| --- | Log | opened Mon Jul 16 00:00:11 2012 |
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| 02:30 | <@Terkhen> | good morning |
| 02:39 | <dihedral> | good morning Terkhen |
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| 03:57 | <__ln__> | good dihedral, morning |
| 04:12 | <dihedral> | that was worth the effort, wasn't it __ln__ ? |
| 04:13 | <__ln__> | of course |
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| 04:29 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ |
| 04:30 | <@Alberth> | hi hi |
| 04:31 | <kaylar> | hello |
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| 04:37 | <@Terkhen> | I wonder if they think that IRC users do nothing besides checking the channel every 10 seconds |
| 04:37 | <dihedral> | :-D |
| 04:44 | <@Alberth> | depends on the channel :) #python with 700+ users, someone is bound to react soon :) |
| 04:46 | <@Alberth> | imho equally possible is that they don't understand IRC, and are just trying it, and it does not speak back within a 'reasonable' time :) |
| 04:47 | <@Alberth> | just like "he, what does this button do? .... oh, nothing" |
| 04:49 | <telanus> | :D |
| 04:49 | <telanus> | I see there isn't a nightly build since friday |
| 04:51 | <@Alberth> | since friday already? :o |
| 04:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | nobody uses nightlies :p |
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| 05:00 | <telanus> | I do use nightlies |
| 05:05 | <@Alberth> | just build it yourself :) |
| 05:15 | <dihedral> | aye |
| 05:16 | <dihedral> | and then again, nobody uses nightlies :-P |
| 05:16 | <telanus> | is it compilable with VS 2010 Express? |
| 05:16 | <@planetmaker> | yes |
| 05:17 | <@planetmaker> | hello all :-) |
| 05:18 | <@Alberth> | hi planetmaker |
| 05:18 | <@Alberth> | planetmaker: do you know the state of coding the sprites in zbase? |
| 05:19 | <@planetmaker> | as far as I've seen the coding state is 0% |
| 05:19 | <@Alberth> | oke, that sounds like there is work to do yet :) |
| 05:19 | <telanus> | what tools do I need extra? only openttd-useful? |
| 05:20 | <@planetmaker> | and to answer your question yesterday(?): I'm definitely interested in helping. IMHO one one could either start by merging OpenGFX or by copying the relevant parts (just sprites + pnml + build) and then add via alternative sprites the new ones |
| 05:20 | <@Alberth> | a checkout of openttd |
| 05:22 | <@Alberth> | right, I don't understand some parts of that, but it sounds like a fun experiment to do :) |
| 05:22 | <@Alberth> | let's start with a checkout of both repos :) |
| 05:22 | <@planetmaker> | :-) yeah |
| 05:23 | <@planetmaker> | Alberth: what - IMHO - basically can be done: take OpenGFX. It's all in NML. Ignore it being build from scratch (e.g. don't create pngs from gimp sources) |
| 05:23 | <@planetmaker> | And then just adding the alternative_sprites block to the appropriate places |
| 05:24 | <@planetmaker> | I linked an (the only) example in the zbase thread where I already did that in OpenGFX itself for the large explosion |
| 05:24 | <@planetmaker> | that "just" needs doing hundret of times |
| 05:24 | <@Alberth> | something in that direction sounds like a plan :) |
| 05:26 | <@planetmaker> | it's IMHO also (much) easier than a newgrf approach. As it needs not the newgrf overhead |
| 05:26 | <@planetmaker> | and the required 8bpp are already coded |
| 05:26 | <@planetmaker> | and you see all progress immediately so to speak |
| 05:26 | <@Alberth> | you do? |
| 05:26 | * | Alberth is not running 32bpp afaik :) |
| 05:27 | <@planetmaker> | I do ;-) |
| 05:27 | <@Alberth> | ie another thing to do :) |
| 05:27 | <@planetmaker> | but that's actually an easy thing to change :-P |
| 05:28 | <@Alberth> | devzone doesn't like me :( "abort: stream ended unexpectedly (got 53678 bytes, expected 59828)" |
| 05:28 | <@planetmaker> | which repo, Alberth? |
| 05:28 | <@Alberth> | zbase |
| 05:29 | <@planetmaker> | hm. give me your ssh key. It's a http issue |
| 05:29 | <@planetmaker> | of huge repos |
| 05:29 | <@Alberth> | how big is it ? |
| 05:29 | <@planetmaker> | dunno :-) Big |
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| 05:51 | * | telanus hasstarted a compile. Hope it works |
| 05:56 | <@Terkhen> | telanus: there is a MSVC compiling tutorial in the wiki, made by Roujin IIRC |
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| 05:57 | <@Terkhen> | it should be in his user page |
| 05:58 | <telanus> | I followed this one: http://wiki.openttd.org/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008_Express_Editions |
| 06:00 | <@Terkhen> | that one misses the info for not having to specify the openttd useful folders with each new project |
| 06:06 | <telanus> | <Terkhen> telanus: there is a MSVC compiling tutorial in the wiki, made by Roujin IIRC <---------------- can't find this one :( |
| 06:07 | * | Terkhen cant access the wiki now |
| 06:08 | <@planetmaker> | and... why don't you follow the VS C++ 2010? |
| 06:08 | <@planetmaker> | did you mind the differences to 2008? |
| 06:09 | <telanus> | there isn't a 2010 one on the wiki that I found |
| 06:10 | <@Terkhen> | planetmaker: there is no official tutorial |
| 06:10 | <@planetmaker> | Terkhen: but the hints wrt 2010 are just below that one. Listing differences to 2008 |
| 06:10 | <@Terkhen> | ooh, that's new |
| 06:11 | <telanus> | yip followed that |
| 06:15 | <@planetmaker> | sorry, can't help further. I don't use windows |
| 06:18 | <@Terkhen> | I can help you when I'm back at home :P |
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| 08:54 | <@Belugas> | hello |
| 09:03 | <@Alberth> | hi |
| 09:07 | <@Belugas> | hello Alberth |
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| 10:56 | <kmfx88> | Is there a way to have the original building and trees in the latest open TTD? |
