| --- | Log | opened Wed Aug 15 00:00:18 2012 |
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| 02:44 | <NGC3982> | herpy derpy |
| 02:48 | <@peter1138> | Yes and no |
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| 03:02 | <NGC3982> | I just noticed the parameter functions on ECS and 2CC. |
| 03:03 | <NGC3982> | Quadroupled costs + No-industry-closing make a neat scenario. |
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| 06:02 | <drac_boy> | hi |
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| 06:12 | <@Terkhen> | good morning |
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| 06:13 | <V453000> | afternoon Terkhen :p |
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| 06:14 | <Wolf01> | hello o/ |
| 06:14 | <@Terkhen> | it's morning for me :) |
| 06:14 | <@Terkhen> | hi Wolf01 |
| 06:17 | <drac_boy> | V453000 its morning here as well :p |
| 06:17 | <V453000> | well I guess it depends on how you declare morning |
| 06:18 | <drac_boy> | anything from dawn to before noon :) |
| 06:18 | <@Terkhen> | nah, it is not "really" morning here, but it felt like morning for me |
| 06:22 | <V453000> | that is what I mean :D |
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| 06:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | drac_boy: that doesn't apply, because it was after 12:00 when you joined |
| 06:43 | <drac_boy> | its actually 06:43 now silly |
| 06:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | unless "noon" means "highest point of the sun", then that would put it at 13:00 in summer |
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| 09:10 | <@Belugas> | hello |
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| 09:36 | * | Belugas is working on implementing threads for work@work. SQL queries through threads. Lovely |
| 09:36 | <@Belugas> | boss has so many crazy ideas... |
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| 09:50 | <Rubidium> | oh, one of those bosses that heard "threads" and/or "multi-core computing" and thus wants to add threads to an application |
| 09:50 | <Rubidium> | good luck making it slower by doing the SQL query in another thread and waiting for that thread to complete before continueing |
| 09:52 | <frosch123> | is threading in delphi still as broken as it was 10 years ago? |
| 09:53 | <frosch123> | back then was: newer use the "synchronize" methjod, it locks up the application when exiting |
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| 09:54 | <Rubidium> | on the other hand, doing a SQL query on a database server offloads it to another thread ;) |
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| 09:57 | <@Belugas> | well... i do not neet to fetch a result, it's an update/insert/delete stuff |
| 09:57 | <@Belugas> | the point was more to free up the program for not important immediate processing |
| 09:58 | <@Belugas> | idea is good, and Delphi 4 is diong the job fine, so far |
| 10:02 | <@Belugas> | synchronize is indeed to avoid for most usage. i go with CriticalSections instead. |
| 10:02 | <@Belugas> | tricky, i need to create my one TSession for each thread accessing BDE :S |
| 10:38 | <kais58> | I hate SQL |
| 10:39 | <lilleman> | I love SQL |
| 10:48 | <@Belugas> | I love SQL too. very effective |
| 10:49 | <Warod> | map-reduce is nice too. :> |
| 10:49 | <@Belugas> | I guess you hate it when you don't either know it or use it or are good with it |
| 10:50 | <Warod> | Or know too much of things done with it. |
| 10:52 | <Rubidium> | for certain things SQL isn't very effective though |
| 10:54 | <@Belugas> | granted |
| 10:54 | <lilleman> | SQL is not very good at cooking food :/ |
| 10:55 | <@Belugas> | but for a POS system/chain of stores management, it is quite effective |
| 10:55 | <@Belugas> | when on-time data is not required, as an example... |
| 10:58 | <@Belugas> | note that i might be tempted with a faster i/o based db system for cash sales and such |
| 10:58 | <@Belugas> | sometimes, it's a bit too much |
| 10:59 | <@Belugas> | robustness and speed sometimes clash |
