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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-07-16

---Logopened Mon Jul 16 00:00:11 2012
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02:30<@Terkhen>good morning
02:39<dihedral>good morning Terkhen
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03:57<__ln__>good dihedral, morning
04:12<dihedral>that was worth the effort, wasn't it __ln__ ?
04:13<__ln__>of course
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04:30<@Alberth>hi hi
04:31<kaylar>hello
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04:37<@Terkhen>I wonder if they think that IRC users do nothing besides checking the channel every 10 seconds
04:37<dihedral>:-D
04:44<@Alberth>depends on the channel :) #python with 700+ users, someone is bound to react soon :)
04:46<@Alberth>imho equally possible is that they don't understand IRC, and are just trying it, and it does not speak back within a 'reasonable' time :)
04:47<@Alberth>just like "he, what does this button do? .... oh, nothing"
04:49<telanus>:D
04:49<telanus>I see there isn't a nightly build since friday
04:51<@Alberth>since friday already? :o
04:57<Eddi|zuHause>nobody uses nightlies :p
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05:00<telanus>I do use nightlies
05:05<@Alberth>just build it yourself :)
05:15<dihedral>aye
05:16<dihedral>and then again, nobody uses nightlies :-P
05:16<telanus>is it compilable with VS 2010 Express?
05:16<@planetmaker>yes
05:17<@planetmaker>hello all :-)
05:18<@Alberth>hi planetmaker
05:18<@Alberth>planetmaker: do you know the state of coding the sprites in zbase?
05:19<@planetmaker>as far as I've seen the coding state is 0%
05:19<@Alberth>oke, that sounds like there is work to do yet :)
05:19<telanus>what tools do I need extra? only openttd-useful?
05:20<@planetmaker>and to answer your question yesterday(?): I'm definitely interested in helping. IMHO one one could either start by merging OpenGFX or by copying the relevant parts (just sprites + pnml + build) and then add via alternative sprites the new ones
05:20<@Alberth>a checkout of openttd
05:22<@Alberth>right, I don't understand some parts of that, but it sounds like a fun experiment to do :)
05:22<@Alberth>let's start with a checkout of both repos :)
05:22<@planetmaker>:-) yeah
05:23<@planetmaker>Alberth: what - IMHO - basically can be done: take OpenGFX. It's all in NML. Ignore it being build from scratch (e.g. don't create pngs from gimp sources)
05:23<@planetmaker>And then just adding the alternative_sprites block to the appropriate places
05:24<@planetmaker>I linked an (the only) example in the zbase thread where I already did that in OpenGFX itself for the large explosion
05:24<@planetmaker>that "just" needs doing hundret of times
05:24<@Alberth>something in that direction sounds like a plan :)
05:26<@planetmaker>it's IMHO also (much) easier than a newgrf approach. As it needs not the newgrf overhead
05:26<@planetmaker>and the required 8bpp are already coded
05:26<@planetmaker>and you see all progress immediately so to speak
05:26<@Alberth>you do?
05:26*Alberth is not running 32bpp afaik :)
05:27<@planetmaker>I do ;-)
05:27<@Alberth>ie another thing to do :)
05:27<@planetmaker>but that's actually an easy thing to change :-P
05:28<@Alberth>devzone doesn't like me :( "abort: stream ended unexpectedly (got 53678 bytes, expected 59828)"
05:28<@planetmaker>which repo, Alberth?
05:28<@Alberth>zbase
05:29<@planetmaker>hm. give me your ssh key. It's a http issue
05:29<@planetmaker>of huge repos
05:29<@Alberth>how big is it ?
05:29<@planetmaker>dunno :-) Big
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05:51*telanus hasstarted a compile. Hope it works
05:56<@Terkhen>telanus: there is a MSVC compiling tutorial in the wiki, made by Roujin IIRC
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05:57<@Terkhen>it should be in his user page
05:58<telanus>I followed this one: http://wiki.openttd.org/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008_Express_Editions
06:00<@Terkhen>that one misses the info for not having to specify the openttd useful folders with each new project
06:06<telanus><Terkhen> telanus: there is a MSVC compiling tutorial in the wiki, made by Roujin IIRC <---------------- can't find this one :(
06:07*Terkhen cant access the wiki now
06:08<@planetmaker>and... why don't you follow the VS C++ 2010?
06:08<@planetmaker>did you mind the differences to 2008?
06:09<telanus>there isn't a 2010 one on the wiki that I found
06:10<@Terkhen>planetmaker: there is no official tutorial
06:10<@planetmaker>Terkhen: but the hints wrt 2010 are just below that one. Listing differences to 2008
06:10<@Terkhen>ooh, that's new
06:11<telanus>yip followed that
06:15<@planetmaker>sorry, can't help further. I don't use windows
06:18<@Terkhen>I can help you when I'm back at home :P
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08:54<@Belugas>hello
09:03<@Alberth>hi
09:07<@Belugas>hello Alberth
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10:56<kmfx88>Is there a way to have the original building and trees in the latest open TTD?
