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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-10-08

---Logopened Mon Oct 08 00:00:34 2012
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01:44<Kenjy>hello guys
01:44<Kenjy>i have a question
01:44<Kenjy>i installed 32bpp but the gui wasnt take over in the "mod"
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04:31<NGC3982>I don't understand this. If a town gets bad rating because of me terraforming, depending on the town size - it's impossible to get better rating?
04:33<Leto`>plant a massive amoun tof tree (without destroying anyithing)
04:36<NGC3982>That actually helped.
04:42<Leto`>;)
04:42-!-Leto` is now known as Fremen
04:43<Fremen>it's indeed annoying if you build too much around a city then you can't build anythign there
04:43<Fremen>trees are the solution :p
04:43<Fremen>anything as in stations
04:44-!-Guest942 is now known as planetmaker
04:45<planetmaker>first build stations. Then terraform and build tracks
04:45<planetmaker>Authorities are real tree-huggers in OpenTTD
04:45<planetmaker>Don't mess with their beloved ones ;-)
04:45<MNIM>quite the contrary to IRL authorities.
04:45<NGC3982>Yes, i know. But i keep missing out.
04:45<NGC3982>Bah.
04:45<NGC3982>Hehe
04:45<V453000>or take the path of violence and use magic dozer on them
04:46<Eddi|zuHause>have you ever dealt with real authorities?
04:46<telanus>Those here just want bribes :P
04:47*NGC3982 remembers when trying to get permit to set up a new street sign outside his office.
04:47<NGC3982>It took me six months, and the time spent cost more than the actual sign.
04:48<planetmaker>where I live there really are also rules on how many trees (or area) you have to plant trees if you build a commercial building...
04:49<NGC3982>The same goes around here.
04:49<NGC3982>It has actually worked pretty good, too.
04:50<NGC3982>For every square meter of land you buy of the county for buildings, you have to pay for additional forest preservation/plantation around the county
04:51<NGC3982>In Vaxjo county (Kronoberg), there is a big company that helps new businesses with the payments to the very same preservations, but in return get to keep maintainance of the city parks, forests and such.
04:51<NGC3982>And they build stuff like crazy. Fountains, pavilions, statues and such.
04:51<NGC3982>Tis' be neat.
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05:18<planetmaker>nice answer on the savegame compatibility, Eddi|zuHause :-)
05:35<Eddi|zuHause>i get that a lot :p
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09:29<andythenorth>oh
09:29<andythenorth>he actually posted it
09:29<andythenorth>"OTTD is dying..."
09:29<andythenorth>:o
09:29<andythenorth>he's a very clever and elegant troll :)
09:30<andythenorth>that's made my day :)
09:30<planetmaker>ho andythenorth :-)
09:30<andythenorth>definitely a troll
09:30<andythenorth>probably with good intentions too
09:33<andythenorth>how does that song go?
09:33<planetmaker>the # commits / unit time *does* decrease. At least in the svn repo
09:33<andythenorth>"Dying since the day I was born"
09:34<andythenorth>Lisa Loeb!
09:34<andythenorth>Nine Stories!
09:34<planetmaker>But... there's grfcodec. There's NML. There's NewGRFs. All which is no longer counted directly towards that commit count
09:34<andythenorth>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55QHKQszhhc
09:34<planetmaker>as it's not part of the svn
09:35<planetmaker>nor actually the experimental branches, which nowadays often are hg or git repos on other servers, too
09:35<andythenorth>stuff dies
09:35<andythenorth>all the big features are done
09:35<andythenorth>there's very little shiny low-hanging fruit
09:35<andythenorth>the gaps are filled
09:35<andythenorth>and many features are simply blocked by reality :)
09:36<andythenorth>it's kind of 'done'
09:36<planetmaker>there's a lot of big features which could be added. But... big fruit are not necessarily easy to grow
09:36<andythenorth>it's a complexity problem, everything interacts with everything else
09:36<andythenorth>[shrug]
09:36<planetmaker>height levels. newgrf bridges, infra sharing, cargo distributions or destinations, ... whatever :-)
09:36<andythenorth>they don't necessarily improve gameplay
09:37<andythenorth>making 12 good GS would add a lot more life to OpenTTD than [big feature x]
09:37<planetmaker>I think the 32bpp graphics could change the perception of the game quite a lot
09:37<planetmaker>and you're right about the GS
09:37<andythenorth>meh, they're only pictures
09:37<andythenorth>gameplay beats all
09:37<planetmaker>perception. Not gameplay. yes :-)
09:38<andythenorth>also the assumption that openttd is seeking big market share
09:38<andythenorth>that keeps coming up
09:38<andythenorth>is that a goal?
