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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-06-17

---Logopened Sun Jun 17 00:00:27 2012
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02:04<@Terkhen>good morning
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02:53<Nat_as>If you zoom all the way out, and can't see the edges of the map
02:53<Nat_as>it's too big
02:53<Nat_as>I'm sorry scenerio developers
02:53<Nat_as>just because you can, does not mean you should.
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03:36-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
03:45*Alberth offers free cookies for all
03:48<TWerkhoven>mmmm, cookies
03:51<@planetmaker>moin
03:51<@planetmaker>hm, coodies :-)
03:51<@planetmaker>*nom nom*
03:55<@Alberth>see, that helps :)
03:55<@Alberth>good morning :)
03:57*Alberth needs FISH with auto-refit
03:58<Prof_Frink>auto-refish
04:01<@planetmaker>haha :-) Yeah. all those cookie-addicts :-)
04:01<@planetmaker>hm, auto-refit is different than refit. But... very nice. It should get that indeed. And heqs, too
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04:26<Wolf01>good morning o/
04:26<@Alberth>moin Wolf01
04:27<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
04:28<Wolf01>I removed "some" dust from my pc today, it feels better now :D
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04:31<@Alberth>always a good thing to prepare for all the free days in summer
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05:10<ErichEckner>Hi!
05:10<ErichEckner>I've got a question about chill's patchpack: I installed id on a linux machine and on a windows one (both from revision 22553), it run's fine, but in network mode he won't connect due to "version" issues. Any suggestions?
05:10<ErichEckner>*id -> it
05:10<@planetmaker>OpenTTD requires exact version matches
05:10<@planetmaker>you can never connect with one version to a server with another version
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05:10<ErichEckner>but rev22553 should be the same version, shouldn't?
05:11<@Terkhen>ErichEckner: it should be, but I have no idea about how versions are released for chill's patchpack
05:11<@planetmaker>yeah. *should*. I'm not sure what the PP does in detail
05:11<ErichEckner>hmm, so I should use the same rev and the identical .patch-file?
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05:12<@planetmaker>you self-compiled?
05:12<ErichEckner>yes, both
05:12<@planetmaker>and of course. same rev and same patch
05:12<@planetmaker>otherwise it won't work
05:12<ErichEckner>i used the same rev, about the same patch I'm not shure (I downloaded them to different times, but both are for rev 22553)
05:12<@Terkhen>also, since chill patchpack has binaries in its thread, you will have less headaches if you just use those
05:13<ErichEckner>... hmpf
05:13<@Alberth>you may want to try unpatched versions first, so you know your machine / network setup is ok
05:13<ErichEckner>have tried this before and it works
05:13<@planetmaker>you might consider to use the pre-compiled ones: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/chillpp/releases/h83a53b6e/
05:14<@Alberth>ok, so that points to differences in the patches, or in the way you build the programs
05:15<ErichEckner>hmm, there _were_ differences in building, but I thought they just appear to how I had to install the dependencies
05:15<ErichEckner>... maybe I'll just use ready binaries
05:16<@Terkhen>if you prefer to self compile, first compile the same clean revision (without the patch) and once that works, make sure that you are using the same patch for both
05:16<@Alberth>and if the latter fails, ask at the topic, as it points to a problem in the code, perhaps
05:17<ErichEckner>thanks, I've got quite a plan now :-)
05:17<@Terkhen>hmm... is the base costs newgrf deprecated or just outdated?
05:17<@planetmaker>Probably just a bit outdated
05:18<@planetmaker>base costs are not deprecated, are they?
05:18<@planetmaker>which?
05:18<@Terkhen>they are not, I was just asking about the newgrf :)
05:18<@Terkhen>ok, I'll post a few feature requests then
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05:23<@Terkhen>besides that, I just need an interesting single player game script :P
05:24<@planetmaker>:-)
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05:26<hackalittlebit>mornin
05:27<ErichEckner>I could use the source of chill and compile then ...
05:29<hackalittlebit>Alberth: thanks for advice, installed tortoisehg, very nice :)
05:29<@Alberth>you're welcome :)
05:30<hackalittlebit>made clone and clone of clone :)
05:30<@Alberth>nice eh ?
05:30<hackalittlebit>clone of trunk.
05:31<@Alberth>have you ever worked with version control systems before?
05:31<hackalittlebit>Terkhen: no
05:31<hackalittlebit>sorry
05:31<hackalittlebit>no
05:32<hackalittlebit>well I allways used tortoisesvn
05:32<@Alberth>ok, you are in for an enjoyable ride then, you'll wonder how you ever managed without a vcs (version control system)
05:33<hackalittlebit>:)
05:33<@Alberth>the biggest problem is that these things are highly generic, so they offer little guidance in how to do things
05:34<@Alberth>but just ask here, there is plenty of knowledge here
05:34<hackalittlebit>Thanks Alberth
05:34<@planetmaker>hi hackalittlebit
05:34<@Alberth>and do read the mercurial book :)
05:36<hackalittlebit>ok I will, one of the reasons I never changed is because of not knowing if tortoisesvn and tortoisehg could live together.
05:36<@planetmaker>the mercurial queues are a nice way to organize patches to be submitted to trunk
05:36<@planetmaker>During (heavy) development it might sometimes be a bit unhandy at times, though
05:37<@planetmaker>so that I first write and then re-write in form of a mq
05:37<@Terkhen>yes, develop first, think about distribution/commit later
05:38<@Terkhen>:P
05:38<@planetmaker>yeah. When there's still much code to add, I find it sometimes a bit too tedious to constantly hg qpush and hg qpop
05:38<@planetmaker>easier to disect later when things work
05:40<hackalittlebit>Terkhen: I cant config png because zlib directory is not encountered. what flag do I have to use to tell where to fins zlib libs and includes?
05:41<@Terkhen>no idea, I never used those
05:41<@Alberth>I do that too, first make a clone for hacking the source until it works, then make a new clone and copy stuff from the first one in a proper queue
05:41<@Terkhen>you can check them with ./configure --help
05:41<@Terkhen>(IIRC)
05:41*Alberth nods
05:42<hackalittlebit>yeah was doing something like that already
05:44<hackalittlebit>Terkhen i changed wiki to point to libpng-1.5.11, http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_MinGW
05:44<hackalittlebit>it was 1.5.10
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05:45<@Terkhen>hackalittlebit: nice, thanks :)
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06:41<ErichEckner>well, everything works with the binaries ... maybe I'm really to stupid :-/
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06:45<@Alberth>nah, computers are just plain stupid in explaining why things won't work
06:46<@Alberth>together with a complicated and lengthy build and setup process, it gives you many hours of debug fun
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06:57<ErichEckner>cu l8er
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08:26<jstepien>hi
08:26<jstepien>I've added a "saved at" label to the load game window
08:26<jstepien>here's how it looks like: http://stepien.cc/~jan/saved_at/
08:27<jstepien>I'm working on a patch and I'd like to learn what do you think about it
08:28<jstepien>I'd find it useful, especially when you've got a lot of saved games and have no idea when you've played a given game
08:28<FLHerne>It looks useful :-)
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08:29<FLHerne>'Saved at yesterday' sounds a bit odd though. Maybe the strings need to be changed a little?
