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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-06-19

---Logopened Tue Jun 19 00:00:29 2012
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02:26<@Terkhen>good morning
02:28<Zuu>good morning
02:30<NGC3982>< Mister_Argent> oh god the android port of OpenTTD is wierd
02:30<NGC3982>you can say that twice
02:30<NGC3982>sure, its neat that someone tried
02:30<NGC3982>but that port is so weird.
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03:53<NGC3982>http://www.getacoder.com/projects/programming_c_87390.html
03:53<NGC3982>sweet jessus
03:53<NGC3982>-s
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04:27<@planetmaker>hi
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04:29<NGC3982>morning pm
04:38<@planetmaker>hi NGC3982
04:41<NGC3982>hm, irssi didnt hilight the nick.
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08:14<kopoba>hello how to change curency in game it always want to use funt and dont want to save $ and how to lock minimum zoom level?
08:15<NGC3982>kopoba: what do you mean by "funt"?
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>kopoba: changes you make after the game start will only apply to that savegame, change things from the main menu if you want them to be remembered
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: pound, obviously
08:16<NGC3982>ob..viously?
08:16<NGC3982>:D
08:16<kopoba>ok curence problem is fixed
08:16<kopoba>what about zoom?
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: well, if you have minimal knowlege of language
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>kopoba: minimum zoom is in the advanced settings, which are available from the main menu as well
08:17<kopoba>latest version of ottd have too high zoom level
08:17<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: i have never heard the word "funt" before. the swedish translation is "fountain". :3
08:18<kopoba>what was default zoom level in priveous versions?
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: well, there's a so called "consonant shift", which goes f->pf->p
08:18<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: ah, i see.
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08:19<Eddi|zuHause>kopoba: the new levels are x2 zoom in and x4 zoom in. select "normal zoom" for the previous behaviour
08:19<kopoba>NGC3982 sorry for my bad english i was mean Pound on russian it sounds like funt
08:20<NGC3982>kopoba: no problem. :)
08:20<kopoba>Eddi|zuHause set maximum zoom level on 0?
08:20<NGC3982>russian is a fantastic language
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>kopoba: yes
08:21<kopoba>Eddi|zuHause ok thanks =)
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08:21<kopoba>NGC3982 http://translate.google.com/#auto|ru|Pound
08:21<NGC3982>? !
08:22<Markk>Deutsch is an fantastischen sprache.
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>only if you don't butcher it
08:23<NGC3982>Markk: kæft!
08:24<Markk>Eddi|zuHause: ofc
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08:35<Frank>hello... anyone here who could tell me something about callbacks for NoGo?
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08:38<@planetmaker>"something about callbacks for NoGo". Like that? :D
08:38<@planetmaker>@topic get -3
08:38<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
08:39<Frank>lol
08:39<Frank>sorry
08:39<Frank>;-)
08:39<Frank>no, I was studying a little on revision: 24290
08:39<Frank>I want to create a callback for: whenhousedestroyed
08:40<Frank>but I can't figure out where in this diff it gets the data from which it needs to detect it is "this action"
08:40<Frank>hope you understand what I mean ;-)
08:41<Frank>just for your info: revision 24290 adds a callback for ScriptEventExclusiveTransportRights
08:42<+glx>hmm so you want to add a callback ?
08:42<Frank>exactly
08:43<+glx>most things in the diff are generated automatically
08:43<Frank>for gamescripts to use
08:43<Frank>I know, but I just wanted to check what exactly was added coding wise...
08:43<+glx>the real callback part is in town_cmd.cpp
08:43<Frank>but every diff which adds a callback looks the same
08:43<Frank>but I can't figure out where it hooks a specific function...
