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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-07-29

---Logopened Sun Jul 29 00:00:38 2012
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01:08<andythenorth>bongiorno
01:09<Supercheese>e ti
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01:19<telanus>hellllo
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02:04<andythenorth>if else blocks like this http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1604/
02:04<andythenorth>I always find them a bit clunky
02:04<andythenorth>but then I leave them in place because they're so easily read
02:11<Eddi|zuHause>render = lambda self: templates.get(self.custom_template, templates['ship_template.pynml'])(vehicle = self)
02:13<andythenorth>yeah
02:13<andythenorth>I had something like that
02:14<andythenorth>I deleted it as less readable
02:14<andythenorth>but I'm not convinced
02:14*andythenorth tends to get distracted by meta issues when coding :P
02:17<andythenorth> template = templates[('ship_template.pynml', self.custom_template)[self.custom_template is not None]]
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02:34<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn'T look right
02:36<Eddi|zuHause>use "self.custom_template or 'ship_template.pynml'"
02:39<Eddi|zuHause>"a or b" is an abbreviation for "a if a is something non-0 else b"
02:40<Eddi|zuHause>so "template = templates[self.custom_template or 'ship_template.pynml']"
02:40<Eddi|zuHause>with the added side effect that it handles also empty strings and such
02:43<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: thanks, amended
02:43<andythenorth>pretty clean
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03:21<andythenorth>hmm
03:21<andythenorth>python's boolean 'and' boggles my brain
03:21<andythenorth>I kind of get it
03:22<andythenorth>had to read it four times :P
03:22<andythenorth>http://docs.python.org/release/2.5.2/lib/boolean.html
03:24<Eddi|zuHause>yes. "false" is different from "False"
03:34<andythenorth>version number shenanigans
03:34<andythenorth>FISH current release is 0.9.2
03:35<andythenorth>trunk is now quite different, the set has changed in multiple ways
03:35<andythenorth>so I'm thinking of going to 2.0.0, skipping 1.0.0
03:35<andythenorth>is that silly?
03:35<andythenorth>(not really anything to do with nfo vs. nml, that's just implementation)
03:40<Eddi|zuHause>seriously... what's the significance?
03:40<Eddi|zuHause>might as well go 0.10
03:41<Eddi|zuHause>or "FISH 2" version 0.1
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03:47<andythenorth>last option is best
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03:53<andythenorth>feature request
03:54<andythenorth>the toddler wants to have blue buses and yellow buses and pink buses
03:54<andythenorth>and I can't be bothered to newgrf it :P
03:54<V453000>im just counting versions as +1 to the latest :) no fuss
03:54<andythenorth>(he wants to set colour per vehicle, and be able to change it)
03:54<V453000>nuts has that for trainz :p
03:55<andythenorth>if we had a colour cycle var, we could abuse it for other purposes
03:55<andythenorth>it would find interesting uses
03:55<V453000>:D
03:55<V453000>I just have various sprites for it
03:55<andythenorth>I know that looks like wrong thinking, but I suspect it's a variant of 'worse is better'
03:56<V453000>flickering rainbow vehicles?
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04:29<andythenorth>if I make it FISH 2, does it need a new banananaas entry? :P
04:30<V453000>if there would be a reason to use FISH1 :D
04:30<V453000>then I would say yes
04:30<andythenorth>can't think of any
04:31<V453000>idk, just update fish1 then I think
04:31<andythenorth>seems easiest
04:37<@Terkhen>good morning
04:37<andythenorth>hi Terkhen
04:45<andythenorth>Terkhen: want to help test FISH 2? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3161/fish-nml-test.zip
04:45<andythenorth>the log tugs are missing, think all other ships are there
04:45<andythenorth>I haven't turned off default ships yet either
04:45<andythenorth>or reset the water construction costs
04:46<andythenorth>things like costs might be quite wrong in some places :P
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04:55<@Terkhen>sure, I'll test it later :)
04:55<@Terkhen>OpenTTD nightly or 1.2.1?
04:55<andythenorth>probly works with stable
04:56<andythenorth>I never use stable, so not sure ;)
05:02<andythenorth>hmm
05:02<andythenorth>are there are any escapes that let me dump a block of nfo into an nml file?
