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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-09-19

---Logopened Wed Sep 19 00:00:01 2012
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01:44<__ln__>'nng
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01:47<Supercheese>s'lv
01:48<Supercheese>what's the term for when a whole bunch of people get logged off and then auto-relog? netsplit?
01:48<__ln__>correcto
01:48<Supercheese>seems like one happened a couple hours back
01:48<__ln__>did indeed
01:51*Supercheese loves the new ctrl+arrow and ctrl+del in text fields
01:51<Supercheese>very helpful for dealing with station names
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02:08<NGC3982>Morning.
02:09<NGC3982>Supercheese: Oh, I have to try that.
02:10<NGC3982>In stable?
02:18<Supercheese>yes, in trunk nightly
02:19*Supercheese wonders if "trunk nightly" is redundant
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02:41<NGC3982>Ah, i see.
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03:09<@Terkhen>good morning
03:11<dihedral>hi
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03:21<KnogleAFK>g'morning
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04:04<@peter1138>top - 09:04:46 up 30 days, 4:06, 11 users, load average: 8.93, 7.88, 7.41
04:04<@peter1138>Cpu(s): 9.5%us, 38.8%sy, 0.0%ni, 10.6%id, 0.0%wa, 0.0%hi, 41.1%si, 0.0%st
04:04<@peter1138>:S
04:06<NGC3982>Dat sum load.
04:07-!-telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196-215-153-66.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd
04:09<Eddi|zuHause>41.1%si ... is that worse than 98%wa?
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04:15<@peter1138>Whatever it is, it's making shit slow :S
04:15<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you're facing a DDoS :)
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04:31<@peter1138>No, it's something with the system. Starts of fine but slowly gets worse.
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04:37<NGC3982>Probably a train deadlock in the feeder-system.
04:37<NGC3982>Harr, harr. Pun, pun.
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04:57<fjb>Moin.
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08:10-!-mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ
08:10-!-^Spike^ is "I Don't Care!" on #osm @#openttdcoop.wiki @#openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop.devzone @#openttdcoop.dev #openttd @+#coopetition @#openttdcoop
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09:18<@Belugas>hello
09:18<telanus1>hiii
09:20<planetmaker>salut Belugas
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09:21<@Belugas>hi guys :)
09:21<funnyfountain>hallo
09:21<funnyfountain>andhi
09:22<@Belugas>andhallo
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09:22<fjb>Moin Belugas.
09:22<fjb>Moin planetmaker.
09:23<planetmaker>hi fjb et al :-)
09:23-!-mrttd [4ff42aea@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
09:24<mrttd>hi guys
09:25<planetmaker>hi
09:25<fjb>Moin
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09:25<mrttd>ajdghpoiasudhgpoaihpoifhpweoifh
09:26<planetmaker>there's an irc test channel... #test
09:27<fjb>mrttd: English please.
09:27<mrttd>:):)OK
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09:29<mrttd>:O:D
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10:26<Hanfboy4000>hi together :) id like to translate some english websites of the open ttdwiki into german but i haven´t got access to do this. i want to be a part of this community so what should i do to translate items into german?
10:27<dihedral>register
10:27<dihedral>login
10:27<dihedral>do work
10:27<Hanfboy4000>where i can register?
10:27<Hanfboy4000>i didnt find anything
10:27<dihedral>that is the first challenge of being part of the community
10:28<Hanfboy4000>hahaha good joke :D ok then i have to solved this problem :D
10:29<planetmaker>right... the wiki's login doesn't offer a register as it seems
10:30<planetmaker>http://bugs.openttd.org/ <-- register there. The same login is valid on all OpenTTD pages. Except the forums which is separate
10:30<planetmaker>or rather... account.openttd.org
10:30<dihedral>i thought it was funny
10:31<planetmaker>moderately. As the wiki - opposed to the other services - doesn't link back to account.openttd.org
10:31<planetmaker>which in my book is not a good user experience :-)
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10:32<dihedral>nope
10:33<Hanfboy4000>thanks a lot guys :D
10:34<planetmaker>looking forward to your translations :-)
10:36<planetmaker>woot? when I'm logged-in I see a link on the log-in page which allows me to go to account creation :D
10:37<dihedral>:-P
10:37<dihedral>bugs... bugs everywhere
10:37-!-argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
10:38<planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Special:UserLogin
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10:38<planetmaker>do other users who are logged-in see the "create account", too?
