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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-06-26

---Logopened Tue Jun 26 00:00:42 2012
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01:27<NGC3982> /w 2
01:27<NGC3982>oops.
01:27<NGC3982>morning
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03:46<Wonszcz>On multi I accidently screwed up someone's train that was 20 squares long and was full of oil.
03:47<Wonszcz>I will die,
03:47<szaman>someone will choke you
03:47<Wonszcz>God damn it, you cannot choke a snake.
03:47<Wonszcz>At least not to death.
03:48<Wonszcz>It can only spit.
03:48<szaman>wolf carried many times, they carried him once
03:48<szaman>:P
03:49<Wonszcz>szaman, I curse you.
03:49<szaman>do you feel train to me? :]
03:50<Wonszcz>No.
03:50<Wonszcz>I will kill you using a bloody altar.
03:50<NGC3982>:(
03:50<Wonszcz>I have a sacrifical knife.
03:50<Wonszcz>Also a lamb.
03:51<Wonszcz>Because little babies are too mainstream.
03:52<Wonszcz>I mean.
03:52<Wonszcz>If I would keep making baby sacrifices.
03:52<Wonszcz>Then the human population would greatly decrease.
03:53<Wonszcz>szaman.
03:53<Wonszcz>I will use you as the sacrifice.
03:54<Wonszcz>Okay I died.
03:54<Wonszcz>A giant 20 square train has ran over me.
03:56<NGC3982>:3
03:56<Wonszcz>Stop smiling.
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04:03<Wonszcz>Damn.
04:04<Wonszcz>My computer apparently loves white text on BSOD
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04:33<szaman>Wonszcz: sorry, switch hanged
04:35<szaman>Wonszcz: population would greatly decrease because of GMO
04:35<szaman>would/will
04:36<NGC3982>eh, wat.
04:50<@Terkhen>good morning
04:51<NGC3982>morning TH
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05:07<Eddi|zuHause>the forum seems awfully slow today
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05:09<GBerten2936>it's like..unresponsive
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05:10<NGC3982>works neat around here
05:12<FLHerne>Here, too :P
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06:00<WonszczA>Damn.
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08:26<@Belugas>hello
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08:33<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: does it still feel slow? it just started to lag for me..
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: haven't noticed anything
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11:06<Wonszcz>Anyone head of Happy Wheels?
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11:46<kopoba>hello is there any way to automaticly run alias when i join to server?
11:50<@planetmaker>kopoba: if you play on luukland, you play on hacked servers. Please ask for advise there. We cannot support unreleased custom modifications of OpenTTD
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11:56<kopoba>planetmaker i play with client that i download from here http://www.openttd.org/en/ its not official?
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12:00<@planetmaker>kopoba: yes. That's the official client. But the servers are hacked. And OpenTTD does not require anywhere any login.
12:01<@planetmaker>Thus the login via the chat function is their hack.
12:01<@planetmaker>server-side
12:02<kopoba>ok
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12:02<kopoba>how to run alias when i join to server?
12:02<@planetmaker>...
12:02<@planetmaker>ask them!
12:02<NGC3982>:D
12:02<@planetmaker>most likely: there is no way
12:02<kopoba>they are not developers of opttd
12:03<@planetmaker>exactly. But their server fakes to be an official OpenTTD version while it is not.
12:03<@planetmaker>We cannot support it
12:03<@planetmaker>Ask them about their servers
12:03<@planetmaker>They have a custom game. Which is not ours. It just claims to be
12:03<kopoba>i dont ask of support server-side
12:04<@planetmaker>... their servers require actions from the client which OpenTTD DOES NOT SUPPORT
12:04<@planetmaker>ask them how to do it
12:04<@planetmaker>Our clients support normal servers just fine.
12:04<@planetmaker>Normal OpenTTD servers require no login.
12:05<@planetmaker>Normal OpenTTD does not even know what alias is
12:05<@planetmaker>Thus OpenTTD does not support it
12:05<@planetmaker>I also don't know what alias is
12:05<@planetmaker>or might be
12:05<kopoba>you wrong
12:05<kopoba>planetmaker http://wiki.openttd.org/Console_Aliases
12:06<@planetmaker>ehm... you know that that's probably a quite different one?