08:44<+glx>+ AI::BroadcastNewEvent(new ScriptEventExclusiveTransportRights((ScriptCompany::CompanyID)(Owner)_current_company, t->index));
08:44<+glx>+ Game::NewEvent(new ScriptEventExclusiveTransportRights((ScriptCompany::CompanyID)(Owner)_current_company, t->index));
08:44<Frank>yeah
08:44<Frank>just wanted to paste that one ;-)
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08:44<Frank>but in these lines, how does the script knows it's about "ScriptEventExclusiveTransportRights"
08:44<+glx>the game just fires events that can be catched by scripts
08:44<Frank>ah, is there a list of these events?
08:45<Frank>I tried to search this list, but until now couldn't find it...
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08:46<+glx>http://noai.openttd.org/api/trunk/classAIEvent.html shows existing events
08:47<Frank>uhm, yeah, but these are the events that are allready in the AI framework... I actually want to add a event
08:48<Frank>which is actually done in revision 24290
08:49<Frank>to me it looks like the lines in town_cmd.cpp do the trick
08:49<Frank>AI::BroadcastNewEvent(new ScriptEventExclusiveTransportRights((ScriptCompany::CompanyID)(Owner)_current_company, t->index));
08:49<Frank>Game::NewEvent(new ScriptEventExclusiveTransportRights((ScriptCompany::CompanyID)(Owner)_current_company, t->index));
08:49<Frank>but I can't figure out where it catches the data from which is specific to this event (ExclusiveTransportRights)
08:50<Frank>to put it simple: how does this line knows that this event is triggered right now?
08:50<Frank>in-game
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08:55<+glx>these events are triggered in TownActionBuyRights()
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08:59<+glx>so you want to trigger your new callback in ClearTownHouse()
09:00<+glx>(the function that actually removes a house)
09:01<+glx>or in ClearTile_Town() if you want to trigger only for removal resulting on a player action
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09:18<Frank>allright glx, thanks, I will try :-)
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09:48<@Belugas>hello
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10:55<@peter1138>anyone for t-sql?
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11:04<@Belugas>yurk
11:04<@Belugas>touched it once, ten feet poll
11:05<@Belugas>not my cup of coffee, i'd say
11:05<@Belugas>hello sir, btw
11:05<@peter1138>got a performance problem :-(
11:05<@peter1138>hi :-)
11:06<@peter1138>so ... between '2012-06-01' and '2012-07-01' ... is fast
11:06<@peter1138>but ... set @sdate = '2012-06-01' set @edate = '2012-07-01' ... between @sdate and @edate ... is slow
11:08<SpComb>you forget the optimizer voodoo dance
11:10<@peter1138>yeah but
11:12<@peter1138>yeah but
11:12<@Belugas>have you tried select @sdate = '.. instead of set?
11:13<@Belugas>not sure if it would make a diff. both area about assignments
11:13<@peter1138>nope
11:13<@peter1138>but
11:13<@peter1138>i just tried making @sdate and @edate parameters to an sp
11:13<@peter1138>and that ... works... wtf?
11:14<@Belugas>maybe the system was accessing global value on each row evaluation?
11:14<@Belugas>while in sp, i's local to the proc
11:14<@Belugas>dunno, just thinking randomly
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11:33<+glx>it's MS :)
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11:48<Anpa>Hi
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13:17*NGC3982 thinks about building a grf where passengers stimulate oil rig production.
13:18*Alberth proposes to use NML for that purpose
13:20<@planetmaker>hullo Zuu: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=57878&p=1029026#p1029026
13:23<Zuu>great
13:31<Zuu>It would be great if someone who more recently worked with the Swedish translation (eg. the translator who requested the change) take a look at your suggestion and comment on it. I might simplify things too much just because I've not though so much about these problems recently.
13:34<@planetmaker>I assume it's the same Joal as in the forums. Or so I hope. But you're right, I should reply by e-mail, too
13:36*FLHerne wonders what the traffic light suggestion thread is for :o
13:38<FLHerne>It seems to have very little apparent purpose :-(
13:38<frosch123>it's the reincarnation of the highway thread
13:39<FLHerne>I never found out what that was, either :P
13:43<@Alberth>the never-ending quest to make OpenTTD a realistic simulation of reality
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13:45<CIA-8>OpenTTD: translators * r24349 /trunk/src/lang/french.txt:
13:45<CIA-8>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-8>OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by OliTTD
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13:45<@Alberth>o/
13:45<frosch123>let's try to make the world an unrealistic simulation of openttd
13:45<Wolf01>evening o/
13:46<@Alberth>frosch123: isn't it already?