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| 12:07 | <__ln__> | http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/freight/single-view/view/first-chinese-built-locomotive-shipped-to-an-eu-customer.html |
| 12:08 | <BenTrein> | Time to learn Chinese fellows. |
| 12:13 | <Starlight> | Doesn't look bad. |
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| 12:46 | <NGC3982> | __ln__: GRF it! GRF it before it lay eggs! |
| 12:53 | <BenTrein> | :D |
| 12:55 | <NGC3982> | Does a town stop accepting water at some point in tropical climate? |
| 12:56 | <BenTrein> | As long as it keeps it's watertower it should keep accepting it. |
| 12:56 | <BenTrein> | Or are you talking ecs? |
| 12:56 | <NGC3982> | ECS. |
| 12:56 | <BenTrein> | Ah, sorry. I got no idea. :D |
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| 12:57 | <NGC3982> | I didnt really realize that i didnt have a water tower at all |
| 12:57 | <BenTrein> | :) Maybe that helps. |
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| 13:45 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: translators * r24473 /trunk/src/lang/portuguese.txt: |
| 13:45 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
| 13:45 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by filipemsoares |
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| 13:55 | <andythenorth> | hola |
| 13:55 | <@Terkhen> | hi andythenorth |
| 13:55 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 13:56 | <andythenorth> | who here is familiar with Club-Mate? |
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| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: \o/ |
| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | this stuff |
| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | is goo |
| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | d |
| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club-Mate |
| 14:05 | <@Alberth> | Man gewöhnt sich daran :) |
| 14:06 | <@Alberth> | so you're super hyper now with all that cafeine? :) |
| 14:07 | <andythenorth> | not today |
| 14:07 | <andythenorth> | today I am having caffeine crash |
| 14:09 | <NGC3982> | I just love how i can deliver steel to a tinning factory and create food for a nearby town. |
| 14:09 | <NGC3982> | It's like soylent transformers or something. |
| 14:11 | <andythenorth> | this channel has a minor soylent obsession |
| 14:11 | <@Belugas> | better then caffeine trash |
| 14:11 | <andythenorth> | :P |
| 14:11 | <Wolf01> | http://englishrussia.com/2012/08/13/where-steam-trains-rest/ yeah, that's my ottd museum :D |
| 14:17 | <NGC3982> | Wolf01: I love that. |
| 14:17 | <NGC3982> | I so want to live in a place like that |
| 14:23 | <Rubidium> | the heating bill will be horrible |
| 14:23 | <@Belugas> | may want to visit this one, NGC3982 : http://www.exporail.org/en/welcome-to-exporail/ |
| 14:24 | <@Belugas> | half an hour drive from my place :) |
| 14:24 | <Rubidium> | just horrid accessibility from the main train station :( |
| 14:28 | <@Belugas> | quite |
| 14:29 | <@Belugas> | ho. did you tried to visit it? would you have wished? |
| 14:29 | * | Starlight does have a minor shunting yard near by. :3 |
| 14:29 | <@Belugas> | sorry, it did not cross my mind it would be interesting for you |
| 14:29 | <@Belugas> | make one in lego, Starlight :) |
| 14:30 | <Rubidium> | when I saw the horrid connection there I chose not to go |
| 14:30 | <Rubidium> | and do some other stuff, rather than sit 4 hours in transit |
| 14:30 | <Rubidium> | especially since I've been to something similar in Cowgary |
| 14:32 | <Starlight> | Ha. Well, considering where I live, I think it connects to multiple locations. I do have a freight line track right across the street. The train comes around at night carrying coal (I think?) and .. as OpenTTD would have; Iron Ore (again! I think?) to the Steel Mill. |
| 14:32 | <Starlight> | All I know is, they are defiently coal hoppers from CSX. |
| 14:32 | <@Belugas> | true, Rubidium. so instead, we've sat for more then 4 hours in my car :D |
| 14:33 | <@Belugas> | plus, i assumed you have your share of trains in a yearly basis ;) |
| 14:33 | <Rubidium> | yep, even "cattle class" ;) |
