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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-10-15

---Logopened Mon Oct 15 00:00:45 2012
00:17<Supercheese>For downloaded grfs: http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF#Manual_install
00:21<Qoph>weird, one managed to download at some point but I can't repeat it
00:22<Qoph>Well at least I got one
00:22<Supercheese>generally GRFs and AIs are available from both the in-game content downloader and the TT-forums
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03:25<Qoph>Just to restate my issue with new info ... I can't download content with the ingame system, it gets stuck saying "Requesting files". I was somehow able to download the AIAI file at some point, but I'm not sure how. I keep getting this issue even when I turn my firewall off completely.
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03:30<@planetmaker>Qoph, what URL do you end up with when you go with your browser to binaries.openttd.org?
03:30<@planetmaker>and which files do you try to download?
03:31<@Terkhen>good morning
03:31<@planetmaker>hello Terkhen
03:31<Qoph>I get a directory with bananas, custom, extra, nightlies, releases, scenerios, robots.txt
03:31<Qoph>and I tried to download simpleAI
03:31<@planetmaker>URL...
03:31<Qoph>Oh sorry, misread that
03:31<Qoph>http://us.binaries.openttd.org/binaries/index.html
03:34<@planetmaker>ok, it's not the server then
03:34<@planetmaker>wanted to make sure that
03:35<@planetmaker>there are several which are used and you're transparently directed to the one closest to you
03:35<@planetmaker>(and which is least busy)
03:36<Qoph>can you download things? just wondering
03:36<@planetmaker>yes. just tried that
03:37<@planetmaker>@ports
03:37<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
03:37<@planetmaker>^^ you have those ports available?
03:39<Qoph>Yeah I found that on the forums and I tried to make exceptions for those
03:39<Qoph>But maybe if I make it more specific
03:41<NGC3982>Yes, that should work. Point your finger at the router and stare intently at it, while you in a hard tone say: "THREE. NINE. SEVEN. NINE. That's an order!1"
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03:43<Qoph>do I need to specify the application?
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03:45<NGC3982>Qoph: In a normal router - No, you shouldn't.
03:45<Qoph>I'm using symantec endpoint. cause my school requires it to connect.
03:46<Qoph>tried a single rule for every port but it didnt' fix anything
03:46<NGC3982>Hm.
03:46<Qoph>But like I said, disabling the firewall didn't fix it either
03:48<@planetmaker>does your router allow the ports?
03:48<Qoph>Dunno, I just plug in the ethernet cable
03:48<Qoph>and there's a wizard for the connection settings
03:50<@planetmaker>well. I don't know your local network setup. But usually people stumble over their pc's firewall and / or their router's firewall, not being aware of one or the other
03:50<@planetmaker>how to solve either issue is beyond me, as I know not your hard and software setup
03:57<NGC3982>My experience is that the Windows firewall doesn't prevent much without the user actively stoping it.
03:57<NGC3982>I would go to an administrator
03:58<Qoph>I went to the windows firewall settings and added exceptions, didn't help
03:58<Eddi|zuHause>Qoph: if you are at home, the router is usually a small blinking box next to the telephone
03:58<Qoph>I'm at school, I don't have a router
03:58<Qoph>At least, not a visible one
03:59<Eddi|zuHause>Qoph: if you are at school, the router is usually inaccessible to you
03:59<NGC3982>Something tells me that you can not setup port forwarding in a School firewall setup without administrator priviliges.
04:00<@Yexo>that shouldn't be necesary for downloading files from the online content service
04:00<Eddi|zuHause>schools usually have very strict port blocks
04:00<@Yexo>it's possible port 3978 is blocked, sure
04:00<@Yexo>but if so that's almost for certain in the router, not in the local pc
04:01<Qoph>I could send a request about it, I guess.
04:01<Qoph>Or, is there some way to configure the port it uses?
04:02<Eddi|zuHause>Qoph: not for "ordinary people"
04:03<Qoph>what does that mean?