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05:02<Wolf01>hello o/
05:03<andythenorth>hmm
05:03<andythenorth>do nml and nfo use same chars for comments? :P
05:04<andythenorth>shame :P
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05:23<andythenorth>V453000: I do like you sprite style :D
05:23<andythenorth>*your
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05:36<andythenorth>should ships reduce run cost whilst docked?
05:37<@Terkhen>andythenorth: ok, I'll take a note to test it :)
05:37<andythenorth>thanks
05:49<petern_>andythenorth, not greatly. that's one of the busiest times for staff
05:50<@Yexo>good morning
05:52-!-Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e81f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
06:04<@Terkhen>hi Yexo :)
06:04*andythenorth doesn't adjust running costs whilst docked in that case
06:05<andythenorth>hi Yexo
06:12-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5f81.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
06:13<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/6jvHT.png
06:13<NGC3982>V453000: it works, but slowly.
06:13<NGC3982>as i thought, it's a maglev thing.
06:14<NGC3982>although, 792 tonnes produced and maximum production reached?
06:18<andythenorth>NGC3982: what FIRS version?
06:20<NGC3982>andythenorth: 0.7.2
06:20<andythenorth>NGC3982: production amounts probably got changed
06:21<NGC3982>ah, i see.
06:21<andythenorth>you should be safe to update to 0.7.5
06:21<NGC3982>isnt that process automagic these days?
06:21*NGC3982 knows how andy loves magic.
06:21<andythenorth>hmm
06:22<andythenorth>actually we broke savegames at 0.7.3
06:22<andythenorth>sorry
06:22<andythenorth>no upgrade for you ;)
06:22<@Yexo>NGC3982: updating newgrfs is never done automatically for existing savegames
06:23<NGC3982>http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mmBw3uzPnJI/TA94kZlvlMI/AAAAAAABU1c/0PC3xl8Gjq0/s1600/sad_keanu_reeves_meme_20.jpg
06:23<NGC3982>Yexo: it's not a savegame. i started yesterday.
06:25<@Yexo>in that case just open the online content and click update
06:32<NGC3982>will do. :)
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07:19<@Terkhen>which IAs use ships?
07:20<frosch123>i would guess for nocab
07:20<frosch123>isn't there a comparison table on the wiki?
07:20<frosch123>which lists such stuff
07:20<@Terkhen>oh, ok, thanks :)
07:21<frosch123>nocab, otvi, terron and trans :)
07:24<petern_>Anyone familiar with expect scripts?
07:24<petern_>Can I hide output from the spawned program?
07:26<@Terkhen>ok :)
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07:30<andythenorth>anyone want to contribute to FISH?
07:30<andythenorth>need a parameter (bool) that resets various water costs
07:31*andythenorth is deep in converting log tug sprite chains :P
07:32<andythenorth>nfo for it water costs param is here: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/entry/sprites/nfo/header.pnfo
07:34<andythenorth>- it
07:34*andythenorth seems to get ever more illiterate :P
07:41<@Yexo>rewrite it in nml :p
07:43<andythenorth>that's my request :)
07:43<andythenorth>the nfo works
07:43<andythenorth>Yexo you probably missed that I'm converting FISH to nml :)
07:43<@Yexo>yes, I missed that
07:43<@Yexo>just got back from a 3 weeks holiday
07:44<andythenorth>nearly finished it
07:44<andythenorth>took about 3 weeks :P
07:44<petern_>Rewrite it in GRFEdit
07:45<petern_>Or was that GRFMaker... I can never remember...
07:45<andythenorth>yeah
07:45<andythenorth>those
07:45<andythenorth>what does an nml spriteset look like?
