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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-06-05

---Logopened Tue Jun 05 00:00:07 2012
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01:48<NGC3982>Mazur: hehe
01:49<NGC3982>Rubidium: "at speed" (while honking at unattended crossings) is not relevant here i sweden, at least. they honk never the less.
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02:37<__ln__>seulement anglais
03:42<andythenorth>hth do I cross branches when I'm the only one committing to the repo?
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04:10<@planetmaker>andythenorth: first update to the branch you want to commit to: hg up -C branchname
04:10<@planetmaker>(you loose all changes! make a diff, if needed)
04:15<andythenorth>how did I get branches?
04:15<andythenorth>if I commit from somewhere other than repo root, do I get a branch?
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05:00<Ammler>as sson as your parent isn't tip
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05:08<andythenorth>perhaps because I rolled back?
05:09*andythenorth is reading console log to see what happened for those revs
05:09<Ammler>I would guess, you updated to the release to build it
05:10<andythenorth>I added, rolled back to remove a file I didn't want to add, added a specific path, then modified .hgignore and then committed
05:10<andythenorth>which gave me a branch
05:11<Ammler>no clue, you are a wizzard with your repos :-)
05:11<andythenorth>prior to that I had a failed push
05:11<andythenorth>maybe hg is buggy
05:11<andythenorth>or maybe I am buggy
05:11<Ammler>only you :-P
05:12<andythenorth>I could paste my console if you wish :P
05:12<andythenorth>feel free to try and debug :P
05:12<andythenorth>perhaps you have better things to do ;)
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05:19<Ammler>he, you insist in not having done human failure?
05:20<andythenorth>not as far as I can see
05:20<andythenorth>I know most of the bad things to do now :P
05:21<andythenorth>anyway, it's fixed with a merge :)
05:22<Ammler>you have something like a graphiclog?
05:22<Ammler>like the alias I once posted, it is very helpful for such things
05:22<Ammler>also of course, always pull before commit
05:23<andythenorth>not pulling is probably the trigger for the issue this time
05:23<Ammler>well, I made a alias "slog" to have that in shotview
05:23<andythenorth>somehow the remote repo was at r533 while my local repo was at r532
05:24<Ammler>and overall, you made no mistake, the repo is completely fine, merging is part of dedicated vcs
05:24<Ammler>that is also the reason, you can merge with hg, while on svn this is upper complicated
05:27<Ammler>that is from my alias
05:27<Ammler>slog = glog -l10 --template "{branch}\t{rev}:{node|short}|{author|person} {desc|firstline}\n"
05:28<andythenorth>k thanks
05:44<andythenorth>due to the compression of / and \ views, small trucks look very silly :)
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06:17<Eddi|zuHause>but... shouldn't "not pulling" give you an error, instead of silently creating a branch?
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>(i mean: you notice this on push)
06:20*NGC3982 just made some openttd music
06:20<NGC3982>i noticed the gameplay needs a jazzy tune to play along
06:20<NGC3982>i guess i should make a forum post or something
06:20<NGC3982>never actually been to the forums :E
06:28<Eddi|zuHause>put it in the openmsx thread
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06:35<NGC3982>well, my music is not midi
06:36<NGC3982>and not really intended to replace anything that's already there.
06:36<NGC3982>oh, wait, according to the wiki, it's all about new music too
06:36<NGC3982>ill try it. :)
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07:40<drac_boy>hi andythenorth hows FIRS going so far?
07:40<andythenorth>over the last 3.5 years?
07:41<andythenorth>or just recently?
07:41<drac_boy>recently :)
07:41<andythenorth>it's on schedule ;)
07:44<drac_boy>heh :p
07:46<frosch123>andythenorth: it's a bit weird to list a cargolabel in the specs which is not present in a final grf
07:46<frosch123>why don't you use something like "----" to make sure to use something that noone else uses?
07:51<andythenorth>frosch123: I could use "____" :P
07:51<andythenorth>nml won't accept ----
07:52<andythenorth>I don't mind adjusting it
07:52<frosch123>nml? how does that label make it into nml?
07:52<andythenorth>it's used as an identifier in switches
07:52<andythenorth>[local issue to my code]
07:52<frosch123>i thought the label is something in the intermediate processing, but not in the final grf
07:53<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: nml should accept "----" (with quotes)
07:54<andythenorth>quotes inside the identifier?