| 14:34 | <NGC3982> | Belugas: ;) |
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| 14:37 | <Rubidium> | http://www.het-digitale-spoor.nl/2011/Foto/2011-006.jpg is pretty much cattle class ;) |
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| 14:37 | <andythenorth> | is that in HEQS? |
| 14:38 | <Rubidium> | I doubt that, neither in the Dutch train set |
| 14:38 | <Rubidium> | although I didn't ask about that one |
| 14:38 | <andythenorth> | how many PAX does it carry? :P |
| 14:39 | <Rubidium> | it has "seats" for two (besides the drive) |
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| 14:39 | <Rubidium> | comfort class: NaN |
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| 14:42 | <@Belugas> | Rubidium, you didnot meant that type of cattle class, don't you? : http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MCuRuJvraI8/TfryPQg-69I/AAAAAAAAAoM/gC6jY97ruIk/s1600/R.C.%2BGift%2BCaricature.jpg |
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| 14:55 | * | andythenorth tries Alberth's industry patch |
| 14:55 | <@Alberth> | (08:54:30 PM) Alberth: andythenorth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1040765#p1040765 <-- shall I add indonesian.lng ? |
| 14:56 | <andythenorth> | ok :) |
| 14:56 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 14:57 | <andythenorth> | using my leet shell skills, I should be able to pipe this output to a file |
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| 14:58 | <@Alberth> | ./openttd -d ind=4 >& tzelogvile |
| 14:58 | <andythenorth> | the & helps :) |
| 14:59 | <@Alberth> | it's a bit blunt, it redicrects everything :) |
| 15:00 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 15:00 | <andythenorth> | the total number of +ve or -ve seems to be roughly balanced |
| 15:01 | <andythenorth> | 1 too few currently |
| 15:01 | <andythenorth> | I am deliberately testing an easy case - flat map, lots of space |
| 15:01 | <@Alberth> | yeah, it's pretty good at reaching the required number of industries :p |
| 15:02 | <andythenorth> | not sure how often the cb is running |
| 15:02 | <andythenorth> | I ffwed about 1 year of game time, and get 4 runs |
| 15:02 | <andythenorth> | approx |
| 15:12 | <@Alberth> | it has been a few years, I don't have the details in my head any more. You could try to bulldoze a few industries, and see what happens |
| 15:14 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: i think it depends on the map size |
| 15:14 | <frosch123> | maybe once per month on 256x256 ? |
| 15:20 | <andythenorth> | maybe I should add game month + year to the debug output |
| 15:29 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 15:30 | <andythenorth> | just got a scrap yard and steel mill in 1879 |
| 15:30 | <andythenorth> | available since 1873 |
| 15:31 | <andythenorth> | '1' is not a very large sample |
| 15:31 | <andythenorth> | I would have to play a lot of games I guess |
| 15:31 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 15:32 | <andythenorth> | "Target count recalculated" |
| 15:32 | <andythenorth> | followed by ""Scrap Yard" opened" |
| 15:32 | <andythenorth> | changed from "1 too few" to "4 too few" |
| 15:33 | <@Alberth> | Target count recalculated means some industry availability or random probability changed, so it re-computes (with a random number generator) how many industries to make of each type |
| 15:34 | <@Alberth> | the use of the RG means that the numbers will change a bit every time |
| 15:35 | <andythenorth> | ok, so it does listen to cb 22 |
| 15:35 | <andythenorth> | by some means |
| 15:35 | <@Alberth> | How do you make a callback? |
| 15:35 | <@Alberth> | of ocurse it listens to the newgrf :) |
| 15:35 | <andythenorth> | I assume you mean 'how to add to ottd?' |
| 15:35 | <andythenorth> | :) |
| 15:36 | <@Alberth> | yes, if you know that :) |
| 15:36 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 15:36 | <andythenorth> | one min |
| 15:36 | <@Alberth> | but I'd settle for a few NFO lines too :) |
| 15:36 | <@Alberth> | the newgrf specs are just horrible, they don't explain anything |
| 15:37 | <andythenorth> | a patch does though :) |
