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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-06-16

---Logopened Sat Jun 16 00:00:26 2012
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04:39<Wolf01>hello!
04:40<__ln___>you could say that
04:42<@Alberth>moin Wolf01
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06:12<hackalittlebit>morning folks
06:12<@Alberth>moin
06:14<hackalittlebit>Hello albert, can you tell me if I have to choose between git and hg which one should I take (doing spring cleaning here :))
06:15<hackalittlebit>I am inclined to hg
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06:15<hackalittlebit>and is it possible to work with hg and svn together?
06:17-!-Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d8225a5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
06:17<@Alberth>hi
06:18<@Alberth>I use hg only, I tried git a few times very shortly, but its interface and me do not like each other
06:18<@Alberth>probably not in the last place because it uses the same set of commands as hg, except they all do something different :p
06:19<@Alberth>technically, there is not much difference, in the sense that they can both do about the same things
06:19<hackalittlebit>ok thanks
06:20<@Alberth>you can work with hg and svn in various ways
06:21<hackalittlebit>I'll try hg and experiment
06:21<@Alberth>what I do in Openttd is to have a local mirrir of the hg mirror, and from my local mirror I clone a new repo for each project that I do
06:21<hackalittlebit>I see
06:21<@Alberth>SVN is sort of useless unless you have commit access
06:22<@Alberth>as you can check out, but never save your changes otherwise
06:22<hackalittlebit>I understand alberth thanks.
06:23<hackalittlebit>today going to really clean the mess here :)
06:23<@Alberth>but hg-svn integration does go further, you can checkout a svn repo as hg clone, and they even have push (commit in svn speak) support
06:23<@Alberth>but I never dared the latter :)
06:24<@Alberth>obviously, if you have only a few projects, you can use the openttd hg mirror directly instead of having a local mirror
06:24<@Alberth>it just costs a bit more network access
06:25<hackalittlebit>no I am going to make local mirror
06:25<@Alberth>a hg clone is a full repo, that is, all history of the project comes with it
06:25<@Alberth>although if you clone at a local disk, it shares data afaik
06:26<@Alberth>it's great for locally searching the project history :)
06:27<hackalittlebit>Last question Alberth?
06:28<@Alberth>no need to ask for asking, just ask :)
06:28<hackalittlebit>FS5147 do you want me to perfect it more or is it sufficient for the time being?
06:28*Alberth looks
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06:29<@Alberth>oh, I haven't looked at it for quite some time
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06:30<hackalittlebit>frosch has made already some preparations in trunk I think
06:31-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f466e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
06:31<@Alberth>speaking of the devil :)
06:32<@Alberth>frosch123: a copy of the last 20 minutes: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1484/
06:33<@Alberth>nice clean windows, I think
06:33<@Alberth>I don't like the horizontal strips much, they don't seem to add much
06:34<@Alberth>hackalittlebit: the problem with polishing to perfectness is that you can continue doing that forever
06:34<hackalittlebit>:)
06:35<@Alberth>so imho it is better to make a next step, implement it, so you can try it live, show other people, etc
06:35<frosch123>i am using hgsvn if i have a large queue to commit
06:35<frosch123>but it needs setting up for every queue again, since the history which travels back via ottd svn and hg is not the same which i push
06:36<frosch123>due to svn doing stuff with keywords and times
06:36<frosch123>but anyway, without svn-commit access there is no point in using svn
06:36<frosch123>just use hg :)
06:36<frosch123>(unless you ask michi or fonsinchen)
06:37<hackalittlebit>frosch123 pyton and me don't go together :)
06:37<hackalittlebit>I'll use hg
06:37<hackalittlebit>thanks guys
06:37<frosch123>i think you are cionfusing stuff :)
06:37<@Alberth>hackalittlebit: euhm, you do knwo that hg is written in Python, right? :)
06:37<frosch123>hg uses python, while git does not
06:38<@Alberth>git uses 2 or 3 different languages :)
06:38<hackalittlebit>no
06:39<frosch123>wrt. fs#5147 we should code the mapgen window, and maybe remove some stuff from game settings (which we move to mapgen)
06:40<hackalittlebit>shoot
06:40<frosch123>for the other topics i see no convergence in what to do, and it does not look useful to wait on it
06:43<hackalittlebit>frosch123: please reply in fs5147 and I will apply changes.
