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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-08-27

---Logopened Mon Aug 27 00:00:46 2012
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01:05*Supercheese just noticed that HEQS doesn't support Autorefit
01:05<Supercheese>a travesty
01:06<Supercheese>Oh gads, it's in NFO
01:07<Supercheese>No chance of me helping out, then :(
01:09<Supercheese>barring helping with a full conversion to NML, that is
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02:06<andythenorth>la, la la la la
02:10<Supercheese>Hmm, if I wanted to make an Addon grf to an existing vehicle set, I suppose I'd have to grab the vehicle IDs from that set somehow
02:11<Supercheese>If they're auto-assigned, that could get tricky, no?
02:14<Supercheese>Oh pfff, the wiki has all that, I'm blind
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03:01<@Terkhen>good morning
03:01<Supercheese>Salve, excitate
03:02<Supercheese>I'd presume that allowing an autorefit that changes vehicle length is a bad idea
03:08<@Terkhen>I'm not sure what would happen, but probably bad things
03:18<andythenorth>hi Terkhen
03:20<@Terkhen>hi andythenorth and planetmaker
03:25<Supercheese>I liked r24497, solved my autorefit woes rather nicely
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04:19<@Terkhen>hi dihedral
04:24<dihedral>hey Terkhen :-) had a nice weekend?
04:31<@Terkhen>yes, thanks, I hope you did too :)
04:31<@Terkhen>hi telanus
04:43*andythenorth has been redesigning the internets
04:48<@Terkhen>hi NGC3982
04:50<@Terkhen>andythenorth: your design takes into account transmission over distances in which light speed has a significant impact?
04:51<andythenorth>not so much
04:51<andythenorth>mostly it's css :P
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05:06<Eddi|zuHause>"windows 8 phones home about every app you install"
05:12<szaman>i wonder how blue screen of death sounds like on the phone
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05:13<@Terkhen>it's only to make sure that you don't install malware, such as programs not recommended by microsoft
05:13<Chris_Booth>that would be amazing if their phones blue screened
05:13<@Terkhen>and they changed the blue screen to black IIRC
05:14<Chris_Booth>does anyone remember the Red Screen?
05:14<Chris_Booth>from one of the Vista Beta versions
05:14<@Terkhen>to spend less energy I guess
05:14<@Terkhen>Vista beta? I thought that vista was windows 7 beta
05:17<szaman>w thought vista was windows 7 beta
05:17<szaman>oh, sorry, same thought
05:20<NGC3982>Afaik, the BSOD doesn't exist in Windows 7 and later?
05:23<Eddi|zuHause>my impression was that they made it black, and more difficult to trigger
05:23<szaman>i saw one while loading windwos 7 and it was blue, but it was no 80x25 mode, it was something like 80x50 or more
05:24<szaman>it happens when you change your mobo
05:24<szaman>or hard disk controller
05:25<szaman>but less frequently as in XP, in XP every mobo change ruins OS :]
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05:32<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: I see.
05:33<NGC3982>szaman: Yeah, that was the lame thing about XP.
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06:10<@Terkhen>hi drac_boy
06:10<drac_boy>how doing Terkhen?
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06:19<NGC3982>mondays <3.
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06:40<andythenorth>is there a shell command to chain 2 fg processes, and both die when I kill the one in fg?
06:40<andythenorth>nvm if that's insane
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06:50<@planetmaker>andythenorth: blah && bluh
06:50<@planetmaker>like ./configure && make.
06:51<@planetmaker>or maybe blah | bluh like cat blub.txt | grep 'bullshit'
06:51<andythenorth>&& requires the previous command to return
06:51<andythenorth>whereas this process doesn't
06:51<@planetmaker>depends what you want :-)
06:51<andythenorth>& works, but leaves the first process running when I ctrl-c
06:51<andythenorth>then I have to ps and kill :P
06:51<@planetmaker>so... what do you mean with "chain"?