| 15:37 | <andythenorth> | one min |
| 15:38 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3196/cb_15f.patch |
| 15:38 | <andythenorth> | that was accepted so must be ok :) |
| 15:39 | <andythenorth> | add it to a newgrf_callbacks.h, add to newgrf_debug_data.h |
| 15:39 | <andythenorth> | (don't need debug if not trying for trunk inclusion) |
| 15:39 | <andythenorth> | add code to industry_cmd.cpp to handle it |
| 15:39 | <andythenorth> | then you'll need a test grf |
| 15:40 | <andythenorth> | extending nml is trivial; grfcodec less so |
| 15:40 | <@Alberth> | grfcodec fails to just code what I tell it to? |
| 15:40 | <@Alberth> | *encode |
| 15:40 | <frosch123> | andy means nforenum |
| 15:40 | <andythenorth> | it or nforenum _might_ throw errors |
| 15:41 | <andythenorth> | it's harder to take renum out of a FIRS nfo build than to fix nml :P |
| 15:41 | <andythenorth> | anyway |
| 15:41 | <andythenorth> | it's solvable |
| 15:41 | <@Alberth> | I would hope that nforrenum makes noise when using undefined cb's :) |
| 15:41 | <@Alberth> | -r |
| 15:43 | <@Alberth> | My problem is currently that I don't know which action to use for defining a cb. |
| 15:43 | <NGC3982> | Im not understanding the ECS wiki |
| 15:44 | <NGC3982> | I note that number of visits + full load is the best way to handle ECS vectors |
| 15:44 | <NGC3982> | But i have no idea why. |
| 15:44 | <@Alberth> | NGC3982: you understand the newgrf specs wiki? maybe we can swap our problems :p |
| 15:44 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: action in nml? nfo? or ottd? |
| 15:45 | <frosch123> | what are you actually heading for? |
| 15:45 | <frosch123> | i did not quite understand that :s |
| 15:45 | <NGC3982> | Alberth: <not>. |
| 15:45 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: adding a cb is deceptively easy :) |
| 15:45 | <andythenorth> | that's why my patch got accepted :P |
| 15:47 | <@Alberth> | I was thinking to start with moving the total number of industries number into a newgrf cb. |
| 15:49 | <andythenorth> | what return values are valid? |
| 15:49 | <andythenorth> | byte or word? |
| 15:49 | <@Alberth> | word |
| 15:49 | <andythenorth> | result is got from something like: |
| 15:49 | <andythenorth> | uint16 res = GetIndustryCallback(CBID_INDUSTRY_PROD_CHANGE_BUILD, 0, 0, i, type, INVALID_TILE); |
| 15:50 | <frosch123> | Alberth: a single callback for total amount? or per industry type? |
| 15:50 | <frosch123> | the latter would be the same as cb22 |
| 15:50 | <@Alberth> | total amount |
| 15:50 | <andythenorth> | allowing values other than '55' :P |
| 15:50 | <frosch123> | for a single callback independent of industry type, you want a so called "generic callback" |
| 15:51 | <frosch123> | take a look at AmbientSoundEffectCallback for an example |
| 15:52 | <@Alberth> | and taking mapsize and industry density into account by the newgrf may make sense too |
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| 15:53 | * | andythenorth is playing a FIRS game in 1870s and enjoying it |
| 15:54 | <andythenorth> | setting 0 intro date for some more industries helps prevent broken chains in 1870 |
| 15:54 | <andythenorth> | = more fun |
| 15:54 | <andythenorth> | but also my train set doesn't have trains until 1905 |
| 15:54 | <andythenorth> | so I only have steam trams and ships |
| 15:54 | <andythenorth> | minimal = a little more fun |
| 15:58 | <@Alberth> | did you see the post about making a game script for FIRS andy? |
| 15:58 | <andythenorth> | where's it to? |
| 15:59 | <@Alberth> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1040649#p1040649 |
| 15:59 | <andythenorth> | ta |
| 15:59 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 16:00 | <andythenorth> | well that will provide evidence at least |
| 16:00 | <andythenorth> | I've given up again trying to solve GS and am sticking to the newgrf end :P |
| 16:00 | <andythenorth> | I know zero about GS, so I'm incompetent there |
| 16:04 | <andythenorth> | ugh |
| 16:04 | <andythenorth> | I just found one of the reasons I hate FIRS |
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| 16:06 | <andythenorth> | gah I hate farms |