12:06<kopoba>why?
12:06<kopoba>Create an alias named <name> bound to <command>.
12:07<@planetmaker>"You can define aliases ingame or in one of the scripts files" which implies you have ssh to the server
12:08<@planetmaker>if you want it in the script file
12:08<kopoba>http://wiki.openttd.org/Scripts
12:08<kopoba>nothing about ssh
12:09<kopoba>i need somthing like this but on join the server
12:09<@planetmaker>otherwise use http://wiki.openttd.org/Console_Commands and follow the description...
12:09-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.180] has joined #openttd
12:09<@planetmaker>the console offers no events
12:09<@planetmaker>which "on connect" would imply. You can try to modify your local script...
12:10<kopoba>where can i read more about that scripts
12:10<kopoba>wiki page have too small amount of information
12:11<@planetmaker>in the related readme.txt... bin/scripts/readme.txt
12:11<kopoba>ok thanks
12:12<@planetmaker>+network scripts:
12:12<@planetmaker> should be used to set client optimization settings:
12:12<@planetmaker> - 'on_client.scr' is executed when you join a server [all clients]
12:12<@planetmaker>so there you might be lucky indeed. And ... I (re-)learnt about those scripts :-P
12:12<@planetmaker>I guess I should say thank you :-)
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12:16<kopoba>no problems you are welcome =)
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12:44<frosch123>Question of the day: ‮?ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus tneilc CRI ruoy seoD
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>depends on your definition of "proper"
12:47<frosch123>well, can you select my line properly?
12:47<Rawh_>Copy/paste is no issue there
12:48-!-Rawh_ is now known as Rawh
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>i have trouble selecting the D if i don't want to select the start of the next line
12:49<frosch123>my texteditor can not handle it
12:50<frosch123>the text is shown correctly, but i cannot select anything, nor position the cursor
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>if i start at the Q i select until :, and then it starts at the ? and goes backwards
12:50<frosch123>that's how it should be :)
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>if i paste that in the textbox, then i can edit it/move the cursor the same way
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>so, except for the minor annoyance of selecting the "end" of the line, i'd answer with "yes" then
12:51<Rawh>I can just doubleclick any sentence and it copies it all, regardless of what is on the line
12:51<Rawh>18:51 < Rawh> I can just doubleclick any sentence and it copies it all, regardless of what is on the line
12:51<Rawh>Irssi is nice :)
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12:52<Eddi|zuHause>Rawh: sure, doubleclick selects a word and tripleclick the line. but that wasn't really the point
12:53<frosch123>Rawh: selecting the whole line is boring :)
12:53<Rawh>Works for me :)
12:53<Rawh>Eddi|zuHause: just as easy as ^W deletes a word
12:53<Rawh>I really cannot live without that ability on irc anymore
12:53<Rawh>Makes typing so much faster :P
12:53<frosch123>the other day i tried kde3 kate, upon selecting it reordered the letters so that the selection is connected in one box
12:54<Rawh>I hate word2010 for closing my file with ^W :(
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>i hardly ever need to delete a word...
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>Rawh: that should be configurable...
12:54<frosch123>ctrl+w closes editor tabs in about every editor :)
12:54<frosch123>though i am surprised that word supports it
12:55<frosch123>i would have expected ctrl+f4 or something like that
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember ever using Ctrl+W anywhere
12:55<frosch123>but, maybe ctrl+f4 is a win 3.11 hotkey :p
12:55<Rawh>ctrl+w closes windows, I use it all the time for the abundance of windows I tend to have open
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>i remember closing editors with Ctrl+K,Ctrl+D
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>or Ctrl+K,d
12:56*frosch123 still uses joe on console :)
12:56<Rawh>"joe" ! :)
12:56<Rawh>Ctrl-K,X here
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>x is without saving?