07:45<petern_>Fred
07:45<andythenorth>this page is somewhat missing a canonical example http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Spriteset
07:45<@Yexo>"list of realsprites" is a link
07:45<andythenorth>oh that works
07:46<andythenorth>[can't use a template here]
07:46<andythenorth>[otherwise I wouldn't be asking :P ]
07:46<@Yexo>http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial has an example
07:48<@Terkhen>andythenorth: the new ships and their buy menu sprite look nice :D
07:51-!-KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-83-136.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
07:51<andythenorth>thanks
07:52<andythenorth>shame that Eddi|zuHause has a patch that makes my work pointless :P
07:52<Eddi|zuHause>why has nobody cleaned it up and committed it yet? :)
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08:39*andythenorth wonders now if nmlc is faster than nmlc->grfcodec
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>i doubt it
08:44<andythenorth>FISH is getting slow to build
08:45<andythenorth>12s
08:45<andythenorth>boring :P
08:48<andythenorth>~55s for nml
08:48<andythenorth>second pass is much faster
08:48<andythenorth>~10s once cached
08:48<@Yexo>second pass is the more important one
08:48<@Yexo>that's the speed you'll most often see while developing
08:49*andythenorth switches to building with nmlc
08:51<andythenorth>faster = better :)
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08:53<FLHerne>andythenorth: Have you bodged a way to make those log tugs articulate yet? :P
08:54<andythenorth>has someone extended the newgrf spec? :o
08:55<FLHerne>Unlikely :-(
08:55<FLHerne>But if you were considering roads as railtypes, there must be some nasty hack you could make :P
08:56<andythenorth>implement ship routes as railtypes
08:56<andythenorth>simples
08:57<FLHerne>*facepalm*
08:58<andythenorth>I don't see the problem
09:00*NGC3982 poops
09:01<Pinkbeast>There's only 16 railtypes and we want them all for rails
09:01<frosch123>just make a searchable railtype dropdown
09:01<frosch123>there is for sure no more than than selecting the right railtype from a list of 1000
09:02<frosch123>*no more fun than
09:02<Pinkbeast>That's not the issue; the issue is that each extra bit of railtype adds a bit per map tile.
09:02<andythenorth>michi_cc: does autorefit evaluate capacity anyway?
09:02<andythenorth>*in any way
09:02*andythenorth is wondering if it needs turned on or off when capacity is refittable
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09:04<frosch123>Pinkbeast: i think it was a mistake to limit railtypes to 16. for some reason this makes grf developers want to fill all of them with pointless types. if there would be a hillarious limit like 64k, they might have considred to only add useful types
09:05<frosch123>same for cargso
09:05<andythenorth>+1
09:05<andythenorth>-1
09:05<frosch123>every industry set wants to use all 32 slots for some reason
09:05<andythenorth>yarp
09:05<andythenorth>the game is to find 32 useful cargos
09:05<frosch123>if the limit would be 64k, they might have used less :p
09:05<andythenorth>and then string them together with 3 in / 2 out at industries
09:05<andythenorth>without the limit, FIRS would have 50 or so cargos by now I think
09:06<andythenorth>and I would hate it even more
09:06<andythenorth>limits enforce sub-editing :P
09:06<Pinkbeast>frosch: I think one can easily exceed 16; and I'd rather the game had 10 or 12 or 16 bits of railtype and sod the memory footprints. But the developers appear to disagree.
09:08<Pinkbeast>(After all, 16 bits of railtype on a 1024^2 map is, er, 128Kb.)
09:08<frosch123>yeah, that would limit the railtypes only by usabiilty, when you have to scroll the dropdown over 5 screenpages to find the right railtype :p
09:08<Pinkbeast>As you said, though, that's hardly an unconquerable UI issue. :-)
09:08<+michi_cc>Pinkbeast: Just what would you need so many railtypes for?
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>i could have filled that rather easily :)
09:09<Pinkbeast>2 bits of gauge x 2 bits of electrification scheme x 2 bits of speed x 2 bits of axle loading... well, I'm up to 8 without even thinking about it.
09:09*andythenorth has 8 bits of confusion
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>that won't even fit
09:09<andythenorth>ugh
09:10<andythenorth>too many railtypes :P
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>3 electrification and 3 axle load
09:10<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: riddle of the day: how to define operator ^ and * so that 16 bits on 1024^2 map result in 128Kb
09:11<Pinkbeast>Is there a comedy maths error here?
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: 1024^2 is already 1M, so 2 bytes make that 2MB
09:12<andythenorth>riddle of the day (2): log tug does 11mph loaded, 20mph unloaded. Should it go faster if the load is 80t versus 400t?
09:12<Pinkbeast>Yeah, my bad, brain fart. I still don't think it's a prohibitive quantity, though.
09:12<frosch123>Pinkbeast: compare 2MB with 512MB for 32bpp extra zoom
09:12*andythenorth thinks loaded speed is a factor of safety, and not losing logs
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: it's not. the question is how to do it "properly" to guard for all (sane) future demands of "more map bits"
09:13<Pinkbeast>Acceleration? If ships had an acceleration model.