13:48<@Alberth>I am still not very rich, even though I play the real -world game for several decades already
13:48<frosch123>check the running cost parameter
13:48<NGC3982>im trying to find on what year the first xUSSR (the NewGRF) trains pops up?
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13:49<NGC3982>google didnt help this time.
13:49<NGC3982>:(
13:49<__ln___>Alberth: have you tried planting a thousand trees to gain popularity?
13:50<frosch123>NGC3982: enable engines never expire, advance to 3000 and check the purchase list for introduction dates
13:50<@Alberth>I must say I haven't, but I don't do that in OpenTTD either :p
13:50<FLHerne>If I owned a small hill, I'd spend ages reshaping it with 45° angles :P
13:50<__ln___>... or building a tunnel from netherlands to india to gain money
13:50<NGC3982>frosch123: oh, neat. thank you.
13:51<@Alberth>there is money in India?
13:52<@Alberth>FLHerne: that would not match reality, the height is 1/2 the width, so the angle should be 22.5 degrees
13:52<Sacro>hmm
13:53<FLHerne>45° on the horizontal ones anyway
13:53<@Alberth>:)
13:53<FLHerne>Or perhaps not, as nonperspective has to be retained...
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13:54<FLHerne>Presumably strange shaping would be required to make that work :-)
13:54<@Alberth>obviously the way we buy rectangular pieces of land is broken
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14:42*FLHerne came up with a better (?) DNS hierarchy: http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2925511&cid=40372121
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i just realized that vancouver has the same latitude as southern germany...
14:53<Zuu>What is the proper place for creating a thread about a scenario that uses GS? The scenario forum or GS forum? Or one in each?
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14:55<@Yexo>I'd say it depends on what you want to show
14:56<@Yexo>it it's about a nice scenario that uses a GS as sideline in the scenario forum, if it's a show of your GS just packed as a scenario in the GS forum
14:56<Zuu>I think I will go to the scenario forum to see if it can give some interest of scenario creators to use GS.
14:56<@Yexo>maybe create a locked post in the GS forum pointing to the thread in the scenario forum?
14:56*Mister_Argent is finally getting a hang of the game!
14:57<Mister_Argent>quick question, though. in a desert map, how much food does a town need to get for it to display as "Food: DELIVERED" in the town details window?
14:57<@Yexo>1 ton per months, unless that changed recently
14:57<Mister_Argent>ah.
14:58<Mister_Argent>this town has delivery vans and a train going to it dropping off food, but that's not apparantly enough...
14:58<Mister_Argent>http://i.imgur.com/fIZUf.png
14:58<@Yexo>if you use a GS it depends on that
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>Mister_Argent: you need water as well, during the same month
14:58<Mister_Argent>ah. yeah, it's grown a bit -- it was 1,500-ish when i took control.
14:59<@Yexo>I don't see any town trains/trucks in that image
14:59<Mister_Argent>also, yeah, there's separate train lines for water/food/goods/diamonds -- Inefficient, but it pays a bit more :p
14:59<@Yexo>are you sure one has arrived this month?
14:59<Mister_Argent>yeah, the trucks are coming from the nearest food processing plant, which is 3 towns away
14:59<Mister_Argent>same detail with the train
14:59<Mister_Argent>the issue isn't so much the food as the distance
15:00<Mister_Argent>Also, the Bakewell 300 is AWESOME
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>Mister_Argent: distance is irrelevant, you need to make sure the trains arrive often enough
15:01<Mister_Argent>what i'm getting at is that 'There's only one train and one van, but it isn't arriving enough because of the distance'
15:01<FLHerne>Get more trains then :P
15:01<Mister_Argent>and vans :P
15:02<Mister_Argent>i'm trying to delibarately make Dendtown bigger -- it's already the largest town on the map, but i want it to be a city.
