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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-05-17

---Logopened Thu May 17 00:00:36 2012
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05:08<kbadk>When I click on an industry, how come it says something like "Production last month: 63 tonnes of iron ore (60% transported)", when I have a train going a very short distance to there, and there's rarely anything waiting there?
05:08<kbadk>Is it really because it's been waiting for too long at the station before it gets transported? Or how can I increase the amount transported?
05:09<kbadk>Do the secondary industry that I'm transferring the resource to only accept limited amount or what is causing this?
05:17<@Alberth>63 ton is very little
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05:17<@Alberth>@calc 63 * 0.6
05:17<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 37.8
05:18<Andreas>Hi
05:18<@Alberth>60% sounds about right
05:19<@Alberth>you can get better rating by doing some stuff, read the game mechanics wiki page
05:19<@Alberth>hi Andreas
05:19<Andreas>I would like to get started developing :) Is the list at http://wiki.openttd.org/Todo_list still up to date?
05:20<Andreas>I thought I pick some easy tasks like Display date of files in save/load GUI.
05:20<@Alberth>kbadk: you could watch the amount of cargo lying at the station, and see whether it decreases while the train is away
05:21<@Alberth>Andreas: I think so, but the easiest way to check is to build trunk, and check in-game
05:21<@Alberth>and/or read the fly-spray issues
05:22<@Alberth>kbadk: there is an upper limit to the amount of accepted cargo, but with default industries that is a lot more than 63 ton/month
05:22<Andreas>Thanks, I will do that
05:23<kbadk>Thanks for the feedback, I'll have a look at the game mechanics. You say 63 tonnes is very little; is there a way for me to increase that number?
05:24<@Alberth>game mechanics also explains how industries work :p
05:24<kbadk>Thanks ;-)
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05:24<@Alberth>but there are also newgrfs that give you full control if that's what you want
05:25<@Alberth>changing/adding a newgrf cannot be done in a running game, you'll have to start a new one
05:26<kbadk>No thanks, I prefer playing it the way it was meant to be played
05:26<@Alberth>well, opinions differ on that :)
05:27<@Alberth>but I like it with a bit of random behaviour too :D
05:27<kbadk>what random behaviour could that be?
05:27<@Alberth>indsutry production changes, industries closing/opening
05:28<kbadk>If random behaviour is the same as Godzilla or earthquakes and whatelse could totally ruin my Sim City game, then I don't like it one bit :(
05:28<kbadk>I believe industries closes here as well, forrests and oil wells disappear at least
05:28<kbadk>and new forrests pop up
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05:29<@Alberth>play micro-polis, it's open source simcity, but they removed godzilla (due to copyright I think), and the airplane disaster
05:29<@Alberth>but there are no really big disasters in openttd, only small ones
05:29<@Alberth>and you can turn them off :p
05:30<kbadk>Yeah, I haven't really noticed anything myself either
05:30<@Alberth>(except accidents)
05:30<kbadk>and it's been a decade since I played Sim City I think ;-)
05:31<@Alberth>I did a bit of hacking in the open source version, mostly documenting, code refactoring
05:32<@Alberth>but it did not appeal as much to me much
05:32<@Alberth>s/much$/any more/
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05:35<kbadk>would be cool to contribute to a project like this, but I'm not much of a C++ guy I'm afraid
05:37<@Alberth>there are other ways too, wiki, translations, being helpful to new users
05:37<@Alberth>you can also make newgrf extensions, eg a new vehicle or industry set
05:38<@Alberth>I think there are a few wiki pages about things you can do, but don't let that limit you. You can also do stuff that nobody wrote down :)
05:39<kbadk>I guess :)
05:39<@Alberth>can you make 3D models?
05:40<kbadk>no, actually programming is what I find the most interesting, I just haven't done much with C++ in particular
05:40<@Alberth>ok.
05:41<@Alberth>there are also a few python projects, eg NML
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05:42<@Alberth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/ <-- a lot of development with things around openttd happens there
05:43<@Alberth>and you can make a good AI or a nice game script. That's in squirrel
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05:43<@Alberth>just stick around, and I am sure you'll find something :p
05:43<kbadk>;-) i will
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06:09<Zuu>kbadk: If you start by doing eg. squirrel or something else you might find out that you miss a feature in the C++-part of OpenTTD. In that case you'll have motivation to start looking at the C++ code and trying to implement the feature that you miss. :-)
06:10<Zuu>A starting point for AI-programming: http://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Main_Page
06:11<Zuu>Its useful also if you want to write your own Game Script, as they both build on the same foundation.