12:56<Rawh>Yep
12:56<frosch123>while joe is actually totally broken, it's the console editor i am most used to :p
12:56<Rawh>Most used shortcuts: Ctrl-a,d and Ctrl-a,n
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>it was called "Borland Binary Editor", which my father used.
12:57<frosch123>basically i am used to the bugs :p
12:57<Rawh>I use "joe" over "vi" or "vim" whenever I can :)
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>which he said he got from some pascal 2.0 or so
12:57<Rawh>Even go as far as to export the editor=joe variable outside scripts
12:57<Rawh>Or just put it in .bash_profile when I'm lazy enough
12:58<frosch123>hmm, yeah... borland editors also used ctrl+k stuff
12:58<frosch123>i think i forgot all hotkeys
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>it's derived from starwriter commands, afaik
12:58<frosch123>f2 save, f3 open, ctrl+k+f search, ctrl+k+g replace?
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>well, the important ones are ^K,b and ^K,k for block selection, and ^K,c ^K,v for pasting
12:59<frosch123>f4 debug to line, f7 step, f8 next, f9 run
12:59<Rawh>Thinking about the good old days with WP :)
12:59<Rawh>With the extra piece of paper with commands layed over the F keys :)
12:59<frosch123>ah, kc and kv, yeah, i remember :)
13:00<frosch123>i wonder why all those commands used a k first
13:01<Rawh>Design thing I would say, just like why most windows commands use their own windows key and apple uses their apple key
13:01<Rawh>It's something that they do to stand out against the rest, one might say :)
13:01<frosch123>ctrl+f7 is watch variable i think
13:01<frosch123>what might have been f5 and f6...
13:02<frosch123>hmm, let's start dosbox and check
13:02<Rawh>Hehehe
13:02<frosch123>ctrl+f8 is breakpoint
13:03<frosch123>ctrl+f2 is kill
13:03<frosch123>alt+f5 is show screen
13:04<frosch123>ah f5 and f6 are maximize and next window!
13:04<frosch123>f10 is menu
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: there were other commands
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>there was ^O,p for printing
13:05<Rawh>Which might be related to the alt-o,p now?
13:05<frosch123>i am currently looking at turbo pascal 7
13:05<Rawh>Or simply using the printkey on the keyboard
13:05<Rawh>No idea :)
13:05<frosch123>alt+0 shows a list of window
13:05<Rawh>frosch123: borland delphi or the older versions?
13:06<frosch123>not delphi
13:06<Rawh>I used to learn programming within borland delphi *shudders*
13:06<frosch123>i own borland pascal 7 with bonus disk :)
13:06<frosch123>borland pascal 7 is the thing before delphi 1
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>Rawh: pascal/delphi is a rather good language for learning
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>i "acquired" pascal 7 in school
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>and later delphi 2
13:07<frosch123>it can compile for dos realtime, dos protected mode and win 3.0
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>and i had delphi 6 somewhen later
13:08<frosch123>i also have delphi 2, it's even a bundle with delphi 1
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>i made some of my numerics homework with delphi (console application)
13:09<frosch123>hehe, me too :) later i used matlab :p
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>that was when i wasn't familiar with C, and i got bored of Java quickly. then i "met" python :)
13:11<frosch123>ah, my turbo pascal editor has a custom hotkey to run emtex \o/
13:12<Rawh>Eddi|zuHause: I had it mostly for the silly buttons and the code underlying such a button, visual programming they call it these days I believe
13:12<Rawh>Such as "action on press" "action on doubleclick" etc..etc..
13:12-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
13:12<Rawh>Basic stuff I guess, I'm more of an infrastructure engineering type, not programming :)
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13:28<Wolf01>evening
13:29<frosch123>http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/last?count=200 <- haha, my line breaks the baglog completely
13:30<frosch123>it has a unbalanced-RTL-control-code-injection vulnerability
13:30<frosch123>‬maybe this fixes it
13:31<frosch123>yup, it does :)
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13:33<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't look "fixed" to me
13:33-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>but hovering over the link somewhat tempoarily fixes it
13:38<frosch123>how does not fix it for you?