| 16:06 | <andythenorth> | I've done them all wrong |
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| 16:07 | <@planetmaker> | hello |
| 16:08 | <andythenorth> | lo planetmaker |
| 16:09 | <@planetmaker> | what's 'all wrong' about farms, andythenorth? |
| 16:09 | <@planetmaker> | how they work? how they look? their overall existence? |
| 16:09 | <@Alberth> | they are too much left, otherwise they would be right :) |
| 16:10 | <andythenorth> | they're fun with one cargo |
| 16:10 | <andythenorth> | I like the clustering |
| 16:10 | <andythenorth> | as soon as I want to ship both cargos and/or deliver supplies |
| 16:10 | <andythenorth> | I either have horrible contention |
| 16:10 | <andythenorth> | or I have to surround each farm with infrastructure |
| 16:10 | <andythenorth> | which is (a) boring (b) dumb (c) doesn't look nice |
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| 16:12 | <andythenorth> | ach |
| 16:12 | <andythenorth> | I want to do something evil |
| 16:12 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 16:12 | <andythenorth> | each farm cluster also gains a farm supply drop off industry |
| 16:12 | <@planetmaker> | or rather >:-O |
| 16:12 | <andythenorth> | and industries can communicate :P |
| 16:13 | <andythenorth> | which o/c they can't :P |
| 16:13 | <andythenorth> | if I was using trains or boats I could use autorefit and backload supplies |
| 16:13 | <andythenorth> | but serving all farms with trains or boats also looks stupid |
| 16:14 | <andythenorth> | and HEQS trams shouldn't autorefit (they do, but then the game throws nice error messages :D ) |
| 16:14 | <andythenorth> | in summary, I don't like unwinnable problems |
| 16:14 | <andythenorth> | there's no win condition that can be reached here with the available tools :P |
| 16:18 | <@planetmaker> | what's wrong with using RV to supply farms from a nearby depot (=transfer station)? |
| 16:19 | <andythenorth> | too many stations :) |
| 16:19 | <andythenorth> | the problem isn't specific to farms really; it's specific to the number of cargos to pickup / dropoff |
| 16:19 | <@planetmaker> | one per farm? :-) |
| 16:19 | <andythenorth> | it just looks stupid at farms, whereas at processing industries it looks correct |
| 16:20 | <andythenorth> | pickup stations block, so waiting loops etc are needed |
| 16:20 | <andythenorth> | I can't actually think of a good solution beyond complaining ;) |
| 16:20 | <andythenorth> | I offered 'farms are one big industry' but it seemed unpopular |
| 16:21 | <andythenorth> | I guess changing supplies algorithm might count as a fix |
| 16:21 | <andythenorth> | one big delivery occasionally instead of trying to get small deliveries through the congestion |
| 16:21 | <@planetmaker> | for farms with short path to supply depot you can forgo the "full load" order and just use normal load. Thus won't block |
| 16:22 | <@planetmaker> | with road side stops it won't even really show much |
| 16:22 | <@Alberth> | give up on trying to get maximum amount of cargo from them? |
| 16:23 | <@planetmaker> | maybe :-P |
| 16:24 | <@planetmaker> | with really max production... it's difficult to use only one. But a few well-placed stops do. As one station |
| 16:24 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 16:25 | <andythenorth> | not using full load might be plausible if I can match vehicles to output better |
| 16:25 | <andythenorth> | someone had a patch for something like 'wait in depot until station is free' or such |
| 16:25 | <andythenorth> | would prevent blocking |
| 16:26 | <andythenorth> | bit fiddly |
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| 16:27 | <@planetmaker> | station will be free, if you don't use full load |
| 16:27 | <@planetmaker> | or you really have too many vehicles |
| 16:27 | <andythenorth> | what rules out the "load at least x%" idea that's suggested occasionally ? |
| 16:27 | <@planetmaker> | rather you need means to time schedule the vehicles properly |
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| 16:28 | <andythenorth> | I should maybe match vehicles to output |
