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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-07-23

---Logopened Mon Jul 23 00:00:28 2012
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02:33<@Terkhen>good morning
02:35<telanus>morning
02:40<NGC3982>morning.
02:40<Supercheese>but... it's night here
02:41<Supercheese>hmm, we need timezone agnostic times
02:41<Supercheese>good waking, perhaps
02:41<Supercheese>presuming awakening happened recently
02:44<telanus>could work
02:44<telanus>but one would get the same problem using good awakening
02:45<Supercheese>Too close to Great Awakening, perhaps
02:45<Supercheese>"Salve, excitate" for some Latin panache ;)
02:49<NGC3982>let's make irc timezone neutral
02:49<NGC3982>morning = "hi".
02:50<NGC3982>:/
02:55-!-telanus1 [~telanus@196-215-17-200.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd
02:56<telanus1>hi
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03:00<Supercheese>"Salve, excitate" instead of good morning, and "Vale, dormiture" instead of good night. :P
03:01<Supercheese>of course, that would violate the English-only rule
03:03<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: what's that supposed to solve?
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03:05<Supercheese>Utilizing Latin to provide concise, timezone-agnostic greetings and farewells
03:06<Supercheese>as opposed to "[good] morning", which is awkward when it's nighttime in your local timezone
03:06<Supercheese>anyhow, I'm sleepy and rambling
03:08<__ln__>i'm pretty sure "dormiture" means something like sleeping
03:08<Supercheese>it's easier in Latin; in English you'd have to say "Hi, recently-awakened"
03:08<Supercheese>or "Bye, about-to-sleep"
03:09<Supercheese>the literal translations :P
03:09<Supercheese>but I digress from anything relevant
03:10<__ln__>why don't we embrace Swatch® Internet Time, and say something like "good @730 everyone!"
03:11<Supercheese>Probably have to pay royalties for that
03:11<Supercheese>:P
03:12<Supercheese>Ceterum, dormiturus sum
03:12<Supercheese>Valete
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03:20*Terkhen will stick to good morning
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03:36<@planetmaker>moin
03:37<@Alberth>moin
03:37-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
03:38<@Alberth>moin andy
03:38<@Terkhen>hi planetmaker, Alberth and andythenorth
03:39<andythenorth>bonjour
03:44<@planetmaker>Alberth, should we maybe supply a pre-compiled version of zbase somewhen?
03:45<@planetmaker>Do you want? Shall I?
03:45<@planetmaker>(until I fix building with CF)
03:45*andythenorth looks for pictures of tankers
03:45<@Alberth>planetmaker: Seems like a good idea to me
03:46<@Alberth>planetmaker: can you dig up the terrain template you made?
03:47<@planetmaker>which do you mean?
03:47<@Alberth>currently I am running a python script to do the expansion
03:48<@planetmaker>hm, I made one for my toy. one moment
03:48<@Alberth>alternative_sprites(spr3924, ZOOM_LEVEL_NORMAL, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP) { tmpl_32bpp064_groundtiles("terrain/terrain_temperate", 73) } <-- the 'tmpl_32bpp064_groundtiles template
03:49<andythenorth>cement tanker http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1303783
03:49*andythenorth wants someone to draw conical tanks for a river barge
03:49<andythenorth>:P
03:49<@planetmaker>Alberth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1576/ <-- my sprites/templates/sprite_templates.pnml
03:49<@Alberth>a dutch ship!
03:50<andythenorth>:)
03:50<@planetmaker>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1577/ only the template
03:51<@Alberth>planetmaker: thanks, will put it into zbasebuild
03:51<@planetmaker>Alberth, you might consider whether line 11 is actually right
03:56<@Alberth>I have the same list
03:56<@Alberth>let's do a test :)
03:58<@planetmaker>Alberth, the image offsets are a plain copy from what you created in the python script ;-)
03:58<@planetmaker>I was far too lazy to figure out myself again :-P
03:58<@Alberth>at least they are now all wrong in the same way :p
03:59<@planetmaker>wrong?
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03:59-!-GBerten2936 is now known as lugo
04:00<@Alberth>betting they are wrong gives much better odds :)
04:02<Eddi|zuHause>so i've been wondering, what is the reasoning behind the ship-depot grid autosizing to sprite size, but not the purchase window?
04:04<@Alberth>there is none
04:04<andythenorth>changing the purchase window sprite size is smelly
04:05<andythenorth>chris sawyer decided it would be ~76px, and that shouldn't change
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04:05<@Alberth>CS didn't have large ships not articulated thingies
04:05<@Alberth>*nor
04:05<andythenorth>besides, this looks good, no? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3144/fish_buy_menu_7.png
04:06<andythenorth>nice crisp right hand edge to those sprites :P
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04:06<V453000>looks good to me andy
04:07*andythenorth was being English
04:07<andythenorth>it looks not great :
04:07<andythenorth>I don't hate it, but it could be better :P
04:07<@Alberth>I would chop off the bow, tbh
04:07<V453000>okay :D that it similar to what I am drawing atm
04:07<andythenorth>it's an unfair case because the ships aren't all drawn yet
04:07<andythenorth>they will have more variety when finished
04:08<andythenorth>anyway
04:08*andythenorth -> honest toil
04:08<andythenorth>bye
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04:08<@Alberth>bye
04:11*NGC3982 notices his laptop screen starts flickering at 90 degrees centigrade.
