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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-09-03

---Logopened Mon Sep 03 00:00:34 2012
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03:18<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:08-!-TheDude is "TheDude" on #openttd @+#goulp
04:08<TheDude>morning
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04:11<TheDude>alwould anyone know how to add new cargos with town effect to be accessible with GS? (if I define e.g. such newgrf that valuables will have town effect)
04:11<TheDude>hi planetmaker
04:11<Knogle>oh, was just about to ask that :P
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04:20<NGC3982>In english: Doublechecking or Double checking?
04:24<@planetmaker>TheDude: NewGRFs can define the town_growth_effect for cargos
04:24<TheDude>yes, property 18
04:24<TheDude>and five possible Town effects
04:24<TheDude>but how does it work with GS?
04:24<@planetmaker>and GS can read that, of course http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSCargo.html
04:25<@planetmaker>and grow towns however they want
04:25<TheDude>wil it add e.g. the valuables to town window as mail, food ...
04:25<@planetmaker>yes
04:25<@planetmaker>or so I think
04:25<TheDude>so, Knogle
04:25<@planetmaker>if they're of the water or food type
04:26<@planetmaker>not sure about goods. Quite sure that nothing will be shown for pax and mail
04:26<TheDude>well, I made newgrf that makes valuables to have TE as goods
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04:27<TheDude>and when I check it with GS, there is no valuables in town window, but indeed, when I transport valuables to town, it is counted, but to the goods row
04:27<Knogle>but that replaces goods with diamonds, except it's still showing up as "goods" in town gui.
04:27<Knogle>I don't want it to replace something else.
04:28<TheDude>we are wondering, if this is feature, you know
04:29<TheDude>I would expect that if I define TE to some cargo, it will be shown in town window
04:30<@planetmaker>I would expect that, too
04:31<@planetmaker>For those town effects which mean that the cargo is needed for the town to grow
04:31<@planetmaker>I'm currently unsure what TE goods actually does
04:31<@planetmaker>I only know water and food :-)
04:32<TheDude>ok
04:32<Knogle>so it's not possible to make food, water, goods AND diamonds needed for a town to grow?
04:32<Knogle>because one of them would be replaced?
04:32<Knogle>or should be, anyway.
04:32<@planetmaker>of course it's possible, especially via GS.
04:32<Knogle>as it is now, it shows as "goods" in town gui, but diamonds counts as goods.
04:33<@planetmaker>Just monitor cargo deliveries and only grow if you got delievered of what you want
04:33<Knogle>well, the cargo monitor thing is still in trunk :/
04:33<@planetmaker>yes...?
04:34<Knogle>I wanted to make it work with 1.2.2 :P
04:35<@planetmaker>a nightly server might be surprisingly popular
04:35<TheDude>lol
04:35<Knogle>and with the cargo monitor, it wouldn't show up in the town GUI
04:35<TheDude>yes, for like 10 users who use trunk for normal play :D
04:36<@planetmaker>dih had one running for quite some time. It was well populated
04:37<Knogle>I don't see why you'd have to replace of the existing TE's, is it that hard to make a TE for each cargo type?
04:38<@planetmaker>in a GS you can at least easily handle each cargo differently... Not sure how well you can read the cargo labels
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04:40<KnogleAFK>well, it doesn't work well with SetCargoGoal, when there's only these labels: http://nogo.openttd.org/api/1.2.1/classGSCargo.html#bb93eb754dcd7b9e5623b18169f293b3
04:40-!-KnogleAFK is now known as Knogle
04:40<Knogle>or maybe I just don't get it.
04:40<@planetmaker>well, you can get the label
04:40<Knogle>All these labels are already in use.
04:40<@planetmaker>you know what a cargolabel is?
04:41<Knogle>TE_GOODS, TE_MAIL etc?
04:41<@planetmaker>nope
04:41<Knogle>as I said, I might just not get it.
04:41<@planetmaker>that's a towneffect
04:41<@planetmaker>a cargo property which tells _openttd_ to treat that cargo in some way special
04:41<@planetmaker>a cargo label is sort-of the cargo's unique 4-letter name
04:41<@Terkhen>with GS, isn't it possible to ignore town effects and do whatever you want woth each cargo?
