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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-08-14

---Logopened Tue Aug 14 00:00:22 2012
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04:54<@Terkhen>good morning
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06:54<drac_boy>how're you bentrein?
06:54<BenTrein>I'm hungry, kinda.
06:55<drac_boy>doing ok here
06:55<BenTrein>Where's 'here' for you? For me it's Thailand, and it's approaching 18:00. Hence the slight hunger. :D
06:57<drac_boy>oh..canada :)
06:57<drac_boy>going reheat some breakfast in about a hour
06:57<BenTrein>:) Enjoy
06:58<drac_boy>is 'trein' supposed to be 'train'?
06:59<BenTrein>:) Nope. I'm Ben Trein as in or - Trein is the Dutch word for Train, that's true, but it also happens to be my writers name.
06:59<BenTrein>I also write sometimes at
07:00<drac_boy>oh heh, I had to ask after all :)
07:00<BenTrein>It's not an uncommon question. No offense taken. Forgive me for the elaborate explanation. I write after all. :D
07:02<drac_boy>well ben is a common name over here
07:03<BenTrein>I know few countries where it's not. Even in Thailand it is; though it's either Benz or a girl's name.
07:04<drac_boy>benz? for a moment I was almost thinking mercedes-benz heh heh
07:04<BenTrein>Yeah, you're right. That's the one.
07:05<BenTrein>You have the weirdest names here.
07:05<__ln__>Mercedes Benz is a girl's name.
07:05<BenTrein>Mercedes is, Benz is a boy's name in Thailand.
07:05<BenTrein>A common girl's name here is Porn, though it has a very different meaning than you think. :)
07:06<BenTrein>However, to make their kid's name western friendly, they added star to it, resulting in "Hi, my name is Pornstar."
07:13<drac_boy>you still into trains nevertheless BenTrein?
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07:59<BenTrein>Yes, drac_boy, love trains. :D Sory for the late reply. My computer got hijacked by my son.
08:07<drac_boy>heh .. shared computer?
08:07<drac_boy>what kind of trains in general then? :)
08:08<BenTrein>Those that run on tracks. :P
08:09<drac_boy>so anything goes..including railbuses? :)
08:09<BenTrein>That's not called a train, so it's not a train. :D Nah, I'm not completely crazy about trains. It's my favourite mode of public transport though. Especially long distance.
08:10<drac_boy>heh :)
08:19<drac_boy>sleeper train or not that long distance? :)
08:30<drac_boy>anyway need to go for now :-s
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09:07<NGC3982>Im a bit new to this, but;
09:08<NGC3982>Im using my own host ( to host an openttd server. If i start several servers on the same host, what happends when users connect?
09:08<NGC3982>Will they get all the servers at once?
09:13<TrueBrain>how would that work? :)
09:13<TrueBrain>in reality, you won't be able to start several servers on the same host and port, the second one will simply refuse to start (as server) with: port already in use
09:14<TrueBrain>ofc you can use different ports
09:18<NGC3982>And if i do?
09:19<TrueBrain>if you do what?
09:19<NGC3982>If i start two dedicated server clients on separate ports, will the client find both servers when adding the host?
09:19<TrueBrain>ofc not
09:19<TrueBrain>when they add the host, with append the default port
09:20<NGC3982>Oh, yes indeed.
09:20<TrueBrain>typing is hard :D
09:21<TrueBrain>(this holds for any application btw, unrelated to OpenTTD)
09:21<NGC3982>But basicly, i could in theory make server #1 at and server #2 at
09:22<TrueBrain>not only in theory
09:22<NGC3982>Is this jeopardy or what?
09:22*NGC3982 will try when he gets home.
09:23<TrueBrain>I often wonder why people say: "I could in theory"; it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do it in theory, I mean ... ;)
09:23<TrueBrain>btw, if you advertise to the masterserver, users can just double click one of the servers and connect to that server
09:23<TrueBrain>without ever needing to know ports etc :)
09:24<NGC3982>TrueBrain: I have never used advertised servers. Maybe it's time..
09:24<TrueBrain>it makes is easier for users
09:24<TrueBrain>they can just look it up in a list, instead of knowing name:port
09:25<NGC3982>The thing is, my server is still a "server" (on a Windows OS'd HTPC computer). Im not really in the mood on trying to advertise something that's not really that ninja-turtles stable..)
09:25<NGC3982>TrueBrain: oh.
09:25<TrueBrain>then how do you expect to get players? :D
09:25<NGC3982>All my games are private, and i still have 3-10 players a week
09:25<NGC3982>Wich is enough.
09:26<TrueBrain>can I then suggest 1 server?