06:51<andythenorth>I could just user supervisord to run these :P
06:52<andythenorth>I'm just trying to avoid having two shells to run two foreground processes
06:52<@planetmaker>ehm... no :-)
06:52<andythenorth>there's an app to do it for me, but that's cheating
06:52<bolli>kill 'ps aux | grep processname' ?
06:52<andythenorth>I think I'll stick with ps + kill :P
06:52<andythenorth>bolli: yes
06:52<andythenorth>that's how I kill them more or less
06:53<andythenorth>wish my mac would stop correcting my spelling, it's annoying
06:53<andythenorth>planetmaker: 10.7 is significantly faster than 10.6.8 in many areas btw, despite no full-screen openttd :P
06:54<andythenorth>(those two points are not connected, but no full screen openttd is the only big problem so far)
06:54<andythenorth>oh, my nml is broken, but I'll figure that out
06:54<bolli>Really? I was talking to someone I know with it and he said he hadn't noticed a speed increase at all.
06:55<bolli>And doesn't know why he spent money upgrading for simply iMessenger :p
06:56<drac_boy>heh heh
06:56<andythenorth>ymmv :P
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>what does that mean, actually?
07:02<Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> then I have to ps and kill :P <-- you can just "fg" and then ctrl+c it
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>or maybe making them child processes of some sub-shell works, and you just kill the shell (including the child processes)
07:06<bolli>Hmm. This could be why I'm getting awful performance on my work server :|
07:06<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: sounds like supervisord ;)
07:06<bolli>Its running a named pipe between 2 processes thats causing an infinate loop :|
07:07<andythenorth>I could just use the supervisord config that's in the dir :P
07:07<andythenorth>but learning shell is good for me
07:07<andythenorth>they should teach shell in school :(
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>i learnt dos in school
07:11<szaman>command1 &
07:11<szaman>command2 &
07:11<szaman>wait %1; kill %2
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07:12<Eddi|zuHause>szaman: that doesn't work if 2 is killed first
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>and you can't ctrl+c it
07:13<@planetmaker>if they should teach Shell in school, they should also teach total exxon :-P
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>well, they also taught us BP in school :)
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>(meaning "borland pascal", obviously)
07:14<@planetmaker>:D Indeed, I was taught that there, too
07:14<@planetmaker>and... prolog. Oh my
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>no, i only learnt that in university
07:16<@Terkhen>I hated learning prolog
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>prolog was fun
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>but i'm regularly the only person in a room having that opinion :=)
07:20<@planetmaker>it's an interesting concept imho. But ... not usable :-P
07:39<bolli>Is there a way to give commands over the internet to openttd at all? :p
07:40*andythenorth needs to play the game perhaps
07:40<bolli>How? :P
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>in the easiest case: rcon <password> "<command>"
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>(the quotes are important!)
07:41<bolli>I mean, how to do in in a TCP request :P#
07:41<bolli>So It can be done by a script :p
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>oh, then you want the admin port
07:41<@planetmaker>write an admin script
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07:42<@planetmaker>are the two freely available *libraries*. Not scripts themselves
07:42<bolli>Thanks, I'll check them out :P
07:43<@planetmaker> is an example / dummy implementation using joan
07:43<@planetmaker>joan / grapes is java, libottdadmin python
07:44<bolli>thanks :)
07:45<@planetmaker>*if* you write something... please make it open-source :-)
07:45<@planetmaker>and yes, I shall be very interested in results
07:45<bolli>ok :)
07:46<@planetmaker>I'm quite sad about a lot of people not doing that... while making use of a game which wouldn't exist without this concept and attitude
07:51<dihedral>if you code java, before starting a new project, get in touch with dih :-P
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08:13<andythenorth>is it time for an MP game?