10:40<planetmaker>lol The boolean really works the wrong way around it seems. But I can't edit that page. At least via web
10:45<fjb>It's not a bug, it's a security feature.
10:46<planetmaker>to not even offer any clue as of where you can register?
10:48<fjb>You can only register after autheticating yourself, thus proving you are authorized to register yourself.
10:48<planetmaker>:D
10:49<fjb>:P
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11:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r24532 /trunk/src/network/core/udp.cpp: -Change: try to read more UDP packets per game loop
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13:03<frosch123>damn, i am totally lost in xkcd
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13:03<Supercheese>yeah, it's amazing
13:03<Supercheese>I should try to wget all the images
13:03<frosch123>i cannot find back home :p
13:03<Supercheese>1n1w.png, I think is home
13:03-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
13:04<Supercheese>or very close to
13:04<frosch123>oh i think i made it to the surface again
13:04<Supercheese>1n1e, actually
13:04<Supercheese>http://imgs.xkcd.com/clickdrag/*.pngs for the images
13:04<Supercheese>http://imgs.xkcd.com/clickdrag/1n1w.png
13:05<blathijs>or http://xkcd-map.rent-a-geek.de/ for a scrollable, zoomable overview ;-)
13:06<Supercheese>someone put THAT up fast
13:06<blathijs>Supercheese: It's been there for most of the day already :-)
13:07<Supercheese>you mean most of the night
13:07<Supercheese>:P
13:07<blathijs>Also, I think that pretty much every IRC channel I'm in has been talking about today's XKCD. Nice :-)
13:07<Supercheese>GMT -8
13:07<blathijs>GMT+1 here :-)
13:07<blathijs>+2 even
13:07*Supercheese is not factoring in the wizardry that is daylight savings
13:08<frosch123>yay, i managed to drag once aound
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>"i wonder if there's life up there"
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>and then there's someone surfing on a plane :)
13:12-!-Endymion_Mallorn [~pplgoldbl@ool-4579e3ca.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #openttd
13:12<FLHerne>frosch123: I am too :o
13:13<Endymion_Mallorn>Silly question: If I have the EGRVTS NewGRF on my machine, is there any reason to download GRVTS?
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>no
13:14<FLHerne>Endymion_Mallorn: A 32bppEZ version of GRVTS is available, there's no corresponding one for eGRVTS yet :P
13:15<FLHerne>If you're not using 32bppEZ, there's no need to have GRVTS anymore
13:16<Endymion_Mallorn>Ah, awesome.
13:16-!-Simonn [Simon@230.48-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #openttd
13:17<Simonn>guys
13:17<Simonn>:(
13:17<Simonn>I did it again
13:17<Supercheese>Sounds like a song
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>a really bad one...
13:17<Supercheese>aye
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>if you're old enough :p
13:18<Endymion_Mallorn>I've been playing with EGRVTS for a while now, so when I ran across GRVTS in GRFCrawler, I raised an eyebrow. And what did you do, Simonn?
13:18<Simonn>http://picpaste.com/pics/SimonPort_International__25th_Nov_2062-SNSyeLUK.1348075098.png
13:18<Simonn>:(
13:18<FLHerne>Endymion_Mallorn: The 'e' stands for 'extended', I think ;-)
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, obviously your train line is too short :)
13:19<Simonn>ya won't say
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>Simonn: just turn the train around
13:19<Simonn>there used to be two trains, but I had capacity problems so I added a third
13:19<Endymion_Mallorn>It does. Which is why I wondered if the un-extended had anything that the extended didn't.
13:19<Simonn>but didn't notice that they were too short
13:19<Simonn>How do I turn em around
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>click on it
13:19<Simonn>I tried editing their orders and skipping the station
13:19<Simonn>but they won't turn around
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>there's a "turn around" button in the train view
13:19<FLHerne>Endymion_Mallorn: The extended one has largely the same as the original, but then extended :P
13:20<FLHerne>eGRVTS2 is completely different though
13:20<Simonn>ooo theres a signal force train to continue
13:20<Simonn>gonna try that one first
13:20<Simonn>lol
13:20<FLHerne>(And hasn't been properly released yet)
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>Simonn: that is a "create a big explosion" button
13:20<Simonn>pff it won't work
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>Simonn: i strongly recomment you to never use it
13:21<Simonn>I save first
13:21<Simonn>;)
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>expecially in conjunction with path signals, it's pretty much useless
13:21<Simonn>aa they are path signals
13:21<Simonn>okay another question
13:21<Simonn>if you are up for it
13:21<Simonn>;););)
13:21<Simonn>do you know any GRFs like so I can buy vehicles
13:21<Simonn>trains and planes
13:21<Simonn>which are very big
13:21<Simonn>Like double deck maglev trains
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>not really
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13:22<Simonn>or superjumbo jets
13:22<Simonn>which transport like 2000 passengers
13:22<planetmaker>quak :-)
13:22<Simonn>my hub is useless, it's congested so much I don't know what to do
13:22<@Alberth>quek :)
13:22<planetmaker>happened to me, too today, frosch. Hi Alberth
13:22<Endymion_Mallorn>Av8 maybe?