| 10:57 | <@planetmaker> | yes. I'd like to point you to the readme |
| 10:57 | <kmfx88> | 1.2.1 that is |
| 10:58 | <@planetmaker> | it explains in detail where to put the original grf files |
| 10:58 | <@planetmaker> | then select them in the game options dialogue ingame |
| 10:59 | <kmfx88> | Ok. Thank you. |
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| 11:11 | <@Alberth> | hi |
| 11:11 | <LordAro> | evenings |
| 11:13 | * | telanus has given up on trying to build OpenTTD here :( |
| 11:14 | <andythenorth> | hello |
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| 11:23 | <Ganga> | sup |
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| 11:26 | <@planetmaker> | a clear case of 10s attention span :-) |
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| 11:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what do you mea... oh a butterfly |
| 11:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hey this one is great ;) especially the second part http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc |
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| 11:37 | <Elukka> | it would be sweet if someone made BuildOTTD or something equivalent work for modern versions of the game |
| 11:38 | <@planetmaker> | feel invited to do so, Elukka |
| 11:39 | <Elukka> | yes, i know anyone can work on an open source project |
| 11:40 | <Rubidium> | I thought that's the whole problem, there are no sources for it |
| 11:41 | <Rubidium> | or it's built with some language that isn't used by much |
| 11:41 | <Rubidium> | s/much/many/ |
| 11:41 | <Elukka> | all i was saying it'd be nice if there was an utility to easily build openttd with |
| 11:41 | <Elukka> | if i had the skill or inclination or the inclination to learn the skill to do it myself i'd be doing it already |
| 11:41 | <Elukka> | instead of saying it'd be nice :P |
| 11:42 | <@Terkhen> | I don't think that the MinGW tutorial is complicates |
| 11:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | is that a case of "we should do X" where it meant "YOU should do X"? |
| 11:42 | <@Terkhen> | complicated* |
| 11:42 | <@Alberth> | Eddi|zuHause: well, anybody other than "me", usually |
| 11:43 | <andythenorth> | we should create an "OpenTTD ponies" websiter |
| 11:43 | <@Terkhen> | you could make a script for the whole process easily |
| 11:43 | <andythenorth> | -r |
| 11:43 | * | Rubidium used to have a 'compile service' that'd build patches against HEAD |
| 11:44 | <@Terkhen> | but IMO the tutorial by itself is simple enough |
| 11:45 | <@Terkhen> | telanus: did you try it? |
| 11:45 | <dihedral> | Elukka, for 2500 € i'll be your bitch for a week and build the service for you :-P |
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| 11:45 | <@Terkhen> | s/it/the MinGW tutorial/ |
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| 11:48 | <telanus> | Terkhen: yes tried but seems I couldn't get it to compile :( |
| 11:48 | <Elukka> | it's not like i demanded someone makes this thing for me |
| 11:49 | <@Alberth> | why bring it up in the first place? |
| 11:49 | <Elukka> | are suggestions, or even just musing, verboten? |
| 11:50 | <NGC3982> | verboten! |
| 11:50 | <@Alberth> | no, but they are so useless |
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| 11:50 | <NGC3982> | best german:ish word in existance. |
| 11:51 | <@Alberth> | hi frosch |
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| 11:51 | <frosch123> | hai |
| 11:58 | <Rubidium> | dihedral: I hope he doesn't take your offer the wrong way ;) |
| 11:58 | <dihedral> | :-D |
| 11:58 | <dihedral> | then there would be a few zeros missing :-P |
| 12:00 | <@Terkhen> | telanus: which error did you get? |
| 12:00 | * | NGC3982 gets jiggy with it. |
| 12:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Elukka: if you build it, they will come |
| 12:05 | <telanus> | Terkhen: I get a different one each time |
| 12:06 | <telanus> | Last time, it complained it couldn't dind unicode.h |
| 12:06 | <Elukka> | why is htere a suggestion forum? |
| 12:06 | <Elukka> | *there |
| 12:06 | <telanus> | before it couldn't find some other file |
| 12:10 | <dihedral> | so people have a place to write their stuff and nobody has to care, Elukka |
| 12:10 | <dihedral> | :-P |
| 12:10 | <dihedral> | basically keeping the other forums free of crap :-P |
| 12:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that is correct ;) |
| 12:13 | <Elukka> | so the idea is that nobody who isn't a coder on the project can have anything worthwhile to say |
| 12:13 | <Elukka> | i know anyone is free to join the project, but that does sound terribly insular |
| 12:13 | <FLHerne> | Elukka: Nobody who isn't a coder can have anything worthwhile to say unless they become a coder to fulfil their proposal, apparently :P |
| 12:14 | <@planetmaker> | Elukka: everyone is free and welcome and invited to bring forward his or her suggestions on improvement of whatever aspect bothers him or her |
| 12:14 | <@planetmaker> | For that purpose we DO have the suggestions forum |
| 12:14 | <Elukka> | okay, cool |
| 12:14 | <@planetmaker> | Contrary to popular believe it's even read |
| 12:15 | <@planetmaker> | But bringing forward a suggestion does NOT imply that anyone knowledgable about the code will immediately jump forward and say "great. I'll have it done tomorrow" |
| 12:16 | <@planetmaker> | That won't even happen with ideas which a person agrees with. Good things take time. Sometimes even considerable time |
| 12:16 | <@planetmaker> | (as in years) |
| 12:17 | <Elukka> | yes |
| 12:17 | <@planetmaker> | of course other things go very quick as well. And that heavily depends... on the code internals. |
| 12:17 | <@planetmaker> | and the motivation :-P |
