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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-10-10

---Logopened Wed Oct 10 00:00:37 2012
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05:03<@peter1138>Morning good.
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05:36<bolli>In NML, is there any way to make 2 refittable selections for cargo types?
05:37<bolli>So: Passenger Carriage 1 and Passenger Carriage 2...
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05:45<NGC3982>I don't really know anything about that, but i do know that graphics can be changed with different number of wagons.
05:45<NGC3982>Although, i do not know if it's simply random, or calculated by x amount of wagons.
05:45<NGC3982>If the latter is true, you should be abled to also alter settings for different wagons.
05:45<NGC3982>able*
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>bolli: yes, with the cargo subtype callback
06:02<bolli>thanks :)
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06:37<@peter1138>__ln__, any tidbits of English for us to learn today?
06:59<NGC3982>Hihi
06:59<NGC3982>Tidbits..
07:07-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@eduroam-89.felk.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd
07:10<__ln__>Does 8 tidbits make a tidbyte?
07:18<NGC3982>Tit-bits*
07:19<V453000>I ALWAYS read it that way ^
07:20<TyrHeimdal>lol, I just read a funny story explaining why Hell is exothermic ^^
07:21<planetmaker>yes, hell of a girl.
07:22<TyrHeimdal>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1191057/Hell%20is%20exothermic.jpg
07:22<TyrHeimdal>close :P
07:23<TyrHeimdal>I should say re-read, I saw it a few years back as well
07:24<@peter1138>Well, titbits _is_ correct as well.
07:25<V453000>:D
07:25<planetmaker>TyrHeimdal, and exactly for that text I wrote my answer ;-) It all boils down to that girl mentioned in the last paragraph ;-)
07:25<TyrHeimdal>yeap!
07:26<planetmaker>but linking to text as text instead of image is better readable...
07:26<TyrHeimdal>hmmm, the baby has slept for almost 2.5 hours now...
07:27<TyrHeimdal>planetmaker: I found the pic shared on FB
07:27<TyrHeimdal>I would have shared the text if that was what I found
07:27<planetmaker>hell exotherm gives you zillions copies of that text ;-)
07:27<TyrHeimdal>probably
07:27<TyrHeimdal>but that would have ment a search...and you all know how good I am at searching :P
07:28<@peter1138>__ln__, your turn?
07:29<__ln__>I wasn't expecting the British inquisition.
07:29<TyrHeimdal>nah, one would only expect the spanish one
07:29<TyrHeimdal>they sent warnings by letter 2 weeks in advance
07:30*planetmaker brings a torch. Where's the pyre?
07:30<planetmaker>or stake? dunno which is the right word. Or both.
07:31<TyrHeimdal>stake's in the pyre...isn't it?
07:31<@peter1138>That depends on what you wanted to do.
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07:32<planetmaker>burn! burn! burn! ;-)
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07:32<TyrHeimdal>I should go see if the kid is still alive... but I'm afraid I'll wake her if I go to check
07:33<TyrHeimdal>if she's sleeping
07:33<planetmaker>kids sleep tight
07:33<TyrHeimdal>yeah, but it's usually just a 30-60 minute nap at this hour
07:33<TyrHeimdal>hitting 2.5 hours now ^^
07:35<planetmaker>then wake them up - unless *you* don't want to sleep the next night ;-)
07:35<TyrHeimdal>hehe, nah, the mom takes the night shift. She's got the dairy products after all
07:35<TyrHeimdal>^^
07:35<planetmaker>(however nice the current tranquility may be)
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07:49<TyrHeimdal>Sleeping like a...well...baby!
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08:03<@peter1138>What, awake every 15 minutes and crying?
08:09<TyrHeimdal>who is?
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08:23<Eddi|zuHause>"everybody who says he's sleeping like a baby, never had a baby"
08:37<Noldo>babies do sleep like babies and there is no problem with that
08:38<Noldo>the thing is that they wake up like babies too
08:41<planetmaker>how do babies wake up? In my experience like everyone else... it's just when they are awake they'll make sure you are awake, too. At least very soon
08:41<Noldo>often
08:46*NGC3982 gets a headache just thinking about it.
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09:39<Kitty>26
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10:49<NGC3982>42?
10:52<@peter1138>34
10:54<planetmaker>i
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11:00<andythenorth>would this truck autorefit? :P
11:00<andythenorth>http://www.commercialmotor.com/big-lorry-blog/super-kiwi-kenworth-logging-lorry-from-ian-and-rodders-on-biglorryblog
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11:03<V453000>andythenorth: not in my game :p
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11:07<supermop>autorefit from pine to spruce maybe?