13:39<frosch123>does the text continue rtl after my pop-rtl-code?
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>the lines don't start with the beginning of the line
13:39<frosch123>yeah, but only between my first rtl line, and the "this fixes it"
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>the time is at the end
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>no, exactly that it does not
13:40<frosch123>it does for me in firefox and in opera
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>"study; financial crises preferrably start in september and in election-years"
13:41<frosch123>kate already cancels the rtl code at the end of the line
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>your end code definitely doesn't work in konqueror
13:46-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:49<frosch123>ottd's in-game text viewer also cancels them after each line
13:56<FLHerne>Is it not possible to have a combined road/tram bridge?
13:56-!-devilsadvocate_ is now known as devilsadvocate
13:57<frosch123>it is
13:57<frosch123>build a bridge of any type, then add the other type
13:57<frosch123>use the normal road/tram tool
13:57<frosch123>not sure whether it also works with the bridge tool
13:59<FLHerne>Can't build road here:must demolish bridge first... :-(
13:59<FLHerne>Perhaps I misunderstood your explanation...
13:59<frosch123>first use the bridge tool to build a bridge
13:59<frosch123>then use the normal road/tram tool on the bridgehead to add the other type
13:59<frosch123>same works for tunnels
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14:00<FLHerne>Works on one bridgehead, but not the other :o
14:01<FLHerne>Thanks :-)
14:01<frosch123>it works on both
14:01<frosch123>but you have to click the outside part
14:01<frosch123>like when building a half road
14:02<FLHerne>Ah, alright
14:02<frosch123>though for remove it also works in the inner side :p
14:02<frosch123>seems a bit inconsistent :)
14:02<FLHerne>...
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14:27<Eddi|zuHause>weird. there is a tiny section of "rainbow" in the sky, but there is no rain
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>and it's also in the wrong place, relative to the sun
14:28-!-Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd
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14:28<@Alberth>oi
14:31<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: either aliens, or oil
14:31<frosch123>hai albert
14:31*Alberth prefers aliens
14:32<@Alberth>Is there a game script for industry-industry subsidies I can borrow?
14:33<frosch123>today at work i named a method "TurnIntoAliens" :p
14:33<frosch123>ask zuu
14:33<frosch123>i think zuu wrote all gs available, except maybe one
14:34<@Alberth>programming an alien game by accident? :)
14:36<frosch123>no, just the usual trouble with not finding a fitting name for something i can think of, but not describe properly :)
14:38<@Alberth>I don't think it survives peer review if I try that :)
14:39<frosch123>oh, it's no totally random name. i can make up reasons to call the stuff "aliens" it deals with :)
14:39<Zuu>frosch123: I only wrote 4 out of 6 on banans :-)
14:40<frosch123>hmm, now that i think about it... maybe "zombies" fits better than "aliens"
14:40<frosch123>wasn't "zombie" the name for stalled tasks which idle and never exit?
14:40<Zuu>but non of them does industry-industry subsidies. I haven't made anything with subsidies yet.
14:42-!-Bad_Brett [~Bad_Brett@90-227-32-82-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
14:43<@Alberth>frosch123: zombie is a dead process
14:43-!-Bad_Brett [~Bad_Brett@90-227-32-82-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit []
14:43<@Alberth>but at least at Unix, its parent has not read the exit status, so it lingers in the process table
14:44<@Alberth>Zuu: pity, I'll make a trivial one myself then :)
14:45<Zuu>local ind = GSIndustryList(); ind.Valuate(GSBase.RandItem); ind.KeepTop(2);
14:46<Zuu>Then create a subsidie from ind[0] to ind[1]
14:46<@Alberth>I don't know how a zombie compares with 'the undead'
14:46<Zuu>Althoug I beleive you cant do ind[0] or ind[1] exactly.
14:46<@Alberth>Zuu: perhaps they should have a cargo in common? :)
14:47<Zuu>but ind.Front() and ind.Back() or so should give them.