04:11<dihedral>greetings
04:11<dihedral>NGC3982, take it out of the oven once it gets a golden crisp
04:12<lugo>http://i.imgur.com/CthqX.jpg , ah andy is gone already i'd had request for a new cargo: ships
04:13<NGC3982>dihedral: it's an old toshiba satellite ive been using for work for five years now
04:13<NGC3982>it's holding 80-113C regularly, and havent had any real problems until now.
04:14<NGC3982>time to put the old horse on the shelf..
04:17<V453000>:DDD lugo
04:17<@peter1138>lugo, what the hell?
04:18-!-Elukka [Elukka@78-27-97-92.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
04:18<NGC3982>sweet jesus
04:18<NGC3982>photoshopped?
04:19<@peter1138>I don't think so.
04:23<__ln__>enhanced using adobe® photoshop® software?
04:23<@peter1138>Oh you!
04:24<Eddi|zuHause>i can tell by the pixels!
04:25-!-Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083e8a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
04:26<lugo>http://www.absoluut2.com/blog.php?categories=Captain%27s%20Log
04:26<NGC3982>after a few months of intense star trek plowing, i fail to read "enhance" without parapraxing' it to "engage".
04:36<dihedral>NGC3982, so you actually mean the screen flickers when the CPU reaches 90 degrees? :P
04:36<dihedral>or do you read GPU temperatures too?
04:36<dihedral>you could open up the laptop and remove all the dust from the fans and coolers, that usually helps
04:37<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: ever tried cleaning?
04:37<NGC3982>dihedral: im unabled to read the gpu sensor, for some reason.
04:37<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: it's not a dirt issue. the thermal compound has literally boiled away trough the years, and no fans work.
04:37<Eddi|zuHause>no computer should ever reach 90°C
04:38<NGC3982>that said, im going to use it until it dies (since it's mostly used as spare computing for some not-so-relevant statistics).
04:38<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, CPU's often used to reach 90 degrees C
04:38<NGC3982>it's an old dual-core
04:38<dihedral>oh - not THAT old then :-P
04:39<NGC3982>as i said, five years.
04:39<NGC3982>and probably four years accumulated uptime
04:39<NGC3982>im actually a bit suprised on how well it has worked.
04:39<V453000>my chipset on my asus used to have 120 degrees C :D
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04:39<NGC3982>giving no cooling is present
04:40<NGC3982>V453000: if i recall, speedfan gave me a top temp of 113C.
04:40<V453000>nice
04:40<Eddi|zuHause>not sure what you are proud of...
04:40<NGC3982>although, i don't think you could sigma-5 that result, if you catch my drift.
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04:41<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: that it still works, even with the temperature, and the fact that i dropped it like twenty times or something.
04:42-!-andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit []
04:42<V453000>lo
04:42<V453000>l
04:57<NGC3982>guys
04:57<NGC3982>i think i have a serious problem with openttd right now
04:57<NGC3982>ive been having these urges to play at work, at home, while away.
04:58<Eddi|zuHause>so?
04:58<NGC3982>im having a hard time letting go of it
04:58<Eddi|zuHause>so?
04:58<NGC3982>it's very bothering, and it creates frustration.
04:59<Eddi|zuHause>don't fight it, embrace it :)
05:01<NGC3982>well, i am. the problem is that it's affecting everything else.
05:02<NGC3982>i fail miserably at work, and that wont work as an employer.
05:02<NGC3982>at work/wont work/
05:03*NGC3982 uninstalls openttd from his work computers.
05:04<lugo>that sounds like a wise decision, but don't do browser games now :p
05:05<@peter1138>Like, say, Minecraft...
05:06<NGC3982>lugo: i find most modern games uninteresting.
05:06<NGC3982>openttd is something special, indeed.
05:06<lugo>http://jsc.sourceforge.net/examples/web/ThreeDStuff/IsometricWithToolbar.htm
05:07<NGC3982>what the
05:07<NGC3982>:D
05:07<lugo>with zombies lol
05:07<__ln__>or like, say, http://play-ttd.com/
05:07<NGC3982>that looks fantastic.
05:07<dihedral>I think there needs to be an extra statement in the readme: OpenTTD can be addicting
05:07<dihedral>__ln__, that always kills my browser :-P
05:08*NGC3982 notices that play-ttd.com doesnt work on his phone browser.
05:08<NGC3982>i guess that's a stand-alone singleplayer ttd-deluxe client?
05:08<NGC3982>if it was openttd-ish, it would be neat to control (or monitor) servers
05:08<__ln__>it is openttd
05:09<NGC3982>:-O
05:09<NGC3982>not going to open, not going to open, not going to open..
05:09<NGC3982>by the way
05:10<@peter1138>It's okay, it's too slow to be playable.
05:10<NGC3982>can i restart a server with a new size (and generated landscape) with rcon only?
05:12<@planetmaker>yes
05:12<NGC3982>where can i find documentation about it? the wiki doesnt seem to have anything on it.
05:12<@planetmaker>but tedious
05:12<@planetmaker>iirc you can set the newgame variables explicitly
05:12<@planetmaker>just the normal rcon documentation
05:12<NGC3982>oh?
05:13<@planetmaker>I might be wrong, though. Too tedious :-)
05:13<@planetmaker>and you have the admin interface (port 3977) to actually do that "better"
05:14*NGC3982 looks into it.
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05:27*NGC3982 re-installs openttd.. :(
05:28<@Alberth>better just think to work hard so you can play it later at home
05:30<NGC3982>the thing is, i have been working around the clock for the last three years
05:30<NGC3982>openttd helped me 'de-stress' alot
05:31<NGC3982>but now it's almost the other way around.