11:08<andythenorth>:P
11:09<andythenorth>good answer
11:10<supermop>new firs economy: species specific logging
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11:11<supermop>'ooh sorry this mill only makes birch core plywood, not poplar'
11:11<planetmaker>andythenorth, looking at that truck, it could basically auto-refit to wood, steel, machine parts and wind turbines
11:12<andythenorth>supermop: new newgrf: logging
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11:12<supermop>i think a trailer that size full of steel would break
11:13<planetmaker>who says that it's loaded equally to the brim?
11:13<planetmaker>the definition of full is different
11:14<supermop>it doesn't have a flat bed to keep things from falling through
11:15<planetmaker>that's why it transports steel rails. They don't fall through
11:15<@Belugas>hello
11:16<supermop>a logging grf would be fun
11:16<@Belugas>we had a little quake last night. at 12:ish
11:16<supermop>was thinking about it last night
11:16<supermop>cool
11:16<supermop>how big?
11:16<@Belugas>was kinda frightening
11:16<@Belugas>4.5
11:16<supermop>wouldn't call that little
11:16<supermop>depending on where you live
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>i vaguely remember steel rails being transported on trains, because they come in lengths like 100-200m
11:17<@Belugas>25 kms from center
11:17*planetmaker checks neic
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>there was a quake around here in the 90's
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11:18<@Belugas>i was doing some sdk-ndk install at the time.
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>but i didn't notice anything
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>just the next day at school everybody went crazy about it
11:18<planetmaker>nice Belugas :-)
11:19<planetmaker>I find earthquakes kinda exciting :D
11:20<planetmaker>http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/usb000d3l5#summary <-- "your" quake
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11:21<@Belugas>3.9? well.. looks like somebody have not done homework at tv ;)
11:21<supermop>in a logging grf you could have managed forests of planted pines and logging camps clear cutting old growth map trees
11:22<planetmaker>what did they say in TV, Belugas ?
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11:22<planetmaker>mind that +- 0.2 is nothing to wonder about much
11:22<supermop>isn't it a log scale?
11:22<andythenorth>supermop: tree length timber, thinning, pulp wood
11:22<supermop>seems like .1 on the scale would be a lot
11:22<andythenorth>gravel from borrow pits for roads
11:23<andythenorth>sand for roads
11:23<andythenorth>fuel
11:23<andythenorth>seeds
11:23<@Belugas>they said 4.5, this morning. On papers, they said between 3.9 and 4.5
11:23<andythenorth>sawmill, papermill, logging camp, landing
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>well "our" quake was a mine collapse, not a tectonic event, though
11:23<planetmaker>it's a log scale. But given amount of data, model accuracies etc, +- 0.2 soonish after a quake is good
11:23<supermop>maybe something between the two, like logging in a national forest, cuts natural trees at a controlled sustainable rate
11:24<@Belugas>was impressive, nonetheless. We had one a few years ago, we were in a restaurant. People were almost under their tables :)
11:24<supermop>needs farm field behavior
11:24<planetmaker>not a bad choice to do in a quake :-)
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>i think a better choice would be out of the dooor
11:28<supermop>why the different climates? shouldn't climate be done via newgrf?
11:29<supermop>can newgrf add new climates rather than modifying existing?
11:30<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, out of the door is the worst choice during a quake
11:30<planetmaker>as most people die in quakes due to pieces falling off buildings onto them in the streets
11:30<planetmaker>supermop, no, they can't
11:30<supermop>planetmaker: but you need to take a video of the shaking buildings to put on youtube to get lots of views!
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>well, probably depends on the strength of the quake
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>but the stronger the quake, the less likely a table is going to help you
11:31<planetmaker>stand *in* a door is also good
11:31<planetmaker>and yes, Eddi|zuHause, under tables or doors is the general advise given
11:32<planetmaker>I've been through the drills. And it makes sense when you look at typical damages in EQs
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>i'll try to remember that in the next quake :p
11:33<planetmaker>if the building collapses, it'll hit you inside or outside. If you're outside another collapsing building will also get you
11:33<planetmaker>and typically they don't last long enough so that you can get away from a building in a significant manner
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>depends on how far you can get away from any buildings
11:34<planetmaker>typical duration is of the order of a minute
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>well, it might be a series of quakes, and the first one "just" destabilises the building, one of the following quakes makes it collapse
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>you may wonder how much you can do in one minute if adrenaline is flowing :p
11:36<planetmaker>and join the panic?