08:14<andythenorth>V453000: you haven't played NoCarGoal yet :D
08:14<andythenorth>nor has Terkhen
08:14<V453000>no I indeed havent :)
08:14*andythenorth wonders if there are enough to play co-opetive
08:14<andythenorth>V453000: you'll need a nightly ;)
08:15<V453000>where do I get that?
08:19<bolli>hmm. libottdamin looks almost unfinished :|
08:21<bolli>And do I need a username to download from openttdcoop?
08:22<V453000>definitely not
08:22<bolli>*clone from
08:22<V453000>what exactly do you need to do?
08:22<bolli>a mercurial clone of joan :p
08:23<Fremen>hm aren't there any good new builsing graphics?
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08:23<andythenorth>planetmaker: what nightly version are we on?
08:23<andythenorth>[for nighlty server]
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08:28<andythenorth>V453000: nightly server is on 24494
08:29<andythenorth>don't know how you'll get that, current nightly is 24498
08:29<V453000>ahh like nightly
08:29<V453000>thought it is some patched thing
08:29<V453000> nice
08:30<V453000>ah just wrong directory in the link
08:30<andythenorth>I'll make a map
08:30<V453000>hm it isnt
08:30<@planetmaker>andythenorth: the server is still 24494. We could update...
08:31<andythenorth>planetmaker: want to play? also Yexo Terkhen ?
08:31<@planetmaker>sorry not today
08:31<bolli> V45300?
08:32<V453000>yeah I found it manually as well, thanks though
08:49<@Terkhen>andythenorth: I'm working, so no :P
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08:59<andythenorth>not bank holiday in EU?
09:00<@planetmaker>hm, no? Why should it?
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09:01<@planetmaker>what's special about today?
09:04<andythenorth>standard bank holiday in UK, last weekend of Aug.
09:04<andythenorth>last one of the year :P
09:04<@planetmaker>I'd assume that Christmas is also a bank holiday? ;-)
09:05<bolli>public holdiay, not a bank holiday surely? :P
09:10<@planetmaker>hm, what's the difference?
09:11<bolli>Ala Wikipedia: Bank holidays are holidays when banks and many other businesses are closed for the day. Public holidays are holidays which have been observed through custom and practice.
09:22<@Terkhen>I never heard about bank holidays before
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09:26<@Belugas>bonjour :)
09:27<andythenorth>mai oui
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10:10<Fremen>so is 2cc (trains) working ok with eGRVTS (road/tram) ?
10:11<Fremen>guess i'll play a 150 years to see :)
10:13<NGC3982>Fremen: It works neat.
10:14<NGC3982>Though, the vehicle running costs may be a bit odd in relative to each other.
10:14<Fremen>anyone thought of insane far future vehicles yet for an newGRF? :)
10:14<NGC3982>afaik, NUTS have some that are pretty far out.
10:14<Fremen>ah yes I tlooked at that one, it's a bit too chaotic but maybe worth a try someday
10:15<andythenorth>so you don't want too insane then :)
10:15<Fremen>well for one I didn't understand all the types when I looked at it the first time :p
10:16<Fremen>but as I like to play for hundreds of years in 1 game I guess I need some insanity :p
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11:44<Fremen>aight, 2cc + eGRVTS + av8 + FISH should make things fun :)
11:52<@Terkhen>drop HEQS into the mix too
11:53<Fremen>checking :)
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11:58<Fremen>well looks that those are just for fun, and not too useful?
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12:11<Hirundo>Fremen: HEQS is quite useful, those vehicles work well for feeder services
12:14<Fremen>not counting the forklifts I assume? :p
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12:18<Hirundo>Some are more eyecandy-ish, or suitable for supplies deliveries with FIRS
12:18<Fremen>i see
12:18<Matulla>Hi all QUESTION if i bring goods to a nearby city airport stationname is different to the city Station name does that has the same effect ,as the Airport Tiles match the City THEN Having to unload to truck or train and drive to city center
12:18<Fremen>I'll wait with FIRS for now, it's too much at once :)
12:19<Fremen>btw UK Towns + TTRS + original buildings is a nice mix :)
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12:23<andythenorth>Fremen: try TAI on its own
12:23<andythenorth>the HEQS forklifts are dumb, I added them on request ;)
12:26<Fremen>so great to look into all the work that has been done for this game and find your suitable needs
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12:35<bolli>How does openttd cope with strange characters in identifiers?