09:39<planetmaker>well. Not directly. On the other hand, personally I like to make things enjoyable for rather more people than few. On the pre-condition that I enjoy it, too ;-)
09:39<planetmaker>or at least not mind
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10:11<Markk>Internetz is ze börken.
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10:34<Markk>http://i.solidfiles.net/nfvu.png
10:34<Markk>Things like that is funny to look at.
10:34<Markk>I'm calling it: OpenTTD Mindfuck.
10:45<NGC3982>What the
10:46<Rubidium>it's a simple image flip
10:46<NGC3982>MC Escher called and wanted his game back
10:48-!-al3x [~Miranda@91-64-97-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd
10:48<al3x>hi there
10:50<al3x>@Markk sweet mindfuck :D getting dizzy
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11:02<Markk>:D
11:02<Markk>Rubidium: It is.
11:02<Markk>Rubidium: But the simple is fun.
11:02<Markk>:)
11:02<supermop>hi
11:13<andythenorth>two of my favourite websites are going to domain holding pages :P
11:13<andythenorth>coincidence?
11:13<andythenorth>or conspiracy...? :)
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11:42*telanus wonder if one can make a disaster where your truckdrivers go on strike (like: http://ewn.co.za/2012/10/08/Seven-trucks-set-alight-in-Cape-Town)
11:44<supermop>hi andy
11:45<supermop>hi built a lego heqs truck last week
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11:46<andythenorth>not true without pictues
11:46<andythenorth>pictures *
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11:55<supermop>look on the forum
12:10<al3x>link for the lazy ones?
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12:24<BadBrett>splendid... my sprite splitter works as a charm. hopefully animating complex tile layouts will be a lot easier now
12:25<supermop>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48313&view=unread#p1048867
12:25<|Terkhen|>hello
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12:27<FLHerne>andythenorth: Hoyo :-)
12:28<BadBrett>really great to see more afols out there... by the way, are you going to participate in the competition?
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12:29<supermop>competition?
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12:47<andythenorth>supermop: didn't get the mining truck yet
12:47<andythenorth>got the rest of the mining stuff
12:48<supermop>i got it as a prop for our show room window
12:48<supermop>its nice
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12:53<BadBrett>yeah there's a lego technic competition
12:54<BadBrett>http://technic.us.lego.com/en-us/campaign/Default.aspx
12:59*andythenorth likes the comments from MB :)
12:59<planetmaker>andythenorth, both, you and him derail the topic, tbh
12:59<planetmaker>considering to lock it
13:00<planetmaker>and I have to say, you started trolling, I'm afraid
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13:03<andythenorth>well my comment was genuine + true, but yes ok ;)
13:03<andythenorth>and I think I know what MB is saying as well
13:04<andythenorth>have we reached Eternal September? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
13:04<planetmaker>genuine and true: yes. Only effect is to derail, though
13:06<andythenorth>I wouldn't lock it yet, it's not particularly acrimonious
13:06<planetmaker>I've had enough of that (guessing the meaning of that word)
13:06<planetmaker>to get another of such threads
13:06<andythenorth>I could delete my comment if you want
13:08<planetmaker>don't bother. too late
13:09<andythenorth>it didn't strike me as the most trolly thing I've done, but maybe my judgement is off :P
13:09<andythenorth>if so, oops :o
13:12<planetmaker>I don't quite mind really. But I found it quite sub-andy standard
13:12<planetmaker>just telling :-)
13:14<planetmaker>but maybe I just read it totally different than you intended it to be understood :-)
13:14<planetmaker>anyway your comments are surpassed already by the subsequents; they're putting the topic down the drain
13:15<planetmaker>can't be arsed. Locked it
13:20<Terkhen>ooh
13:20<Terkhen>there goes my answer :(
13:24<andythenorth>fwiw, one of the programmers who works with me is giving this talk this week http://www.ploneconf.org/the-event/talks/conference-talks/fuck-you-do-something
13:24<andythenorth>related to the same issue "Plone is dying"
13:25<planetmaker>is it available online?