05:31<NGC3982>:)
05:34<@Alberth>stupid HG question. I have some uncommitted changes in my current revision. Someone else has added one new revision which I pulled. Now how do I update to tip again without discarding my changes?
05:34<@peter1138>commit
05:34<@Alberth>obviously I can commit and then merge, or diff the changes to a file, revert, update, and apply the file
05:34<@peter1138>i never figured it out
05:34<@peter1138>and thus i don't use hg
05:37<@peter1138>i think it's just not designed to let you do that
05:37<@Alberth>seems that way :(
05:37<@peter1138>http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4696466/mercurial-says-abort-outstanding-uncommitted-changes-i-dont-want-to-commit
05:39<@Alberth>too complicated :p
05:39<@peter1138>indeed
05:40<@Alberth>so how do you manage the weird flags and settings of git?
05:40<@Alberth>or are they natural to you?
05:45<@Alberth>the 'official' explanation: http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/FAQ#FAQ.2BAC8-CommonProblems.Why_won.27t_Mercurial_let_me_merge_when_I_have_uncommitted_changes.3F
05:45<@peter1138>who said i use git? :-)
05:45<@Alberth>ie too complicated to do
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06:18<@planetmaker>Alberth: can't you simply run "hg up"?
06:20<@planetmaker>if you have already divergent commits: the recommended way according to #mercurial is a merge. Alternatives are to commit and then hg qimport as much so that you don't have several heads
06:20<@Alberth>nope, but the picture was more complicated than I thought, I had a local commit as well
06:20<@planetmaker>or alternatively pull and rebase
06:20<@planetmaker>(though rebase is mostly a short for the qimport way)
06:21<@planetmaker>that's what I assumed, Alberth :-) As hg just updates fine with only uncommited stuff ;-)
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06:43<@Alberth>planetmaker: any idea what goes wrong here? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1578/
06:44<@Alberth>ie the nml error is old, it belongs to the previous version of the template file
06:44<@planetmaker>hm?
06:45<@planetmaker>isn't it simply missing a template definition?
06:45<@Alberth>I'd expect the deps to get rebuild, but it breaks
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06:45<@planetmaker>tmpl_32bpp_zoom_additional_rough
06:45<@planetmaker>defined anywhere?
06:46<@planetmaker>hm... ho... I might have missed that in the template only paste I posted
06:46<@Alberth>it was a missing template definition, I fixed that already, the error is old, the .pnml template file has changed
06:46<@Alberth>but the system doesn't generate a new nml file
06:47<@planetmaker>ah. Yes. It's a bit broken... :S
06:47<@planetmaker>touch sprites/ogfx*pnml
06:47<@Alberth>ugh :(
06:47<@planetmaker>it's a makefile failure
06:47<@planetmaker>not of yours
06:48<@Alberth>ok, that is a work around
06:49<@planetmaker>alternatively try "make remake"
06:50<@Alberth>but it makes you wonder how to do dependency generation in a makefile :)
06:50<@planetmaker>it's a bit tricky... ;-)
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06:54<Arafangion>Tricky because that's *recursive* make there, unless I'm badly mistaken.
06:55<@planetmaker>yes-ish
06:56<@Alberth>mostly because you need dependencies to decide whether you need to update dependencies
06:56<@Alberth>which gives unpleasant effects when you delete files
06:58<@planetmaker>and that's where we are...
06:58<@Alberth>but I am not doing that
06:59<@planetmaker>Alberth: I shall try to put the re-write into use on zbasebuild
06:59<@planetmaker>it *should* behave better
06:59<@planetmaker>but I haven't put it to much use except in DutchTrains(?) from foobar and on iirc fish
06:59<@planetmaker>but I might get around to that only tomorrow
06:59<@Alberth>perhaps we should do what openttd does, namely generate deps in a separate program
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07:02<@planetmaker>well. maybe... but run time is an issue, too
07:02<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker still has the scariest avatar...
07:02<@planetmaker>:D
07:02<@planetmaker>and for once it's not even a ripped image from *somewhere* ;-)
07:02<NGC3982>hmz.
07:05<NGC3982>can town density be altered via newgrf?
07:05<NGC3982>(where town density is the maximum of usable passengers per tile)
07:05<NGC3982>is such a number exist, that is.
07:05<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's defined per house
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Houses#Population_.280B.29_and_Mail_generation_multiplier_.280C.29
07:12<@peter1138>rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (6769 bytes received so far) [sender]
07:12<@peter1138>rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(601) [sender=3.0.7]
07:12<@peter1138>fun :S
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07:30<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: it's a MITM attack!!
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07:32<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause: it's a local sync, no network involved...
07:39<@Alberth>yeah, a Man In The Machine attack
07:41<@peter1138>:-)
07:41<NGC3982>heh, that's my nickname at work.
07:47<__ln__>what was the law like about taking photos in public places in France?
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure it is more lenient than the former east german law :p
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07:51<__ln__>what was that like? :p
07:52<@Alberth>planetmaker: zbasebuild should perhaps also use a different name than opengfx in its binary?
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07:54<LordAro>peter1138: how do you manage to break your software so much/often? ;)
07:55<@planetmaker>Alberth: yes, possibly. Whatabout "zBase" :-P. At least the announced name. And actually also grfID. Hm
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: basically it was forbidden as a foreigner to photograph things like railways. you could get arrested, and in the least serious case your film was taken away
07:55<@planetmaker>though I don't really mind passing it off as OpenGFX, tbh
07:57<@planetmaker>but indeed, Alberth, it's a problem to "just build as-is". It'll get a lower revision than opengfx, thus current opengfx will seem newer to openttd than zbasebuild
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: call it OpenGFX32?
