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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-05-31

---Logopened Thu May 31 00:00:59 2012
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01:35<Silvanti>Amazing game guys :P Just thought I'd say that.
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07:39<Hazzard>Hello
07:40<Hazzard>Is there anywhere I can see the actuall tile sizes (hitboxes if you will) for the TTD landscape?
07:44<frosch123>set newgrf_developer_tools 1
07:44<frosch123>ctrl+b
07:44<frosch123>that's the only thing we have, not sure what you want though :)
07:51<Hazzard>Hmm, that doesnt seem to do anything
07:51<frosch123>http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Debugging <- make sure to activate the newgrf developer tools
07:53<Hazzard>Thats not quite what I need
07:53<frosch123>did you ctrl+b?
07:53<Hazzard>I want something like the landscape tiles
07:53<Hazzard>yes
07:53<frosch123>it's not listed on that page
07:53<frosch123>no idea then
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08:09<Hazzard>I want something that shows 1 blank ground tile, something like this
08:09<Hazzard>http://i.imgur.com/8pcSU.png
08:09<frosch123>what do you want to do with that?
08:10<Hazzard>except where you can actually tell where the edges are
08:10<@planetmaker>uhm... the tiles have quite clear edges by default, no?
08:10<Hazzard>I want to make an object
08:10<Hazzard>I need an isolated tile
08:11<@planetmaker>still not clear why...
08:11<frosch123>maybe you mean transparency options?
08:11<frosch123>setting everything to invisible
08:12<Hazzard>No
08:13<Hazzard>I just need the size and shape of one isolated sloped tile so I know the size to draw
08:13<frosch123>then check out opengfx source
08:13<frosch123>and use the source sprites
08:14<frosch123>or use the in-game sprite aligner and make a screenshot with ctrl+s
08:14<@planetmaker>yup ^^
08:15<Hazzard>What is this in-game sprite aligner?
08:15<frosch123>http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Debugging :)
08:16<frosch123>click "pick" and then click anywhere on the landscape where your desired slope is
08:16<Hazzard>ah, silly me
08:16<@planetmaker>or look http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:List_of_tile_slopes
08:17<Hazzard>Thanks
08:23<Hazzard>Also, do any of you know of a good dam GRF for openttd?
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08:30<Hazzard>brb
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08:48<@planetmaker>hm, can someone test / confirm: hysteresis when zooming in and out again multiple times. For me the visible viewport moves to tiles further North ever so slowly (half a tile per iteration)
08:59<@Belugas>hello
09:24<Knogle>planetmaker: same happens here.
09:24<@planetmaker>thanks
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09:50<frosch123>planetmaker: sounds like rounding-issue
09:51<@planetmaker>yes, probably. But I wanted to know whether general or OSX ;-)
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10:03<__ln__>http://imgur.com/gallery/Wm7tg
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10:16<frosch123>post that in the 32bpp thread as a good shadow example :p
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10:26<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't a rounding issue resolve itself after the second try (idempotence)?
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>so it sounds rather like this obiwan guy popped up again...
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10:47<supermop>hi
10:51<NGC3982>__ln__: oh dang.
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11:48<andythenorth>send a tent into space? Why not
11:48<andythenorth>http://www.youtube.com/user/vangotents
11:49<andythenorth>[andythenorth was involved tangentially]
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>your ass was involved?
11:50<Rubidium>Brittish taxpayer?
11:51<frosch>ah, 1.0 < 1.1 < beaufort < centaur, wasn't it obvious?
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12:19<frosch>would anyone notice if the "set all news message types to: off / summary / full" would be gone?
12:21<Sacro>yes
12:21<Sacro>now you've told me
12:21<frosch>ok, would you mind it missing? :p
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12:58<@Terkhen>hello
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13:03*andythenorth ponders monsieur bird
13:03<andythenorth>ou est il?