06:44<frosch123>i have no settled opinon about the intro gui
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06:44<frosch123>imo the mapgen gui needs coding
06:45<frosch123>the difficulty settings need a discussion/decision what to do with them
06:45<hackalittlebit>yes
06:45<frosch123>and what would be the implications (esp. wrt. ai) if we remove it
06:45<frosch123>i do not dare thinking further than that :)
06:45<hackalittlebit>:)
06:45<frosch123>the intro gui comes lated from my pov
06:46<frosch123>*later
06:48<hackalittlebit>frosch123: I will review it myself again, need time to think also, I'll give you my opinion in fs5147
06:49<hackalittlebit>I am also not yet 100% happy about it.
06:50<hackalittlebit>need to go pick up the kids, see you
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07:16<teampedro>hello
07:17<FLHerne>hello
07:17<teampedro>i need a little help with setting a server up
07:20*FLHerne doesn't know a whole lot about that :-( - I can try and answer questions if you want though...
07:20<teampedro>ok thank you,
07:20<FLHerne>What is it you want to know?
07:20<@Alberth>just dump the questions, and if someone knows, he/she will answer
07:21*FLHerne wonders if anyone who does know what they're doing is online :P
07:21<teampedro>right i have set my router up ok and my bother has his router set up for server but we cant connect to the game
07:21<@Alberth>probably not, sane admins are still in bed :)
07:22*Alberth ponders how it can be ok if it does not work :p
07:22<FLHerne>Does it show up in http://www.openttd.org/en/servers ?
07:22<@Alberth>right, did you also set the firewall in the router?
07:22<@Alberth>and inside the machine(s)?
07:22<FLHerne>@ports
07:22<@DorpsGek>FLHerne: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
07:23<teampedro>yer we have set the firewalls and set the TCP/UDP's
07:23<@Alberth>also, how "cant connect"? through the advertising service, or directly by typing the address of the other machine?
07:24<teampedro>the game is adverised and just says network game connection lost
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07:25<FLHerne>You might need to increase the map-download timeout?
07:26<teampedro>ok
07:26<@Alberth>try a small map first
07:26<FLHerne>If the connection is slow, it might timeout before the map finishes downloading
07:27<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_multiplayer seems to have a lot of information
07:27<@Alberth>you can also try searching the forums, there are regularly people with connection problems
07:28<teampedro>my bro has just made a server game and it appears in the list of servers on the site
07:29<FLHerne>http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_multiplayer#People_get_disconnected_while_joining.2C_how_to_fix_that.3F might be the relevant bit of the page Alberth linked to
07:29<frosch123>teampedro: if you have timeout issues, try a smaller map
07:29*FLHerne is probably stating the very obvious, actually :P
07:30<@Alberth>FLHerne: np, people are bad at reading :p
07:30<frosch123>2kx2k maps are likely a bad idea with the average private upload connection
07:30<FLHerne>If it disconnects instantly, perhaps the firewall at your end is blocking the connection?
07:30<FLHerne>Unless you checked that already :-)
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07:31*FLHerne shrugs
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08:49<V453000>hello, could someone please give me a hint how could I code the following? I want to have passenger local trains be refittable to colour liveries for passengers cargo. Currently I only have sprites defined as PASS: spriteset_bla; ... Do I somehow make various versions of PASS, or is there some other way how to achieve that?
08:49<V453000>Japanese train set does that for example, refittability to various colours
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09:01<frosch123>V453000: use the "cargo_subtype_text" callback to define livery names
09:02<frosch123>then use the "cargo_subtype" variable to select the graphics
09:04<V453000>I will have a look into that, thanks frosch123!
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09:05<nekomaster>Hello
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09:10<nekomaster>bacon
09:11<@Alberth>it is?
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09:14<nekomaster>just wondering what I should build for my passenger train
09:14<nekomaster>British trains on the crete height map
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09:18<@Alberth>to play, you need loads to nice railway tracks
09:18<@Alberth>and stations in the cities, of course!
09:18<@Alberth>s/loads to/loads of/
09:18<nekomaster>Lol, i know
09:19<nekomaster>I got a coal line running 400 tons of coal to a power plant frequently. Though Im wondering what passenger train I should go with
09:19<@Alberth>oh, you mean what vehicle set?