09:26<TrueBrain>we already have too many servers versus clients :P
09:26<NGC3982>Well sure.
09:26<NGC3982>It's merely an experiment.
09:27<TrueBrain>time to change your password now
09:27<NGC3982>It was actually an insult.
09:30<TrueBrain>your password is an insult?! :P
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10:02<NGC3982>Belugas: Good afternoon
10:07<@Belugas>good morning to you too :)
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10:44<BenTrein>Good day Belugas
10:45*andythenorth ponders
10:59<@Belugas>good day, BenTrein :) good international salute ;)
10:59<andythenorth>fs 5270
11:12<TrueBrain>why do you ponder about that? :)
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11:12<drush>hello everyone
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11:33<andythenorth>TrueBrain: is fs 5270 a valid patch? If it's accepted, richyb might do more patches. And he sits in an office full of macs
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11:34<andythenorth>maybe I can bribe him to close some OS X bugs
11:34<andythenorth>or not :P
11:35<TrueBrain>andythenorth: problem with these kinds of patches, they are 'void'; those who have this issue, already know the solution, those who don't, don't care ;) But I see nothing wrong with applying it
11:35<TrueBrain>that said, in all cases, slap him enough to do OSX fixes
11:35<TrueBrain>like many many software, we need it badly
11:35<andythenorth>he doesn't use OS X, but I do :D
11:36<drush>speaking of OSX,
11:36<andythenorth>and we are not short of testing machines
11:36<TrueBrain>so douh ituh!
11:36<drush>I've a question about universal builds for OSX
11:36<drush>they install a 3in1 binary or is there a way to install one of 3 binaries based on detected arch?
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11:47<TrueBrain>andythenorth: your turn
11:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r24470 /trunk/config.lib: -Feature [FS#5270]: be a tiny bit GNU autotools compatible, for those who expect all software to follow GNU guidelines
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11:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r24471 /trunk/config.lib: -Feature: unbreak multiparam configure settings (--setting value), which clearly nobody uses, as it has been broken .... for a while
11:52<andythenorth>TrueBrain: \o/ he
11:52<TrueBrain>and, ofc, as requested, a more liberal interpertation of Feature ;)
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11:53<RichyB>TrueBrain: thank you!
11:53<RichyB>(w.r.t. even)
11:53<TrueBrain>I understood ;)
11:53<TrueBrain>r24471 is more nasty ... nobody clearly ever uses multiparam :P
11:53<TrueBrain>we might as well remove it tbh
11:57<TrueBrain>now andythenorth tells me you are going to fix OSX bugs, tnx for that, we really need someone taking care of that
11:57<andythenorth>RichyB: I told him you live in an office full of macs :D
11:57<andythenorth>but also that you don't use them
11:57<RichyB>Of which I use none! :|
11:57*andythenorth was being an optimistic
11:57<TrueBrain>I fail to see the issue :)
11:58*RichyB pokes FlySpray. What kind and severity of OS X bugs do we have anyway?
11:58*andythenorth finds the list
11:58<TrueBrain>summary: OpenTTD does not officially support OSX
11:59<andythenorth>yet numerous devs / newgrf devs use it :)
11:59<andythenorth>but we are too haphazard to fix it :P
11:59<RichyB>That's mostly crash bugs on FlySpray.
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13:12<andythenorth>hi Alberth
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13:22<@Alberth>was the patch of any use, or did you not get that far?
13:23*Alberth wonders how to program a callback
13:26<andythenorth>Alberth: definitely going to be of use, but untested (work work)
13:26<andythenorth>cb programming is easy
13:26<andythenorth>I've done it :P
13:26<andythenorth>you just handle the result from the grf
13:26<andythenorth>easy' assuming that you want to do an easy thing that is :)
13:26*andythenorth biab
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r24472 /trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: turkish - 24 changes by otrkmen
13:46<Rubidium>the severity of any OSX bug is, by now, near zero. If it were severe, then someone would have fixed it already
13:47<TrueBrain>in that rain of thought, Windows is a very well protected and safe system ;)
13:48<@Alberth>it is, just don't connect it to anythng :p
13:48<TrueBrain>don't boot it :D
13:48<@Alberth>that works too, my W95 has not been hacked, despite being very old ;)
13:50<Rubidium>what's wrong with Windows 95?
13:50<TrueBrain>I believe the whole conclusion is: nothing
13:50<Rubidium>it has been (and is still) doing its job fine for over 15 years on a measurement train ;)
13:51<TrueBrain>explains the issue yesterday I guess :D :)
13:51<Rubidium>(not to mention that NT4 also still runs)
13:51<BenTrein>Other than that it was the first step of your OS taking control of your computer - and telling you what to do - nothing much wrong with Win95. I thought it was a very expensive virus.
