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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-05-19

---Logopened Sat May 19 00:00:40 2012
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02:34<Pikka>hello Alberth
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03:52<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:14<Zuu>good morning
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04:50<Elukka>first commercial launch to the ISS in 5 minutes
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04:51<@planetmaker>oh, thx. I nearly forgot, Elukka :-)
04:52<@planetmaker>moin everyone
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04:56<Elukka>better it aborts there than in the air
04:56<@planetmaker>quite so
04:57<Elukka>i'm interested to know what happened though
04:57<Elukka>it aborted after ignition
04:57<@planetmaker>they said that flight computers did not start up
04:59<Elukka>instantaneous launch window, can't try again today
05:01<@Alberth>someone's day is very much ruined :p
05:01<@planetmaker>sure not. They had a partial ignition. You want every system on 100% capacity before start ;-)
05:01<@planetmaker>haha, Alberth, I guess you're right
05:01<@planetmaker>though... on the last sounding rocket campaign everything worked... until the parachute was supposed to open...
05:02<@planetmaker>we only got back a pile of scattered experiment remains
05:02<@planetmaker>luckily the flash card survived the 80km drop
05:02<@planetmaker>with all the data
05:02<@Alberth>ah you got all the important bits :)
05:03<@planetmaker>yup. But the dreams to re-fly it were literally shattered :-P
05:06<__ln__>"one-second window"
05:06<Hazzard>You always want to know what went wrong the first time
05:08<@planetmaker>in any case, I guess our experiment ride on the dragon space craft will be delayed, too :-P
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09:35<spongie>Is it possible to change the displayed text of a button to some dynamic string, like displaying a specific integer etc?
09:36<@planetmaker>in what context?
09:37<spongie>I have a button that opens a string query, I'd like the text displayed to be an integer value.
09:37<spongie>im guessing one has to define parameters to replace the {*} things in the strings
09:38<@planetmaker>patch / AI / GS / Newgrf?
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09:41<@planetmaker>yes, you define a string with parameter. where the number is the parameter
09:41<@planetmaker>"Clone {COMMA} cars at once"
09:42<@planetmaker>actually... "Clone {COMMA} car {P 0 "" s} at once"
09:46<spongie>How come the caption of my query string window does not recognize {WAYPOINT} ?
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09:53<spongie>how do I set the value of what is inside {COMMA} {NUM} or whatever
09:55<@Alberth>with SetDParam
09:56<@Alberth>there are examples all over the place in the code
09:58<spongie>I see them.
09:59<spongie>however, the {*} contains a name and the D params seem to be index based.
09:59*Alberth nods
09:59<spongie>If I have "{A} and {B}" that means I set parameters 0 and 1 ?
09:59<@Alberth>names are useless with {STRING}{STRING}
10:00<@Alberth>tias :)
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10:02<spongie>I have two problems setting my value. 1) ShowQueryString seems to be a singleton window, is it possible to make it unique per parent only? and 2) ShowQueryString has two string parameters, I can currently only set the parameter for the first (the preset value in the input), how do I set the caption string parameter?
10:03<spongie>(i.e the input window title parameter)
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10:04<@Alberth>no idea, I have not seen that code for several years
10:05<@Alberth>I would not be surprised if it is not possible currently
10:05<@Alberth>does the program have a string query window with variable caption somewhere, currently?
10:06<spongie>Could be.
10:06<spongie>How would you recommend I make an integer input for my window?
10:07<@Alberth>what's wrong with the current query window?
10:07<spongie>the two problems I described above
10:09<@Alberth>I don't understand 1, and why is a fixed "Input value" kind of caption not good enough, given that you have one such window, so no way to get confused, I think
10:10<@Alberth>but if you think it should be done in a different way, extend the code :)
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10:11<spongie>Alberth: one is not about the caption
10:11<spongie>one is about it being a singleton
10:11<@Alberth>yes, why is that bad?
10:12<@Alberth>having 5 windows with just a edit box to enter a number is not useful imho, as I can type in one at a time only
10:12<spongie>So the last one is always for the last activated?
10:13<@Alberth>what do you input?
10:13<@Alberth>why is a double click to edit a number not a good solution
10:14<spongie>i dont know what you mean, double click
10:14<spongie>currently when you click a button in my ui the input appears
10:15<@Alberth>so I type a number, press enter, done. What's the problem?