07:57<@planetmaker>(which is a backdraw of the symlinks as opposed to real clone)
07:57<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: sounds like modern-day USA...
07:57<@Alberth>I was mostly thinking of name and error report confusion
07:57<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: thought about that. Might be good. But... It's also 8bpp OpenGFX. Thus...
07:58<@planetmaker>Alberth: yes. Iff we publish it as OpenGFX - then it will be OpenGFX. There's little way back
07:58<@planetmaker>tbh, I'd not mind going that way
07:58<@planetmaker>I'm only a bit hesitant because of Zephyris' reply as 'test ground'
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: an AMD x64 also contains a 32bit mode...
07:59<@planetmaker>on the other hand... would it hurt, to have "experimental" 32bpp in OpenGFX?
08:01<@peter1138>what's wrong with zBase?
08:02<@peter1138>it's not near finished yet is it?
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>what's the meaning of "zbase"?
08:02<@planetmaker>it's not finished yet. And to build it you need all of OpenGFX anyway
08:02<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: no real meaning. Other than maybe Zephyris' base graphics ;-)
08:02<@peter1138>Zephyris BASEset
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i'd still of the opinion that you should offer "pure" OpenGFX besides "OpenGFX32"
08:04<@peter1138>32bpp sucks :p
08:04<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: but it's (currently) a choice of the user to choose 8bpp or 32bpp
08:04<@peter1138>especially my bits of code
08:04<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: yes, but is it also a choice of the user to download 8bpp or 32bpp?
08:05<@peter1138>did the special case for destroyed vehicles ever get added?
08:05<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: no(t yet). But that can (and shall) be implemented in bananas that it offers the full or the 8bpp-only download
08:05<@Alberth>planetmaker: naming it opengfx makes it 'official', perhaps more than wanted at this stage
08:05<@planetmaker>md5sums don't differ
08:07<@peter1138>it's probably up to zephyris to decide when he's ready...
08:07<@Alberth>"zbase" seems a safer alternative for now, to me
08:07<@peter1138>yeah
08:08<@planetmaker>ok. I'll try to commit the changes. Maybe today, possibly I find time only tomorrow
08:09<@Alberth>np, the worst that can happen is a more complete 32bpp base set :)
08:09<@planetmaker>yup :-) you do great work there, imho
08:10<@planetmaker>as does zephyris
08:10<@planetmaker>hm.. Alberth, but should I merge opengfx in order to build it via CF? It's a one-time big commit. But doesn't hurt much really
08:10<@planetmaker>hm... and zbase itself? as well?
08:10<@planetmaker>would seem proper, I'd recon
08:11<@Alberth>(14:19:19) planetmaker: hm... and zbase itself? as well? <-- I don't understand this
08:12<@planetmaker>Alberth: hg pull -f path/to/zbase && hg pull -f path/to/opengfx
08:13<@planetmaker>replacing the symlinks by the actual repo contents
08:13<@Alberth>oh, you mean merge both repos into zbasebuild?
08:13<@planetmaker>yup
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08:14<@planetmaker>I still like this light main repo really...
08:15<@Alberth>the other option is to merge opengfx into zbase, and copy the zbasebuild scripts over (with or without merge, I don't care much)
08:15<@planetmaker>maybe making it official sub repos for now. I'll look into that
08:15<@Alberth>hg archive may be useful
08:15<@planetmaker>how?
08:16<@Alberth>ie 'create an unversioned archive of a repository revision' as part of the zbasebuild build
08:16<@planetmaker>I know what it does... but what do you want to do with the archive?
08:17<@planetmaker>(when the CF builds the source bundles it uses hg archive to some degree)
08:17<@Alberth>hg archive http://localhost/opengfx ; hg archive http://localhost/zbase ; make
08:18<@Alberth>if you don't want to merge
08:18<@planetmaker>the cleaner solution is using sub repos
08:18<@planetmaker>as there the actual revision is stored
08:21<@planetmaker>maybe I can convince hg to find the sub repos alongside zbasebuild
08:30<@planetmaker>sub repos. They allow relative paths like ../opengfx or ../zbase
08:30<@planetmaker>On the cost of that it might fail to clone in the presence of missing write permissions
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08:34<@Alberth>../ is not really needed
08:35<@planetmaker>Alberth: not needed... but then it'd create new clones of those repos
08:36<@Alberth>doesn't that happen anyway?
08:37<@planetmaker>Alberth: with the sub-repos being the repos as they're now: no
08:37<@planetmaker>currently it's symlinks which hg doesn't know about. The idea with the relative paths of the sub repos is to tell hg about those
08:37<@planetmaker>without changing anything else except the sub repo knowledge in zbasebuild
08:38<@Alberth>if that works, without pulling a new clone, then moving the current repos to a new position in zbasebuild and then adding as subrepo should also work, right?
08:39<@Alberth>the latter does mean either all symlinks move, or all zbase paths change
08:40<@planetmaker>using sub repos might mean that all zbase and opengfx paths change.... maybe.
08:40<@planetmaker>I'll give it a play-around
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09:01<@Alberth>bbl
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09:02<@Belugas>hello
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>finally a sensible reaction: "USA forbid batman costumes in cinemas"
09:11<NGC3982>that sounds like a sensational interpretation of "covered faces is prohibited".