14:47<Zuu>Alberth: Thats a good requirement :-)
14:47<@Alberth>Zuu: can you build OpenTTD from the source?
14:49<frosch123>Alberth: zuu is also a known patch writer :)
14:49*Alberth takes that as a 'yes' :)
14:50<frosch123>maybe he is just good at writing patches without syntax errors :)
14:51<Zuu>Alberth: Yes
14:51<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/cargo_monitor.patch
14:52<@Alberth>I am playing with a game script extension that allows you to monitor industry-industry deliveries
14:53<@Alberth>This code extends OpenTTD in that direction, I need a script for proof of concept :)
14:53-!-DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-25-149.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
14:53<@Alberth>If you are sufficiently bored..... :)
14:56<@Alberth>if not, that's fine too
14:56<Zuu>I was bored yesterday. But not so much bored today :-)
14:57<Zuu>Currently I'm reading your patch though to get an idea what it does.
14:58-!-mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-21-99.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:03<Zuu>Alberth: Which svn revision/hg rev is your patch against?
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15:04<@Alberth>HEAD
15:04<@Alberth>r24358 to be precise
15:05<@Alberth>Basically, you construct a 32bit number with industry/company/cargo-type
15:05<@Alberth>then give it to monitoring of deliveries or to pickup
15:06<@Alberth>then poll regularly for the amount
15:06<Zuu>I think you docummented it quite well in the patch.
15:06<@Alberth>each poll will reset the count
15:07<@Alberth>yeah, I am somewhat of a doxymentation addict :)
15:08<@Alberth>it seemed like a gap in the current functionality
15:08<SpComb>monitor?
15:08<Zuu>Yep, indeed. Currently you cannot see deleveries to end point industries.
15:09*SpComb thinks rrdtool graphs
15:09<Zuu>And for others you have to resort to 'last month production'
15:09<@Alberth>SpComb yeah, the thing you're watching, or perhaps you can watch cargo deliveries too :)
15:10<@Alberth>yep, but that's not company oriented
15:13<Zuu>Alberth: The convention for Lists in the API is the class that returns a list in the constructor has the suffix "List". Thus ScriptCargoMonitorDeliveries would be ScriptCargoMonitorDeliveryList
15:15-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd
15:17<Bad_Brett>Hey! Is there a FAQ on how to make a music pack (not the midis - the obm-file) ? And is there any way I can set a default music pack in newGRF?
15:18<@Alberth>thanks, patch updated
15:18<frosch123>Bad_Brett: http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/4e6c7e54d400/docs/obm_format.txt
15:18<Zuu>I'm working on a test GS for you now :-)
15:19<frosch123>Alberth: is it possible to extent it for towns?
15:19<frosch123>just lke subsidies
15:19<Bad_Brett>Thanks!
15:19<frosch123>hmm, actually, it also needs some way to detect industry closure to remove stall items
15:19<@Alberth>sounds like it is possible :)
15:20<@Alberth>frosch123: doesn't matter much, it is a binary tree, so you hardly notice it still being around
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15:21<@Alberth>also, the script tracks those things too probably
15:22<@Alberth>it'd probably need some hacking in the subsidies so the code can be shared
15:22<frosch123>well, i think the state should also be saved. it's weird if scripts need a month to "boot". and when it is saved, it should clean removed industries
15:22<frosch123>or it will return weird stuf when the industry id is reassigned
15:22<@Alberth>frosch123: my idea was that the script reads all data on save
15:23<frosch123>isn't that quite hard for the script?
15:23-!-mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-20-25.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
15:23<frosch123>then it has to process everything during autosave
15:23<@Alberth>and re-initializes the monitored items on reload
15:23<frosch123>as the stuff is lost once queried
15:23<frosch123>and scripts have very limited instructions in the save method
15:24<@Alberth>fair point, needs being looked at then
15:24<@Alberth>maybe generalize subsidies instead?
15:24<frosch123>it would also be inconsistent, since everything else (like town grow goals, or even texts in the town gui) is saved
15:24<@Alberth>(or also)
15:25<frosch123>Alberth: you mean a pool item for every connection?