04:41<@planetmaker>independent of newgrf
04:41<@Terkhen>with*
04:42<@planetmaker>Terkhen: I should think so, yes
04:42<@Terkhen>TE are so... old :P
04:42<Knogle>well, I use SetCargoGoal for mail, passengers, goods, water and food in a town, and want to add diamonds aswell, so it all shows up in the town gui
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04:43<Knogle>Terkhen: well, yes.. with the cargo monitor it should be.
04:43<Knogle>not sure how to add it to the town gui though
04:44<@planetmaker>Terkhen: seems that the town's S/GetCargoGoal uses the town effect ;-)
04:45<Knogle>yes, it does.
04:45<@Terkhen>hmm
04:45<Knogle>http://nogo.openttd.org/api/1.2.1/classGSTown.html#9c1bb45326c08171fe1fd7c8e2f70ec0
04:46<Knogle>why is there no 1.2.2 api btw? :P
04:46<@Terkhen>well, I guess you need some kind of abstraction between gs and newgrf
04:46<Knogle>it should be an easy task though :|
04:47<@planetmaker>hm, I think the doxygen for GSTown::SetCargoGoal for towneffect_id is a bit wrong
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04:47<@planetmaker>Knogle: newgrf implies "not easy"
04:47<Knogle>that made no sense to me :P
04:48<Knogle>planetmaker: you were the one that stated is as "simple" on the forum :P
04:48<@planetmaker>Knogle: the whole API description as you linked it is automatically generated. From source code comments. Via doxygen
04:48<Knogle>ah
04:48<TheDude>maybe we should wait for Alberth, he has more insight into GS
04:48<@planetmaker>Zuu has
04:48<Knogle>yeah, Zuu helped me a lot in the past.
04:49<TheDude>excellent
04:49<@planetmaker>alberth is not the GS/AI guy
04:49<TheDude>Zuu is? ok, I didnt know that
04:49<Knogle>also TrueBrain I think?
04:49<@planetmaker>yes. And yexo
04:49<@planetmaker>but... be kind and ask without too many highlights :-)
04:49<Knogle>k, gotta ask Zuu or TrueBrain then.
04:50<Knogle>thanks
04:50<@planetmaker>you now highlighted T_B several times without question :D
04:50<@planetmaker>he's know to be alergic to that ;-)
04:51<Knogle>well, I wanted to wait till he's around :P
04:53<@planetmaker>Knogle: and... it really would help, if the talk would not be theoretical... but if we had a working script which we can talk about. And possibly devise ways then to extend the API with what's missing
04:54<@planetmaker>It then, of course, is not like "oh, only we have this script on our server", but it will sure help us in extending the API
04:54<@planetmaker>it's like no fun working with nothing at hand
04:54<@planetmaker>no script, no use cases, very slow api development
04:55<Knogle>hm
04:55<@planetmaker>as we then simply do not know what is missing and how it could be sensibly extended
04:55<@planetmaker>development needs tests. Not just "I need"
04:55<@planetmaker>I can ensure you that a "with us" will work much more fruitful
04:56<Knogle>of course
04:56<Knogle>but I need to know if I'm actually doing it right first.
04:56<@planetmaker>like... I dare say FIRS got a lot of ponies into trunk. As andy works with us. Works publicly...
04:57<@planetmaker>Knogle: we can only tell that when we really know what you do ;-)
04:57<Knogle>I'll make an example script then :)
04:58<@planetmaker>you know, it's fun for us, if *we* also see the result of *our* work
04:58<Knogle>of course :)
04:58<@planetmaker>No scripts publicly available mean that we have no results whatsoever. Very boring. And not motivating
04:58<Knogle>the final script will be publicly available, once it's working right :P
04:59<TheDude>Knogle, that would mean it will be never :D
04:59<TheDude>planetmaker has got a point in that
05:00<Knogle>there's no reason to make a non-working script publicly available
05:00<Knogle>it will only confuse people trying to download it.
05:01<Knogle>not on bananas anyway, the forum perhaps ;)
05:01<@planetmaker>non-working scripts on bananas make no sense, yes.