10:16<@planetmaker>I've the strong feeling that this discussion is way too abstract and would simplify tremendously if we talked a concrete use case and existing patch
10:16<@Alberth>I agree, concrete cases always work best :)
10:17<spongie>Alberth: if one presses the button, the input appears. if one then presses the same button but in another window, the input is a singleton
10:17<spongie>but yes, I can see the point of not allowing multiple inputs
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10:43<spongie>im almost ready to showcase the patch, what would be the best way? forum post?
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12:42<spongie>yay, my shit works.
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12:59*andythenorth has recently sent something into space
12:59<andythenorth>more on that another time :P
13:01<NGC3982>andythenorth: what was it?
13:01<andythenorth>not saying yet
13:03<@Alberth>bits into cyber-space :p
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r24263 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt latvian.txt swedish.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 88 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: latvian - 1 changes by Parastais
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: slovenian - 2 changes by
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: swedish - 37 changes by Joel_A, Zuu
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15:56<OpenTTDfan>i see a lot of idlers..anyone active?
15:57<@Alberth>not today it seems
15:57<OpenTTDfan>you just a regular player?
15:58<@Alberth>I hardly play, unless you mean in the source code :)
15:58<OpenTTDfan>oh goodie
15:58<OpenTTDfan>so you're a developer?
15:58<@Alberth>one of them :)
15:58<OpenTTDfan>are you open to ideas?:)
15:58<OpenTTDfan>new ones
15:59<@Alberth>ideas are the easy part
15:59<OpenTTDfan>I'm loving the open ttd....I'm opening it every morning, before the browser :P
15:59<@Alberth>getting them working in all edge cases and thinking them through is the real challenge
16:00<@Alberth>as you can see in the suggestions forum, there are many people doing suggestions
16:00<OpenTTDfan>i feel ya
16:00<OpenTTDfan>studied that
16:00<OpenTTDfan>in a reasonable matter
16:01<@Alberth>not to mention people spamming our tracker with geature requests :)
16:01<@Alberth>*feature even
16:01<OpenTTDfan>oh i see
16:02<OpenTTDfan>so my idea of making a taxi car service in the game its far fetched?
16:02<@planetmaker>get the towncars grf and use it
16:02<@Alberth>well, it's a new one, I'll give you that :)
16:03<@planetmaker>capacity typically 1 passenger or so ;-)
16:03<@Alberth>you could make 'buses' in the shape of a taxi
16:03<@planetmaker>you even have an AI which will spam towns with those vehicles, if you like. TowncarsAI
16:03<@planetmaker>or similar
16:03<OpenTTDfan>hmmm so it actually exists? gotta check that
16:04<@Alberth>their goal is more to have traffic in the streets
16:04<OpenTTDfan>i see
16:05<@Alberth>but a NewGRF that defines a bus that looks like a taxi is quite feasible
16:05<OpenTTDfan>but it should be a little different
16:05<@planetmaker>then write the matching newgrf and / or AI
16:05<@planetmaker>nothing which core openttd needs to worry about ;-)
16:06<opa>why a new ai is needed?
16:06<OpenTTDfan>like..the taxi should just wonder around cities and take passengers from everywhere...but i guess coding that its just too insane
16:06<@Alberth>yeah, but it feels wrong to me
16:07<@Alberth>OpenTTD is mostly about mass transport between cities, a taxi does not nicely fit in there
16:07<OpenTTDfan>cant code the taxi to randomly take passengers from cities and randomly taking them different distances?
16:08<opa>taxi expands the radius of an airport within a city
16:08<@Alberth>'take passengers'? from where?
16:08<OpenTTDfan>transport own taxi company :P
16:08<OpenTTDfan>from anywhere..just like a taxy
16:08<@Alberth>it is more simcity-ish w.r.t. scale
16:08<OpenTTDfan>no no
16:09<@Alberth>yeah, you are not running a transport company there
16:10<OpenTTDfan>oh cmoon a taxi co is not a transport company?
16:10<@Alberth>sure it is, "there" was in sim-city
16:10<OpenTTDfan>i have no ideea gow the coding is made or if this could be possible...