10:57<@planetmaker>yes. I'd like to point you to the readme
10:57<kmfx88>1.2.1 that is
10:58<@planetmaker>it explains in detail where to put the original grf files
10:58<@planetmaker>then select them in the game options dialogue ingame
10:59<kmfx88>Ok. Thank you.
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11:11<@Alberth>hi
11:11<LordAro>evenings
11:13*telanus has given up on trying to build OpenTTD here :(
11:14<andythenorth>hello
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11:23<Ganga>sup
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11:26<@planetmaker>a clear case of 10s attention span :-)
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11:28<Eddi|zuHause>what do you mea... oh a butterfly
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>hey this one is great ;) especially the second part http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
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11:37<Elukka>it would be sweet if someone made BuildOTTD or something equivalent work for modern versions of the game
11:38<@planetmaker>feel invited to do so, Elukka
11:39<Elukka>yes, i know anyone can work on an open source project
11:40<Rubidium>I thought that's the whole problem, there are no sources for it
11:41<Rubidium>or it's built with some language that isn't used by much
11:41<Rubidium>s/much/many/
11:41<Elukka>all i was saying it'd be nice if there was an utility to easily build openttd with
11:41<Elukka>if i had the skill or inclination or the inclination to learn the skill to do it myself i'd be doing it already
11:41<Elukka>instead of saying it'd be nice :P
11:42<@Terkhen>I don't think that the MinGW tutorial is complicates
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>is that a case of "we should do X" where it meant "YOU should do X"?
11:42<@Terkhen>complicated*
11:42<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: well, anybody other than "me", usually
11:43<andythenorth>we should create an "OpenTTD ponies" websiter
11:43<@Terkhen>you could make a script for the whole process easily
11:43<andythenorth>-r
11:43*Rubidium used to have a 'compile service' that'd build patches against HEAD
11:44<@Terkhen>but IMO the tutorial by itself is simple enough
11:45<@Terkhen>telanus: did you try it?
11:45<dihedral>Elukka, for 2500 € i'll be your bitch for a week and build the service for you :-P
11:45-!-pugi_ [~pugi@host-091-097-004-184.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd
11:45<@Terkhen>s/it/the MinGW tutorial/
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11:48<telanus>Terkhen: yes tried but seems I couldn't get it to compile :(
11:48<Elukka>it's not like i demanded someone makes this thing for me
11:49<@Alberth>why bring it up in the first place?
11:49<Elukka>are suggestions, or even just musing, verboten?
11:50<NGC3982>verboten!
11:50<@Alberth>no, but they are so useless
11:50-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00887a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
11:50<NGC3982>best german:ish word in existance.
11:51<@Alberth>hi frosch
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11:51<frosch123>hai
11:58<Rubidium>dihedral: I hope he doesn't take your offer the wrong way ;)
11:58<dihedral>:-D
11:58<dihedral>then there would be a few zeros missing :-P
12:00<@Terkhen>telanus: which error did you get?
12:00*NGC3982 gets jiggy with it.
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: if you build it, they will come
12:05<telanus>Terkhen: I get a different one each time
12:06<telanus>Last time, it complained it couldn't dind unicode.h
12:06<Elukka>why is htere a suggestion forum?
12:06<Elukka>*there
12:06<telanus>before it couldn't find some other file
12:10<dihedral>so people have a place to write their stuff and nobody has to care, Elukka
12:10<dihedral>:-P
12:10<dihedral>basically keeping the other forums free of crap :-P
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>that is correct ;)
12:13<Elukka>so the idea is that nobody who isn't a coder on the project can have anything worthwhile to say
12:13<Elukka>i know anyone is free to join the project, but that does sound terribly insular
12:13<FLHerne>Elukka: Nobody who isn't a coder can have anything worthwhile to say unless they become a coder to fulfil their proposal, apparently :P
12:14<@planetmaker>Elukka: everyone is free and welcome and invited to bring forward his or her suggestions on improvement of whatever aspect bothers him or her
12:14<@planetmaker>For that purpose we DO have the suggestions forum
12:14<Elukka>okay, cool
12:14<@planetmaker>Contrary to popular believe it's even read
12:15<@planetmaker>But bringing forward a suggestion does NOT imply that anyone knowledgable about the code will immediately jump forward and say "great. I'll have it done tomorrow"
12:16<@planetmaker>That won't even happen with ideas which a person agrees with. Good things take time. Sometimes even considerable time
12:16<@planetmaker>(as in years)
12:17<Elukka>yes
12:17<@planetmaker>of course other things go very quick as well. And that heavily depends... on the code internals.
12:17<@planetmaker>and the motivation :-P
12:19<Elukka>i think suggestions on a project like this are less of a request of anyone to do something but rather a way to bring up issues the users have
12:20<@planetmaker>there's a difference between suggestion and bug...