04:04<Eddi|zuHause>Qoph: there may be an entry in openttd.cfg about using HTTP for download
04:04<Eddi|zuHause>try flipping the setting "no_http_content_downloads"
04:04<Qoph>where would I find that?
04:04<Eddi|zuHause>you quit openttd
04:05<Eddi|zuHause>then go to "My Documents\OpenTTD"
04:05<Eddi|zuHause>there you edit openttd.cfg
04:05<Eddi|zuHause>and restart openttd
04:05<Eddi|zuHause>then try again
04:06<NGC3982>That switch was new to me.
04:06<Qoph>switched it from false to true, trying again
04:07<Qoph>holy shit that worked
04:07<Qoph>thanks man
04:08*planetmaker didn't even remember that setting...
04:08<@planetmaker>legacy stuff...
04:08<NGC3982>How can that be turned on without manual alternation, anyway?
04:09<@planetmaker>not
04:09<Eddi|zuHause>you can also flip it from the console, but i doubt there's a GUI entry
04:09<@planetmaker>though... via rcon
04:09<@planetmaker>it's not supposed to have a GUI entry
04:09<@planetmaker>s/rcon/console - as eddi said :-)
04:10<NGC3982>That's why im a bit confused on that setting being turned on in the first place
04:10<NGC3982>:)
04:14<@planetmaker>NGC3982, iirc the old, first protocol for bananas was to not use http. That unconditionally accesses the main server
04:14<@planetmaker>current versions do use http which allows us to use load balancing and mirrors to distribute downloads to the closest source
04:15<@planetmaker>iirc :-)
04:15<NGC3982>Ah, i see.
04:15<NGC3982>Sounds logical.
04:15<@planetmaker>it's networking and not the area of I'm very familiar with
04:30<@peter1138>Uh, that reminds me, does it automatically failover?
04:39<NGC3982>'Failover'?
04:41<@peter1138>Detect if a server is down and automatically not use it.
04:42<@planetmaker>I think not
04:44<@peter1138>Damn.
04:45<@peter1138>I'm trying to diagnose this load issue I'm having on my server, so I've disabled LXC guests. Which includes the mirror. I still need to reconfigure the host to serve the content instead. Sadly it takes a week or so just to see if the problem pops up again. :-(
04:52<Qoph>i dunno whats funnier, that the AI made over 150 trucks or that they named all their towns random numbers
04:52<NGC3982>How Matrix-ish.
04:53<Qoph>that and they're driving on a road that spans the continent
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05:09<@peter1138>Oh bah, I fancied playing a game with high water (higher than high) and then realised you need cargo destinations to make it fun :-(
05:22<Qoph>the AI just built two airports in the same city <_<
05:22<Qoph>well time for bed anyways
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05:31<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: not entirely sure how the water is relevant there :p
05:31<NGC3982>peter1138: Cargo destinations?
05:33<andythenorth>fix up YACD :P
05:33<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, lots of water means different transport methods involved, therefore good for it.
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05:34<@peter1138>How much fixing does it need?
05:34<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i meant, _any_ game is "unfun" without destinations, water or not :)
05:34<@peter1138>Pff!
05:35<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: YACD has performance troubles, and needs a more intelligent algorithm
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05:35<@peter1138>I guess it's out of date now too?
05:36<andythenorth>yes
05:36<andythenorth>although it was / is pretty awesome all the same
05:36<@peter1138>:-(
05:36<andythenorth>just play an older rev :P
05:36<@peter1138>Heresy!
05:36<andythenorth>we need a cheaper routing algorithm
05:36<@peter1138>Is it something that throwing memory at it would help?
05:37<andythenorth>ask michi_cc
05:37<andythenorth>:)
05:37<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: there's a thread in the forum
05:39<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1049700#p1049700 something around here
05:40<@peter1138>Ah repo is ancient ;-(
05:41<NGC3982>What was the name of that NewGRF with that nice city graphics
05:41<NGC3982>Lame questions, but that's all i got :(
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know any NewGRF with nice city graphics
05:42<NGC3982>Im trying to google it, but im failing on what to search for.