| 12:19 | <Elukka> | i think suggestions on a project like this are less of a request of anyone to do something but rather a way to bring up issues the users have |
| 12:20 | <@planetmaker> | there's a difference between suggestion and bug... |
| 12:21 | <@planetmaker> | I disagree though that compilation of the project is an issue |
| 12:21 | <Elukka> | well, that was in reply to the notion that suggestions are 100% useless in every case and everyone should just shut up if they're not going to do it themselves |
| 12:22 | * | NGC3982 forgot a server running and realizes that a fair amount of inflation builds up in 1200 years. |
| 12:22 | <@Belugas> | this is utterly reductive to the real situation. some suggestions have been coded |
| 12:22 | <Rubidium> | making the same suggestion (again) usually is useless |
| 12:22 | <@Belugas> | not all, but some did |
| 12:23 | <@planetmaker> | NGC3982: discover min_active_clients |
| 12:23 | <Eddi|zuHause> | NGC3982: inflation stops after 170 years |
| 12:23 | * | Rubidium wonders how people will like it if that tool were written in labview which requires a 100+ MB runtime ;) |
| 12:24 | <@planetmaker> | haha, Rubidium :-) |
| 12:24 | <@planetmaker> | let's write it in scada |
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| 12:24 | <Elukka> | for the record i'm agreeing with you here planetmaker :P |
| 12:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i have a Siemens S300 here, maybe that helps :) |
| 12:24 | <Rubidium> | maybe I should make a qemu mips image that builds windows binaries ;) |
| 12:24 | <NGC3982> | planetmaker: and so, i did! \o/ |
| 12:25 | <@planetmaker> | Elukka: usually wordings like "...someone could make..." produce results like "make it yourself" |
| 12:25 | <Elukka> | i just said it would be nice if x existed |
| 12:25 | <@Terkhen> | telanus1: you probably forgot the etc/fstab step |
| 12:26 | <@planetmaker> | you said "...if someone made BuildOTTD or something equivalent..." |
| 12:26 | <@planetmaker> | which implies a strong "not me" |
| 12:26 | <NGC3982> | x, on openttd? :3 |
| 12:27 | <@planetmaker> | might be nuances, but that's how a "someone" usually comes accross and how "someone" is interpreted |
| 12:27 | <@planetmaker> | even when not intended |
| 12:27 | <@planetmaker> | (just explaining the response) |
| 12:27 | <Rubidium> | someone should make browser hotkeys configurable |
| 12:27 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 12:27 | <Rubidium> | especially the ones in firefox so I can disable CTRL+Q |
| 12:28 | <NGC3982> | you guys are talking x and browsers |
| 12:28 | <NGC3982> | im confused. |
| 12:28 | <Rubidium> | it's awfully close to W |
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| 12:28 | * | NGC3982 drinks more bear-beer. |
| 12:28 | <Elukka> | okay, true |
| 12:29 | <@planetmaker> | as general advise: state what you like see changed. But don't imply that someone else should do it :-) |
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| 12:29 | <@planetmaker> | (but even then you can get the same response :-P ) |
| 12:29 | <@planetmaker> | don't take it personal |
| 12:29 | <Elukka> | no, i wouldn't expect devs to do my bidding :P |
| 12:30 | <@planetmaker> | and agreed: a "do it yourself" response is not really nice |
| 12:31 | <NGC3982> | is this the same discussion i always fall in when flamewar stops after somebody have used "<random useless feature> would be nice to implement." |
| 12:32 | -!- | Coupon12 [4cb6f16c@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd |
| 12:33 | <Coupon12> | Does anyone know how to edit the openttd source code in visual studio? |
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| 12:33 | <NGC3982> | Coupon12: there should be support for the files as it is, as far as i know. |
| 12:33 | <NGC3982> | oh, sorry. |
| 12:33 | <NGC3982> | never mind me, i didnt read "source code". |
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| 12:34 | <Coupon12> | I got the openttd-useful-4.2-any |
| 12:34 | <@planetmaker> | Coupon12: I suggest: open file(s). Edit at will :-) |
| 12:34 | <Coupon12> | also the svn |
| 12:34 | <Coupon12> | But I have to do the include directories and all that |
| 12:34 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Coupon12: in the svn you have the .sln files |
| 12:34 | <Eddi|zuHause> | in projects |
| 12:35 | <Coupon12> | ok i'll try and show you the errors |
| 12:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you open the one for your visual studio (8,9 or 10) |
| 12:35 | <NGC3982> | http://i.imgur.com/PJCFo.png <- is there something i miss here? the trains havent autoreplaced in a good while. |
| 12:36 | <Coupon12> | 10 |
| 12:36 | <Coupon12> | I get all these errors saying: |
| 12:36 | <Coupon12> | error C1083: Cannot open include file: '(some file goes here)': no such file or directory |
| 12:36 | <Coupon12> | when i try ti build |
| 12:37 | <Coupon12> | like png.h |
| 12:37 | <+glx> | that's in openttd-useful |
| 12:37 | <Coupon12> | I got that, but I don't see any of the include and library folders |
| 12:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | then useful.zip is not in your library path |
| 12:38 | <Coupon12> | oh wait, i must ahv downloaded the wrong one |
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| 12:46 | <Coupon12> | I got the openttd-useful thing fixed |
| 12:46 | <Coupon12> | but now when i try to build i get 6 errors like this |
| 12:47 | <Coupon12> | Error 1 error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: static void __fastcall ScriptCargoMonitor::StopAllMonitoring(void)" (?StopAllMonitoring@ScriptCargoMonitor@@SIXXZ) C:\Users\Michael\Documents\junk\openttd svn\projects\game_instance.obj openttd |
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| 12:48 | <Coupon12> | It happens at the end of the build |
