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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-10-12

---Logopened Fri Oct 12 00:00:39 2012
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03:12<andythenorth>oh dear
03:13<NataS>oh dear what?
03:13<andythenorth>all these steam ships
03:13<andythenorth>and no smoke for them
03:20<Markk>Puff puff, pass.
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03:25<andythenorth>"Something ought to be done about it"
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03:48<@planetmaker>good morning
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03:57<NGC3982>Morning, people and cephalopods.
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04:01<Warod>w 35
04:02<@planetmaker>there are test channels...
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04:36<__ln__>for swedophone people:
04:39<Markk>But __ln__ isn't Swede, right?
04:39<__ln__>of course not.
04:40<__ln__>men den hela världen talar ju svenska, eller?
04:40<Markk>Otherwise correct. :)
04:41<Markk>WHy do you know (some) Swedish? :D
04:41<__ln__>eftersom det är obligatoriskt att lära sig svenska i skolan här.
04:42<Markk>Are you finnish?
04:42<Markk>I thought that you were a German guy.
04:42<Markk>Like the rest.
04:43*Alberth is auch a German guy ausch der Niederlanden
04:44<Markk>Nederlands <3
04:44<__ln__>Markk: a german guy like the rest of germans, dutch, unitedstatesian, and czech people in here
04:46*andythenorth is not a german guy
04:47<Markk>I though so. :D
04:47<Markk>Is Eddi|zuHause the only one, or what?
04:47<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause is not german
04:47<NGC3982>__ln__ is a bit German, yet Finnish.
04:48<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause is from New Zealand
04:48<andythenorth>planetmaker is Russian
04:48*NGC3982 is from Ursa Major.
04:48<Markk>But speaking of Das Bundesrepublik Deutschland, I met a (really cute) German girl for a couple of weeks ago.
04:48<Markk>And she asked if I knew any German.
04:48<andythenorth>this story will end badly I think
04:49<Markk>(I can say some words and phrases, but not more than that).
04:49<Markk>andythenorth: Ja genau.
04:49<andythenorth>for ships!
04:49<Markk>"Ich hätte lust mit großen tieren"
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04:51<__ln__>i've been speaking swedish with two different german persons during the past year.
04:51<Markk>andythenorth: Was that a bit harsh?
04:52<andythenorth>dunno, I dropped out the channel ;)
04:52<Markk>I saw that. :)
04:52<Markk>andythenorth: Do you speak German?
05:00<NGC3982>And so on.
05:00<NGC3982>My body do not house any systems that use the German language.
05:00<__ln__>Gebühreneinzugszentrale and so on.
05:02<NGC3982>Although, we have some Andorians, some Edo's and a damned infestation of Ferengi.
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05:03<Knogle>Hot coffee is hot.
05:03<@Alberth>Hot pepper is not
05:03<NGC3982>Markk is kinda hot.
05:07<Knogle>How often are translation changes commited? if it's even an automated process.
05:07<@Alberth>once a day
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05:26<Terkhen>good morning
05:30<@planetmaker>19:45h CEST, Knogle
05:34<Knogle>Thanks :)
05:36<andythenorth>bonjour Terkhen
05:38<TyrHeimdal>hej, hej allihopa!
05:39<NGC3982>TyrHeimdal: Hej på dig också.
05:39<NGC3982>Lot's of Swedish here, today.
05:39<NGC3982>Better replace my babelfish.
05:40<TyrHeimdal>Well, I'm Norwegian, actually :P
05:40<TyrHeimdal>just did that to throw you off ;)
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07:19<__ln__>oh, i've won the nobel prize.
07:20<@Alberth>unfortunately, you have to share it with many other people :p
07:20<__ln__>i'm not sure i want it as it's the one usually given to war criminals.
07:20<NGC3982>The peace price?
07:20<__ln__>that one.
07:21<dada__>ah yeah if I was given the peace price I'd probably ask "what did I do wrong?"