06:14-!-krinn [~krinn@139.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd
06:14<krinn>hi all
06:14<@Alberth>hi
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06:42<NGC3982>morning :)
06:42*NGC3982 just learned entry-exit
06:45<@Alberth>but you didn't just come in :p
06:46-!-FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
06:48<NGC3982>;)
06:49<NGC3982>i thought i learned entry-exit
06:49<NGC3982>but it looks like i didnt
06:49<NGC3982>:(
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08:01<Zuu>NGC3982: So now you better learn exit or you will be stuck here forever :-)
08:02<NGC3982>:D
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08:22<NGC3982>bah
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09:17<FLHerne>Is there any way to (cheatily) remove vehicles? I seem to have a pair of buses that don't want to go anywhere :-(
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09:28<@Alberth>messed with newgrfs in the game? If so, all hope is lost
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09:37<xiong>FLHerne, here's a risky suggestion: Turn over control of your company to an AI. I've seen AI vehicles in need of service give up waiting where they *must* wait and go to depot. No guarantees!
09:39<CornishPasty>FLHerne: are they blocked by one-way roads? :P
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09:52<krinn>FLHerne: the train crossing your poor buses should work too
10:04*NGC3982 learned entry-exit again
10:05<@Alberth>You figured out what you missed previously?
10:06<NGC3982>kind of
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11:36<TunnelWicht>it is insane to build a ring around the whole map (8000x8000) and collect oil from nearly all oil-fields with trains?
11:37<TunnelWicht>*is it
11:37<TWerkhoven2[l]>depends on what you call insane
11:37<TunnelWicht>we made 1.5 MRD euros in one year
11:38<TunnelWicht>*ingame year
11:38<TunnelWicht>it feels a bit like cheating
11:38<Sacro>Milliard?
11:39<TunnelWicht>1.500.000.000 €
11:40<TWerkhoven2[l]>how many refineries do you transport it to, and do you transport the goods?
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11:40<TunnelWicht>8 refineries and yes we transport most of the goods
11:41<TunnelWicht>and every single trains loops in the ring all the time
11:41<TWerkhoven2[l]>yes, thats insane yes
11:41<opa>how many trains?
11:41<TunnelWicht>500?
11:41<TunnelWicht>685
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11:42<TunnelWicht>on 3 tracks
11:45<TunnelWicht>is it intented to collect oil from the oil fields directly with trains?
11:46<TunnelWicht>http://i.imgur.com/eXdjM.png =)
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12:40<@Alberth>with such insane distances it is easy to make money
12:42<TunnelWicht>:D
12:43<TunnelWicht>average: 1.600.000 per train and refinery
12:43<TunnelWicht>afair
12:44<NGC3982>"öl" is beer in swedish.
12:44<NGC3982>pro-tip of the day
12:45<@Alberth>they stopped using words?
12:47<TunnelWicht>hm?
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13:00<@Alberth>andythenorth: hi, would it be an idea to speed-up FISH boats by eg 10% when empty?
13:01<@Alberth>it looks a bit weird to have a fully loaded and an unloaded boat go at the same speed
13:06<@Terkhen>hello
13:11<andythenorth>Alberth: could do
13:11<@Alberth>hi Terkhen
13:11<andythenorth>the log tug does it
13:11<andythenorth>and one of the hovercraft
13:13<TunnelWicht>btw, the network-code is a bit unstable
13:14<TunnelWicht>on my linux-machine (arch linux, 32bit, linux kernel 3.3.6) i get disconnects very often
13:14<TunnelWicht>on my windows-machine (win7), everything is fine (on the same server)
13:15<@Alberth>and the windows machine is faster than the linux machine?
13:16<@Alberth>your machine has to run at least as fast as the server
13:16<@Alberth>a bit more in fact, as the server tends to skip drawing to the screen :p
13:17<Zuu>NGC3982: And "beer" (spelled with one e) is "pray" in swedish
13:18<Zuu>could also be to ask someone for something
13:22<TunnelWicht>Alberth: its the same hardware
13:22<@Alberth>ok
13:22<@Alberth>don't know what causes it then
13:23<TunnelWicht>i tried some other servers... and i get disconnects too
13:23<TunnelWicht>the problem is, that the error-messages are very general
13:27<@planetmaker>they're even more general, if you don't quote them ;-)
13:28<TunnelWicht>hard to reproduce ^^'
13:29<@planetmaker>but if we don't know *what* issue you have we can't help you at all
13:29<@planetmaker>nor give any advise which even might help
13:29<TunnelWicht>let me try to get the english error-message
13:30<NGC3982>Zuu: praying*.