05:02<Knogle>exactly my point
05:02<@Terkhen>it's nice to hear about progress :)
05:02<@planetmaker>But development discussions on forums should include actual code to talk about
05:02<Knogle>yup
05:02<@planetmaker>and tbh, people then can try it. And give feedback
05:02<Knogle>yeah
05:03<@planetmaker>like we played half of the last evenings a nocargoal game.... very much fun
05:03<Knogle>perhaps the forum is the right place to continue this
05:04<@planetmaker>certainly would be, yes
05:04<@planetmaker>forum + irc work well when combined :-)
05:04<@Terkhen>IRC is good for short questions, as long as everyone is online at the moment you want to ask :P
05:04<Knogle>thanks for all your help so far, been really helpful :)
05:05<@planetmaker>my pleasure
05:05<@planetmaker>and you might indeed think about a nightly server. It would be a real testcase. And could always test the new stuff as it becomes available ;-)
05:06<@planetmaker>surely won't be as populated as the stable servers, no doubt. But you'll also have a big time advanatage when 1.3 comes out ;-)
05:09<@Terkhen>I'm available for testing :P
05:10<@planetmaker>:-) /me, too
05:24<TheDude>hm, I plan to develop CB GS script in trunk, ebcause of the cargomonitor, so mabe I would launch a server
05:24<TheDude>if you think it will get populated, why not give it a try
05:26<TheDude>the GS features which are now only in trink will get to stable with next release or in next branch?
05:34<@Terkhen>1.3
05:35<@Terkhen>new releases of stables usually never get new features, only fixes
05:37<@Terkhen>WRT to the server, you can always announce a testing game here at irc and/or at the forums, you should get enough players and get feedback directly
05:37<@Terkhen>once that you change your code taking into account that feedback, you can repeat the process
05:38<@Terkhen>IMO it is more likely to get comments this way
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05:40<TheDude>I believe it is
05:53<TheDude>but it would be great to have more GS features available in stable sooned than in next branch
06:00<@Terkhen>features are not moved to stable to keep it "stable"
06:01<@Terkhen>before being in a stable version, new features grt testing in nightlies, betas and RCs
06:03<@Terkhen>so IMHO the best option is to get more testing for GS now, which should result in fixes and new features
06:03<@Terkhen>before the future new stable hits beta
06:04<@Terkhen>that way, users of the next stable will get a more complete and polished experience
06:04<TheDude>dont be deluded, I understand that
06:05<TheDude>but waiting for next branch to get wished (and already made) features is ... like wating to the christmas presents
06:06<V453000>play trunk then? :D
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06:07<drac_boy>hi
06:07<V453000>elo
06:07<drac_boy>how're you? :p
06:07<V453000>meh
06:11<drac_boy>what doing then anyway?
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06:19<V453000>im trying to set up some wordpress page but so far it seems more like a joke than reality
06:19<drac_boy>:p
06:20<V453000>seriously I get list of templates and I get ALL of them except the one I need
06:24<@Terkhen>TheDude: those features are not complete, they lack testing :P
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06:25<@Terkhen>there is alwaus the option to use tje nightlies, enjoy those features now and help with the testing
06:25<drac_boy>features? :/
06:25<TheDude>blabla, now you speak like Knogle
06:25<drac_boy>oh game features...nevermind
06:25<TheDude>I said I will test it under trunk
06:25<@Terkhen>ok :)
06:25<TheDude>but this could take a month, or two, and then long waitng till april
06:26<Eddi|zuHause><V453000> play trunk then? :D <-- better than "play drunk", i suppose :)
06:27<V453000>oh hell no!
06:27<V453000>:)
06:27<V453000>depends on the level of drunk I guess
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06:30<NGC3982>Heh, a friend of mine is determined to "fix the one-core issue with OpenTTD"
06:30<NGC3982>He have never played the game.
06:30<V453000>:D
06:33<__ln__>what is the one-core issue?
06:37<@planetmaker>NGC3982: does he have some decent algorithmic knowledge?
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06:58<NGC3982>No, none at all. That is the funny part.
06:59<NGC3982>I can't blame his enthusiasm, but i think.. he has a few years of studying ahead.
06:59<NGC3982>__ln__: It's not really an issue if you ask me. But as far as i know, OpenTTD still works on one CPU core.
07:04<@Terkhen>it is an issue with regard to adding more CPU intensive features
07:05<NGC3982>I see.
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07:33<drac_boy>hi FLHerne been quite some time :p
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09:22<V453000>the change landscape cheat is gone? :d
09:22<@planetmaker>yes
09:22<@planetmaker>desync
09:24<V453000>hm :|
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09:25<@planetmaker>what's the use case anyway?