13:25<andythenorth>dunno
13:26<andythenorth>"plone is dying" is at least a 5 year old thing though
13:26<andythenorth>similar set of community issues, similar commitment o doing things right from core team
13:27<andythenorth>we have been talking about it, hence it made my day to see "openttd is dying" ;)
13:28<andythenorth>"[insert name here] is dying"
13:29<andythenorth>of course it's fricking dying, there's no free pass from laws of thermodynamics
13:29<planetmaker>:-)
13:29<andythenorth>more interesting is to take it seriously though
13:30<andythenorth>there is a certain min. number of core contributors below which it fails
13:30<andythenorth>or you get Dwarf Fortress :P
13:31<andythenorth>not enough people to code review, help with design problems w
13:31<andythenorth>
13:31<andythenorth> = faster entropy
13:31*andythenorth typing one fingered whilst holding child :P
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13:32<planetmaker>we're not there (yet). Though we do have less activity this year than last
13:33<andythenorth>but we also have regular stable releases, GS, zBase, nml etc
13:33<planetmaker>yes. Those commits don't exactly count to the usual count... much activity went there recently
13:34<andythenorth>it is *much* harder for me to get any newgrf features discussed / added
13:34<andythenorth>maybe I spent all my creit :P
13:34<andythenorth>credit *
13:35<andythenorth>but also...we have enough stuff
13:35<andythenorth>most of the suggestions are just "MOAR"
13:37<planetmaker>well. There was a bit amount of NewGRF changes in 1.2.... And which (new) NewGRF changes did you recently bring forward? :-)
13:38<planetmaker>or maybe their complexity is much bigger than your initial suggestions ;-)
13:40<andythenorth>smoke, new docks
13:40<andythenorth>both of those can be made complex
13:40<andythenorth>the prevailing assumption now is 'do it properly to avoid being boxed in in future'
13:41<andythenorth>which is good, but never ships ;)
13:41*FLHerne wants CDist in trunk :D
13:41<FLHerne>...it works, mostly, and adds muchly to the game :P
13:42*andythenorth biab
13:42<FLHerne>biab?
13:42<Terkhen>back in a bit
13:43*FLHerne needs a big list of weird acronyms and abbreviations :P
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13:43<Terkhen>FLHerne: the problem with both YACD and cargodist (as IIRC there was a cargodist version which worked in top of YACD) is game performance
13:43<Terkhen>on top*
13:44<Terkhen>I don't know the details, but IIRC michi mentioned the problem somewhen at the forums
13:44<Terkhen>I also don't know if that holds true for the standalone implementation of cargodist
13:44<FLHerne>Terkhen: Odd, I have a few pretty big CDist games on my old 2.2GHz PIV ;-)
13:44<FLHerne>YACD seems to attract a lot of those, but I dislike that concept and haven't tried it much :P
13:45<Terkhen>what does "big" means?
13:45<FLHerne>Terkhen: Vehicle numbers of each type into the hundreds, 1k^2 or 2k^2 maps
13:46<FLHerne>Often with 'high' FIRS industries, too
13:46<Terkhen>but in this case the dest/dist related performance decrease is probably tied to increase of node numbers
13:46<FLHerne>Terkhen: You haven't seen one of my stupid networks, have you? :P
13:47<Terkhen>I don't know about the performance problems themselves myself so I can't give you details :)
13:48<FLHerne>Well, whatever they are I seem to have missed them :D
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14:04<andythenorth>iirc YACD recalculates routing for all packets waiting on stations every n ticks
14:04<andythenorth>which is a problem
14:04<andythenorth>it is a battery killer :P
14:04<andythenorth>but that's a specific feature
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14:10*andythenorth wonders if we could *remove* features and maintain savegame compatibility
14:11<andythenorth>"Feature: removed a feature"
14:12<planetmaker>yes, that's feasible. But depends a bit on the feature
14:13<planetmaker>e.g. if you remove path signals as feature just treat them as normal block signals. Screws up savegames somewhat, but would still work in a certain way
14:14<andythenorth>he
14:14<andythenorth>trains would crash :)
14:15<andythenorth>anyway, these discussions are fun, but....