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>if it's composed into a larger identifier, then not
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>i meant any place that accepts a cargo label
07:55<andythenorth>this is a piece of pure madness I dreamt up for use in switches
07:56<andythenorth>probably best not discussed :P
07:56<andythenorth>works though
07:57*andythenorth wonders if **** will work
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07:59<andythenorth>4/8 truck with 2/8 long body definitely looks odd
07:59<andythenorth>because the body is 3/8 wide :P
07:59<andythenorth>bigger trucks?
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08:18<andythenorth>pikka's 5t wagons are 2/8 long :|
08:18<andythenorth>this 5t truck should also have a 2/8 body
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>i would not worry too much about such things
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>2/8 sounds a little too short, imho
08:25<andythenorth>I could make the body not as high
08:25<andythenorth>and I could use a 1/8 long cab
08:25<andythenorth>which might make the overall proportion appear better
08:27<andythenorth>I prefer this 3/8 body though
08:27<andythenorth>looks more like 10t capacity than 5t :P
08:27<andythenorth>maybe 5t trucks are just smaller overall, as in RL :P
08:28<andythenorth>this is the cab from a full size class 8 truck
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08:38<andythenorth>Pikka has truck I use in HEQS with 2t capacity
08:39<andythenorth>which is actually in scale with those 3/8 trucks if they were ~5t
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08:54*telanus1 like these types of trucks:
08:55<andythenorth>telanus1: if I can be bothered to figure out the compositing, there'll be trucks like that
08:55<andythenorth>that's a B-trailer
08:55<andythenorth>so that would be 7/8 long, with a 5/8 body
08:55<andythenorth>followed by a standard A-trailer
08:56<andythenorth>I won't bother doing the lift axles at TTD-scale :P
08:56<andythenorth>that's more of an extra-zoom thing :P
08:56<telanus1>here we call those Interlink trucks
08:57*andythenorth googles
09:03<andythenorth>that's a big grf
09:04<andythenorth>or you've downloaded the 237KiB very many times :P
09:05<Hazzard>for some reason I don't think that is supposed to happen
09:10<telanus1>Andythenorth: you could try this:
09:11<telanus1>Fuel and livestock dual-purpose tanker
09:11<andythenorth>telanus1: looks well engineered
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09:19<V453000>that is not a cow.
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09:34<NGC3982>are you sure?
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09:42<NGC3982>Hazzard: hah.
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09:43<NGC3982>Hazzard: did it actually download 3GB?
09:46<Hazzard>NGC3982: It's happened to me a couple times
09:47<NGC3982>ah, i see.
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11:16<kopf>heyyo, is there any way of fixing the slow mouse movement in openttd on Windows apart from running the game full screen?
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>what slow mouse movement?
11:20<kopf>the mouse cursor moves as if it's bogged down
11:20<kopf>in full screen, it moves exactly as fast as the normal windows mouse cursor
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>also when you pause the game?
11:22<kopf>haven't tried that, but yes, I presume so, as it's present even on the main menu
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>did you try updating to 1.2.1?
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11:23<kopf>not yet, no. I'm on 1.2.0 at the moment, and will do later on
11:23<kopf>I thought this was a well-known issue, though, since this exists -
11:24<kopf>(of course this fix only works for *nix systems)
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>that FAQ entry is probably totally unrelated
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>there were some general fixes with sluggish game behaviour in 1.2.1
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>so you should definitely try that
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11:27<andythenorth>NewShips on bananas :O
11:28*andythenorth suspects that's naughty
11:31<kopf>Eddi|zuHause: ok will do
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12:23<andythenorth>articulated RVs have severe overlap issues in depot view
12:23<andythenorth>wonder why that is :P
12:23<andythenorth>heqs doesn't do it
12:24<andythenorth>ho, BANDIT trucks also do it whilst driving
12:24<andythenorth>offsets must be wrong :P
12:28<andythenorth>how droll
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12:39<andythenorth>ctl-b - the bounding boxes for vehicles don't adjust to actual size?
12:40<andythenorth>for buildings they somewhat do
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>in 1.2.x, they adjust to vehicle length
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>before they were constant size
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12:47<Eddi|zuHause>width and height are still constant
12:49<kopf>Eddi|zuHause: Hi, installed 1.2.1 there, and the mouse movement problem persists
12:49<andythenorth>where did I get these nml spritesheets from? :P
12:49<andythenorth>I can't find them in the wiki
12:50<andythenorth>pikka's are different :)
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>kopf: sorry, then i'm out of ideas
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: opengfx-whatever?
12:50<andythenorth>I think they're in the tutorial somewhere, can't find them :P
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: or foobar?
