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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-05-30

---Logopened Wed May 30 00:00:57 2012
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02:16<Markk>Goedemorgen.
02:32<telanus>goeie more
02:33<Markk>Alles gut?
02:34<telanus>alles gaat goed
02:34*telanus thinks it's correct
02:34<NGC3982>gaat goed?
02:34<NGC3982>good^good?
02:34<NGC3982>:D
02:35<telanus>:D
02:36<telanus>never 100% sure if I get my dutch correctly. I know we write: Alles gaan goed
02:36<Markk>Good 'nuff
02:36<Markk>:D
02:38<telanus>:-D
02:45<@planetmaker>moin
02:45<Markk>Hoi planetmaker
02:47<NGC3982>morning
02:49<telanus>hi
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03:32*NGC3982 has an urge to play.
03:38<NGC3982>is there any way to slow down time in a server game?
03:38<NGC3982>id like to create a long-play server
03:38<NGC3982>100 years/running week or something
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06:33<lugo>NGC3982, i can't think of anything else other than either pausing when noone's playing or using a modified version of ottd alltogether (with daylength patch)
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07:01<NGC3982>lugo: i see.
07:02<NGC3982>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=20006
07:02<NGC3982>there we are
07:02<NGC3982>ive actually never used a patch for ttd
07:02<NGC3982>other then newgrf, wich i guess goes under some other terminology.
07:04<lugo>of course clients and server need to use the exact same version in this case, so this is a pretty ... cumbersome solution..
07:06<lugo>well from my experience cumbersome, don't know how tech savvy your potential players would be :)
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07:24<NGC3982>yes, i noticed that.
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07:25<NGC3982>would be neat to use as a grf
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09:04<@Belugas>hello
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09:55<Hazzard>Hi
09:55<Hazzard>How do I include the readme and license in-game for a grf?
10:00<frosch123>put them together into a tar
10:00<frosch123>http://bananas.openttd.org/en/manager/tos/ <- the bananas tos contain some details
10:01<frosch123>but it also works without bananas :)
10:03<frosch123>basically readme and licence need to be in the same directory as the grf
10:04<frosch123>so there is always a separate directory for each grf and for each version of it
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10:13<Hazzard>I put the .grf and license.txt and readme.txt into a .tar file and put it into .openttd/newgrf/ but the readme and "licence" buttons are still darkened when I select my grf
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10:15<frosch123>compare the structure of your tar with some you get from bananas
10:16<frosch123>directories and filenames inside the tar matter
10:17<Hazzard>should it be licence.txt or license.txt? The examples use license.txt but the button says licence. I have tried both but niether seem to work
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10:18<Hazzard>ah
10:18<Hazzard>I think I have figured it out
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10:25<Hazzard>It seems it all needs to be inside a folder in the .tar
10:25<Hazzard>Thank you
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10:36<Knogle>Hmm is GetGrowthRate supposed to return 33000 or did I do something wrong? :|
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10:38<Knogle>(when it is in fact growing every 80 days or so)
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10:41<frosch123>no, looks like it does not mask TOWN_GROW_RATE_CUSTOM
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>Hazzard: it is common practice to have folders inside tars
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>Hazzard: some people get really mad if this is violated :)
10:42<Knogle>frosch123: what does that mean? hehe
10:42<frosch123>bug in ottd
10:43<frosch123>but looking at the function, there seem to be about 2 or 3 of them
10:44<Knogle>is there a work around?
10:44<frosch123>you might try to multiple it with 74, divide it by 70, and subtract 32768
10:44<frosch123>:p
10:44<Knogle>interesting numbers :P
10:45<Knogle>did you make them up? lol
10:45<frosch123>but actually, i think you should rather wait for a fix :p
10:45<frosch123>nope
10:45<Knogle>that would require an update, and I have no idea when next stable is released :P
10:45<+glx>the answer is easy :
10:46<+glx>when it's done
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>Knogle: 74 is the number of ticks per day, and 32768 is 2^15. i have no idea what 70 is, though
10:46<Knogle>exactly
10:46<Knogle>Eddi|zuHause: Okay.
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10:48<Knogle>Thanks a lot guys, I'll give it a try :)
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10:52<frosch123>it turned out to be only one bug :)
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10:53<Knogle>when it's not growing it returns -1676, don't know if its supposed to do so
10:54<CIA-17>OpenTTD: frosch * r24302 /trunk/src/script/api/script_town.cpp: -Fix: [Script] ScriptTown::GetGrowthRate() returned wrong values after usage of SetGrowthRate().