09:20<nekomaster>I have the money for 3rd conversion, but I wonder if i should go with a short fast diesel train, or a slightly slower and higher capacity 3rd EMU
09:20<@Alberth>ah, the nightmares of any tycoon :)
09:20<nekomaster>lol
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09:21<nekomaster>the emu is also 4000 pounds cheaper to run
09:21<@Alberth>that sounds like a good deal to me :)
09:22<nekomaster>Hmm, so 260 Passengers at 75mph for 5000 GBP, or 240-50 Passengers at 80 MPH for 9000 GBP
09:23<@Alberth>but I don't ever get to the 3rd conversion, nor do I play with british train sets :)
09:23<nekomaster>Lol
09:23<nekomaster>I may be Canadian, but Im also part Scottish. I love most train sets, though North American and British trains are my fav's
09:23<@Alberth>but 5 mph does not sound convincing to me
09:23<nekomaster>Lol
09:24<nekomaster>in the game, 80 looks a good amount faster then 75 to me
09:24<@Alberth>I either play with the default set, or the opengfx+ one (which is almost default)
09:24<nekomaster>Ahh
09:24<nekomaster>well, do you ever use the EMU's
09:25<@Alberth>perhaps traction is better with the 80 ones?
09:25<@Alberth>what's EMU?
09:25<nekomaster>Electric Multiple Unit
09:25<__ln___>european monetary union
09:25<@Alberth>(aka, unlikely :) )
09:25<nekomaster>BTW, the default stuff is close in looks and spec's to British trains
09:26<@Alberth>the original author lived in England, so that's to be expected :)
09:26<nekomaster>Yeah
09:26<nekomaster>no wonder why the north american stuff is so off
09:26<nekomaster>:p
09:27<nekomaster>btw, I think the 80MPH diesel has better TE
09:27<nekomaster>259 kN per unit
09:28<nekomaster>the 3rd Rail EMU has 100 kN
09:28<@Alberth>America is very different, it's much larger, so I'd expect to see that back in the specs
09:28<@Alberth>ugh, that's not much
09:28<nekomaster>Well the specs for the sub-artic stuff is rather off
09:28<nekomaster>most of the sub-artic stuff looks like American stuff
09:28<nekomaster>like the CS2400 and CS4000
09:29<@Alberth>could be, I never read real-world train specs :)
09:30<nekomaster>hmm...
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09:30<nekomaster>North American trains IRL are huge
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09:31<@Alberth>I come from the simulation/software side, OpenTTD is an interesting program in that respect
09:32<nekomaster>I prefer to use real stuff in OpenTTD
09:32<nekomaster>Usually Im using American/Canadian, british, or australian stuff
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09:34<@Alberth>that seems to be the preference of the majority of the players (and vehicle newgrf authors)
09:34<nekomaster>Heh
09:34<@Alberth>which unfortunately leaves toyland very empty w.r.t. newgrf support
09:35<nekomaster>Well, theres not much in the way of Australian stuff
09:35<nekomaster>thats why ive been working on GARS, though its going kinda slow with me leading the my own project
09:36<@Alberth>yeah, being a tycoon also costs time ;)
09:36<nekomaster>lol
09:36<nekomaster>Though i wish i could get back the same flare I had for OpenTTD when i first started playing it
09:37<nekomaster>It also doesnt help that I can never get comfortable for long on most maps
09:39<@Alberth>Yeah, I play for a few hours, and then I have had enough of it again. Starting at 1950, I never get further than about 1980 :)
09:39<nekomaster>I hardly play for more then 5-10 years lately
09:39<__ln___>*than
09:39<nekomaster>i use to play it for hours, going from 1900's to 200's
09:39<nekomaster>2000's
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09:46<nekomaster>herp
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11:29<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: what weird search did you do?
11:30<frosch123>i ended up with 400000+ usages of "ttd"
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>site:tt-forums.net TTD -"Open TTD"
11:31<frosch123>hmm, "ttd" -"open ttd" -"ttd patch" site:tt-forums.net gives me 46700 now
11:31<frosch123>-"ttd patch" gave quite an impact
11:32<frosch123>oh, capitalisation? :o
11:37<__ln___>stop the press, i've found a flaw in openttd
11:37<frosch123>i have no idea, sometimes it says 400000 sometimes 50000
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11:38<frosch123>__ln___: we sell commas only in packs of dozen
11:39<__ln___>I bought a ferry that is traveling at 15 mph when imperial units are in use.
11:39<__ln___>since when do ships travel miles per hour rather than nautical miles per hour, aka knots?