16:11<OpenTTDfan>stop comparing it to som man lol:))
16:11<@Alberth>quite non-trivial in coding
16:11<@Alberth>all transport runs through stations
16:12<OpenTTDfan>i see there are baloon GRFs going 25kmph...
16:12<OpenTTDfan>well...thats NOT transpor
16:12<@Alberth>so "random pickup" is a whole new ball game, and not compatible with existing (house) newgrfs
16:12<OpenTTDfan>2 passengers
16:13<OpenTTDfan>cant the code be fooled the whole city is a station?
16:13<OpenTTDfan>not throwing stones here just ideas
16:14<@planetmaker>what's the point of random pickup and drop?
16:14<@Alberth>so you just add a station near the edge, and you have coverage over the entire city? nice
16:14<@planetmaker>create some roadside stops and use orders to go to different stations depending on usage
16:15<OpenTTDfan>yea you could add a taxi station....where taxi goes (maybe) when out of orders
16:15<@Alberth>and stations by 2 or more players in the same city become one? WOW IS for free :D
16:16<OpenTTDfan>each player has its own taxies
16:16<@Alberth>you just claimed the entire city was one station
16:16<@Alberth>and I am showing you consequences of that :)
16:17<OpenTTDfan>no...thinking of coding it as it would the taxi could get passengers froem antwhere
16:17<OpenTTDfan>pardon my typos
16:18<@Alberth>as I said quite non-trivial
16:19<OpenTTDfan>the idea is to have taxi cars making deliveries throughout the cities, not necessarily in stations...going randomly wherever street is
16:19<@Alberth>Yeah I understand
16:20<OpenTTDfan>but i guess coding that its probably impossible
16:20<@Alberth>nothing is impossible, it just takes you a few years
16:21<OpenTTDfan>its a transport games, and seeing there are balloons ingame....was thinking that taxi is necessarily
16:21<OpenTTDfan>yea probably
16:22<@Alberth>balloons do start from airports, so behave as 'normal' planes
16:22<OpenTTDfan>thought of that
16:22<@Alberth>they do not try to do new things
16:22<@Alberth>a bus that looks like a taxi is *very* doable.
16:22<OpenTTDfan>trams was a nice idea, just discovered those
16:23<@Alberth>you can also change the drive-through bus stop sprites
16:23<@Alberth>if you want fundamental changes in the game, it is going to take a LOT of time
16:23<OpenTTDfan>is it possible to make a bus go all over and stop in random places? thats a taxi pretty much
16:24<@Alberth>and for a small feature like taxies in a city, tmwftlb imho
16:24<SpComb>busses without orders work fine for non-cargodist games
16:24<SpComb>can even make a profit, sometimes
16:26<OpenTTDfan>I know making a bus look like a taxi is somehow easy....but it shouldn't stop in stations only
16:26<SpComb>what's the benefit of having taxis?
16:26<SpComb>as in, what problem in the game would they solve?
16:27<OpenTTDfan>not a problem, but a real transport in real life
16:27<@Alberth>what's the game profit from it?
16:28<SpComb>OpenTTD isn't all that close to real life
16:28<OpenTTDfan>you mean cash revenue?
16:28<SpComb>it would get in the way of it being fun :)
16:28<@Alberth>ie starting a number of taxies and letting them run all by themselves is not very useful from a gaming point of view
16:28<OpenTTDfan>lol you invented trams so i guess the game tries to follow life...
16:29<SpComb>and taxis are probably too low-volume to work in OpenTTD's macro world
16:29<@Alberth>ie trains are fun because you spend ages on getting the tracks and the cargo transport right
16:29<OpenTTDfan>i know thats why Im playing it :D
16:29<SpComb>and trunk doesn't have cargodist, so intra-town feeder services only work for town growth, anyways
16:29<@Alberth>so what's the fun in taxies?
16:30<@Alberth>you cannot do anything with them
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16:30<@Alberth>ie game extensions are fun-driven, not real-life driven
16:31<@Alberth>don't get me wrong, I think making a taxi NewGRF is fun to do, and fun to run a few times
16:31<@Alberth>but as core game feature?
16:32<OpenTTDfan>oook....what if you can give it paths to when you assign a taxi to follow some paths and you name the paths....throughout the citie ans other citeies as well...wherever street exist...
16:32<OpenTTDfan>don't know...