14:15<andythenorth>...a bit navel gazing.
14:15<andythenorth>what can we actually commit?
14:15<supermop>need some lunch but cant leave here
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14:16<planetmaker>we also already removed features. Path signals were once removed. Flipping all engines independent of their newgrf specs was removed. Certainly other things, too ;-)
14:16<NGC3982>Poop.
14:16<Wolf01>evenink
14:16<planetmaker>But we call that cleanup or so ;-)
14:16<supermop>can you remove coal mines as a feature?
14:17<supermop>sure no one would notice
14:17*planetmaker would. It's the default starting industry for me
14:17<planetmaker>but feasible. Could all be displayed as power plants
14:17<Wolf01>forests for me
14:17<planetmaker>will I now be quoted on "pm wants to remove coal mines from openttd"? :D
14:17<andythenorth>planetmaker: we could remove some FIRS snow tickets. By marking them 'done' ;)
14:18<supermop>haha
14:18<supermop>i've been strying a steel valley goal game
14:19<supermop>unfortunately i have only 3 years left, there are only two iron ore mines on the map, and both produce around 30 tonnes despite having two stations with a vehicle always loading at each
14:20<planetmaker>:-)
14:20<planetmaker>Fund industries
14:20<FLHerne>andythenorth: Can I add a pile of 32bppEZ tickets? :D
14:20<supermop>cant afford to build more mines
14:20<planetmaker>We won our games by vigorously funding industries
14:20<andythenorth>supermop: you need a money maker first, probably pax
14:20<planetmaker>doesn't hte GS take care of cheap industry costs?
14:20<andythenorth>nope
14:20<supermop>i could build one mine in the three years if i am lucky
14:20<andythenorth>GS has no capability there :P
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14:21<planetmaker>and yes, what andy says. We always built a money maker first
14:21<supermop>yeah, i have an aggressive passenger, coal and oil network to build up money
14:21*andythenorth would badly like a clean interface between GS and newgrf :(
14:21<andythenorth>but that discussion never gets anywhere :(
14:22<planetmaker>spec it
14:22<andythenorth>tried
14:22<andythenorth>not smart enough :(
14:22<andythenorth>I have limitations :P
14:22<planetmaker>wiki pages like frosch's pages on the "utopian" stuff are quite useful in this resepct
14:23<supermop>can gs work with firs?
14:23<andythenorth>yesbutnobut
14:24<andythenorth>I think GS is the single biggest win for the game in several years
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14:24<andythenorth>despite being a bit 'meh' about it initially
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14:24<supermop>its awesome
14:25<andythenorth>means we can talk about stuff like gameplay and strategy
14:25<supermop>but you cant count on it for making a quick 128^2 map fun
14:25<andythenorth>and not just 'I need feature xyz to make my perfect model train set'
14:25<supermop>because you won't have enough some primary industry
14:26<andythenorth>I would write a GS if I didn't already have lots of newgrf started...
14:26<supermop>i just want a gs that makes power plants worth something
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14:27<andythenorth>you could write one
14:27<andythenorth>it would be tied to specific industry ID and quite fragile
14:27<andythenorth>afaik
14:27<andythenorth>what do you want? Town growth if coal delivered?
14:28<andythenorth>I had one idea called The Grid or something
14:28<andythenorth>5 towns want power plants *constructed* and supplied with x tonnes per year
14:29<andythenorth>it's just another cargo delivery challenge though :P
14:29<Zuu>supermop: GS can make powerplants worth something.
14:30<Zuu>Eg. play NoCarGoal or Silicon Valley with coal as goal cargo.