12:21<@planetmaker>I disagree though that compilation of the project is an issue
12:21<Elukka>well, that was in reply to the notion that suggestions are 100% useless in every case and everyone should just shut up if they're not going to do it themselves
12:22*NGC3982 forgot a server running and realizes that a fair amount of inflation builds up in 1200 years.
12:22<@Belugas>this is utterly reductive to the real situation. some suggestions have been coded
12:22<Rubidium>making the same suggestion (again) usually is useless
12:22<@Belugas>not all, but some did
12:23<@planetmaker>NGC3982: discover min_active_clients
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: inflation stops after 170 years
12:23*Rubidium wonders how people will like it if that tool were written in labview which requires a 100+ MB runtime ;)
12:24<@planetmaker>haha, Rubidium :-)
12:24<@planetmaker>let's write it in scada
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12:24<Elukka>for the record i'm agreeing with you here planetmaker :P
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>i have a Siemens S300 here, maybe that helps :)
12:24<Rubidium>maybe I should make a qemu mips image that builds windows binaries ;)
12:24<NGC3982>planetmaker: and so, i did! \o/
12:25<@planetmaker>Elukka: usually wordings like "...someone could make..." produce results like "make it yourself"
12:25<Elukka>i just said it would be nice if x existed
12:25<@Terkhen>telanus1: you probably forgot the etc/fstab step
12:26<@planetmaker>you said "...if someone made BuildOTTD or something equivalent..."
12:26<@planetmaker>which implies a strong "not me"
12:26<NGC3982>x, on openttd? :3
12:27<@planetmaker>might be nuances, but that's how a "someone" usually comes accross and how "someone" is interpreted
12:27<@planetmaker>even when not intended
12:27<@planetmaker>(just explaining the response)
12:27<Rubidium>someone should make browser hotkeys configurable
12:27<@planetmaker>:-)
12:27<Rubidium>especially the ones in firefox so I can disable CTRL+Q
12:28<NGC3982>you guys are talking x and browsers
12:28<NGC3982>im confused.
12:28<Rubidium>it's awfully close to W
12:28-!-telanus [~telanus@196-215-173-106.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:28*NGC3982 drinks more bear-beer.
12:28<Elukka>okay, true
12:29<@planetmaker>as general advise: state what you like see changed. But don't imply that someone else should do it :-)
12:29-!-TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:29<@planetmaker>(but even then you can get the same response :-P )
12:29<@planetmaker>don't take it personal
12:29<Elukka>no, i wouldn't expect devs to do my bidding :P
12:30<@planetmaker>and agreed: a "do it yourself" response is not really nice
12:31<NGC3982>is this the same discussion i always fall in when flamewar stops after somebody have used "<random useless feature> would be nice to implement."
12:32-!-Coupon12 [4cb6f16c@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
12:33<Coupon12>Does anyone know how to edit the openttd source code in visual studio?
12:33-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A3BB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
12:33<NGC3982>Coupon12: there should be support for the files as it is, as far as i know.
12:33<NGC3982>oh, sorry.
12:33<NGC3982>never mind me, i didnt read "source code".
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12:34<Coupon12>I got the openttd-useful-4.2-any
12:34<@planetmaker>Coupon12: I suggest: open file(s). Edit at will :-)
12:34<Coupon12>also the svn
12:34<Coupon12>But I have to do the include directories and all that
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>Coupon12: in the svn you have the .sln files
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>in projects
12:35<Coupon12>ok i'll try and show you the errors
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>you open the one for your visual studio (8,9 or 10)
12:35<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/PJCFo.png <- is there something i miss here? the trains havent autoreplaced in a good while.
12:36<Coupon12>10
12:36<Coupon12>I get all these errors saying:
12:36<Coupon12>error C1083: Cannot open include file: '(some file goes here)': no such file or directory
12:36<Coupon12>when i try ti build
12:37<Coupon12>like png.h
12:37<+glx>that's in openttd-useful
12:37<Coupon12>I got that, but I don't see any of the include and library folders
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>then useful.zip is not in your library path
12:38<Coupon12>oh wait, i must ahv downloaded the wrong one
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12:46<Coupon12>I got the openttd-useful thing fixed
12:46<Coupon12>but now when i try to build i get 6 errors like this
12:47<Coupon12>Error 1 error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: static void __fastcall ScriptCargoMonitor::StopAllMonitoring(void)" (?StopAllMonitoring@ScriptCargoMonitor@@SIXXZ) C:\Users\Michael\Documents\junk\openttd svn\projects\game_instance.obj openttd
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12:48<Coupon12>It happens at the end of the build
12:48<@Alberth>that's when you run a linker indeed :)
12:49<Coupon12>What is a linker
12:49<@Alberth>oh dear :)
12:49<@Alberth>a build has two steps
12:50<@Alberth>first is compile, translating each c++ file to an object file. That happens for all c++ files
12:50<Coupon12>because i normally use c#, but i'm just using c++ for this one
12:50<@Alberth>second is linking, which links all object files together into one executable
12:50<__ln__>you call OpenTTD junk?