13:54<Rubidium>TrueBrain: nope, that's actually another train ;)
13:55<TrueBrain>Rubidium: :D
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13:58<BenTrein>RichyB - I very much like that article.
13:59<RichyB>Thought you might. ^^
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15:27<@Yexo><Rubidium> it has been (and is still) doing its job fine for over 15 years on a measurement train ;) <- Had that comment come from anyone else I'd have asked: "Are you serious?"
15:29<@Yexo>are there any statistics about which linux kernel versions are still actively used?
15:31<Rubidium>Yexo: I doubt there will be about machines that are rarely (or not) connected to the internet
15:31<Fawksie> if it's the NMT you're on about, then they have to be praised for their attention to detail in making a Windows XP skin for Windows 95
15:31<@Yexo>Rubidium: my question was unrelated to the previous discussion
15:32<@Yexo>at work we had some questions from a customer who had problems which were caused by a 2.6.18 kernel (RHEL5)
15:33<@Yexo>that made me wonder because I thought that 2.6.18 is quite old
15:33<Kjetil>if it is a RHEL kernel it is probably nothing like the mainline 2.6.18 kernel
15:34<Kjetil>probably patched to the moon
15:34<Rubidium>Yexo: RHEL5 is supported until 31-03-2017 for normal, and 31-03-2020 for extended life cycle
15:34<Rubidium>RHEL3 is still in between the normal end of life and extended end of life
15:34<Rubidium>and that's 2.4.21-4
15:35<Kjetil>good old 2.4 <3
15:35<Rubidium>2.6.18-308 looks insane as a version number though ;)
15:35<@Yexo>thanks for the info :)
15:36<Rubidium>it's just wikipedia info though ;)
15:36<@Alberth>Yexo: but there is nothing recent you can compile on such systems :p
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15:37<@Yexo>the readme of some drivers we ship said it should work on 2.6.18, but nobody bothered to test it
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15:37<@Yexo>(well, this customer did :p)
15:38<Kjetil>whoops :P
15:38<andythenorth>ah work
15:38*andythenorth is working
15:38<TrueBrain>can I quote you on that?
15:38<andythenorth>but as a good capitalist, I don't mind
15:38<Kjetil>working, but on irc.. DOES NOT COMPUTE
15:39*andythenorth just committed 7 patches while cooking dinner
15:39<@Alberth>Kjetil: find the right boss :)
15:39<TrueBrain>I am forced to use IRC by my boss ..
15:39<andythenorth>I make it mandatory too
15:40<Rubidium>Alberth: that small progsel I made a few weeks ago most likely compiles on such a system; it even compiles and runs on NT4
15:40<Kjetil>Alberth: heh. I would just spend all day doing non-job related stuff
15:40<TrueBrain>Kjetil: I think that says more about you than IRC ;)
15:41<Kjetil>Never. I blame IRC
15:41<andythenorth>work is one of the more fun things to do
15:41<andythenorth>most things are less fun than work
15:42<andythenorth>right what's on forums today?
15:42*andythenorth ventures
15:42<andythenorth>oh, making money by hauling a long way
15:42<andythenorth>is a known non-problem
15:43<andythenorth>on to the suggestions forum...
15:43<andythenorth>ah, I think 'meh' will cover that
15:44<andythenorth>32BPP blitter stuff I don't understand
15:44<andythenorth>with pictures
15:44<andythenorth>how intriguing
15:44<Zuu>Shouldn't at least one of GSTileList_IndustryProducing and GSTileList_IndustryAccepting take a cargo as argument?
15:44<Zuu>To work with industries that don't accept/produce on all tiles
15:45<Zuu>or is tiles that only produce/accept a subset of all cargos not possible?
15:45<andythenorth>those industries should be considered broken :P
15:45<Zuu>But those exist in the default industry set?
15:46<@Yexo>Zuu: I think you're supposed to filter that tilelist by AITile.GetCargoAcceptance > 8 or so
15:46<andythenorth>iirc default steel mill accepts PAX on some tiles
15:47<@Yexo>for example steel mill accepts passengers, if there are some houses nearby more tiles might accept PAX than if it was just to be delivered to the steelmill
15:47<Zuu>Yexo: Yes, but if that function only generate a tile list with a radius around the industry, that will fail if some border tiles don't produce all cargos.
15:47<@Yexo>the actual cargo can still be processed by the industry in that case
15:47<@Yexo>Zuu: I don't think production is by tile
15:47<@Yexo>only acceptance is I think
15:48<andythenorth>+1 to what yexo sai
15:48<Zuu>still the problem remains for the acceptance case?