| 16:28 | <andythenorth> | trams have 4x monthly output |
| 16:28 | <andythenorth> | so take 4 months to load |
| 16:29 | <andythenorth> | but travel time means more smaller vehicles would be needed |
| 16:29 | <andythenorth> | and that's higher capital cost |
| 16:30 | <andythenorth> | there's no obvious single cause or fix for this |
| 16:30 | <andythenorth> | rv-wagons would allow a tram to have one supply vehicle at the end |
| 16:30 | <andythenorth> | changing FIRS supplies would allow occasional large deliveries |
| 16:30 | <andythenorth> | inter-industry communication would allow a completely different approach to supplies |
| 16:31 | <andythenorth> | could do this as a town-effect cargo :P |
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| 16:34 | <frosch123> | night |
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| 16:34 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 16:34 | <andythenorth> | my game is building missing industries |
| 16:34 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: if the game had *lots* of missing types it might not play catchup so well? |
| 16:35 | <andythenorth> | whereas if there are few it has a better chance? |
| 16:35 | <andythenorth> | or does it adjust required amounts proportionally? |
| 16:35 | <andythenorth> | ah, also frequency matters |
| 16:37 | <@Alberth> | the missing industry types that are forced to exist are separately handled from the random count, and take priority, except that there has to be missing industries |
| 16:37 | <@Alberth> | (as pointed out by Eddi) |
| 16:39 | <@Alberth> | I don't remember what happens exactly when it is up-to-date, it might just verify that the probabilities have not changed, and quit |
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| 16:41 | * | Alberth doubts the action 2 in the cb tut defines 133 loading stages :p |
| 16:41 | <@planetmaker> | hehe, rather not. iirc you can only have 4 |
| 16:42 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: ok, it's interesting to watch opening on a FIRS game |
| 16:42 | <andythenorth> | it's not science :P |
| 16:42 | <andythenorth> | I know have 0 slots, I think all available chains have at least one instance |
| 16:42 | <andythenorth> | but some are in small proportion |
| 16:43 | <andythenorth> | I need to try using cb22 to dump their probability to maximum maybe |
| 16:43 | <andythenorth> | but to make that work I have to count industries to prevent spamming the map with the new type over 50 years or so :P |
| 16:43 | <andythenorth> | and that needs map scaling too |
| 16:44 | <andythenorth> | not tonight :) |
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| 16:44 | <drac_boy> | hi |
| 16:45 | <@Alberth> | http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CallbacksTut#Example1:_using_Callback_33_.28new_sounds.29 <-- what's the 85 in sprite 13 ? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action2/Vehicles says it's a num-loadtypes |
| 16:45 | <andythenorth> | I have vehicles that will take >70 years to pay back their purchase cost :) |
| 16:45 | <@Alberth> | no sleep tonight thus :) |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | 85? |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | var size(?) |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | I am no good with terms |
| 16:46 | <drac_boy> | 70 years..why? |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | that's a word |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | $7k purchase, $100/year profit |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: that varaction2 is checking a word sized var |
| 16:47 | <andythenorth> | the one above is checking a byte, hence 81 there |
| 16:47 | <andythenorth> | you'll see the ranges in each are appropriately word and byte sized too |
| 16:47 | <andythenorth> | you need varaction 2 spec, not action 2 spec |
| 16:47 | <andythenorth> | ;) |
| 16:48 | <andythenorth> | http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2 |
| 16:48 | <drac_boy> | does it only carry like 1 or 2 tonnes of cargo? |
| 16:49 | <@Alberth> | how should I reach that conclusion? |
