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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-09-12

---Logopened Wed Sep 12 00:00:48 2012
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00:29<Supercheese>Sheesh, the devzone is really, really slow for me
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00:44<Supercheese>Hmm, I don't understand how this C preprocessor is supposed to work
00:46<Supercheese>Oh perhaps I need backslashes
00:46<Supercheese>at ends of lines
00:49<Supercheese>Nope, dunno how to work this
00:50<Supercheese>Wonder if anyone build a GUI for a C preprocessor... :P
00:53<Supercheese>I get how #include works, but not #define
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01:16<Supercheese>@seen Pikka
01:16<@DorpsGek>Supercheese: Pikka was last seen in #openttd 16 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 41 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <Pikka> hello Alberth
01:16<Supercheese>dang, that is a long time
01:22<Supercheese>Oh, I should probably add variable running costs, like in UKRS
01:23<Supercheese>sheesh, code bloating to enormity, time to #include stuff
01:43<Supercheese>much better
01:44<Supercheese>still wish I could figure out this #define wizardry though
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02:27<Supercheese>Hmm, maybe I won't add variable running costs
02:28<Supercheese>anyone really like/dislike that feature from UKRS? or are ambivalent?
02:31*fjb likes it.
02:31<Supercheese>Yeah, I do to, I should at least try first :P
02:31*Supercheese is sleepy
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02:54<Supercheese>Too sleepy, can't keep working
02:54<Supercheese>looks like release won't happen today
02:54<__ln__>too early to say that before 10am
02:54<Supercheese>It's 5 mins to midnight here
02:57<Supercheese>night all
02:57<Bad_Brett>good morning :)
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02:57<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:01<Bad_Brett>i was wondering... is there any way to change the newspaper text that shows a new vehicle becomes available... since I don't intend to use aircrafts, I was wondering if I could use the notices for new aircrafts as some kind of economic reports, such as "Recession expected" and then increase the running cost of all vehicles for a couple of years
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03:01<__ln__>Bad_Brett: the plural of aircraft is aircraft
03:02<NGC3982>One aircraft, a bunch of aircraft?
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03:03<NGC3982>That sounds non-intuitive at first glance.
03:03<__ln__>not more than one sheep, twenty sheep
03:05<NGC3982>OR sheeplets.
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03:07<Bad_Brett>"The nonstandard plural form aircrafts is also in use among both non-native speakers of English and those who work in the aviation industry."
03:07<Bad_Brett>so it seems to be a rather common missunderstanding
03:07<NGC3982>The word simply sounds like it's plural form should be used like that.
03:09<Bad_Brett>even the airlines in my country write "aircrafts"...
03:09<NGC3982>I was just abut to make a reference to the swedish "plurality"
03:09<NGC3982>Where rules of any kind no longer apply, for some reason.
03:10<Bad_Brett>example? :)
03:10<NGC3982>Apelsin > apelsiner, sko > skor, pakethållare > pakethållare
03:11<@Terkhen>Bad_Brett: you can use GS to display news, but I don't know if they can modify costs
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03:13<Bad_Brett>@Terkhen: I was thinking of doing that with switch blocks for my vehicles... I just thought it would be nice if I could inform the player about the new economic situation :)
03:13<@Terkhen>also, IIRC some old setting activated recession-like events
03:14<Bad_Brett>Ok cool... I'll try to look it up
03:15<@Terkhen>I don't think that changing costs for all vehicles at the same time is possible in newgrf... displaying news certainly isn't
03:16<@Terkhen>that kind of events fall in the game script domain
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03:20<Bad_Brett>can't I change the running_cost_factor depending on the current year? Because otherwise I'll just write an algorithm that changes this property on all my vehicles... of course it won't work if you combine it with other newgrfs
03:24<Bad_Brett>NGC3982: I don't get it... aren't those rather logical? most words that end with "are" have the same plural form, such as "tändare", "pundare", "snickare"... and most words that end with "in" seem to end with -er such as "mandarin, kretin, maskin, pingvin"...
03:26<NGC3982>Yes, that is the usual rules
03:28<NGC3982>But a fair bit of all the formations are irregular
03:28<NGC3982>gås > gäss, dotter > döttrar, bok > böcker
03:28<NGC3982>And so on.