09:13*andythenorth solves it
09:14<andythenorth>the issue was an exploit, where a 400t ship with 50% load factor would go faster than equivalent 240t ship
09:14<andythenorth>solve
09:14<andythenorth>d
09:14<Pinkbeast>Eddi: mm, but "perfect" can be the enemy of "good enough" - and the existing bits of railtype are clearly (IMAO) too few.
09:18<andythenorth>autorefit appears to be ignoring subtype currently
09:18<andythenorth>[same cargo]
09:18<frosch123>it's the same as for autorenew and clone
09:18<frosch123>it tries to find one with the same text
09:18<andythenorth>maybe I just disable autorefit for this ship
09:19<andythenorth>solved
09:22<frosch123>so the log tug does not work for steel logs?
09:23<frosch123>(what is it refittable to at all?)
09:23<andythenorth>wood!
09:23<andythenorth>80t / 240t / 400t
09:23*andythenorth proposes a slider for capacity :P
09:24<frosch123>sounds like those orders which are always requested
09:24<frosch123>"load up to 50%" or so
09:25<andythenorth>I worked around that :P
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09:41<andythenorth>FISH mostly now converted
09:41<andythenorth>:P
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09:44<andythenorth>does nml support parameters?
09:44*andythenorth is trolling
09:51*FLHerne is rather confused by OTTD's RAM usage priorities
09:52*andythenorth was confused because a14 stuff is cached
09:52<andythenorth>but that's solved :P
09:53<FLHerne>32bpp+EZ seems to dwarf all the other 'that would be too memory-hungry' suggestions :P
09:55<Pinkbeast>In fairness, if you're on a steam-powered computer, no-one's making you use 32bpp
09:56<Pinkbeast>But if eg railtypes become 16-bit that's affecting everyone.
09:56-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:56<andythenorth>so in nml, how do I connect my a14 option (bool) to a basecost adjustment?
09:56<@Yexo>if (option_name) { do_basecost_adjustment; } ?
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09:57<@Yexo>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Setting_base_costs documents basecost adjustments, just wrap that in an if-block
09:57<andythenorth>ta
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: basecost = option?0:-2;
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>(or whatever)
09:58<@Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: that also changes the basecost when the option is turned of
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>ah. right
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10:19<petern_>aw man
10:19<petern_>just got a gas leak :S
10:19<petern_>trying to fix a load of wobbly floorboards
10:19<petern_>oh well
10:20<petern_>that'll cost money to fix :p
10:20<andythenorth>nail through pipe?
10:21<petern_>screw
10:21<petern_>and
10:21<andythenorth>oops :o
10:21<petern_>it was the last screw
10:21<andythenorth>standard
10:21<petern_>the rest of the floor is all fixed now
10:21<petern_>except
10:22<petern_>it'll have to come up to fix the pipe
10:22*andythenorth has done that with a water pipe in a kitchen refit
10:22<petern_>water pipe is probably messier
10:22<petern_>unless you don't notice
10:22<petern_>and then the gas pipe is, erm, very bad
10:22<andythenorth>didn't noticed for months
10:22<petern_>oops
10:22<andythenorth>-d
10:22<petern_>bad
10:22<petern_>fortunately i can smell
10:22<andythenorth>how handy
10:22<petern_>and, infact, hear
10:23<andythenorth>'boom' is never very good
10:23<petern_>no, that would've been pretty bad
10:23*andythenorth wonders if anyone will find the joke in FISH
10:24-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67CAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:24<petern_>my missus says
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10:24<petern_>should be turn everything off
10:24<petern_>uh, ... bad idea :)
10:24<petern_>*we
10:25<andythenorth>I'd be thinking of turning the gas off maybe
10:25<andythenorth>probably not the rest :P
10:25<petern_>yes quite
10:25<petern_>i did
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10:25<andythenorth>if you turn the rest off, no interwebs
10:25<petern_>turning things off is what causes sparks...
10:26<petern_>maybe if there's a motor nearby it
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10:27<andythenorth>meh
10:27<andythenorth>how much do I care about breaking people's savegames?
