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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-09-28

---Logopened Fri Sep 28 00:00:17 2012
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00:54<Supercheese>There isn't a vehicle variable to determine whether a tram is running on tram-only tracks vs. road-embedded tram tracks, is there?
00:54<Supercheese>I've been asked that question in the fake subways thread, and I haven't seen one in preliminary browsal of the specs
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01:00<Rubidium>Supercheese: I think that needs roadtypes first
01:01<Supercheese>Yeah, makes sneeze
01:01<Supercheese>sheesh, my auto-correct went crazy with that one
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01:17<Knogle>roadtypes makes me sneeze too.
01:18*Supercheese hopes a "no clip" variable will get added to roadtypes when they come out
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02:41<__ln__>must be a british english word
02:43<Supercheese>what about juvenile goats?
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02:52<xahodo>openttd-usefull is over a year old, is it still relevant or should I download the individual development packages?
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03:14<Supercheese>Good night
03:14<Supercheese>valete omnes
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03:29<@Terkhen>good morning
03:31<@Terkhen>xahodo: I don't remember any recent updates to libraries that affect OpenTTD directly so it should be okay to use it
03:31<@Terkhen>IIRC our binaries are compiled with it :)
03:46<xahodo>I am trying to get git source control providerr set up (visual studio 2010) got any experience with it?
03:49<@planetmaker>xahodo, mind, if you want to play multiplayer, you *must* use SVN
03:51<@Terkhen>xahodo: no, when I use MSVC I only use it to compile, everything else is done by a console
03:54<xahodo>Ok, so svn is the way to go?
03:54<@planetmaker>it highly depends what you want to do, xahodo
03:54<@planetmaker>for development I really would not recommend it. On the contrary
03:54<@planetmaker>For just compiling one of the official versions it's essential, though
03:55<xahodo>grmbl... been stumbling around with git for nothing then.
03:56<@planetmaker>if you only play single player it doesn't matter. But in multiplayer the version detection of git or hg will of course report the git or hg version. but multiplayer goes by the svn revision
03:56<@planetmaker>which... can only be detected using svn
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05:44<@planetmaker>moin Alberth
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06:03<@planetmaker>salut peter1138
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10:33<Kitty>Is founding a new town ever a profitable venture ?
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10:35<@Alberth>perhaps if you do enough transport with it, but honestly, I don't know, I have never founded a town
10:35<Jake>Probably not. But the time you can afford to do it, who cares?
10:35<@planetmaker>I'd assume that it depends on the timeframe you look at amortisation
10:36<Kitty>is there a way to get yearly profit from a station ?
10:36<Jake>Also, new scenario up:
10:39<@Alberth>Kitty: How would you calculate that?
10:39<Jake>My firast experiment with ECS, as well as a rare scenario with a somewhat detailed back-story.
10:39<Kitty>Alberth: there is that
10:41<@Alberth>Kitty: you can pull the list of trains that visit this station, but that's for their entire order list
10:42<Kitty>hmm, what are the stats on air crashes? I just had the same plane crash twice in about 5 minutes...
10:43<@Alberth>fast planes landing on small airports is not so good
10:45<@Alberth>Kitty: what I mean is that vehicles make money on traveling with cargoes. Stations are just transfer medium, they don't make money
10:45<@planetmaker>s/fast/big/ :-)
10:46<Kitty>Alberth: it's an A380 landing on an international airport
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10:48<@Alberth>ok, that should be normal chance, depending on your aircraft crash setting
10:48<@planetmaker>but randome chance doesn't mean that two things can't happen immediately after eachother
10:49<@planetmaker>it's random. Not temporally equally spaced
10:49<Kitty>of course
10:49<Kitty>I am aware it could just be bad luck
10:49<@planetmaker>good :-) Just saying. Randomness is usually a concept which often is a bit mis-understood, especially if statistics are low (N<=2)
10:50<Kitty>of course
10:50<Kitty>eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee is a random string
10:50<Kitty>people just don't realise it
10:50<Kitty>this has been used as a weakness to exploint one time pads
10:53<Kitty>I prefer
10:55<Kitty>I feel it is relevant to me
10:55<@planetmaker>you'd be surprised to how many people in this channel it would apply :-P
10:55<Kitty>I think that is true of most IRC channels
10:55<Kitty>lets face it, IRC is the domain of the geek well and truelly now.
10:55<Kitty>everyone else is playing with farcebook
10:56<@planetmaker>yup even
10:58<@Alberth>nice one :)
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11:13<Rubidium>and 1234 is a random pin number ;)
11:14<Rubidium>which is used by like 10% ;)
11:15<Rubidium>(for 9 number pins I'd have a 1/3 chance of getting the right one by testing one number)
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11:30<@planetmaker>nice article, Rubidium. Thanks :-)
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11:43<frosch123>hmm, i always prefered odd numbers
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11:51*NGC3982 writes a curriculum vitae.
11:51*NGC3982 is not happy about it.
11:52<Rubidium>darn it frosch123... that makes me think how odd odd numbers are, though they are about as odd as even numbers
11:53<Rubidium>though the number of non-odd-non-even numbers is an infinitive time large
11:53<Rubidium>wouldn't that make the chance of encountering an odd number like 0?