03:29<Bad_Brett>unlike goose > geese :)
03:51<@Terkhen>Bad_Brett: you can change it on a predefined, hardcoded year, but I don't know any way of choosing a random year and then using the same random value for different vehicle types
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03:55<Bad_Brett>Since I'm intending to a history based scenario, I think it might work to use predefined years... it's mostly about adding some extra spice to the game so that it doesn't become too easy and boring after the first 5 years
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04:23<@Terkhen>Bad_Brett: you should check game scripts then :)
04:23<Eddi|zuHause>Bad_Brett: all this history stuff may be usefull for a scenario/gamescript combination
04:23<Eddi|zuHause>so it should probably be kept out of the GRF
04:23<@Terkhen>IIRC there is a scenario/GS bundle already
04:25<Eddi|zuHause>the scenario would include the GRF and the GameScript, but the GRF could also be used standalone. whether the GameScript would be usable standalone is for you to decide when writing it.
04:27<@Terkhen>you can use the GS to define random events and goals associated specifically to your scenario
04:33*NGC3982 longs for a drive-trough depot.
04:33<@peter1138>NGC3982, for cattle?
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04:58<NGC3982>For anything.
04:58<NGC3982>Im sure there is a good reason for it. But for some reason, the depots feel under-developed.
04:59<NGC3982>In a fun-things-i-usually-find-in-NewGRF kind of way.
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04:59<@peter1138>Fancy a project?
05:01<NGC3982>Can depots be altered just as station graphic NewGRF's?
05:01<@peter1138>They're part of the rail type graphics, IIRC.
05:01<NGC3982>__ln__: When i write as above, should it be "as station graphics NewGRF's" or "as station graphic NewGRF's"?
05:01<__ln__>NGC3982: Please place the apostrophe where it belongs, not where it doesn't.
05:01<NGC3982>peter1138: I see.
05:02<__ln__>Yes. And "I'm".
05:02<__ln__>The first one of the two, I would say.
05:03<NGC3982>Oh, that's supposed to be "im"?
05:03<__ln__>There's no such word as "im" in English as far as I know.
05:03<NGC3982>So I'm is correct?
05:04<__ln__>It is. You just wrote "Im" earlier.
05:04<NGC3982>I have no idea
05:04<NGC3982>Of anything, apparently.
05:04<@peter1138>__ln__, it im wif an ammer
05:05<__ln__>NGC3982: But typing "NewGRF's" revealed that you indeed have a functioning apostrophe key on your keyboard. :)
05:05<NGC3982>peter1138: Might that explain why there are so few depot NewGRFs, relative to the amount of station graphic NewGRFs?
05:05<NGC3982>__ln__: :-P
05:05<NGC3982>__ln__: It's (Its?) a bit confusing.
05:05<@peter1138>I don't know, maybe people don't care much about depots.
05:06<NGC3982>When i take a look at the swedish service system (InfraNord) and depots, there is alot of flavour and history embedded.
05:06<@peter1138>__ln__, did you spot my mistake there?
05:07<NGC3982>__ln__: If you might explain: "I am" > Im, but "It is" to "It's"?
05:07<@peter1138>I am -> I'm. It is -> It's
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05:08<NGC3982>This situation turned oxymoronic.
05:08<NGC3982>No, it didn't.
05:08<__ln__>peter1138: I wouldn't be deliberately looking from mistakes in others' text, would I?
05:08<@peter1138>__ln__, surely not :-)
05:08<__ln__>from -> for, even
05:09<@peter1138>__ln__, but did you, now that I've asked?
05:09<@peter1138>DID YOU SPILL MY PINT?
05:09<NGC3982>Oh god yes, pint.
05:09*NGC3982 is on vacation and found beer in the fridge.
05:10<__ln__>If you're referring to the "wif an ammer" sentence, it was gibberish; otherwise I didn't spot an error, no.
05:10<@peter1138>I was thinking that I separated two sentences with a comma instead of full-stop, but now I'm not sure.
05:11<NGC3982>This will not go well.
05:11<__ln__>Dunno if it's a mistake in such a short piece of text.
05:16<@peter1138>Don't make me want to play OpenTTD again... :S
05:21<NGC3982>peter1138: :(?
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05:24<__ln__>Curious that recent versions of OS X come with subversion preinstalled.
05:25<__ln__>Even most Linux distros don't.