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13:04*andythenorth has been pondering BANDIT scale
13:05<andythenorth>pikka favours small
13:05*andythenorth ponders this http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=182391&nseq=27
13:20*andythenorth ponders
13:20<andythenorth>doing 'farms' as towns
13:21<andythenorth>is not the most insane idea ever ever
13:21<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=61150
13:21<frosch>they are driving on the wrong side of the road
13:21<andythenorth>so is everyone else, it's ok
13:21-!-Nat_AFK is now known as Nat_aS
13:21<andythenorth>as long as they all do it at once, all is well
13:22<andythenorth>'farms as towns' could provide for farm clusters with lots of different outputs
13:22<andythenorth>'chicken shed'
13:22<andythenorth>'milking parlour'
13:22<andythenorth>etc
13:22<andythenorth>how complete is town control? Can I make produced cargo for a building depend on delivered cargo?
13:22<andythenorth>(to the town)
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13:26<@Terkhen>playing with town storage, maybe
13:26<@Terkhen>but that would drive GS crazy :P
13:26<@Terkhen>hi Alberth
13:27<@Alberth>hi hi
13:27*andythenorth [shrug] wrt GS
13:27<Nat_aS>so an industry with no centralized pickup point
13:27<Nat_aS>that might be anoying
13:27<andythenorth>not an industry
13:27<andythenorth>a cluster of tiles that produce
13:27<Nat_aS>it can be bad enough nailing down goods dropoffs in med size towns
13:28<Nat_aS>yeah, a cluster of tiles that produce can be a pain to nail down and pickup
13:29<Nat_aS>PAX is okay because you can usualy get enough passingers from a quarter of the town, and towns will eventualy grow out around the station over time
13:29<Nat_aS>but delivering goods to a medium sized town that's still growing can be a pain, sometimes redevelopment causes a station to STOP accepting goods
13:29<Nat_aS>now imagine if instead of accepting goods, it's producing grain
13:30<Nat_aS>Industries should have centralized pickup points
13:30<Nat_aS>heck, I think goods and food should be delivered to a specific "Store" industry that forms in towns
13:31<andythenorth>you know an industry is just a group of tiles right?
13:31<andythenorth>so no different to a cluster of tiles
13:31<Nat_aS>that's irrelivent
13:32<andythenorth>I'm not proposing individual field tiles that all have to be covered ;)
13:32<Nat_aS>it's a cluster of tiles that stays put
13:32<Nat_aS>oh
13:32<Nat_aS>I was thinking they would work like houses
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13:32<Nat_aS>which get rebuilt
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13:32<andythenorth>there would be something like a 2x2 building for 'grain silo'
13:32<andythenorth>and 2x2 for 'milking parlour'
13:33<andythenorth>and they would have output in the range of 100s of units
13:33<Nat_aS>Hmm, so would the production be dependent on the fields, and the cargo be delivered from the silo?
13:33<Nat_aS>and would fund new buildings also make more fields?
13:33<andythenorth>no dependency on the fields
13:33<Nat_aS>oh
13:33<andythenorth>'fields' are not really a thing
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13:34<Nat_aS>well you said fields would be like houses
13:34<andythenorth>I missed the bit where I said that
13:34<Nat_aS>that's how I understood it
13:34<Nat_aS>:P
13:34<andythenorth>frosch: remember the idea of plantable objects?
13:35<frosch>i did not put the stuff on the wiki yet
13:35<frosch>like so much :)
13:37<Nat_aS>well I like the idea of industries being larger, not one huge building, but having several satilite buildings which can be destroyed and will be rebuilt
13:37<Nat_aS>so they wont get in the way
13:37<Nat_aS>and look pretty
13:37<Nat_aS>also, things effecting production other than random numbers
13:38<andythenorth>frosch: I've been thinking about farms incorrectly.
13:38<andythenorth>A grain farm should be a small industry - grain silo - surrounded by lots of farmhouses planted as objects
13:38<Nat_aS>tropic lumber mills are a good idea, although in practice they just make huge square holes in the map you have to fix every year
13:38<andythenorth>the grain silo production would be hundreds or thousands of tons
13:39<frosch>andythenorth: so you want to eliminate feeders, and make rv completely pointless? is that strategy somewhat related to bandit? i.e. not having to do it? :p
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13:41<Nat_aS>Herp
13:41<Nat_aS>but HEQS is better for feeders
13:42<Nat_aS>I want BANDIT for distributing goods and food to towns
13:42<Nat_aS>:P
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13:42<Nat_aS>well anyways, I like the idea of farm decorations being objects with one small thing in the middle
13:43<Nat_aS>I think it could apply to any industry
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13:43<Nat_aS>although it would be cool if the amount of objects determined the production
13:43<Nat_aS>if you crowd out an industry, it wont produce as much
13:43<Nat_aS>maybe as time goes on, the objects could be upgraded, allowing a visual representation of production increase.