12:35<bolli>will it cope with TÜVASAŞ?
12:37<@Terkhen>as long as you have loaded an appropiate font it should be fine
12:37<bolli>So its probably best not to include it in a GRF? :p
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12:42<Fremen>hm the train wagons in 2cc are half the size ot teh normal ones? so double cargo? o_O
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13:32<andythenorth>NoCargoGoal game later? :P
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13:33*andythenorth has the uncanny habit of summoning people :)
13:33<andythenorth>hello Zuu
13:34<Zuu>Hello andythenorth
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13:35<CaptObvious>I can't seem to find documentation on how to install newgrfs on a dedicated server with no graphical support
13:35<CaptObvious>any ideas?
13:36<CaptObvious>that's handy, thanks ¬.¬
13:36<Zuu>I have a new NoCarGoal version that I worked on yesterday. It includes a fix of the double counting and string updates.
13:36<bolli>is this a linux server? :P
13:36<Zuu>To clarify, that new version haven't yet been released.
13:36<CaptObvious>I mean where to, and what do I need to add to the config file to get it to use the newgrf for new games etc
13:36<CaptObvious>and yes
13:36<Zuu>But could be soonish.
13:36<bolli>you can also use Cyberduck if it suppors SCP :p
13:37<CaptObvious>I'm aware of how to get files onto a linux machine, thanks.
13:37<bolli>~/.openttd/newgrf ?
13:37<andythenorth>Zuu: \o/
13:37<andythenorth>I have to do some driving for a bit soon, but I might have time for a 1hr game later, if anyone else would
13:37<Zuu>bolli: This SCP? :-)
13:37<andythenorth>I want to play an MP game with HEQS buy costs reduced by 50%
13:37<andythenorth>way too many trains in the games we've been playing :P
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13:39<CaptObvious>do I leave them in the tarball or extract the .grf file?
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13:40<bolli>if they're from bananas,they go tarred into content_download/newgrf
13:41<bolli>easiest way to set it up is to do the same on your computer then just upload the whole file...
13:41<CaptObvious>I'm on a windows machine
13:41<CaptObvious>and the server's all set up and running, all that needs doing now is adding newgrfs
13:44<bolli>its still the same folder layout as on the windows machine :p
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r24499 /trunk/src/lang/welsh.txt:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: welsh - 7 changes by kazzie
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13:45<CaptObvious>so once the files are in content_download/newgrf/ I just start a new game and it uses them automatically?
13:46<bolli>should do :PP
13:49<CaptObvious>it didn't =/
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13:49<bolli>have you restarted ottd? :P
13:51<bolli>you left them as tar files?
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14:06<CaptObvious>bolli - yep
14:07<bolli>I have no idea then sorry...
14:07<CaptObvious>maybe file permissions, sec
14:09<CaptObvious>openttd@heimdall:~/.openttd/content_download/newgrf$ ls
14:09<CaptObvious>eGRVTS-1.0.tar.gz FISH_ship_set-0.9.2.tar.gz Reduced_Passenger_Payment-1.0.tar.gz UK_Renewal_Set-3.04.tar.gz
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14:12<CaptObvious>I don't need to activate them anywhere do I? do they need to go under the newgrfs section in openttd.cfg?
14:20<bolli>try last_grf_count?
14:20<CaptObvious>I activated them on my local client
14:21<CaptObvious>and it added lines to openttd.cfg
14:21<bolli>My openttd.cfg file hasn't got anything in its [newgrf] section...