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08:30<jstepien>the format of the date is an open issue
08:31<jstepien>there's no date prettyfing yet - what you see in the screenshot is a hardcoded string
08:33<FLHerne>Oh, ok
08:35<@Alberth>seems useful
08:36<jstepien>I guess that dd.mm.yyyy hh:mm or something else depending on your locale would be fine, but for last last 24 hours or so we can show prettyfied strings
08:37<jstepien>it depends of course, but for me it's more natural to read
08:37<jstepien>in such case though the "saved at" string would need to be replaced with something more appopriate
08:44<@planetmaker>there different formattings available for dates. And there's already a setting for the (default) savegame name
08:45<frosch123>https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/5192 <- does something similiar, only date though, no time
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08:49<jstepien>frosch123: thanks for the link, it looks quite similar to what I'm working on. In fact I didn't know about the todo list on the wiki
08:51<jstepien>frosch123: speaking of the attached patch, is sys/types.h available on windows?
08:51<jstepien>planetmaker: thanks, where should I look for them?
08:51<frosch123>no idea :)
08:52<@Terkhen>jstepien: on mingw maybe, on visual studio almost certainly not
08:52<@planetmaker>jstepien: the date format strings are defined somewhere in the string*.[cpp|h] files. Easiest to look at the language files
08:53<@planetmaker>There they are used definitely
08:53<frosch123>jstepien: however, since the fios gui can already sort for date, there is already an os independent function in ottd for that
08:53<@planetmaker>or in the saveload code the date should thus be used, too
08:54<jstepien>thanks guys, I'll be back with a patch to discuss
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09:43<Javis>crew?
09:43<@Alberth>who?
09:43<V453000>everybody! :D
09:43<Javis>someone with experience with dedicated server..
09:44<@Terkhen>@get #openttd -3
09:44<@DorpsGek>Terkhen: Don't ask to ask, just ask
09:44<Javis>hmmm..
09:45<Javis>when i start dedicated server on LAN without internet access.. the server stops after map generation is complete..
09:46<@Terkhen>did you check the server log?
09:46<Javis>no
09:46<Javis>where is it located?
09:46<@Terkhen>depends on your operative system
09:47<Javis>xp
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09:47<@Terkhen>in the console where you launched it or in the console that appears when you launch it
09:47<Javis>but the console dissappears before i can read something..
09:48<@Alberth>open the console manually, and start openttd from it
09:48<Javis>i just use .bat to start..
09:48<@Terkhen>launch the bat from a console then
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09:50<Javis>cmd?
09:51<@Alberth>Even I know that, and I don't even have windows machine :p
09:51<Javis>but server still shut down..
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09:52<@Terkhen>Javis: as I said, you can either check the server log or keep guessing :)
09:52<Javis>but where is the log?
09:53<@Terkhen>scroll a while back, I already answered that
09:53<@Terkhen>in the console :)
09:53<Javis>it wont say where..
09:54<@Terkhen>Javis: open a console, execute the bat, check the output
09:54<@Terkhen>and then tell us what it says
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09:55<@Terkhen>otherwise I won't be able to help you
09:55<@Alberth>alternatively, check the bat file, perhaps it does something weird with the log
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09:55<Javis>the bat file: start openttd.exe -D
09:56<@Terkhen>I have no idea of what start does
09:56<@Terkhen>just go to the folder with the console and run openttd -D
09:56<Javis>it starts the file specified..
09:56<@Terkhen>probably from a different console
09:56<@Terkhen>and then you can't see the output
09:57<frosch123>if you right click the bat file in explored and check the properties, there might be an option to keep the console opened on exit
09:57<Javis>what console?
09:58<Javis>cant find that option
09:59<@Alberth>start -> run... -> "cmd" -> ENTER
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10:00<Javis>i have cmd
10:00<@Alberth>"openttd.exe -D" -> ENTER
10:00<Javis>is it something with the config?
10:01<@Alberth>likely, but without knowing why it stops, it's just random guessing
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10:04<frosch123>well, try starting a non-dedicated server then
10:04<frosch123>there you have a gui :)
10:04<Javis>the dedicated server: map generation complete, starting game
10:05<Javis>then: dedicated server could not be started, aborting
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10:09<Javis>tried to start non-dedicated server...
10:10<Javis>failed to start server..
10:10<perk11>Javis: what's the error message?
10:10<Javis>non-dedicated?
10:11<perk11>where is this setting to see other companies' signs? I can't find it
10:11<perk11>Javis: so?
10:11<Javis>it says: could not start server.
10:13<@Terkhen>Javis: try openttd -D -d
10:13<@Terkhen>that should give us more info
10:13<Javis>noop
10:13<Javis>wont work..
10:14<@Terkhen>Javis: our problem here is "lack of information"
10:14<@Alberth>openttd.exe -d net=9
10:14<@Terkhen>please use that command and tell us what it says, otherwise we can't help you
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10:16<Javis>im almost sure it is something with the cfg..
10:16<Javis>or does it need editing?
10:16<FLHerne>I keep getting Make Error 1 after sqvm finishes compiling :-( . Does anyone know where I should be looking?
10:16<@Alberth>perk11: dropdown in the 3rd icon of the main toolbar
10:16*FLHerne doesn't understand Makefiles etc well
10:16<perk11>Alberth: thanks!
10:17<@Alberth>FLHerne: one or more lines up. That line is just make saying something went wrong during the build
10:18<perk11>FLHerne: yep, more info is required
10:18<FLHerne>Well, no previous errors :-(
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10:19<FLHerne>just: SRC] Compiling 3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.cpp
10:19<FLHerne>make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/francis/ottdsrc/qppb/objs/release'
10:19<FLHerne>make: *** [all] Error 1
10:19<@Alberth>nice :)
10:19<FLHerne>So for some reason I assume the makefile(s) is broken
10:19*FLHerne is trying to combine patches again :P
10:20<@Alberth>you can try running "make reconfigure"
10:20<perk11>FLHerne: it's strange, because "Leaving directory" means success
10:21<@Alberth>but we almost never touch the makefile, so it's unlikely to be broken
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10:21<@Terkhen>Javis: whatever the problem is, without the output we need we can't help you
10:21<@Terkhen>I'm not going to press the issue further, if you try to get that output later we can continue
10:22<FLHerne>perk11: Might it be that it can't load whatever it thinks the next directory is?
10:23*FLHerne tries 'make reconfigure'
10:24<FLHerne>'make reconfigure;make' gave me: make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/francis/ottdsrc/qppb/objs/extra_grf'
10:24<FLHerne>make: *** [all] Error 1
10:24<perk11>FLHerne: I guess there should be error message for that as well
10:24<FLHerne>Oh, and more entering/leaving directories (nothing to be done) first
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10:25<perk11>FLHerne: try make clean; ./configure; make
10:25<FLHerne>Interesting that it moans after leaving a different directory...
10:25*FLHerne tries
10:26<FLHerne>I tried make clean before, actually
10:26<FLHerne>ah, yes. Same problem (again)
10:26<@Alberth>make mrproper cleans out everything (it's stronger than 'make clean')
10:27*FLHerne tries that :P
10:27<FLHerne>Same :-(
10:27<FLHerne>Presumably one/more patches break something (or my incompetent merging :P )
10:28<FLHerne>Does anyone know which files being messed up would cause such an error?
10:29<@Alberth>you could try checking the source.list file
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10:29<FLHerne>oh, and compare it to the files that really exist?
10:29<@planetmaker>FLHerne: so... does unmodified openttd compile for you?