14:31<supermop>growth or industry boost would be nice, but the latter sounds impossible
14:31<andythenorth>not impossible
14:31<andythenorth>just totally lacking a spec
14:32<supermop>does the gs just check nearby plants for coal delivered then build a house?
14:32<andythenorth>it tells the town to grow
14:32<andythenorth>the town then handles that
14:32<andythenorth>unless the newgrf fucks with it :P
14:32<Zuu>a GS can monitor any industry for delivery and/or pickup of a specific cargo.
14:32<supermop>would it be confused by a Firs steel mill receiving coal in the towns borders?
14:32<andythenorth>yes
14:32<andythenorth>what it can't do is adjust production at the industry
14:33<andythenorth>nor meaningfully check for specific newgrf (afaik)
14:33<Zuu>A GS can also monitor towns for delivery/pickup.
14:33<andythenorth>nor understand the general idea of industry 'types'
14:33<supermop>that is growing a town because a steel mill received coal instead of a power plant
14:33<andythenorth>yes, that would likely happen
14:33<Zuu>NoCarGoal monitor all towns for delivery of all (goal) cargoes.
14:34<Pinkbeast>I thought NoCarGoal was my utopian vision of transport. :-)
14:35<Knogle>Zuu: I guess it doesn't work with 1.2.2 then?
14:35<Zuu>Knogle: Nope
14:35<Zuu>Both NoCarGoal and Silicon Valley needs a nightly as both use this monitor feature.
14:40-!-Lars [~Lars@port1199.ds1-ynoe.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
14:43<Zuu>However, that didn't stop us from having several interesting games on the #openttdcoop nightly server with those two GSs.
14:46<Knogle>:)
14:47<andythenorth>both those GS rock
15:02<supermop>would it be bad form to define a cargo via newgrf that intentionally cannot be carried?
15:02<frosch123>like "regearing"? :)
15:05<Elukka>the problem is it breaks full load
15:06<planetmaker>supermop, yes. Don't do that another time. Regearing is bad enough ;-)
15:06<frosch123>Elukka: that problem was fixed, but the grf was never updated
15:06<frosch123>back then you could not make a vehicle refittable without making it carry at least 1 unit
15:06<frosch123>today that works
15:07<frosch123>but since then people have used pax instead of a custom cargo
15:07<Elukka>sweet
15:08<FLHerne>Does that not cause trouble with station acceptance?
15:09<frosch123>no, only if it actrually loads stuff
15:09<FLHerne>Ah right :-)
15:12<frosch123>but yes, i guess that was the reasoin to introcude regearing :)
15:15<V453000>you still cant autoreplace to regeared vehicles though which kind of sucks
15:16<frosch123>you mean pax<->regearing? or nothing<->regearing?
15:16<V453000>the way how it works in nars
15:17<V453000>either way you cant set which refit should be autoreplaced to I guess
15:17<frosch123>ah, that way
15:17<V453000>it does have one interesting point, you could make trains refit to strongest, load, deliver, refit to weakerst, go back
15:18<V453000>could be fun but hard to say if worth anything
15:18<V453000>hardly :)
15:18<frosch123>orders which refit subtypes are on my list of stuff to remove though :p
15:18<V453000>?
15:19<V453000>I use those to "randomize" colours of nuts local trains :D
15:19<frosch123>there is no reliable way to store the subtype in an order
15:20<V453000>you mean it says just "refit to passengers" instead of "refit to passengers (blue)"
15:20<frosch123>there are lots of cases where they are broken. the only solution i came up with was to only allow refitting to cargos in orders, without specifiying a subtype
15:20<frosch123>V453000: if you have shared orders, different vehicles may refit to different stuff
15:20<V453000>what? :D
15:21<frosch123>fs#3764
15:21<V453000>well does that really hurt anything? If it is just a subtype then the cargo is the same?
15:22<V453000>hm
15:22<V453000>what does that mean? Does that apply only for trains with different wagons?
15:23<frosch123>with orders it also applies to different consists sharing orders
15:23<frosch123>or orders after autoreplace
15:24<V453000>so if you have various wagons in one train and refit to subtype, some wagons can refit to wrong subtype?