09:27<V453000>cheating the generator :>
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11:28<Snail>hi all
11:33<@Terkhen>hi Snail and frosch123
11:33<Snail>I have a question for the developers
11:34<Snail>so far we have a function that checks the userbits' pattern from a certain vehicle to the end of the consist, doing the OR function
11:34<Snail>would it be possible to have another function that *only* checks the userbit pattern *of a single vehicle*?
11:35<Snail>without ORing through the rest of the consist...
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't that have the same problem as all other properties that can be changed via cb36?
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11:46<Hirundo>Does it need to be handled via the userbits, instead of checking the ID of that single vehicle?
11:46<Snail>yes it does have to be handled through userbits
11:47<Snail>Eddi|zuHause: what problem?
11:47<Snail>if we already have a function that checks the userbits for all the vehicles in a consist, I can't see how a function that only checks one vehicle's userbits may introduce a new problem
11:47<Snail>it would just be a subset of it
11:49<Snail>Hirundo: I'm doing this to check a determined event of a random draw for a specific wagon in a consist, so all the IDs are the same. This is why I need to access the userbit
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>Snail: you cannot access any properties through var61 in cb36
11:50<Snail>Eddi|zuHause: I would not do it through cb36
11:50<Snail>I would just change the vehicle's graphics or recoloring as a result of this check
11:50<Hirundo>Could you please explain what you actually want to achieve?
11:50<Snail>ok
11:50<Hirundo>Change gfx depending on?
11:51<Snail>let's say my wagons can have two graphics, at random
11:51<Snail>and the vehicles have the same ID
11:52<Snail>now, I want to do push-pull in this consist, so each wagon needs to access the result of the random draw of the corresponding wagon they need to swap graphics with
11:53<Snail>the random draw would lead the userbit pattern of each wagon: I'd set either bit0 or bit1 with equal probability
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11:53<Hirundo>Why not get the random bits of that wagon via var 61 + 5F?
11:53<Snail>bit0 leads to "green" graphics, bit1 leads to "red" graphics
11:53<Hirundo>I see no reason to touch the userbits here
11:54-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd
11:54<Snail>what does var 5F do exactly? (I'm too used to m4nfo naming...)
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>Hirundo: the docs of var61 say that 5f is not available
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>"Currently only vehicle specific variables listed on this page plus global variable 25 are accessible through var 61. Esp. variable 5F is currently not supported."
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>i don't immediately see an 80+ variable for the userbits
11:57-!-Pinkbeast [damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk] has joined #openttd
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, randomaction2 has an individual method of accessing other vehicles independent of var61
11:58<Hirundo>Alternatively, randomaction2 type 84 should do the trick
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>i use that in CETS to synchronize the 3 vehicle parts
11:58-!-Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, gtg
11:59-!-Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
12:00<Snail>back, computer crashed
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>i gtg
12:00<Hirundo>Snail: [17:58] <Hirundo> Alternatively, randomaction2 type 84 should do the trick
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12:03<Snail>I see, I'm reading the documentation now... "Use 84 to randomize the vehicle based on any vehicle in the consist"
12:05<Hirundo>Note that you should not try to rerandomize that way
12:06<Snail>sounds useful, I'll try to do it this way! thanks
12:08<Snail>why?
12:10<Hirundo>Because it doesn't work
12:11<Hirundo>From spec page: "Do not specify any triggers for rerandomisation when accessing random bits of other vehicles (via type 83 or 84), it will not do what you think."
12:11<Snail>ok...
12:11<Snail>well, I'm only thinking about randomizing it once, i.e. when the vehicle is bought
12:12<Hirundo>The random bits are already random when the vehicle is bought
12:12<Hirundo>They will not become any 'more random' by rerandomizing
12:14<Snail>yeah, well I mean I wouldn't include any more triggers
12:15<Snail>I just found what you're talking about, in the documentation. Yep I'm not planning to use triggers for this specific aim
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13:41<frosch123>hi zuu :)
13:42-!-Elmux [~Elmux@77-23-51-199-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd
13:42<frosch123>oh, you joined 30 minutes ago :o
13:43<Zuu>Hello frosch123 :-)
13:43<frosch123>i managed to finish my first gs yesterday :)
13:44<Zuu>nice
13:44<frosch123>turned out i was lucky and that you can somewhat edit goals by removing them and readdnig
13:44<frosch123>the will get the same id, and appear in the same spot in the gui
13:44<frosch123>though that only works if the number of goals stays the same
13:44<Zuu>Making the first version is usually quite quick. Adding all "nice to have" features take more time :-)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r24510 /trunk/src/lang/ (korean.txt latvian.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by telk5093
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: latvian - 11 changes by Parastais
13:45<frosch123>oh, i think i already have them :p
13:45<frosch123>though i am worried that it might require a longer timespan to play
13:45<Zuu>Oh, I though you had to remove all and then add them back in order to have them stay in order.