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10:30<@planetmaker>if you don't know: Please check that first
10:30<FLHerne>Aye :-)
10:30<perk11>I'd try something to make "make" output everything
10:30<@planetmaker>then you should know which patches you applied
10:30<FLHerne>I do
10:30<@planetmaker>then you could read those patches and check them for suspicious hunks
10:30<FLHerne>I just don't know which bit broke it :-(
10:30<@planetmaker>nor can we know without knowledge of the patches
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10:30<FLHerne>Ok
10:31<@planetmaker>:-)
10:31<FLHerne>I was just trying to narrow down which sections of patch could potentially cause the error
10:31<@planetmaker>those which deal with configure, config.lib etc
10:31<FLHerne>Thanks :D
10:32*FLHerne starts staring at code again
10:32<@planetmaker>read the diff files. They immediately tell you
10:32<@planetmaker>or... post the diff
10:32<@planetmaker>*paste
10:32<FLHerne>Indeed
10:33*FLHerne imagines thousands of lines of diff filling the channel :P
10:34<frosch123>any changes outside of the "src" folder can break the makefile
10:34<FLHerne>That narrows it down a lot...
10:35<FLHerne>So projects/openttd_vs??.vcproj are the only non-src files changed
10:36<frosch123>well, actually i meant the reverse as well :) changes inside "src" are unlikely to break make
10:36<frosch123>FLHerne: those files are only used when building on windows
10:36<frosch123>but if they are changed, source.list is likely changed as well
10:37<@planetmaker>and if not changed it might be the reason for the error ;-)
10:37<FLHerne>Ok, will stare at that one very closely :D. Thanks
10:37<FLHerne>Oh, yes, it is modified. Missed it before :P
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11:06<FLHerne>Ah. If it adds a file that doesn't exist to source.list, that might be problematic :P
11:06*FLHerne tries to fix it
11:07<@Alberth>perhaps an added file that was not included in the patch output?
11:07<FLHerne>That's probably the case
11:07<jstepien>ok, here's the savegame file's mtime patch for discussion: http://pastie.org/4103329
11:07*FLHerne looks for the files in question
11:08<jstepien>it' based on the patch attached to https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/5192
11:09<jstepien>as for now it displays only the date and I guess that something like SCC_DATE_TIME_LONG or SCC_DATE_TIME_PRETTY should be necessary to display the time
11:10<jstepien>time information is available in struct tm so we've got all data we need
11:10<@Terkhen>jstepien: for discussion it might be better to create a patch task on our bug tracker, that way it won't get lost and everyone can see it :)
11:11<jstepien>Terkhen: sure, if that's the preferred way I'll do it
11:11<@Terkhen>that said, does it works on windows? "struct tm *mtime" looks like unix only to me
11:11<jstepien>Terkhen: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/a442x3ye(v=VS.80).aspx
11:11<jstepien>windows seems to work fine with time.h
11:11<@Terkhen>ok :)
11:11<jstepien>there's one problem though
11:12<@Alberth>should be, it's standard C :)
11:12<jstepien>I've used localtime_r, which is POSIX but not windows
11:12<jstepien>however folks at redmond had a sense of humour and added localtime_s which - if I understand correctly - does exactly the same thing as localtime_r
11:13<jstepien>but with arguments swapped
11:13*Terkhen wonders how is time handled in other parts of OpenTTD code
11:13<@Terkhen>I never had to touch that
11:13<@Terkhen>let's see
11:14<jstepien>so I guess that for portability we'd need #define localtime_r(x,y) localtime_s(y,x)
11:14<@Alberth>not so much, I think, I am already surprised the file time exists
11:15<jstepien>from what I've seen OpenTTD avoids dealing with time
11:16<jstepien>there's Date everywhere
11:16<@Terkhen>I guess that if we had to deal with time before, it would have a definition on stdafx.h
11:16<frosch123>we already have a method for getting the file date
11:16<frosch123>the gui can sort for it
11:16<@Alberth>jstepien: that's game date :)
11:17<jstepien>Alberth: ah, I see
11:17<@Alberth>frosch123: it needs wall-clock time
11:17<frosch123>so, i think that code should be a single method instead of os specific ifdefs scattered all across the code :)
11:18<jstepien>for save/load game gui, files' timestamps are read in fios.cpp:260
11:18<jstepien>and that's the code I've used in the patch
11:18<jstepien>extracting it to a separate function might be a good call
11:19<frosch123>yeah, but please add a function for that, instead of using copy&paste for the ifdef part
11:20<jstepien>frosch123: sure
11:22<jstepien>frosch123: where should I put it? fios.cpp seems to be a bad place
11:23<jstepien>fileio.cpp looks like generic file io handling - maybe there?
11:24<frosch123>might be, i do not know that part that well :)
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11:47<Eddi|zuHause>in the right light, my black cat looks very brown...
11:51<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: Maybe it was replaced with an artificial spy cat by aliens :p
11:56<frosch123>aliens replaced with aliens by aliens?
12:02<Achilleshiel>complete logical :)
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12:23<jstepien>I've attached my patch to the original bug report: https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/5192
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r24347 /trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
13:46<Sacro>\o/
13:47<Rubidium>good afternoon
14:03<Rubidium>ugh... these american, or whatever they are called, plugs are worse than useless. My adaptor + euro connector keep falling from the socket
14:03<@Terkhen>hi Rubidium :)
14:04<Rubidium>even american plugs are slipping out of the socket
14:09<@Terkhen>they don't look very stable :P
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14:16<valhallasw>Rubidium: buy an extension cord
14:16<valhallasw>Rubidium: then you can just put the adapter + sensible plug on the floor
14:17<valhallasw>and then it's Rubidium-gravity 1-0
14:17<Rubidium>valhallasw: if only the american plugs wouldn't fall from this socket as well, just slightly slower
14:20<TrueBrain>duct-tape
14:20<TrueBrain>it holds the world together
14:20<TrueBrain>(and Minmatar ships, but that is another story on its own)
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15:11<@planetmaker>Hi Rubidium!
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16:35<@Terkhen>good night
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17:05<frosch123>night
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17:21<wizetmaplestory>hello
17:21<wizetmaplestory>are any devs here
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17:25<wizetmaplestory>does anyone know a dev
17:26<__ln___>i know /dev/null
17:26<wizetmaplestory>what?
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17:46<@planetmaker>@topic get -3
17:46<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
17:47<@planetmaker>^ wizetmaplestory
17:48<Wolf01>'night
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17:52<@planetmaker>__ln___: sure you are not more familiar with /dev/random ? :-P
17:55<@planetmaker>wizetmaplestory: don't wait for anyone whom you think may know the answer to a question yet no-one knows except you. Just ask. Here are many knowledgable people
18:02<wizetmaplestory>i just want to suggest something
18:04<@planetmaker>replace question by suggestion and everything said above also applies ;-)
18:05<wizetmaplestory>although these people arnt devs and wont be able to say about it being possible to put in the trunk or etc.
18:06<V453000>it isnt possible.
18:07<@planetmaker>devs are known to read this channel, you know...
18:08<@planetmaker>but indeed, unsuggested things are not possible. V is completely right
18:09<@planetmaker>besides... this channel also has a lot of knowledgable people who aren't devs but who know their way around the code well enough
18:09<wizetmaplestory>though telling you guys wont be letting the devs know
18:10<wizetmaplestory>and they cant do it if they dont know
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18:10<@planetmaker>... V453000, can you slap me a bit? I must be ... in the wrong movie
18:10<V453000>:D
18:10<V453000>ridiculous isnt it
18:10<@planetmaker>very much so
18:11<@planetmaker>wizetmaplestory: did you ever compare the admins of this channel to the dev names?
