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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-07-26

---Logopened Thu Jul 26 00:00:32 2012
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03:08<Supercheese>Salve, excitate
03:10<__ln__>merry @340
03:11<NGC3982>how does that look to you?
03:12<telanus>good @340 to you
03:19<NGC3982>Supercheese: :(
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03:59<telanus>this is the place to get the lang file for translation?
03:59<telanus>for ogfx-trains
04:00<@Alberth>if there is no file for your language, yes, english is the simplest starting point
04:01<@Alberth>any other language file can also be used but they may be out of date w.r.t. the master lang file
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04:33<@Terkhen>good morning
04:34<@Alberth>moin Terkhen
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06:43*NGC3982 wants to play
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06:52<andythenorth>the var61 thing?
06:52<andythenorth>can't that be done by checking consist length and subtracting current vehicle's position?
06:52<andythenorth>to get an offset?
06:52<andythenorth>i.e. advanced varact 2, no special cases to trip up the unwary
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06:53<Eddi|zuHause>not even that complicated
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>query the related object and put in the consist length
06:53<+michi_cc>andythenorth: Of course it can, var 40 has the consist length, but apparently that is too special for mb.
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07:13<mb>I just wanted to avoid the introduction of a "special" parameter in m4nfo function veh_getinfo().
07:13<mb> And BTW, most of those counter arguments were moot ...
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07:16<@peter1138>^^^ o_O
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07:18<@peter1138>Do you watch often, mb?
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07:19<NGC3982>in the FIRS primary industries with more then one cargo; shipping cargo #1 doesnt affect cargo #2, right?
07:19<andythenorth>totally unconnected
07:19<NGC3982>ah, i see.
07:19<NGC3982>i understood this correctly, then.
07:19<andythenorth>there is no magic specific to FIRS that isn't explained
07:19<andythenorth>or that we don't at least try to explain
07:19*andythenorth hates magic
07:20<NGC3982>i read something about it, but i didnt really.. understand.
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07:21<andythenorth>stick some feedback in if you can find the bit that you read
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07:25<NGC3982>andythenorth: i noted that you are the head chicken in the pound of FIRS
07:25<NGC3982>i really like it. :)
07:33<andythenorth>good :)
07:33<andythenorth>that's what we go to school for
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know what you did in school, but we played Doppelkopf whenever we could...
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07:50<andythenorth>I mostly didn't go to school if I could avoid it
07:50<andythenorth>there was nothing useful there
07:50<TechnoBass>Is there anyone in here?
07:51<TechnoBass>So wats da topic????
07:51<Eddi|zuHause>"1.2.1 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only"
07:52<TechnoBass>Very Helpful Considering i dont know wat that means
07:54<@Alberth>you do know you are in #openttd, right?
07:54<TechnoBass>I hate the boring topic
07:54<TechnoBass>Umm yes
07:55<Zuu>Why care about the topic?
07:55<TechnoBass># Openttd What is it?
07:56<TechnoBass>It is the forum and am Do you have something with me?
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07:56<TechnoBass>Darn stupid translation
07:57<TechnoBass>Since I have been using the translation, I can not speak English I is I do not think that 's work
07:57<Eddi|zuHause>there is a german forum at
07:58<TechnoBass>What about translations cheating?
07:58<TechnoBass>What about inaccurate translations?
07:59<TechnoBass>is so difficult to communicate in a different language, when in fact make sense
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>which translaton?
07:59<Zuu>If you know german, frensh or any other language which an OpenTTD community, you might try there instead of using a translator?
07:59<TechnoBass>is so difficult to communicate in a different language, when in fact I do not make sense
08:00<Zuu>... which have an ... *
08:00<TechnoBass>I speak Japanese
08:00<Zuu>I would be surprised if there isn't a japanese forum. Although I have never been looking for one as I wouldn't understand a word. :-)
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>there is also a japanese community
08:01<TechnoBass>I avoid speaking Westerners
08:01<TechnoBass>I mean to avoid
08:02<TechnoBass>Dam ARRRRGGGGGHHH translation
08:02<TechnoBass>I mean to avoid
08:03<TechnoBass>It is not translated the right word why?