10:27<FLHerne>Lots! :P
10:28<andythenorth>or not at all :P
10:28<@Terkhen>there are probably not many people playing FISH nightlies
10:29<FLHerne>Terkhen: I am :P
10:29<@Terkhen>hurry up and finish your game then
10:30<@Terkhen>:)
10:30<andythenorth>the issue is that in December 2010, I 'removed' some unwanted ships by setting them to 'no climate'
10:30<andythenorth>I can't be bothered to find them and add them to the nml conversion
10:31<petern_>heh
10:31<andythenorth>and I don't want to bump FISH because it's compatible in all other ways afaik
10:32<@Terkhen>keep those until the end of times :D
10:34-!-Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e81f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
10:34<andythenorth>leaving this broken will 'just' result in some invalid vehicles
10:34<andythenorth>:P
10:35<petern_>and another thing
10:35<petern_>why are modern door hinges so tiny?
10:36<andythenorth>vindictiveness
10:36<FLHerne>andythenorth: Do many people still have actively-used savegames (which they might want to update FISH in) from 2010?
10:36<andythenorth>dunno
10:36<andythenorth>going to find out by releasing it
10:36<andythenorth>there's a key for every lock :P
10:38<andythenorth>I reckon that's FISH done for now
10:38<andythenorth>now I have to figure out makefiles again :(
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12:29<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r24441 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): -Update: Version number to 1.3 in some more files.
12:31<andythenorth>lo
12:32<andythenorth>is petern_ still alive?
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12:40<Rawh>whois him and look at his idle time?
12:44<Sacro>hmm
12:44<Sacro>did that work
12:44<Sacro>yes :d
12:44<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r24442 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Split some members of Vehicle into a new class BaseConsist.
12:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r24443 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Move Vehicle::name to BaseConsist.
12:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r24444 /trunk/src/ (order_backup.cpp order_backup.h saveload/order_sl.cpp): -Codechange: Base OrderBackup on BaseConsist.
12:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r24445 /trunk/src/saveload/order_sl.cpp: -Fix: Do not load order backups when loading a server-saved game in single player.
12:47<petern_>andythenorth, yes
12:48<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r24446 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Add [FS#5199]: Store more consist properties in order backups.
12:48<andythenorth>oh spiffing
12:49<petern_>Jolly good show ol' chap!
12:49<andythenorth>well, can't stand around gassing all day, what?
12:49<petern_>Quite so.
12:50*andythenorth toddles off to the club
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r24447 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt latvian.txt):
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: latvian - 6 changes by Parastais
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14:08<andythenorth>so...who wants to translate FISH 2? :D
14:09<andythenorth>I have Afrikaans already
14:09<andythenorth>Terkhen: ^
14:09<andythenorth>planetmaker: ^
14:09<andythenorth>:)
14:12<Hirundo>andythenorth: Need dutch?
14:12<andythenorth>yarp
14:12<andythenorth>hmm I should add a translation comment
14:15<andythenorth>done
14:15<andythenorth>no point translating generated code ;P
14:16<andythenorth>bah
14:16<andythenorth>I have the nfo makefile for FISH
14:16<andythenorth>(logically, as it was built for nfo, and still is by the makefile)
14:19<petern_>bah, stty -echo doesn't do what i want it to do :S
14:19<andythenorth>it's keeping company with my makefile in that case
14:23<@Terkhen>andythenorth: I'll translate it now :)
14:23<andythenorth>:)
14:24<@Terkhen>pylng?
14:24<andythenorth>yup
14:24<andythenorth>the .lng files are generated from that
14:25<andythenorth>there's nothing much scary in it though :)
14:29<frosch123>Hirundo: would your start from scratch? or base it on afrikaans? :)
14:33<Hirundo>I'm starting from scratch :-)
14:35<@Terkhen>andythenorth: what does "sea going" means? a ship that will go far from the coast?
14:37<andythenorth>capable of travelling on sea
14:37<andythenorth>typically it will have things like: higher freeboard (sides), and locking doors / hatches etc
14:37<@Terkhen>ok, let's see how I can translate that :P
14:37<andythenorth>'sea capable' ?
14:38<frosch123>"Hochseetauglich"
14:38<andythenorth>can't find you a convenient wiki page for reference :P
14:38<frosch123>Terkhen: "de alta mar"
14:39<frosch123>says my dictionary
14:40<@Terkhen>found it, "de altura" :P
14:40<@Terkhen>I remember hearing it somewhen, but I did not know it meant that
14:41<@Terkhen>usually we don't have words for things as specific as this one
14:42<frosch123>http://dict.leo.org/esde?lp=esde&lang=de&searchLoc=0&searchLocRelinked=1&search=Hochseeschiff&trestr=0x801 http://dict.leo.org/esde?lp=esde&lang=de&searchLoc=0&searchLocRelinked=1&search=hochseet%C3%BCchtig&trestr=0x8004 <- a nomen and an adjective
14:43<frosch123>Terkhen: spain should have the history for ship terms, shouldn't it?
