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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-07-06

---Logopened Fri Jul 06 00:00:58 2012
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02:23<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:53<__ln__>hello ludde
03:53<ludde>hi
03:55<NGC3982>morning.
04:02-!-TomyLobo [~foo@91-66-115-249-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd
04:02<Sacro>whoah, morning ludde
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04:37<@planetmaker>moin
04:42*NGC3982 had a pet bird named ludde
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06:45<gsagsa>hellow
06:45<gsagsa>anybody here
06:45<gsagsa>rsa
06:45<gsagsa>ggggggggggg
06:45<gsagsa>hgfd
06:45<gsagsa>s
06:45<gsagsa>4356
06:45<gsagsa>47
06:45<gsagsa>56
06:45<gsagsa>435
06:46<NGC3982>what is your problem?
06:49-!-cmircea_ [~cmircea@86.124.213.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:52<gsagsa>http://shrani.najdi.si/?2o/pL/2v0BeENB/2012-07-06-124752.jpg
06:52<gsagsa>this....
06:54<@planetmaker>and the problem there is?
06:55<@planetmaker>that you save screenshots as jpg?
06:55<@planetmaker>or something else?
06:55<gsagsa>look
06:55<gsagsa>what graphic i have...
06:55<@planetmaker>describe
06:55<gsagsa>its bad graphic i cant play like this
06:57<@planetmaker>as I still don't know how you ended up there... OS? NewGRFs? fullscreen or not? 8bpp or 32bpp blitter?
06:57<@planetmaker>native or non-native resolution of your display?
07:07<NGC3982>"what a blessing that #science has finally discovered the God particle. now the #atheists have no excuses for their denial of Jesus Christ!"
07:11<@planetmaker>but you know how it got its name?
07:11<@planetmaker>it was supposedly a book title about it "The god damned particle" which the publisher changed to "The God particle"
07:14<NGC3982>true, i have the lederman book, and i read it way to often.
07:15<NGC3982>although, this proves that science never, ever should use anything but science in their presentation.
07:15<__ln__>science and comic sans
07:16<NGC3982>yes, i noted that in the last webcast
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07:42<dihedral>hello
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10:11<@Belugas>hello
10:22<dihedral>hello Belugas
10:23<@Belugas>ho.. a dihedral! hello you :)
10:26<dihedral>:)
10:28<dihedral>SmatZ :-)
10:28<dihedral>or whoever can tell me what the cost of (int64)CalculateCompanyValue(c) actually is? :-)
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10:32<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: sounds like someone didn't convert that to Money?
10:32<dihedral>that is the part used in the console command 'companies'
10:32<dihedral>in a printf
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>so what is wrong with it?
10:33<dihedral>the _current_ company value is calculated ones every 3 months as it is an 'expensive' process, at least that is what i was told
10:34<dihedral>the clients recalculate the current value more often (e.g. when displaying the company info window)
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>ah. so you want to know the code-complexity
10:34<dihedral>the server also calculates the value when promted to do so on the console (command 'companies')
10:34<dihedral>but i am not quire sure if it's wise to use it in the admin interface
10:34<dihedral>aye
10:35<@planetmaker>why shouldn't the admin interface have access to it?
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>so you want to make a repetitive automatic tast with adminscript, and wonder whether that will interrupt the server performance?
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>*task
10:36<dihedral>i wonder if it is a nessesary additional load, yes
10:36<dihedral>planetmaker, additional laod ;-)
10:36<@planetmaker>well, yes. But the admin knows that. Would be better to externalize that, from a load perspective
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: run the server with "make run-prof" [or similar], and check?
10:36<dihedral>the interface already has access to company->old_economy
10:37<@planetmaker>but then the question is, how bad it can get
10:37<dihedral>exactly
10:37<dihedral>15 companies, 15 bots, every poll and every scheduled update will cause the code to run
10:37<dihedral>and i find that a little extensive (at the moment)
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: i presume it runs once over the whole map, and once over all vehicles, stations, etc.