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11:41<drac_boy>hi
11:43<frosch123>__ln___: the ottd world is no sphere, you cannot go from one side of the map to the other
11:43<frosch123>so, knots make no sense
11:46<__ln___>real-life definitions of units are irrelevant as the scale of things is nowhere near realistic in ottd world.
11:48<drac_boy>heh heh
11:50<tokai|mdlx>Just change the label, aka: display "kn" instead "mph"? :)
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11:51<__ln___>can't do that, 15 mph is only 13 knots.
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12:19<Eddi|zuHause>something's utterly wrong with civ5 now... the gui "lags", i.e. when i go in one city, it shows the data of the previous city i was in
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>or when i switch units, it doesn't switch the options what i can do with the unit with it
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13:24<@Alberth>A forest with 0 tonnes production, would that qualify as an opengfx+industries bug?
13:25<frosch123>no :)
13:25<frosch123>either it is newly planted
13:25<@Alberth>nope
13:26<frosch123>or it produces so few cargo, that it only distributed the production every two months
13:26<@Alberth>that could be the case :p
13:26<frosch123>or, it produces wood by cutting trees, and they are all gone
13:26<@Alberth>nope
13:26<@Alberth>aka, production is too low thus :)
13:26<@Alberth>thanks
13:28*Alberth destroys the station
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>i thought production below 4 per cycle will cause the industry to close?
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>(for default industries)
13:31<frosch123>it works different for smooth economy
13:31<frosch123>and production is not immediately pushed to stations, but there is a minimum amount to transfer
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>around 8-ish, i thought
13:33<frosch123>smooth economy seems to be only limited by 1 per cycle
13:33<frosch123>so, yes 8 per month
13:33<frosch123>and forests distribute at 30
13:34<frosch123>so, 3 months with zero production, 4 month with 32 :)
13:34<frosch123>s/4/4th/
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>ha, i love this discussion: "the game is not realistic, the trains turn 45°" - "no, i play CETS" :p
13:35<frosch123>lol
13:35<@Alberth>:D
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r24345 /trunk/src/lang/vietnamese.txt:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: vietnamese - 11 changes by nglekhoi
14:28*Pulec will be back
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14:42<@Terkhen>hello
14:42<Rubidium>http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=the+village+idiot+pub,+toronto&hl=en&ll=43.654287,-79.391045&spn=0.001983,0.001556&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=58.347972,50.976562&hq=the+village+idiot+pub,&hnear=Toronto,+Toronto+Division,+Ontario&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=43.654286,-79.391554&panoid=Pz9uItq4gZPNVtaSyNeRbw&cbp=12,326.48,,0,1.87 ;)
14:43<@DorpsGek>it's named after me?
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15:24<@Alberth>DorpsGek: I think you were first
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16:01<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r24346 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix: EQUALSIZE widget containers within EQUALSIZE containers were initialised with wrong sizes.
16:02<Wolf01>EQUALCEPTION
16:02<Wolf01>(I bet somebody was waiting for this)
16:02*Alberth nods (but not me)
16:03*frosch123 neither
16:03*Alberth thinks it was the CIA-2
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16:45<SpComb>not all widget containers are created equal
16:48<@Alberth>luckily not, it would be very boring :)
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16:58<@Terkhen>good night
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17:33<ErichEckner>Hi!
17:33<ErichEckner>I'm trying to compile the src of openttd on a debian-based machine, but ./configure complains about missing lzma although it is installed ... any suggestions?
17:34<ErichEckner>btw: I had the same issue under mingw on windows, but with some cfg-path-editing it went working (same thing doesn't seem to work under linux)
17:34<cornishpasty>ErichEckner: which lzma package is installed? Install the -dev package too
17:35<frosch123>it's actually called "xz-devel"
17:36<frosch123>not "lzma"
17:36<frosch123>hmm, no, remembered wrong. the package is indeed called "liblzma-dev"
17:36<ErichEckner>liblzma5, liblzma-dev, xz-lzma, lzma-dev are installed
17:38<ErichEckner>now i tried lzma instead of xz-lzma, but this won't work either
17:38<ErichEckner>lzma-dev si version 9.22-2
17:38<ErichEckner>*is
17:39<frosch123>what does "pkg-config liblzma --libs" tell you?
17:40<ErichEckner>... that this command is unknown ^^
17:40<frosch123>so, you need pkg-config
17:40<ErichEckner>lets see ... :-)
17:41<ErichEckner>okay, now he complains about something else, but I'll try to get thio work, thx!