15:25<frosch123>yes, if you refit to coal (subtype 2), it refits all wagons carrying coal to subtype 2
15:25<frosch123>numeric 2 that is, independent of whether that subtype exists are all, or whether it means the same for each vehicle
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15:26<V453000>and does it break the capability of carrying coal?
15:26<V453000>of any of the wagons
15:26<frosch123>if you go by that forum discussion to break compatiblity
15:27<frosch123>then subtype refit orders are the first thing on the list :)
15:27<frosch123>and "subtypes in general" are the second :p
15:27<V453000>cant read all forum discussions z.z
15:27<V453000>refit orders to be removed? :o
15:27<V453000>oh subtype
15:27<V453000>nvm
15:27<frosch123>V453000: cargos are fine
15:27<frosch123>only subtypes cause trouble
15:28<frosch123>stuff like refitting firs trams to more or less wagons in depots
15:28<frosch123>would no longer work
15:28<frosch123>but it already only works by luck now
15:28<frosch123>(refitting by order that is)
15:28<V453000>I know, I am just trying to see what does it break, if it breaks actualy carrying abilities or if it just refits to wrong subtype like wrong colour
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15:31<andythenorth>subtypes should die :P
15:32<supermop>what if no vehicle can ever carry the cargo?
15:33<supermop>less gears, more megawatt hours
15:33<andythenorth>forget doing whatever you're trying to do with cargo hacks ;)
15:33<andythenorth>we've tried it n times before and always conclude that it's crappy
15:34<supermop>just so tha a powerplant makes something, even if nothing carries it away
15:36<andythenorth>there will be an alternative, good enough, way to achieve what you want
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16:26<Zuu>eg. a subtype replacement that requires the NewGRFs to define the subtypes such that their characteristics can be determined before they are built. :-)
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16:29<frosch123>night
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16:35<Wolf01>'night
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16:39<Terkhen>good night
16:41<__ln__>when will openttd have a ui-formerly-known-as-metro UI?
16:42<FLHerne> Never, hopefully :P
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16:56<Kjetil>Well. Someone is bound to add metrostations someday
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17:02<planetmaker>g'night
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17:05<andythenorth>Zuu: you don't think it's good enough that subtypes are just a [made up] number?
17:05<andythenorth>arbitrary per cargo type
17:05-!-DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-62-174.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:05<andythenorth>with [possibly] some arbitrary string, the name of which can vary according to any varaction 2 switch?
17:06<andythenorth>you think that's in some way a bit...flakey? :o
17:06<Zuu>yep
17:06<Zuu>:-)
17:06<andythenorth>even though The NewGRF Spec Must Never Be Changed?
17:07<andythenorth>even when it allows, e.g. creation of invalid orders
17:07<andythenorth>or other madness
17:07<Zuu>If there was an ADA for AIs, NewGRF authors would be poor by now...
17:08<andythenorth>ADA?
17:08<Zuu>http://www.ada.gov
17:09<andythenorth>oh 508
17:09<andythenorth>etc
17:10<Zuu>Basically, if you reject disabled people access to your shop, you will get sued to the point that you cannot afford to keep your shop unless you are big.
17:10<andythenorth>yes
17:10*andythenorth sells software which must be accessible
17:10<MNIM>is that all they do apart from making horrible websites?
17:10<andythenorth>so I would like to fix some of the stuff with newgrf
17:10<MNIM>'cause *&%-ing hell their site definitely ain't accessible.
17:10<andythenorth>fix / argue in favour of fixing :P
17:11<andythenorth>MNIM: it probably scores highly on technically compliant accessibility, for those using assistive technologies
17:11<FLHerne>andythenorth: The ability to create invalid orders is a non-issue :P
17:11<andythenorth>it probably falls down on 'approach accessibility from the point of view of ease for *all* users'
17:12*FLHerne doesn't believe in foolproofing :-)
17:12<andythenorth>FLHerne: you are wrong, and I now add you to my ignore file every time we argue about it
17:12<FLHerne>:D
17:13<FLHerne>andythenorth: Admittedly, the possibility of an AI creating an invalid order may be an issue :P
17:13<FLHerne>AIs can't be assumed to have common sense :P
17:13<andythenorth>it's just a shit thing to do, shipping software which is known to be broken
17:13<andythenorth>and if you think it's common sense, that is baffling
17:14<Zuu>An AI can't create subtype orders.