09:14-!-Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.230] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces]
09:19<Warod>now everyone should just get a headband with batman ears. :>
09:19<Warod>So the bottom of the screen would be like ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ for everyone behind. ;)
09:19<NGC3982>\o/
09:20<__ln__>\^o^/
09:21<NGC3982>ah, i love this
09:21<NGC3982>there is surely evidence of natural chaotisism in openttd
09:22<NGC3982>changing a tiny parameter gets absurd implikations
09:22<NGC3982>-gets + gives
09:22<@planetmaker>tiny like acceleration model?
09:23<NGC3982>exactly
09:23<NGC3982>or correcting a turn
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>"the buttertrain effect"?
09:27<NGC3982>:D
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09:31<@planetmaker>*flap flap*
09:33*NGC3982 notes how hawaii disapears.
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09:44*Belugas does so much not feel like working...
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>a laptop with a battery uptime of 1h is... unwieldy...
09:45<@Belugas>mine has problems giving me only 20 minutes...
09:46<TWerkhoven>i've got one that shows 100% for 10, then shuts down cus of low battery
09:46<TWerkhoven>well, it did untill it went bust
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>i have a feeling the laptop is way faster after deactivating the windows swapfile
09:55<NGC3982>the asus 39jc extends 10 hours with linux
09:55<NGC3982>u36jc*
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11:02<NGC3982>my god, im in bsd enviroment for the first time
11:06<andythenorth>make sure you know your safe word
11:06<NGC3982>i fail to find information on how i start a server with a loaded grf in bsd
11:15<NGC3982>bah, i need help.
11:15-!-KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.7.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
11:15<NGC3982>im having ssh access to this bsd openttd-server
11:15<NGC3982>and im trying to start it with a certain grf setup
11:16<NGC3982>as far as the intarwebz tell me, im simply supposed to put the grf files in /openttd/data
11:16<NGC3982>but that catalogue doesnt exist, as far as i can see.
11:17<andythenorth>mkdir ?
11:17<NGC3982>i cant even find /openttd/
11:17<NGC3982>the only referenses i find is for linux
11:17<NGC3982>and not bsd
11:17<NGC3982>so im a bit ..puzzled.
11:18<andythenorth>see if it has a locate db that is up to date...
11:18<Rubidium>even then, /openttd is more likely wrong
11:18<andythenorth>to test this try
11:18<andythenorth>locate openttd
11:18<Rubidium>NGC3982: what does the readme say?
11:18<NGC3982>i have .openttd
11:18<NGC3982>Rubidium: i cant find one.
11:19<andythenorth>biab
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11:36<NGC3982>this is un-intuitive.
11:37<NGC3982>crap operating system with crap controls and crap stuff.
11:37<NGC3982>and stuff.
11:37<NGC3982>and no bloody documentation
11:43<Warod>hahaha
11:43<Warod>BSD?
11:43<Warod>or something else?
11:43<telanus2>maybe windows?
11:43-!-telanus2 is now known as telanus
11:44<Warod>windows is a crap operating system with quite crap controls but with less crap documentation. :P
11:49<telanus>anyone know why this is happening: http://goput.it/shz.png
11:49<telanus>only have CETS active
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11:53<@planetmaker>and the issue is?
11:54<@planetmaker>I see a steam train driving and all in good order
11:55<@planetmaker>^ telanus
11:55<telanus>shouldn't have graphics?
11:55<@planetmaker>nope
11:55<@planetmaker>it's not yet released, is it?
11:55<telanus>a green box looks a bit unrealistic
11:56<telanus>don't know
11:56<@planetmaker>I know that it's not ;-)
11:56<@planetmaker>builds of test versions are freely available. But ... what you show is quite normal there
11:57<@planetmaker>it allows coding the stuff without actual graphics
11:57<telanus>ahh
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11:59<@planetmaker>btw, it's not like the train has _no_ graphics. It just has a bit box-like ones
11:59<@planetmaker>;-)
12:01<@Belugas>mmh.. when the ads on tt-forums are more interesting than the actual forums, it might be a problem...
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12:04<@planetmaker>lol, Belugas :-)
12:07<@Belugas>;)
12:08<@Belugas>i have to admit, though, a new guitar is more interesting to me, no matter the realism of the subject
12:08<@Belugas>buwhahaha!!!
12:10<@planetmaker>you should look at it realisically ;-)
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12:59*LordAro waves at Alberth
12:59<LordAro>and frosch123
13:00-!-Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
13:00<@Alberth>hi LordAro
13:00<LordAro>hmmm, why TruBrain, Rubdium or frosch not get (automatic) OP/voice in channel?
13:02<@planetmaker>a case of "not care" or "not want" supposedly
13:04<@Belugas>add a feature request!
13:04<@Belugas>i should indeed, planetmaker :)
13:05*andythenorth feature requests a new brain
13:05<andythenorth>one that is more true
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13:11<@DorpsGek>lordaro: they are hiding; all complains and issues go to me
13:11<@DorpsGek>i get many personal support requests via pm
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13:17<TrueBrain>andythenorth: is that an insult? :D
13:17<andythenorth>not intentionally
13:17<andythenorth>:)
13:17<TrueBrain>;)
13:18<andythenorth>I am not entirely in my right head at the moment
13:18<TrueBrain>who's are you in?
13:18<andythenorth>I have not slept properly for 7 days
13:18<TrueBrain>ugh
13:18<TrueBrain>your tiny ones sick again?