15:03<Mister_Argent>is ferrying oil from rigs to processing plants a good source of profit, or should i keep things more on-shore?
15:08<FLHerne>Ships are fun :D
15:12<@planetmaker>Mister_Argent: if you mean 'city' just the normal way: sure. But if you mean it in the sense of the game which has towns and cities: not feasible.
15:12<@planetmaker>Some towns are (depending on settings) chosen on map creation to become 'cities'. And that means nothing more or less than that they start out bigger and might grow a bit faster.
15:12<@planetmaker>(all other conditions being equal)
15:13<FLHerne>planetmaker: It's a 'city' already, looking at screenshot...
15:13<@planetmaker>ok :-) I didn't see any screenshot
15:13<Mister_Argent>ah. well, what i'm going for is higher population
15:14*FLHerne wonders why there are so many ultra-inefficient stations :P
15:14<FLHerne>At Dendtown, I mean
15:15<Mister_Argent>the inefficiency is intentional :P
15:15<Mister_Argent>Longer tracks -> more profit.
15:15<Mister_Argent>also, i'm lazy.
15:16<@planetmaker>Mister_Argent: longer tracks != longer distance between station signs. Only that matters though
15:16<Mister_Argent>ah.
15:16<FLHerne>I'm referring to potential train throughput, not distance :-)
15:17<FLHerne>Why not just have one combined station, rather than 4 small ones?
15:17<Zuu>planetmaker: am I right that I should direct any request to manually set dependencies of bananas to R. or T.?
15:17<Mister_Argent>...eh...well, i wasn't quite thinking ahead when i set the first station up.
15:18<@planetmaker>Zuu: no and yes. Best place is our info@ address. But de-facto that might be true
15:19<Zuu>Ok, I'll send an email there.
15:19<FLHerne>Not so hard to expand them...are you using individual single-track lines for everything?
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15:20<Mister_Argent>aside from one or two stations, yes.
15:20<Mister_Argent>in retrospect, my infrastructure has severe efficiency issues :P
15:21<Mister_Argent>On the other hand, this is my first single-player game where i haven't crashed and burned violently within the first decade.
15:21*FLHerne is a member of the 6-track-mainline-to-everywhere fraternity :D
15:21<FLHerne>Ah well, each to his own :-)
15:22*Mister_Argent has ,512 right now and that's slowly accumulating.
15:22<Mister_Argent>$184,512
15:23<FLHerne>:-(
15:23<FLHerne>Get some more then! :P
15:23<Mister_Argent>if i didn't spend anything or repay the starter debt i'd propably have closer to $600,000 something
15:23<Mister_Argent>yeah. i'm gonna sit back and watch some twin peaks while the cash builds up
15:23<Mister_Argent>...or maybe restart in a less violently inefficient way.
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15:57<frosch123>Zuu: does it matter which steel mill is delivered?
16:00<Zuu>frosch123: Any of the two on the main island is okay.
16:00<Zuu>You can also deliver to both and the script will sum up the production.
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16:00<frosch123>ok :)
16:01<@planetmaker>that sounds like a nice scenario :-)
16:02<TrueBrain>Zuu: done (FYI)
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16:03<Zuu>TrueBrain: Thank you
16:06<Zuu>Its fairly easy to cheat on, but for now I think its good enough to be released and those who play SP will as always have to decide on the rules themself.
16:07-!-Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
16:07<Zuu>You could for example collect lots of iron ore in a station over several months and then deliver it. Or you could take the challenge and stay away from such tactics.