| 12:48 | <@Alberth> | that's when you run a linker indeed :) |
| 12:49 | <Coupon12> | What is a linker |
| 12:49 | <@Alberth> | oh dear :) |
| 12:49 | <@Alberth> | a build has two steps |
| 12:50 | <@Alberth> | first is compile, translating each c++ file to an object file. That happens for all c++ files |
| 12:50 | <Coupon12> | because i normally use c#, but i'm just using c++ for this one |
| 12:50 | <@Alberth> | second is linking, which links all object files together into one executable |
| 12:50 | <__ln__> | you call OpenTTD junk? |
| 12:50 | <Coupon12> | it's just a file i use for random stuff |
| 12:50 | <Coupon12> | *folder |
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| 12:51 | <+glx> | try a full rebuild |
| 12:51 | <+glx> | sometimes that fixes link errors |
| 12:52 | <Coupon12> | still got the same error |
| 12:52 | <Coupon12> | so where do i get a linker? |
| 12:52 | <+glx> | hmm it may be related to a recent commit |
| 12:53 | * | glx checks |
| 12:53 | <Coupon12> | i have teamviewer |
| 12:54 | <+glx> | Alberth: I think you forgot something in r24406 :) |
| 12:55 | <@Alberth> | oef :( |
| 12:55 | <+glx> | (source.list and generate) |
| 12:56 | <+glx> | thanks for the report Coupon12 :) |
| 12:56 | <Coupon12> | what did i do? |
| 12:56 | <+glx> | the error is in openttd source |
| 12:56 | <Coupon12> | oh i thought you meant report because i broke a rule |
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| 12:57 | <Coupon12> | well there are 6 other similar errors too |
| 12:57 | <Coupon12> | Error 2 error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: static unsigned int __fastcall ScriptCargoMonitor::GetIndustryPickupAmount(enum ScriptCompany::CompanyID,unsigned char,unsigned short,bool)" (?GetIndustryPickupAmount@ScriptCargoMonitor@@SIIW4CompanyID@ScriptCompany@@EG_N@Z) C:\Users\Michael\Documents\junk\openttd svn\projects\game_instance.obj opentt |
| 12:58 | <+glx> | yes missing files in the project |
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| 12:58 | <Coupon12> | so is it in the configuration properties? |
| 12:58 | <Coupon12> | or i have to get another source? |
| 12:59 | <@Alberth> | only generate, it seems :) |
| 12:59 | <Coupon12> | this is my first time doing anything with c++. i use c# |
| 12:59 | <+glx> | indeed Alberth |
| 12:59 | -!- | Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd |
| 12:59 | <@Alberth> | I will add it |
| 13:00 | <Coupon12> | i don't even know what generate is |
| 13:00 | <Coupon12> | wait never mind |
| 13:01 | <CIA-4> | OpenTTD: alberth * r24408 /trunk/projects/ (4 files): -Fix (r24406): Forgot to add the new files to the Studio build list. |
| 13:01 | <@Alberth> | update svn please |
| 13:01 | <Coupon12> | well i have other errors too |
| 13:01 | <Coupon12> | do i post them all |
| 13:02 | <@Alberth> | pastebin :) |
| 13:02 | <+glx> | but update first |
| 13:02 | <@Alberth> | http://paste.openttdcoop.org/ |
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| 13:04 | <andythenorth> | so |
| 13:04 | <Coupon12> | http://mibpaste.com/5xmRGI |
| 13:04 | * | andythenorth wonders |
| 13:04 | <Coupon12> | oh i didn't update first |
| 13:04 | <andythenorth> | wtf do most newgrfs offer same vehicles in all climates? |
| 13:04 | <andythenorth> | mine included |
| 13:04 | <andythenorth> | it's dumb |
| 13:05 | <NGC3982> | same vehicles - different colors? |
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| 13:06 | <NGC3982> | andythenorth: as recalled vagely from the grf tutorial. doesnt most vehicle grf code ignore the map type? |
| 13:06 | <andythenorth> | yes |
| 13:06 | <andythenorth> | but why do we do it? |
| 13:06 | <andythenorth> | it's silly |
| 13:06 | <NGC3982> | indeed |
| 13:06 | <@Alberth> | everybody ignores existence of 3 new other climates |
| 13:07 | <andythenorth> | default game offers 4 different gameplay experiences out of the box |
| 13:07 | <andythenorth> | whereas with my grfs, the terrain is completely incidentall |
| 13:07 | <andythenorth> | so it's all very 'meh' |
| 13:07 | <andythenorth> | and the more I convert my grfs to be generated, the more 'meh' they get |
| 13:08 | <andythenorth> | because generated grfs have to fit to a framework of common cases |
| 13:11 | <NGC3982> | i see. |
| 13:11 | <NGC3982> | Alberth: did you say new? |
| 13:12 | <@Alberth> | yep, I did; no idea why tbh |
| 13:14 | * | andythenorth types a lot of things and has no idea why |
| 13:14 | <andythenorth> | it's slightly like having someone else in my head |
| 13:15 | <NGC3982> | Alberth: i thought i missed out on something important. :p |
| 13:16 | <@Alberth> | NGC3982: that depends whether you ever played anything else than the temperate climate |
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| 13:20 | <NGC3982> | indeed. |
| 13:20 | * | NGC3982 looks at the last star trek the next generation episode for the first time. |
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| 13:34 | <andythenorth> | so grf offers all vehicles in all climates |
| 13:34 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 13:34 | * | andythenorth can't think of viable alternatives tbh |
| 13:36 | <@Alberth> | (possibly some) different vehicles in different climates? different characteristics? |
| 13:36 | <@Alberth> | some climates have no electric tracks |
| 13:37 | <andythenorth> | so for HEQS...? |
| 13:37 | <andythenorth> | which mining trucks aren't valid for arctic? |
| 13:37 | <andythenorth> | etc |
| 13:37 | * | andythenorth ponders |
| 13:38 | <andythenorth> | same issue for ships |
| 13:39 | <+michi_cc> | Specialized vehicles that are used globally are used globally, no need to tinker with that. Many other NewGRFs suggest (or even enforce, e.g. DBSet) a specific climate, but still have only a single set of vehicles. |