05:43<@peter1138>http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/index.php?do=list&cid=3
05:43<NGC3982>Total Town Replacement!
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07:01<MNIM>NGC3982: TTRS is nice, but last time I tried, incompatible with current versions.
07:02<Ammler>MNIM: you sure, you use the updated one?
07:02<MNIM>I don't know. it's been a while, to be honest.
07:03<@planetmaker>TTRS is incompatible with what exactly?
07:03<Ammler>there are 2 sequels afaik, the one updated by ^ and ECSHouses
07:03<@planetmaker>(it should work out-of-box and should even play nice with FIRS (but not ECS)
07:08<NGC3982>MNIM: Current versions of what? OpenTTD?
07:08<NGC3982>Im currently using TTRS with FIRS on 1.2.1
07:08<NGC3982>No issues, what i can see.
07:08<NGC3982>Not that 1.2.1 is ..new or something.
07:09<@planetmaker>sufficiently new ;-)
07:09<Ammler>I assume, the erros MNIM experienced are the the reason pm made the bugfix relase
07:09<@planetmaker>(in this context)
07:09<@planetmaker>I call it feature release :D
07:09<Ammler>:-P
07:10<@peter1138>?
07:10<@planetmaker>!
07:10<Ammler>.
07:11<@peter1138>¡
07:12<@peter1138>¿
07:12<Markk>
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>þ
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07:26<NGC3982>And you people on my off-topics.
07:26<NGC3982>Oops.
07:26<NGC3982>And you people whine on my off-topics.
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07:37<Eddi|zuHause>oh, Ammler, what i've been meaning to ask: in the commit diffs (email), can you set an explicit text colour in addition to the background colour?
07:39<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: https://hg.openttdcoop.org/devzone/files/default/vendor/plugins/redmine_diff_email/app/views/diff_mailer/diff_notification.text.html.rhtml
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>"There is no file nor directory at the given path: 'vendor/plugins/redmine_diff_email/app/views/diff_mailer/diff_notification.text.html.rhtml' at revision 'cffb826a282c'"
07:43<Ammler>https://hg.openttdcoop.org/devzone/files/08b0051f565ca78d1af17a4d043d45a65417eecf/vendor/plugins/redmine_diff_email/app/views/diff_mailer/diff_notification.text.html.rhtml
07:43<Ammler>wrong branch
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>"<%= format_diff @diff %>" <-- must be in there somehow
07:49<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: possible it isn't a mail issue and generic diff format?
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>very possible. just on the website it's wrapped into a generic style, so the issue doesn't show
07:51<Eddi|zuHause>(issue being a surrounding style of light text on dark background, which makes text unreadable if background colour gets changed, but text colour not)
07:54<MNIM>Ammler: I assume the same - around that time TTRS was quite dead as far as I could see, so I never bothered following it since.
07:55<@planetmaker>ttrs is still "dead". I just fixed it so that I can use it along with FIRS
07:55<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: can you post screenshot?
07:55<@planetmaker>and added the new meta-info so that it gets nicer descriptions ingame
07:55<@planetmaker>and readme view etc
07:56<Ammler>for me, the diffs looks nice in the mails
07:57<Ammler>text is black, background is white,green or pink
07:57<@planetmaker>luckily the original authors of ttrs posessed enough foresight to allow people do this to ttrs :-)
07:58<Ammler>like https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/81/repository/revisions/2040/diff
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Bildschirmfoto18.png
07:59<Ammler>yep, that isn't readable
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>bright text on dark background being my regular KDE theme
08:00<Ammler>oh, so basically it should also define body background color and text
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>it would suffice to do that around the diffs, not needed in the "normal" text
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and the text in the +/- line is monospaced, but in the unchanged lines is not
08:01<Ammler>well, I pasted the part which I could edit without issue
08:01<Ammler>basically add css styles there
08:02<@planetmaker>possibly it should send plain text e-mails? :-)
08:02<Ammler>planetmaker: how do you colorize those?