12:50<Coupon12>it's just a file i use for random stuff
12:50<Coupon12>*folder
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12:51<+glx>try a full rebuild
12:51<+glx>sometimes that fixes link errors
12:52<Coupon12>still got the same error
12:52<Coupon12>so where do i get a linker?
12:52<+glx>hmm it may be related to a recent commit
12:53*glx checks
12:53<Coupon12>i have teamviewer
12:54<+glx>Alberth: I think you forgot something in r24406 :)
12:55<@Alberth>oef :(
12:55<+glx>(source.list and generate)
12:56<+glx>thanks for the report Coupon12 :)
12:56<Coupon12>what did i do?
12:56<+glx>the error is in openttd source
12:56<Coupon12>oh i thought you meant report because i broke a rule
12:57-!-M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
12:57<Coupon12>well there are 6 other similar errors too
12:57<Coupon12>Error 2 error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: static unsigned int __fastcall ScriptCargoMonitor::GetIndustryPickupAmount(enum ScriptCompany::CompanyID,unsigned char,unsigned short,bool)" (?GetIndustryPickupAmount@ScriptCargoMonitor@@SIIW4CompanyID@ScriptCompany@@EG_N@Z) C:\Users\Michael\Documents\junk\openttd svn\projects\game_instance.obj opentt
12:58<+glx>yes missing files in the project
12:58-!-LordPixaII [~pixa@79-74-227-8.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd
12:58<Coupon12>so is it in the configuration properties?
12:58<Coupon12>or i have to get another source?
12:59<@Alberth>only generate, it seems :)
12:59<Coupon12>this is my first time doing anything with c++. i use c#
12:59<+glx>indeed Alberth
12:59-!-Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
12:59<@Alberth>I will add it
13:00<Coupon12>i don't even know what generate is
13:00<Coupon12>wait never mind
13:01<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r24408 /trunk/projects/ (4 files): -Fix (r24406): Forgot to add the new files to the Studio build list.
13:01<@Alberth>update svn please
13:01<Coupon12>well i have other errors too
13:01<Coupon12>do i post them all
13:02<@Alberth>pastebin :)
13:02<+glx>but update first
13:02<@Alberth>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/
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13:04<andythenorth>so
13:04<Coupon12>http://mibpaste.com/5xmRGI
13:04*andythenorth wonders
13:04<Coupon12>oh i didn't update first
13:04<andythenorth>wtf do most newgrfs offer same vehicles in all climates?
13:04<andythenorth>mine included
13:04<andythenorth>it's dumb
13:05<NGC3982>same vehicles - different colors?
13:05-!-peter1138 [~petern@petern.bnsnet.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
13:06<NGC3982>andythenorth: as recalled vagely from the grf tutorial. doesnt most vehicle grf code ignore the map type?
13:06<andythenorth>yes
13:06<andythenorth>but why do we do it?
13:06<andythenorth>it's silly
13:06<NGC3982>indeed
13:06<@Alberth>everybody ignores existence of 3 new other climates
13:07<andythenorth>default game offers 4 different gameplay experiences out of the box
13:07<andythenorth>whereas with my grfs, the terrain is completely incidentall
13:07<andythenorth>so it's all very 'meh'
13:07<andythenorth>and the more I convert my grfs to be generated, the more 'meh' they get
13:08<andythenorth>because generated grfs have to fit to a framework of common cases
13:11<NGC3982>i see.
13:11<NGC3982>Alberth: did you say new?
13:12<@Alberth>yep, I did; no idea why tbh
13:14*andythenorth types a lot of things and has no idea why
13:14<andythenorth>it's slightly like having someone else in my head
13:15<NGC3982>Alberth: i thought i missed out on something important. :p
13:16<@Alberth>NGC3982: that depends whether you ever played anything else than the temperate climate
13:20-!-Pulec [~pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has quit [Quit: Pulce sezrali]
13:20<NGC3982>indeed.
13:20*NGC3982 looks at the last star trek the next generation episode for the first time.
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13:34<andythenorth>so grf offers all vehicles in all climates
13:34<andythenorth>hmm
13:34*andythenorth can't think of viable alternatives tbh
13:36<@Alberth>(possibly some) different vehicles in different climates? different characteristics?
13:36<@Alberth>some climates have no electric tracks
13:37<andythenorth>so for HEQS...?
13:37<andythenorth>which mining trucks aren't valid for arctic?
13:37<andythenorth>etc
13:37*andythenorth ponders
13:38<andythenorth>same issue for ships
13:39<+michi_cc>Specialized vehicles that are used globally are used globally, no need to tinker with that. Many other NewGRFs suggest (or even enforce, e.g. DBSet) a specific climate, but still have only a single set of vehicles.