17:43<frosch123>http://wiki.openttd.org/GNU/Linux#Debian_and_Ubuntu <- might also want to take a look at that
17:43<ErichEckner>okay, configure runs through
17:43<ErichEckner>hmm
17:44<ErichEckner>obviously I forgot some packages (I read the wiki before :-D)
17:45<ErichEckner>okay, compiling seems to work, too :-) (but this still doesn't explain, why i had to edit the PKG_CONFIG_PATH in mingw manually so he would find my liblzma ... but no problem *hehe*)
17:53-!-Mister_Argent [~kvirc@c-98-226-56-20.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
17:53<Mister_Argent>Quick newbie question -- Will making planes fly to further cities result in me getting more cash per flight?
17:55<Mister_Argent>Also, in temperate maps, what's the best way to make cities grow?
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17:56<+glx>a bus network
17:56<Mister_Argent>ah.
17:56<ErichEckner>Mister_Argent: yes, it will (propably -> look in the Diagrams at the lowest one)
17:56<Mister_Argent>Okay. just want to make sure i'm not making too big of a mistake by making my only plane fly to a city clear across the map.
17:56<Mister_Argent>(on a 1024*1024 map)
17:57<Mister_Argent>Also, assuming you're turning a profit, is leaving the game running a good or a bad idea?
17:57<ErichEckner>you get paid by distance _and_ travel time (more time, less income)
17:57<+glx>that may be a too long distance (time wise)
17:57<Mister_Argent>ah.
17:58<ErichEckner>i think it's better to invest your money
17:58<frosch123>letting the game run unwatched only works if you disable breakdowns (due to vehicle aging), plane crashes and disasters
17:58<Mister_Argent>ah.
17:59<Mister_Argent>Ooookay. i've dived into the red since establishing this airline, so i'm just gonna sell the plane and think on a smaller scale for a bit.
17:59<Mister_Argent>It's pretty clear that my transport company isn't quite ready to handle things on that scale.
18:00<Mister_Argent>"Prefinghill transport will be sold off or declared bankrupt unless performance increases soon!"
18:00<Mister_Argent>... is it normal to have extreme difficulty for the first five or six games?
18:00<frosch123>airports are quite expensive
18:01<frosch123>they have high maintenance cost
18:01<Mister_Argent>yeah. maybe i should just focus on buses or railroads for now.
18:01<frosch123>so you need many planes to make them work
18:01<ErichEckner>try busses and/or trains
18:01<ErichEckner>jepp
18:01<Mister_Argent>i've got a good bus set up and one ferry.
18:01<+glx>coal train is an easy money maker
18:01<Mister_Argent>Okay, back up out of the red.
18:02<Mister_Argent>Since it'll actually cost me money to destroy the airports, i should propably just leave them there until i can support air infrastructure again.
18:02<frosch123>no, they will cost you money even if unused
18:02<Mister_Argent>oh. well then, time to meet Mr. Demolish Tool.
18:02<frosch123>they will likely bankrupt you :p
18:02<Mister_Argent>http://i.imgur.com/8yMkp.png This is what i've got so far -- any advice?
18:03<Mister_Argent>(the airport is, of course, gone now.)
18:03<+glx>wood line is quite short
18:03<Mister_Argent>Yeah. propably could have just used a road for that...
18:04<Mister_Argent>Hmm, there's a coal mine and a power plant adjacent to the town that'd be propably pretty simple to link up.
18:04<ErichEckner>look for something to transport on rails (coal, ore, ...), that doesn't loose value quickly
18:05<Mister_Argent>Yeah. looking at shuttling coal to a power plant right now.
18:05<Mister_Argent>http://i.imgur.com/b16c5.png Would rail or road be best for this? Not pictured is a little gap in the river.
18:05<+glx>I'd use rail
18:05<Mister_Argent>Yeah. got enough cars as-is.
18:05<ErichEckner>me too
18:06<+glx>what is the production of the mine ?
18:06<Mister_Argent>Coal.
18:06<Mister_Argent>the power plant needs coal.
18:06<+glx>I now that ;)
18:06<ErichEckner>the amount
18:06<Mister_Argent>90 tons of coal.
18:07<+glx>not a big one
18:07<Mister_Argent>There's a iron mine nearby too. modifying the railroad to link to it would be trivial.
18:07<Mister_Argent>*to continue to it
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18:07<Mister_Argent>Now that i've gotten rid of the aircraft stuff i'm slowly accumulating again.