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>you don't ;)
08:02<Ammler>you would prefer raw diffs?
08:02<@planetmaker>an intelligent programme sees a diff and uses the proper syntax highlighting
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>but it could send the raw diff in the text part
08:03<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: well, you know :-D
08:03<Ammler>(patch is always welcome)
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>currently it's a html-only mail. if it were a two-part mail... :)
08:04<Eddi|zuHause>but that has nothing to do with my problem
08:04<Ammler>I think so too
08:04<Ammler>a quick fix might be to simply add background color
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>yes, around the "<%= format_diff @diff %>" add background colour, text colour, and monospace font tags
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08:08<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: but sorry, your email reader is crap
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>no, why would it?
08:08<Ammler>or do you really like to "override" the html specs of html pages
08:09<Ammler>do you do that with your internet browser too?
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>do what?
08:09<Ammler>override the html style with your custom whatever
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>if the website does not set any colours, the OS colours are used
08:09<Ammler>my mail looks like this: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/81/repository/revisions/2040/diff
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08:10<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: you change the fonts
08:10<Ammler>you don't use the font defined in the body
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08:10<Ammler><body style=3D"font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 1em; color:#4=84848;">
08:12<Ammler>looks broken
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>hm, not sure why it ignores that
08:12<Ammler>3D?
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>remnant of a colour code, i presume?
08:13<Ammler>but where does that come from, it's not in the template I posted
08:13<Ammler>you have that in your email source too?
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08:14<si-m1>3D is hex for =
08:14<si-m1>in ascii
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>so the = is some kind of escape symbol?
08:15<Ammler>so redmine does encode it wrongly or my gamil decode?
08:15<Ammler>the error is at redmine, I would think and Eddi|zuHause mail client is just a bit stricter
08:16<si-m1>probably mimedecode failure somewhere
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>it arrives like that in the raw email code
08:17<Ammler>let me check, if there are newer versions available
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't seem wrong, because inside the table stuff it looks the same way, and it applies colours etc.
08:18<Eddi|zuHause> <th style=3D"border: 1px solid #d7d7d7; font-size: 0.8em; tex=
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>t-align: right; width: 2%; padding-right: 3px; color: #999;">20</th>
08:19<Ammler>last commit 2009 :-)
08:20<Ammler>someone else using the email_diff feature of devzone?
08:20<Ammler>I might not have the most represantive mail client to compare with :-)
08:20<si-m1>right, =3D is the same as "=" in quoted printable encode
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>so the =3D is definitely not the issue
08:21<Ammler>ok
08:21<Ammler>so again back to blame your client?
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>well, not entirely. since even if it would set the text colour according to the body style, the text would again be unreadable because the body doesn't specify background colour
08:22<Ammler>yeah, I just fear, I could not fix your font issue, can I
08:23<Ammler>adding background color to body should be no big deal
08:23<Ammler>or to the diff table
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09:25<@Belugas>helo
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10:03<__ln__>what really happened: http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/250534_540256942666803_1014710167_n.jpg
10:04<@peter1138>uh huh
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10:47<Ponko>hey guys and gals :)
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10:49<@planetmaker>'lo
10:49<Ponko>does anyone know how i can download OpenTTD i know how to download it but i'm having problems with getting anything to appear my browsers (using about 3 atm) i just get a load error :/
10:50<Ponko>and hello to you planetmaker :P
10:50<@planetmaker>http://www.openttd.org/download-stable should give you a webpage to select the download you need
10:50<Ponko>thanks
10:51<Ponko>i'm surprised it's not working on the browsers i'm using
10:51<@planetmaker>(works for me)
10:51<Ponko>if it was IE then yeah i'd get it lol :P
10:52<@planetmaker>I guess last time I used... hm, IE is not the last millenium. It was after I setup windows 7. To download firefox :-P
10:52<Ponko>lol but i'm using firefox and i get the Problem loading page :/
10:53<@planetmaker>does it work for other pages?