13:23<Endymion_Mallorn>Either way, thanks for the answer - bbl.
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13:23<Supercheese>Av8 late aircraft have, what, 600 passenger capacity?
13:23<Supercheese>throw a couple of those on an international airport, that'll get things moving
13:23<Simonn>I already have av8
13:24<Simonn>all my aircrafts are 600 passengers
13:24<Supercheese>then you need some better trains
13:24<Supercheese>you running any trainsets or just default vehicles?
13:24<Simonn>I have 6 airports
13:24<Simonn>and all of them have a queue
13:25<Simonn>I run standard trains I think
13:25<Simonn>The Chimron or something
13:25<Simonn>Level 4 Maglev
13:25<Simonn>but that's not the problem I need double decker wagons
13:25<Simonn>like 100 passengers per wagon instead of 40
13:25<Supercheese>exactly
13:25<Supercheese>you need to get a new trainset then
13:25<Simonn>this is the future I'm having overpopulation troubles
13:25<Supercheese>which means starting a new game
13:25<Simonn>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
13:26<Supercheese>if you don't want to start a new game, you're stuck with 40 pax per wagon
13:26<Supercheese>(well, technically not)
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>i think the transrapid in DBSetXL has like 120 passengers per wagon
13:26<FLHerne>Simonn: Get a house set that makes less people :P
13:26<Simonn>transrapid
13:26<Simonn>can't I put that in with an existing map?
13:26<Supercheese>but I'll definitely not recommend adding a train grf in a running game
13:26<Supercheese>thought it is possible
13:26<Supercheese>though*
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>Simonn: not if you already have trains
13:27<planetmaker>Supercheese, adding that trainset to the existing game, will 100% screw up the game
13:27<planetmaker>it will screw up that much that it most likely will crash.
13:27<planetmaker>I'm not exagerating here
13:28<Simonn>come on there has to be a way
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>Simonn: yes, sell all trains.
13:28<Simonn>and then add a new train set?
13:30<planetmaker>you don't need bigger trains or wagons. But better service and probably more trains which requires a better network
13:30<Simonn>I need bigger trains
13:30<Simonn>trust me
13:30<Simonn>I'm a professional
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13:31<@Alberth>that's what we are afraid of :)
13:32<Simonn>I need bigger planes and bigger trains in the future man
13:32<Simonn>600 passengers in 2063
13:32<Simonn>In 2063 they probably got planes of 6000
13:32<Simonn>China is booming like crazy
13:32<FLHerne>Was there a big change in the Advanced settings that breaks all the patches?
13:32<@Alberth>I don't think so, why would more people be traveling?
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>"never trust a man who says he's good at something because it's his job."
13:33*FLHerne keeps having crashes when trying to update them :P
13:33<Simonn>because there are more people Alberth
13:33<@Alberth>but the western world is running empty :)
13:33<Simonn>They all more and more planes in the bigger cities, but the existing airports become congested
13:33<Simonn>lol
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13:34<Simonn>I'm sure that's what Air traffic controllers in JFK are thinking
13:34<Simonn>man every day less planes
13:34<Rubidium>much bigger planes are likely not feasible
13:34<Simonn>not now
13:34<Simonn>but in the FUTURE!
13:34<Rubidium>unless there is a signficant breakthrough
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>well, fuel prices will double once israel attacks iran (probably soon after the US election)
13:34<@Alberth>Simonn: all this travel is just stupid imho, I think people would avoid it if they could
13:35<Simonn>well trust me
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>and they're unlikely to drop afterwards
13:35<Fremen>H-bussen ftw
13:35<Supercheese>Giant future-planes huh
13:35<@Alberth>FLHerne: adding of the tips in the window is the last big change there
13:36<Simonn>http://picpaste.com/pics/SimonPort_International__6th_Jan_2063-HpsIAokj.1348076165.png
13:36<Rubidium>Alberth: window?