11:37<planetmaker>generally you have sufficient time after a quake to evacuate the building when the immediate danger is gone
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11:38<planetmaker>aftershocks are common. But they are distinct events. So you have time to evacuate in good order
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11:57<@peter1138>I remember the quake we had here.
11:59<@peter1138>Hmm, 10 years ago, heh.
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12:19<@Alberth>moin
12:20<planetmaker>salut Alberth
12:24<@Alberth>let's do a bit of index generating :)
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12:34<@Alberth>hi hi
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12:51<LordAro>hi alls
12:51<planetmaker>hi lobster
12:51<planetmaker>hm... LordAro ;-)
12:51<lobster>hurrrrrrrr
12:52<LordAro>autocomplete fail :P
12:52<LordAro>hi mr planet
12:53<@Alberth>evenink
12:56<LordAro>hi Alberth
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13:37<andythenorth>does tt-forums eat other people's login cookie every hour or so?
13:37<andythenorth>or do I need to have a stern word with my browser?
13:38<@Alberth>it works for me
13:38<@Alberth>maybe you change IP?
13:39-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009b2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:39<@Alberth>ie I usually have such problems when accessing the forums from 2 computers without logging out each time
13:39<@Alberth>moin frosch
13:40<frosch123>hai albert :)
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13:40<andythenorth>I do change IP yes
13:40<andythenorth>I thought it was just Safari being a crap browser
13:41<@Alberth>nah, the forums are 'smart' :p
13:41<frosch123>andy was banned from tt-forums?
13:43<@Alberth>(07:47:06 PM) andythenorth: does tt-forums eat other people's login cookie every hour or so?
13:45<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/firs_report/ <-- andy, something to read in the meantime :p
13:45<andythenorth>woah
13:45*andythenorth feels the need to style that :P
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24583 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2012-10-10 17:45:30 UTC)
13:45<andythenorth>where's the source? :P
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
13:45<@DorpsGek>german - 2 changes by planetmaker
13:45<@DorpsGek>italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<@DorpsGek>russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 2 changes by Terkhen
13:52<@Alberth>andythenorth: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml-common/repository/changes/nml_langcheck.py
13:53<Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> does tt-forums eat other people's login cookie every hour or so? <-- i loose mine every few days
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13:55<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but make sure you didn't set "private browsing" or something, and you checked "keep my login"
13:55<fonsinchen>TrueBrain: The windows builds of cargodist seem to have some trouble finding the last SVN version.
13:55<fonsinchen>see http://farm.openttd.org/browse/OTTD3PT-CD-W64BIT-51
13:55<fonsinchen>for example
13:56<fonsinchen>that '&' in my rev.cpp is right after the SVN version which must have been retrieved by some other script
13:56<fonsinchen>if the version number is missing this is interpreted as "address of" and thus the compile error.
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14:00<fonsinchen>Also there is this warning in road_cmd.cpp, which stems from trunk
14:00<fonsinchen>..\src\road_cmd.cpp(798): warning C4800: 'RoadBits' : forcing value to bool 'true' or 'false' (performance warning) [C:\bamboo-agent-home\xml-data\build-dir\OTTD-NIGHTLY-W32BIT\projects\openttd_vs100.vcxproj]
14:00<fonsinchen>I guess we can make that an '&&' indeed.
14:00<supermop>does mail exist under Firs?
14:03<FLHerne>Yes
14:03<supermop>couldn't remember
14:04<supermop>could you load a newgrf after firs that adds one more industry but no new cargoes?
14:04<supermop>or are all the industry slots taken?
14:05<@Belugas>iirc, there should be 64 available
14:05<FLHerne>supermop: FIRS leaves one spare, IIRC
14:05<supermop>I see...
14:05<FLHerne>andythenorth would be the person to ask though ;-)
14:06<FLHerne>I think that was in case of regearing or whatever
14:06<supermop>Hahah, i was expecting he would have chimed in
14:06<supermop>anyway
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14:07<supermop>would it be more or less fun to add a modern fulfillment center? a simple industry that accepts goods and produces mail
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14:08<supermop>that is, like an amazon warehouse, where they receive products from the manufacturer, then send them out as express parcels via post, fedex, or similar
14:10<supermop>i assume mail pays more highly given a timely delivery than goods, but i am not sure. If so, it could be interesting from a gameplay/fun perspective
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14:11<Wolf01>evenink
14:11<supermop>does that sound fun?
