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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-08-23

---Logopened Thu Aug 23 00:00:41 2012
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01:57<NGC3982>morning.
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04:13<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:33<V453000>lol what the hell, "Cheatin’ uh?" pops up when I want to add image in wordpress through the visual editor instead of html :D
04:34<V453000>and wont add images for a cookie :D
04:34<V453000>some nerd trap
04:36<NGC3982>:D
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05:12<V453000>ok it is apparently either just completely trolling me or it is very broken
05:12<V453000>a random page "Are you sure you want to do this?" without any buttons to reply to that question :D
05:20<NGC3982>:D
05:22<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure you're having great fun :)
05:23<V453000>seriously when this pops up I have no clue what now :D
05:24<V453000>there is usually some side solution around it but why is there that message in the first place :D
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07:13<SquireJames>Hello All
07:15<NGC3982>SquireJames: Hi.
07:17<@Terkhen>hi SquireJames
07:19<SquireJames>I was advised to come here and see if a kind soul might help me get OTTD to recognise my pitiful attempt at scripting
07:19<SquireJames>Right now, it won't even recognise that it is a game script
07:21<dihedral>greetings
07:23<Fremen>hiya
07:24<Fremen>is it fair in multiplayer to leech of other players' generated goods?
07:24<SquireJames>I think people misunderstand the goal of Transport Tycoon. There is no "leeching"
07:24<@Terkhen>it's a good place, yes... you might have to be patient if no one who knows about GS is around
07:24<Fremen>well it was just a question, I don't know what's ethical :p
07:24<SquireJames>If you can provide a better service than a competitor, you get the goods. You do not own the factories or the products; you merely transport them
07:25<SquireJames>If they have a problem, then thats their problem ;)
07:25<SquireJames>and wilco Terkhen, no rush. To be honest I doubt my script will work in it's current state anyway
07:26<@Terkhen>I agree, yes... the cargo is not yours and therefore it canr be stolen from you
07:26<@Terkhen>cant*
07:26<@planetmaker>Fremen, that mainly depends on the server. Abide by their rules. Some allow it, some don't.
07:26<@planetmaker>If you violate the rules, good servers are quick to ban you
07:28<SquireJames>Ah Hello planetmaker, will communicate via this applet then rather than clogging up a thread :)
07:28<@planetmaker>SquireJames, the shortname is four letters exactly... you use 5
07:28<Fremen>Well I find it weird that another players' station contains like 1500 goods and not never drop below 1200 while I have to wait in station to fill up while I got constantly one waiting for it
07:28<SquireJames>ah ha, okay, will fix that
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07:29<Eddi|zuHause>Fremen: check the station rating. if he even has 1% more, then he will get most of the goods
07:29<Fremen>why is that?
07:29<SquireJames>fixed, now reads "HIST", game still does not find script
07:29<@Terkhen>Fremen: use newer, faster vehicles to beat your opponent's rating
07:30<Fremen>aha
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>Fremen: it's a rule of the original game, i never quite understood it
07:30<dihedral>and service them regularly
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>Fremen: but the station with the higher rating gets something like a 66/33 split
07:30<Fremen>well I just got back in the game and it's the one thing I didn't understand so far
07:30<@Terkhen>yes, read the mechanics page to know how it works
07:30<Fremen>looks like I have to upgrade my trains :)
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>Fremen: a statue in the town helps a big deal
07:31<SquireJames>Also, if it's a bulk cargo like coal, try using feeders
07:31<Fremen>hah yeah I considered that
07:31<dihedral>and put the HQ where you have your main action going on
07:31<Fremen>it's goods
07:31<SquireJames>Should work with goods too
07:31<Fremen>yeh my HD is in that town
07:32<Fremen>HQ
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: why do you think the HQ has an influence at all?
07:32<SquireJames>(sorry I forget Goods is a cargo too, not just a category. Railway habits die hard!)
07:32<Fremen>I even started transporting passengers and mail in that town so the authoroty there likes me more
07:32<Fremen>not been successful :p
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07:33<Fremen>HQ generates passengers no?
07:33<Fremen>some
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>yes
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>which has no influence whatsoever on goods
07:34<Fremen>but it should improve my standing with the locals if I transport passengers no?