15:48<@Yexo>filter the list you get by GSTile.GetCargoAcceptance
15:48<@Yexo>you need in total 8/8 acceptance for the cargo to be accepted by the station
15:49<@Yexo>but that doesn't need to come from one industry
15:49<@Yexo>when cargo arrives at the station it'll be distribute to the closest industry, even if that has only one tile that accepts only 1/8 of the cargo
15:49<@Yexo>^^ all from memory, not 100% sure
15:50<Zuu>exactly, in some rare cases it may broke if a ajacent industry provide coverage at a "false" tile.
15:50<Zuu>But I'll ignore that for now then... :-)
15:50<Zuu>And hope noone will exploit that in the tutorial :-)
15:50<@Yexo>I don't see how it is broken?
15:51<Zuu>I try to write Station.IsCargoAcceptedByIndustry(station_id, cargo, industry_id)
15:51<@Yexo>why not use GsIndustry.IsCargoAccepted?
15:52<Zuu>It doesn't verify that a given station id covers the industry
15:53<@Yexo>first find all industries within range of the station, than use GSIndustry.IsCargoAccepted to filter industries that accept the cargo. The cargo will be delivered to the industry closest to the station (flag)
15:54<Zuu>My core problem is to wait for the user to place a station "near" an industry/town with sufficent production/acceptance.
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16:10<Zuu>... is swedish for 'if'.
16:11<NGC3982>Or the start of Nom.
16:12<@Yexo>is "start" swedish for "end"?
16:12<NGC3982>Start in swedish is ..start.
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16:18<LordAro>evening alls
16:19<NGC3982>Yexo: Who told you that?
16:20<drac_boy>hi LordAro
16:21<LordAro>hi drac_boy
16:21<LordAro>Yexo: thanks for your commits, taking a look at the 3rd patch now
16:22<@Yexo>NGC3982: I was referring to "<NGC3982> Or the start of Nom."
16:23<@Yexo>LordAro: you're welcome :)
16:23<@Yexo>didn't look very long at the 3rd patch, I think it's mostly ok
16:23<@Yexo>just put some quick points there
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16:26<NGC3982>Yexo: Oh, i see whatz u did thar.
16:28<@peter1138>Meh, only getting 5MB/s :-(
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16:30<@peter1138>Oh well, 415MB in 1 minute 20 seconds isn't so bad I suppose.
16:31<@Terkhen>sounds good enough
16:31<TrueBrain>depends on what you are doing, not? :)
16:32*NGC3982 brings forth swedish bandwith.
16:34<LordAro>Yexo: HasBaseSet > FindBaseSet ?
16:34<Kjetil>Bandwidth filled to the brim with surveilance
16:35<LordAro>i can't really think of any other...
16:37<@Yexo>or TryGet...File or something
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16:38<LordAro>'TryGetBaseSetFile' ?
16:38<LordAro>that sounds reasonable
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16:47<Zuu>Oh well this road chapter is taking some time. But as a side product of it SuperLib will gain some new functions and the road path finder lib will need to be ported to GS.
16:48<Zuu>At least it's getting forward.
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17:01<tr>'lo. is there any way to set objectives/goals in scenarios? i'd like the game to, if not end, display some sort of "you failed to meet the goals" message if objectives aren't achieved by a certain date (or, say, within a certain budget)
17:04<Zuu>Have you tried the Split scenario?
17:05<Zuu>Ensure you get both the scenario file and the game script with the same name.
17:05<LordAro>oh, interesting... a seg fault
17:06<Zuu>It doesn't have a deadline, but if you are too late to reach the goal, then the gift given when you reach the goal have vanished.
17:07<tr>Zuu: thanks, trying it now
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17:30<@Terkhen>good night
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17:54<LordAro>Yexo: if you're still around, a comment has been posted to the patch 'thread' on the flysprays
17:54<@Yexo>^^ that's what notification emails are for ;)
17:54<@Yexo>I won't be around much longer, so that's not for today anymore
17:55<LordAro>kk :)
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19:56<drac_boy>hi chrill-not-chill
19:56<drac_boy>heh heh
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20:04<Chrill>hi drac_boy not dracula!
20:04<Chrill>chill really needs to change his name :O
20:04<Chrill>chillax patchpack
20:05<Chrill>sounds weird..
20:06<drac_boy>heh well its too late, its already out? :)
20:06<drac_boy>how're you still?
20:06<Chrill>im fine
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20:14<drac_boy>doing ok ty
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---Logclosed Wed Aug 15 00:00:18 2012