05:33<NGC3982>peter1138: Why on earth did you stop wanting it in the first place. :P
05:53<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: maybe you want to explore the magic of autorefit (needs updated train set)
05:54<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: also you might want to explore the magic of Ctrl+S
05:56<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: Oh, i see.
05:56<NGC3982>And no, i don't need to make a screenshot of the full map when simply showing some orders.
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>that's not what Ctrl+S does
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07:25<NGC3982>The abnormity that is this channels chat activity really needs a jump.
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09:29<fjb>Moin Belugas
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10:05<KopjeKoffie>i´m trying to compile openttd 1.2.2
10:06<KopjeKoffie>but i get the following error:
10:08<KopjeKoffie>i have folowd the instruction on: instruction
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10:10<@Terkhen>KopjeKoffie: configure says that libpng has been detected?
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10:13<@Terkhen>KopjeKoffie: configure says that libpng has been detected?
10:14<KopjeKoffie>checking lzo2... found
10:14<KopjeKoffie>checking libpng... found
10:14<KopjeKoffie>checking libfreetype... found
10:15<KopjeKoffie>trunk fails also
10:16<@Terkhen>I tested the tutorial a few weeks ago
10:16<@planetmaker>KopjeKoffie, what architecture is that? 32bit 64bit?
10:16<@Terkhen>did you forget the /etc/fstab step?
10:17<KopjeKoffie>windows 7 64 bit
10:17<@Terkhen>mingw is 32 bits only, the mingw64 version fails with OpenTTD IIRC
10:18<KopjeKoffie>Select "Use pre-packaged repository catalogues". <-- i used the last version, is that the problem?
10:19<@Terkhen>maybe, but it should probably work too
10:20<KopjeKoffie>(16:16:56) Terkhen: did you forget the /etc/fstab step? <-- all okey
10:21<KopjeKoffie>i have windows 7 64 bit, but how can i see that i´m using mingw32?
10:21<@Terkhen>I dont know then... try with pre packaged
10:25<KopjeKoffie>maybe gcc 4.7 is the problem
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10:25<KopjeKoffie>i will try the pre packaged
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10:40<Rubidium>looks like the png headers might be messing with alignment
10:41<Rubidium>what happens if you compile with libpng disabled? Is the error then still there?
10:42<KopjeKoffie>how do i disable it?
10:44<NGC3982>I'm so fantastically bored with riding trains there days.
10:45<NGC3982>The standard trip I take every weekend really sucks the life out of me.
10:46<NGC3982>Maybe it's time to stop playing OpenTTD, and maybe ill appreciate it more :-D
10:47<Bad_Brett>Why don't you play OpenTTD on the train?
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10:48<NGC3982>I don't have my laptop operational.
10:48<NGC3982>Oh well, I do, actually.
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10:48<Bad_Brett>you see? problem solved :)
10:49<NGC3982>But this is a small commuter. No tables and stuff.
10:50<NGC3982>And I'm in the lowlands in under ten minutes.
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10:57<@Terkhen>KopjeKoffie: ./configure --disable-libpng IIRC, check the readme to be sure
11:13<KopjeKoffie>mingw with pre build packages builds openttd fine
11:13<KopjeKoffie>that is on gcc 4.6.2
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11:16<KopjeKoffie>building openttd with gcc 4.7.0 fails on screenshot.cpp, but is has lots of warnings
11:17<Rubidium>those warnings might be compiler bugs
11:18<Rubidium>because I build with gcc 4.7.1 and get none
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11:25<KopjeKoffie>oke thanks, now i can build my own openttd again :)
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11:31<@Terkhen>I'll make more clear in the tutorial that you need to use prepackaged
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13:49<fjb>Moin Alberth
13:51<@Terkhen>hi Alberth
13:55<fjb>Moin andythenorth
14:00<@Terkhen>hi andythenorth
14:00<andythenorth>MP GS later? :P
14:00*andythenorth is at work
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14:16<@Alberth>hi wolf
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14:19<fjb>Moin Wolf01
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15:10<andythenorth>ho ho ho
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15:58<Eddi|zuHause>"Ja is denn heut scho Weihnachten?"
16:05<NGC3982>What happends to stations with >X station spread, if the parameter changes?
16:05<NGC3982>To <X, that is.