07:34<Fremen>well like a minuscule bit
07:34<Eddi|zuHause>the only real use-case for a HQ: if you start with passengers, and connect a large town to a small town, then put the HQ in the smaller town, so you have better symmetry
07:35<Fremen>yeh I started that way but those are now huge so I moved it
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>Fremen: yes, but local authority has only influence on construction, not on transporting
07:35<Fremen>and teh damn town isn't growing
07:37<Fremen>I see that AI player uses like 20 trucks
07:37<Fremen>that's why his rating is better
07:37<Fremen>kinda lame no?
07:39<Fremen>nvm
07:40<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, i thought it had an influence - where is it then... it has some kind of influence (or use to have)
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: i have no idea where you got your half-knowledge from
07:41<Fremen>hmm I have 72% station rating, he has 46%
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07:43<@Terkhen>frem
07:43<@Terkhen>Fremen: you must be getting more cargo then
07:44<Fremen>doens't feel that way but I guess I am
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07:46<@Terkhen>having a station with a lot of cargo is not a good sign :)
07:46<@Terkhen>in fact, IIRC, that reduces your rating too
07:46<Fremen>well it will drop probably and appear in mine
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07:46<Fremen>:p
07:46<Fremen>hm
07:47<Fremen>not so cool :p
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07:47<@Terkhen>your opponent might be getting less cargo
07:47<SquireJames>Still around planetmaker?
07:48<Fremen>yup my rating is droppen
07:48<@Terkhen>but since his/her service is not great, cargo piles up a lot
07:48<Fremen>but so is his
07:48<@Terkhen>hmm :)
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07:52<Fremen>I'm alrady happy I managed to build a train network in my first game in over a decade without crashing/clogging anything
07:57<Fremen>is there an AI that uses non-passenger trains?
07:59<SquireJames>Yes, Denver & Colorado or something
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08:07<@planetmaker>SquireJames, yes. But I don't know
08:13<SquireJames>Fair enough :) might go back to basics and get that basic script that was released
08:13<SquireJames>get that recognised by the game, then edit that
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08:18<SquireJames>It is, in theory, a remarkably simple script. All it does it produce a news article on certain dates. Hence it being particular frustrating that I cannot achieve something so simple
08:34<@Terkhen>ask Zuu once he is around :)
08:40<SquireJames>Will do :) would be nice to contribute something after all these years
08:40<SquireJames>NFO is white mans magic to me, I can draw but thats no good without a coder, and I am slowly, slowly learning NML.
08:47<@Terkhen>NML is simpler, yup
08:48<@Terkhen>you can check the existing tutorials, and also find working code examples at the openttdcoop devzone
08:51<@planetmaker>Fremen, try NoCab and admiralAI as well. maybe choochoo
08:51<@planetmaker>or simpleai
09:13<@Belugas>hello
09:16<SquireJames>Hello there Belugas
09:39<@Belugas>sir SquireJames :)
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10:09<Fremen>planetmaker I tried NoCAB, it's ok, it crashed once though
10:09<Fremen>Ovti is a rather extreme good AI
10:09<Fremen>I guess those aren't ment to win against? :p
10:10<@planetmaker>I won in 2.5 hours (10 game years) against every. Easily ;-)
10:10<@planetmaker>NoCAB is imho currently the smartest AI around, though
10:10<Fremen>well I have 2 nocabs and 2 ovti's running
10:10<Fremen>ovti is 1 and 2
10:11<@planetmaker>you should report the crashes to the NoCAB author (thread in AI (sub-)forums)
10:11<Fremen>I'm still learning though, but actually i don't like rushing so much, I love watching my networks :p
10:11<@planetmaker>hehe
10:11<Fremen>well the error message was gone before I could make a screenshot
10:11<@planetmaker>Try the NoCarGoa
10:12<@planetmaker>Try the NoCarGoal game script. It makes you continue to build ;-)
10:12<Fremen>heh
10:12<@planetmaker>the AIs have an error log, if you look at the respective AI. Usually
10:13<Fremen>meh I'm failign in upgrading my trains
10:14<Fremen>works great with vehicles (automatic)
10:14<Fremen>but with trains it's not working for some reason
10:16<Fremen>nvm
10:17<@planetmaker>depots need be accessible and on the route and servicing must be needed (not, if breakdowns = off and (no servicing, if breakdowns off) = on
10:17<Fremen>well it was an electric
10:17<Fremen>that's why I guess
10:17<Fremen>it wasn't working
10:17<Fremen>wanted to replace steam with electric :p
10:18<@planetmaker>that's no problem. First electrify everything. then replace
10:18<Fremen>workign now with diesel
10:18<Fremen>yeh but i'll wait with that for now
10:18<Fremen>I'm trying every aspect of teh game one by one :p
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12:55<@Alberth>o/
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13:05<maup>Hello, I have a question
13:05<maup>how to buy shares in the company competitive?