07:31<NGC3982>I fail to see how a vague definition as peace can be given without controversy.
07:32<@Alberth>people don't form groups to kill people of other groups?
07:35<dada__>I'm sure whatever definition anyone can come up with about peace, I'm sure it doesn't include arbitrary, extrajudicial killings though
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08:39<@planetmaker>which person doesn't fit: Theodore Roosevelt, Winston Churchill, Jimmy Carter, Willy Brandt, Barack Obama, Mikhail Gorbachev?
08:40<@planetmaker>(and why?) :D
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08:41<V453000>EU? :)
08:42<@planetmaker>if it were a person, it would fit ;-)
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>one of them is still alive? :)
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>oh, actually more than one
08:43<@planetmaker>that I don't know... :-)
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>afaik, Carter and Gorbi are still alive (and obama, obviously)
08:44<@planetmaker>indeed, I think that's true
08:45<@planetmaker>so "being alive" is not the criterion :-)
08:46<@planetmaker>Martti Ahtisaari would also fit
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08:47<@planetmaker>as Kim Daw-jung
08:47<@planetmaker>and Nelson Mandela, Yitzhak Rabin and Frederik de Klerk
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>according to wikipedia, churchill got the nobel price for literature
08:49<dada__>I'd say willy brandt is the odd guy in that list because he didn't have the opportunity to kill people by the thousands-to-millions
08:49<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, won the cookie :-)
08:49<dada__>actually, neither did gorbachev.
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>well, gorbi did have the opportunity, but he didn't follow through
08:50<@planetmaker>all are politicians who governed a country and all but Churchill got the nobel peace price
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>(otherwise i'd probably not be talking to you guys)
08:50<@planetmaker>very much indeed
08:52<dada__>I'm not that well versed in soviet history, but it's my understanding that although he might have had the opportunity, the union was already largely decaying by that time, and there just was no use in trying to use such extreme violence to control people at that point
08:52<dada__>would like to hear your view on that, since you were there
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>i was 8...
08:53<dada__>in 1989 when the wall fell I was 2, so :)
08:53<@planetmaker>when the first arms reduction treaty between Gorbachev and Reagon was signed I was about... 11
08:54<@planetmaker>unless my history knowledge is bad (quite likely) and I was even younger then ;-)
08:54<dada__>that was 1991
08:54<@planetmaker>I think it was 1987
08:54<dada__>unless you mean the ratification date in 1994
08:54<dada__>let me check
08:55<supermop>reagan wasn't president anymore in 91
08:55<dada__>The treaty was signed on 31 July 1991 and entered into force on 5 December 1994.[1] according to wikipedia
08:55<@planetmaker>one treaty. But not the first ;-)
08:55<dada__>oh, I thought you meant START
08:56<@planetmaker>That's the first thing I remember to have seen on TV
08:56<@planetmaker>my mom or dad told me that it's supposedly a historic treaty. I think they were right
08:58<@planetmaker>as it's the beginning of the end of the cold war
08:58<Eddi|zuHause>my memory of seeing something on TV in 1987 is of the "Sportfest" in Leipzig, where they had this huge number of people holding up coloured plates, so they become pictures when viewed from further away
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>the next big thing on tv i remember is the railway parade in riesa
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>which according to google was in april 1989
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09:08<dada__>come to think of it, I have no idea what my earliest memories of TV are
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>(celebration was about 150 years of long-distance-railway Dresden-Leipzig)
09:08<dada__>I would like to take that railway sometime
09:08<dada__>I was gonna go to finland by rail a week ago, but plans didn't work out so we're gonna do it later
09:09<dada__>(from the netherlands)
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>they have brand new "Hamsterbacken" now
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>for certain values of "brand new" :p
09:10<dada__>i'm a bit skeptical about new trains. it seems that with every new generation of trains, the seats become less comfortable.