10:53<@planetmaker>it = your browser
10:53<Ponko>tried chrome and safari
10:53<@planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects can you see for instant that page?
10:54<Ponko>and IE is just spamming me with the not responding window
10:55-!-cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
10:55<@planetmaker>can you access https://www.ovh.de/
10:55<Ponko>i mean i can see the page to download the installer & zip archive but they will not load
10:56<@planetmaker>sorry... what exactly won't load?
10:56<Ponko>eine problem Ich bin Englander :P wohnt im Schottland (yes my german is bad)
10:56<Ponko>ok one sec
10:57<@planetmaker>I'm also not asking you to read the page(s), but to tell me whether they show meaningful content...
10:57<Ponko>oh sorry lol
11:00<@planetmaker>hm... what URL do you get when you enter binaries.openttd.org into your browser, Ponko ?
11:00<@planetmaker>what URL does it resolve to?
11:00*planetmaker looks at peter1138
11:03<@planetmaker>Ponko, ^^ please check which URL you get for binaries.openttd.org. The mirror you get directed to might be down
11:04<Ponko>"The server at gb.binaries.openttd.org is taking too long to respond"
11:04*planetmaker kicks peter1138 :-P
11:04<Ponko>http://gb.binaries.openttd.org/binaries/index.html and this is the URL
11:04<@planetmaker>try master.binaries.openttd.org
11:04<Ponko>a HA progress :D
11:05<@planetmaker>thank your fellow countrymen :-P
11:05<Ponko>thought you were german :P
11:05<Ponko>lol
11:06<Ponko>or am i missing something... lol
11:06<@planetmaker>I am. But the gb mirror is down... giving you the issue. He's doing maintenance on it without disabling it in the balancer ;-)
11:07<Ponko>AHHH hence why the installer won't run right?
11:08<@planetmaker>you're directed to the closest download-URL, the gb.binaries.o.o - but that is down
11:08<Ponko>and yeah my german isn't the best need to brush but to clear any confusion i am English but can speak German a little
11:08<@planetmaker>I gave you that link to ovh.de as they host our server.
11:09<@planetmaker>not because I'm German...
11:09<Ponko>AHHHH right got ya :P
11:09<@planetmaker>my first guess was that their logo screws up something (though it shouldn't or ever did)
11:10<@peter1138>^ works now
11:10*planetmaker hugs peter1138
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11:10-!-planetmaker is "Ingo von Borstel" on #openttd @+#openttdcoop.stable @#openttdcoop.nightly #openttdcoop.devzone @+#openttdcoop.dev @+#openttdcoop +#openttd.dev +#openDune @+#coopetition
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11:11<@peter1138>that much excitement? :p
11:11<@planetmaker>meh, yeah :-(
11:12<Ponko>well for me too but can't do the hugs :(
11:12*Ponko hugs air
11:12<Ponko>ah yes i know now :P
11:12<@peter1138>why not?
11:12<Ponko>forgot how to :P
11:12*Ponko hugs peter1138
11:13<Ponko>gonna go back to chrome
11:13<@planetmaker>then this is for you, Ponko: http://www.thenicestplaceontheinter.net/ ;-)
11:14<Ponko>lol thanks
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11:15<Ponko>and chromed
11:15<@peter1138>hmm, need to fix for those annoying downloaders that make 500 million requests for the same file instead of just waiting
11:17<Ponko>well it's made my weekdays alot more bearable
11:17<@peter1138>which apparently apache does not support out of the box o_O
11:19<Ponko>did you jump on it?
11:19<Ponko>if not that's why :P
11:19<Ponko>and why's that? look up the song apache :P
11:19<SpComb>peter1138: iptables --limit-rate?