08:03<TechnoBass>Can you tell the link for my Japanese community?
08:03<Zuu>translators that don't use full information about the situation tend to pick the wrong word from time to time.
08:04<Zuu>Even a human translator is not perfect either.
08:04<TechnoBass>(^_^) True Ture
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>he's got batman ears! shoot him!
08:05<TechnoBass>Your language, it is translated from the right is me How can I see you talking about?
08:05<TechnoBass>I Mean Can You see The Language That I am being Translated From Right?
08:06<TechnoBass>Ek Like Pie ^ _ ^
08:06<TechnoBass>I liked Pie ^ _ ^
08:06<Zuu>I don't have a link. It is probably easiest found if searching in japanese on google, but I don't know japanese.
08:07<TechnoBass>ok Thank you
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08:46<Varazir>Is there a way to replace a tranin with the same model with out clone the train ?
08:46<NGC3982>im getting reports on a lot of people being unable to download files from the online content.
08:46<NGC3982>and something about lots of them being corrupt.
08:46<NGC3982>are all of the online-content from the same source?
08:47<NGC3982>(with "online-content" as the usable function in the game)
08:47<Varazir>Zuu: is it a consol command ?
08:47<Zuu>Varazir: Not as far as I know. It's the name of the feature. You enable it through the advanced settings.
08:48<Zuu>In adv. settings you set the money and age limit before it will kick in. It might also be possible to turn it off completely there.
08:50<Zuu>Some help about the settings can be found here:
08:56<Varazir>I would like to replace them every x year
08:58<Zuu>The feature exist to stop you from having to do tedious manual work, but still not allow you to get fresh (<2 year old) vehicles without having to do any work.
08:59<Zuu>Set the age limit to -12 months, and your vehicles will be replaced one year before it will complain about being old.
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09:05<Varazir>ok I can accept not auto just that I can replace the tranin with the same model and not have to replace them model x and back to the model y again
09:06<Varazir>if it's not going to happen I guess cloning is the next best thing
09:08<Varazir>I'll look at the adv option
09:08<+michi_cc>NGC3982: Using nightlies on windows?
09:09<+michi_cc>Then it might be unless it is a very recent nightly.
09:11<NGC3982>michi_cc: no, 1.2.1 stable.
09:12<NGC3982>for me, yes.
09:12<NGC3982>michi_cc: ill have a version check with the people that reported errors.
09:16<@Terkhen>Varazir: using advanced orders you can stop vehicles with a given age in a specific depot
09:17<@Terkhen>although you still need to clone new ones that should reduce micromanagement a bit
09:18<Varazir>Terkhen: ok
09:19<@Alberth>alternatively, spend your time expanding the network :)
09:33<andythenorth>if the config for a vehicle specifies which other vehicle replaces it...
09:33<andythenorth>I can automate all the model life crap
09:34<andythenorth>make the computer do the maths
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>that's exactly what i did in CETS
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>(because of the flexible sets within CETS, i occasionally specify multiple replacements, of which the earliest available is taken)
09:47<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause you did it in nml? or in python when processing config?
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>in python i calculate the difference in years, and in nml i use ternary operator for model_life = orig_model_life + vehicle1_available?-5:vehicle2_available?-2:0; or similar
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>where "available" means "is selected by parameter"
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>and where "orig_model_life" is calculated based on real stats for when the vehicle was removed from service
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10:02<Eddi|zuHause>since you don't have this dynamic approach of selecting or deselecting certain vehicles, you can do all in nml, i suppose
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>except for looking up the introduction year for the replacement vehicle
10:03<andythenorth>I can get that at compile time, python obj. ref
10:03<andythenorth>all is well :)
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>the formula would be "model_life = replacement.introduction - this.introduction + this.vehicle_life;"
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>early retire stays the same
10:08<andythenorth>isn't it nicer writing nml with python objects in scope? :)
10:08<andythenorth>for the vehicles...
10:09<@Alberth>merge nml and python into one language?
10:10<andythenorth>what would you suggest?
10:10<andythenorth>Alberth: more seriously...