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12:50<andythenorth>yup, they're foobar's
12:50<andythenorth>not convinced the offsets work
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: use mine, and leave out the slanted views :)
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: make sure you use the 32px templates, not the 28px ones
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>(those two lines are unrelated)
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12:53<andythenorth>I'm now somewhat committed to the ones I have
12:53<andythenorth>due to the way pixel generation works :P
12:53<andythenorth>so I'll fix the offsets for those :)
12:53<andythenorth>I could add another layer of abstraction of course
12:54<andythenorth>but I feel like I have enough. I'll have to start paying tax on them if I add another
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12:55<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you could at least look at my offsets and compare
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>note that my vehicles overlap by 1 pixel
12:55<andythenorth>good idea
12:56<kopf>Also, I put all my .gm files from transport tycoon deluxe in a new directory called "gm" in c:\program files\openttd, but I can't see any of the original transport tycoon music in the jukebox
12:56<kopf>What else do I need to do?
12:57<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: so template_3_8bpp_normal for 3/8 length?
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>the offsets you can find only in the generated nml/nfo
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>they are preprocessed by some convoluted formulas which are probably evil :)
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>kopf: in game settings, you need to select the music set
12:59<kopf>thanks :)
13:00<kopf>oh fuck yes
13:00<kopf>nostalgia overload
13:07<andythenorth>12.1MB of nfo :P
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if you know a vehicle of the desired length, you can find the offets by searching for "<comp>_<ident>_0set"
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: or generally search for "_0set" until you find a template of the right length
13:12<andythenorth>found some
13:12<andythenorth>offsets are quite different to the ones I have
13:12<andythenorth>trains vs. RVs?
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>shouldn't be
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>but my sprites have a larger margin on the top
13:12<andythenorth>let's try yours
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>so if you reduce sprite height, you need to reduce the offset by the same amount
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>make sure you don't use the slice_set, gui_set or left/right_sets
13:14-!-Nat_AFK is now known as Nat_aS
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>or actually, the 0gui_set may be the best one
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>but not 1gui_set or 2gui_set
13:19<andythenorth>your crop is quite a lot larger than mine :)
13:20*andythenorth figures out how to do this
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r24326 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: afrikaans - 11 changes by telanus
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 7 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 5 changes by Jogio
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: greek - 183 changes by kyrm
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 4 changes by RunisLabs
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13:48<Wolf01>hi andy
13:49<Zuu>When a script run out of its 10 000 oopcodes, it is suspended. What should we call the state/action when a script has its execution paused? Eg. what will happen if you pause the execution of a game script.
13:49<andythenorth>lo Wolf01
13:49<Zuu>If suspended was not already taken, I would use that word.
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: why can't it both be called "suspended"?
13:50<Zuu>because that would be confusing?
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>if it's functionally the same thing, just triggered by different events?
13:51<andythenorth>semantically they're different?
13:52<andythenorth>Zuu: why not 'paused' ?
13:52<Zuu>A script is suspended short-term at every tick. What I try to achive is that (game) scripts can be suspended over longer time. The AI Debug window has a (hidden) feature to suspend an AI and then pause the game if a break condition is met. This 'hack' doen't work with game scripts anymore as they are executed also when the game is paused.
13:53<Zuu>Maybe paused will do untill I got a patch ready for review. A rename can happen then if the devs (eg. yexo) disagrees :-)
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14:04*andythenorth really hates setting up offsets :)
14:06<Knogle>Zuu: ever tried using regex in GS?
14:06<Zuu>Then you would probably first need to implement regex.
14:07<Zuu>Several af the "built in" libraries of standard Squirrel is not available in OpenTTD.
14:07<Knogle>aw :|
14:08<Zuu>Some math functions have been added though.
14:08<Zuu>But at the beginning, one had to imlement those as well. :-)
14:10<Knogle>I wish I knew how, could be really useful.
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>regex are really easy to program...
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>(as are most math functions)
14:12*Knogle shrugs
14:13*NGC3982 offers free massage.
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14:25<frosch123>hmm, why does the autoreplace gui distinguish between railtypes?
14:27<andythenorth>not convinced about these offsets
14:28<andythenorth>moving the vehicle to the front of the bounding box causes unpleasant things to happen
14:28<andythenorth>for reduced-length vehicles, is it correct to position the sprite at the front of the bounding box?