15:25<frosch123>sounds a bit cargodest-ish
15:25<@Alberth>we have a pool for subsidies?
15:26<frosch123>sure, what else?
15:26<frosch123>though i think it is quite limited in size
15:26<frosch123>256 items only :)
15:26<frosch123>quite a lot actually
15:26<@Alberth>well, it seems a bit stupid to have subsidies and cargo monitoring which mostly do the same sort of thing, but are separate things
15:27<@Alberth>256 sounds like sufficient to me
15:27<frosch123>subsidies only monitor the connection of a single cargo between two specific objects
15:27-!-DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-25-149.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:27<frosch123>while you seem to monitor everything for a destination
15:27<frosch123>don't you?
15:27<@Alberth>my code also monitors only what the script says it should monitor
15:28<@Alberth>only particular combinations of industry/company/cargo-type
15:28<frosch123>hmm, well, if the script wants to monitor a single cargo between a single source and a single industry, then subsidies are similiar
15:29<@Alberth>ieg all coal you bring to the Foo power plant
15:29<frosch123>but, if it wants to monitor all supplies for a industry, or all destinations for a industry it would have to spawn douzen such subsidies
15:29<frosch123>to monitor them all
15:29<frosch123>and it would also have to constantly spawn new ones for new industries
15:29<@Alberth>euhm, at most 5 :)
15:29<frosch123>[21:29] <Alberth> ieg all coal you bring to the Foo power plant <- but subsidies do not count "all coal"
15:30<frosch123>they only count coal from a single specific source
15:30<frosch123>unless you add a special value for "any source"
15:30<frosch123>but then you cannot tell from which in the script
15:31<frosch123>so, i think your stuff is quite different from subsidies
15:31<@Alberth>you may be right, I have to check it
15:32<@Alberth>ok, the patch just exploded in complexity, as usual :)
15:33<frosch123>sorry :)
15:33<@Alberth>oh, np, it only gets better :)
15:37<@planetmaker>hello
15:37<frosch123>hi pm :)
15:37<@planetmaker>Bad_Brett: music is not newgrf-able iirc
15:38<@planetmaker>only sound is
15:39<frosch123>you can add ambient sounds :)
15:39<frosch123>though likely not very useful for music
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>the maximum file size is probably too low
15:44<frosch123>2 GB wave data is also many hours
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't it something like 64k?
15:44<frosch123>the problem is more that you have no real checks whether it is running, or whether you have to start it or smiliar
15:44<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: grf container 2
15:44<@planetmaker>Bad_Brett: 'best' documentation probably is openmsx for the obm file format. Though... I recall having some doc somewhere. But I don't recall. Did you check readmes and related documentation of openttd?
15:45<frosch123>planetmaker: i linked that one already
15:45<@planetmaker>openmsx? sorry, I skipped some backlog :-)
15:45<frosch123>no, the readme :)
15:45<@planetmaker>:-)
15:46<frosch123>so, do your osx irc client and browser handle bidirectional text properly? :p
15:47<@planetmaker>I didn't find the line which you referred to. Can you give time?
15:48<frosch123>http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/last?count=300 <- you might find it easier in there
15:48<frosch123>select my question of the day
15:48<@planetmaker>21:32 frosch123: [18:44:14] Question of the day: ?ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus tneilc CRI ruoy seoD
15:49<@planetmaker>hm... the visible is different from what is pasted from what is sent and received ;-)
15:49<frosch123>at least your paste stripped them
15:49<frosch123>ah, so you saw it correctly, but the paste removed the control codes? :)
15:49<@planetmaker>In my input view it looked right. In the backlog it looked like "Does the" as last part and here... strange
15:50<frosch123>what does your browser do with the log?
15:50<@Terkhen>good night
15:50<frosch123>does it cancel the rtl at the end of th eline
15:50<@Alberth>good night Terkhen
15:51<frosch123>or is everything reversed from 18:33:53 till 19:21:32 ?