| 13:39 | <andythenorth> | in default TTD, planes are same in all climates? |
| 13:39 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 13:39 | <andythenorth> | and RVs and ships |
| 13:40 | * | andythenorth is arguing from poor evidence :P |
| 13:40 | <andythenorth> | another idea bites the dust |
| 13:40 | <andythenorth> | only another 99 to go :) |
| 13:40 | <+michi_cc> | The historical reasoning is that NewGRFs don't provide different vehicles/stations/whatever per climate, but instead the player is simply supposed to select different NewGRFs for different climates. |
| 13:40 | <andythenorth> | yup |
| 13:41 | <andythenorth> | that's maybe how BANDIT would handle it, if I ever get that far |
| 13:42 | <andythenorth> | FIRS is same in all climates |
| 13:42 | <andythenorth> | silly old FIRS |
| 13:42 | <@Alberth> | wiki suggests mostly trains are different |
| 13:42 | <@Alberth> | FIRS does not fit in toyland imo |
| 13:42 | <andythenorth> | orly :D |
| 13:43 | <FLHerne> | Alberth: Would it not be possible to swap Toyland for something else? :P |
| 13:43 | <FLHerne> | I doubt even 0.5% of games use it :-( |
| 13:44 | <KenjiE20> | blasphemy |
| 13:44 | * | Alberth likes toyland, very nicely animated industries |
| 13:45 | <FLHerne> | Couldn't they have drawn nicely animated industries of something else? |
| 13:45 | * | FLHerne would find rainforest interesting... |
| 13:45 | <CIA-4> | OpenTTD: translators * r24409 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt french.txt korean.txt): |
| 13:45 | <CIA-4> | OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
| 13:45 | <CIA-4> | OpenTTD: croatian - 3 changes by VoyagerOne |
| 13:45 | <CIA-4> | OpenTTD: french - 3 changes by glx |
| 13:45 | <CIA-4> | OpenTTD: korean - 2 changes by telk5093 |
| 13:45 | <@Alberth> | already exists, in tropical climate :p |
| 13:45 | <KenjiE20> | because that's not in subtropic at all |
| 13:46 | <NGC3982> | the word subtropic makes me giggle |
| 13:46 | <NGC3982> | since it reminds me of Tropico. |
| 13:46 | * | NGC3982 starts #CubanTTD |
| 13:47 | <@Alberth> | FLHerne: like http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=161429 ? |
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| 13:50 | <telanus> | Cool: r24408 made openttd compile here |
| 13:50 | -!- | telanus is now known as telanus1 |
| 13:51 | -!- | telanus1 is now known as telanus |
| 13:51 | <FLHerne> | Alberth: That's even more painful on the eyes, even :o |
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| 13:51 | <@Alberth> | telanus: nice |
| 13:53 | <andythenorth> | zool! |
| 13:53 | <andythenorth> | toyland should look like zool! |
| 13:53 | <andythenorth> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zool |
| 13:54 | <@Alberth> | telanus: now you are one of the few with the new cargo monitoring functionality :) |
| 13:54 | <andythenorth> | sound track by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Phelan_(composer) |
| 13:54 | <andythenorth> | we should get him to do us a new sound track |
| 13:55 | <andythenorth> | can we make a GPL version of Lotus? |
| 13:55 | <andythenorth> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_(computer_games) |
| 13:55 | * | NGC3982 loves the anti time paradox. |
| 13:56 | <NGC3982> | Alberth: im in. |
| 13:56 | <NGC3982> | andythenorth: im in* |
| 13:56 | <andythenorth> | can you code? |
| 13:56 | <andythenorth> | graphics look straightforward :P |
| 13:56 | <andythenorth> | http://gremlinworld.emuunlim.com/amiga/lotus-2.gif |
| 13:57 | <Rubidium> | is there a remake of Stunts? |
| 13:57 | <andythenorth> | was that similar to Stunt Racer 2000? |
| 13:57 | <andythenorth> | or Stunt Car Racer? |
| 13:57 | <andythenorth> | oh I remember stunts |
| 13:57 | <andythenorth> | you could drive anywhere on the landscape |
| 13:58 | <andythenorth> | it was crappy performance on my friend's Amiga |
| 13:58 | <LordAro> | re recent commit: bad Alberth, forgot to run the script yesterday :P |
| 13:58 | <szaman> | my boss played stunts last week in his office |
| 13:58 | <szaman> | in dosbox :] |
| 13:58 | <andythenorth> | Stunt Racer 2000 was epic, it combined Stunts and Stunt Car Racer |
| 13:58 | <andythenorth> | but it was Acorn RISC OS only |
| 13:59 | <andythenorth> | so most of you never saw it :P |
| 13:59 | <@Alberth> | LordAro: I didn't add that file yesterday :p |
| 14:00 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: I did have a riscos machine, but not many games |
| 14:00 | <andythenorth> | Stunt Racer 2000 was epic, and Chocks Away |
| 14:00 | <andythenorth> | most other games were so-so or lame :P |
| 14:01 | <frosch123> | Rubidium: trackmania is the modern stunts |
| 14:01 | <andythenorth> | I ended up writing animations using basic |
| 14:01 | <andythenorth> | prefiguring my entire later life :P |
| 14:01 | <LordAro> | trackmania is awesome :) |
| 14:01 | * | LordAro is random comments guy today |
| 14:01 | <andythenorth> | I saw some space game being played today |
| 14:02 | <andythenorth> | you assemble rockets and launch them |
| 14:02 | <andythenorth> | looked neat |
| 14:03 | <andythenorth> | http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/ |
| 14:03 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: :o I know Chocks Away, LOTS of fun! |
| 14:03 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: could we recreate it? |
| 14:03 | <andythenorth> | an 8mhz, 2MB RISC OS device.... |
| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | so I guess we could probably get acceptable performance on a modern laptop? |
| 14:04 | <@Alberth> | I sold mine a long time ago :p |
| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | Open Chocks Away! |
| 14:04 | <@Alberth> | I don't see why that would not be possible |
| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | how hard can it be? |
| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | it did draw actual 3D vector graphics iirc |
| 14:05 | <@Alberth> | 1-2 years of work? |
| 14:05 | <andythenorth> | probably |
| 14:05 | <andythenorth> | they were small teams |
| 14:05 | <LordAro> | kerbal space program also looks awesome |
| 14:05 | <andythenorth> | 4th Dimension was only a few guys, and they also did e-type, stunt racer 2000, and that space thing |
| 14:06 | <Coupon12> | the openttd thing is missing files |
| 14:06 | <Coupon12> | ol' what was it called |
| 14:08 | <Coupon12> | oh nvm |
| 14:08 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: look how smooth it ran :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0x5JbmU6HU |
| 14:09 | <Coupon12> | I can never get spaceplanes to take off |
| 14:10 | <Coupon12> | They always fall off the side of the runway and crash |
| 14:11 | <Coupon12> | oh i thought you were talking about kerbal space program again |
| 14:11 | <frosch123> | what's that? |
| 14:11 | <frosch123> | amiga? |
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| 14:11 | <frosch123> | it starts with A |
| 14:12 | <frosch123> | but i only remember 3 digit numbers |
| 14:12 | <NGC3982> | andythenorth: "bwrrrrrrr" |
| 14:12 | <andythenorth> | Acorn |
| 14:12 | <andythenorth> | hmm maybe we track down Andrew Hutchings? |
| 14:12 | <andythenorth> | who was the author |
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| 14:13 | <andythenorth> | my friend is called Andrew Hutchings, I doubt they are the same person :P |
| 14:13 | <Coupon12> | heh |
| 14:14 | <Coupon12> | does anyone know of a program that can decompile assembly to c++ or c# |
| 14:16 | <andythenorth> | well this is Andrew Hutchings' brother apparently http://www.youtube.com/user/hoggler555 |
| 14:17 | <andythenorth> | who else had RISC OS? |
| 14:17 | <andythenorth> | Born_Acorn probably I guess |
| 14:17 | <andythenorth> | I think peter1138 did too |
| 14:17 | <Coupon12> | trying to build the openttd source code |
| 14:17 | <Coupon12> | oh wait it worked |
| 14:18 | <Coupon12> | is it possible to run openttd from visual studio? |
| 14:18 | <Coupon12> | with ctrl+f5 |
| 14:19 | <Coupon12> | Because when i try, this dialog comes up saying it requires graphics |
| 14:20 | <@Alberth> | Coupon12: yep, you need to install some data files too, read the readme file |
| 14:20 | <Coupon12> | I have them installed with the regular openttd |
| 14:20 | <Coupon12> | this is from visual studio |
| 14:21 | <@Alberth> | then they are not installed so they can be shared, I guess |
| 14:22 | <@Alberth> | Coupon12: note that "decompile" normally goes from high-level languages (C/C++ etc) to low-level languages (eg assembly language) |
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| 14:22 | <telanus> | Is there a way to make firs build Fishing harbours at the coast (on the edge of the map) and not in a small pond (in the middle of the map? |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | not really |
| 14:27 | <Coupon12> | ugh, when i try to download opengfx i get the yellow screen of death |
| 14:28 | * | andythenorth ponders removing fishing harbour |
| 14:29 | <Coupon12> | how do you download bundles? |
| 14:29 | <Hirundo> | andythenorth: just deliver fish directly to shops in towns? |
| 14:29 | <andythenorth> | maybe |
| 14:29 | <andythenorth> | I don't like including things that are irrevocably broken |
| 14:30 | <andythenorth> | fishing harbour is such a thing |
| 14:33 | <Coupon12> | alright, where do i put the opengfx files |
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| 14:42 | <telanus> | Andythenorth, what about fishing markets in towns? |
| 14:42 | <andythenorth> | possible |
| 14:43 | <andythenorth> | the harbours have to go I think |
| 14:43 | * | andythenorth ponders deleting the fishing chain entirely |
| 14:43 | <FLHerne> | andythenorth: Nooo! :-( |
| 14:44 | <andythenorth> | FIRS is too big |
| 14:44 | <FLHerne> | Provides a real use for small boats |
| 14:44 | <FLHerne> | And no, it's still too small :P |
| 14:45 | <FLHerne> | It needs fish markets and non-town-attached fish processing plants, then fishing chain will work better |
| 14:45 | <andythenorth> | that's more stuff, not less |
| 14:45 | <andythenorth> | less stuff is the goal |
| 14:46 | <FLHerne> | More stuff [i]should[/i] be the goal :-) |
| 14:46 | <FLHerne> | More stuff is good :D |
| 14:46 | <FLHerne> | Would it be possible to give fishing harbours integrated docks? They are [i]harbours[/i]... |
| 14:47 | <andythenorth> | no |
| 14:48 | <frosch123> | industries are neutral |
| 14:48 | <frosch123> | you cannot combine them with company owned stations |
| 14:48 | <FLHerne> | Can only water-surrounded things have docks, then? Or only primary industries? |
| 14:48 | <FLHerne> | Why can't they have neutral stations, anyway? |
| 14:48 | <andythenorth> | the water industries have a dock because there is no alternative |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | neutral stations are considered highly undesirable for gameplay |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | I don't know the issue, I never play in MP |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | but it was a flat 'no' |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | vetoed |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | also, they gain helicopter pads with the station |
| 14:49 | <FLHerne> | I think they mess up the transfers because you can use them to swap cargo between companies :-( |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | helipad causes bug reports |
| 14:50 | <FLHerne> | Can it detect SP v MP? |
| 14:50 | <andythenorth> | don't think so |