13:36<Simonn>does this look like people are staying at home
13:36<Supercheese>*_DESC strings right?
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>the A380 already almost dismembered themselves during flight
13:36<Rubidium>you mean winglets?
13:36<@Alberth>Rubidium: advanced settings
13:36<Rubidium>oh...
13:36<Rubidium>desync!
13:36<@Alberth>sorry to break your idea :p
13:36<Supercheese>Simon, you need to put your train stations farther apart
13:37<Supercheese>too close leads to congestion
13:37<Simonn>what do you mean farther apart?
13:37<Simonn>they are all the same station
13:37<Supercheese>wait what
13:37<Simonn>all the stations you see there are one station
13:37<Simonn>can't you see the tunnels
13:37<Simonn>there are tracks going beneath them
13:38<Supercheese>default wagon loading speeds are pretty low, IIRC
13:38<Rubidium>you could reduce the length needed for switches by 66%
13:38<Rubidium>just a single crossover so you have in-out-in-out-in-out-in-out-in
13:38<Rubidium>and then untangle that where you have the space
13:39<Simonn>I don't understand what you just said
13:39<Simonn>lol
13:39<Simonn>Supercheese : is there any way to boost this?
13:39<Simonn>or ..... add bigger wagons? :( please there must be a way I'm willing to sell all my trains
13:39<Simonn>and install a patch and then buy them again
13:40<Supercheese>but are you willing to start a new game? if not, I cannot help you
13:40<Supercheese>(in that regard anyway)
13:40<Simonn>man... what about my city? :(
13:41<Supercheese>you could still do with some better track layout
13:41<Supercheese>but my own layouts are pretty weak, I defer to the experts for that
13:41<FLHerne>Supercheese: Did you look at 0ad? :P
13:41<Supercheese>yep
13:42<FLHerne>:D
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13:42<Simonn>http://picpaste.com/pics/SimonPort_International__6th_Jan_2063_2-hiduBwEk.1348076525.png
13:42<Supercheese>Couldn't find any "trees swaying" graphics settings
13:42<Wolf01>evenink
13:42<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
13:42*FLHerne needs to encourage lots more people to use it so that there are more people to play MP with ;-)
13:42<Supercheese>wait, Simonn, are you playing with cargodist or something?
13:42<Simonn>cargodist?
13:43<Supercheese>that's what your station window seems to imply
13:43<Supercheese>Chill's Patchpack, perchance?
13:43<Simonn>no :s I think it's just standard
13:43<Supercheese>you just have zillions of transfers
13:44<Simonn>I have
13:44<Simonn>lol
13:44<Simonn>I told you it's my hub
13:44<Simonn>thats why I need bigger planes
13:44*Supercheese generally avoids passenger transfers
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13:44<Simonn>There are 6 airports that tap off Simonnport
13:44<Simonn>and about 150 trains
13:44<Simonn>but it can't handle traffic
13:44<Supercheese>no kidding
13:45<Supercheese>yeah, with default maglevs I think you're pretty hosed on capacity and loading speed
13:45<Simonn>It stays pretty stable at 13.000
13:45<Supercheese>I haven't played vanilla trains in so long
13:46<Simonn>http://picpaste.com/pics/SimonPort_International__8th_Jan_2063-xIt0jX9P.1348076804.png
13:46<Simonn>I can't leave this magnificent city behind
13:47<FLHerne>Supercheese; Settings menus don't really exist yet. local.cfg :P
13:47<Supercheese>You could replicate by making a new scenario and mashing the "expand" button on a city of your choice :P
13:47<Supercheese>ah, guess I have to dive around appdata
13:48<Simonn>do you even know how many bus stations there are in these cities
13:48<Supercheese>(was not serious)
13:48<Simonn>=(((
13:48<FLHerne>Oh, apparently wavy trees are on by default in A11 :-)
13:49<Rubidium>Simonn: http://rbijker.net/openttd/Kol%C3%ADn%20Transport,%202000-09-02.png <- minimal signalling near the station
13:50<Rubidium>you need 6 tiles for tunnel entrance+track+signals, I need only 3
13:51<Simonn>yes but in my case a train can go from the other side to the other
13:51<Simonn>no?