13:39<andythenorth>in default TTD, planes are same in all climates?
13:39<andythenorth>hmm
13:39<andythenorth>and RVs and ships
13:40*andythenorth is arguing from poor evidence :P
13:40<andythenorth>another idea bites the dust
13:40<andythenorth>only another 99 to go :)
13:40<+michi_cc>The historical reasoning is that NewGRFs don't provide different vehicles/stations/whatever per climate, but instead the player is simply supposed to select different NewGRFs for different climates.
13:40<andythenorth>yup
13:41<andythenorth>that's maybe how BANDIT would handle it, if I ever get that far
13:42<andythenorth>FIRS is same in all climates
13:42<andythenorth>silly old FIRS
13:42<@Alberth>wiki suggests mostly trains are different
13:42<@Alberth>FIRS does not fit in toyland imo
13:42<andythenorth>orly :D
13:43<FLHerne>Alberth: Would it not be possible to swap Toyland for something else? :P
13:43<FLHerne>I doubt even 0.5% of games use it :-(
13:44<KenjiE20>blasphemy
13:44*Alberth likes toyland, very nicely animated industries
13:45<FLHerne>Couldn't they have drawn nicely animated industries of something else?
13:45*FLHerne would find rainforest interesting...
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r24409 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt french.txt korean.txt):
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: croatian - 3 changes by VoyagerOne
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: french - 3 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: korean - 2 changes by telk5093
13:45<@Alberth>already exists, in tropical climate :p
13:45<KenjiE20>because that's not in subtropic at all
13:46<NGC3982>the word subtropic makes me giggle
13:46<NGC3982>since it reminds me of Tropico.
13:46*NGC3982 starts #CubanTTD
13:47<@Alberth>FLHerne: like http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=161429 ?
13:47-!-LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-172-157.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
13:50<telanus>Cool: r24408 made openttd compile here
13:50-!-telanus is now known as telanus1
13:51-!-telanus1 is now known as telanus
13:51<FLHerne>Alberth: That's even more painful on the eyes, even :o
13:51-!-Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083dc4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:51<@Alberth>telanus: nice
13:53<andythenorth>zool!
13:53<andythenorth>toyland should look like zool!
13:53<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zool
13:54<@Alberth>telanus: now you are one of the few with the new cargo monitoring functionality :)
13:54<andythenorth>sound track by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Phelan_(composer)
13:54<andythenorth>we should get him to do us a new sound track
13:55<andythenorth>can we make a GPL version of Lotus?
13:55<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_(computer_games)
13:55*NGC3982 loves the anti time paradox.
13:56<NGC3982>Alberth: im in.
13:56<NGC3982>andythenorth: im in*
13:56<andythenorth>can you code?
13:56<andythenorth>graphics look straightforward :P
13:56<andythenorth>http://gremlinworld.emuunlim.com/amiga/lotus-2.gif
13:57<Rubidium>is there a remake of Stunts?
13:57<andythenorth>was that similar to Stunt Racer 2000?
13:57<andythenorth>or Stunt Car Racer?
13:57<andythenorth>oh I remember stunts
13:57<andythenorth>you could drive anywhere on the landscape
13:58<andythenorth>it was crappy performance on my friend's Amiga
13:58<LordAro>re recent commit: bad Alberth, forgot to run the script yesterday :P
13:58<szaman>my boss played stunts last week in his office
13:58<szaman>in dosbox :]
13:58<andythenorth>Stunt Racer 2000 was epic, it combined Stunts and Stunt Car Racer
13:58<andythenorth>but it was Acorn RISC OS only
13:59<andythenorth>so most of you never saw it :P
13:59<@Alberth>LordAro: I didn't add that file yesterday :p
14:00<@Alberth>andythenorth: I did have a riscos machine, but not many games
14:00<andythenorth>Stunt Racer 2000 was epic, and Chocks Away
14:00<andythenorth>most other games were so-so or lame :P
14:01<frosch123>Rubidium: trackmania is the modern stunts
14:01<andythenorth>I ended up writing animations using basic
14:01<andythenorth>prefiguring my entire later life :P
14:01<LordAro>trackmania is awesome :)
14:01*LordAro is random comments guy today
14:01<andythenorth>I saw some space game being played today
14:02<andythenorth>you assemble rockets and launch them
14:02<andythenorth>looked neat
14:03<andythenorth>http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/
14:03<@Alberth>andythenorth: :o I know Chocks Away, LOTS of fun!
14:03<andythenorth>Alberth: could we recreate it?
14:03<andythenorth>an 8mhz, 2MB RISC OS device....
14:04<andythenorth>so I guess we could probably get acceptable performance on a modern laptop?