09:10<dada__>or maybe that's only in the netherlands
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>(they were standing for years on the railyard, because they didn't get approved for traffic)
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>but Leipzig and Dresden are not exactly on a direct route from the netherlands to finland :p
09:11<dada__>oh well, I will just play with my digital trains a bit more
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>of course i have other memorys of TV, but they're more generic, so i can't place them on a timeline
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>one memory is that we got a brand new colour tv (must be around christmas), and very quickly the sound died, so we had the old TV behind the sofa making the sound, and the new TV making the picture
09:15<supermop>that's ingenuity
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>it's probably not easy to get a TV repaired around christmas/newyear
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>back then, it wasn't even easy to get a TV in the first place
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09:17<supermop>i can imagine
09:18<__ln__>zomg, i thought gdr and soviet electronics never failed because it wasn't designed with 'planned obsolescence' in mind.
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>my mother told me that story once, she was standing in line in the TV store when it opened up. they said "we have 40 TVs", and then everybody stormed in, and whoever got their hand on the TV first would get it.
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: it might have involved me playing around with a magnet, but my memory is vague about that
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09:19<Eddi|zuHause>gtg now
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09:33<si-m1>how do they work?!
09:38<MNIM>ask O'Neill!
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13:03<FLHerne>andythenorth: Now both CDist and FISH support autorefit, I can misuse them both rather more :-)
13:03<FLHerne>Autorefittable trams, please :D
13:04<andythenorth>FLHerne: yeah
13:04<andythenorth>I'll just do that
13:04<andythenorth>did you provide a spec yet?
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13:09<FLHerne>andythenorth: Nope :P
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13:10<andythenorth>let me know when you know what you want it to do
13:10<FLHerne>Also, all my non-track CHIPS tiles have been replaced with what appear to be av8 seaplanes
13:10<andythenorth>try upgrading to latest CHIPS
13:10<FLHerne>I think I did
13:10<andythenorth>also...did you switch it on and off again?
13:10<FLHerne>Then I moved them up and down the grf-list...
13:11<andythenorth>if it's a reproducible issue with 1.0.1 provide a report here:
13:11<andythenorth>it's likely a recurrence of a similar issue we thought fixed
13:11<FLHerne>Yes, it's 1.0.1
13:11<andythenorth>bad sprites on non track tiles right?
13:11<andythenorth>for all railtypes? or just some?
13:11<FLHerne>Only intermittent, too
13:12<FLHerne>andythenorth: Haven't tried that. One moment...
13:13<FLHerne>All types
13:13<andythenorth>Yexo: :(
13:13<FLHerne>Now some of them are water, and some have track on them :D
13:13<FLHerne>Some have water, track *and* seaplanes :P
13:13<andythenorth>sounds like more andythenorth-failure-to-provide-proper-offsets :(
13:14<FLHerne>Well, it works sometimes
13:14*FLHerne plays to find out what 'sometimes' means
13:14<andythenorth>is it broken for buy menu?
13:14<andythenorth>did you upgrade this game from CHIPS 1.0.0?
13:15<FLHerne>Hey, I got an error :-) dbg: [sprite] Tried to load normal sprite #0 as a recolour sprite. Probable cause: NewGRF interference
13:15*andythenorth leaving
13:15<FLHerne>No, I didn't. Recently-started
13:15<andythenorth>Yexo knows better what might cause this (I hope) :)
13:15<FLHerne>andythenorth: Have fun :-)
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13:19<Yexo>FLHerne: which openttd version?
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13:21<FLHerne>Yexo: Current CDist (based off some recent svn version). I can try with the same NewGRF combination in stable if you wish
13:22<Yexo>chips requires a recent openttd version
13:22<Yexo>problem: the version check is probably missing (or not checking for recent enough version) and I have no clue what exactly the requirement is
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13:27<FLHerne>Yexo: It's based off r245xx?