16:06<@Terkhen>IIRC nothing
16:09<newbie>can someone tell me how/where in the sourcecode the first game is started in a dedicated server
16:11<Rubidium>somewhere in openttd.cpp I think
16:11<Rubidium>I'd look where LoadIntroGame is called
16:11<newbie>in need to know the exact somewhere ;)
16:11<Rubidium>then I can't help you right now
16:12<@Yexo>newbie: why do you need that if you don't want to look yourself?
16:12<@Terkhen>why do you need to know the exact part of the code but can't be bothered to look for it if you already have the function name?
16:12<newbie>i look myself
16:13<newbie>i guessed this function is called if you start a normal client
16:13<newbie>at least it made this impression...
16:13-!-newbie is now known as Der_Herr
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>but the place where this is called may have additional clues what happens on dedicated servers
16:15<@Yexo>Der_Herr: openttd.cpp:1023 NetworkServerStart()
16:15<@Yexo>might be a good start
16:18<Der_Herr>line 1023 is in the function Switch_To_Mode
16:19<@Alberth>wrong revision?
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16:20<@Alberth>or different, at least :)
16:20<Der_Herr>i used trunk from the repository, this is the latest?
16:21<@Yexo>Der_Herr: yes, that's correct, that's one of the first few functions called
16:21<@Yexo>main() sets _switch_mode, GameLoop() calls SwitchToMode()
16:22<@Yexo>line 1007 might be better though
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16:25<Der_Herr>SafeLoad loooks interesting
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16:28<Eddi|zuHause>lots of things look interesting. unless you tell us what you actually intend to do, we cannot help you finding the spot to do it
16:28<Der_Herr>I try to create a patch to enable dedicated servers to load and populate heightmaps
16:29<@Yexo>in that case look around openttd.cpp:609
16:29<Der_Herr>therefore i sucessfully implemented already a console command copying the newgame command with minor modifications
16:30<@Yexo>please keep that in two separate patches
16:30<@Yexo>a commandline option and a console option I mean
16:31<@Yexo>hmm, via -e -g you can load scenarios, never knew that :)
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16:38<Der_Herr>ok just a question for the console option: if you use it in a singleplayer game it works fine, but if i try to use it via rcon on a multiplayerserver the server does not seem to react on it? do i need to attach additional properties to the command like in console_cmd.cpp
16:38<@Yexo>what's the exact rcon command you use?
16:39<Der_Herr>rcon pw mycommand or rcon pw "mycommand filename"
16:39<@Yexo>looks fine
16:39<@Yexo>have you tried directly in the console of a server?
16:43<Der_Herr>mh i take my question back until i fixed the current error ;)
16:44<@Terkhen>good night
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17:01<Der_Herr>ok, fixed :) now other things are to do
17:02<Der_Herr>for example find the reason why the client is disconnected while loading a new heightmap
17:02<@Yexo>doesn't that happen too when loading a normal new game?
17:04<Der_Herr>newgame starts a newgame but the client stays connected or at leasts reconnects
17:16<Der_Herr>for example i use StartNewGameWithoutGUI with the only change StartGeneratingLandscape(GLWM_HEIGHTMAP);
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17:28<@planetmaker>clients stay connected if you use rcon load XXX
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17:28<Der_Herr>that does not change anything to newgame and the abbreviation i made to load heightmaps
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17:39<MNIM>ja lekker
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18:07<Wolf01>'night all
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18:17<Bruskork1>I have a quick question: Can me and a friend play OpenTTD together if he has a mac and I have a windows?
18:20<Bruskork1>Okay, thank you! :)
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18:29<Bad_Brett>Hey Eddi! does the patch seem to be working for you?
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>do you have a test grf?
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18:31<Bad_Brett>yes... it's quite dirty and only works in one direction... but maybe i'll should replace the vehicle with colored sprites for test purposes
18:32<Bad_Brett>i'll fix it
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18:49<Bad_Brett>woah... this is odd
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18:51<Bad_Brett>the sprite in the train list changes... seemingly randomly... but on the map it remains the same... and yet i've only added default graphics
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19:00<Eddi|zuHause>i might take a look tomorrow if you send me the GRF
19:01<Bad_Brett>thanks... i'll post it on the forums
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20:46<MoonShine>hey all
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---Logclosed Thu Sep 13 00:00:52 2012