14:44<@Terkhen>I don't know many, but maybe it is just because I'm not very knowledgeable about nautic stuff
14:47<Hirundo>I used the dutch equivalent of 'sea worthy' for 'sea going'
14:51<andythenorth>Hirundo: Terkhen frosch123 I gave you FISH commit rights
14:51<andythenorth>saves administration for translations ;)
14:52<andythenorth>I *think* the makefile now works for the nml conversion too
14:52<Hirundo>andythenorth: The 'vehicle ferry' is used for transporting vehicles or people?
14:52<andythenorth>both
14:52<andythenorth>refits all cargos
14:52<andythenorth>has vehicles decks and passenger cabins
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15:27<andythenorth>should the buy menu gain an 'extra info' progressive disclosure thingy?
15:27<andythenorth>cargo decay rate, loading speed
15:27<andythenorth>autorefit support
15:28<andythenorth>I can put it in with the text cb, but it gets big and nasty
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>i was thinking about total vehicle length (in tiles)
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>which needs some awkward conversion function
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>i already have railtype and axle scheme in there
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>where axle scheme is purely cosmetic
16:02<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r24448 /trunk/src/core/smallvec_type.hpp: -Fix [FS#5255]: Copy constructor and assignment operator cannot be implicit template specialisations. (adf88)
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16:26*Terkhen likes translating andy's NewGRFs
16:26<@Terkhen>I learn a lot of words :P
16:26<andythenorth>:)
16:27<andythenorth>I learn them from wikipedia :P
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16:28<frosch123>i thought you are making them up
16:29*Terkhen searches them on wikipedia and clicks on "spanish"
16:30<frosch123>is there a wikipedia based translator bot?
16:31<__ln__>i hope not
16:31<@Terkhen>frosch123: no, but for some pages, you can check the same page in a different langue
16:31<@Terkhen>language*
16:31<@Terkhen>it is useful when you are looking for complicated terms :P
16:32<frosch123>yeah, i am doing the same
16:32<frosch123>but i am wondering whether some online translator would generate its dictionary using wikipedia
16:32<Rubidium>and I'm doing something else ;)
16:33*andythenorth doesn't know what cycloidal is either
16:34<andythenorth>:P
16:34*andythenorth provides support for translating vehicle names
16:39<andythenorth>ho ho
16:39<andythenorth>10 bazillion lang warnings from nml :P
16:40<andythenorth>I have made it angry by adding new strings :P
16:40<NGC3982>christ
16:40<NGC3982>took a three hour walk today
16:41<@Terkhen>andythenorth: what is the difference between a "gas turbine" and a "maritime gas turbine"?
16:41<frosch123>did you get lost?
16:41<NGC3982>no
16:41<andythenorth>Terkhen: I have no idea :)
16:41<andythenorth>one sits on the outside of a hovercraft and is weatherproof I guess
16:41<@Terkhen>ok, I'll just translate it verbatim :P
16:42<andythenorth>the other sits inside a ship...and probably isn't :P
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16:48<Blaster>What newgfxs improve city building variety and allow me to build, perhaps, simcity-like cities
16:49<@Terkhen>hi Blaster , depends on what you mean with "simcity-like cities"
16:49<andythenorth>ho
16:49*andythenorth crashed ottd
16:49<Blaster>Well, firstly, more building variety
16:49<andythenorth>oh and again :P
16:49<@Terkhen>andythenorth: I'm lazy to open my VM and commit the translation, can you commit it instead? :P
16:49<andythenorth>Terkhen: yup :)
16:49<Blaster>I have only seen mods that replace the current buildings, which means there is still the same number of different buildigns
16:49<andythenorth>right now I've done something with strings that crashes ottd :P
16:50<@Terkhen>andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1611/ <--- thanks :D
16:51<@Terkhen>Blaster: well, there are not many house sets... I only know about swedish houses and TAI, and I don't know how much development the latter saw
16:51<Blaster>More than just houses preferably
16:51<@Terkhen>what do you mean?