13:30<NGC3982>to ask, att be.
13:30<NGC3982>to pray, att be.
13:30<NGC3982>:)
13:31<TunnelWicht>NGC3982: so, you pray for food at the resteraunt? nice
13:31<TunnelWicht>*restaurant
13:31<NGC3982>well, its the same word.
13:32<NGC3982>pray, praying, prayed > be, ber, bad (om).
13:36<TunnelWicht>"Network game connection loss"
13:36<TunnelWicht>thats what i get
13:36<TunnelWicht>*lost
13:37<@planetmaker>that's usually a sign of a flaky connection which is interrupted
13:37<@planetmaker>or your computer is too slow
13:39<TunnelWicht>4GB ram and a quad-core :/
13:39<@planetmaker>has nothing to do with the connection of the network then. And the cpu cores... don't matter really much
13:39<@planetmaker>nor the RAM
13:40<@planetmaker>mostly the speed of a single core defines how much you can take. And the network connection might even be out of your hands. Bad provider or so
13:40<TunnelWicht>in other games (for example: xonotic, minecraft), i dont get any connection-problems
13:41<TunnelWicht>my IRC and Jabber also works well :)
13:41<TunnelWicht>*are also working well
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r24261 /trunk/src/lang/ (latvian.txt russian.txt swedish.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: latvian - 18 changes by Parastais
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: slovenian - 2 changes by
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: swedish - 3 changes by Joel_A
13:46<+glx>TunnelWicht: wifi ?
13:46<TunnelWicht>nope
13:46<@Alberth>other games have different network characteristics usually, and irc/jabber is no traffic at all
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13:48<TunnelWicht>teamspeak(3) is also working while i get the disconnects
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13:51<@Alberth>so it's not the connection itself
13:51<@Alberth>(but the data stream)
13:52<@planetmaker>teamspeak and OpenTTD probably use different type of traffic
13:52<@planetmaker>might be handled quite a bit differently
13:52<@Alberth>or your cpu. Did you check whether you have 1 core fully used?
13:52<TunnelWicht>sure. teamspeak is UDP afaik
13:52<TunnelWicht>note fully used, no
13:53<TunnelWicht>*not
13:53<TunnelWicht>i already look at my conky
13:53<@Alberth>ie at a quad-core that is showns as 25% usage, normally
13:53<TunnelWicht>*always (damn)
13:54<TunnelWicht>i can see the usage of each core :) and evry core is under 20% when playing opentt
13:54<TunnelWicht>d
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13:57<Zuu>TunnelWicht: What is the map size of the game you are trying to play?
13:58<TunnelWicht>8000x8000
13:59<TunnelWicht>but i got disconnects on other mapsizes too
13:59<TunnelWicht>512x512, 2024x2024 and 4096x4096
14:03<Zuu>Do you get disconnected on 512x512 on a non-patched build?
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14:12<TunnelWicht>Zuu: thats what i tried to say
14:12<TunnelWicht>:)
14:13<Zuu>It sounded like you were using the same version of OpenTTD when playing both 512x512 and 4096x4096 and 8000x8000.
14:13-!-NOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-88-125.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
14:13<TunnelWicht>i also tried mutiple servers
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14:14<TunnelWicht>but yes, we played smaller maps on the same server
14:14<Zuu>It could be that your problems show up when you use that custom build of OpenTTD, but not the one you can download from www.openttd.org.
14:14<TunnelWicht>i installed it from the archlinux repository
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14:15<Zuu>Standard OpenTTD don't support such large maps, so I was just wondering that you might use a patch pack which could contain any number of changes that we don't know of.
14:15<TunnelWicht>the openttd server is hosted on a windows server 2008 rc2 and the admin used the official binary
14:16<TunnelWicht>oh dear, 2048x2048 is right
14:16<TunnelWicht>(btw: e.foonode.net)
14:17<TunnelWicht>i thought about the boundary and messed things up :/
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14:18<@Alberth>4M tiles is huge for network, coop does no more than 1M tiles
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14:19<krinn>hi again
14:21*Alberth waves again
14:21<krinn>:)
14:23<TunnelWicht>Alberth: the other players (3 windows, 1 linux) have no network-problems
14:23<TunnelWicht>the 1 other linux-user has debian
14:24<@Alberth>Openttd pushes a steady stream of data over a non-standard port. Some ISPs don't like that.