18:11<wizetmaplestory>no
18:11<@planetmaker>do that ;-)
18:11<V453000>^^ but wants to make suggestion
18:11<wizetmaplestory>where are the admins?
18:12<V453000>they have @ in start of the name
18:12<@planetmaker>and + in this case, too
18:12<V453000>ah yes
18:12<wizetmaplestory>none do
18:12<@planetmaker>they're just modest
18:12<@planetmaker>and the indication depends on your IRC client
18:12<V453000>hm :)
18:12<wizetmaplestory>im using chatzilla
18:12<@planetmaker>probably with a star or so
18:12<V453000>I thought the chat window always has @, the user list stars etc
18:13<@planetmaker>anyway, we digress a lot.
18:13<@planetmaker>nah, they don't V453000 :-) But most IRC clients do use it
18:13<wizetmaplestory>theres dark green lights for users and i dont know what the grey and light green stand for
18:13<V453000>:)
18:13<@planetmaker>wizetmaplestory: grey and light green are mods
18:13<wizetmaplestory>does devs also read chat logs
18:14<@planetmaker>they do
18:14<wizetmaplestory>ok
18:14<wizetmaplestory>anyways
18:14<@planetmaker>lalalala...
18:14<wizetmaplestory>like of how Google bought YT
18:14<wizetmaplestory>we should be able to buy companies without them being bankrupt
18:14<wizetmaplestory>but of cource
18:14<wizetmaplestory>course
18:15<wizetmaplestory>the other would have to agree
18:15<V453000>lol
18:15<V453000>if the other agrees, they could just make their money below 0 for a few months
18:15<V453000>done
18:15<wizetmaplestory>and i have a reason for this which is also the reason why i thought of it
18:15<@planetmaker>well... sure that's feasible. But what V453000 says
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18:15<@planetmaker>just go into debt for 4 consecutive quarters
18:15<wizetmaplestory>someone wants to me to join their company
18:16<wizetmaplestory>but i dont want to leave my company
18:16<@planetmaker>though the debt version has issues. The 'best' company may buy first
18:16<wizetmaplestory>yep
18:16<@planetmaker>which might not be the one you like
18:16<V453000>yeah you have go have disciplined people on the server :)
18:17<V453000>which we do. :)
18:17<@planetmaker>on the coop servers, yes
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18:18<@planetmaker>wizetmaplestory: yes, it's feasible to change that. But... enabling shares in MP is not a good idea
18:18<@planetmaker>they can be used to cheat money. Thus this is an option which rather should IMHO be implemented as "merge companies" which both companies simply have to agree.
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18:18<@planetmaker>without any purchases involved
18:19<@planetmaker>and with the penalty that the worst town rating is taken for the newly formed company.
18:19<@planetmaker>worst of the two existing companies
18:19<V453000>I guess that would have to be the result, just merge
18:20<@planetmaker>would fall in a similar area as to how to give money to other companies (which still works on a per player basis)
18:21<@planetmaker>and it IMHO would need (yet another) advanced setting so that it could be disabled server-side
18:21-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-89-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:22<@planetmaker>and behold. you now got a dev's opinion on your suggestion.
18:22<wizetmaplestory>also the possibility of buying rights to a building would be good
18:23<V453000>actually an option to disable ability to buy companies even when bankrupt wouldnt hurt either
18:23<V453000>usually the bought company is only a mess that the buyer only leaves rotting
18:23<@planetmaker>could be the same just then
18:23<V453000>therefore just taking space
18:23<V453000>yeah
18:23<@planetmaker>what kind of buildings, wizetmaplestory?
18:24<wizetmaplestory>i mean like buy rights to a water pump so it'll only supply your stations
18:24<@planetmaker>it's called exclusive transport rights and those are issued by towns for all the cargo of their industries and their citizens
18:24<V453000>sabotage tool no1 :D
18:25<@planetmaker>mind, it's a transport game. You don't own the cargo. You're only paid for the transport
18:25<wizetmaplestory>i mean like companies buying rights for a single building (NOT a whole town)
18:25<V453000>and imagine that you have been growing a town for 100 years, then someone comes and buys rights
18:27<@planetmaker>Well. Towns belong to you either ;-)
18:27<@planetmaker>wizetmaplestory: I'm afraid I'd not like the idea to get exclusive rights for a single industry :-)
18:27<@planetmaker>mostly for gameplay reasons
18:27<@planetmaker>and the added, unneeded complexity
18:28<@planetmaker>and in reality it's solved nicely by server rules which are maintained by the admins of the server
18:29<wizetmaplestory>well obviously there'll be a limit of how many buildings you can buy rights for
18:29<wizetmaplestory>maybe 3 or so
18:29<wizetmaplestory>and pricy
18:29<@planetmaker>I don't really see a gameplay advantage
18:31<@planetmaker>especially, you can get somewhere close to that already by combining NewGRFs and game scripts. But that'd need a bit work in their authors end
18:31<V453000>I think buying any rights for anything is just stupid and it mainly opens door for sabotage, while not bringing anything good. Normal people will respect each other and leave used industries/towns to the people who were there first
18:32<@planetmaker>Oh, I really think both views are equally valid, V453000, the competitive aggressive, the competitive friendly
18:32<@planetmaker>it's just a matter of what game you like to play
18:32<V453000>sure
18:32<@planetmaker>I prefer the latter. you, too. But not all do
18:32<V453000>but having an option to buy anything on the map for yourself is just silly
18:33<wizetmaplestory>i just fucking hate it when someone leeches off of me and gets more cargo
18:33<V453000>wizetmaplestory: he could also buy the rights so you get nothing
18:33<wizetmaplestory>not if i do it first
18:33<@planetmaker>wizetmaplestory: well. Then you play on the wrong server. Play on a well moderated one with proper rules
18:34<wizetmaplestory>which has no one online
18:34<@planetmaker>otherwise the person could just buy exclusive rights on your most valuable industry. And then?
18:34<wizetmaplestory>you can use a different building
18:34<@planetmaker>It's an issue which has no technical solution. Social problems usually don't
18:35<@planetmaker>I can recommend the openttdcoop stable server ;-) There people won't steel from your industry. usually
18:35<@planetmaker>*steal
18:35<@planetmaker>not steel :-P
18:35<V453000>there is a feature for social problems, it is called kick/ban :p
18:36<xQR><wizetmaplestory> not if i do it first <-- that's exactly the problem with all the "buying and owning" ideas
18:36<xQR>at some point the game is degraded to a "who is first" battle
18:37<xQR>"who secures the best resources first?", instead of "who can build the best rail network?"
18:37<wizetmaplestory>like i said, limit
18:37-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-108.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
18:37<xQR>also you will play alone on the server - people join, see you have reserved all the good spots, leave
18:37<xQR>happy single player
18:37<xQR>;)
18:37<wizetmaplestory>obviously there will be a limit depending on server
18:38<wizetmaplestory>some servers will have it disabled, some will only have 1 allowed
18:38<@planetmaker>wizetmaplestory: still. That won't add to gameplay really
18:38<wizetmaplestory>only SOME fairness
18:39<@planetmaker>it's a social problem. And has no technical answer which will work. Fairness is only ensured by moderation
18:39<wizetmaplestory>i hate it when people leech from me and they get more cargo
18:39<@planetmaker>whatever technical means you employ
18:39<V453000>as planetmaker said.
