking a bit of oil all the times there was something wrong with it
20:19<Nat_aS>Ewww
20:20<Nat_aS>granted, the SR71 blackbird leaks fuel on the runway
20:20<drac_boy>well it goes to show.. alco smokes like steam ... baldwin were overbuilt so they could leak or be overloaded but they keep going .... etc
20:20<Nat_aS>because it's built to allow the metal to expand as it heats up in flight
20:20<glx>concorde leaked too
20:20<drac_boy>and mind you in a few cases a baldwin ended up at the major repair shop only because it finally threw more than one piston AND had a cracked crankshaft at same time
20:20<Nat_aS>and seals the leaks
20:20<drac_boy>that went to show how stout they were on the road
20:21<Nat_aS>lol crazy
20:21<drac_boy>yeah it'll throw one piston but still keep running
20:21<drac_boy>that was a baldwin for you
20:21<Nat_aS>like the Toyota Huix
20:21<Nat_aS>:v
20:22<Nat_aS>Where's andy
20:22<Nat_aS>I need to demand a Huix in BANDIT
20:22<Nat_aS>lowest running cost and highest reliability.
20:22<drac_boy>nat_as mind you electric locomotives sometimes could be the same .. eg a 2011 locomotive dies at station platform due to too much icing up while standing at signal .. while a 1986 locomotive replacement just shoves the dead loco out of way and take the train onward like as if it didn't even know what 'icy temperature' word was
20:22<Nat_aS>can be fitted with a trailer to tripple the cargo capacity.
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20:23<drac_boy>older steels were more stiff than the new steel/plastic they use today sometimes
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20:25<drac_boy>Nat_aS you know a bit of the Long Island Rail Road or not so much?
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20:29<Nat_aS>not really
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20:31<drac_boy>nat_as mm its a commuters based railroad .. and the interesting thing was the era of three different powers together ... the old steamers, the electrics, and the new alco diesels .. more than often it was only the steamers running reliably through the snow :-p
20:32<drac_boy>electrics had problem with frozen rails ... and the alcos failed a lot for some reason
20:33<Nat_aS>ahh
20:33<Nat_aS>Electrics have a problem with frozen rails because they don't give off as much heat?
20:34<drac_boy>nah it was because of the third rail being half-buried in the snow.. and sometimes chunked with ice as well
20:35<Nat_aS>oh, I thought you meant pantograph electric
20:35<drac_boy>Nat_aS there is one way to stop pantograph electrics ... poorly-located air intakes :)
20:36<drac_boy>look at what happened to your cheap bastard eurostar on that one bad tunnel complication before
20:36<Nat_aS>hmm?
20:37<drac_boy>or on a more friendly note noone could had known about the intake's poor location on the GG1 which caused a lot of them to 'die' one bad winter ... part of the fleet got reofitted with a boxy filter on the outside of the intake to cure that problem
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20:38<drac_boy>funny enough these particular GG1s were often pressed to haul the metroliner emus during some winters because these emus had even more problem with the snow
20:39<Nat_aS>hmm, is there any newgrf perameter for handling differently in snow? In alpine maps?
20:40<drac_boy>no idea sorry :)
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20:41<drac_boy>hmm wondering if this ET 420 could fit on light rails now
20:42<Nat_aS>http://waynesword.palomar.edu/images/sdtrai1b.jpg
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20:44<drac_boy>oh NS Plan V trainset...hm
20:44<drac_boy>going to have to narrow it down -_-
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20:54<drac_boy>at least I know I'll like the ET89 :p
20:59<drac_boy>Nat_aS what do you think of it as well? http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Triebwagen_ET89.jpg&filetimestamp=20100829080455
20:59<Nat_aS>nice
20:59<drac_boy>and its pretty much a loco too http://www.zackenbahn.de/Images/2_Vorbild/23_Fahrzeuge/ET89/et89_07.jpg
21:00<Nat_aS>I mostly play the tropic set, but it lacks a lot of niches
21:00<drac_boy>so I could run it alone or with a few wagons .. who'll care :)
21:00<Nat_aS>I'd like to make a set that uses some of it's engines, but has better options for passinger trains, more electrics, and Monolevs
21:01<Nat_aS>also, less funky carlenghts
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21:08<drac_boy>Nat_aS btw can I show you a different form of railcars?
21:15<Nat_aS>sure
21:16<drac_boy>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Wittfeldakkutriebwageninlage.jpg it might look a little chunky but thats for a good reason ...
21:17<drac_boy>guess whats under the hoods at both ends ... its self-powered but makes almost no noise at all except for the traction motors .. and it does not have any pickups of any kind
21:18<drac_boy>or shall I just tell you instead? :)
21:22<drac_boy>Nat_aS?
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21:34<Nat_aS>oh sorry
21:34<Nat_aS>:c
21:35<Nat_aS>you left, but I was going to guess batteries.
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22:32<koreanuser>wallow
22:33<koreanuser>hllo
22:33<koreanuser>newbie
22:33<koreanuser>is here
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---Logclosed Fri May 11 00:00:15 2012