10:38<@planetmaker>well. there can be only one GS. Not exactly sure how many admin-scripts. But still. One?
10:38<dihedral>up to 15 connections to the admin interface are accepted
10:38<@planetmaker>but calling it for all properties and vehicles... that might be excessive
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: since admin-interface is not bound to a single script, you can have as many scripts in parallel as you want
10:39<@planetmaker>not quite :-)
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>you can connect and disconnect as needed, so 15 connections is not a hard limit
10:40<dihedral>yikes - never thought of that :-D
10:40<dihedral>that is a lovely idea
10:40<dihedral>connect, get info, disconnect :-D
10:40<@planetmaker>outch
10:41<dihedral>i was actually thinking of a proxy :-D
10:41<dihedral>thankfully one needs the 'password' to connect
10:42<dihedral>the function loops over all stations and all vehicles
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't sound like too huge of an overhead, if you don't run it multiple times per day
10:43<dihedral>it runs over every station and checks if it belongs to the current company
10:43<dihedral>if you have 15 companies, you access every station and every vehicle 15 times
10:44<dihedral>it /could/ be a lot
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10:58<dihedral>if the value is updated once per quarter, per company - that is 15 calles in 3 months
10:59<dihedral>if i recalculate the value for each bot, for each company for a weekly scheduled update, that equals to 2700 calles
10:59<dihedral>180 times more
11:01<dihedral>i'd be better of creating the network packets, and then sending the exact same packet to each connection
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11:12<nchrj>hallo!!!
11:12<dihedral>hello
11:12<andythenorth>lo
11:13<@Terkhen>hi again
11:13<nchrj>what are you doing?
11:14<dihedral>thinking
11:14<nchrj>uhhhh
11:14<@Terkhen>trying to configure my stupid mail
11:15<nchrj>hehe
11:15<FLHerne>interweb grazing, here :-)
11:15<nchrj>:p
11:16<andythenorth>FISH :P
11:17<FLHerne>At least some productivity is occurring, then... :P
11:18<andythenorth>no, I was just saying the word
11:18<andythenorth>I'm doing actual work work
11:18<dihedral>andythenorth, suuurreee ;-)
11:19<andythenorth>money on it :P
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13:06*LordAro waves
13:07*Alberth waves back
13:09<LordAro>i think i'm getting there with the patch
13:11<@Alberth>in that case, you are making better progress than me
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13:24<Wolf01>hello o/
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13:26<frosch123>night
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13:28<@Alberth>hello
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r24377 /trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: slovak - 166 changes by Rhianon
13:48<LordAro>"<Alberth> in that case, you are making better progress than me" <-- oh? and which patch would that be?
13:49<@Alberth>any of them :(
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13:58<LordAro>:(
13:58<LordAro>hint as to what you a reworking on? :)
13:59<LordAro>s/a reworking/are working/
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>that should be s/ re/re / for proper confusion :)
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14:02*Terkhen is also not working in the scenario format lately :(
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14:03*Eddi|zuHause is not working on CETS
14:03*Eddi|zuHause is not really working enough on work either...
14:04<LordAro>how much would it matter to moving the a certain fairly important variable to public, rather than private?
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>that question is not cryptic enough
14:05<LordAro>ScriptScanner instances
14:05<LordAro>i need them outside the AI/Game scope-thingy
14:06<@Alberth>add a method to query it???
14:07<@Alberth>LordAro: and I am working on RCD file generation and cargodestination monitoring
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14:08<LordAro>"cargodestination" FreeRCT or OTTD?
14:08<@Alberth>neither, it's OpenTTD :p
14:09<@Alberth>and it's not cd*st related :D
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>you mean like making a list of all possible destinations?
14:09<@Alberth>it is intended to be an extension of the game scripts to allow monitoring of deliveries and pickups of cargoes
14:10<@Alberth>so it can say "pick up x tonne of cargo from FOO plant", and check when you have done that
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>so something like the industry chain viewer extended for script usage?