16:32<OpenTTDfan>just thinkin
16:35<OpenTTDfan>you're probably right taxi is not worth it
16:36<OpenTTDfan>but the games has all the transport possibilities except this
16:36<SpComb>it doesn't have walking either :)
16:36<@Alberth>or cars :)
16:36<SpComb>imagine that, cargo transporting itself without your getting paid!
16:36<SpComb>how evil
16:37<OpenTTDfan>bicycling neither lol
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16:38<OpenTTDfan>oh well...
16:38<OpenTTDfan>no matter the game is fun as it is anyway
16:39<@Alberth>not really, I almost never play it :)
16:39<OpenTTDfan>you are probably sick of it
16:40<OpenTTDfan>when call of dusy is out there...clearly open ttd is losing players lol
16:40<@Alberth>I have no nice build challenges any more
16:40<SpComb>Alberth: tried cargod[ie]st? :)
16:41<OpenTTDfan>how about bridges and tunnels on the diagonal?
16:41<@Alberth>dest worked fine, but it stopped. yacd never worked nicely for me
16:41<@Alberth>needs a map rewrite
16:42<@planetmaker>yacd worked for me... it was actually fun and would be even more fun now with autorefit :-)
16:43<@Alberth>played dist one time, and had trouble with connections dropping due to low volume
16:43<opa>byw how does coding games differ from coding customized business solutions?
16:43<SpComb>dist can be finicky
16:43<opa>from developers point of view
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16:44<@planetmaker>with dist I had some issues wrt load balance and destinations of cargo
16:44<@Alberth>opa: I only do fun things in OpenTTD
16:44<@Alberth>where my notion of fun is probably hugely different from yours :p
16:45<@Alberth>I found yacd very hard to get off the ground, with pax it is pretty much impossible
16:45<OpenTTDfan>i guess optimizing is the name of the fun
16:45<@Alberth>hi Yexo
16:45<@Yexo>hey Alberth
16:46<@Alberth>OpenTTDfan: nope, refactoring is
16:46<OpenTTDfan>hmmm and how is that?
16:46<OpenTTDfan>nothing on wiki lol
16:46<@Alberth>what do you mean?
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16:47<@Alberth> ? :)
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16:48<@Alberth>not that scared hopefully :)
16:48<OpenTTDfan>oh i see....a whole new level of palying open ttd lol
16:50<@Alberth>oh, playing openttd you mean. Right :) I make random unplanned connections, and extend the network. Since I don't make plans, stuff tends to get jammed, so I must re-organize tracks and junctions frequently
16:51<@Alberth>and I play with breakdowns and freight-multiplier at 5 or 6
16:51<SpComb>organic growth
16:51<@Alberth>and no landscaping if possible
16:51<SpComb>uh, breakdowns is just masochistic
16:52<@Alberth> like this :)
16:52<NGC3982>why, god. why.
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16:53<@Alberth>SpComb if you pick high reliability engines, breakdowns are not a problem
16:54<@Alberth>basically, you need to start building extra tracks sooner, as you cannot pack trains together, since a breakdown disrupts everything then
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16:59<@planetmaker>Alberth: for that screenshot I know shorter tracks given the shown trainlength ;-)
17:01<@Alberth>yeah, but it looks so nice ;)
17:02<@Alberth>and this does work better than straight up the hill
17:06<@planetmaker>ofc, I don't mean straight up the hill. But if you go with the uphill track further left and then diagonal, you could avoid the one complete turn
17:16<@Alberth>oh, yeah. There used to be other tracks there :)
17:18<@Alberth>good night all
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17:21<OpenTTDfan>good night
17:21<OpenTTDfan>arent you watching the final :) ?
17:24<OpenTTDfan>bayern gonna win it :P
17:25<@planetmaker>they kinda deserve it ;-)
17:26<OpenTTDfan>you from london?
17:30<OpenTTDfan>chelsea got it
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17:45<FLHerne>Indeed. Didn't deserve it though :-(
17:46<@planetmaker>they should have lost 3:1...
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18:09<Eddi|zuHause>the bayern triple! :)
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18:10<Eddi|zuHause>lost in the Bundesliga, lost in the Pokal, and lost in the champions league :)
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---Logclosed Sun May 20 00:00:42 2012