18:39<@planetmaker>you said that. And I say. get a well moderated server. I'm sure xQR's one are that as well
18:40<wizetmaplestory>problem is, only n-ice servers have people on
18:40<wizetmaplestory>which are the servers im having the problems on
18:40<@planetmaker>totally not true ;-)
18:40<wizetmaplestory>i mean server with really people on
18:40<@planetmaker>http://www.openttd.org/en/servers
18:40<V453000>I believe there are some other servers with people on, but as you want .. :)
18:41<wizetmaplestory>whenever i look at the servers, only the n-ice servers has more than 4 people on
18:41<@planetmaker>I look and see more servers ;-)
18:41<wizetmaplestory>and BT-Pro is pretty much the same
18:42<wizetmaplestory>only less people
18:42<xQR>they allow claiming, don't they?
18:42<wizetmaplestory>no
18:42<wizetmaplestory>100% same as n-ice servers
18:42<xQR>they have copied the n-ice rules but made this one change, specifically for goods
18:42<xQR>no
18:42<@planetmaker>xQR: yours are the n-ice?
18:42<xQR>yep
18:42<@planetmaker>:-)
18:42<xQR>i know Frank changed it
18:42<xQR>because they got a lot of people with the same arguments like you
18:43<wizetmaplestory>xQR, whats the difference of you and xOR
18:43<V453000>I seriously dont understand how could anyone even dare to steal from a well-supplied factory of another player
18:43<xQR>there is none
18:43<xQR>xOR just wasn't free here
18:44<@planetmaker>:-)
18:44<wizetmaplestory>V453000 probably because the one person is just playing for fun and the other is playing just to be a douche
18:44<wizetmaplestory>taking advantage of it
18:44<xQR>V453000 so in real life you transport wood to a factory - that factory produces wooden toys from it
18:44<@planetmaker>wizetmaplestory: so it's a moderation issue. Report it and it will be dealt with
18:44<xQR>now you automatically own those toys, right?
18:44<xQR>not the factory, noooo
18:44<V453000>yes but still I dinf it really very agressive and disrespectful
18:45<wizetmaplestory>except that its allowed on n-ice servers
18:45<V453000>xQR: real life isnt openttd
18:45<@planetmaker>wizetmaplestory: then play on the BT or the coop server
18:45<xQR>yeah but then we should have flying trains
18:45<wizetmaplestory>YES
18:45<@planetmaker>as they obviously allow claiming.
18:45<V453000>should I take that as feature request for nuts xQR? :D
18:45<xQR>or we try to keep a bit close to reality and don't have a transportation company own a factory only by transporting stuff there
18:45<@planetmaker>my words, xQR :-)
18:45<xQR>the feature request from my side would rather be: make a delay for goods production of factories
18:46<xQR>so it becomes clear
18:46<wizetmaplestory>oh god i havnt seen a luukland server in forever
18:46<xQR>the only reason why people think they automatically own the goods
18:46<@planetmaker>xQR: that's newgrf-able
18:46<xQR>is that 1 crate appears at the same second you put 1 resource in
18:46<wizetmaplestory>too bad i was mac banned for talking too much
18:46<@planetmaker>like stockpiling in ECS does that to some extend. Could be even made 'worse'
18:46<@planetmaker>*extent
18:46<V453000>no the reason that people think they own the factory is because they care for it and supply it. And probably dont want anyone to come and get the reward of goods from them just cause.
18:47<xQR>on our servers more than half of players who complain about a goods "stealer" don't have ever even transported their own goods
18:47<xQR>they are just pissed that someone else makes profit from it
18:47<xQR>it's really just an emotional thing most of the time
18:47<xQR>and i don't understand why
18:47<@planetmaker>my precious!
18:47<@planetmaker>mine!
18:48<xQR>:P
18:49<@planetmaker>people want security (my industry) and guidance (clear goals)
18:49<V453000>well that is questionable but I guess they just didnt make it to set up the goods transport yet?
18:49<@planetmaker>Both OpenTTD does not offer by default
18:49<xQR>also those stealers very rarely can compete with them in any other way, for the "factory owner" it's like a small itch but still they make a fuss about it as if their company was destroyed by it :P
18:49<xQR>as i said, emotional, nothing else
18:49-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.25.99.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd
18:49<xQR>i've seen a player who was at 99% of a 15 billion goal complaining about that one player getting goods from his factory at 1 spot
18:50<xQR>a player which was at 5% of the goal
18:50<@planetmaker>he's competitive. It cost him probably 20k gc
18:50<xQR>:P
18:50<@planetmaker>it's unfair. By his standards
18:50<wizetmaplestory>or at least if a second or third or etc., person comes it
18:50<wizetmaplestory>SPLIT THE CARGO EQUALLY
18:50<@planetmaker>wizetmaplestory: only two people get goods anyway.
18:51<@planetmaker>and not equally. That's what transport rating is for
18:51-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-108.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:51<wizetmaplestory>but the seconds always gets more
18:51<@planetmaker>nope
18:51<wizetmaplestory>even when i have the better rating
18:51<@planetmaker>just offer better service
18:51<@planetmaker>nope
18:51<@planetmaker>best station rating gets most
18:51<@planetmaker>2nd best get 2nd most
18:51<@planetmaker>others get nothing
18:51<xQR>wizetmaplestory you probably got fooled by the fact that station rating changes take a bit of time to become effective
18:51<@planetmaker>that's it
18:51<wizetmaplestory>then the other person must of been hacking
18:51<xQR>but it's like planetmaker said
18:52<@planetmaker>nope, wizetmaplestory
18:52<wizetmaplestory>the ratings always showed i had a better rating but he got more
18:52<@planetmaker>it helps to have new vehicles. Have fast vehicles. Have frequently vehicles arrive. Have costant loading
18:53<@planetmaker>Maybe it only piled on his station due to bad service?
18:53<@planetmaker>doesn't mean he got more. Just that he transported rarely
18:53<xQR>wizetmaplestory next time save the game and we count who really got more :P
18:53<@planetmaker>I have stations with 5% service rating and 20k coal
18:54<wizetmaplestory>he was also loading the same train on two water pumps and more fequent loading
18:54<@planetmaker>then he had better rating than you
18:54<wizetmaplestory>although the game showed otherwise
18:54<@planetmaker>but without savegame I must write-off your claim of it working differently than I just said as unfounded, I'm afraid
18:55<wizetmaplestory>i hate arguing anyways
18:55<@planetmaker>show us with a savegame that you're right
18:55<xQR>btw i don't agree that such a thing could be done by admin moderation - it would only lead to a lot of admin calls where both players state "i was first" and the admin has to find out
18:55<xQR>this can become annoying really fast
18:56<@planetmaker>xQR: yes... agreed. Though that seems to happen hardly in my experience. And if it happens, logs usually helped us out quickly. or previous savegames
18:56<@planetmaker>happens like once a quarter or so on our server
18:56<wizetmaplestory>at least i figured out how to become a millionaire finally
18:56<xQR>you haven't seen a server with 17 active players, most of them not very experienced...