13:18<andythenorth>I have two sick kids and have caught their disease
13:18<TrueBrain>best of luck with that :(
13:18<andythenorth>ach
13:18<andythenorth>it's fine
13:18<andythenorth>I'm just a bit
13:19<andythenorth>...somewhere else
13:19<andythenorth>turns out I can still write code :P
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13:19<TrueBrain>kewl :D
13:19<Wolf01>kewlo :D
13:23<andythenorth>I often look at my code and think someone else wrote it anyway
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13:26<NGC3982>here comes a bit of a paste:
13:26<NGC3982>[newgrf]
13:26<NGC3982>~/.openttd/data/pb_ukrs.grf
13:26<NGC3982>~/.openttd/data/ukrsap1w.grf
13:26<NGC3982>this is added to the openttd.cfg in root, on this bsd server.
13:27<NGC3982>i have verified the path name
13:27<NGC3982>and yet, im unabled to start a game with the grfs
13:27<NGC3982>and im starting to feel a bit clueless.
13:28<@Alberth>"unable to start"? in what way?
13:28<NGC3982>when starting a dedicated game, it responds to all the other changes in the cfg, but it simply doesnt add and run the grf's.
13:29<frosch123>NGC3982: drop the "~/.openttd/data/" part
13:29<frosch123>and add a " =" at the end
13:29<@Alberth>good point
13:29<NGC3982>oh, the =
13:29<NGC3982>right, sorry.
13:29<NGC3982>bah.
13:30<NGC3982>oh, it ..uhm, works without the = now.
13:30<NGC3982>:E
13:31<frosch123>you're lucky then :)
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r24433 /trunk/src/lang/ (belarusian.txt korean.txt):
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: belarusian - 9 changes by KorneySan
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: korean - 21 changes by telk5093
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14:14<andythenorth>you know how I hardly ever make feature requests?
14:14-!-Sleepie [~Sleepie@p50847954.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:14<Sleepie>hi
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14:15<andythenorth>well I have a feature request
14:15<FLHerne>andythenorth: What's the feature request then? :P
14:15<andythenorth>flat docks
14:15<FLHerne>For canals?
14:16<FLHerne>+1
14:16<andythenorth>for wherever
14:17<andythenorth>I know that one day, if we're all really good, and eat our greens, and send santa a nice letter, a viable newports spec might emerge, then somebody might make a patch, and it might be accepted to trunk, and then we might be able to extend that to docks properly, and everything will then be great
14:17<FLHerne>Well, you won't find many flat areas next to the sea :P
14:17<andythenorth>but don't you ever want to just frivolously incur some technical debt?
14:18<andythenorth>it's not like it actually costs us money to fix it :P
14:19*andythenorth just wants to be able to build sea level docks using the canals->dynamite trick
14:19<andythenorth>can't justify it, just think it's fun :P
14:20<andythenorth>ho
14:20<andythenorth>that would allow similar to 'bouys have stations' as in ttdp
14:20<FLHerne>I do find the 'wait for the universal-every-possible-related-feature patch' attitude annoying sometimes :-(
14:20<andythenorth>build a 1 tile dock on water, with water tile as ground sprite
14:21<FLHerne>Especially for airport closing/overbuild, which already exists as a stableish patch :P
14:22<andythenorth>stableish?
14:22<andythenorth>probably ready for trunk if it's stableish :P
14:23<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: would you favour 1 tile flat docks, or 2 tile (with orientations)
14:23<andythenorth>assuming we play a theoretical game here :P
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>multi-tile docks... :)
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>(with one ship per loading bay, similar to airports)
14:23<andythenorth>sounds like newports :P
14:24<andythenorth>what about a hack version?
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>don't do hacks.
14:24<FLHerne>andythenorth: Like normal docks, but allow the land side to be built on a flat tile
14:25<Supercheese>"FISH Revision 790:da1106bcaa94: Change: autorefit more or less works now"
14:25<Supercheese>Yay!
14:25<Supercheese>Now to wait for a semi-stable nightly
14:25<andythenorth>take note of the 'less'
14:25<andythenorth>it's all about to change anyway
14:25<Supercheese>Hence the waiting :P
14:25<andythenorth>I'm redesigning the set ;)
14:26<@Alberth>going for SHARK :)
14:26<Supercheese>rofl
14:26<__ln__>good @810 everyone!
14:26<Sleepie>Alberth: but it then needs a sequel ATTACK ;)
14:27<andythenorth>reverse acronym SHARK?
14:27<@Alberth>not all sharks eat flesh
14:27<andythenorth>also I want ottd - toddler edition
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>are there shark vultures? :)
14:28<andythenorth>the n-s / e-w building tools are removed, and replace by one tool that builds loops, complete with depot
14:28<andythenorth>this would make my life easier
14:28<andythenorth>especially as I have to build the damn things one handed
14:28<andythenorth>not easy on a trackpad :P
14:28<Supercheese>script it, then
14:29<Supercheese>few lines of autohotkey or whatnot ;)
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>make a gamescript that reads your sign locations and builds the routes, then you only need to place signs
14:29<andythenorth>nice idea
14:30<andythenorth>meanwhile....FISH :P
14:30<@Alberth>andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/bigsize.png size seems fine :)
14:30<Sleepie>can you coop with a gamescript?