14:04<@Alberth>I sold mine a long time ago :p
14:04<andythenorth>Open Chocks Away!
14:04<@Alberth>I don't see why that would not be possible
14:04<andythenorth>how hard can it be?
14:04<andythenorth>it did draw actual 3D vector graphics iirc
14:05<@Alberth>1-2 years of work?
14:05<andythenorth>probably
14:05<andythenorth>they were small teams
14:05<LordAro>kerbal space program also looks awesome
14:05<andythenorth>4th Dimension was only a few guys, and they also did e-type, stunt racer 2000, and that space thing
14:06<Coupon12>the openttd thing is missing files
14:06<Coupon12>ol' what was it called
14:08<Coupon12>oh nvm
14:08<andythenorth>Alberth: look how smooth it ran :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0x5JbmU6HU
14:09<Coupon12>I can never get spaceplanes to take off
14:10<Coupon12>They always fall off the side of the runway and crash
14:11<Coupon12>oh i thought you were talking about kerbal space program again
14:11<frosch123>what's that?
14:11<frosch123>amiga?
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14:11<frosch123>it starts with A
14:12<frosch123>but i only remember 3 digit numbers
14:12<NGC3982>andythenorth: "bwrrrrrrr"
14:12<andythenorth>Acorn
14:12<andythenorth>hmm maybe we track down Andrew Hutchings?
14:12<andythenorth>who was the author
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14:13<andythenorth>my friend is called Andrew Hutchings, I doubt they are the same person :P
14:13<Coupon12>heh
14:14<Coupon12>does anyone know of a program that can decompile assembly to c++ or c#
14:16<andythenorth>well this is Andrew Hutchings' brother apparently http://www.youtube.com/user/hoggler555
14:17<andythenorth>who else had RISC OS?
14:17<andythenorth>Born_Acorn probably I guess
14:17<andythenorth>I think peter1138 did too
14:17<Coupon12>trying to build the openttd source code
14:17<Coupon12>oh wait it worked
14:18<Coupon12>is it possible to run openttd from visual studio?
14:18<Coupon12>with ctrl+f5
14:19<Coupon12>Because when i try, this dialog comes up saying it requires graphics
14:20<@Alberth>Coupon12: yep, you need to install some data files too, read the readme file
14:20<Coupon12>I have them installed with the regular openttd
14:20<Coupon12>this is from visual studio
14:21<@Alberth>then they are not installed so they can be shared, I guess
14:22<@Alberth>Coupon12: note that "decompile" normally goes from high-level languages (C/C++ etc) to low-level languages (eg assembly language)
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14:22<telanus>Is there a way to make firs build Fishing harbours at the coast (on the edge of the map) and not in a small pond (in the middle of the map?
14:23<andythenorth>not really
14:27<Coupon12>ugh, when i try to download opengfx i get the yellow screen of death
14:28*andythenorth ponders removing fishing harbour
14:29<Coupon12>how do you download bundles?
14:29<Hirundo>andythenorth: just deliver fish directly to shops in towns?
14:29<andythenorth>maybe
14:29<andythenorth>I don't like including things that are irrevocably broken
14:30<andythenorth>fishing harbour is such a thing
14:33<Coupon12>alright, where do i put the opengfx files
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14:41-!-kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
14:42<telanus>Andythenorth, what about fishing markets in towns?
14:42<andythenorth>possible
14:43<andythenorth>the harbours have to go I think
14:43*andythenorth ponders deleting the fishing chain entirely
14:43<FLHerne>andythenorth: Nooo! :-(
14:44<andythenorth>FIRS is too big
14:44<FLHerne>Provides a real use for small boats
14:44<FLHerne>And no, it's still too small :P
14:45<FLHerne>It needs fish markets and non-town-attached fish processing plants, then fishing chain will work better
14:45<andythenorth>that's more stuff, not less
14:45<andythenorth>less stuff is the goal
14:46<FLHerne>More stuff [i]should[/i] be the goal :-)
14:46<FLHerne>More stuff is good :D
14:46<FLHerne>Would it be possible to give fishing harbours integrated docks? They are [i]harbours[/i]...
14:47<andythenorth>no
14:48<frosch123>industries are neutral
14:48<frosch123>you cannot combine them with company owned stations
14:48<FLHerne>Can only water-surrounded things have docks, then? Or only primary industries?
14:48<FLHerne>Why can't they have neutral stations, anyway?
14:48<andythenorth>the water industries have a dock because there is no alternative
14:49<andythenorth>neutral stations are considered highly undesirable for gameplay
14:49<andythenorth>I don't know the issue, I never play in MP
14:49<andythenorth>but it was a flat 'no'
14:49<andythenorth>vetoed
14:49<andythenorth>also, they gain helicopter pads with the station
14:49<FLHerne>I think they mess up the transfers because you can use them to swap cargo between companies :-(
14:49<andythenorth>helipad causes bug reports
14:50<FLHerne>Can it detect SP v MP?