18:07<ErichEckner>i would link the coal mine 90 tons is enough for the beginning
18:08<+glx>yes for a start it's enough
18:08<Mister_Argent>yeah. i intend to expand a bit once i'm accumulating cash a bit faster, so for now it should work.
18:11<Mister_Argent>Is there any way to add words/name parts to the town name generator?
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18:12<Mister_Argent>is it like Dwarf Fortress where there's a 'Dictionary' file that you just drop words/etc. into as required?
18:13<frosch123>you can add town names via newgrfs, which is a binary format and needs some kind of compilation
18:13<Mister_Argent>ah.
18:13<ErichEckner>btw: compilation worked fine and since I have downloaded opengfx, openttd even starts ;-)
18:13<frosch123>there are multiple town names available in the content download
18:13<Mister_Argent>hmm, there's a farm near my town but no factory to connect it with...
18:15<frosch123>there should always be at least one factory
18:15<frosch123>on the map
18:15<Mister_Argent>yeah.
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18:21<frosch123>night
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18:21<Mister_Argent>adios
18:21<ErichEckner>cu
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18:30<doppelganger_>hello, I have a quick question: how do I get the oil from the oil wells to the oil refinery?
18:30<doppelganger_>it's been driving me crazy and the wiki isn't helpful at all
18:31<+glx>you just transport it
18:31<+glx>place a station near oil wells and one near refinery
18:32<doppelganger_>i created a truck station near the refinery, bought an oil truck
18:32<doppelganger_>let me try that
18:32<ErichEckner>upto here your approach sounds good
18:33<doppelganger_>i created a truck station near the wells
18:33<doppelganger_>but in "accept" it says "nothing"
18:33<doppelganger_>the truck station near the refinery is all set though
18:33<ErichEckner>the wells don't accept anything
18:33<ErichEckner>they _deliver_
18:34<doppelganger_>I know, but how do I see if my truck station took the wells into account?
18:34<doppelganger_>by "into account" i mean it's within range of the truck station
18:34<ErichEckner>just give your truck orders and wait
18:34<doppelganger_>do I have to connect the wells to some road or something?
18:35<+glx>no
18:35<ErichEckner>then you may click on the wells and see if the oil gets transported (if there are more than one nearby)
18:35<ErichEckner>no
18:35<doppelganger_>ok i'm gonna try that now
18:35<+glx>the station area should just cover the wells
18:35<doppelganger_>thanks for your help so far
18:36*Mister_Argent started over. He has 1 oil train and 1 coal train.
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18:38<doppelganger_>seems to be working
18:38<Mister_Argent>Yeah. i'm delivering oil by train from wells to a refinery.
18:40<Mister_Argent>"Can't build truck station... Trudinghall local authority refuses to allow this."
18:40<Mister_Argent>Guess someone doesn't want my business.
18:40<doppelganger_>thanks for your help it's working I can get back to not sleeping and playing this game :)
18:40<+glx>Mister_Argent: plant trees
18:41<ErichEckner>glx: this helps?
18:41<+glx>town authorities like trees a lot
18:41<Mister_Argent>Can i weaponize my trains at all?
18:41<ErichEckner>.. haven't tried the nice way before ...
18:41<Mister_Argent>Here, Trudinghall City Council. have some random trees so i can take all your money.
18:42<+glx>check your rating while planting trees, it should improve
18:42<Mister_Argent>rating?
18:43<ErichEckner>you're right
18:43<Mister_Argent>....oh, the town is propably mad at me because i blew up a bunch of their existing trees so i could see what i was doing
18:44<ErichEckner>press "x"
18:44<Mister_Argent>...dang, wish i'd known about that before
18:44<ErichEckner>there's a whole bunch of shortkeys
18:44<Mister_Argent>should propably take a wiki walk
18:44<ErichEckner>(esp. ctrl is heavily used)
18:45<+glx>http://wiki.openttd.org/Transparency_options
18:45<Mister_Argent>Is a coal mine that outputs 153 tonnes a month good?
18:45<+glx>not bad yes
18:46<Mister_Argent>Ah. i seem to be accumulating cash for now so i'll take a quick wiki walk while my trains and truck do their work.
18:46*Mister_Argent has two trains, one coal and one oil. he also has a single truck sending processed oil to a nearby town.