10:57<Knogle>neat
10:57<frosch123>can you please check the nightly in 3 hours whether it works then :)
10:58<Knogle>sure
10:58<Knogle>thanks ;)
10:58<frosch123>thanks as well :)
10:59<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: 70 is the size of the town array in original ttd :p
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>interesting :)
11:00<Knogle>what will GetGrowthRate return if the town isn't growing?
11:00<Knogle>the same?
11:00<frosch123>maybe 0
11:00*Knogle tests
11:01<Knogle>GR: 222
11:01<Knogle>guess not
11:01<Knogle>so there isn't a way to check if a town is growing or not, it seems.
11:05<frosch123>actually i think towns always grow, unless there are food/water restrictions
11:05<frosch123>or it is disabled in adv. settings
11:05<Knogle>there is food/water restrictions
11:05<Knogle>and the town GUI says "Town is not growing"
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>how is that anyway, large value of growth rate means the town grows slower?
11:06<Knogle>yes
11:06<frosch123>oh, i guess GetGrowthRate just returned the rate the last time the town grew
11:06<Knogle>GR 1 means a new house every 1 day
11:06<Knogle>afaik
11:06<frosch123>it cannot handle the "town does not grow" case
11:06<Knogle>too bad, I need to return "Town growing: yes/no"
11:06<Knogle>oh well
11:08<frosch123>btw. you cannot rely on GetGrowthRate returning the value set in SetGrowthRate
11:08<frosch123>there is some stupid rounding due to the * 70 / 74 conversion :s
11:09<Knogle>need a GSTown.IsGrowing(town) that return true or false :P
11:10<Knogle>thanks for the info frosch123 ;)
11:10<frosch123>well, i would think it would become a special result of GetGrowthRate in any case
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12:56<@Terkhen>hello
12:58<telanus>olla
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13:44<Wolf01>'evenink
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: translators * r24303 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt czech.txt estonian.txt spanish.txt):
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: czech - 32 changes by RabbRubbish
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: estonian - 10 changes by KSiimson
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
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13:54<Sacro>\o/
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15:12<tonidell2002>hello
15:12<tonidell2002>i have problem with my game
15:13<tonidell2002>the inteligents not work
15:13<tonidell2002>why?
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15:16<@Alberth>because computers are stupid and you are too fast
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15:27<@Terkhen>:P
15:31<frosch123>where is darth vader when you need him?
15:31<frosch123>i need to get rid of some obiwan
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15:32<Eddi|zuHause>he'll come back as a ghost
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16:32<Zuu>Apart from Basic Tutorial, has there yet been any scenario designed that also comes with a special GS that invokes events etc.?
16:33<Zuu>Or are all GS authors too good at writing generic code so that they are not interested in writing code for a specific scenario? and most scenario creators have no clue about GS?
16:34<@Terkhen>I think that they are creating only generic code
16:35<@Terkhen>GS is still not widespread so I doubt that scenario creators know what it cand o
16:35<@Terkhen>can do*
16:35<Zuu>Hmm, there could be a general purpose GS aimed to supply scenario creators with some basic event mechanisms. To declare events, they put signs at the ground. Eg: build industry type 5 at this tile in year 1975. (but written more dense to fit at 31 chars)
16:36<Zuu>Of course the GS will scan the signs at the start of the scenario and remove them so that players will not see them.
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16:37<Zuu>A bit like TileLabels GS library, but with added posibilties.
16:37<Zuu>Something that scenario developes who can't program could probably still figure out how to use.
16:38<@Terkhen>while writing the scenario specs I wondered about GS
16:38<@Terkhen>there can only be one GS active at a time, true?
16:38<Zuu>Yes, that is true
16:38<@Terkhen>that's problematic :P
16:39<Zuu>At the creation time of GS, some have predicted that we'll see GS packs that combine serveral GSs.
16:39<Zuu>However, so far we have yet to see the first GS pack.
16:39<@Terkhen>scenarios could have a "recommended GS" field
16:39<Zuu>SCP Lib has at least been designed with GS packs in mind.
16:39<__ln__>good news to Terkhen, Wolf01, Sacro, and others: a route planning service for your country is now online: http://orbis.stanford.edu/
16:39<@Terkhen>it's not something that I would add until everything else is done, though
16:40<@Terkhen>__ln__: thanks, I'll use it the next time I go back in time
16:41<Zuu>Terkhen: Sounds wise. It's probably doable at the end, and no use to waste time on it before the other parts are sorted out.