10:10<andythenorth>hide the actual need to write nml?
10:10<andythenorth>just create props on python objs?
10:10<@Alberth>something like that
10:11<@Alberth>or even create NML ast directly from python, skipping the parsing
10:11<@Alberth>origin tracking will be a bitch probably :(
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11:09<@peter1138>well, this is bullshit
11:11<@Belugas>yes it is indeed
11:14<LordAro>depends what scope you are in
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11:22<@planetmaker>15:58 NGC3982: [14:46:37] im getting reports on a lot of people being unable to download files from the online content. <-- that would need to be much more specific, please
11:23<@planetmaker>reports like "stuff doesn't work" cannot be fixed
11:27<telanus>cool. ogfx-trains translated into afrikaans
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11:29<@Terkhen>telanus: translations for ogfx rv are welcome too :)
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11:29<@peter1138>This is _still_ bullshit.
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11:34<@peter1138>So I thought, hey, I could use this package and that package in the new version... so upgraded.
11:34<@peter1138>Two words: GNOME 3.
11:34<@peter1138>Utter useless heap of shite. Totally different from GNOME 2.
11:35<telanus>Terkhen: I'll do it tomorrow
11:36<@Alberth>peter1138: yep, I switched to KDE
11:36<@Terkhen>telanus: awesome, thanks :)
11:36*Terkhen switched to xfce
11:37<@peter1138>I can't believe they've made it so useless. So useless that changing fonts is an advanced setting that you need a special tool for...
11:39*Mazur also uses XFCE.
11:40<Mazur>Because of Gnome 3.
11:40<@Alberth>my biggest problem was the desktops moving when you close some application
11:40*telanus uses KDE
11:40<Mazur>My problem was not having my panels on top and botrtom anymore.
11:40*telanus also uses Windows
11:41<Mazur>And wit KDE it was having a kbuildsycoca stuck in a loop eating up one CPU.
11:41<@Alberth>does that have two panels?
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11:44<@peter1138>metacity --replace&&
11:44<@peter1138>Not quite Gnome 2 but so...
11:45<@peter1138>Gnome 3 is clearly designed for a use-case of not using a computer.
11:47<frosch123>i heard that kde4 is getting usable again
11:47<frosch123>though i did not hear it yet from someone trustworthy
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11:50<@peter1138>Right, I might trash this install and go back to Squeeze...
11:50<Matulla>Hi all can i get a Trainstation split in length so 2 trains are able to unload one behind the other
11:50<frosch123>haha, luckily i installed it only in a vm, so i have still squeeze
11:51<frosch123>Matulla: no, you can only build two stations, and add enough signalling between them
11:51<Matulla>or does parallel unload/load only work in paralles stations
11:54<@peter1138>Not a huge issue, this was an old lenny install and had a load of cruft in /usr/local. Installing Squeeze doesn't actually take long at all.
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12:49<NGC3982>any tip on neat big bus/truck grf's?
12:57<@Alberth>HEQS ?
13:11<@Terkhen>HEQS, new eGRVTS and OpenGFX RV... I don't know other updated options
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13:42<@peter1138>Okay, XFCE is more pleasant than GNOME 3...
13:42<@peter1138>... and I hated XFCE...
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r24436 /trunk/src/lang/korean.txt:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: korean - 7 changes by telk5093
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14:01<LordAro>peter1138: ^^
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14:06<andythenorth>the sky is falling! :o
14:06<andythenorth>wrong channel
14:06<__ln__>it's falling and you wouldn't have told us?!
14:06<@Alberth>he just did, didn't he?
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14:07<andythenorth>^ worried about the sky
14:07<andythenorth>probably building an underground shelter
14:09*andythenorth concludes that MB got the ship type balance very correct in New Ships
14:09<andythenorth>I have been trying to avoid aping that set, it exists already
14:09<andythenorth>but for gameplay purposes, the ship types are correct
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14:28<andythenorth>broken down vehicles
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14:28<andythenorth>vehicles-in-vehicles surely?
14:33<andythenorth>"But if you want roads itself producing cargos, I must be in the imaginary boundary of hell and heaven."