11:19<Ponko>sorry had to
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11:21<NGC3982>planetmaker: That site feels so "Comfy at first, Then attack NSFW"
11:23<@planetmaker>nsfw?
11:23<Ponko>not safe for web
11:23*MNIM clicked for the nsfw, is disappointed
11:23<Ponko>or work
11:23<@planetmaker>oh right :-)
11:28<Ponko>man i'm tired
11:29-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd
11:30<NGC3982>One grows a natural suspicion of unnaturally nice URLs, after a few years on the intarwebz.
11:35<@peter1138>heh
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11:37<Elukka>http://www.shadyurl.com/
11:38<Elukka>this can fix your too-nice urls
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11:47<@peter1138>...
11:47<@peter1138>there isn't a "download all" button, is there?
11:47<NGC3982>Yes, there is.
11:48<NGC3982>Or wait, in what context?
11:48*blathijs gives peter1138 a "Download the internet" button
11:53<@peter1138>context is openttd content window
11:54<NGC3982>Then no, there is no "download all" button. The download-button although downloads everything you have marked,.
11:54<NGC3982>-,
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>there only is a "download all" button when you look at the dependencies of a savegame
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>but not in the generic content downloader
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12:18<LordAro>evening alls
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12:37<andythenorth>crocodile! http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=411941&nseq=3
12:37-!-keoz [~keikoz@79.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd
12:39-!-cipper_sorti [~a.h.abd@197.195.94.112] has joined #openttd
12:39<FLHerne>Nice-looking thing :-)
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12:41<FLHerne>Electric locos with coupling rods have always looked rather odd to me, but very interesting :P
12:44-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd
12:48<andythenorth>which climate is this? http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=411996&nseq=5
12:48<@planetmaker>not temperate ;-)
12:49<FLHerne>Well, looks a bit deserty. No rainforests though...
12:50-!-Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
12:50<@planetmaker>unless it's tundra ;-)
12:51<FLHerne>What, in Utah?
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13:17<NGC3982>Is there any way for me to find out the complete size (in bytes) of everything housed in the Online Content at a given moment?
13:17-!-supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-66-108-49-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
13:35-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host11-216-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:35<Wolf01>hello o/
13:37<@planetmaker>NGC3982, for things on the server: no. for you locally what you have from it: yes
13:38-!-Zuu [~chatzilla@212.28.207.194] has joined #openttd
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13:40<NGC3982>I see
13:40<NGC3982>Thanks.
13:41<@planetmaker>remains also the question: what is "everything"?
13:42<@planetmaker>current versions? All available versions?
13:43<@planetmaker>(the latter won't help you as you will only get old versions, if you know their md5sum)
13:45<NGC3982>Are all available versions downloadable in the Online Content instance?
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24596 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2012-10-15 17:45:30 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>belarusian - 5 changes by KorneySan
13:45<@DorpsGek>danish - 18 changes by Knogle
13:45<@DorpsGek>french - 6 changes by glx
13:45<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 5 changes by Stabilitronas
13:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian_nynorsk - 5 changes by 2rB
13:50<Sacro>\o/
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13:54<Rubidium>Sacro: that wasn't a Bjarni
13:55<Rubidium>planetmaker: why couldn't he? He just needs to become a developer ;)
13:55<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
13:55<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 1 week, 2 days, 17 hours, 36 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
13:56<Prof_Frink>Onion Bjarni?
13:56<Sacro>Capn_Frink?
13:57<andythenorth>nobody wants to talk about cargo subtypes?
13:58*Prof_Frink has Sacro walk the plank
13:58<NGC3982>Total Town Replacement <3.
14:00<Rubidium>andythenorth: I'd like to play my ignorance card on that subject
14:01*NGC3982 would like to discuss that.
14:01<andythenorth>you don't know about them? Or you don't know if anybody wants to talk about them?