14:25<@Alberth>(I never play network, so I really don't know, just giving things that may or may not go wrong)
14:25<TunnelWicht>hmm
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14:40<Eddi|zuHause>*BUUURP*
14:43<TunnelWicht>bless you!
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>can someone explain my headache?
14:46<TunnelWicht>Eddi|zuHause: headache is mostly caused by higher blood-presure in the head
14:47<NGC3982>and in a bigger perspective, fatigue, stress and dehydration
14:49<NGC3982>some smooth music, low lighting, a few glasses of water and a bit of a lie down should be nuf'.
14:50<SpComb>acute deficiency of alcohol in the bloodstream
14:50<NGC3982>:D
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14:51<TunnelWicht>SpComb: alcohol in the bloodstream?
14:51<TunnelWicht>you mean blood in the alcoholstream
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14:54<Eddi|zuHause>on this day of all days...
14:54<@Alberth>aka 'stress' :p
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure that's the one, of all the above explanations :p
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15:58<Zuu>planetmaker: Nice statue, maybe krinn can be fit vertically? :-p
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16:00<Nat_aS>does anybody know anything about the trains in the tropic set?
16:03<@planetmaker>Zuu: a bit patience. NewGRF coming soon with both your names ;-)
16:03<@planetmaker>4x zoom for the win :-P
16:03<Zuu>Shiny :-)
16:03<@planetmaker>nah, my graphics skills are crappy :S
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16:21<Eddi|zuHause>Nat_aS: the "tropic set" that is like 10 years outdated?
16:25<Nat_aS>yes :P
16:25<Nat_aS>I was wondering about the huge rodesian locomotives
16:25<Nat_aS>what is that bit in front of the engine
16:25<Nat_aS>what's it called, what does it do?
16:26<Nat_aS>I understand the water tank behind the coal car is to increase the range without needing water towers
16:26<Nat_aS>but what is the bit on the front?
16:26<Nat_aS>some sort of overengineered cow catcher in case trees fall on the tracks or something?
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16:28<TWerkhoven2[l]>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NZR_g_class_garratt.jpg <-- like that?
16:28<Nat_aS>yes
16:28<Nat_aS>Oh, I didn't realize it was part of the locomotive
16:28<TWerkhoven2[l]>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garratt
16:28<TWerkhoven2[l]>its actually the water tank
16:29<TWerkhoven2[l]>the rear one is just coal
16:29<Nat_aS>oh it says there are two engines, with one boiler
16:29<Nat_aS>intresting
16:30<Nat_aS>I love those things, Wish that set was updaited
16:30<TWerkhoven2[l]>one boiler, 2 sets of driven wheels, 4 or more cilinders
16:30<Nat_aS>it lacks a lot of niches, and it's rolling stock is kinda boring
16:30<Nat_aS>REFIT BOXCARS TO ANY CARGO
16:30<Nat_aS>NO YOU CAN'T HAVE SPECIALIZED CARS
16:31<Nat_aS>so the extra water tank is not for increased range, but because the engine consumes more than normal?
16:32<Nat_aS>and the increased consumption is why north american raillways which had to go farther, didn't use them?
16:34<Nat_aS>>While at the end of the steam locomotive era most conventional steam locomotives had reached their maximum in "critical dimensions", the Garratt still had some way to go, with larger driving wheels, larger boilers and greater output still achievable.
16:35<Nat_aS>Alt history grf with fantastic super steam engines operating at the same time as Diesels and electrics would be cool.
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16:42<@Terkhen>good night
16:42<@planetmaker>good night, Terkhen
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17:11<Nat_aS>is it possible to build an engine with thee parts, the first and last parts being invisible, and the middle part being longer than the normal .5 tile limit?
17:11<Nat_aS>well longer spritewise,
17:12<Nat_aS>atlernatly, is it possible to have a car's sprite overlap the sprites behind it?
17:12<Nat_aS>instead of the normal layering?
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>difficult/tricky
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17:13<Nat_aS>i just want to see a proper centennial.
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>CETS does that, however
17:13<Nat_aS>Big boys and Garratt engines are easy to do, because they are articulated.
17:14<Nat_aS>but large Disels are a single piece mounted on bogies, which would not be visible, in game terms it would be a single sprite a whole tile long.