14:50<andythenorth>don't think so
14:51<FLHerne>Have a parameter then :P (default off maybe). It seems silly to have to build a dock to serve a harbour :P
14:52<andythenorth>parameters = string
14:52<andythenorth>string = buggy grf
14:53<FLHerne>How does that follow?
14:53<andythenorth>i.e. big ball of string running through the grf = bad
14:53<andythenorth>don't tie everything up in string
14:53<andythenorth>clean interface, not 'if x then z, but not on tuesdays'
14:54<andythenorth>basically fishing harbours are a stupid idea
14:54<andythenorth>and should go
14:54<FLHerne>Possibly, in that case. Have fish markets in towns, instead? :P
14:55<andythenorth>kind of boring
14:55<andythenorth>will mean always having to transfer
14:55<FLHerne>Which is good! :P
14:55<andythenorth>unless they end up on the coast
14:55<FLHerne>And the problem with transfers is...?
14:56<andythenorth>boring to set up
14:56<andythenorth>loads of clicks
14:57<andythenorth>although....it's not any worse than current fishing harbour situation
14:57<FLHerne>And the problem with clicks is...? :P
14:57<andythenorth>boring
14:57<FLHerne>Really? :o
14:57<andythenorth>the current fishing harbour placement often needs transfers anyway :P
14:57<andythenorth>as it's broken
14:58<FLHerne>No, the way OTTD generates water is broken :-(
14:59<andythenorth>ah
14:59<andythenorth>I'm not sure that FIRS fishing ground code survived the nml migration
14:59<andythenorth>I made harbours locate quite close to fishing grounds
14:59<andythenorth>it's very annoying when the only harbour is on the other side of the map to the fishing grounds
14:59<FLHerne>It makes no sense, there should be far more contiguous stuff, with lakes higher than sea level, rivers actually following catchment areas, etc :P
14:59<andythenorth>that code is missing in action
15:00*andythenorth wonders if other similar co-location code is MIA
15:00<andythenorth>the clustering is broken too
15:00<FLHerne>Not to mention downhill rivers from lakes to the sea, which just don't exist :-(
15:00*andythenorth -> pub
15:00<andythenorth>bye
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15:48<NGC3982>http://de.webfail.at/uploads/images/2473/post.jpg
15:48<NGC3982>meanwhile, in germany.
15:50<frosch123>who's that guy?
15:52<telanus>might be this bloke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Guetta
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15:58<Chris_Booth>take is someone doesn't like loud David Guetta
15:59<Wolf01>hello o/
16:00<Chris_Booth>hi Wolf01
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16:12<Wolf01>gah, I hate the Steam sales... Steam is already like a drug, when they start the sales it's an overdose!
16:13<Wolf01>(but my bank balance doesn't think the same)
16:16*Terkhen agrees :P
16:16-!-KritiK [~Maxim@128-68-239-123.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
16:16<@Terkhen>that's why they add so many free games and sell their own games dirt cheap to get you into it
16:17<@Terkhen>:D
16:18<Wolf01>when I started to use it there weren't free games :P
16:18<Wolf01>if not some rare cases
16:21<__ln__>is CitiesXL any good?
16:23<Wolf01>from the screenshots it looks promising
16:23<@Terkhen>yes, when I started there weren't many either
16:23<@Terkhen>but at some point they even made TF2 free :P
16:24<Wolf01>but I'm a n00b at these games, I didn't manage to run a Sim City 4 city for more than 5 years
16:25<__ln__>the screenshots do not really show anything about what's the gameplay like
16:25-!-sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER]
16:26<Wolf01>I've seen some videos when it was announced, but I don't remember it well
16:32<Sacro>__ln__: it's not amazing
16:32<Sacro>SC4 with mods is better
16:35<__ln__>i see
16:41<__ln__>Wolf01: what's cheap (no more than 5€) and good?
16:41<Wolf01>let me se
16:41<Wolf01>see
16:42<Wolf01>trine, fable, but you must like the genres
16:43<Wolf01>assassin's creed (the first one) if you don't have it already
16:43<Wolf01>oh there is assassi'ns creed 2 too
16:46<__ln__>i guess i could pick one or two and try; i don't tend to play much so i'm a bit unfamiliar with games of the 2000's :)
16:46<Wolf01>then lurk on the star wars franchise pack
16:46<Wolf01>:)
16:47<Wolf01>I purchased it this xmas, all the dark forces saga
16:48<Wolf01>and the jedi knights too
16:52<__ln__>i have some something-jedi for ps3, but since i forgot its name i probably haven't played it in a while
16:53<Wolf01>the force unleashed maybe
16:54<__ln__>yeah, that's the one
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: "10 year old game with mods" is always better than "brand new game rushed to a release"
16:55<Wolf01>you have a spectacular example: the game which names this channel :P
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>also Civ4 with mods is "better" than Civ5
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>look at the balance fixes they did in the first few months... it's fairly obvious that it was rushed
16:57*Terkhen did not like Civ5 at all
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>actually i do like Civ5. the gameplay is significantly different from Civ4, and thus interesting.