15:51<@planetmaker>FF13 does show a normal English question
15:51<@planetmaker>a completely normal line
15:51<frosch123>planetmaker: select part of the line :)
15:51<@planetmaker>»» 18:33:53 < frosch123> Question of the day: ?ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus tneilc CRI ruoy seoD
15:51<@planetmaker>:-)
15:52<frosch123>that paste stripped the control codes again :)
15:52<@planetmaker>yup
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: fyi, that's how it looks in my browser: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Bildschirmfoto14.png
15:53<@planetmaker>ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: and it doesn't stop at your "that fixed it" line
15:53<@planetmaker>like part of it :-)
15:53<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: that's also completely different to mine
15:53-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
15:54<+glx>18:33:53 < frosch123> Question of the day: ‮?ylreporp txet lanoitceridib troppus tneilc CRI ruoy seoD
15:54<+glx>copy paste works for me
15:55<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/bidirect.png <- that's what firefox and opera display for me
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: what i find the most interesting is that it puts interpunctation at the beginning of the line, and the rest normal
15:55<frosch123>which i think is correct
15:55<@planetmaker>http://imagebin.org/218512 <-- you see that I really wondered what you meant :-) I guess the answer is 'yes' to your question
15:55<frosch123>i used the force-RTL-independent-of-char-origin code
15:57<+glx>I see exactly like planetmaker
15:58<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/bidirect2.png <- that's the selection behaviour
15:58<frosch123>start from left, then jump to the right
15:59<frosch123>so for both pm and glx, the browser cancels the rtl at the end of the line
15:59<@planetmaker>probably same browser ;-)
15:59<frosch123>which also do some of my editors and ottd, but not my browsers :p
16:00<Zuu>Alberth: Oh, my test GS makes OpenTTD hang. somehow the CallStack only shows dll files for some reason...
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>what's "end of the line" for a browser?
16:00-!-plastics [~plastics@c-69-138-42-222.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>a </p> or <br/> tag?
16:00<+glx>firefox 14 for me
16:00<@planetmaker>hm, 13.0.1
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>html is supposed to ignore whitespace
16:00<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/bidirect.png <- btw. in that case the rtl continues until 19:20:36, where i inserted at pop-code
16:00<+glx>(beta)
16:00<@Alberth>Zuu: :(
16:02<Zuu>Tries with a debug build instead. The hang happen during world generation. Probably at the phase when script get to run before the game starts. So its not like I need to run lots of time with the GS to prodece it.
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16:04<@planetmaker>frosch123: now, that looks interesting ;-)
16:04<Zuu>Alberth: EncodeMonitor keeps calling itself.
16:04<frosch123>planetmaker: the behaviour of kde3 kate was also quite interesting
16:05<Zuu>You have two EncodeMonitor functions and the one that get called by the GS calls itself instead of the other one.
16:05<@planetmaker>what is that like, frosch123?
16:05<@Alberth>Oh, interesting :)
16:06<Zuu>That is what it looks like. I'll try again with a break point to catch it before the stack has overflown :-)
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16:06<Zuu>Yep, its calling itself in an infinite loop
16:06<@Alberth>Zuu: add "::" to force it to use the global function
16:06<frosch123>when selecting "day: properly?" it would reorder the text and show "[start of selection]day: properly?[end of selection]Does your IRC client support bidirection text"
16:07<frosch123>i.e. it splits the rtl text in the middle and moves the stuff on the right so that the selection is a continuous block
16:07<frosch123>kde4 kate does not behave like that, nor any other software i tried :)
16:07<@Alberth>Zuu: return ::EncodeMonitor(industry_id, company, cargo);
16:09<@planetmaker>that must look weired :-)
16:09<Zuu>Alberth: Yep that fixes it. Now I need to hunt more bugs in my own code. :-)
16:09<frosch123>yeah, but it allows continous selection without these off-points between rtl/ltr text where the selection jumps to something totally different
16:10<frosch123>so, i wondered whether it was intentional :)
16:10<frosch123>but it was also confusing since the text was moving all the time :p
16:23<+michi_cc>frosch123: You RTL text is interesting in my xchat :) I see it properly, and if I copy the *whole* line I get I including the control code. If I select inside the reversed area, the selection still moves left to right, but the selected characters are shown and copied in the physical order.