16:51<FLHerne>TTRS is quite nice, UK TownSet improving to some extent
16:52<Blaster>Maybe multiple ones at the same time would work?
16:52<FLHerne>Both have huge towerblocks and such now
16:52<@Terkhen>Blaster: probably not, unless they are made to be compatible
16:52<frosch123>multiple housesets should work fine
16:53*FLHerne finds completely incompatible answers confusing :P
16:53*andythenorth is baffled why this crashes :P
16:53<frosch123>personally i consider ttrs quite ugly though
16:53<Blaster>Secondly, is there anything that would add larger/wider/highertraffic roads?
16:53<Blaster>Like motorways
16:53<NGC3982>motorways <3.
16:54<@Terkhen>Blaster: there is IIRC a newgrf which adds eyecandy motorways, but they still work like the normal roads (OpenTTD only has those)
16:54<andythenorth>crash log: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1612/
16:54*NGC3982 googles for it.
16:54<andythenorth>I know it's a bad grf string, but I have 'wtf' about which
16:55<Blaster>That newgrf will be fine since default roads already have excessive capacity
16:55<NGC3982>cocoa! \o/
16:55<frosch123>andythenorth: contains no useful info
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16:56<frosch123>maybe plurals or genders?
16:56<frosch123>something whcih references other string parts
16:56<frosch123>andythenorth: just upload the grf to fs
16:56<Blaster>What is the newgrf for eyecandy motorways?
16:56<andythenorth>ach, I think I know what it is
16:57<FLHerne>Blaster/GC398: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=58107 ?
16:57<FLHerne>I think there might have been another one, too :-)
16:58<andythenorth>I'm relying on returning split('[')[0] on strings that don't contain '['
16:58<Blaster>yeah that looks good
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16:59<andythenorth>hmm
16:59<andythenorth>not that :(
16:59<NGC3982>FLHerne: neat.
16:59<Blaster>And I am still using 1.1.5 ...
16:59<Blaster>Does 1.2 add any new features or is it just bugfixing?
17:00<frosch123>most modern grfs will only work with 1.2
17:01<frosch123>http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD_1.2.0 <- for the rest
17:01<Blaster>River generation on creation of map
17:01<Blaster>YUS
17:01*Blaster is happy now
17:01<andythenorth>ha
17:01<andythenorth>fixed
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17:05<NGC3982>http://www.wimp.com/saltmine/
17:05<NGC3982>speaking of maglev..
17:07*andythenorth is duck tape coding
17:07<andythenorth>seems to work
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17:09<andythenorth>python is witty
17:09<andythenorth>this works: type_suffix = self.title.split('[')[1].split(']')[0]
17:09<andythenorth>despite being quite silly to read
17:10<Blaster>Oh
17:11<Blaster>Those motorways are entirely non-functional
17:11<frosch123>andythenorth: only works as long as you do not nest [ ]
17:11<Blaster>Don't even work like normal roads
17:11<andythenorth>yeah, I won't do that
17:11<frosch123>Blaster: i think you have to build the stuf next to normal roads
17:11<andythenorth>this is a one-shot kind of effort I'm writing here
17:11<andythenorth>anything complicated, it will break :P
17:13<Blaster>Oh, I see
17:13<Blaster>Its supposed to be used with the normal roads
17:15<@Terkhen>Blaster: yes, as I mentioned it is only eyecandy
17:17<Blaster>the readme said the roads were unusable and I didn't realise the pieces overlayed the regular roads as opposed to being designed to replace them
17:20<andythenorth>FISH supports translatable names now (the type suffix)
17:20<andythenorth>Hirundo: ^
17:21<andythenorth>names can be seen here if interested http://www.tt-foundry.com/sets/FISH/list_all_vehicles
17:21*andythenorth -> bed
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17:23<Wolf01>'night
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17:25<frosch123>night
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17:28<__ln__>http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2012/07/25/nl-u-boat-labrador-discovery-725.html
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17:42<NataS>pretty cool
17:43<FLHerne>But what was it doing up there!? :0
17:43<NataS>doing some sort of black ops mission
17:43<NataS>or maybe it's got nazi zombies on it
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17:52<__ln__>that's an inappropriate comment
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18:33<@Terkhen>good night
18:33*Illegal_Alien CUDDLES Terkhen
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23:48<TheStranger>gamers watch this you won't regret it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtHtwgMZlSQ&feature=plcp
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 30 00:00:40 2012