14:28<andythenorth>in other sets I have centred vehicles
14:29<frosch123>i think for >= 1 a vehicle should always fill a bb from front to back
14:29<andythenorth>that's how the nml offsets I have do it
14:29<frosch123>if you have space between vehicles, then likely centering is the best
14:29<frosch123>the center of the bb is the turning point for >= 1.2
14:29<andythenorth>filling from front causes the rotation point to be off center
14:29<frosch123>(also >= 1.2 above)
14:29<andythenorth>which makes for horrible rotation effects
14:31<andythenorth>would be handy if newgrf debug showed vehicle length
14:33<andythenorth>also wrt bounding boxes (ctrl-b view) "Eddi|zuHause: in 1.2.x, they adjust to vehicle length" <- not for me in ottd tip
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14:47<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: for centered vehicles, there are more variations needed for different vehicle lengths
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: putting the vehicles on the border means i can use the same calculation for all lengths
14:50<andythenorth>so how do you handle the horrible rotation effect?
14:50<andythenorth>I guess you have rotation handled differently :P
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>what rotation effect?
14:50<andythenorth>if the sprite doesn't rotate about the centre point it's visually quite odd
14:50-!-Nat_aS is now known as Nat_AFK
14:51<andythenorth>as though it's on the end of a pendulum
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>the vehicle always turns around its center point. the sprite offsets are irrelevant for that
14:52<andythenorth>must be a terminology difference
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>the center of the bounding box is the turning point
14:52<andythenorth>but we're not centering the graphics in the bounding box....?
14:52<andythenorth>I do in other sets, but it seems to not be the nml way
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>this has nothing to do with nml
14:53<andythenorth>nml / foobar templates /s
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>but we already started from "foobars offsets are wrong"... you're going in circles
14:55<andythenorth>my truck is also going in circles around a 3x3 loop of road :P
14:56<andythenorth>I'll centre them
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>code my template into a truck, and see if it turns better?
14:56<andythenorth>it's so different that I'd effectively be reworking it :)
14:57<andythenorth>I could set up a dummy grf with one of your spritesheets though
14:58<Zuu>Hmm, forgetting to initalize is_paused as false proved that my is_paused flag work :-)
14:59*Zuu is not really sure how to handle (auto) save if one or more scripts are paused
15:00<Zuu>One option is to still call the Save() function even if it is paused. The other option is to reject (auto) save.
15:01<Zuu>A third (bad) option is to still save the game, but not call Save() of the AI/script which will result in a broken save.
15:02<Zuu>Currently I think that I will ignore that the script is paused and just call Save during save.
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>only the first option can be sane
15:03<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I've mashed your offsets + graphics into BANDIT ;)
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: and does it move better?
15:04<andythenorth>YMMV, but for 3/8 view, it looks like the rotation point is about 8px behind the sprite....which it is :)
15:04<Knogle>Hmm... I have GSText(GSText.STR_HQCITY2, company) and in lang/english.txt is "STR_HQCITY2 :{COMPANY} Test" Any idea why it only returns "Test" ?
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: was the bounding box thing not ported to road vehicles?
15:05<andythenorth>non-centered graphics causes effects like the vehicle overlapping the opposite carriageway in corners
15:05*andythenorth tests CETS trains
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you sure you set the vehicle length correctly?
15:06<frosch123>oh, good question
15:06<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: not sure
15:06<andythenorth>I don't know how to tell
15:06<andythenorth>newgrf debug doesn't have it
15:06<andythenorth>I might have to go read nml again ;)
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: need "length: 3" in the properties
15:07<andythenorth>I'm using the cb, but I have the right lengths
15:07<andythenorth>I'm wondering if there's an nml bug, I recall that length was being changed at some point
15:07<andythenorth>nml bugs are not unknown :)
15:07*andythenorth tries the prop rather than cb
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: can also put "length: 3" in the callbacks :p
15:08<frosch123>at least the bb of rv is not affected by length
15:08<andythenorth>nml length prop is behaving same as length cb
15:09<andythenorth>so it either works completely, or not at all
15:09<frosch123>so, for rv it is still the same
15:09<andythenorth>I suspect nml length works, as trailers are changing position
15:11<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I tested, the CETS offsets look absolutely perfect for trains
15:11<andythenorth>and the bb does indeed change for trains
15:11<andythenorth>but you knew that :P
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>then you must port the train code to roadvehicles :p
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>i wonder whether there was any reason not to do this
15:13<andythenorth>nobody complained loudly? :0
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15:17<frosch123>andythenorth: just take a look at UpdateDeltaXY and enjoy it :p
15:18<andythenorth>from your tone, I suspect I may not :P
15:18<frosch123>lots of bit shifting, so for a nfo guy it should be fine :p
15:18<Zuu>Knogle: Do you have "Test" in some string?
15:18<andythenorth>frosch123: I'm nml now
15:19<andythenorth>I've deleted all bit shifting from my brain
15:19<Zuu>Oh, sorry now I see it's in your english.txt
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15:19<Zuu>Still, I wonder why it doesn't output the space before "Test".