13:46<frosch123>it seems to use the first free id when creating a goal
13:46<frosch123>so, if i only remove goals to readd them, they stay in order
13:46<Rubidium>all pools do that
13:46<frosch123>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/siliconvalley/repository/entry/main.nut#L467
13:47<frosch123>compare old with new value, remove old goal, readd goal with new values
13:47<frosch123>but it would be nice to have real edit goal commands
13:48<frosch123>or even a generic "set completion state" command
13:48<frosch123>to set a percentage or so
13:51<Zuu>Being able to set goal completion state including a DONE state, is something that I have in a mental plan.
13:51<Zuu>The nice thing about having goals that can be marked as DONE is that you could register other events to depend on a goal then.
13:51<frosch123>what kind of events?
13:51<Zuu>The not so nice thing about that approach with the API is that AIs will have harder to understand such things.
13:52<frosch123>i mean the gs knows which goals it set to complete
13:52<Zuu>Event is maybe not the right word. But you could tie town growth restrictions to a goal to have something more generic that still is easier to add some automatic GUI.
13:57<Zuu>If we instead extend GSTown::SetCargoGoal to also work with cargo IDs as well as possible some other things that we think people will use, then its a more clear protocol for AIs to understand. Creating a AI API that works with that should be fairly straight forward.
13:59<Zuu>That doesn't contradict allowing to set goals as DONE, but AI support is an argument against a too generic GS API where it would be hard for an AI to figure out the goals.
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14:23<andythenorth>Terkhen: hi ho
14:23<@Terkhen>hi andythenorth
14:24<andythenorth>so why are industries hard for new scenario format? :)
14:25<frosch123>roads are hard as well :p
14:25<frosch123>btw. anyone up for a testgame of silicon valley?
14:26<andythenorth>what is it? :o
14:27<@Terkhen>andythenorth: as I said, it is hard to describe industry properties in a newgrf and climate agnostic way
14:27<@Terkhen>frosch123: I'm in, as long as you explain what it does first :P
14:27<frosch123>:p
14:27<frosch123>you are assigned a small town
14:27<frosch123>with limited space
14:27<frosch123>and a secondary cargo
14:27<andythenorth>Terkhen: so 'hard' must break down into specific problems....which we can solve ;)
14:27<frosch123>you have some years to fund some industries to produce that cargo, and push them to a few 1000 output per quarter
14:28-!-Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd
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14:28<frosch123>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/siliconvalley <- no idea, whether the readme is better
14:28<frosch123>it also has a intro text, but that does not quite work in multiplayer, as everyone would have to join the company at the same time
14:28<frosch123>of founding
14:29<andythenorth>lo Alberth
14:29<andythenorth>frosch123: any idea how long it takes to play?
14:29<@Alberth>hi andy, frosch
14:29<frosch123>i fear longer than nocargoal
14:29<andythenorth>I am up for it, but I need to sleep by 10pm UK
14:29<@Terkhen>hi Alberth
14:29<andythenorth>also I have to test one of our large apps in IE 7 :(
14:29<@Terkhen>I also should go to sleep soon, maybe I should have dinner early to be ready for an early game? :P
14:30<frosch123>sounds more like tomorrow :p
14:30<@Terkhen>I'll be busy tomorrow, the missing stuff for my raspberry pi has arrived :)
14:30<andythenorth>frosch123: I'll play anyway
14:31<andythenorth>if you can round up others
14:31<andythenorth>is it co-opetititve? or collaborative?
14:31<@Alberth>hi Terkhen
14:31<frosch123>as you like, but if you go for the goal alone it will take even longer
14:31<andythenorth>collaborative
14:31<andythenorth>done deal
14:31<andythenorth>make a list of what I need?