14:31<@Alberth>fighting a gamescript is a lot harder, as it has more powers than you
14:31*andythenorth needs to 1.0 more newgrfs :P
14:32<andythenorth>then I can invent reverse acronyms for GS
14:32<andythenorth>seems all the action is there these days
14:32<andythenorth>newgrf is so....over :P
14:32<@Alberth>but you can program anything in a gamescript, I see no reason why you could not program something co-op-ish
14:32<Sleepie>I haven't tried playing with a gamescript yet nor with one of the new AIs, but both look very interesting
14:32<andythenorth>"I would advise anyone who is serious about their career these days to learn GS. Newgrf is yesterday's technology"
14:33<andythenorth>"Recruiters will find you more attractive if you have GS on your CV, compared to newgrf"
14:33*andythenorth might be short of sleep
14:33*andythenorth goes off to troll lego forums
14:33<@Alberth>and if you name it "Squirrel" some may recognize it even :)
14:34<Sleepie>andythenorth: which one? eurobricks?
14:34<andythenorth>yup
14:34<Sleepie>well I'm more or less just lurking there lately to less time
14:35<Hirundo>bbl
14:35<Sleepie>I also build not much in the last month just bought some sets for parts on sale
14:35<andythenorth>I like lego a lot. I don't always like AFOLs
14:36<Sleepie>me too
14:36<Sleepie>yeah some of them sometimes really spoil the fun
14:37<Sleepie>but who cares I just ignore those
14:37<andythenorth>they are silly strange paranoid obsessives
14:37<andythenorth>actually, so am I :P
14:37<FLHerne>andythenorth: SHips And maRine Kraft?
14:37<andythenorth>try harder
14:37<FLHerne>True. Misspelling doesn't count :P
14:38<andythenorth>Ships Are Really Killing Stuff
14:38<FLHerne>:-)
14:38<andythenorth>Shark Adds Riverine Kudos
14:39<andythenorth>Shark Applies Regatta Kings
14:39*andythenorth sticks with FISH
14:40<andythenorth>gah
14:40<andythenorth>now I have to rewrite my build script to handle tankers :|
14:41<andythenorth>whose idea was that? :/
14:41<Sleepie>yours, wasn't it?
14:41<Sleepie>:P
14:43<andythenorth>I have four properties for capacity: pax, mail, freight, liquid
14:43<andythenorth>I use these to figure out classes
14:44<andythenorth>using an if/else block that was ugly when there were three capacity props
14:44<andythenorth>now it will be super-ugly
14:44<andythenorth>what's a better way?
14:44<andythenorth>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1581/
14:45<andythenorth>ho
14:45*andythenorth thinks of at least two silly ways to do it :o
14:45<andythenorth>which are more elegant
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14:45<@Alberth>4-tuple with conditions on each property
14:45<Supercheese>bitmask the properties?
14:46<Supercheese>or whatever equivalent
14:47<andythenorth>if prop > 0, push to list, then '_'.join() on the list to get the class group name
14:47<andythenorth>Alberth: ^ my idea is effectively same as what you said?
14:47<@Alberth>somewhat, I can code a "dont-care" condition
14:50<andythenorth>how do I implement yours?
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14:52<@Alberth>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1582/
14:53<@Alberth>oh, vals and conds should be swapped I see
14:53*andythenorth will never be a proper programmer :P
14:54<andythenorth>I just never see these patterns
14:54<andythenorth>are there any climates / industry sets with no liquid cargos
14:54<andythenorth>[would make tanker default cargo problematic]
14:59<Sleepie>hmm I dunno if possible, but can you query if liquid cargos are available? if then you can disable tankers when necessary.
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15:04<NGC3982>hmz
15:04<NGC3982>how do i change the value of train reversing in the console?
15:06<andythenorth>I can't think of any good case for a freight ship that can't also carry liquid
15:06<frosch123>vehicles disable themself if they are refittable to nothing, while they are supposed to be refittable
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think you can change difficulty settings from the console
15:06<andythenorth>frosch123: thanks
15:07<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: so i cant change difficulty options in a started network game?
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15:57<LordAro>desktop environment keeps breaking -.-
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16:05<FLHerne>LordAro: Which one? :P
16:05<LordAro>xfce
16:05<LordAro>seems to be something like this: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=97013&p=561234&hilit=freeze
16:05<FLHerne>Ah. Not tried that one :P
16:07*LordAro doesn't touch Gnome 3 with bargepole :P
16:07<@Terkhen>good night
16:07<FLHerne>Me neither. Awful mess. KDE4 has finally got stableish, though :-)
16:08<FLHerne>Terkhen: 'night
16:17<Wolf01>LordAro, I use it too, it broke seriously a couple of times, but I always managed to get it working again ;)
16:18<LordAro>my (limited) understanding of the current problem is that it's deeper than the desktop environment, it's a problem with X itself :(
16:19<LordAro>symptoms: the screen freezes when running fullscreen games, such as wine programs, assaultcube and others
16:20<Wolf01>I found it once running without window frames (ever message popups were fullscreen or impossible to move) and I have always problems with firefox
16:20<Wolf01>I can't play on that pc, so I didn't care :P
16:20<Wolf01>it's an old y2k laptop
16:21<LordAro>i can restart X (ctrl+alt+backspace) but it's still not right, e.g. minecraft and others will not start correctly, only black screening and using 100% cpu
16:21<Wolf01>which video card?
16:21<LordAro>the problem cmpletely fixes itself on reboot, but...