15:19<Knogle>it might, its not easy to tell on the sign
15:21*andythenorth wonders where vehicle bb code is :P
15:21*andythenorth will learn how to grep after dinner
15:21<Zuu>Knogle: is your "company" variable a company id?
15:22<Knogle>no, its "Knogle Transport"
15:22<Zuu>It should be the ID of that company.
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15:23<Zuu>OpenTTD will get the name for you.
15:23<Zuu>that is why it says {COMPANY} and not eg. {STRING}.
15:23<Knogle>so if I use {STRING} it'll work with "Knogle Transport"
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15:28<Knogle>Guess not, just tested it, same result
15:35<Zuu>I don't know if {STRING} actually works.
15:36<Zuu>I think it is ment for nested GSText.STR_XYZ if I remember correctly.
15:36<Knogle>Doesn't work for me.
15:37<Zuu>The format is explained here:
15:37<Zuu>Its the same format as shared with the lang files of OpenTTD itself.
15:38<Zuu>{RAW_STRING} might be what you look for.
15:38<Zuu>But I'm not sure exactly.
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15:38<Zuu>If you know the ID of the company, you should pass that along.
15:39<Knogle>I don't
15:39<Zuu>If you need to make a debug sign of a string, just make the debug sign in english.
15:39<Zuu>You could loop over all companies until you find the company with the name you got.
15:40<andythenorth>frosch123: so am I correct to be looking at l390 in roadveh_cmd.cpp
15:40<Zuu>Anyway if you store the human readable name of a company in a sign, that is prone to fail if anyone renames his company.
15:41<Knogle>How would I get a list of all companies?
15:41<andythenorth>what is this a, b, c, d? x, y deltas for flat and sloped tiles?
15:41<andythenorth>per direction?
15:42<Zuu>Knogle: Loop from COMPANY_FIRST to COMPANY_LAST and check if the company is valid.
15:42<Zuu>eg. use ResolveCompanyID and check if the result is COMPANY_INVALID.
15:43<Zuu>You can see how this work in for example TransportGoals GS.
15:43<Knogle>I don't get it, there isn't exactly any GSCompanyList to loop through.
15:44<Knogle>I'll have a look.
15:45<Knogle>I get it now, thanks alot Zuu.
15:45<Zuu>You could implement your own GSCompanyList if you wish in pure squirrel.
15:46<Knogle>I guess so :)
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15:49<andythenorth>UpdateDeltaXY is quite different for trains :P
15:50<frosch123>for rv, you have a table at the top
15:50<frosch123>it is read at the bottom
15:51<frosch123>the reading at the bottom is basically in the reverse order of the stuff at the top
15:51<frosch123>so, ysize, xsize, yoffset, xoffset
15:51<andythenorth>oh, so a c, d are the extents
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15:52<andythenorth>train UpdateDeltaXY doesn't look very specific to trains, apart from the table
15:52<andythenorth>do I miss something :P
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16:00<andythenorth>frosch123: what effect will changing UpdateDeltaXY have on existing RV grfs?
16:01<frosch123>it will misalign everything, esp in corners
16:02<frosch123>noone knows how corners work
16:02<frosch123>since noone manager to figure out the length of roadvehicles in the past 2 years
16:02<andythenorth>corners are horrible
16:02<andythenorth>depending on drive side, it's pretty much impossible to align vehicles nicely for corners :P
16:02<frosch123>though likely inner and outer corners are so different, that it will always be wrong
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16:04<+michi_cc>Aditionally you'd have to figure out the analogue to the r23290 changes in saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp
16:05<andythenorth>so I can just setup BANDIT to use sane offsets, instead of relying on ottd
16:05<andythenorth>it's only 128 values to set
16:05<andythenorth>I probably don't need 1/8 and 2/8 length, so only 96 ;)
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16:10<andythenorth>if RV bounding boxes are changed in ottd, that breaks BANDIT?
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16:11<frosch123>there is no benefit in changing the bb for rv
16:11<Knogle>Zuu: It works now, thanks alot, once again.. ;)
16:12<Knogle>a lot*
16:14<andythenorth>frosch123: the only case I have is bounding boxes as drawn with ctrl-b - if these were vehicle length, that would be helpful
16:14<andythenorth>other than that, no benefit afaict
16:14<andythenorth>that may be a separate case anyway?