14:32<andythenorth>if you include HEQS, please set buy costs to 1/4
14:32<andythenorth>I don't recommend FIRS for this :P
14:33<@Terkhen>OpenGFX+ Industries with customized chains? :P
14:33<frosch123>no idea what ogfx+industries does
14:34<@Terkhen>you can select any set of existing standard industry chains (excluding toyland) in any climate (excluding toyland)
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14:37<@Alberth>toyland feels very much out in the cold :(
14:38<@Terkhen>our reasoning was that probably no one wants to mix standard and toyland industries :P
14:40<frosch123>hmm, not sure whether it loaded the right game
14:41<frosch123>oh, i did not yet joined a company
14:41<frosch123>so yeah, goals are available
14:41<frosch123>Alberth: Terkhen: andythenorth: planetmaker: Zuu: if you wanna join :)
14:43<@Terkhen>brb, I'll have dinner first :)
15:00<TheDude>hello there
15:01<TheDude>so I am testing some GS things, cargomonitor in trunk
15:01<TheDude>very promising indeed
15:01-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host218-143-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
15:01<Wolf01>evenink
15:02<TheDude>would anyone please know how exactly "GSCargoMonitor.GetTownPickupAmount" function works?
15:05<andythenorth>Alberth might :)
15:06<andythenorth>or Zuu
15:06<andythenorth>but they're playing a game right now
15:06<@Alberth>what's the problem?
15:06<TheDude>allright
15:06<@Alberth>evenink Wolf01
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15:06<TheDude>I can ask later, if you are busy
15:06<TheDude>but since you answered :-)
15:06<TheDude>I have this: local amount = GSCargoMonitor.GetTownPickupAmount(companyid, 10, idtown, true);
15:07<TheDude>which I believe should monitor valuables in temperate
15:07<@Alberth>could be, I don't know what cargo 10 is :)
15:07<TheDude>but log says amount is 0 all the time
15:07<@Alberth>you have to deliver the cargo
15:07<TheDude>it is, but am I using this correctly?
15:07<TheDude>of course I deliver cargo
15:08<@Alberth>close enough to the town?
15:08<TheDude>wow, I am sorry, actually it shows something now :-)
15:08<Zuu>TheDude: Have you checked GSCargo.GetCalgoLabel(10)?
15:08<TheDude>well, how close shoud it be?
15:09<TheDude>yes, I chekced it
15:09<TheDude>it fits
15:09<TheDude>ok, it shows some non zero amount now
15:09<Zuu>I would rather loop through GSCargoList until I find the correct label and use the ID of that than hard coding a cargo ID.
15:09<TheDude>yy, I did this foreach (cargo, _ in cargolist) {
15:09<Zuu>good
15:09<TheDude>but I wonder why it sorst ID from max to min
15:10<TheDude>like 10, 9, 8, ...
15:10<Zuu>You can change the sort order of cargolist if you wish.
15:10<TheDude>how can I do that?
15:10<@Alberth>pickup is not registered until delivery, and then not until you query the value again
15:10<Zuu>From my undestanding the sort order if not specified by GS/AI is undefined.
15:10<TheDude>Sort(GSList.SORT_BY_VALUE) ?
15:10<Zuu>yep
15:10<TheDude>ok
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15:11<Zuu>Sort(GSList.SORT_BY_VALUE, GSList.SORT_ASCENDING) (or descending)
15:11<Zuu>unless you want to try to remember which order that is true and false.
15:11<TheDude>Alberth, what does it mean, pick up is not registered until delivery?
15:12<@Alberth>exactly that
15:12<TheDude>I admit I have not understood differences between both monitors
15:12<@Alberth>at final delivery, the pickup is registered
15:12<TheDude>when cargo is paid for?
15:12<@Alberth>yep, at final payment
15:13<TheDude>so I pickup cargo, and not until it is delivered and paid for, monitor will return zero
15:13<@Alberth>indeed, to prevent you getting credit for cargo you never deliver
15:13<@Alberth>or bring back to the station to pick it up again
15:14<TheDude>and DeliveryAmount is not the same? it suggets that it is registered after delivery too
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15:14<@Alberth>pickupamount is about the source town/industry, deliveryamount is about the town/industry you bring it to
15:15<@Alberth>ie coal pickup is at a mine, and delivery is at a power plant
15:15<TheDude>ok, so when I only want to register final deliveries, deliveryamount is enough, right?