14:21<CaptObvious>so I copied those lines to the server's .cfg and I'm waiting on it rebooting now, because for some reason the init.d script wasn't working to start the server
14:22<bolli>try running it as an executable rather than init.d
14:22<CaptObvious>the init.d script was working
14:22<frosch123>CaptObvious: easiest solution is generally to set up a savegame on your client, and transfer that one to the server
14:22<CaptObvious>but it stopped working before I started messing with newgrfs
14:23<CaptObvious>nope, no dice
14:23<CaptObvious>frosch123 - I'm wanting to avoid having to do that, since what happens when I need to start a new game on the server?
14:27<CaptObvious>wtf. it's removing the lines from the [newgrf] section when the server starts
14:27*bolli is failing at looking up how to get something to select liveries as different types of cargo
14:27<bolli>you're not loading a game each time are you?
14:28<CaptObvious>no, new map each time
14:28<frosch123>CaptObvious: if it is removing lines, then it cannot find the files
14:28<frosch123>maybe some / \ issue?
14:28<CaptObvious>...good point
14:29<bolli>you could also tried the console content download...
14:29<CaptObvious>I couldn't find how to do that anywhere
14:29<CaptObvious>I googled for it for about 20 mins
14:29<CaptObvious>it wasn't a \ / issue
14:30<bolli>content select all
14:30<bolli>content download
14:30<bolli>simples ;p
14:30<CaptObvious>select all? =/
14:30<bolli>type in content to get an output of how to use it :p
14:31<bolli>right. Anybody know how to make different liveries refittable?
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14:36<CaptObvious>great, it doesn't want to get the list of content
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14:43<CaptObvious>that's a no then
14:47<CaptObvious>ah, disabled ipv6 and all is grand
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15:05<CaptObvious>it works!
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15:11<CaptObvious>hmm new question
15:11<CaptObvious>when I'm entering a multiplayer game my nick is getting "#1" appended to it
15:12<CaptObvious>any ideas why?
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15:14<Zuu>CaptObvious: Is there another player with the same nick on that server?
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15:19<andythenorth>@calc 5*13
15:19<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 65
15:20<andythenorth>NoCarGoal v3, start in 20 mins or so? Go to bed at sensible time?
15:20<andythenorth>512^ map, 5 years, 1980 start, cheap HEQS, flat map, lots of rivers, lots of industry (default industry)
15:27<Rubidium>what is a sensible time?
15:27<Rubidium>and what version?
15:27<andythenorth>after you have finished playing an MP game of course :)
15:28<andythenorth>I have 24494, but could get 24498
15:28<andythenorth>5 years = in bed by 10pm if we start within 20 mins or so :P
15:28<andythenorth>(UK time)
15:28<Rubidium>that sounds reasonabe
15:29<andythenorth>¿ planetmaker: Yexo frosch123 Terkhen Zuu V453000 ^^
15:29<andythenorth>et al
15:29<frosch123>start the game, i might join later on
15:29<andythenorth>I'll make a ma
15:30<Zuu>Mind that if you upgrade to version 3, the difficulty for most cargos have doubled.
15:30<frosch123>if you want to keep the server, it should stay with r24494
15:30<andythenorth>5 years, what cargo goal?
15:30<Zuu>Eg. when we played with 25000 as goal, the actual goal was 12500.
15:30<andythenorth>that was 7 years?
15:31<frosch123>5 years, default industries, 25k (in v3)
15:31<Zuu>7 years was still correct
15:31<andythenorth>frosch123: 25k is ambitious :)
15:31<andythenorth>I'll make HEQS cheap
15:31<Zuu>25k in v3 is like 50k in v2.
15:31<frosch123>don'T buy expensive ships :p
15:32<@Terkhen>andythenorth: no, sorry :P
15:33<@Terkhen>I'm just going to read a few things and go to bed
15:33<Zuu>andythenorth: I'm working on a trivial patch that should make GS testing a tiny bit easier. :-)
15:34<Zuu>Not sure how many people you will get in your game.