16:16<frosch123>ah, yes, you might try shortening the boxes without chaning the offset
16:16<frosch123>you need to add x/y_bb_offs to compensate that
16:18<andythenorth>I won't try to patch this right now, I have about 40 mins of holiday time left
16:18<andythenorth>then who knows when I next have time for ottd
16:19<frosch123>weird holidays that end tuesday at 22:00
16:19<frosch123>do you have a deadline tomorrow at 07:00 ?
16:21<andythenorth>I go to sleep, hopefully at 22:00
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16:24<supermop>jubilee holiday
16:27<Rubidium>doesn't look like they are observing that here
16:28<frosch123>hmm, i cannot remember, are you in us or in canada or something inbetween?
16:29<Rubidium>though her face is on the coins
16:29<frosch123>an up-to-date face?
16:30<Rubidium>up-to-date as in the current queen
16:30<andythenorth>both vehicles appear to be centered, best as I can tell
16:30<andythenorth>the length on the lead vehicle is 2/8
16:30<andythenorth>which should pull the trailer in close to the cab, but not overlapping it
16:31<andythenorth>but of course...that's not how it works :)
16:31<andythenorth>so I'm going to need to calculate vehicle lengths a bit more magically
16:31<andythenorth>rather than just based on the length of pixels :P
16:32<andythenorth>default RVs are 32px?
16:32<frosch123>oh, i detect serious flaws in my geography education
16:33<frosch123>why does canada belong to the commonwealth? they do not even have a unionjack in their flag?
16:33<Rubidium>frosch123: you probably haven't zoomed in deeply enough in the reflection in the flag
16:35<andythenorth>jamaica doesn't have a union jack either ;)
16:35<andythenorth>nor india, nor zimbabwe
16:35<+michi_cc>Interestingly some of the provincial flags have it (BC, Ontario and something I forgot)
16:36<Rubidium>I reckon the one you forgot ain't Quebec
16:37<andythenorth>so if I align vehicles in the center of the bb
16:37<CornishPasty>frosch123: why should it?
16:38<andythenorth>length needs to be: 32px - (sprite length / 2)
16:38<andythenorth>so a 28px vehicle remains at length 8
16:39<andythenorth>a 24px vehicle is length 7, rather than 6
16:40<frosch123>CornishPasty: i thought every commonwealth country would have it, and only might have removed it after leaving
16:40<andythenorth>so a truck with a 2/8 cab needs to use length....?
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16:41<andythenorth>result depends on both cab length, and total vehicle length
16:41<frosch123>andythenorth: the length of the rv is exactly that questiojn which noone answered in the last 2 yearsa
16:41<frosch123>it's still 28 in depots
16:41<CornishPasty>frosch123: nah, there's no rules on it tbh
16:42<CornishPasty>Although my country isn't in the commonwealth, and its flag *IS* the Union Flag
16:42<andythenorth>frosch123: that somewhat explains the problems with RVs in depots :P
16:42<andythenorth>I think vehicles are 32px
16:44<frosch123>CornishPasty: which country is that?
16:44<CornishPasty>frosch123: Guess? :P
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16:44<andythenorth>so a 4/8 truck with a 2/8 cab needs to use 4/8 length
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16:46<andythenorth>but a 5/8 truck with a 2/8 cab also needs to use 4/8 length
16:46<andythenorth>but a 4/8 truck with a 1/8 cab needs to use 3/8 length
16:47<andythenorth>this is going to be fun to write code for :P
16:47*andythenorth ponders a lookup table
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16:48<frosch123>CornishPasty: <- related to that?
16:49<@Alberth>andythenorth: sounds like a good idea to me, there are not so many combinations
16:49<andythenorth>one more complication :)
16:49<andythenorth>to add to the existing complications :)
16:49<frosch123>so, what makes the difference between canada/australia with queen, and india/south africa without queen?
16:50<andythenorth>inertia /s
16:50<@Alberth>good night all
16:50<CornishPasty>frosch123: Nah, I'm from England, our Queen is the head of state, and the head of the commonwealth, but we are not in the commonwealth... :/
16:51<CornishPasty>We left it to join Europe... *derp*
16:51<andythenorth>you're Cornish, you have your own country
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16:51<CornishPasty>andythenorth: I'm not, I just like CornishPasties
16:51<frosch123>yeah, i also addressed "cornish" to england :s but i could not imagine it not being part of the commonwealth :o
16:53<andythenorth>meh, this truck business is tedious :P
16:54<Zuu>Knogle: Whenever FS#5206 or a similar fix have been accepted, the break on log feature will be fixed for Game Scripts.
16:54<frosch123>ah "commonwealth realm" is the term here
16:54<Zuu>If I feel kind, I might even implement [AI/GS]Controller.BreakPoint() or similar. :-)
16:55<Zuu>as FS#5206 provides the framework for a such method to be fairly easy to implement.