15:15-!-drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable133.8-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
15:15<@Alberth>yes, then you can monitor what people bring to some place
15:16<drac_boy>hi
15:16<@Alberth>ih
15:16<TheDude>and pickup is used when I want to monitor how much I tak from coal mine for example, great, thanks for explanations
15:17<@Alberth>yep
15:17<TheDude>also I was curious, what string symbols I can use? {NUM} works fine, but I had problems with {COMMA} and {CARGO}
15:17<@Alberth>Zuu had a fight with that too, I don't know the result
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15:20<TheDude>ok
15:20<TheDude>Zuu, do string symbols like {COMMA} and {CARGO} work with GSText?
15:21<Zuu>yes
15:21<Zuu>GSText(GSText.STR_MY_STRING, cargo_id, company_id, my_value)
15:21<Zuu>where cargo_id, company_id and my_value are parameters for the string.
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15:22<Zuu>Or if you want you can do just GSText(GSText.STR_MY_STRING) and then call AddParam on the GSText instance. For example if you have a list of parametars that you can send using a for loop.
15:23<TheDude>company_id for {cARGO}?
15:24<Zuu>no but for {COMPANY}
15:24<Zuu>{CARGO} does not exist anymore
15:24<TheDude>maybe {CARGO_SHORT}
15:24<frosch123>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/siliconvalley/repository/entry/lang/english.txt <- working example of CARGO_LONG and CARGO_LIST
15:25<TheDude>and what is the cargo_id in {COMPANY} for?
15:25<Zuu>So that OpenTTD know which company id to grab the company name of.
15:25<Zuu>IIRC {CARGO_SHORT} works
15:26<Zuu>It took me 1-2 hours to debug why {CARGO} did not work until I finally figured out that that code doesn't exist in OpenTTD :-p
15:26<Zuu>At least not in current OpenTTD versions.
15:27<Zuu>TheDude: http://wiki.openttd.org/FormatOfLangfiles
15:27<Zuu>It may be a bit outdated on for example {CARGO}, but it gives an explanation what most {}-parameters show.
15:28<Zuu>Generally they expect the ID of the object that it shows the name of.
15:30<TheDude>I was probably doing the same mistake :)
15:30<frosch123>CARGO_LONG and short take a cargo id and an amount
15:30<frosch123>CARGO_LIST takes a bitmask of cargoids
15:31<TheDude>it is working like a charm now
15:32<TheDude>thank you for your advisory
15:32<TheDude>now, I deserve some dinner
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15:34<NGC3982>Evening, goats and people.
15:34<drac_boy>heh hi NGC3982
15:34<drac_boy>you forgot one more :p
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15:46<Kylie>question
15:47<drac_boy>hm?
15:47<Kylie>without cheating or founding a new power plant i wonder how i can funnel all coal to a single power plant. probably can't though, not without spending too much money.
15:48<Kylie>this map, the power plants are all nimby-er oriented
15:48<drac_boy>no idea sorry heh
15:48<Kylie>same
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15:51<@Alberth>you cannot, if you have enough coal mines; there is an upper limit on how much cargo you cen feed to an industry
15:51-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1ACE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:53<ExodusS>I'm looking for zBase textures.. Anybody has zbase-r162.zip ?
16:00<@Terkhen>ExodusS: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/zbase/repository <-- this should be better if you are looking for specific parts of zbase
16:00<@Terkhen>just mind the GPL license :)
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16:01<ExodusS>I'm looking for version for 1.2.2
16:01<ExodusS>I found something on server but I can't download it
16:02<@Terkhen>hmm
16:02<@Terkhen>so you are looking for a specific version of zbase
16:02<@Terkhen>sadly the page linked at the project only seems to have latest and some old versions: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/zbuild/push/LATEST/
16:04<ExodusS>You can download zbase-r162.zip from this link?
16:06<@Terkhen>did you click on it?
16:06<ExodusS>Yes
16:06<@Terkhen>click on the zbase-r162.zip link in that website
16:07<ExodusS>It terminates my download
16:08<ExodusS>I tried few times
16:10<@Terkhen>ExodusS: planetmaker should know why that is happening, let's wait until he is around
16:10<@Terkhen>and no, I have not used 32bpp graphics yet, let's keep conversation here so everyone can read it and help you
16:11<ExodusS>But... planetmaker is online.