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>i would probably switch around the track directions
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. all currently incoming tracks should be outgoing
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>and vice versa
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>then all trains have two choices at any time
13:52<Rubidium>Simonn: you should do that before the station already
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>currently the outermost track has no choice
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>(speaking about Rubidium's picture)
13:52<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: true, it's just a simple idea regarding to rough layout
13:52<Simonn>in my case there is always a choice
13:52<Simonn>lol
13:52<Rubidium>or rather before the tunnels start
13:52<Simonn>before the tunnel starts
13:52<Simonn>there is another tunnel with another station
13:53<Rubidium>that way vehicles won't be blocking eachother when entering/leaving
13:53<Rubidium>Simonn: so it's just trains going back and forth between two stations?
13:53<Simonn>no
13:53<Simonn>it's a line
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i know, i had a similar idea a few years ago.
13:54<Simonn>going east to west in my city
13:54<Simonn>and in the middle there is my hub
13:54<Rubidium>well, I wouldn't put a terminus in the middle as 'hub'
13:54<Simonn>terminus? :p
13:55<Rubidium>a station where trains have to turn around
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13:55<Simonn>they don't have to turn around
13:55<Rubidium>most platforms in the screenshot are connected by track at only one side
13:56<Simonn>yeah but those have enough capacity
13:56<Simonn>well.. you know not enough
13:56<Simonn>but they only lack about 20.000
13:56<Supercheese>off to classes
13:56<Supercheese>valete omnes
13:56<Simonn>http://picpaste.com/SimonPort_International__8th_Jan_2063_2-SX5zx6sb.png
13:57<Simonn>this is the problem
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13:57<Simonn>http://picpaste.com/pics/SimonPort_International__8th_Jan_2063_2-SX5zx6sb.1348077416.png this
13:58<Rubidium>you can't help much there
13:58<Rubidium>unless you destroy some houses/airport
13:58<Simonn>well that's what I did
13:58<Simonn>there used to be only 4 tracks
13:59<Simonn>Thats why I say I need double decker passenger carts
13:59<Rubidium>even then you could consider building half at the other side of the airport
13:59<Simonn>without destroying my world :( starting a new game
13:59<Simonn>at the other side of the airport there are 4 more airports
14:00<Rubidium>can't you add livestock carriages and refit them to passengers?
14:00<Rubidium>"cattle class" ;)
14:00<Simonn>lol
14:01<Simonn>http://picpaste.com/pics/SimonPort_International__8th_Jan_2063_3-oA7ACp1h.1348077715.png
14:02<Simonn>my 4 airports
14:02<Simonn>and I could buy like 60 more planes, because my airports at the borders of the map are flooded too with 8000+ passengers waiting at all of them
14:02<Simonn>but then the hub couldn't handle anymore
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14:23<NGC3982>Evening.
14:23<frosch123>damn, why did my compiler stop inlining static const integers when they are class members :s
14:30<Simonn>I think my trains in openttd look like this http://uberkuul.files.wordpress.com/2006/05/indian%20train%20no%20kidding.jpg
14:30<Simonn>but then maglev
14:31<Eddi|zuHause><Rubidium> can't you add livestock carriages and refit them to passengers? <-- the german government paid "3rd class group tickets" for these transports in the 1940a
14:40<Simonn>lol
14:40<Simonn>EDIT: read the whole thread. It answers all you can want to know. No, I won't put a summary here
14:40<Simonn></planetmaker>
14:40<Simonn>planetmaker :@@@ :P
14:46<planetmaker>... ?
14:47<planetmaker>oh, changing newgrfs. Yes, you very much look like the person not reading anything, but then come whining that stuff broke on your oh-so-precious savegame
14:47<planetmaker>so no, especially to you I cannot recommend it
14:47<Simonn>lol
14:47<Simonn>;(
14:48<Simonn>planetmaker have I ever told you that you ae very, very handsome
14:48*Simonn massages planetmaker muscular shoulders
14:52<Chris_Booth>wow how do these people find there way to IRC?
14:53<@Alberth>they read the wiki?
14:53-!-pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-055-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd
14:55*Simonn nods
14:55<Simonn>the wiki!
14:56<Simonn>I googled for openttd IRC
14:56<Simonn>lol
14:56<Simonn>I didn't even know there was a wiki at that time
14:58<@Alberth>ok, that confirms you're not reading anything :p
14:59<Simonn>hey I read the entire wiki after I found out
14:59<@Alberth>just kidding :)
14:59<Simonn>You don't know how much time I spend using the blocks to build roads/rails/whatever who only work in one direction
15:00<Simonn>before discovering that you could use that all-direction and just slide across the map
15:00<@Alberth>playing OpenTTD cannot be a problem, can it? :D
15:00<Simonn>no but I found it hard to get into at first
15:00<Simonn>the first hours
15:00<@Alberth>it is, but deep games often have that
15:35<frosch123>openttd? no bundled tutorial. zero points
15:39<NGC3982>Alberth: It sure can.