18:57<@planetmaker>well... I did ;-)
18:57<xQR>sometimes there are calls every 5 minutes, and this is going on for hours
18:57<xQR>about all kinds of stuff
18:57<wizetmaplestory>you know what rustles my jimmies
18:57<wizetmaplestory>when noobs put large jets on small airports
18:57<@planetmaker>But I quickly teach them to not call admins for things they don't need an admin for ;-)
18:58<V453000>oh yes you dont want to call planetmaker without a reason :D
18:58<xQR>sure but new players that haven't been taught this lesson pop out of nowhere every hour
18:58<@planetmaker>Especially to not "test" the !admin command just for fun :-P
18:58<xQR>yeah we have the same story
18:58<xQR>usually makes us "test" commands too
18:58<xQR>like !kick
18:58<xQR>:D
18:58<@planetmaker>why yeah... or !ban :-P
18:58-!-Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.154] has joined #openttd
18:59<@planetmaker>but ok. Not for first-time "testers" ;-)
18:59<xQR>that would be a bit too hard, !tempban at maximum :P
19:00<xQR>wizetmaplestory
19:00<xQR>Competition is encouraged, but limited! You don't own cities but you CAN claim a factory, people can compete with you for any resources in a city BUT may NOT steal goods a factory produces with supplies from a competitor!
19:00<xQR>the rules on BTPro
19:00<xQR>that's the only part Frank has changed afaik
19:00<wizetmaplestory>to me, seemed like the rules on BTpro seems the same as n-ice
19:01<wizetmaplestory>except for the nobrk
19:01<xQR>yeah because Frank is a lazy boy and just copied our rules :P
19:01<xQR>but he has made some changes
19:01<xQR>also i see they have a new "walk on water" rule now o0
19:01<wizetmaplestory>yep
19:02<wizetmaplestory>o.0
19:02<xQR>and teleportation lol
19:02<xQR>wtf is that
19:02<wizetmaplestory>oh, not a irc style siliy
19:02<wizetmaplestory>smily
19:02<xQR>"Teleportation" is NOT allowed.
19:02<wizetmaplestory>blah
19:02<xQR>say what?
19:02<xQR>don't beam me up, scotty!
19:02<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart/Stable <-- maybe you like that, wizetmaplestory
19:03<wizetmaplestory>and im having rail problems
19:03<@planetmaker>xQR: you don't know teleport? It's beaming cargo over (station-spread)*2 tiles :-)
19:03<xQR>yeah i just read
19:04<xQR>i knew it but when i heard the term teleportation didn't link it to what i knew
19:04<xQR>"Servicing the same industry requires agreement of both players, although is not recommended." <-- what a good source for problems :P
19:04<V453000>you might consider some poitns too strict but I insist on the fact that it creates a good environment for friendly play and doesnt limit nice people :)
19:04-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-109-76.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:05<xQR>yeah but such agreement things are a problem - what if someone agrees first but later when someone already relies on such connections pretty much withdraws his agreement?
19:06<xQR>actually most servers without explicit rules work this way, people would have to agree on things by themselves
19:06<xQR>but it's rarely working
19:06<V453000>if you once agree you agree.
19:06-!-Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit []
19:06<@planetmaker>we could probably not prove that, though, V453000. That's the point.
19:06<xQR>i still think such rules will work on openttdcoop as it is usually frequented by a bit more experienced players
19:06<V453000>yeah I guess
19:06<V453000>logs?
19:07<xQR>but log checking is a tedious task
19:07<xQR>especially if you run several servers
19:07-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-108.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
19:07<wizetmaplestory>WTF
19:07<wizetmaplestory>YAPF sucks
19:08<@planetmaker>xQR: yes... though grepping for a user name makes it easy
19:08<V453000>good way how to start discussion about yapf
19:08<@planetmaker>:-) indeed
19:08<xQR>that depends on the logs you want to search
19:08<xQR>on our servers admins can query the DoCommand logs of all players via IRC - sounds comfortable but it's often hundred thousand lines
19:08<xQR>so you need to know what to search for
19:09<wizetmaplestory>thats not a fucking 90 degree turn but my train isnt taking it
19:09<xQR>e.g. specific tile coordinates of the spot where you want to see when someone built his station
19:09<@planetmaker>xQR: or the rought time
19:09<@planetmaker>*rough
19:10<V453000>luckily I have to say I only solved such issue like once or twice
19:10<xQR>i hear the "i was there first" thing several times a day - and i am always happy that my answer simply is "it doesn't matter, you're all allowed to compete"
19:10<xQR>if i would have to find out every single time...
19:11<@planetmaker>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1489/ <-- xQR
19:11<@planetmaker>feasible ;-) But not trunk. Sadly, if you ask me. Though one can do similar with admin port now
19:11<xQR>which is what we're doing
19:11<xQR>;)
19:11<@planetmaker>:-)
19:12<@planetmaker>did you ever publish your admin port stuff?
19:12<xQR>nope
19:12<@planetmaker>bah. sad
19:12<@planetmaker>why not?
19:13<xQR>i was even crazy enough to translate most of the DoCommands, so our logs are like spoken text and not that rough
19:14<xQR>[01:14:39] • <OTTD-2> <YardKing/3 (Dark Blue)> has started/stopped vehicle 13 - at 213x973 (0x79AD5)
19:14<xQR>[01:14:41] • <OTTD-2> <YardKing/3 (Dark Blue)> has cloned a(n) train (wagon) with shared orders - at 218x974 (0x79CDA)
19:14<xQR>[01:14:42] • <OTTD-2> <YardKing/3 (Dark Blue)> has skipped vehicle 13 to order 1 - at 217x973 (0x79AD9)
19:14<xQR>and so on
19:15<xQR>you can also have it relayed to you over IRC live
19:15<xQR>to "watch" someone
19:15<@planetmaker>why is it not public and open source?
19:15<xQR>power :D
19:16<xQR>http://prebendorf.dk/openttd/
19:16<@planetmaker>should we close-source and sell OpenTTD?
19:16<@planetmaker>and require licenses?
19:16<xQR>i'd buy it, definitely :P
19:16<@planetmaker>well. It really saddens me.
19:17<@planetmaker>As I don't get it. We work for free. For everyone to join. And see. And improve
19:17<@planetmaker>why is that not honoured mutually?
19:18<xQR>tbh i think OpenTTD is JUST big enough - a bit smaller and you simply wouldn't find enough contributors to gain the smallest benefit from open source
19:18<xQR>i have posted a request for xShunter testers on the forum but response was really low
19:18<@planetmaker>you don't publish it for everyone to test, did you?
19:18<xQR>it wouldn't be like OpenTTD, a big community of people helping each other
19:19<@planetmaker>asking people to "apply" for testing... usually reduces publicity to 1% or so
19:19<xQR>no, but i will, it just has some instabilities i want to fix first
19:20<@planetmaker>tbh, I'd never do that. Even where I'm interested. As I despise that practise frankly speaking
19:20<@planetmaker>"fixing first" is always an argument. But you get often way more feedback when you allow public review. Instead of only people whom you asked or who asked you
19:20<xQR>i know and take that into account - but as long as the 1% gives me enough input and shows me that there are still some bigger issues to solve
19:21<@planetmaker>*sigh*
19:21<xQR>right now i don't want more feedback, i get more than i can process :P
19:22<@planetmaker>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_early,_release_often
19:22<xQR>i know all those arguments ;)
19:23<@planetmaker>yeah... you're right. We should not have these "discussions"
19:23<@planetmaker>they only sadden me... more and more... demotivating
19:24<@planetmaker>maybe I should use agpl for everything
19:24<xQR>i just think that can be better applied to bigger projects - i have done the open source short release cycle thingy for that counter strike plugin
19:24<xQR>it was running on 2500 servers worldwide
19:24<wizetmaplestory>CS plugin?