13:45<andythenorth>milk would still be picked up from individual farms
13:45<andythenorth>livestock from a centralised cattle market
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: translators * r24304 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt german.txt lithuanian.txt swedish.txt):
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: czech - 6 changes by RabbRubbish
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: german - 41 changes by Jogio, NG, planetmaker
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 1 changes by Stabilitronas
13:45<CIA-17>OpenTTD: swedish - 9 changes by Joel_A
13:45<andythenorth>fruit would be collected from a packhouse
13:45<andythenorth>sugar beet / cane from farms
13:46<andythenorth>plant fibres, from farms
13:46<andythenorth>wool....from farms
13:46<andythenorth>this would make farms more interesting I think
13:46<andythenorth>maybe
13:46<andythenorth>dunno
13:46*andythenorth finds farms quite boring to play with
13:47<andythenorth>basically iron ore + coal -> steel mill and wood -> sawmill are the only interesting industries :P
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13:47<andythenorth>everything else is kind of 'blearch'
13:47<andythenorth>it doesn't help that farms are broken in FIRS
13:48<Nat_aS>i like it when farms are clustered
13:48<andythenorth>they're not currently
13:48<Nat_aS>so I have an excuse to put a station at the town, and then feeders to the farms
13:48<Nat_aS>using HEQS tractors
13:48<Nat_aS>also, when mines are clustered up in mountians
13:48<andythenorth>farms are silly
13:48<Nat_aS>so I have HEQS trucks to haul ore down to the station
13:48<Nat_aS>the only thing I don't have
13:49<andythenorth>farms end up with so much transport infrastructure around them, it's insane
13:49<Nat_aS>is a nice semi-truck to haul goods from the station to markets in town
13:49<Nat_aS>:P
13:49<andythenorth>farms end up surrounded by tracks and roads and canals
13:49<andythenorth>a 1 tile station for dropping farm supplies
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13:49<andythenorth>then 1-10 tiles for each produced cargo
13:49<andythenorth>plus waiting areas, loops, depots
13:49<andythenorth>it's stupid :P
13:50<@Alberth>reduce production if the fields are used for laying tracks/roads :p
13:51<Nat_aS>HEY
13:52<Nat_aS>what if sawmills replanted the trees they cut down!
13:52<Nat_aS>they would cut down trees and replace them with logging machinery and stump objects
13:52<Nat_aS>and they would do it in sections
13:52<Nat_aS>and then when one section is done, they would move on to the next sectin
13:52<Nat_aS>and replant trees in the other
13:53<andythenorth>who does that? Pikka? OpenGFX+
13:53<andythenorth>someone?
13:53<Nat_aS>instead of just cutting a huge chunk out of the map
13:53<andythenorth>one of the industry grfs has a tree cutting phase
13:53<andythenorth>or maybe original forest
13:54<andythenorth>is GS of any use yet?
13:54<andythenorth>i.e. can I play it in single player, for an interesting game?
13:54<Nat_aS>yes, but that's a single object
13:55<Nat_aS>I like the fact that tropic mills are a small building that influences a large area
13:55<Nat_aS>like your idea for farms
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14:20<frosch>hmm, i am configuring ais not often enough
14:21<frosch>i have quite some difficulties using the gui on arabic
14:21<@Alberth>:)
14:22<frosch>usually i have no problem with the rest of ottd :)
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14:25<Zuu>andythenorth: There ore two more developed GS that are useful in single player.