14:11<LordAro>sounds fun :)
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>a propos, can the industry chain viewer actually show the industries (clickable?)
14:11<@Alberth>this is about concrete actual FOO plant in BLA town, not industries at global level
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14:11<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: ?
14:11<@Alberth>ie show on map?
14:12<@Alberth>moin andy
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: the industry chain viewer has boxes [ coal mine ] etc., inside these boxes a list of all coal mines on the map, and if i click on it, it opens the industry window for that industry
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>so subsections of the industry list
14:13<@Alberth>ah, like that
14:14<@Alberth>not sure how useful it would be, the idea is that you select a cargo or an industry type, and then use "shown on map" ie it is a filter-like thing
14:14<@Alberth>so you can search for a useful combination of industries at the map
14:14*andythenorth -> logs :P
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>sure, but sometimes a list is better than a map, and sometimes the other way around
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>PS: can the industry map get a button to open the industry chain window?
14:16<andythenorth>PS: can the industry chain viewer be fixed? :)
14:16<@Alberth>it gets overlap with the industry list window perhaps
14:16<@Alberth>andythenorth: better fix newgrfs? :D
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see that as a problem
14:17<andythenorth>cb14B and 14C it respects does not
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>there's overlaps between the global vehicle list, and the vehicle list for each station.
14:17<@Alberth>yeah, but there is no list of vehicle types too
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>yes, in the autoreplace window and in the depot window
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>and in the vehicle list window
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14:19<@Alberth>tbh I am starting to see more sense into moving the minimap into the main display
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see the relation
14:19*andythenorth does
14:19<andythenorth>just make it an overlay on the map grid
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>and there is this "zoom out x64" patch
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>and the cargodist overlay
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>which, in combination, should do that
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14:21<Eddi|zuHause>but that was really not the point i was making. i wanted a textual representation of the industry chains, not a visual one
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>(because that we already have)
14:22<@Alberth>so I click at a coal mine in the industry chain window and get 50 mines, then what?
14:22<@Alberth>call the bomb squad?
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>scrolling?
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>display max 10 and add a "show more" button?
14:23<@Alberth>yeah yeah, say you have a high enough screen or small enough letters
14:24<@Alberth>ie what is A coal , B coal, C coal etc adding?
14:24<@Alberth>particularly, as I never know where A B or C is at the map
14:27<@Alberth>imho you use the industry chain window when you want to get an idea of how industries are related. If you want to know which ones are useful to exploit, open the industry list, and sort on type
14:27<@Alberth>or am I missing something?
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that the industry list has no filters on type
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>(in that case you could make "open in list" similar to "open in map")
14:30<@Alberth>you could so 'sort on type' today
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>"sort" is something very different to "filter"
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>what if i wanted all coal mines, sorted by production per month?
14:30<andythenorth>the industry list is very frustrating
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>or all coal mines, sorted by rating?
14:31<andythenorth>on any large / busy map, it's rubbish
14:31<andythenorth>needs filter widgets or such
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14:31<@Alberth>filter thingies should be easily addable imho
14:32*Alberth ponders adding it to the wanted feature list
14:32<andythenorth>let's ship something!
14:32*andythenorth has been shipping things this week
14:32<andythenorth>it's fun
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. what was very troublesome in YACD was "give me all industries that deliver to this industry" (only partially related to this discussion, though)
14:32<andythenorth>not shipping things is very very boring
14:33<@Alberth>andythenorth: not fishing things?
14:33<andythenorth>nope
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>EInsufficientShips
14:33<andythenorth>ship filters!
14:34<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: simutrans has that list in the industry window ;)
14:34<andythenorth>what other thingy did we invent this week?
14:34<andythenorth>there was some GUI thing we talked about
14:34<@Alberth>the solution to FS#5218?