15:39<NGC3982>My stock exchanges have gone down the tubes completely since i started playing again.
15:39<NGC3982>Since i used to put my spare time on trading.
15:39<NGC3982>Not i put my spare time on NewGRFs.
15:39<NGC3982>:(
15:40<@Alberth>NewGRFs are much better :)
15:41<@Alberth>you can share them and get richer at the same time :)
15:44*planetmaker hugs Alberth
15:49<@Alberth>:)
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16:14<NGC3982>http://www.flickr.com/photos/appemobile/8004112398/in/photostream
16:14*NGC3982 hands oround the channel.
16:14<NGC3982>-o+a
16:15*fjb gets hungry.
16:17<xQR>mh, anybody knows why that delay of (at least) 1 tick for every DoCommand is needed in scripts?
16:18<xQR>want to set goals for all cities on the map from a citybuilder gamescript
16:18<xQR>but a bigger map can have 1000 towns/cities and if i set 4 cargo goals for each that is 4000 ticks waiting time = more than 2 minutes
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16:18<xQR>so basically it now on startup just sits there and tells you "please wait" :/
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16:18<xQR>there are some SetGrowthRate calls too which do the same
16:19<xQR>and ofc other actions beside that delay take time too
16:19<xQR>but that delay is really the annoying part here
16:19<Rubidium>in networking you need to run it in the next tick as the clients are already executing the current one
16:19<Rubidium>since you want the result of the command you have to wait for that
16:20<xQR>well in my case the server is empty, but an admin port client is connected, probably treated like a client for that matter
16:20<xQR>but i already thought it would be something like that
16:20<xQR>thx for explanation
16:20<Rubidium>furthermore an AI building a whole network in one tick ain't nice
16:21<xQR>it's only initialization
16:21<xQR>later actions are only done for single objects
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16:21<Rubidium>doesn't it already run during map generation? Then has already done 1280 ticks
16:22<Rubidium>and 1000 towns is an awful lot in MP
16:22<xQR>no, it is run a bit later
16:22<Rubidium>@calc 2048*2048/(40*40)
16:22<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 2621.44
16:22<Rubidium>@calc 512*512/(40*40)
16:22<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 163.84
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16:23<Rubidium>so for a reasonable MP map it's not that much
16:26<xQR>i guess i will change it so that the initialization is done bit by bit in the background
16:27<@Terkhen>good night
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16:32<xQR>http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21345942/Selection275656215.png
16:32<xQR>that's a 1024x1024, quite common when i check the current server list
16:33<xQR>as i said there are some more calls, SetCargoGoal was only one example
16:33<xQR>maybe i can optimize a bit, but the central problem stays
16:33<Rubidium>no reason so many people complain that their computer can't keep up
16:34<xQR>mh?
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16:34<xQR>what do you mean, the clients would suffer because of the DoCommands?
16:38<xQR>there should be a SetCargoGoal and SetGrowthRate that can be applied to all towns and cities in one step (and the respective DoCommand)
16:38<xQR>useful for such initializations
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16:39<Rubidium>no, huge maps + lots of vehicles == slowness
16:40<xQR>i don't see what that would have to do with my current specific problem, it doesn't even need vehicles to be slow :P
16:40<Rubidium>but you talk about a 1024x1024 map
16:40<Rubidium>which takes ages to initialise
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16:40<Rubidium>a smaller map takes much less
16:41<xQR>it wouldn't if there were DoCommands that could set town cargo goals for all towns on the map in one step ;)
16:41<Rubidium>that would makesome sense, yes
16:41<xQR>this is not about the map or server being slow in any other way, everything else is fine
16:41<xQR>it's only these calls that generate DoCommands for each of the citiey
16:42<xQR>*cities
16:43<xQR>other than that i know exactly what you mean, players demand bigger and higher and faster and whatnot games all the time
16:43<xQR>and you give them only a little bit bigger and they already start to whine "i can't connect anymore", "it's lagging"
16:43<xQR>everyday admin business :P
16:45<Rubidium>but seriously... most MP games are either quick competitive or some cooperative thing. In both cases a >512x512 map would be too big to be filled
16:45<xQR>though i think it's also a software problem to some degree, people especially complain that OpenTTD takes only 0.01% of available bandwidth and 10% of available CPU but they get told their computer is too slow
16:46<xQR>feels like driving a ferrari constantly in first gear
16:46<xQR>i guess that's because OpenTTD only has a single thread
16:46<Rubidium>it's not worth the effort to change that
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16:51<xQR>our 2048x512 server at the end of the game is usually so crowded that people have a hard time finding a free spot to lay a track
16:56<xQR>i saw people in or close to the admin team often indicate (or even state directly) that they think single player is more important
16:56<xQR>which is fine, it's an opinion someone can have
16:57<xQR>but it gets weird when people that probably haven't played a single public multiplayer game within the last 2 years tell you "how multiplayer games are"
16:57<xQR>only coop and quick competetive?