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13:08<bolli>maup: In the company window of whom you want to buy shares for i believe.
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13:09<maup>Yes, but this button is always inactive
13:09<bolli>Is this single player or multiplayer?
13:10<maup>single player
13:10<bolli>I believe the option to turn it on is in advanced settings
13:10<bolli>however, its only for companies that are more than 6 years old
13:11<maup>ok, i'll check settings
13:13<@Alberth>companies run by humans can only be bought up to 75% unless they get bankrupt iirc
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13:23<maup>that option was turned off, thanks
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13:33<@Alberth>hi andy
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13:59<andythenorth>ho
13:59<andythenorth>we've gone mainstream
13:59<andythenorth>first forum article I've seen with 'please send me the codes'
13:59<andythenorth>next there'll be stack overflow articles about nml
14:00<andythenorth>in fact if there aren't, we should start one :P
14:02<@Alberth>write a book :p
14:02<@planetmaker>there's a German manual ;)
14:02<@planetmaker>http://www.amazon.de/OpenTTD-offizielle-Handbuch-Einsteiger-ebook/dp/B005GTKGFO
14:05<@planetmaker>hm, which forum article you refer to, andythenorth?
14:06<andythenorth>planetmaker: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=62255 <- it's a nice post, not a bad one
14:06<andythenorth>just translation issues ;)
14:07<@Alberth>planetmaker: it seems to explain the basic ideas only, or does it go further, eg how to plan a game, possible goals one may have, etc?
14:08<@planetmaker>yes, nice thread, andythenorth
14:08<@planetmaker>Alberth: no, very basic indeed
14:14<andythenorth>so...MP NoCargoGoal?
14:14<andythenorth>PBI?
14:14<andythenorth>bigger target?
14:14<andythenorth>No trains!
14:15*andythenorth is somewhat addicted
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14:15<Wolf01>hello
14:17<@Alberth>o/
14:19<@Alberth>"somewhat" ???? :) Makes me wonder what happens with a real addiction :p
14:19<SquireJames>I guess it's like being a "little bit pregnant"
14:20<andythenorth>that tends to turn into being a lot more pregnant, usually
14:20<andythenorth>planetmaker: fancy setting up a new server game?
14:22<@planetmaker>I just need a map... the server's still there, just needs the command to "wake up"
14:29-!-Zuu_ [~chatzilla@212.28.207.194] has joined #openttd
14:29*Yexo makes a nice map
14:29<@planetmaker>:-)
14:30<@Yexo>any requests for newgrfs?
14:30<@Yexo>I was thinking a lot of opengfx+ ones
14:30<Zuu_>SquireJames: If you keep hitting your head at the wall after fixing the issues mentioned on the forums, tar/zip up your entire code and post it at the forums.
14:30<Zuu_>Rotated airports? :-)
14:30<SquireJames>Thanks Zuu, if it gives me any more trouble I shall :) I am sure it's a simple fix somewhere though. Probably staring me in the face
14:31<@Yexo>Zuu_: yes
14:31<@Yexo>although I'm not sure we'll be using any planes
14:33*TrueBrain kicks CIA-1
14:33<CIA-1>ow
14:34<andythenorth>Yexo: planetmaker HEQS, FISH, PBI
14:34<andythenorth>make it hard :P
14:34<andythenorth>no trains ;)
14:34<@Yexo>was size was the map yesterday?