| 14:51 | <FLHerne> | Have a parameter then :P (default off maybe). It seems silly to have to build a dock to serve a harbour :P |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | parameters = string |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | string = buggy grf |
| 14:53 | <FLHerne> | How does that follow? |
| 14:53 | <andythenorth> | i.e. big ball of string running through the grf = bad |
| 14:53 | <andythenorth> | don't tie everything up in string |
| 14:53 | <andythenorth> | clean interface, not 'if x then z, but not on tuesdays' |
| 14:54 | <andythenorth> | basically fishing harbours are a stupid idea |
| 14:54 | <andythenorth> | and should go |
| 14:54 | <FLHerne> | Possibly, in that case. Have fish markets in towns, instead? :P |
| 14:55 | <andythenorth> | kind of boring |
| 14:55 | <andythenorth> | will mean always having to transfer |
| 14:55 | <FLHerne> | Which is good! :P |
| 14:55 | <andythenorth> | unless they end up on the coast |
| 14:55 | <FLHerne> | And the problem with transfers is...? |
| 14:56 | <andythenorth> | boring to set up |
| 14:56 | <andythenorth> | loads of clicks |
| 14:57 | <andythenorth> | although....it's not any worse than current fishing harbour situation |
| 14:57 | <FLHerne> | And the problem with clicks is...? :P |
| 14:57 | <andythenorth> | boring |
| 14:57 | <FLHerne> | Really? :o |
| 14:57 | <andythenorth> | the current fishing harbour placement often needs transfers anyway :P |
| 14:57 | <andythenorth> | as it's broken |
| 14:58 | <FLHerne> | No, the way OTTD generates water is broken :-( |
| 14:59 | <andythenorth> | ah |
| 14:59 | <andythenorth> | I'm not sure that FIRS fishing ground code survived the nml migration |
| 14:59 | <andythenorth> | I made harbours locate quite close to fishing grounds |
| 14:59 | <andythenorth> | it's very annoying when the only harbour is on the other side of the map to the fishing grounds |
| 14:59 | <FLHerne> | It makes no sense, there should be far more contiguous stuff, with lakes higher than sea level, rivers actually following catchment areas, etc :P |
| 14:59 | <andythenorth> | that code is missing in action |
| 15:00 | * | andythenorth wonders if other similar co-location code is MIA |
| 15:00 | <andythenorth> | the clustering is broken too |
| 15:00 | <FLHerne> | Not to mention downhill rivers from lakes to the sea, which just don't exist :-( |
| 15:00 | * | andythenorth -> pub |
| 15:00 | <andythenorth> | bye |
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| 15:48 | <NGC3982> | http://de.webfail.at/uploads/images/2473/post.jpg |
| 15:48 | <NGC3982> | meanwhile, in germany. |
| 15:50 | <frosch123> | who's that guy? |
| 15:52 | <telanus> | might be this bloke: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Guetta |
| 15:53 | -!- | lugo [GBerten293@oxygen.evosurge.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
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| 15:58 | <Chris_Booth> | take is someone doesn't like loud David Guetta |
| 15:59 | <Wolf01> | hello o/ |
| 16:00 | <Chris_Booth> | hi Wolf01 |
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| 16:12 | <Wolf01> | gah, I hate the Steam sales... Steam is already like a drug, when they start the sales it's an overdose! |
| 16:13 | <Wolf01> | (but my bank balance doesn't think the same) |
| 16:16 | * | Terkhen agrees :P |
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| 16:16 | <@Terkhen> | that's why they add so many free games and sell their own games dirt cheap to get you into it |
| 16:17 | <@Terkhen> | :D |
| 16:18 | <Wolf01> | when I started to use it there weren't free games :P |
| 16:18 | <Wolf01> | if not some rare cases |
| 16:21 | <__ln__> | is CitiesXL any good? |
| 16:23 | <Wolf01> | from the screenshots it looks promising |
| 16:23 | <@Terkhen> | yes, when I started there weren't many either |
| 16:23 | <@Terkhen> | but at some point they even made TF2 free :P |
| 16:24 | <Wolf01> | but I'm a n00b at these games, I didn't manage to run a Sim City 4 city for more than 5 years |
| 16:25 | <__ln__> | the screenshots do not really show anything about what's the gameplay like |
| 16:25 | -!- | sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] |
| 16:26 | <Wolf01> | I've seen some videos when it was announced, but I don't remember it well |
| 16:32 | <Sacro> | __ln__: it's not amazing |
| 16:32 | <Sacro> | SC4 with mods is better |
| 16:35 | <__ln__> | i see |
| 16:41 | <__ln__> | Wolf01: what's cheap (no more than 5€) and good? |
| 16:41 | <Wolf01> | let me se |
| 16:41 | <Wolf01> | see |
| 16:42 | <Wolf01> | trine, fable, but you must like the genres |
| 16:43 | <Wolf01> | assassin's creed (the first one) if you don't have it already |
| 16:43 | <Wolf01> | oh there is assassi'ns creed 2 too |
| 16:46 | <__ln__> | i guess i could pick one or two and try; i don't tend to play much so i'm a bit unfamiliar with games of the 2000's :) |
| 16:46 | <Wolf01> | then lurk on the star wars franchise pack |
| 16:46 | <Wolf01> | :) |
| 16:47 | <Wolf01> | I purchased it this xmas, all the dark forces saga |
| 16:48 | <Wolf01> | and the jedi knights too |
| 16:52 | <__ln__> | i have some something-jedi for ps3, but since i forgot its name i probably haven't played it in a while |
| 16:53 | <Wolf01> | the force unleashed maybe |
| 16:54 | <__ln__> | yeah, that's the one |
| 16:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Sacro: "10 year old game with mods" is always better than "brand new game rushed to a release" |
| 16:55 | <Wolf01> | you have a spectacular example: the game which names this channel :P |
| 16:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | also Civ4 with mods is "better" than Civ5 |
| 16:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | look at the balance fixes they did in the first few months... it's fairly obvious that it was rushed |