16:59*Rubidium accepts FS#5206 ;)
16:59<Zuu>GSController::BreakPoint would just need to call Game::Pause() and invalidate the AI/GS debug window.
17:00<Rubidium>there, the problem is solved ;)
17:00<Rubidium>although the first chunk of ai_gui.cpp looks fishy
17:00<Zuu>hmm, maybe I should have written committed instead of "accepted" to be super clear. :-)
17:01<Zuu>Rubidium: The removed comments are for Suspend while the new comments are for Pause.
17:01<Zuu>It looks a bit wierd though.
17:02<Zuu>A longer section of context would fix it.
17:02<Rubidium>Zuu: wrong chunk
17:02<Zuu>Oh, that one yes.
17:03<Zuu>That is a bit unneded to say the least. :-)
17:03<Zuu>Hmm that I get for looking for spaces at the end of the line and not \s
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17:09<andythenorth>I'll need to centre the sprite for other angles too :P
17:10<andythenorth>what larks
17:13<Zuu>Fishy chunk removed
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17:19<@Terkhen> good night
17:19<Rubidium>good afternoon Terkhen
17:20<andythenorth>bon soir
17:21<andythenorth>so length is calculated from front of RV?
17:21<frosch123>andythenorth: i might write such a diff tomorrow
17:21<andythenorth>but rotation point remains 16px from front of vehicle?
17:21*andythenorth is trying to reverse engineer what ottd does
17:22<andythenorth>oh it's 22:22
17:23<andythenorth>my holiday in the world of OTTD is probably over :(
17:23<NGC3982>andythenorth: how's that?
17:23<andythenorth>tomorrow brings other things, then work
17:23<Zuu>If you pause a script, turn off gui.ai_developer_tools via the console and then close and re-open the ai debug window, I think you have to blame yourself that you can't unpause your script. :-)
17:24<andythenorth>plausible ;)
17:24<Zuu>(until you re-enable gui.ai_developer_tools and re-opens the ai debug window)
17:25<NGC3982>andythenorth: time is not for using, time is for making.
17:25<NGC3982>andythenorth: make time, and make openttd.
17:25<Zuu>A later patch might even add a pause sript button at the part of the window that is always displayed. But that probably needs storing of pause state in the savegame and more consideration what the consequenses are than if it is just a debug tool to be able to pause a script.
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17:27<andythenorth>NGC3982: a nice greetings card line, written by somebody with no children
17:27<andythenorth>or who's children have left home
17:28<andythenorth>whose /s
17:29<andythenorth>the complete absence of feedback on CHIPS means it's good enough?
17:30<andythenorth>it has 100k downloads, and hardly any comments
17:30<supermop>high platforms
17:30<supermop>thats what id ask for
17:31<andythenorth>you have those in the base set no?
17:31<supermop>but not many
17:31<andythenorth>or you want something different to that ?
17:31<supermop>chips one that match them would be nice
17:32<andythenorth>mud is out of the question ;)
17:32<supermop>sure, or wood too, but something like a bare version of the default
17:32<supermop>not if its adobe!
17:32<andythenorth>seen this?
17:32<Rubidium>andythenorth: weathered copper?
17:33<supermop>those look like they are lower than the default platforms
17:33<andythenorth>yes, I could add a high version of that though
17:33<supermop>thats essentially what i meant
17:33<andythenorth>I don't mind the idea, but what does it add?
17:34<supermop>basically lets you make the station in that picture without the platform changing height
17:35<andythenorth>I wouldn't replicate all the buildings with high tiles
17:35<NGC3982>andythenorth: ;)
17:37*andythenorth -> bed
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19:10<Leftie>Hi hi. I'm looking at having a serious attempt at learning to code GRFs. But i have a few questions the big one is, is this correct for OTTD, or is this only relating to TTDP?
19:11<Hazzard>I believe it works for both
19:11<Zuu>Its on the tt-wiki, not a ttdp-wiki.
19:11<Leftie>Well, i thought i better check, just incase i was being a little blind :p
19:12<Zuu>Also before when the spec was on the ttdp-wiki I think most of it was correct also for OpenTTD.
19:12<Hazzard>Have you taken a look at the NML tutorial?