14:01<andythenorth>they're like our dirty little secret
14:02<andythenorth>it's time for an intervention
14:02<NGC3982>Intermission?
14:02<NGC3982>Masturbation?
14:02<NGC3982>Instigation.
14:02<Rubidium>andythenorth: they're a pitb
14:03<andythenorth>frosch123: would the sky fall if subtypes died?
14:04-!-Hyronymus1 [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
14:08<@planetmaker>Rubidium, well, maybe then :-) (but then... not sure I could find out in the next 30 minutes... missing knowledge)
14:09<Rubidium>missing uri, password & sql skills?
14:10*andythenorth seeks alberth
14:10<@planetmaker>all of that, I assume, yes
14:10<Rubidium>629178534
14:11<Rubidium>(compressed)
14:11<@planetmaker>that's a bit :-)
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14:12<Rubidium>60028910 downloads (que?)
14:12<@planetmaker>so social engineering is faster than data mining :-P
14:13<Rubidium>518226 downloads of binaryheap (half a million users?)
14:13*Rubidium scratches head
14:14<@planetmaker>binaryheap... what's that?
14:14<Rubidium>an AI library
14:14<@planetmaker>o_O
14:15<@planetmaker>though... it's in bananas for ages, I guess. And including all re-installs and re-downloads... maybe 250000 users?
14:15<Rubidium>23 912 445 581 786 total bananas download size
14:15<andythenorth>what was the question? o_O
14:19<Rubidium>how many bytes there were on bananas
14:20<Rubidium>seems like firs wasted 60 GiB and fish 90 GiB of bandwidth
14:20<Rubidium>1316 GiB for OpenGFX from bananas
14:21*Rubidium got the feeling the numbers are totally wrong
14:22*andythenorth is determined to avoid ever using **kwargs or such
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14:27<frosch123>andythenorth: http://img.fotocommunity.com/images/Emotionen/Melancholie/Wenn-der-Himmel-auf-den-Kopf-faellt-a25547659.jpg <- appropiate backup strategy?
14:29<frosch123>http://www.strubeli.ch/typo3temp/pics/658c8f3bc2.jpg <- oh, wait, i forgot this is the internet
14:29<frosch123>more appropiate picture
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14:39<MNIM>So. It looks like I thought up a new junction for high-speed train lines.
14:40<FLHerne>MNIM: Are you sure? :P
14:40<MNIM>as I said, looks like.
14:40<FLHerne>Most of them have already been invented ;-)
14:40<MNIM>I'll post a shot as soon as I finish signaling it
14:44<NGC3982>kitties! \o/
14:50<@planetmaker>kitties? https://picasaweb.google.com/107191069901530811927/Beobachtungen#5799609773767159746
14:50-!-supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-66-108-49-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop]
14:51<MNIM>http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/New%20Brudinghattan%20Transport%2C%2026th%20Jun%201930.png
14:53<andythenorth>frosch123: can we remove subtypes, and post a kitten picture in the newgrf spec?
14:53<MNIM>it's a high-speed mainline/branchline crossing, minimum turn length 5, size 40X22 (increases by 4x2 for 6 long turns)
14:57<Wolf01>I'll would do some modifications, I bet you can remove at least 4 tunnels
14:58<Pinkbeast>Also, why does the mainline divert such a long way?
14:58<MNIM>to keep the signal gap small.
14:59<Pinkbeast>I don't get it.
14:59<Pinkbeast>OIC, to avoid long tunnels?
15:00<MNIM>yeah
15:00<MNIM>or bridges.
15:00<FLHerne>Surely you could just have two parallel tunnels for each track, and have them almost twice as long?
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15:01<MNIM>well, two twice as long tunnels cost more money than one...
15:02<MNIM>though, granted, at that kind of expected throughputs, I suppose money is not an issue any more.