16:13<frosch123>hmm, scenarios make it actually more obvious what settings are not company settings, though they should be
16:13<@Alberth>good night
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16:15<Zuu>After making that scenario, I realized that it would have benefited from BaseCost mod with increased cost of terraform. Still I hope the incentives to reach the goal is high enough compared to trying to connect the islands yourself.
16:16<Zuu>frosch123: Any setting in particular that you have in mind?
16:16<frosch123>currently i encountered that the service interval settings are not my default ones
16:17<frosch123>oh, an ai started
16:17<frosch123>"idleMore" :)
16:18<frosch123>Zuu: the first cheat i would have thought of would be to increase the ship limit
16:18<Zuu>Yep, I could have tricked with the savegame/scenario state so that the GS make that AI start before I upload the scenario to bananas, but I havn't done so yet.
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16:22<frosch123>330/345
16:23<Zuu>but you already got the AI started news message?
16:23<frosch123>i did not notice any news
16:23<frosch123>i just was watching the debug gui to check the goal progress
16:23<frosch123>and noticed that there is an ai as well
16:23<Zuu>When you reach the goal, the GS will use all those money in the IdleMore company to raise land. As the API doesn't permit a GS to raise land for free.
16:24<frosch123>oh
16:27<frosch123>interesting animation
16:27<Zuu>yep, I though so too :-)
16:27<frosch123>hit the goal randomly before connection the last industry
16:28<frosch123>wasn't it possible to scroll the viewport?
16:28<Zuu>I didn't actually play test it, but perhaps the goal should be a bit higher then.
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16:28<frosch123>well, the production varies quite a lot in my vase
16:28<Zuu>Its possible in SP. So yes, I could do that.
16:28<frosch123>most of the time 150
16:28<frosch123>sometimes 0
16:28<frosch123>now 390 once
16:28<Zuu>ok
16:31<Zuu>I guess the scenario is a bit shallow in the sence that there is no further goals afther you connected the two islands. But at least it shows what you can do with the IdleMore trick :-)
16:32<frosch123>well, the funds are also quite high :)
16:33<frosch123>anyway 4 years for the goal
16:33<frosch123>slightly less
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16:50<@Terkhen>good night
16:51<frosch123>hmm... google suggests me to update to a more modern browser, which one might that be? :p
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16:58<Wolf01>'night all
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17:10<Rubidium>afternoon!
17:13<__ln___>you're suffering from jetlag or something
17:14<Zuu>technically I'd say its also after noon here :-)
17:15<Zuu>at least if you split "afternoon" apart.
17:15<Rubidium>pff, it's not even evening yet
17:20<Rubidium>and it's hot in he re
17:22<Rubidium>33 °C (feels like 43 °C)
17:22<frosch123>at least you are still using sane units :)
17:23<NGC3982>33C in the late evening?
17:23<NGC3982>i cant sleep in anything over 17C.
17:23<Rubidium>low last night was 20
17:25<Zuu>Although officially using sane units, that country where Rubidium is got plenty of imported products with imperial units.
17:26-!-brambles [brambles@79.133.200.49] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:27*Zuu learnt that the hard way when wondering why the food took so long time to get ready in the stove. :-)
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17:28<Zuu>s/stove/oven/
17:28<NGC3982>:)
17:30*NGC3982 stretches Zuu 8 furlongs long, 10 cables wide and 40 thou thick.
17:30<Rubidium>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfhmacGktQQ (dutch though)
17:31<Rubidium>football is boring though (at least until the last quarter/half)
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17:47<Starkdop>hi everyone
17:47<Starkdop>i've a question
17:47<Rubidium>42
17:48<Starkdop>i creating a website for the francophone community of openttd
17:49<Rubidium>you're aware of http://www.openttd.fr/ ?
17:49<Starkdop>and i would like to know if can i copy the design of openttd.org
17:49<Starkdop>no
17:49<Starkdop>i create a new website
17:49<Starkdop>openttd-fr.com
17:50<Starkdop>yes
17:50<Starkdop>but
17:50<Starkdop>it's grave to make an other website?