14:34<andythenorth>512 x 256?
14:34<@planetmaker>512^2
14:34<andythenorth>ah
14:35<@planetmaker>arcitc with med. water
14:35<@Yexo>heqs 1.5.1?
14:35<andythenorth>plausible
14:35<@planetmaker>but propper spelling. latest bananas fish+heqs
14:35<andythenorth>have we got enough people for 2 teams?
14:35<@planetmaker>teams?
14:35<andythenorth>head to head :P
14:35<Zuu_>andythenorth: I forgot to thank you yesterday for the ideas behind NoCarGoal
14:35<andythenorth>co-opetitive
14:35<andythenorth>Zuu_: the ideas are stolen entirely from Railroad Tycoon :)
14:35<andythenorth>there's more we can steal
14:36<andythenorth>I would like to thank you for making it so nicely and so quickly ;)
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14:38<andythenorth>Zuu_: a common challenge in RT is variations on "build route from one side of map to other"
14:38<andythenorth>i.e. transcontinental USA, or all of Europe etc
14:38<andythenorth>which could be measured by hauling cargo across map?
14:39<SquireJames>Aye I remember those :) Good old transcontinental challenge
14:40<Zuu_>A GS cannot read the source of cargo when it is deliveried.
14:41<SquireJames>Yexo, whereabouts should I add that } ? I added one to the end of the file, did not seem to make a difference.
14:41<@Yexo>before RegisterGS
14:41<andythenorth>hmm
14:41<@Yexo>if you start openttd with "-d ai=5" you should see the error messages of your AI
14:42<andythenorth>also we don't have a linkgraph of connected stations I guess :(
14:42<@Yexo>oh, make that "game=5" for gamescripts (I think)
14:42<andythenorth>Zuu_: could be done in a scenario?
14:42<@Yexo>maybe it's "script=5" by now
14:42<andythenorth>primary industry at A (east), destination at B (West), disable build new industries, measure cargo delivered?
14:42<SquireJames>okeedoke
14:42<Zuu_>andythenorth: That would work
14:43<andythenorth>we need to teach GS to build industries
14:43<Zuu_>And you could do that just for one cargo so that the player can get some economy before attempting to cross.
14:43<andythenorth>yes
14:43<andythenorth>you have to
14:43<andythenorth>these are usually 35-40 year challenges
14:43<SquireJames>Could we teach GS to make their own GS, or would that result in the end of humanity as we know it? :P
14:43<Zuu_>Or the challenge is to make money from PAX so that you can connect the industries.
14:44<Zuu_>andythenorth: GS can build industries IIRC, but not for free.
14:44<andythenorth>some of the best longer challenges have a long money-building phase followed by frantic construction :)
14:44<SquireJames>Yexo, you did it :) It now recognises my GS
14:44<andythenorth>GS needs a money cheat
14:44<@Yexo>cool :)
14:44<andythenorth>is that blocked by worries about abuse?
14:44<@Yexo>now provide us with a new goal :p
14:45<Zuu_>Yexo: He have a syntax error in main.nut unless he have already fixed that.
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14:45<@Yexo>yes, but syntax errors in main.nut will show up in the debug window in-game
14:45<@Yexo>so they're easier to find/debug
14:45<andythenorth>reset base construction costs for everything while GS is building :P
14:45<andythenorth>then restore them
14:45<SquireJames>Yexo pointed that one out for me, with the correct number of closed parentheses it loads. Crashes as soon as the games ran of course but thats because my coding is currently shockingly bad :)
14:46<Zuu_>I though that fatal main.nut errors could stop the AI/GS from show up in the list, but then I stand corrected.
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14:46<Zuu_>SquireJames: If you use r24489 or later the crash will show up even more red in the debug window :-p
14:47<Zuu_>See what useful features I have made :-)
14:47<SquireJames>Indeed it does :)
14:47<Fremen>bah the server I was on crashed, better get my own :p
14:48<@planetmaker>servers don't "just crash"...
14:48<Fremen>well that one is gone :s
14:48<frosch123>some server we know?