16:58<Wolf01>I only played Civ2
16:59-!-Supercheese [~chatzilla@50.37.123.225] has joined #openttd
16:59<telanus>I've got Civ chronicles
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17:04<Eddi|zuHause>no idea what that even is
17:05-!-Coupon12 [4cb6f16c@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
17:05<Coupon12>what part of the source code is for the trains and their stats?
17:06<Coupon12>like maximum speed?
17:06<@Alberth>none
17:06<@Alberth>they are coded in NewGRFs
17:06<Coupon12>then how do i change that
17:06<@Alberth>make a newgrf
17:07<telanus>Eddi|zuHause: http://www.civilization.com/chronicles/
17:07<Coupon12>i mean the newgrf that has the code for the starting trains
17:08<@Alberth>Coupon12: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Main <-- that's a nice program for making newgrf
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>Coupon12: http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial
17:08<@Alberth>you can override almost anything from existing vehicles
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17:13<Eddi|zuHause>no idea if he got what he actually wanted
17:17<telanus>night alll
17:18<Wolf01>night telanus
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17:19<NGC3982>http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/599281_10150935337601466_1157165227_n.jpg
17:19<NGC3982><3
17:20<Supercheese>Too bad about .jpg, though ;)
17:20<NGC3982>;_;
17:21*Supercheese wonders when .jpg will cease to be the standard image filetype
17:22<+glx>it's ok for photos
17:22<Wolf01>and if you use 100% quality it's really good ;)
17:26<Supercheese>The average user is completely unaware that there even is a quality option for .jpgs
17:26<Supercheese>Alas
17:27<FLHerne>Good for squeezing onto floopies, though :-)
17:27<Wolf01>http://globalgeeknews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/8GB-of-Floppy-Disks-in-1995-vs-8GB-of-Micro-SD-Today.jpg
17:28<Supercheese>I don't think I even have any device currently running with a floppy drive
17:28<Supercheese>some old computers in boxes, but that's about it
17:28<FLHerne>Wolf01: I have twice that number of floppies, but no MicroSD cards or card readers :P
17:29<Wolf01>ahah
17:29<FLHerne>USB thumb drives are nice, though
17:29<FLHerne>Made my floppies obsolete except for things without USB drives :-)
17:30<Prof_Frink>Floopy drive :D
17:30<FLHerne>s/drives/ports/
17:30<@Terkhen>good night
17:30<frosch123>internet everywhere made any kind of mobile media obsolete
17:30<Wolf01>night Terkhen
17:30<FLHerne>Only if your device has wifi/Ethernet/Bluetooth, though :P
17:31<FLHerne>Terkhen: night
17:31<Prof_Frink>frosch123: The object sat next to me would disagree.
17:31<Supercheese>And even on devices with mobile internet, [Micro]SD is very useful for local storage, like for phones with limited internal memory
17:32<FLHerne>Tried internet over infra-red? Don't. It doesn't work :P
17:32<Prof_Frink>A couple of hundred gig of daily backups would not fit down the intertubes in an acceptable amount of time.
17:32<frosch123>if you never remove the storage from the device, then it's not mobile storage, is it?
17:33<Supercheese>I remove it all the time to transfer stuff between PC and device, but perhaps that's just me
17:33<frosch123>at least i wouldn't call a harddisk mobile, even if it is inside a notebook
17:33<frosch123>maybe, removable media is the more correct term :)
17:34<Prof_Frink>Not a harddisk, and definitely removable.
17:35<frosch123>well, maybe we can at least agree on the fakt, that dvd burners are useless except for stealing movies
17:36<frosch123>and even for that the usage is questionable
17:36<FLHerne>frosch123: Burning install disks
17:36<Supercheese>I can't remember the last time I used optical media on a PC outside of burning music CDs to play in my car
17:37<Supercheese>Oh, wait, it was to make a recovery CD for me OS
17:37<FLHerne>And transferring files that don't fit onto a floppy to transfer to non-networkable devices
17:37<frosch123>yeah, minimal boot cds :)
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17:38<FLHerne>And when you want to copy .openttd to another computer and lost your thumb drive :P
17:40<frosch123>what's the use of openttd without repository access?
17:40<FLHerne>Playing?
17:41<FLHerne>My laptop has CD-installed Debian, but no Ethernet :P
17:41<frosch123>hmm, i'll sleep over that :p
17:41<frosch123>night
17:41<FLHerne>Night
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18:22<Wolf01>'night all
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22:08<Elukka>http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/IMG_0003.jpg
22:09<Elukka>he found he's rather fond of a third floor window as his perch
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 17 00:00:18 2012