| 16:49 | <@Alberth> | drac_boy: or too close to make any useful profit, or too slow, or too high running cost, or ... :) |
| 16:50 | <andythenorth> | it carries 4 crates |
| 16:52 | <@Alberth> | one thing that might be useful to change is to check the percentage of missing industries instead of the count. |
| 16:53 | <andythenorth> | so try to build the idealised ratio according to probabilities? |
| 16:53 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
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| 16:54 | <andythenorth> | what's the actual issue I see? |
| 16:54 | <andythenorth> | - num. industries matters where enough primaries are needed to supply a secondary with decent production |
| 16:55 | <andythenorth> | - num industries slightly matters on larger maps, to avoid huge distances between supply / accept, but that could be solved by cb28 |
| 16:55 | <andythenorth> | second reason is a non-reason actually |
| 16:56 | <@Alberth> | right, so action 3 assumes variational action 2 instead of normal action 2? |
| 16:56 | <@Alberth> | grr, why didn't they give them a new action number |
| 16:57 | <andythenorth> | action 3 is happy with an action 2 or varaction 2 |
| 16:57 | <andythenorth> | it's easier if you turn sanity checks off in your brain |
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| 16:58 | <andythenorth> | nfo is completely fine (except stations) |
| 16:58 | <@Belugas> | that would make an excellent boy movie... it does not lack actions... |
| 16:58 | <andythenorth> | but don't expect a nice design |
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| 16:58 | <@Alberth> | I always had the idea that computers did not do magic, but I must be too stupid |
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| 16:59 | <@Alberth> | first issue should be solvable with correct industry probabilities |
| 16:59 | <andythenorth> | plausible |
| 16:59 | <@Alberth> | assuming there is enough room for constructing industries |
| 16:59 | <andythenorth> | assuming that |
| 16:59 | <andythenorth> | things look better on my flat map |
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| 16:59 | <andythenorth> | I usually play mountainous |
| 16:59 | <andythenorth> | flat has plenty of space for new types etc |
| 17:00 | <andythenorth> | btw, I learnt nfo by taking zephyris' uncommented one line sprites, and breaking them to multi-lines with comments |
| 17:00 | <andythenorth> | turns out 50% of my comments were wrong, but code still worked :P |
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| 17:00 | <andythenorth> | understanding is not 100% essential for nfo :P |
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| 17:00 | <@Alberth> | you probably need the terraforming fix to get more industries built |
| 17:01 | <@Alberth> | well, it helps a lot when you can find out what page to read :p |
| 17:01 | <@Alberth> | well, enough today, good night andy |
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| 17:03 | * | andythenorth bed too |
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| 17:31 | <andythenorth> | flat docks please |
| 17:31 | <andythenorth> | for use on rivers |
| 17:31 | <andythenorth> | k thx bai |
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| 17:36 | <Starlight> | .. Little does he know that rivers are objects. :s |
| 17:37 | <drac_boy> | Starlight yeah, wonder where he got that confused :) |
| 17:37 | <Starlight> | Lol. I don't know the under laying workings of OpenTTD, but rivers can be blown up. :P |
| 17:39 | <Starlight> | GRF just seems to be a headache to me.. and if I were to code anything, I have to make sure it's compatible with [insert cargo/trainset/tracks/roads/station here]. |
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| 17:44 | <drac_boy> | starlight I don't really see any need to..just make it generic, its rather simple |
| 17:44 | <Starlight> | Hm. I might take a crack at it some day. |
| 17:45 | <drac_boy> | although tracks do have a bit difficulity with different track gauge in term of pixels :/ (eg NG tracks need narrower platform clearances than SG ones) |