19:24<xQR>guess how much help i got from the community
19:24<@planetmaker>none
19:24<xQR>in 4 years or so there was 1 person
19:25<xQR>who contributed 5 lines of code
19:25<xQR>which were written so badly i threw them away as they were
19:25<@planetmaker>but so?
19:25<xQR>and implemented the same feature with my own code
19:25<@planetmaker>what's the point you try to make with this?
19:25-!-HootzMcToke [~quassel@d50-92-68-219.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
19:27<xQR>i just don't see the benefit from a public OSS release right now
19:27<@planetmaker>is there harm?
19:27<xQR>btw it isn't even completely true that it's closed source
19:27<xQR>because most of the features today are written in plugins
19:27<xQR>and these plugins are always in source code
19:28<xQR>you can even change the code while xShunter is running
19:28<xQR>so i can add game features without restarting anything
19:28<xQR>or fix bugs
19:29<@planetmaker>so your only argument against an OSS release is "I don't see the point" and the implicit fear of "no-one will care"?
19:29<xQR>harm? actually no, i wanted to release but i was asked by other users not do it, so they could keep their advantage over other communities
19:29<xQR>:P
19:29<@planetmaker>rather the latter than the first?
19:29<xQR>and i was like *shrug* and still do private releases
19:29<xQR>:P
19:29<@planetmaker>ach...
19:30<@planetmaker>How petty
19:31<Mazur>Yes, that's exactly how for instance science gets all those breakthroughs.
19:32<xQR>now where did science get into my little hobby project i do for my own fun?
19:32<Mazur>As an example of the benefit of openly sharing.
19:33-!-TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into]
19:34<xQR>as i said, i haven't seen such benefit being there for small projects
19:34<xQR>and even OpenTTD is quite small
19:34-!-paks2 [~paksdm@24.231.66.199] has joined #openttd
19:35<@planetmaker>I'm really really saddened over and over. Where I look, NewGRFs, obviously also admin port, it's all like "I want my stuff, no-one change it, no-one look at it"
19:35<@planetmaker>where's our open and friendly community? Where is that sustainable?
19:36<@planetmaker>why are people like that while they play a game which works just the revers, where everything is open, everyone can contribute, everyone can use play and modify for free?
19:36<@planetmaker>I really, really, don#t get it...
19:36-!-roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.133] has joined #openttd
19:37<paks2>hey folks :)
19:37<xQR>it doesn't have to do much with the game though, more with what you are used to as a programmer
19:37<@planetmaker>probably it applies also to game scripts
19:37<@planetmaker>hi paks2
19:37<@planetmaker>it has to do all with the game, xQR
19:37<xQR>i have learned most of programming things in business, so within a company
19:37<xQR>so i am used to work in small teams of fixed persons
19:38<xQR>so that's how i like to work
19:38<@planetmaker>so you can. so all do. And?
19:38<@planetmaker>that's all no argument for the "mine, no-one see, no-one share, no-one modify"
19:38<xQR>the "what if everyone would do it?" argument is a very weak one
19:39<@planetmaker>?
19:39<@planetmaker>simple answer is: we'd have no game
19:39<@planetmaker>simple
19:39<paks2>any openttd editor users out there who can provide me with a quick pointer please? (sorry if I'm butting in here...)
19:39<@planetmaker>@topic get -3
19:39<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
19:40<paks2>i cant find how to change the track parameters in the editor - help please?
19:40<@planetmaker>what's a "track parameter"?
19:40<wizetmaplestory>i have a question
19:40<paks2>track type - electric/monorail/etc...
19:41<wizetmaplestory>why are there heliports before air?
19:41<@planetmaker>track type is a drop down menu. click and hold the track button in the main toolbar
19:41<wizetmaplestory>i got a question
19:42<paks2>that's my problem - the button is not there...
19:42<@planetmaker>you mean in the scenario editor?
19:42<@planetmaker>the SE doesn't allow track placement
19:42<paks2>i have road and water but no rail in the scenario editor
19:42<wizetmaplestory>is there someone that can awnser my question
19:42<@planetmaker>the SE doesn't allow to build company property
19:43<paks2>i'm not looking to lay track - just specify what types of track can be built
19:43<wizetmaplestory>now can someone awnser my question
19:43<@planetmaker>you can circumvent that, paks2, by loading the scenario as game, cheat money, build what you want, save game. Rename to scn file. And continue editing in SE
19:43<paks2>kk - will try
19:43<@planetmaker>ah. Well. Always all. It depends on the year
19:43<@planetmaker>and of course on the NewGRFs you chose
19:44<paks2>thanks much (1900 with a monorail...^^)
19:44<wizetmaplestory>now can someone awnser my question
19:44<@planetmaker>wizetmaplestory: learn some patience
19:44<wizetmaplestory>wtf, 1900 with monrails?
19:44<@planetmaker>paks2: that won't happen. It's introduced in... 1980s or so
19:44<wizetmaplestory>i wish we had that tech in the civil wr
19:44<wizetmaplestory>war'
19:44<paks2>that's why i'mtrying to chang it ...
19:45<@planetmaker>you won't even have rail vehicles in 1900 with the default game. Actually no vehicles at all
19:45<wizetmaplestory>and jets in WWII
19:45<xQR>planetmaker "mine, no-one see, no-one share, no-one modify" <-- that's not my philosophy, though
19:45<@planetmaker>xQR: you exercise it, though
19:45<xQR>i just don't make such a fuss about publishing the code somewhere
19:45<xQR>because it also means work
19:45<xQR>you have to provide the download somewhere
19:46<xQR>documentation
19:46<xQR>answer questions
19:46<wizetmaplestory>now can someone awnser my question
19:46<wizetmaplestory>damn i forgot it now
19:46<paks2>thanks & adios folks
19:46<wizetmaplestory>oh now i remember
19:46-!-paks2 [~paksdm@24.231.66.199] has quit [Quit: paks2]
19:46<@planetmaker>I offer you free repository and free download, xqr
19:46<xQR>you open the doors for many people that don't know how to properly report bugs anyway
19:46<xQR>it's not about such resources, i have space and traffic and an SVN server etc.
19:46<@planetmaker>free issue tracker, free release builds
19:46<xQR>it's about time
19:47<xQR>and lots of distraction
19:47<xQR>and only 1% of it being really helpful and qualified
19:47<Rubidium>yup, about time to join this channel ;)
19:47<wizetmaplestory>now can someone awnser my question
19:47<xQR>all others are like "meh why don't we allow 5 million players on the server? here i have made you a patch..."
19:47<@planetmaker>hi Rubidium
19:48<wizetmaplestory>hi nuclear material
19:48<@planetmaker>Rb is not radioactive. It's quite inert
19:48<xQR>Rubidium i am too drunk to code, so i thought i'd just chat a bit until i am tired enough for sleep :P
19:48<xQR>wizetmaplestory is at fault for getting me here
19:48<xQR>:P
19:49<xQR>about his "players need to be able to claim everything" proposal
19:49<wizetmaplestory>though this isnt the name i should be using actually
19:49<wizetmaplestory>once again, not ecerything
19:49<wizetmaplestory>there would obviously be a limit
19:49<xQR>i was simplifying :P
19:49<wizetmaplestory>LIMITS
19:49-!-wizetmaplestory is now known as TACOS
19:49<xQR>about his "players need to be able to claim everything WITHIN LIMITS" proposal
19:49<xQR>better?