14:11<supermop>or tedious?
14:12<Wolf01>if you are talking about the cancellation of baumgartner jump, it's tedious
14:17<andythenorth>my icon designer is called baumgartner
14:17<andythenorth>wonder if he's related :P
14:18<Prof_Frink>Does he have a problem with wind?
14:18<andythenorth>supermop: this is reasonably accurate for FIRS: http://www.tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/economies
14:18<andythenorth>not 100%, but close enough
14:21<supermop>does that sound fun andy? or would a 2x2 house on the edge of town be better
14:21<andythenorth>supermop: only one way to find out....test it
14:21<andythenorth>"industries as houses" has issues
14:21<andythenorth>better to just do industry
14:22<supermop>house would b visually smaller and have no correlation between goods delivered and mail produced - might not be able to fill a mail truck quick enough.
14:22<andythenorth>also doesn't appear on map
14:22<andythenorth>and has different rules for closure, opening etc
14:22<supermop>an industry that deals only in goods and mail is pretty close to a house already though
14:22<@Alberth>fonsinchen: != 0 seems a better solution to me
14:22<andythenorth>it doesn't add much to gameplay no, it's just might be interesting to you
14:23<supermop>you could find one in every town like a stadium though
14:23<supermop>which might be too many
14:23<andythenorth>can limit the number on the map
14:23<andythenorth>can check the number of towns too
14:23<supermop>does the default steel mill produce passengers, or accept passengers?
14:23<andythenorth>think it accepts on a couple of tiles
14:24<supermop>ah
14:25<supermop>if it was the other way around one could make it so that the warehouse was always producing some trickle of mail
14:36<fonsinchen>&& checks both for != 0; & does the potentially expensive bit operation and then still one check for != 0 ...
14:36<fonsinchen>but probably it doesn't matter that much
14:37<fonsinchen>actually if the first one is 0, then && won't even consider the second one ...
14:37<@Alberth>wouldn't && scream it needs a boolean too?
14:38<fonsinchen>I don't actually know how that windows compiler got the idea to scream there ...
14:38<@Alberth>& returns an int
14:39<fonsinchen>but we're implicitly casting int to bool all over the place, aren't we?
14:39<@Alberth>not really, the coding style says to explicitly compare
14:40<fonsinchen>Still, I have seen a few of those ...
14:40<@Alberth>I am not surprised :)
14:40<Eddi|zuHause><supermop> could you load a newgrf after firs that adds one more industry but no new cargoes? <-- FIRS does not use all industry slots by far, so you can add a great deal afterwards. there is however only one cargo slot free
14:41<andythenorth>FIRS will never use 64 industry slots
14:41<andythenorth>already, it has 'enough'
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>i agree
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>there are some more or less nasty side effects with too many industry types. especially on smaller maps
14:42<andythenorth>'some'
14:42<andythenorth>:P
14:42<andythenorth>there are more industry types than industry instances in the map gen placement code :P
14:42<andythenorth>but that is something that should be fixed :P
14:42<fonsinchen>I can't find an example right now, though.
14:43<fonsinchen>Maybe they're not that frequent after all.
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14:44<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: there's no guarantee that existing code adheres to the coding style :p
14:45<fonsinchen>Well, anyway: The compiler says 'performance warning', so I was thinking in that direction.
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15:11<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24584 /trunk/src/script/api (4 files) (2012-10-10 19:11:22 UTC)
15:11<@DorpsGek>-Doc: [Script] Improve API documentation.
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16:10<supermop>how many trees fit on a tile?
16:10<Kjetil>10E-e
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>why don't you just try?
16:19<supermop>can't build trees in ottd while at work
16:20<__ln__>why not
16:24<bolli>Interesting...
16:25<bolli>Something just spassed up in my internet and a whole lot of things got sent twice...
16:25<bolli>Openttd just responded by doubling what I was doing- buying trains and then kicked me saying protocol error :|
16:27<bolli>Is it acceptable behaviour to duplicate things? :p
16:27<planetmaker>if you're a xerox, then I assume 'yes'
16:28<bolli>:| I'm not a printer....
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16:33<Kjetil>Are you a copying machine ?
16:33<Kjetil>damn it
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16:40<Wolf01>'night
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21:54<supermop>hi
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