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19:14<Leftie>yeah, NML looks a little easier for me. I know a few coding languages so it shouldn't be /that/ much for me to take in. My only real challenge is "if at first i don't succeed, i run off in a pissy fit" :p
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19:17<Zuu>"If you use an editor which you think is quite good and not listed here, you're welcome to add it." <---- lol, so the NML tutorial will end up in a editor war? :-)
19:17<Leftie>I code nearly everything in Notepad++ :p
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19:19<Zuu>I sometimes use it to change encoding of files or on systems that don't have gvim :-)
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19:21<Zuu>The find-replace is however awfully slow in Notepad++. Or at least the treshold file size when you can't use it due to performance problems is lower than gvim. Although gvim is neither perfect on that matter. Really large files require other methods than doing find-replace or macro edits in an editor. :-)
19:23<Leftie>Yeah, that is true enough with the f/r. Although my daily editing is usually Pawn/PHP/SQL/C# and not much F/R is required.
19:23<Leftie>Also, notepad++ seems to be fairly good at opening huge text files, at least compared to anything else default with Windows.
19:23<Leftie>and generally, i keep my systems not full of crap, so download one thing i know and stick with that :p
19:24<Leftie>Ideally, i need more RAM though, only have 4GB, makes some lengthy things a bit slow :<
19:25<Zuu>All default editors in windows sucks at even moderately large files.
19:25<Leftie>Is there any compatibility issues from using NML instead of NFO?
19:25<Zuu>NML get new features in OpenTTD a bit later.
19:26<Zuu>I think there is still some features only supported by NFO.
19:26<Leftie>Does NML GRFs work for TTDP?
19:26-!-Hazzard [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
19:26<Zuu>But I'm not really the right preson to give you a detailed answer as I don't know NFO nor NML. :-)
19:26<Leftie>I may have to come back during the day time, or at least my daytime. It's 00:26 here :o
19:27<Zuu>If you have Squirrel questions that's more my knowledge area in OpenTTD :-)
19:27<Zuu>Its 01:27 here. But its national holiday tomorrow :-)
19:28<Zuu>or today, depending on how you see it :-)
19:28<Leftie>Well, i'll have a read through the tutorial, see how far i manage to get without collapsing Windows into a blackhole and running off in a pissy fit.
19:28<Zuu>I think we are supposed to celibrate some old king or something.
19:29<Leftie>If i get stuck, i'll pop onto the forums, or here.
19:29<Zuu>Good luck
19:30<Leftie>Ta, i may need it :p
19:30<Zuu>Possible. I have yet to dare to try myself :-)
19:30<Leftie>Well, i'm hoping my knowlege of other languages may come in handy, but perhaps not :o
19:30<frosch123>Leftie: the specs have ottd and ttdp all over the place about what works in ttdp and what works in ottd
19:31<frosch123>if you code in nml, in most cases the grf will only work with ottd
19:31<Zuu>NML looks quite reasonable to learn though, if I would just have any motivation for coding any NewGRFs.
19:31<frosch123>noone spent the effort to make nml produce code that works in ttdp
19:31<Leftie>frosch123: Hmm.
19:31<Leftie>I wonder if realistically that many people still use ttdp..
19:32<frosch123>esp, when using a nml with version > 0.2 it will produce version 8 grfs, which do not work with ttdp
19:32<frosch123>Leftie: i think there are about 10 ttdp users which also would use new newgrfs
19:33<Leftie>I may look at NML, as it looks the easier of the two, and if anyone shows interest in what i'm trying to do, may later port it to TTDP, or something :|
19:33<frosch123>(i.e. are present around the forums or similar)
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19:34<frosch123>what kind of newgrf do you want to code?
19:35<heffer>Hetzner <3 So much win.
19:35<frosch123>vehicles, houses?
19:35<Leftie>frosch123: stations.
19:35<frosch123>haha, stations are not supported by nml :p
19:35<frosch123>so you have to go with nfo in that case
19:35<Leftie>okay nevermind.
19:35*Leftie goes back to ODF editing Star Trek Armada II files instead, will wait for OTTD to make it work with stations.
19:35<frosch123>i think stations are actually the only thing missing in nml
19:35<Leftie>NFO looks like i might as well just learn assembler :p
19:40<Leftie>I spose i could cheat and see you can decompile someone elses GRF and try learning from that :<
19:41<Leftie>Is there a specific reason they're not done yet, or just not got around to doing it, and will be worked on, frosch123?
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19:52<frosch123>Leftie: if you want to decode grfs, you should try grf2html
19:53<frosch123>stations work quite different to other stuff, so there was no good idea yet how the nml syntax should look like
19:53<frosch123>also the two nml devs are quite busy with rl the last two months
19:53<frosch123>so there is hardy progress
19:53<Leftie>Ahhh. x2
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22:57<Rubidium>now I understand there are little Americans and Canadians here... it's totally boring
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 06 00:00:08 2012