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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-05-25

---Logopened Fri May 25 00:00:50 2012
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08:06<buli>graj
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08:24<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/xhKhx.png
08:26*MNIM chuckles
08:26<MNIM>customer support with humour. I like
08:45<__ln__>http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/no-cost-desktop-software-development-is-dead-on-windows-8/
08:50-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
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09:01<Elu>http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv
09:01<Elu>dragon very close to the space station, cool views too
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09:06<@Belugas>hello
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09:44<@Terkhen>hello
09:56<__ln__>Canada!
09:56<@Belugas>Underscores!
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10:53<@Terkhen>finally, the spanish translation of OpenTTD is up to date
10:53<@Terkhen>it only took me two weeks
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11:06<frosch123>time to add new strings :p
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11:07<frosch123>hai albert
11:07<@Alberth>niom
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11:08<@Terkhen>hi Alberth, I just finished with the new strings :P
11:09<@Terkhen>you can add another 100, 200 batch now
11:09<frosch123>there were actually some still missing :)
11:09<@Alberth>nice, another language up-to-date :p
11:09*frosch123 looks them up
11:10<@Alberth>any setting without helptext entry? :D
11:10<@Terkhen>I don't know, I'll check them later when my changes are compiled :)
11:10<@Terkhen>s/changes/translations/
11:11<@Alberth>it'd need merging of the game-options and difficuly windows into the advanced settings :p
11:11<@Alberth>Terkhen: there are 3 or 4 that have no help at all currently
11:11<@Terkhen>yes, lately I have been thinking that all settings should be in the same window somehow
11:12<@Alberth>unless someone has been adding them :p
11:12<@Terkhen>or maybe a minimal "game options" window and a "settings" window
11:12<@Terkhen>everything is so... scattered
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11:13<@Alberth>the base set etc does not need to be in the settings imho
11:13<@Alberth>didn't PaulC make a nice mockup somewhere, recently?
11:14<@Terkhen>yes, base set, language and stuff like that would remain at the game options window
11:14<frosch123>Terkhen: i wondered whether we should do it like in bigger supermarkets: if something fits into multiple places it is just put in multiple places. so for ottd we might just add everything to adv. settings while still keeping a simple window for beginner settings
11:15<@Terkhen>maybe... but what about the new game window?
11:15<@Alberth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=59640 was it
11:15<frosch123>Terkhen: fs#5147
11:15<@Alberth>but the top-part could be separated from it mostly
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11:17<@Terkhen>wow, it seems that you have been discussing it a lot :P
11:17<@Alberth>frosch123: it makes a lot of sense to duplicate the settings to the place where it makes sense to modify them, just like the #competitors currently (difficulty & AI config windows)
11:17<@Alberth>lots of easy tasks :p
11:17<@Terkhen>I'll read it later, now I have to set up MSVC for checking that annoying windows bug
11:18<@Alberth>hmm, set up & windows, doesn't that imply lots of time to read stuff? :D
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>IMHO everything that is in the newgame window should be only there for easy/frequent access, it should be repeated in the advanced settings (and an advanced settings button in the new game window)
11:19<@Terkhen>Alberth: yes, setting up MSVC is a PITA :)
11:20<@Terkhen>I still have a windows partition but I'm setting it up in a virtual machine anyways, I can't be bothered to switch OSes
11:21<@Terkhen>Eddi|zuHause: I agree
11:21<@Terkhen>and some settings currently at the new game window feel as advanced to me
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>the average newbie doesn't need to know the random seed
11:22<@Terkhen>or variety distribution
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>let's start with a "new game" section in the advanced settings?
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>also a long-time standing thing is merging the difficulty settings
11:24<@Terkhen>I don't see any need for difficulty settings, there are too many options that affect difficulty already
11:24<Rubidium>Alberth: previously I'd just copy the CF's Windows vbox image ;)
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>lose the easy/medium/hard presets, or introduce a completely new presets mechanism
11:24<@Terkhen>I agree, a preset mechanism for settings could fulfill the same role nicely :)
11:26<@Alberth>Rubidium: whoo, so efficient, that way you never catch up with all those websites ;)
11:27<@Alberth>Terkhen: fs#5147 does a nice job in cleaning up the new-game window
11:28<@Terkhen>Alberth: ok, I'll check it :)
11:28<Rubidium>pff..