11:53<@planetmaker>but two is the only truely odd prime ;-)
11:53<@planetmaker>or rather even two is a truely odd prime
12:00<frosch123>hmm, 4/20 is no known term in my generation
12:01<frosch123>likely only american
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12:23<@peter1138>it's a pot-head thing
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13:35<@Alberth>moin Wolf01
13:35<Wolf01>hello o/
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14:51<FLHerne>AWQAPUMA: Don't spam please :-(
14:52<FLHerne>What's the point in shouting the same thing 15 times, anyway? :P
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15:19<Kylie>hi all
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15:33<andythenorth>does anyone understand how autorefit handles cargo subtypes?
15:33*andythenorth doesn't
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15:37<@planetmaker>andythenorth, iirc it tries to maintain subtype... but i might be wrong
15:39<andythenorth>I'm trying to figure out if subtypes allow invalid orders to be created
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15:39<andythenorth>can't be bothered to test right now :P
15:43<andythenorth>subtypes allow the creation of invalid orders
15:43<andythenorth>specifically in the case that subtypes change vehicle length (there may be others)
15:44<andythenorth>this means that I need to redesign BANDIT again :P
15:44<andythenorth>and HEQS
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16:17<@Terkhen>good night
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16:42<frosch123>hmm, i ordered a new cellphone sim card yesterday
16:43<frosch123>meanwhile i received 3 mails about the order status
16:43<frosch123>each one from a different mail address :p
16:44<frosch123>(as in completely different companies)
16:45<@Alberth>and none of them said 'shipped' ?
16:45<frosch123>lol... there is a hint at the bottom of the email: protect the environment - you do not have to print every email
16:46<frosch123>Alberth: one order confirmation, one after the order was verified or so, and one about sending it out
16:47<frosch123>not sure how many humans are involved in these three steps, but if they are, they have annoying work hours
16:50<frosch123>hmm, maybe the order was verified by someone in south americe
16:50<Kylie>so this train line with many power plants connected to the same coal mine only usually gets 1/3 of its total cargo capacity on each traiin at any one time
16:51<frosch123>connecting multiple power plants to a single mine?
16:51<@Alberth>good night
16:51<frosch123>how rare, most do the revere
16:51<frosch123>night albert
16:52<Kylie>frosch123: point?
16:52<Yexo>Kylie: are you using full load orders?
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16:52<frosch123>Kylie: i was wondering whether you would be playing ecs or so
16:52<frosch123>as that's the industry set i know the least
16:53<Kylie>there are 8 trains, yexo, and 1/3 is 50 to 65 tonnes of cargo showing before a train pulls in
16:53<frosch123>with the other sets everyone i saw so far, delivered coal from multiple mines to a single power plant
16:53<Kylie>frosch123: no, im not playing ecs
16:54<Kylie>Yexo: and they dont worrk, i've tried
16:54<Yexo>Kylie: so what exactly is your problem?
16:55<Kylie>bcause when i use them, all8 traains end up waiting forever for 300 or 320 tonnes of coal to be handed to them. then usually there is a reserve of 4 trains that go out and back in while the otther 4 are waiting
16:55<Kylie>and hm maybe not a issue after all
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16:56<Yexo>you can change some setting so that trains never reverse while waiting for a signal
16:56<Yexo>and it those trains all wait too long, have you considered somewhat smaller trains?
16:56<Yexo>8 trains that are only able to carry 150 tons of coal wouldn't have to wait so long
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16:57<Kylie>I was trying to get orders to wait until 50 percent
16:58<Kylie>is there a way
16:58<Yexo>unfortunately not
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17:07<@planetmaker>you can try to tune things by means of time tabling. But that's for this purpose also not reliable
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17:14<LordAro>evenings all
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17:31<Kylie>got to go all!
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18:11*Jake is reading the NML tutorial, and already has a headache a mere four pages in.
18:11<FLHerne>It's quite a good tutorial, actually :-)
18:11<Zuu>Try NFO, and NML will feel alot easier.
18:11*FLHerne has been trying to apply it to stuff :P
18:12<Jake>I know. If it wasn't I'd have given up in despair before I got to the end of the introduction.
18:13<Zuu>However I have never really got the interest in making NewGRFs, so I havn't studied the specs more than just lightly.
18:14<Jake>Me neither, but I had an idea for a really good one.
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18:14<Yexo>I've never been that interested in making them, but at first I was very curious how they worked
18:15<Yexo>then I got hooked and wanted something better :p
18:16<Jake>Sounds like my introduction to Dwarf Fortress modding.
18:16<Zuu>If I would start thinking about making something, I would quickly get reminded about that it would take painfully a lot of time to draw the graphics. So I rather stay with programming oriented content :-)
18:16<Yexo>you can do newgrf programming without touching graphics at all
18:16<Yexo>that's what I try to do ;)
18:17<Jake>I'll have to do the same; can't draw to save my life.
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18:19<FLHerne>Jake: What's this great idea? :-)
18:22<Jake>An assortment of "seaport" buildings that require various kinds of cargo, to represent shipping stuff off the edge of the map.
18:23<Jake>Might also do an "airport" building that accepts passengers, mail and goods as well as generating some of the latter.
18:27<Jake>The idea is to make smaller maps seem like they're connected to the wider world; anything smaller than 1024x1024 feels too small to function as a closed system, and yet I can't make good scenarios bigger than 512x512.
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18:37*planetmaker also hardly ever drew graphics and wrote in comparison to the art work plenty of hours of newgrf code ;-)
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 29 00:00:18 2012