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=53511 <- i have written down the basics here
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>but the CETS version is improved over this
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17:20<Nat_aS>I can't load the save there because it has another newgrf in it
17:20<Nat_aS>I disagree with the statement that passinger waggons should be longer though
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remenber... but it's not relevant
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>it's just a wagon going in circles, you can easily build it yourself
17:21<Nat_aS>Trains and carrages are "Chibi" to use a japanese expression.
17:21<NGC3982>kids?
17:21*NGC3982 seems to have forgotten his anime induced youth.
17:21<Nat_aS>but Some engines should be longer than others
17:21<Nat_aS>Chibi means small, often in a distorted cutesy way
17:21<NGC3982>ah
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17:22<Nat_aS>also known as SD (superdeformed)
17:22<Nat_aS>when applied to giant robots
17:22<Nat_aS>it's a handy art style for video games
17:22<NGC3982>ah
17:22<NGC3982>superdeformed is a nice word.
17:22<Nat_aS>because it makes things conveniant sizes, and keeps important details
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>Nat_aS: there's nothing wrong with short wagons. doesn't mean i have to like it.
17:23<Nat_aS>the Super Robot Wars series of games use animated sprites in this art style
17:23<Nat_aS>anyways, what I'm saying is, Carrages should be .5 tiles for conveniance, but some engines ought to be bigger
17:24<Nat_aS>it adds gameplay depth and looks cool
17:24<Nat_aS>like can you afford to run a train that takes up half your stations
17:24<Nat_aS>it's a good idea if your layout can handle it, but on a small layout you have to consider it along with power speed, and running cost.
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>Nat_aS: longer wagons don't mean lower capacity for an X tile train
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>Nat_aS: anyway, CETS implements all of those 7 steps (5 is obsolete)
17:27<Nat_aS>I'm talking about longer engines
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes. and i'm talking about longer wagons
17:27<xiong>Bosh. Trains already are too big, relative to geography.
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>why is xiong not on my ignorelist, actually?
17:29<Nat_aS>yeah, Trains are big enough compared to the world, but some trains should be bigger compared to other trains
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17:29<xiong>There's a general lack of coherent scale in both time and space; and I don't know where to begin to fix it.
17:30<Nat_aS>and trains being disproportionately wide for there length is an acceptable stylistic choice for a game world made out of 64 wide tiles
17:30<Nat_aS>and shit I have to go to work now
17:30<Nat_aS>fuck it, I'll just ride my bike
17:30<Nat_aS>It's a nice day
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>Nat_aS: CETS can be found here: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cets/ or here: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository
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18:08<Boing>boing
18:08<Boing>deutsche hier ? brauche hilfe
18:09-!-Pinkbeast [damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:09<Boing>bitte
18:10<Boing>Help
18:10<@planetmaker>well, what kind of help?
18:10-!-kb_gt [~kb_gt@adsl-89-217-38-150.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd
18:11<Boing>in the fiscal window. which means there others?
18:12<kb_gt>free online comic book kh43.com
18:12<Boing>in play
18:12<@planetmaker>@kban kb_gt
18:12<Boing>in the play
18:12<Boing>in the game
18:12-!-kb_gt [~kb_gt@adsl-89-217-38-150.adslplus.ch] has quit [autokilled: This host triggered network flood protection. please mail support@oftc.net if you feel this is in error, quoting this message. (2012-05-17 22:12:44)]
18:12<@planetmaker>... why did the kban not work?
18:13<Boing>It sports
18:13<@planetmaker>@whoami
18:13<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: I don't recognize you.
18:13<Boing>: D tut mir hint
18:13<Boing>was?
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18:13<@planetmaker>Boing: you could simply answer to my private message where I asked you in German ;-)
18:13<Boing>This translator is really funny
18:14<__ln__>as fun as a fish in your ear can be
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18:19<cyph3r>My jsme kurva ten hokej vyhráli!
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18:19<cyph3r>Kdo mě neHLTne je zkurvypíčahovnosyn.
18:20<@planetmaker>ach...
18:20<@planetmaker>English only
18:20<cyph3r>Sorry, wrong room :(
18:20<@planetmaker>quite
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21:02<KByte>Hello. I have been studying the openttd source code, and I cannot seem to to find out how it retrieves the master gamelist. The closest thing I have found is a NetworkGameList class, but it just adds NetworkGameInfo objects to a list
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---Logclosed Fri May 18 00:00:37 2012