11:28<frosch123>hackalittlebit, pm (iirc) and me discussed the removal of the difficulty settings
11:29<Rubidium>maybe one should change the behaviour of the new game button: if you press ctrl you get the current window, otherwise it just generates a new game ;)
11:29<Rubidium>almost all complexity gone!
11:29<frosch123>with fs#5147 the remaining difficulty settings could be moved to adv. settings. highscores would be dropped for the old difficulty presets, and only "custom" would remain. we considered the company league window most suitable for a highscore-button
11:31<Elukka>i think that would hide the game settings rather too well
11:31<frosch123>Rubidium: i thought every ottd player has locked his ctrl key, so it is pressed all the time?
11:32<frosch123>we need a general "invert ctrl-pressing state" setting :p
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: but ctrl+newgame is already used for "quick start"
11:34<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: rb suggests to invert that ctrl state
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>that's bad
11:35<frosch123>actually, if ottd would have been around when the typewritter was invented, there would be no caps lock, but a ctrl lock :)
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>you (or i) would rather have the most common things to change. i.e. townnames/roadside (moved from current game options), climate, starting year
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12:00<Eddi|zuHause>"Three thieves caught attempting to steal the Fucking sign"
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12:04<CIA-17>OpenTTD: frosch * r24270 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt table/settings.ini): -Add: Missing descriptions for adv. settings.
12:05<frosch123>isn't there a video camera installed to observe the sign?
12:08<@Terkhen>lazy translators... spanish is the only language that is up to date
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>no idea
12:10<@Alberth>Terkhen: "english.txt" is up-to-date too :p
12:11<CIA-17>OpenTTD: frosch * r24271 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Change: Remove latin abbreviations from english strings.
12:11<@Alberth>Terkhen: your language needs fixing!
12:11<frosch123>Terkhen: are you sure? it contains two strings that need validation :p
12:14<@Terkhen>Alberth, frosch123: I just checked, it is still complete :)
12:15<frosch123>consider shades of completeness :)
12:16<@Terkhen>the "might contain some stupidities but it has no strings pending" kind of complete :P
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12:52<CIA-17>OpenTTD: frosch * r24272 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] Load cargo- and railtype-translation during both reservation and activation stage. That way they can be selected using Action7 depending on present cargo- or railtypes.
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13:23<CIA-17>OpenTTD: frosch * r24273 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Fix: [NewGRF] GetReverseCargoTranslation() was unnecessary complicated and also returned the wrong thing for cargos not present in the translation table.
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13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: translators * r24274 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: english_US - 6 changes by Rubidium
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: french - 5 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: german - 15 changes by NG
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: greek - 67 changes by kyrm
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf
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13:54<frosch123>lol... there is an ambulance blocking the street in front of my house for about 15 minutes now. there are infact people who wait in their cars behind it instead of reversing and going some other way
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14:12<@Alberth>yo andy
14:16<andythenorth>lo
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14:34<Wolf01>'evening
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14:44<@Alberth>evenink
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15:57<andythenorth>hm
15:57<andythenorth>I need to format a python float for display as currency
15:57<andythenorth>and '%2f' % value isn't working
15:58<andythenorth>prints 0.0
15:59*Rubidium though the first rule of currency is: don't use floats
16:01<Rubidium>>>> print "%0.2f" % 0.5
16:01<Rubidium>0.50
16:03<andythenorth>Rubidium: I will later convert this system to use pence :P
16:03<andythenorth>but that is later ;)
16:04<@Alberth>int((value +0.005) * 100)
16:05*Rubidium would probably use the decimal type
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16:11<andythenorth>solved
16:11<andythenorth>python:str('%0.2f' % attribute_value)
16:12<andythenorth>thanks
16:26<andythenorth>Alberth: goals framework page no longer needed ;)
16:26<@Alberth>I suspected as much :)
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16:40<hackalittlebit>eevnin
16:42<@Alberth>hi
16:45<hackalittlebit>is there a command line option for not scanning newgrf's?