19:49<xQR>:>
19:50<TACOS>sort of
19:50<TACOS>like maybe 1 or so, and not cities
19:50<TACOS>but maybe shopping malls
19:51<TACOS>and my company merge porposal
19:51<TACOS>proposal
19:51<TACOS>and why the FUCK do heliports exist when theres no air yet
19:51-!-Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
19:52<xQR>you can go there, sit at the airport bar and drink beer that costs 5 times more than normal
19:52<xQR>how would you do that without an airport?
19:52<xQR>or heliport
19:52<TACOS>lol
19:52<@planetmaker>one can also say it's made for you to wonder about
19:52<xQR>and that!
19:52<xQR>:)
19:52<@planetmaker>to test your attention
19:52<@planetmaker>to details
19:53<xQR>ssshht planetmaker, you can take it out now, someone finally noticed it
19:53<@planetmaker>and your self-control
19:53<xQR>after 5 years
19:53<TACOS>YAY
19:53<@planetmaker>oh damn. I guess it became standard
19:53<xQR>:/
19:53<TACOS>i figured out OpenTTDs biggest Easter Egg
19:54<TACOS>sadly, yogscast figured out Minecraft's biggest E egg
19:54<xQR>i think now i am tired enough, time for shower and bed
19:54<TACOS>7;54 PM EST
19:55<TACOS>aw fuck mosquetos
19:55<xQR>[01:55:00] • <TACOS> 7;54 PM EST
19:55<xQR>not quite
19:55<TACOS>well now its 7:55 PM EST
19:55<@planetmaker>mind your language...
19:55<Rubidium>xQR: I'd say wizetmaplestory has a far point under the circumstance the limit is <= 0 ;)
19:56<xQR>:)
19:56<xQR>planetmaker before i leave: maybe it pleases you a bit when i tell you that my plan is (and has always been) to eventually release it open source - i just want to get some instabilities out first
19:56<TACOS>i did get mac banned from luukland servers for talking too much
19:56<Rubidium>TACOS: probably because the setting "allow building infrastructure before there are vehicles for it" is on
19:56<xQR>and obviously i have to handle 524 warning messages about missing documentation
19:56<Rubidium>TACOS: unlikely you got mac banned
19:56<@planetmaker>TACOS: not too much. But probably too vulgar
19:57<xQR>considering the fact that i started at 800+ it's not even that bad, i haven't been THAT lazy
19:57<TACOS>but i wasnt talking vulgar
19:57<Rubidium>TACOS: unless you're at luukland's local network, but then you must be a real good friend and I would've just kicked you off that network
19:57<TACOS>an admin even said 200 lines more and im banned
19:57<@planetmaker>*shrug*
19:58<xQR>gn8
19:58<@planetmaker>night
19:58<Rubidium>evening planetmaker ;)
19:58<@planetmaker>:-) "evening"
19:58<Rubidium>oh, or evening xQR... maybe
19:58<@planetmaker>hm, for you yes
19:58<TACOS>im hungry
19:58<Rubidium>then go to Tims or so
19:59<TACOS>what if i cant and theres nothing to eat at home
19:59<xQR>[01:58:55] • OTTD-5 ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED! Player TACOS has earned achievement: Identity Crisis
19:59<xQR>just to let you know who you are talking to
19:59<xQR>be careful :P
19:59<xQR>in case you don't know who you are talking to - he doesn't know either :D
20:00<TACOS>LOL
20:00<Rubidium>TACOS: catch mosquitos and eat them
20:00<TACOS>and i found it in the IRC channel
20:00<TACOS>one thing is, i never catch the mosquetos
20:01<TACOS>imma make a microwave burrito
20:01<Rubidium>yuck... microwave food
20:03<TACOS>better than air
20:04<TACOS>shit im sweating
20:05<TACOS>why did the A/C have to catch on fire --
20:05<TACOS>-.-
20:05<TACOS>dont ask
20:05<Rubidium>gosh... were you a tour guide this morning on a Toronto tour bus?
20:06<Rubidium>if so, hi Morgan, and that's for making it a quiz why something was the way it is and always having the answer "because a fire"
20:11<TACOS>done making the burrito
20:11<TACOS>im not Morgan
20:12<TACOS>nor im i a scientist
20:12-!-KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-175-71.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:13<TACOS>my dog's panting and im worried my guinea pig could die of heat exaustion
20:13<TACOS>i heard ideal temperature for guinea pigs is 70-79 F
20:13<TACOS>its over 80
20:14<TACOS>85
20:14<TACOS>and its humid in here
20:14<Rubidium>it's only like 20 here
20:14<Rubidium>88% humidity
20:15<TACOS>F or C
20:15<Mazur>°C
20:15<TACOS>god only about 68 F over there?
20:16<TACOS>where do you live?
20:16<TACOS>canada?
20:16<TACOS>UK?
20:16<Rubidium>live != am
20:17<TACOS>oh shit you live in Cali?
20:17<TACOS>how the fuck is it hotter in Michigan than California
20:18<TACOS>but then
20:18<TACOS>this has my locatiob wrong
20:18<TACOS>location\
20:18<TACOS>so you probably live somewhere else
20:18<Rubidium>anyhow, later this week they forecast a 'feels like' temperature of 41C or 106F or 314K for here
20:18<Rubidium>though even now it's than Hell here
20:19<Rubidium>+hotter
20:19<TACOS>this says i live in Oregon, i live in Michigan
20:19<TACOS>what state or country do you live?
20:19<Rubidium>Utrecht
20:19<Rubidium>(although that's a province)
20:20<Rubidium>and I don't mean the better known town
20:20<TACOS>netherlands, thats actually reasonable the temperature difference
20:21<Rubidium>live != am
20:26<TACOS>OTTD-5 ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED! Player TACOS has earned achievement: Dissociative Identity Disorder
20:28<TACOS>lol joining stations wont work
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20:43<TACOS_>I FOUND A GLITCH!
20:44-!-TACOS_ is now known as TACOS
20:44<TACOS>February isn't shortened
20:44<TACOS>is anyone here?
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21:45<Mister_Argent>Quick question -- assuming both installs are vanilla, could a multiplayer save be moved between two OpenTTD installs?
21:46<Mister_Argent>and how well would a laptop with a dual-core Turion CPU and 4gb of RAM fare as a dedicated server?
21:46<Mister_Argent>*on a 1024x1024 map
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22:28-!-mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
22:31*Mister_Argent is currently hosting right now, if anyone wants to join him for some newbie TTD. Servname: Argentium!
22:31<Mister_Argent>My company isn't making much money right now and it's lost most of what it had because a player tried to set up air traven infrastructure before we had the financial strength to cover the overhead...
22:32<Mister_Argent>*travel
22:33<Mister_Argent>...oh crap, the lumber mill that was supposed to save my town closed down just as soon as i got a train moving to it
22:33<Mister_Argent>dangit
22:34<Mister_Argent>of course.
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23:32<Mister_Argent>Aaaaarg, my co-op buddy keeps taking loans even though i asked her to stop doing that last night
23:33<Mister_Argent>See, i don't care if we really need the money, i don't want to have to pay all that back later...
23:37<Mister_Argent>Arg. the AI is doing better than us...
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---Logclosed Mon Jun 18 00:00:26 2012