15:35<Fremen>I still suck too hard in teh game to be part of anything :p
15:36<CaptObvious>Zuu - no
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15:37<Rubidium>r24494 is so ancient
15:41<andythenorth>ok I've got a save
15:41<andythenorth>how do I get it to the server?
15:42<frosch123>upload it somewhere
15:43<frosch123>does that use the new gs?
15:44<andythenorth>v3 yes
15:46<Rubidium>so... what rev should I downgrade to and which server is it running on and which team can I join (or is there only one team)
15:47*Rubidium has the 24499
15:48<frosch123>the server runs r24494 :)
15:48<frosch123>and i don't want to install it
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15:51<frosch123>so, who else wants to join #openttdcoop.nightly with r24494 :)
15:51<frosch123>server is up, and waiting for some more players to start
15:52<frosch123>25k of pax, oil and iron ore within 5 years
15:52<andythenorth>32 Iron Ore mines
15:52<andythenorth>28 Oil Wells
15:52<andythenorth>cheap HEQS
15:52<andythenorth>cheap ogfx + RVs
15:52<frosch123>well, no oil rigs yet
15:52<frosch123>no idea whether oil or iore is harder
15:52<andythenorth>ships are too expensive anyway :)
15:53<andythenorth>someone has to do PAX :P
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15:53<Rubidium>is it the nightingall server?
15:53<andythenorth>frosch123: going to wait until 21.00 to start I think :)
15:54*andythenorth just doing 3 chores
15:54<frosch123>Rubidium: yes
15:54<Rubidium>that has non-bananas NewGRFs
15:54<Rubidium>hmm, never mind
15:54<Rubidium>was I looking at an ipv6 timeout here?
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16:30<__ln__>hello from dublin
16:32<@Terkhen>hi dublin
16:34<__ln__>this city closes early
16:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: zuu * r24500 /trunk/src/goal_gui.cpp: -Fix: Don't show the global goals as company goals for spectators
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17:10<frosch123>Zuu: does it no longer show a summary at the end of the game?
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17:12<Zuu>It should do it, but apparently it is broken under some yet unknown conditions.
17:12<frosch123>i saw it in both the last two games
17:13<Zuu>I didn't see it in the first one.
17:13<frosch123>has it trouble with multiple companies?
17:13<Zuu>I don't think so. At least not on GS side.
17:15<Zuu>Unless there is a problem that the question don't show on clients that have received the pause CMD.
17:16<Zuu>But that would be strange as pause is a DoCommand and would cause the GS to sleep for the reminder of the current tick and not execute the GSGoal.Question untill next tick.
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17:27<@Terkhen>good night
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18:23<hotuhaocehu>i have a suggestion for russian translation
18:23<hotuhaocehu>and no account
18:23<hotuhaocehu>can i suggest it here
18:23<@Yexo>it'll get lost here
18:24<@Yexo>there might be a forum topic for the russian translation
18:24<@Yexo>if not, I think there are some russian forums, perhaps they have a thread related to the translation where you can post your suggestions
18:24<hotuhaocehu>i mean maybe there is a russian translator on the channel
18:24<hotuhaocehu>if not, then ok, i will register and ask for translator account by email
18:25<hotuhaocehu>russian translators, please PM
18:26<Zuu>Given the current time of day in Russia, I wouldn't expect too many responses on IRC at the moment.
18:26<@Yexo>that reminds me :p
18:26<@Yexo>good night all
18:26<Zuu>Yexo: me too :-)
18:26<Zuu>Night all
18:29<@planetmaker>hotuhaocehu: ask for becoming a translator. It's easy :-)
18:29<hotuhaocehu>will do
18:30<hotuhaocehu>i know, already sent email
18:31<@planetmaker>ok. I'm too tired now. I'll look at it hopefully tomorrow
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 28 00:00:49 2012