| 17:45 | <Starlight> | Yeah, understandable. |
| 17:46 | * | Zuu_ just posted yet another Game Script. |
| 17:46 | <Zuu_> | Although in this case, it is actually not for players, but for people who want to write their own GS and might have use for my template GS. |
| 17:50 | <drac_boy> | starlight mind you I'm sorta still debating the cargo labels in my slowly-coming-along grf yet :-s |
| 17:51 | <Starlight> | Yeah. Was going to use ECS, but noticed it and NARS2 isn't too compatible at a certain year frame. |
| 17:51 | <drac_boy> | at least the rolling stock list is almost finished..just some missing holes especially re no late goods wagons etc |
| 17:51 | <@planetmaker> | very nice idea, Zuu_ :-) |
| 17:52 | <drac_boy> | starlight..mm I'm not planning to use any existing industries/cargos just yet tho.. |
| 17:52 | <Starlight> | *nod* |
| 17:54 | <@planetmaker> | a cargo is a common name associated with a label and some properties which sort-of describe it like weight per unit and payment rates |
| 17:55 | <Zuu_> | planetmaker: it have been staying around on my harddrive for several months now and SquireJames interest into creating a GS gave me the final push to tidy it up and publish for others to use too. |
| 17:55 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 17:56 | <Zuu_> | While I agree on the non-war wishes, I think that its better to let him experiment and do his thing and see what he may come up with. |
| 17:57 | <Zuu_> | He could easily add a parameter to enable/disable war events as long as there are other events too. |
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| 17:57 | <@planetmaker> | I must have missed that thread them. I concur with your view, though |
| 17:58 | <Zuu_> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=59277 <-- thread |
| 17:59 | <@planetmaker> | oh, I posted there :D |
| 17:59 | <@planetmaker> | 3 months 5 months ago... |
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| 18:43 | <NGC3982> | Im dissapointed. |
| 18:44 | <NGC3982> | I have not yet seen a Curiosity GRF. |
| 18:44 | * | NGC3982 taps his wooden leg on the floor, giggles and goes to slep. |
| 18:44 | <NGC3982> | +e. |
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| 19:14 | <argoneus> | Hello |
| 19:14 | <argoneus> | Can anyone here help me with AI development? |
| 19:14 | <argoneus> | Or is this chat about the game only |
| 19:18 | <@Terkhen> | argoneus: this channel is for anything AI related |
| 19:19 | <@Terkhen> | but right now most of the usuals are sleeping already |
| 19:19 | <argoneus> | I don't quite understand how lists here work |
| 19:19 | <argoneus> | for example, I can't get it to print the list of towns alphabetically |
| 19:20 | <@Terkhen> | I don't know much about AI development myself, so I can't help you |
| 19:20 | <argoneus> | I see |
| 19:20 | <@Terkhen> | you might want to give the AI development subforum a try |
| 19:20 | <@Terkhen> | and, IIRC, there are tutorials at the wiki |
| 19:20 | <argoneus> | I'm following those |
| 19:22 | <@planetmaker> | argoneus: and you had a look at existing AIs as well? |
| 19:22 | <argoneus> | planetmaker: yes, but they are extremely complex |
| 19:22 | <argoneus> | for me anyway |
| 19:24 | <@planetmaker> | Hm, yes. Maybe indeed ask your question in the AI section of the forums. "Better" IRC times are evening hours instead of post-midnight in European times :-) |
| 19:24 | <argoneus> | sleeping is for scrubs |
| 19:24 | <argoneus> | ;P |
| 19:25 | * | planetmaker suddenly grows grey-green leaves |
| 19:25 | <@planetmaker> | who knows what people really do when they "go to sleep" ;-) |
| 19:26 | <@Terkhen> | I was going to sleep myself before I saw that question :P |
| 19:26 | <@Terkhen> | so good night |
| 19:28 | <@planetmaker> | good night Terkhen :-) |
| 19:28 | <@planetmaker> | time for me, too, actually |
| 19:32 | <Wolf01> | and for me too, night all |
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| 19:33 | <argoneus> | lol |
| 19:47 | <Mazur> | I usually go and read a bit. |
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| --- | Log | closed Thu Aug 16 00:00:21 2012 |