16:21<LordAro>ATI HD Radeon 6570
16:22<Wolf01>ati 6xyz too here, and same symptom with minecraft, I never managed to get it running
16:24<LordAro>:(
16:25<LordAro>idk, i think i'll ask on the forums
16:25<LordAro>(linux mint forums, tt-forums isn't so great at tech support :) )
16:25<LordAro>not bad though :L
16:27<FLHerne>Interesting. Minecraft and AssaultCube blackscreen and freeze here when I try to fullscreen them, but switching virtual terminals and back again fixes it for some reason :P
16:44<frosch123>night
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16:49<LordAro>well, either way, an update pack is expected in the next couple of weks, i'll complain then
17:05<andythenorth>bye
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17:17<FLHerne>LordAro: Mint 13 XFCE is now out :D
17:17<FLHerne>Along with the KDE version, which is even better :P
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17:23<Supercheese>Lots of folks here use GIMP, yes? Is there a way to use the new Single Window mode while still keeping the legacy saving method, rather than the new Export method? Or am I stuck with the new way?
17:23<Supercheese>Currently I'm using 2.6, but I'd like to update to 2.8
17:25<Supercheese>having to manually export things to PNG rather than ctrl+s is a major pain
17:26<NGC3982>how do i hinder reliability lowerage?
17:27<LordAro>FLHerne: Linux Mint Debian Edition FTW :L
17:28<NGC3982>i cant seem to get the trains to ignore the reliability percentage.
17:31<FLHerne>LordAro: Considered that. Possibility if normal Mint doesn't suit.
17:31<NGC3982>for crap sake
17:31<NGC3982>how can i un-send groups to a depot?
17:31*NGC3982 gets bancrupt.
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>hit pause and select each train individually
17:32<NGC3982>oh god,
17:32<NGC3982>that means i made a fataly illed click on the wrong button.
17:32<NGC3982>:P
17:32<Supercheese>Can't you just tell the group to all go to depot again, which will cancel the depot order?
17:33<Supercheese>or does that not work?
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17:41<Eddi|zuHause>it might be useful to put "cancel depot order" into the manage list dropdown
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18:48<Wolf01>'night
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19:38<Sleepie>Hmm self transporting oil ;) -> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=61644
19:40<Supercheese>Yep, very nice implementation of pipelines
19:41<Supercheese>Now to edit the DWE grf to make those pipeline-stations traversable by the new pipe-engines ;)
19:42<Sleepie>yep that would be cool
19:42<Supercheese>changing a few lines of hex here and there
19:42<Supercheese>just gotta find where they are :P
19:43<Sleepie>with this you finally transport oil from oil wells to refinery with a pipeline only
19:43*Supercheese doesn't want to bother with decompiling and recompiling via grfcodec
19:43*Sleepie first needs to learn grf coding at all
19:47<Supercheese>Now, if I could decompile to NML instead of NFO, then of course I'd do that
19:47<Supercheese>but NFO is bleh to try and read
19:48<Supercheese>unless the author commented the &$%! out of it
19:49<Sleepie>I dunno if thats even possible (decompiling to nml)
19:50<Sleepie>but I think NML makes it easier to dive slowly into NFO
19:51*Sleepie plans to play or most-likely mess around a bit with NML in the near future
19:52*Supercheese finds the spots to hex edit
19:53<Sleepie>then just do it :P
19:54*Supercheese crosses his fingers and hopes his edits work
19:55<Sleepie>The red box will tell you :P
19:55<Supercheese>d'oh, the pipes don't line up
19:56<Supercheese>forgot to check that ahead of time
19:56<Supercheese>the edit did work though
19:56<Supercheese>pipe arrows slide into the DWE pipe station
19:56<Sleepie>screenshot?
19:57<Supercheese>grabbing
19:58<Supercheese>http://i45.tinypic.com/eam5hj.png
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19:58<Supercheese>alignment off, the arrows don't draw over the pipes
19:59<Supercheese>but the pipe engines use the station
19:59<Sleepie>yeah so it works
19:59<Sleepie>it only needs to be fixed graphics
20:00<Supercheese>mentioning that in thread now
20:01<Sleepie>yep good idea
20:01<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=61644&p=1035452#p1035452
20:02<Supercheese>lemme check license on DWE, see if I can send you the edited .grf
20:03<Supercheese>ah, it's GPL
20:05<Sleepie>well than everything can be reused
20:05<Supercheese>yep :D
20:06<Supercheese>Hmm, how to fix sprite order issues... code the pipeline stations as groundtiles?
20:07*Supercheese does not know how to do that, however
20:07<Sleepie>me too
20:08<Sleepie>from what I know stations are more difficult than other stuff
20:08<Sleepie>ideally DWE will be enhanced with some adapters when LaDoncella pipe set has evolved
20:09<Supercheese>Crap, NML doesn't support stations
20:09<Sleepie>not yet
20:09<Sleepie>because its more complex
20:10<Sleepie>but I'm sure it will...
20:11<Supercheese>yeah, DWE has cool pipehouses, flame exhausts, underpasses, splits, etc
20:11<Supercheese>I guess you'd just need an adapter sprite that goes between the two pipe styles?
20:11<Sleepie>true many fancy eyecandy
20:11<Supercheese>the T-junction is especially neat
20:12<Supercheese>3 pipes fly over 3 pipes
20:12<Supercheese>well, 2 fly over, 1 just Ts in directly
20:12<Sleepie>I'm still try to catch up I'm back to TTD for about 3 weeks now
20:12<Sleepie>and was away for about 4 years or so
20:13<Sleepie>so lots of new stuff to explore and try out
20:16<Sleepie>well bedtime for me now, g' night
20:16<Supercheese>Vale, dormiture ;)
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20:25<Supercheese>Be back later, folks
20:25<Supercheese>Valete
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 24 00:00:29 2012