16:12<@Terkhen>being online does not mean that he is at the keyboard :)
16:13<@Terkhen>he is one of the managers of the site, he should know what is happening
16:13<@Terkhen>personally I have no idea
16:13<ExodusS>So I'm waiting..
16:22-!-keoz [~keikoz@142.90.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd
16:38<ExodusS>..and waitin'..
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16:42<NGC3982>I think i need some help with entry-exit signals.
16:42<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/KIsIP.png
16:42<NGC3982>The signal placed on the incoming rail to the right is an exit signal
16:42<NGC3982>The entry signal is placed on the entry rail, upper left.
16:43<NGC3982>Since the two signals just behind the station are red, shouldnt the exit signal be red?
16:45<drac_boy>NGC3982 no idea about these weird signals but I had to ask still .. which trainset is that? looks like cape gauge so guessing something to do with africa or some of australia?
16:45<NGC3982>It's a mix of 2cc and NUTS.
16:45<drac_boy>hmm wonder why you're doing that but heh not going ask :P
16:48*ExodusS slaps planetmaker: "Wake up!"
16:49<Kylie>hmm. bus networks require a lot of buses to fulfill the demand. wow.
16:50<drac_boy>btw just wondering about it..how many different forums are there so far? (and I mean ones thats actually visited daily anyhow) I know of tt-forums and tt-de
16:50<Kylie>this one going from north to south apparently needs 62 buses
16:51<Kylie>or does it actually need 62 buses?
16:51<Kylie>how can i check on that?
16:51<drac_boy>kylie whats the population of the towns you're trying to service?
16:51<Kylie>thiss one is 4787 its in one town
16:51<drac_boy>kylie and is it just one or more stops in that one town?
16:51<Kylie>3 stops
16:52<drac_boy>kylie hmm what year are you in anyway?
16:52<Kylie>1953
16:53<drac_boy>1953 ... well at that kind of town sizes its probably best to auger it with some trains and/or trams
16:53<drac_boy>thats the only thing I can say myself sorry ;)
16:53<Kylie>how do i add a tram?
16:53<drac_boy>kylie..hmm I should ask..you using any grfs or just the default vehicles?
16:53<Kylie>should i add a grf?
16:54<drac_boy>kylie oh...in that case you're stuck with just trains alone then
16:54<Kylie>ok, in future what grfs do i add when i make a new game?
16:55<drac_boy>kylie well you'll have to decide for yourself along the many ones tbh .. but for me on temperate maps I pretty much have dbsetxl+germanrv+russiaplanes or the set of japan* grfs
16:55<Kylie>I'm referring to tram grfs
16:55<Kylie>THAT
16:55<drac_boy>trams....try HEQS and maybe another one or two more
16:56<Kylie>k thaanks
16:56<drac_boy>HEQS is part trams and part road vehicles tho mind you
16:56*Kylie remembers
16:57<NGC3982>Crap.
16:57<NGC3982>I hate not understanding this.
16:58<drac_boy>kylie truthfully any sort of road vehicles (even if not from the original) are best for light and modest traffics .. when it starts to get heavy (eg lets say 100 passengers each few days) you are so much better off with adding in something else whether its rails on street (tram) or seperate rails with shared stations (trains)
16:58<drac_boy>thats just from my own view tho
17:00<drac_boy>sorry NGC3982? :-s
17:03<NGC3982>:<
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17:05<drac_boy>hey eddi you know anything about ottd signals? ;)
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17:08<@Terkhen>good night
17:09<drac_boy>bye Terkhen
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17:13<Eddi|zuHause>i know lots of things
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>and nothing at the same time
17:14<drac_boy>heh...well maybe NGC3982 could use something from you? dunno :->
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>ihave not followed the discussion
17:17<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: It's nothing. Im having trouble with understanding the PBS wiki entries.
17:17<NGC3982>But it's nothing a few read-troughs wont solve, i guess.
17:19<@Alberth>euhm, place a signal at a place where a train can safely stop?
17:21<NGC3982>Im trying to understand PBS, but im not really succeding.
17:35<@Alberth>what does not work?
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17:38<@Alberth>if you turn on track reservation, you can actually se what it does :)
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18:29<Wolf01>'night
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20:50<player>hi
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 04 00:00:35 2012