14:49<Fremen>but I saw people were new to hosting so I guess they messed up
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14:49<Fremen>after 20 years in the game
14:50<Fremen>how heavy is it to host an Openttd server?
14:50<SquireJames>Quick little straw poll here, who likes the idea of historical news articles in game?
14:50<Fremen>in traffic
14:51<Zuu_>Often there is so many news that you don't have time to read them even if you disable the most spamy ones.
14:52<@Yexo>GS game is ready, same server/channel as yesterday
14:52<@planetmaker>Zuu_: generally I only display crashes, goals, that's it
14:53<@planetmaker>works well
14:53<andythenorth>SquireJames: tied to specific scenarios / newgrfs maybe
14:53<andythenorth>RT had them to some extent
14:53<andythenorth>essays...no :P
14:53*andythenorth goes looking for MP game
14:53<SquireJames>Well, RT was my inspiration :)
14:53<Zuu_>Maybe we should add a new news category for GS only to use so that GSs are not forced to insert their news into an existing category?
14:53<@planetmaker>yes, zuu
14:54<andythenorth>Zuu_: you playing again?
14:54<@planetmaker>goal news should be extra
14:54<SquireJames>I disable most of them Zuu, but I can see your point
14:54<SquireJames>I eventually want to try and tie my news articles to effects
14:54<Zuu_>I guess I need to get a todo-list to add upp all my ideas for things that "should" be different :-)
14:54<andythenorth>Alberth: MP?
14:54<SquireJames>So, for example, the Great Depression hits, economy suffers etc
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14:54<andythenorth>frosch123 ?
14:55*andythenorth is feeling sociables :P
14:55<@Alberth>andythenorth: not tonight, sorry
14:56<andythenorth>planetmaker: what's the irc channel?
14:56<@planetmaker>#openttdcoop.nightly
14:56<@planetmaker>you're in it already :-P
14:56<@Alberth>he wants to read it all two times :p
14:59<DDR>andythenorth: I'd have you a game, if we can find another person?
15:00<DDR>That is at least three people. It gets sort of competitive with only two people, I find. :(
15:01<Fremen>I'd like to play but I'm pretty newbie :p
15:01<DDR>All the more reason to play with people who know what they're doing.
15:01<Fremen>sure I'm in for a few hours :)
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15:02<SquireJames>Well my C++ knowledge is starting to come back a little. It's been a while! I've found the code for checking and returning the current date. Namely this static int32 GSDate::GetDate ( int32 year, int32 month, int32 day_of_month ) [static]
15:02<SquireJames>I assume I have to declare that in main.nut at the beginning
15:06<SquireJames>Well, that just crashed it. Hmm, thinking cap on
15:10<SquireJames>I'm officially stuck. All I need is a code that checks the current date every (in game) day and if it's a certain date, posts a certain message
15:13<Rubidium>just call it like: GSDate.GetDate(2012, 08, 23)
15:14<SquireJames>Ah, okay, think I got it. I'll try that :) Thanks
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15:39<Poo_Shitt>Hello.
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15:52<Zuu_>SquireJames: The int32 thingy is just an artifact of how the docs are generated. Although it does give you the information that it wants an integer.
15:52<Zuu_>To create local variables do: local a = 5;
15:53<Zuu_>GSDate.GetCurrentDate()
15:53<Zuu_>Gives you the current date
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15:54<Poo_Shitt>Got curious and checked Black Ops 2 on youtube.
15:54<Poo_Shitt>One thing I don't understand is why campaign is in future but the zombie mode is back in world war 2?
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16:34<@planetmaker>Poo_Shitt: wrong channel
16:36<Poo_Shitt>planetmaker: That was a life check.
16:36<Poo_Shitt>Good thing at least you replied.
16:36<Poo_Shitt>c:
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16:40<__ln__>hola
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16:59<Wolf01>'night all
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17:17<@Terkhen>good night
17:22<frosch123>night
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17:30<Zuu_>night
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18:16<@planetmaker>night
18:18<Kjetil>is that you God ?
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18:25<NGC3982>Sure is.
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19:37<Fremen>now that was a fun jam session :p
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>beware of the sandworms, if you make noise :p
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---Logclosed Fri Aug 24 00:00:45 2012