16:57<xQR>just scrolled through the server list and didn't find a single server indicating it would be cooperative in some way
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16:57<xQR>what i did find though is several servers showing a huge goal that cannot be reached in a quick game
16:57<planetmaker>it's funny when people join a channel and tell us what we know, what we did and how we should look at things
16:57<xQR>current top 5 by player count has a goal of 1.5 billion EUR
16:59<xQR>also not all of the players join and play the full time - some really do (and sleep some hours between, the freaks :P) but others just enjoy playing there for 1 hour in a map where many things are happening
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17:02<xQR>i don't see to what in my explanations that would refer to planetmaker
17:02<Rubidium>I currently see one long goal and two short goals in top 5
17:03<xQR>yep
17:07<xQR>anyway, just set up a 512x512 map with number_towns = 3, which lead to 192 towns/cities
17:08<xQR>with 5 DoCommands per town it's still almost thousand ticks
17:08<xQR>i still think i could use commands for all towns :P
17:09<xQR>(script actually took 1295 ticks, as it also does other things and probably can still be optimized a bit)
17:10<xQR>so would it make sense to create a bug tracker entry for it or are there technical reasons why this couldn't work?
17:11<Rubidium>a single command to set the same goal for each town?
17:11<Rubidium>or multiple command/tick?
17:11<xQR>basically SetCargoGoal() working without a town id, then affecting all towns
17:11<xQR>same for SetGrowthRate()
17:11<xQR>it wouldn't make sense mid-game but good for initialization work
17:12<xQR>no, they should just lead to a single DoCommand each which is interpreted by the clients accordingly
17:12<Rubidium>for the single command it makes sense
17:12<xQR>ok thx
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17:39<Bad_Brett>did the server just crash?
17:40<Supercheese>hm>
17:40<Supercheese>?*
17:41<Bad_Brett>everybody quit the channel... and i can't access openttdcoop
17:42<Supercheese>I'm not on ottdcoop, but this one's been fine for me
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17:42<Bad_Brett>it happened just before you arrived
17:42<Bad_Brett>it seems
17:42<Bad_Brett>anyway
17:42<Supercheese>yeah, perhaps
17:42<Bad_Brett>i can ask you instead
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17:44<xQR>a lot of people on IRC with bnc.openttdcoop.org host quit IRC nearly 30 minutes ago
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17:44<xQR>[23:17:21] † V453000 (~V453000@bnc.openttdcoop.org) (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
17:44<xQR>for example
17:45<xQR>so looks like there is some problen
17:45<xQR>-n+m
17:45<Bad_Brett>yep
17:45<KenjiE20>that should probably be adressed over in ##openttdcoop, but yes
17:45<KenjiE20>-#
17:46<Bad_Brett>if i use two cargos from the cargo table i write [[IRON,8],[COAL,8]] and it works perfectly... but when I try to use only one cargo, i can't get it to work... i thought it would be as simple as [IRON,8], but it won't work... (i'm working with industry_tiles)
17:48<Supercheese>try double brackets
17:48<Supercheese>accepted_cargos: [[IRON, 8]];
17:48<xQR>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5304 <-- hope i explained it correctly
17:49<Bad_Brett>tried that as well, didn't work :(
17:50<Supercheese>Here's some of my code that works
17:50<Bad_Brett>...and i tried it again, and like magic, it did
17:50<Supercheese>oh
17:50<Supercheese>nevermind lol
17:50<Supercheese>:)
17:50<Bad_Brett>i guess problem's solved... i must've forgotten to save or something like that
17:51<Supercheese>yeah perhaps
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17:59<planet>sorry for the inconvenience wrt #openttdcoop DevZone etc. The datacentre knows it has to take actions... currently it seems completely unreachable.