16:46<@Alberth>unlikely, as it needs to look for the base set anyway
16:46<hackalittlebit>man it loooking over and over again at more than 500 newgrf's
16:47<hackalittlebit>going wacko
16:47<@Alberth>it is simpler to move some of them out of the way :p
16:47<frosch123>delete them :p
16:47<@Alberth>it always did that, the program just didn't tell you :)
16:47<frosch123>anyway, for me only the first start up takes long
16:47<frosch123>on the second start, scanning the 900 grfs is considerably faster
16:48<hackalittlebit>tru but still
16:48<hackalittlebit>give me a little cmd line option , pleeeese
16:49<hackalittlebit>:)
16:49<frosch123>mv ~/.openttd/content_download ~/.openttd/dontent_cownload
16:49<frosch123>little enough?
16:50<hackalittlebit>lol
16:50<frosch123>well, what else should it do?
16:50<frosch123>i always do that when using valgrind :)
16:52<CIA-17>OpenTTD: frosch * r24275 /trunk/src/core/smallvec_type.hpp: -Codechange: Make SmallVector::FindIndex() const.
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16:53<hackalittlebit>frosch123: i did this //ScanNewGRFFiles(scanner); but just got a crash. didn't do the trick
16:53<hackalittlebit>:)
16:54<CIA-17>OpenTTD: frosch * r24276 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h): -Codechange: Enhance GRFFile with constructor and destructor.
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16:57<CIA-17>OpenTTD: frosch * r24277 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h newgrf_cargo.cpp newgrf_railtype.cpp): -Codechange: Store cargo and railtype translation tables in a SmallVector.
17:00<CIA-17>OpenTTD: frosch * r24278 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Deduplicate code to read translation tables.
17:03<Sacro>\o/
17:03<frosch123>you are 3:15 late
17:06<Sacro>damn, spotted
17:09<@Alberth>frosch123: 3:15 is pretty close to judge you committed the last patch :)
17:10<frosch123>yeah, after finishing a patch i usually notice that i should also test it at least once, and that's usually when i find something more interesting :p
17:11<frosch123>while i was looking for a hg checkout to write this queue, i also found another nice queue in one of them
17:11<@Alberth>:)
17:11<frosch123>i think i wrote it some week ago, and it also looks somewhat finished, but i cannot remember testing it even once :p
17:12<frosch123>at least hg pull --rebase went smooth :)
17:12<@Alberth>not using patch queues ?
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17:13<frosch123>sure, but hg pull --rebase also works with applied mq
17:13<@Alberth>oh, and it's much shorter than hg qpop -a ; hg fetch ; hg qpush -a
17:14<frosch123>it is said that it is also able to do a 3-way merge, so it should be better in theory
17:14<frosch123>though i never found confidence in any real usecase :p
17:14*Alberth usually edits patch files instead :p
17:15<frosch123>yup :)
17:15<frosch123>if hunks are not applied at all, it is usually easier to fix the diff directly :)
17:16<frosch123>same when splitting patches
17:17<@Alberth>yep :)
17:17<@Alberth>good night all
17:17<Chris_Booth>gn
17:17<Chris_Booth>and hi
17:17<frosch123>hmm, it's still 8 hours before i went to bed last time
17:18<frosch123>maybe i should go earlier today :)
17:18<@Alberth>:)
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17:23<@Terkhen>good night
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17:24<frosch123>night :)
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17:28<hackalittlebit>night
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20:28<Wolf01>'night
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22:53<Nat_aS>Hey, if cargo spends a long time waiting for a transfer, does that make the value go down?
22:54<Nat_aS>because I had a bunch of goods waiting at a port because of a botched cargodist experement, and I tried to get rid of it with trucks, but I can't seem to earn any money off of it
22:55<Nat_aS>no matter how fast or cheap the truck is, it loses money with each transfer.
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---Logclosed Sat May 26 00:00:52 2012