13:29<FLHerne>As in, within a couple of dozen revisions of the latest svn versio
13:40<FLHerne>That's odd, saving (but not reloading) the game unglitches it temporarily :o
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24586 trunk/src/lang/danish.txt (2012-10-12 17:45:09 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>danish - 59 changes by Knogle
13:45<FLHerne>Oh well, I can always use my incomplete object version for that :-)
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14:32<DanMacK>Hey all
14:33<DanMacK>Andy been around today?
14:34<Lakie>About an hour 15 minutes ago?
14:34<DanMacK>Cool. Might catch him tomorrow then
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14:35*Prof_Frink pokes DanMacK with andythenorth
14:35<DanMacK>Were your ears ringing andy?
14:35<andythenorth>lo DanMacK
14:36<DanMacK>We have ship smoke?
14:36<andythenorth>not in a way we can use ;)
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14:37<DanMacK>Whats up w/the smoke?
14:38<andythenorth>insufficient control
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14:43<andythenorth>come back DanMacK
14:43<andythenorth>won't you come back
14:44<FLHerne>andythenorth: Smoke? WHat changed?
14:44<andythenorth>oh when are you coming back?
14:44*FLHerne remembers andythenorth moaning about the stuff at regular intervals :P
14:45<andythenorth>yeah you better hurry back
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14:59<andythenorth>FLHerne: are you using a patched OpenTTD with the CHIPS bug>
15:10<FLHerne>andythenorth: I'm sure I mentioned that. Yes.
15:10*FLHerne tries with an svn version
15:10<andythenorth>all bets are off then
15:14<FLHerne>andythenorth: Repeatable with trunk r24545
15:14<FLHerne>Which is what I happen to have just now :P
15:14<andythenorth>screenshot + post a report?
15:14<andythenorth>with your newgrf list too I guess
15:15<FLHerne>Screenshots have a built-in one, don't they?
15:16<andythenorth>dunno ;)
15:17<FLHerne>devzone, or thread?
15:17<FLHerne>Do you care?
15:27<FLHerne>One of my nice flocks of airliners:
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15:30<Wolf01>'lo o/
15:36<andythenorth>FLHerne: devzone
15:39<FLHerne>andythenorth: Too late, I threaded it :P
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15:40<FLHerne>Anyway, I forgot my devzone password :P
15:40<FLHerne>Sure I registered at some point...
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15:47<@planetmaker>FLHerne, if you know your account name, I can reset it...
15:48<FLHerne>planetmaker: I can't remember that for sure either :P
15:48*FLHerne isn't a frequent devzone user ;-)
15:49<andythenorth>can reset your own password :P
15:49<FLHerne>Oh well, I will just continue to play OTTD
15:50*andythenorth wonders
15:50<FLHerne>I have newobjects that provide the same sprites anyway :D
15:50<andythenorth>how much capacity to give the big paddle steamer
15:50<andythenorth>RL is 920
15:50<andythenorth>currently I have 620
15:50<@planetmaker>did you provide your correct real name, FLHerne (if so which?)?
15:50<andythenorth>maybe it should be more
15:51<FLHerne>Well, it might be FLHerne or lowercase equivalent :P
15:51*FLHerne isn't sure :-(
15:51<FLHerne>Perhaps I should make another :-)
15:51<FLHerne>andythenorth: What's the small(er) PS?
15:52<andythenorth>this one is intended as a significantly bigger ship
15:52<andythenorth>not just 'a bit more'
15:52<andythenorth>this is 'a lot more'
15:52<FLHerne>Yeah, 600ish sounds good. I could use that
15:52*FLHerne has seven of the existing kind on a 15-tile trip currently
15:53<FLHerne>A Josephine-size PS would be nice :-)
15:53<FLHerne>Perhaps a little bigger - 120-odd
15:55<andythenorth>got a pixel editor?
15:55<FLHerne>Yes, but I'm not very good with it yet :P
15:56*FLHerne is on one sloped groundtile a fornight :-)
15:56<FLHerne>I could have a go sometime, I guess
15:57<andythenorth>there is a long list of ships to draw
15:58*FLHerne would like more shipping variety :-)
15:58<FLHerne>How come river barges in the 1920s are 50% faster than ocean-going ships?
