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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-09-14

---Logopened Fri Sep 14 00:00:53 2012
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03:26<pschulz01>Greetings.. other than looking at the code (which I suspect I will need to do) is there any documentation on the savefile format?
03:27<Supercheese>Well, the wiki page is sparse: http://wiki.openttd.org/Savegame
03:28<pschulz01>Supercheese: Yup!
03:28<Supercheese>Hmm http://wiki.openttd.org/?title=OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Map/SaveGame&action=edit
03:28<Supercheese>that may be of more interest
03:28<Supercheese>still sparse
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03:29<Supercheese>ignore the action=edit
03:29<Supercheese>dunno why that got into the link
03:29<pschulz01>Supercheese: :-) I'm now looking for the Doxyen doco.
03:31<pschulz01>Hmm.. http://docs.openttd.org/
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03:32<planetmaker>pschulz01, if your intention is to make a savegame editor or so: savegame chunks change without notice
03:33<planetmaker>you currently will have to implement well over 100 versions
03:33<pschulz01>planetmaker: No.. I would like to run AI's and then query the savegame for data.
03:33<Supercheese>The fellow seeking to implement OTTD in a browser has some stuff
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03:34<Supercheese>http://code.google.com/p/webttd/wiki/OpenTTDsavegameXMLexport
03:34<Supercheese>Dunno what to make of it
03:34<Supercheese>old info
03:34<pschulz01>Supercheese: Ahha.. that might well be what I'm after.
03:34<NGC3982>morning
03:34<Supercheese>btw, I just Googled for "ottd save game" to find that :P
03:35<pschulz01>Supercheese: .. but I can look at the code
03:36<planetmaker>pschulz01, you cannot rely on the presence of any savegame really
03:37<planetmaker>there is some way via the NoAI API to save some data in the game and load it again - which I strongly suggest to use
03:37<pschulz01>planetmaker: I'll be using a specific version of openttd
03:38<pschulz01>planetmaker: Ok. I will look at th NoAI API.
03:38<pschulz01>planetmaker: That mae be useful for dumping data for a 'game in progress'
03:38<pschulz01>may
03:39<pschulz01>can AI
03:39<pschulz01>can AI's be spectators?
03:39<planetmaker>pschulz01, if you run an AI you don't need to query any savegame as the game actually is running. Thus use the normal accessors
03:39<planetmaker>A savegame may be well outdated already
03:39<planetmaker>AIs are not spectators
03:40<planetmaker>AIs are players and they're meant to be that
03:40<pschulz01>planetmaker: ok.
03:40<planetmaker>And "dumping data" is not really useful as well - as a savegame qua definition is "all the data you can want"
03:41<planetmaker>what is actually your real intention?
03:41<planetmaker>"dumping data" is nothing you do without reason
03:41<planetmaker>it's at best a means to achieve another goal
03:42<pschulz01>planetmaker: I want to use OpenTTD to generate traffic network data that I can use in another program.
03:42<pschulz01>planetmaker: *blink*
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03:54<planetmaker>ah well, no patience :-)
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04:13<Supercheese>good night
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04:13<Supercheese>valete omnes
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04:19<Terkhen>good morning
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06:32<newbie>hi
06:33-!-newbie is now known as Der_Herr
06:33<BenTrein>Hi
06:33<Der_Herr>where do i have to upload/post a patch concerning heightmap loading via console?
06:35<planetmaker>supposedly I'd go first for our development (sub)forum at tt-forums.net
06:35<planetmaker>if you believe that it's finished, you could go and suggest it at our issue tracker at bugs.openttd.org
06:36<planetmaker>mind the coding style then :-)
06:36<Der_Herr>it refers to a feature wish in your bug tracking system http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2155?do=details&task_id=2155&action=details.add_notification&ids=2155&user_id=2232
06:36<planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Coding_style
06:36<Der_Herr>thats why i ask
06:37<planetmaker>if you write a patch concerning a ticket... it might be prudent to reply with the patch in that thread there indeed
06:38<planetmaker>discussing in forums sometimes is still (or additionally) a good idea. More people seem to read forums while the bug tracker often is only noticed by us devs and few other people
06:38<planetmaker>(which is ok)
06:39<Der_Herr>so it would be best if i post it as answer to the ticket and open a new forum thread?
06:45<planetmaker>that's what I'd do, yes
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06:47<fjb>Moin
06:59<planetmaker>hi fjb
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08:00<Der_Herr>I posted: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=62677 and http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2155
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09:39<@Belugas>hello
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12:04<@Belugas>arg... got to delete a song... not enough space on phone card :(
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>get a bigger card!
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12:21<planetmaker>ver nice comment, peter1138 :-)
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12:40<@Alberth>hi
12:47<planetmaker>hi Alberth
12:47<@Alberth>hi, I already wondered where everyone is :)
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12:49<planetmaker>blown away by the winds, if I look out of my window
12:51<@Alberth>oh, it's not windy here, just very dark
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13:02<fjb>Moin Alberth
13:02*fjb is still here.
13:03<@Alberth>so I see :) moin fjb
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13:36<Wolf01>hello
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13:45<@Alberth>hello
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15:01<fjb>http://www.flickr.com/photos/infjb/7986215090/in/set-72157631526703349/
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15:59<Der_Herr>approx when can i expect some response to my posted patch?
16:08<Yexo>Der_Herr: whenever someone has time to review it
16:09<Yexo>some comments: please check your comments for correctness / english: "Get heightmap file informations. It Only considers given paths."