| 16:57 | * | Terkhen did not like Civ5 at all |
| 16:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | actually i do like Civ5. the gameplay is significantly different from Civ4, and thus interesting. |
| 16:58 | <Wolf01> | I only played Civ2 |
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| 16:59 | <telanus> | I've got Civ chronicles |
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| 17:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no idea what that even is |
| 17:05 | -!- | Coupon12 [4cb6f16c@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd |
| 17:05 | <Coupon12> | what part of the source code is for the trains and their stats? |
| 17:06 | <Coupon12> | like maximum speed? |
| 17:06 | <@Alberth> | none |
| 17:06 | <@Alberth> | they are coded in NewGRFs |
| 17:06 | <Coupon12> | then how do i change that |
| 17:06 | <@Alberth> | make a newgrf |
| 17:07 | <telanus> | Eddi|zuHause: http://www.civilization.com/chronicles/ |
| 17:07 | <Coupon12> | i mean the newgrf that has the code for the starting trains |
| 17:08 | <@Alberth> | Coupon12: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Main <-- that's a nice program for making newgrf |
| 17:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Coupon12: http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial |
| 17:08 | <@Alberth> | you can override almost anything from existing vehicles |
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| 17:13 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no idea if he got what he actually wanted |
| 17:17 | <telanus> | night alll |
| 17:18 | <Wolf01> | night telanus |
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| 17:19 | <NGC3982> | http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/599281_10150935337601466_1157165227_n.jpg |
| 17:19 | <NGC3982> | <3 |
| 17:20 | <Supercheese> | Too bad about .jpg, though ;) |
| 17:20 | <NGC3982> | ;_; |
| 17:21 | * | Supercheese wonders when .jpg will cease to be the standard image filetype |
| 17:22 | <+glx> | it's ok for photos |
| 17:22 | <Wolf01> | and if you use 100% quality it's really good ;) |
| 17:26 | <Supercheese> | The average user is completely unaware that there even is a quality option for .jpgs |
| 17:26 | <Supercheese> | Alas |
| 17:27 | <FLHerne> | Good for squeezing onto floopies, though :-) |
| 17:27 | <Wolf01> | http://globalgeeknews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/8GB-of-Floppy-Disks-in-1995-vs-8GB-of-Micro-SD-Today.jpg |
| 17:28 | <Supercheese> | I don't think I even have any device currently running with a floppy drive |
| 17:28 | <Supercheese> | some old computers in boxes, but that's about it |
| 17:28 | <FLHerne> | Wolf01: I have twice that number of floppies, but no MicroSD cards or card readers :P |
| 17:29 | <Wolf01> | ahah |
| 17:29 | <FLHerne> | USB thumb drives are nice, though |
| 17:29 | <FLHerne> | Made my floppies obsolete except for things without USB drives :-) |
| 17:30 | <Prof_Frink> | Floopy drive :D |
| 17:30 | <FLHerne> | s/drives/ports/ |
| 17:30 | <@Terkhen> | good night |
| 17:30 | <frosch123> | internet everywhere made any kind of mobile media obsolete |
| 17:30 | <Wolf01> | night Terkhen |
| 17:30 | <FLHerne> | Only if your device has wifi/Ethernet/Bluetooth, though :P |
| 17:31 | <FLHerne> | Terkhen: night |
| 17:31 | <Prof_Frink> | frosch123: The object sat next to me would disagree. |
| 17:31 | <Supercheese> | And even on devices with mobile internet, [Micro]SD is very useful for local storage, like for phones with limited internal memory |
| 17:32 | <FLHerne> | Tried internet over infra-red? Don't. It doesn't work :P |
| 17:32 | <Prof_Frink> | A couple of hundred gig of daily backups would not fit down the intertubes in an acceptable amount of time. |
| 17:32 | <frosch123> | if you never remove the storage from the device, then it's not mobile storage, is it? |
| 17:33 | <Supercheese> | I remove it all the time to transfer stuff between PC and device, but perhaps that's just me |
| 17:33 | <frosch123> | at least i wouldn't call a harddisk mobile, even if it is inside a notebook |
| 17:33 | <frosch123> | maybe, removable media is the more correct term :) |
| 17:34 | <Prof_Frink> | Not a harddisk, and definitely removable. |
| 17:35 | <frosch123> | well, maybe we can at least agree on the fakt, that dvd burners are useless except for stealing movies |
| 17:36 | <frosch123> | and even for that the usage is questionable |
| 17:36 | <FLHerne> | frosch123: Burning install disks |
| 17:36 | <Supercheese> | I can't remember the last time I used optical media on a PC outside of burning music CDs to play in my car |
| 17:37 | <Supercheese> | Oh, wait, it was to make a recovery CD for me OS |
| 17:37 | <FLHerne> | And transferring files that don't fit onto a floppy to transfer to non-networkable devices |
| 17:37 | <frosch123> | yeah, minimal boot cds :) |
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| 17:38 | <FLHerne> | And when you want to copy .openttd to another computer and lost your thumb drive :P |
| 17:40 | <frosch123> | what's the use of openttd without repository access? |
| 17:40 | <FLHerne> | Playing? |
| 17:41 | <FLHerne> | My laptop has CD-installed Debian, but no Ethernet :P |
| 17:41 | <frosch123> | hmm, i'll sleep over that :p |
| 17:41 | <frosch123> | night |
| 17:41 | <FLHerne> | Night |
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| 18:22 | <Wolf01> | 'night all |
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| 22:08 | <Elukka> | http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/IMG_0003.jpg |
| 22:09 | <Elukka> | he found he's rather fond of a third floor window as his perch |
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| --- | Log | closed Tue Jul 17 00:00:18 2012 |