16:41<@Terkhen>Zuu: yes :)
16:42<@Terkhen>if it were possible to have more than one, it would be possible to recommend a simple GS script that would take care of ancillary scenario stuff like opening/closing industries and the like
16:43<@Terkhen>and then let the user add another GS that would take care of the economy and stuff like that
16:44<@Terkhen>but this is something for when the thing itself is done :P
16:44<@Terkhen>for now, sleep
16:44<@Terkhen>good night
16:45<@Alberth>good night Terkhen
16:45<Zuu>I think TrueBrain left the door half-closed on the matter of allowing several GSs. Others have so far not opened up for that posibility. Not having multiple GSs remove the posibility that they would conflct and move the burden of merging them to the GS authors, which I'm sure is useful for an OpenTTD developer. :-)
16:46<@Alberth>we are just worried you run out of work :p
16:47<Zuu>hehe, no need to worry. I will come up with some other ideas then :-)
16:47<@Alberth>but indeed, that is a big one to figure out how to handle
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16:49<Knogle>I'm trying to make a citybuilder game, but GS lacks features to do that :|
16:49<Zuu>what are you missing?
16:50<Knogle>an easy way to block someone from building an HQ in the same town as someone else (you claim a town by building your hq in it)
16:50<Knogle>and uhm, a way to tell if a town is growing or not
16:50<Knogle>:P
16:51<Knogle>and ability to remove the default food and water requirements for desert towns in the subtropical temperate
16:51<Knogle>and a lot of other things, I just can't think of right now.
16:51<Knogle>oh, and generate maps with a water tower in every town.
16:52<Zuu>Look into "neighbours are important". There is a guy that has been working on a improved version of it that will display custom content to the town window to show which nearby towns that are considered as neighbours.
16:52<Knogle>I have seen it, and "stolen" ideas from it ;)
16:52<Zuu>I don't think his work is public yet, but I've seen it working on his private server, so it is posible to do.
16:53<Zuu>I hope you publish your stolen ideas as a script on bananas when you are done :-)
16:53<Knogle>if I ever get it to work, yes.
16:54<Zuu>Regarding the HQ issue, you can't declare tiles that a company can't build a HQ at, but you can move it away if it is found at an illegal place.
16:55<Zuu>GSCompanyMode and then GSCompany.BuildCompanyHQ should do it.
16:55<Knogle>I know, not very useful tho
16:55<Zuu>Use GSTown.SetText(..) to add custom text to the town window.
16:55<Knogle>would have to figure where to move it
16:56<Knogle>I don't need to add custom text to the town GUI though
16:56<Knogle>:)
16:57<Zuu>Knogle> and ability to remove the default food and water requirements for desert towns in the subtropical temperate <--- have you checkd if there is a feature request for this at bugs.openttd.org? If not, try to generalize your idea and make a feature request there in the game script category.
16:58<Knogle>no I haven't
16:58<Knogle>perhaps I should
16:59<Knogle>;)
16:59<Zuu>If ideas like these are not collected in a place where they don't get lost, it will lower the chance that they ever get implemented.
17:00<Knogle>guess you're right ;)
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17:04<frosch123>Zuu: consider the requirements of desert town newgrf imposed
17:04<frosch123>a gamescript cannot control everything
17:04<frosch123>there are also other things which want to control stuff
17:04<frosch123>as such, a gs which removes food and water requirements makes no sense
17:05<frosch123>just play in temperate then
17:05<Zuu>Knogle: ^
17:05<frosch123>if you do not like newgrfs, you can also think of two gs :p
17:06<frosch123>if one gs want that a town needs food, another gs cannot remove that requirement, it can only add more requirements
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17:07<Zuu>Though, a GS can lower the cargo requirement value to zero (or close to zero) if it wishes.
17:07<Knogle>as such, a gs which removes food and water requirements makes no sense <- I disagree, if you want to make your own requirements, eg. small towns only needs passengers to grow, then later it'll need water and food.
17:07<frosch123>other than that, i guess at some point we need some save-like gs function which is called at any point and then has a few operations to check the execution of a command
17:08<frosch123>Knogle: you assume your gs is alone, which is just a false assumption
17:08<Knogle>what?
17:09<frosch123>different thing in ottd are controlled by multiple things, the gs is not alone
17:11<Knogle>I never said it was, I just stated what I'd like to do with gs
17:11<frosch123>anyway, i think you can even remove the food and water requirements by setting them to 0
17:12<Knogle>;)
17:12<Knogle>I'm off to bed, goodnight folks.
17:13<frosch123>also night
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18:23<Wolf01>'night
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