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16:01<@Belugas>going with the current?
16:01<andythenorth>need some older barges
16:01<@planetmaker>you can build ships longer. You don't need to attribute for ... sea conditions
16:01<andythenorth>the early ocean-going ships are probably too slow :P
16:01<@Belugas>barges were toed by horses?
16:01<@planetmaker>10 knots :-)
16:01<andythenorth>they have to be slower to provide stats progression in the newer ships
16:02<andythenorth>law of ottd is 'bigger, faster'
16:02<@Belugas>there is no sea-horse powerfull enough to tow a boat
16:02<@Belugas>[16:01] <andythenorth> law of ottd is 'bigger, faster' <- my wife's wish, too...
16:03<andythenorth>FLHerne: if you pull the FISH repo and build, you get a new boat
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16:09<FLHerne>Stupid networking
16:09<andythenorth>frosch123: smoke!
16:10<andythenorth>I ....could.... try and write a patch for it :P
16:10<FLHerne>fonsinchen: CDist works nicely with autorefit now, thanks :-)
16:10<@planetmaker>andythenorth, you should pester Hirund0 :-P
16:10<fonsinchen>good to hear that. It was kind of a fight ...
16:10<andythenorth>he got bored of me last time I did that :(
16:11<andythenorth> has some ideas
16:11<FLHerne>fonsinchen: Now I can create the most overconvoluted network ever! :-)
16:12*FLHerne plans to link every industry on the map to every other one :-)
16:12<fonsinchen>There is one inherent problem in autorefit. I don't know if it's also there in trunk
16:12<FLHerne>fonsinchen: Which is?
16:13<fonsinchen>If you send a vehicle with the "wrong" cargo to a station that's never been visited by the "right" cargo it won't refit to the right cargo.
16:13<fonsinchen>instead it will wait forever.
16:13<FLHerne>That seems like it might be intentional
16:13<andythenorth>that's in trunk
16:13<@planetmaker>what's "wrong" cargo? You mean something which might be picked up but never has been? Yes, that's in trunk, too
16:13<FLHerne>Otherwise it would be impossible to take only one cargo from some kinds of industry
16:13<andythenorth>it's very odd
16:13<@planetmaker>Might be intention
16:13<fonsinchen>TIn cargodist this is escalated a bit
16:14<andythenorth>if more newgrfs supported autorefit, I think it would be reported as a bug more often
16:14<fonsinchen>It's done by next hop
16:14<@planetmaker>But can be annoying in some cases. But so would be changing that. Possibly in more
16:15<fonsinchen>So even if cargo is produced for the station, if for a long time no vehicle with the same next hop has transported the cargo and a vehicle comes with the "wrong" it won't be refit to the "right" one.
16:15<fonsinchen>Maybe I'm nitpicking, though.
16:16<FLHerne>fonsinchen: I think I noticed that early on, actually
16:17<FLHerne>Back when I only had a few vehicles, so wait times were enormous
16:17<frosch123>fonsinchen: known, it is meant to be solved by explicitly triggering accepting at a station
16:17<FLHerne>Not a major problem now though
16:18<FLHerne>andythenorth: I screenshotted some of your ships :-)
16:18*FLHerne needs to stop plugging screenshots :P
16:18<FLHerne>Those barges are 5mph faster than the coasters :P
16:19<fonsinchen>Be careful not to say "I'll shoot some of your planes". Police might come visiting.
16:20<FLHerne>andy hasn't drawn any yet though...?
16:20<FLHerne>A HEQS-style planeset would be awesome :D
16:20<FLHerne>An-225s and Belugas and the like
16:21<frosch123>didn't the russian planeset do something like that?
16:21<FLHerne>Perhaps. I haven't tried enough planesets :P
16:21<FLHerne>I only use av8 for the helos and airships, really :P
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16:47<@Belugas>ho... not me, the other one..