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18:01<Wolf01>'night
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18:05<Zuu>xQR: Will need to get http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5206 into trunk before the ScriptController:Break() function can be introduced. The patch is somewhat done, but I need to convince myself that I have implemented it in a sane way.
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18:10<xQR>yeah i saw that dependency
18:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r24533 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move position determination on minimap legend to separate function.
18:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r24534 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Feature: Highlight industries on the smallmap when the mouse is over an entry in the legend.
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds interesting
18:12<Supercheese>oooh, yes it does
18:12<frosch123>not quite sure though :p
18:12<frosch123>it does not exactly fit ottd
18:12<frosch123>but firs was so confusing
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>hehe :)
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>i still have this open suggestion that the industry chain view gives you an industry list filter (not just a minimap filter)
18:14<frosch123>it also needs a output/input selection
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18:26<frosch123>night
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18:26<planet>night frosch...
18:26<Bad_Brett>i think it sound like an excellent idea
18:27<Bad_Brett>with 32 cargos and tons of industries, a tooltip would be really helpful
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18:43<Simonn>Supercheese !!!!
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20:07<Supercheese>Sorry, was afk and forgot to say
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20:21<Supercheese>So excited for this new airship: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC3Hr_s6dcs
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20:22<Supercheese>(audio unnecessary, just music)
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20:40<Bad_Brett>woah! nice
20:41<Supercheese>the small prototype is what's shown under construction
20:41<Supercheese>their hope is to eventually build ones much larger as shown in their 3D renders
20:42<Bad_Brett>kinda reminds me of the carryalls from Dune II
20:44<Bad_Brett>what a game that was
20:44<Bad_Brett>and is
20:45<TinoDidriksen>They showcase it used for military airdrops. I doubt that will ever happen - way too big unarmored target.
20:45<Supercheese>yeah, they're very ambitious
20:46<Supercheese>the practical heads will likely prevail
20:48<Supercheese>the military application I conjecture will be more for surveillance and transport far from combat
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20:48<Supercheese>unless they can put some fancy countermeasures on it, I wouldn't take it near combat zones
20:48<Bad_Brett>yeah i think so too
20:49*Supercheese wants to make a GRF with that airship
20:49<Bad_Brett>they probably won't drop tanks in the warzone
20:50<Bad_Brett>you wanna see something scary? :)
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20:50<Bad_Brett>apple store opens in a mall in sweden:
20:50<Bad_Brett>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCrmKJjeJPI
20:51<Supercheese>holy crap is that the line
20:52<Supercheese>what the heck are they doing :|
20:57<Bad_Brett>that shit is like religion here
20:57<Bad_Brett>it's like a religious cult of apple fans
20:58<Supercheese>You know that Apple chose it's logo -- an apple with a bite taken out of it -- exactly for it's religious connotations?
20:58<Supercheese>think about it
20:58<Supercheese>its* logo
20:58<Supercheese>its* CRAP
20:58*Supercheese hates it's/its
20:58<Bad_Brett>my girlfriend actually presented that theory a few days ago... so it's true?
20:58<Supercheese>decidedly
20:58<Supercheese>Thou shalt not die, said the serpent
20:59<Supercheese>and all that
20:59<Bad_Brett>yeah
20:59<Bad_Brett>scary
20:59<Bad_Brett>i bet the blue guys were paid a lot to keep the energy levels up
21:00<Supercheese>possibly
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21:05<Bad_Brett>i've seen a lot of strange videos from japan but this may be even harder for me to understand :/
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21:06<Supercheese>afk dinner
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23:26<Bad_Brett>Supercheese: do you have matlab?
23:26<Supercheese>I don't have it installed on this machine but I have access to it
23:26<Supercheese>never used it much though
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23:46<Bad_Brett>ok... i'm doing my scenario in a matlab GUI that generates much of the nml code... it's not finished, but it's pretty good at handling sprites (renames, resizes sprites to all zoom levels and creates all the spritegroups) and you get a quite good overview over stuff... if you want to try it, just let me know :)
23:46<Supercheese>lots of folks use C-preprocessing, with #defines and stuff
23:47<Supercheese>the devzone and compile farm support it
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23:56<Bad_Brett>i know, i did that first as well, using FIRS as a blueprint
---Logclosed Thu Sep 20 00:00:03 2012