16:24<frosch123>good point, that's also the case for me
16:25<frosch123>so, force-direction codes are actually weird to handle
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16:25<Zuu>Alberth: http://junctioneer.net/openttd/CargoMonitorTestGS-v1.tar
16:26<frosch123>i wondered whether those codes could be used to write numbers correctly
16:26<frosch123>i.e. rtl
16:26<Zuu>It does not display any delivery/pickup > 0 even if I pickup/deliver
16:26<Zuu>pickup/delivery is displayed in the AI/GS debug window
16:27<Zuu>It creates a Subsidy between the two industries that it monitors for each cargo that it monitors.
16:27<Zuu>It only monitors pickup at the source industry and delivery at the target industry.
16:27<Zuu>Maybe I should check one time more that pickup/delivery is not mixed up somewhere :-)
16:29<@Alberth>looking good at first sight
16:29<@Alberth>thanks
16:30<@Alberth>now I have to fix my patch with respect to the new ideas :)
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16:31<Zuu>Hmm, it does actually now show up.
16:32<Zuu>At the time of delivery, it shows both delivery + pickup and the same value.
16:32<@Alberth>pickup administration is handled during delivery
16:32<@Alberth>otherwise you get all kinds of corner cases with feeder stations etc
16:32<+michi_cc>frosch123: Which control code did you use? There's at least two types I can see.
16:33<@Alberth>or possibly even round-trip delivery to the originating station for another pick-up :)
16:34<frosch123>michi_cc: "start of right-to-left override" and later "pop directional formatting"
16:35<@Alberth>Zuu: the idea was not to use it for monitoring subsidies, but only servicing of some single industry
16:35<@Alberth>ie "get 500 coal from X mine
16:35<@Alberth>or "bring X tonnes stuff to industry Y"
16:35<Zuu>I realized this. Its sort of redundant to monitor both source and dest side and you have no idea that it was transported between thoes industries.
16:36<Zuu>The Subsity in this GS is more for visualization of which industries that it monitors.
16:36<+michi_cc>There's also right-to-left embedding, but I don't really see the difference. Third is the RTL mark, but that seems to be more like local modification for e.g. punctuation.
16:36<Zuu>A cheap way to create a news item which is clickable and have all details in it. :-)
16:36*Alberth nods
16:37<frosch123>michi_cc: the other marks to not force rtl for latin characters for me
16:38<frosch123>though the embedding thing still messes with selections :)
16:39<Zuu>Alberth: http://junctioneer.net/openttd/CargoMonitorTestGS-v1b.tar <--- displays more details in the Monitor() function. But perhaps you are familar enough with Squirrel to modify the Monitor() function to get out the details that you need.
16:39<Zuu>Note that you shouldn't have both 1 and 1b in OpenTTD search path at the same time as both register as version 1.
16:40<@Alberth>ok :)
16:40<Zuu>At least you shouldn't do that if you want to predict which one it takes. :-)
16:40<@Alberth>yeah, I sort of copy/paste stuff until it works, and with some educated guesses, I usually get it working
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16:41<@Alberth>I cannot really be bothered to really study squirrel :p
16:41<Zuu>1b monitor and display both pickup and delivery at both industries.
16:42<@Alberth>hmm, 3,3k wood at a feeder station does not look good :)
16:43<@Alberth>Zuu: I'll have a look, and will figure it out. thanks for your efforts. I'll let you know when I have news
16:43<Zuu>Great
16:44<@Alberth>oh, the other side of the water also has 3k wood in storage :)
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16:45<@Alberth>let's do that another day :)
16:45<@Alberth>good night all
16:45<frosch123>night albert
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16:53<Wolf01>'night
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17:01<frosch123>night
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 27 00:00:45 2012