14:25<@Alberth>frosch: so it cannot be the difficulty of reading arabic ;)
14:25<Zuu>CityDomination and Neighbours are important
14:26<frosch>Alberth: looks like the average handwriting
14:27<@Alberth>I wish I had that nice handwriting :)
14:38<Knogle>heh
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15:16<Nat_aS>[11:59] <Brot6> bandit: compile of r489 still failed (#3900) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/bandit/nightlies/ERROR/r489 ;_;
15:19<@Terkhen>error: andy's muse not found
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15:33<Nat_aS>lol
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16:48<CIA-17>OpenTTD: rubidium * r24305 /branches/1.2/ (8 files in 5 dirs):
16:48<CIA-17>OpenTTD: [1.2] -Backport from trunk:
16:48<CIA-17>OpenTTD: - Fix: [Script] ScriptTown::GetGrowthRate() returned wrong values after usage of SetGrowthRate() (r24302)
16:48<CIA-17>OpenTTD: [1.2] -Update: documentation
16:54<CIA-17>OpenTTD: rubidium * r24306 /tags/1.2.1/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Release: 1.2.1
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17:18<@Terkhen>good night
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17:38<Rubidium>blathijs & heffer & Ammler: new release tarballs have arrived
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17:41<frosch>@topic set 1 1.2.1
17:41-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.2.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever | English only
17:41<frosch>that's the easy part :s
17:43<Ammler>Rubidium: the download button at openttd.org still shows 1.2.0
17:44<Rubidium>Ammler: I reckon that's some cache in the website
17:44<Rubidium>the finger file is good, so the website should in the near future show the right thing
17:45<Rubidium>like now
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17:51<frosch>the harder part is also done :)
17:51<frosch>now comes the boring part
17:51<+glx>the news ?
17:51<frosch>the news is the hard part
17:52<frosch>the boring part is positing the same thingie on the forums to get the same boring replies by the same guys as everytime :p
17:54<frosch>though i am always happy when my broweser autocompletes the thread topic, as if i am not posting anything else :üp
17:55<frosch>i hope i win an awkward-ness price for the news though :)
17:55<frosch>s/awkward/weird/
17:56<frosch>always confuse those
17:56<frosch>since i know awk
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18:10<NataS>Hmm
18:10<NataS>asside from horns and bells, Trains in OTTD are really quiet
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18:10<NataS>no Chugachughachuga sounds
18:10<NataS>is it possible to add train running SFX?
18:11<NataS>Idealy they would only play at the lower zoom levels
18:11<frosch>try nars2
18:12<NataS>is that a grf or a sound pack?
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18:12<frosch>a grf
18:17<+glx>UKRS has running sounds too
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18:47<frosch>night
18:47<Adrian>I'm playing OpenTTD with the normal trainset. Sometime around ~1985 the rail passenger carriages disappear from the list (probably displaced by arrival of a new locomotive). Is this a known bug?
18:48<Adrian>i.e. i can't build passenger cars anymore, nor clone existing trains.
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19:10<NataS>do you have any other grfs on?
19:10<NataS>and have you removed grfs from the game in progress?
19:10<NataS>because that has been known to cause that.
19:12<Adrian>yes, i have 2 more sets. av8 aircraft and different bridges. i guess that answers my question. bummer, i don't feel like starting over. gotta hope the later rail systems give me back passenger cars.
19:14<NataS>well unless you removed trainsets at one point, it usualy wont cause a problem
19:14<NataS>but removing newgrfs from games in progress can corrupt a game in ways that might not immediately be obvious.
19:15<NataS>things go fine for a while, then cars start droping off the list
19:15<Adrian>i see. thanks.
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20:57<NataS>are there any trainsets that are like Tropic set, only better?
20:57<NataS>Tropic set has a lot of cool trains, but it lacks a lot of important niches.
20:57<NataS>and it's rolling stock is lame, just refit the same boxcar for everything
20:58<NataS>and upgrade all cars ever 20 years because fuck you that's why.
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21:49<MinchinWeb>I'm running Linux and my AI won't load; how do I get the list of errors?
21:50<MinchinWeb>on Windows I can use "openttd.exe -d ai=5"...
21:53<+glx>same on linux
21:55<MinchinWeb>it starts the game, but the only output to the console is "Unknown debug level 'ai=5'"
21:57<MinchinWeb>seems you have to use 'misc' rather than 'ai'
21:59-!-Elu [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
22:00<MinchinWeb>...maybe not; that just lists the files as it find them, but not why it won't load them
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---Logclosed Fri Jun 01 00:01:00 2012