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: yes, but YACD only has a "delivers to" list. and that was also very messy for more than 5 entries
14:35<andythenorth>not #5218
14:35<andythenorth>something that Alberth knew about :P
14:35<andythenorth>oh I remember, buy menu
14:35<andythenorth>we shipped "don't care" :)
14:36<andythenorth>which is fine
14:36*Alberth denies knewing about buy menus, I had to look it up :p
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14:42*andythenorth -> curry
14:42<andythenorth>bye ;)
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14:45*LordAro loves linker errors :(
14:46<LordAro>also 'undefined references'
14:51<dihedral>oi :-)
14:52<dihedral>@logs
14:52<@DorpsGek>dihedral: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
15:10<LordAro>anyone wanna help? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1516/
15:11<LordAro>errors when linking. @ ContentInfo::GetTextfile()
15:11<LordAro>with the BaseMedia<> functions
15:23<LordAro>bump :P
15:23<Rubidium>looks like you need to instantiate some methods
15:23<Rubidium>see the bottom of the _func.hpp I guess
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15:25<dihedral>uh :-) a Rubidium
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15:38<Zuu>Hmm, why is the date of content not displayed in the interface? At least for AI/GS there is a meta property where you set the release date.
15:40<Zuu>How am I going to know which of two different NewGRFs that use two different version patterns from the same author that is newest?
15:40<Rubidium>by introducing a third version
15:41<Zuu>Aviators Aircraft vs General avi8tion
15:43<Zuu>hmm one of them have no parameters meta data, so it should be the older one then.
15:49<@planetmaker>moin
15:51<dihedral>oi
15:51*dihedral greets the pm ;-)
15:51<@planetmaker>hi dihedral
15:52<LordAro>Rubidium: you mean "base_media_func.h" ?
15:56<LordAro>ah, yes, you do :)
15:58<LordAro>but why is that necessary?
15:59<dihedral>is it ok to update cur_economy.company_value in CompaniesGenStatistics (economy.cpp)?
16:00<LordAro>(unrelated to dihedral) YES.
16:00<dihedral>then the value can be used at multiple places - console command 'companies', game script, admin interface
16:01<LordAro>all are working except for scripts...
16:01*LordAro engages debug mode!
16:06<Zuu>I though that maybe I should give it a try to play with aircraft ranges to possible fix one or two of my AIs to handle it. However, even if I seem to use the latest av8 NewGRF and no other NewGRFs there is no range.
16:07<Zuu>Nothing in my openttd.cfg matches against "range" and I can't find anything in adv. settings that may disable it.
16:10<LordAro>YES. (again)
16:10*LordAro dances
16:12<Zuu>Oh, it actually did work, I was just blind. Didn't see the Range property as I assumed that it would have been added at the bottom of the unsorted property list.
16:17<LordAro>@fs 5236
16:17<@DorpsGek>LordAro: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5236
16:17<LordAro>ok, code review plox :)
16:27<Zuu>In the constructor of ContentTextfileWindow, why don't you use the generalized function to get BASESET_DIR etc?
16:29<Zuu>Couldn't you use GetContentInfoSubDir() there to reduce the length by about 10 lines of code?
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16:37<LordAro>Zuu: almost certainly, i added that function after i did the window :)
16:40<Zuu>Btw, did you see my patch in FS#5206 that un-hack the break-on-log feature a bit and generalize it to also support Game Scripts. When it is added, it will be fairly easy to implement AIBase::Break() to break the AI execution (possible only for AI devs)
16:43<Zuu>break in this case means that you can ressume the AI by clicking on the contiunue button in the AI debug window.
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17:29<dihedral>what exactly is the aim of economy.infrastructure_maintenance
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>turning it off/on?
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17:34<dihedral>ops - reading does help :-D
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17:48<@Terkhen>good night
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17:49<@planetmaker>g'night Terkhen
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19:38<Wolf01>'night
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22:12<DDR>I'm back, and I come bearing gifts. http://www.timhunkin.com/94_illegal_engineering.htm
22:12<DDR>Well, a gift. A link!
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22:13<DDR>bbl, dinner.
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 07 00:01:01 2012