16:09<Yexo>GetFiosHeightmapItem <- I don't think that function belongs in console_cmds.cpp but rather in fios.cpp or something similar
16:10<Yexo>+DEF_CONSOLE_CMD(ConNewHeightmapGame) <- comments above that are // style, not /** style like required
16:10<Yexo>IConsoleHelp("Start a new gameusing a heightmap <- missing space
16:10<Yexo>two lines further down the lines in the if-block are not indented properly
16:11<Yexo>+ //StartNewHeightMapGameWithoutGUI((argc == 2) ? <- don't add commented-out code
16:11<Yexo>+ IConsoleCmdRegister("newheightmapgame", ConNewHeightmapGame); <- only tabs at the beginning of the line, use spaces in all other places
16:13<Yexo>how does this function behave when you're in the scenario editor?
16:26<Snail>Speaking of proposals... How about some response to adding a different way of counting in randomaction2 type84? :)
16:27<Yexo>I'm not sure if that's the best way
16:27<Yexo>ask frosch tomorrow, he had some ideas about it I think
16:28<Snail>An alternative would be to implement var5F through var61
16:30<Snail>I'd be happy with either solution
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17:33<Terkhen>good night
17:41<Der_Herr>fixed the patch, the command behaves fine in the scenario editor
17:42<Yexo>define "behaves fine"
17:42<Yexo>does it load the heightmap in the scenario editor or does it start a new game?
17:42<Der_Herr>it loads the heightmap
17:42<Yexo>in the editor or not?
17:42<Der_Herr>in the editor
17:43<Yexo>that's not what I'd expect "newheightmapgame" to do
17:43<Yexo>I think "load_heightmap" would be a better name
17:45<Yexo>also it doesn't look like any error is printed when it fails to load the specified heightmap (file found, but invalid)
17:45<Yexo>or is that already hidden elsewhere in the code?
17:46<Der_Herr>i kept the GetFiosHeightmapItem in the console_comds.cpp because it is derived from a similar function (GetFiosItem) in the same file
17:47<Yexo>ok, in that case it's probably fine (or both should be moved, but that'd be outside of the scope of this patch)
17:50<Der_Herr>if the file exists but is not valid, an error message is shown from somewhere else
17:50<Der_Herr>probably the real heightmap loading
17:50<Der_Herr>i tested it with an empty bitmap file
17:51<Yexo>ok, good :)
17:51<Yexo>it's getting too late now and I haven't tested it yet
17:51<Yexo>will look at it again later
17:52<Yexo>good night all
17:52<Der_Herr>thats fine thank you
17:52<Der_Herr>gn8
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18:58<Kylie>hey
18:58<Kylie>sup
18:58<Kylie>?
18:58<Kylie>:)
18:58<Kylie>wow fast typer i am lol
18:58<planetmaker>yes, congratulations
18:59<Kylie>but seriously
18:59<Kylie>sup all
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19:21<Kylie>so um
19:22<Wolf01>'night
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19:23<Kylie>so um. this wood factoiry has 2500 tonnes of wood waiting. the two trains only take ouyt 740 tonnes of wood to transport to goods.
19:23<Kylie>what to do?
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19:25<Kylie>i would require 5 more trains
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20:17<Supercheese>What foolishness is this, Visual C++ Express wants me to register to continue using
20:18<Supercheese>yeah right, like THAT's gonna happen
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21:01<Kylie>this ai is being problematic
21:01<Kylie>it made a coal to power plant trip with trucks
21:01<Kylie>but
21:02<Kylie>the peak capacity was such that it would require almost 70 trucks to even satisfy it
21:02<Kylie>plus lots more with the relative distance
21:02<Kylie>(what, 10 more? i'm not sure)
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21:05<Kylie>60 tiles at a max speed of 112 km/h
21:06<Eddi|zuHause>the equation <num vehicles>*<vehicle capacity>*<roundtrip time (ticks)> = <production per cycle>/256 must be satisfied
21:07<Eddi|zuHause>err, one of the * must be a /
21:07<Kylie>I doubt this AI is doing that really
21:08<Kylie>how do i calculate the <prod per cycle>
21:08<Eddi|zuHause>an industry does 8 or 9 cycles per month
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>for default industries, the lowest is 4 per cycle, so minimum of 32/36 production
21:10<Kylie>that sounds like a small number
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>it is
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>the highest is 255 per cycle for primary industries
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>which is 2000something
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>per month
21:15<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, 2 (roundtrip) times 60 tiles times 16 steps per tile times 256 substeps divided by 112 speed
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>@ 2*60*16*256/112
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 2*60*16*256/112
21:16<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 4388.57142857
21:16<Kylie>oh fuck
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 2*60*16/112
21:16<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 17.1428571429
21:17<Eddi|zuHause>means the vehicle capacity must be 17 times the production per cycle
21:17<Kylie>oh my god
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21:19<Eddi|zuHause>so if the mine produces 128/144 per month, that makes 16 per cycle
21:19<Eddi|zuHause>if your vehicle carries 20t
21:19<Eddi|zuHause>then you need
21:19<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 16*17/20
21:19<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 13.6
21:20<Eddi|zuHause>14 trucks
21:20<Kylie>this ai needs to use trains
21:20<Eddi|zuHause>plus a bit for loading time
21:20<Eddi|zuHause>and acceleration
21:20<Eddi|zuHause>which we did not consider in the round trip calculation
21:22<Kylie>thx for the math
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21:28*Kylie earns > mil income / year
21:28*Kylie earns > 20 mil income / year
21:30<Eddi|zuHause>20 thousand is not a large number
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 15 00:00:35 2012