16:48*Belugas splashes
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17:09<LordAro>question: in a hexdump of a file, i have "F0 D2 00 00". I know that this, in normal numbers, equals "54000"
17:09<LordAro>how to get this (in c++)
17:10<LordAro>i have the 'characters' themselves in a std::string already...
17:10<LordAro>note: D2F0 == 54000
17:10<Rubidium>you're reading the hexdump or the binary file?
17:11<LordAro>the binary file, but that is what the hexdump says about it
17:11<Rubidium>int32_t i; fread(&i, sizeof(i), 1, fh);
17:12<Rubidium>not really c++
17:12<LordAro>the chars themselves are apparently (in order) -16, -46, 0, 0
17:12<Rubidium>hmm, isn't there like an int32_t i; fin << i; that could do the trick?
17:13<LordAro>(previous) not really, especially since i'm using ifstream, rather than the old style FILE
17:13<LordAro>i don't know...
17:13<LordAro>i already have: "return (int)arr[offset] + ((int)arr[offset + 1] << 8) + ((int)arr[offset + 2] << 16) + ((int)arr[offset + 3] << 24);"
17:13<LordAro>that works for most of them, but apparently not for this... :L
17:14<Rubidium>I'd use int32_t i; ifstream_variable >> i;
17:17<Rubidium>if you're reading bytes, then 1) cast then to unsigned char before casting them to anything else; otherwise you'll get sign extension, 2) or the chunks otherwise you might get into a mess with the sign as well
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17:32<tom47407>How do I chat in multiplayer
17:32<@planetmaker>press enter and type away
17:42<LordAro>Rubidium: done all that, but still getting "-11792" instead of "54000" :(
17:42<@planetmaker>don't use signed ints :-)
17:43<@planetmaker>and a 4-byte int... is often rather a long int, I recon. not sure, depends a bit on your platform
17:44<LordAro>i'm currently using 'long' as the file specification says, should i use something else?
17:46<LordAro>or unsigned long, if i haven't bothered with typedefs :P
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17:47<@planetmaker>for instance ;-)
17:47<LordAro>well, it's a different number: "18446744072936751104"
17:47<@planetmaker>@calc 2**32
17:47<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 4294967296
17:47<@planetmaker>can't be bigger...
17:47<@planetmaker>if you read 4 bytes
17:47<LordAro>interesting... :L
17:48<@planetmaker>@calc 2**64
17:48<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 18446744073709551616
17:48<@planetmaker>you read 8 bytes :-)
17:50<LordAro>odd :L
17:50<LordAro>i'm certain i didn't
17:51<LordAro> <-- or am i doing it wrong?
17:53<@planetmaker>LordAro, you add bytes 0-7 + bytes 1-8 + bytes 2-9 + bytes 3-10
17:53<@planetmaker>assuming that unsigned long is 8 bytes for you
17:53<LordAro>ha :L
17:53<LordAro>'unsigned short' then?
17:54<LordAro>maybe that too :L
17:55<LordAro>or, as it turns out, (char)
17:55<LordAro>(apparently there is no byte in c+ ;) )
17:58<LordAro>hmm. still no change:
17:59<LordAro>edit: fix!
17:59<LordAro>needed to be unsigned char, rather than just char
18:00<LordAro>...and i'm going now
18:02<Kjetil>why doesn't the file specification you mention use stdint-types ?
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18:18<FLHerne>Oh, andy's gone :-(
18:18<FLHerne>Do people think that a plastics plant in 1920 may be a bug?
18:31<TrueBrain>didnt know plastic grew on plants
18:31<FLHerne>TrueBrain: English language. Weird. :P
18:31<TrueBrain>trolling; fun :D
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18:42<Wolf01>'nighty night
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23:22<DanMacK>hey all
23:23<DanMacK>alot of talk on the droid version lately
23:28<DanMacK>I downloaded it as soon as I got my phone
23:29<DanMacK>Good way to test the grfs Im working on
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 13 00:00:41 2012