17:14<FLHerne>andythenorth: 'known broken' and 'known to be easily breakable' are different :P
17:14<MNIM>andy: Their site scales neatly, and has relatively little in the form of images, Ill grant you that, but it's a nightmare for ADD / ASS, for example.
17:14<andythenorth>I can only imagine what that is like with ADD
17:14<MNIM>... aaand suddenly I just realized what Autism Spectrum Syndrome looks like in english, abbreviated
17:14<andythenorth>links everywhere
17:14<andythenorth>all the links!
17:15<andythenorth>links we have all the links!
17:15<MNIM>not to mention all the text!
17:15<FLHerne>I'm sure it's possible to create a NewGRF that would unpredictably create invalid orders. Doubt anyone will though
17:15<Zuu>and centered text!
17:15<MNIM>it is not a good site for scanning through and quickly finding what you need.
17:15<__ln__>all the swedes also eagerly waiting for HBO?
17:16<Elukka>FLHerne: why would one not believe in foolproofing
17:17<Zuu>I can't see where they have their site in ASL, but maybe signed translations of websites is not as big over there as it is here.
17:17<Zuu>__ln__: HBO?
17:18<andythenorth>FLHerne: I await your fix to this based on 'common sense' http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3764
17:18<andythenorth>please let frosch know when you have one
17:18<__ln__>Zuu: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBO
17:18<andythenorth>autoreplace is also 'dangerous' with subtypes
17:19<andythenorth>and this http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5268
17:19<Zuu>Hmm, there was some news about an overseas streaming service to establish in Sweden. Though the wiki page doesn't say anything about streaming.
17:20<andythenorth>empirically, you have no evidence that subtypes don't cause bug reports
17:20<__ln__>Zuu: see also http://hbonordic.com/se
17:20<FLHerne>Elukka: Because it's impossible :P
17:20<andythenorth>empirically I have evidence that subtypes do cause bug reports
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17:21<FLHerne>andythenorth: That bug is silly :P
17:21<FLHerne>It is a bug though
17:21*FLHerne concedes defeat on that case :-)
17:21<andythenorth>why silly?
17:21<Zuu>hmm, so according to their sales site, they will offer streaming.
17:22<FLHerne>Dunno, really :P
17:22<__ln__>Zuu: indeed. it's something completely new afaik, they haven't offered it anywhere else so far.
17:23<Zuu>Hopefully they will be better than BBC on carrying over the English closed captions to the nordic market. At least one can wish. :-)
17:23<andythenorth>bye
17:23-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:24<__ln__>sounds almost too good to be true, the price and all.
17:25<Zuu>__ln__: Do you get prices? I onle see a posibility to give away your email to them.
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17:26<__ln__>it's on twitter, 79kr per month for you, 9,95€ for us. https://twitter.com/hbose
17:26<Zuu>Ok
17:27<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r24577 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2012-10-08 21:27:21 UTC)
17:27<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5324]: Draw the window resize sprite bottom-aligned (sbr)
17:27<__ln__>after all these years someone finally is going to offer a _legal_ way to follow at least some american tv series without a significant delay.
17:30<Zuu>Yea, too bad I don't follow any of the mentioned series. :-p
17:31<FLHerne>What on earth is variety distribution for?
17:31<FLHerne>Its only purpose appears to be making pyramidal mountains :P
17:31<Zuu>But I'm looking forward to better movie-on-demand services.
17:31<__ln__>Well Netflix is coming this year...
17:32<Zuu>yep
17:32<__ln__>Netflix explicitly promises to support PS3, Wii, Xbox
17:33<__ln__>(but not newgrf!)
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18:19<antihero>Good evening
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18:22<Supercheese>salve
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21:22<hmmwhatsthisdo>How might I reverse an extra zoom patch on an oTTD install that was upgraded from 1.1.x to 1.2.2?
21:24<hmmwhatsthisdo>Should I just reinstall?
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 09 00:00:36 2012