17:51<FLHerne>how is a .com address appropriate for a site for a non-commercial game?
17:51<frosch123>copying the website directly has little use. it is supposed to get a french translation itself
17:51*FLHerne finds such things annoying :P
17:51<frosch123>FLHerne: it means com-munity :)
17:51<Starkdop>@FLHerne yeah, .org it's better
17:51<FLHerne>frosch123: :D
17:53<Starkdop>i'm bad in webdesign and the design of openttd.org is cool
17:54<Starkdop>is it a bad idea to make an other francophone website? (with a server)
17:54<Starkdop>A la limite y pas des français ici ? Ca sera mieux pour se faire comprendre ;)
17:56-!-guru3_ [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
17:57<Starkdop>and openttd.fr is sooooo long to load, the design is... bad and it would be nice to remake a new website
17:58-!-TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido]
17:58<Rubidium>I don't think creating a second site is a good idea as it will only split the community making both smaller
17:59<Starkdop>i thinks like this too
18:01<Starkdop>but, i feel openttd.fr is dead
18:02<Starkdop>I was motivated :D
18:03<Starkdop>i have an other idea
18:04<Starkdop>I ask to the admin of openttd.fr if can i remake the website, and become the coder...
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18:04<cornishpasty>FLHerne: .com stands for .COol Man
18:04<Starkdop>because i've already started the conception of the website
18:11<frosch123>night
18:11<Zuu>Starkdop: If you feel the site is slow, it might help to donate towards a faster server.
18:11-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4b14.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:11<Zuu>Fast servers tend to cost money.
18:12<Zuu>Of course, also the way the site is coded has a large impact on the speed.
18:13<Starkdop>i know
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18:14<Starkdop>so
18:14<Starkdop>if course, if a create a new openttd.fr, it will divided the french community
18:14-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5642.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
18:15<Starkdop>and there aren't many people in the community of openttd, in the world i mean
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18:24<+glx>of course openttd.fr is slow, it's a home server
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>my precious uptime :(
18:26<+glx>pff and muxy is never on this chan
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>glx: we kicked him once, and he never came back?
18:27<+glx>Starkdop: you can try to reach muxy on epiknet #openttd chan (he's the server owner)
18:28-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>my logs say he was here this year
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18:57<Mister_Argent>is 117 Tonnes of Ore good for a coal mine?
18:58<Sacro>No
18:58<Sacro>Coal mines tend not to dispense ore
18:58<Mister_Argent>...er, clicked on another mine adjacent to it
18:58<Mister_Argent>anyway, 108 tonnes of coal
18:58<NGC3982>a year?
18:58<Sacro>yearly that's terrible
18:58<Sacro>monthly isn't amazing
18:58<Mister_Argent>"Production last month: 108 tonnes of coal"
18:59<Mister_Argent>ah. i'll keep looking, then.
18:59<Sacro>it's not high
18:59<Sacro>high would be 140/160ish
18:59<Mister_Argent>is there a way to sort mines by production rate like how you can sort towns by population?
18:59<Sacro>Yes
18:59<Sacro>industries list
18:59<Sacro>sort it
18:59<Sacro>though it doesn't filter by type afaik
18:59<NGC3982>Mister_Argent: its not particurly high. though, you can calculate the worth of "much" or "low" simply by looking on how much coal your average train can pull a month.
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19:03<Mister_Argent>Oooh, just found a nice one
19:03<Mister_Argent>162 tonnes of coal last month
19:03<Mister_Argent>with two power plants nearby
19:04<Sacro>that's better
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20:02<Mister_Argent>quick question -- do the radio antennas do anything?
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21:30<Mister_Argent>as it turns out, linking the two largest cities on the map via rail is a GREAT way to make money.
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21:30*Mister_Argent has ,750
21:30<Mister_Argent>$555,750
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22:00<Mister_Argent>argh. my plane for 'clear across the map' flights just broke down.
22:00<Mister_Argent>Curse you, Yate Hautigan.
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