14:33<andythenorth>frosch123: ^
14:33<andythenorth>"everything is cargo" :D
14:34<andythenorth>should I be putting tinfoil on electrical things?
14:35<telanus>this would be a nightmare to implement , or so I think:
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14:36<andythenorth>it's just a cargo tile (ship) that can move
14:37<andythenorth>loading other cargo (trains)
14:37<andythenorth>containing cargo
14:37<andythenorth>which it can do because the ship itself contains a type of cargo called (station)
14:37<andythenorth>telanus: sadly I am trolling
14:38<andythenorth>frosch123 made a funny joke recently, and I have been unable to let it drop
14:38<andythenorth>despite it was only funny the first time
14:39<frosch123>the problem is that there are only 32 rail types
14:39<frosch123>err, cargos
14:39<frosch123>so the sum of all vehicle types, railtypes, industries and houses cannot go above 32
14:40<andythenorth>ach, but we need to extend that anyway
14:40<andythenorth>65536 enough?
14:40<frosch123>though if you use "autorail" as cargo you can at least build tracks in all directions instead of using 4 slots for a single railtype
14:51<andythenorth>no rear watertight doors?
14:51<andythenorth>following swell might not be pleasant
14:52<andythenorth>they probably know more about naval architecture than me though :P
14:52<frosch123>looks like the water can easily flow out of the back
14:52<frosch123>so, doesn't that make it unsinkable?
14:53<andythenorth>the upper deck might be an addition
14:54<blathijs>Aren't we looking at the front of the ship, here?
14:54<blathijs>(Also, it looks like half a ship to me...)
14:54<andythenorth>post upgrade
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15:07*Belugas enjoys DeathMole - Harpies, from Absent Gods & Creatures Foul
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15:55<andythenorth>boat names
15:55<frosch123>too fast for a boat
15:55<Rubidium>titanic ;)
15:56<Rubidium> <- I doubt it given those specs ;)
16:01<andythenorth>another floating cargo
16:01<NGC3982>great picture.
16:02<andythenorth>could make stations vehicles :P
16:02<andythenorth>could make vehicles vehicles
16:02<NGC3982>train ferry?
16:02<NGC3982>please, please.
16:02<NGC3982>make it, and make my day.
16:03<andythenorth>special rail type
16:04*andythenorth ponders
16:04<andythenorth>if the *train* sprites also showed ferry
16:04<andythenorth>when on a certain railtype
16:04<andythenorth>and cb36 for speed
16:04<andythenorth>yeah, it can be done
16:04<andythenorth>just need a special bridge, a special railtype, and some madness with sprites
16:05<NGC3982>to make a ferry for trains?
16:06*NGC3982 got a bit excited.
16:07<frosch123> <- andythenorth: you should add those to heqs
16:07<Supercheese>Wouldn't there be licensing issues?
16:07<Supercheese>or do Star Wars fan works have immunity?
16:09<Rubidium>only 70 years (+ the number of years that will be added to that in the future) after the death of the author the licensing issues will not be there
16:09<Supercheese>There are so many good isometric sprites of Star Wars stuff out there, I wonder if there's any way to make a grf from them and be able to distribute it without license migraines
16:09<Rubidium>given the way the US congress keeps extending those times for audio, I doubt it will ever be free of copyright and thus license free
16:10<Supercheese>claiming fair use doesn't seem to solve anything
16:12<Supercheese>Here's a trip: Google 3D Warehouse terms say: "You give other end users of the Services a perpetual, sublicensable, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute Existing Geolocated Models, Existing Non-Geolocated Models, New Models and related content and derivative works...
16:12<Supercheese>...thereof which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services."
16:12<Supercheese>and they have stuff like:
16:12<Rubidium>well... people upload stuff they're not supposed to upload there
16:13<Rubidium>and onto youtube, and onto OpenTTD's content service
16:13<Supercheese>So, derivative sprites of that model would be licensed... how?
16:15<andythenorth>the design is probably distinctive enough to be protected in various ways
16:15<andythenorth>all your base belong to lucas
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17:43<@Terkhen>good night
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 27 00:00:33 2012