18:47<Mister_Argent>http://i.imgur.com/8JRkS.jpg
18:47<Mister_Argent>(is there a mod that adds Wind farms, solar panels and so on? or is that stuff that's already in and i just have no access to it because it's 1960?)
18:47<+glx>this town accepts goods ????
18:47<+glx>seems too small for me
18:47<Mister_Argent>...oh, the depot says just mail. wierd, when i put it down it said goods...
18:47<Mister_Argent>dang.
18:47<ErichEckner>you should think about building diagonal rails
18:48<Mister_Argent>my other train has plenty of 'em, but yeah.
18:48<ErichEckner>speeds up trains factor 2
18:48<+glx>or at least longer curves
18:50<Mister_Argent>okay. my oil truck's now driving to the semi-nearby town of plenninghall. it's far enough away that i propably would have been better off using trains, though...
18:50<+glx>diagonal rails were a bad thing in multiplayer when you couldn't bridge over them, but now it's ok
18:50<Mister_Argent>Yeah. i'm not ready for multiplayer yet...
18:50<Mister_Argent>I still haven't had a single player game where i have made it more than three years or so
18:51<ErichEckner>you may play cooperative in multiplayer ...
18:51<+glx>signals on every tile was not nice either at that time :)
18:51<Mister_Argent>Gonna move on to co-op when i know i won't drag all the other players down with me
18:52<Mister_Argent>is 40 tons of grain/120 items of livestock good for a farm?
18:52<ErichEckner>worth a try
18:52<Mister_Argent>there's one near this town i could link up pretty cheaply.
18:52<+glx>low grain, but for cow it's nice
18:52<ErichEckner>you shouldn't only link the shortest routes
18:53<+glx>yeah it depends on cargo payment rates
18:53<+glx>for coal longer lines are better
18:53<+glx>long lines with long trains
18:53<ErichEckner>i like to transport cheap cargo over long distances, so breakdowns won't matter this much
18:54<ErichEckner>and with long trains, of course :-)
18:54<+glx>and always have a vehicle loading
18:54<Mister_Argent>i apologize if i come off as a bit 'dumb' with regards to all this, i'm still pretty new and this is a bit of a different sort of game from Dwarf Fortress, in spite of their similarities.
18:54<Mister_Argent>do quite like the game so far, even if i'm no good at it :P
18:54<Mister_Argent>(yet)
18:54<+glx>the best is to have a full train leave while an empty one come
18:59<ErichEckner>a new question: I've successfully compiled openttd and got it started (after manually installing some graphic-stuff into bin/baseset), now I've reverted to revision 22553 in order to apply chills patchpack, but now it complains about missing graphics again ...
19:00<Mister_Argent>"Can't build truck station... Plenninghall local authority refuses to allow this."
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19:00<Mister_Argent>The Plenninghall Local Authority can go soak their head.
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19:08<ErichEckner>he also complains about missing generictramset (I had this installed once before), but claims to just ignore it ... :-/
19:11<Mister_Argent>when i make a railroad/road crossing, is all the signal stuff handled automatically?
19:13<ErichEckner>yes
19:13<Mister_Argent>ah.
19:13<ErichEckner>but you should be careful with crossing many rails at once
19:14<ErichEckner>because cars might stop on a rail at a closed crossing
19:15<ErichEckner>i tend to use bridges, since i crashed a bunch of busses this way :-D
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19:37<Mister_Argent>Okey, Plenninghall need to be less stuck up about me putting things in their city
19:37<Mister_Argent>Guess Monfingpool will be my pilot town for the whole bus thing. Plenninghall's loss.
19:42<ErichEckner>it's sometimes annoying, when a city refuses to build bus-stops or stations because you have connected it before via road, bridges, train, etc. and have leveled some land therefor ...
19:42<Mister_Argent>is there a way to weaponize trains? i want to send a train or two crashing through Plenninghall.
19:43<Mister_Argent>...one of my trains just broke down /in the depot/
19:43<Mister_Argent>in the depot /at a crossing/
19:44<ErichEckner>they always do ;-)
19:44<Mister_Argent>Road vehicle 1's profit last year was -924 / Road Vehicle 4's profit last year was -176 / Road Vehicle 2's profit last year was -924
19:44<Mister_Argent>Road vehicle 3's profit last year was -924
19:44<Mister_Argent>...maybe i should just stick to trains?
19:45<ErichEckner>dunno
19:46<ErichEckner>cars ar my girlfriends responsibility ...
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20:29<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sun Jun 17 00:00:27 2012