15:03<FLHerne>Er...yeah. Once you need a junction like that, the cost of a few tunnels is irrelevant :P
15:06<@peter1138>Rubidium, hard to get download stats when you don't get the logs
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15:09<MNIM>Hmmmh. You could put the inner mainlines through the middle at the cost of a couple of extra tunnels or bridges at the penalty of lessened throughput
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15:23<Rubidium>peter1138: but we have a balancer that counts
15:24<@peter1138>yeah but it doesn't count failed attempts (like when my server is rebooting) and possibly those downloaders that connect millions of times
15:24<@peter1138>(though i assume they only connect to the redirected host)
15:28<NGC3982>Im having a distribution problem.
15:28<NGC3982>(FIRS) Oil makes Petrol makes Engineering Supplies makes more oil.
15:29<NGC3982>The distances between the production of Engineering supplies and oil fields are vast.
15:30-!-Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-138-119-203.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
15:30<FLHerne>NGC3982: Make EngSup from something else then :P
15:30<NGC3982>Something tells me distributing a transfer + trucks at each oil field will be a bit too much :/
15:30<NGC3982>:(
15:30<NGC3982>Making it look good != Making it work good.
15:31<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/8zNZ2.png
15:32<V453000>can be combined though :p
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15:36<NGC3982>Though.
15:36<NGC3982>Speaking of trying to distribute enginering supplies accordingly.
15:36<NGC3982>Using timetable to deliver a full truck load every 31 day, perhaps?
15:36-!-keoz [~keikoz@79.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz]
15:38<FLHerne>NGC3982: Just use one of the million timetable-separation patches :P
15:39<V453000>refit orders work best
15:39<V453000>trains which brought raw cargo take away supplies
15:39<V453000>no extra supplying trains
15:40<Chris_Booth>Adding a single wagon on the end works weel
15:40<V453000>or even that
15:40<Chris_Booth>depends on the set
15:40<Chris_Booth>NUTS will let you refit to anying
15:40<Chris_Booth>but some may not
15:41<V453000>well someone might hate to build a refit station so he might use the single wagon method
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15:41<V453000>not always enough space either
15:41<V453000>and for TL5 that is only like 10% capacity loss
15:42<V453000>so I would consider both options almost equal
15:42<NGC3982>Neither.
15:42<NGC3982>Im going to use a truck feeder.
15:43-!-Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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15:44<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/7B8jF.png
15:44<NGC3982>That should do it.
15:44<NGC3982>The trucks have a 29 day wait at the EngSup station.
15:44<V453000>you still have to send the train there
15:45<NGC3982>I already have the trains for it
15:45<V453000>which can be a bit many stations over the whole map
15:45<NGC3982>The problem was distances
15:46<V453000>idk how can distance be a real problem; I can see the issue systematically that if you have 50 of those stations how do you distribute the trians
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15:48<FLHerne>V453000: With CDist and a train visiting them all in order :-)
15:48<NGC3982>The distances make me deliver lots of Engineering supplies, but with very great gaps in time
15:48<V453000>oh yeah or you can apply idiotic CDist which solves it for you :)
15:48<V453000>I didnt consider dumb solutions ;)
15:48<FLHerne>CDist isn't idiotic :P
15:48<NGC3982>CDist?
15:49<FLHerne>Only thing which makes pax/mail transport any fun :D
15:49<NGC3982>Bringing 850 tonnes of EngSup every 36 months isnt really as effective as delivering 1 every single month.
15:49<NGC3982>And so on.
15:49<V453000>exactly
15:49<V453000>the beauty is to invent a mechanism which will do it effectively
15:50<NGC3982>Thus, i guess this feeder system will work.
15:50<V453000>but yeah you can use cargodist to let the game direct it for you
15:55<NGC3982>That sounds automatic and useless.
15:58<V453000>my thoughts :)
15:58<V453000>+-
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15:59<andythenorth>oh screw all that engineering supply crap
15:59<andythenorth>just get latest FIRS
15:59<andythenorth>breaks your old savegames, but meh
16:01<NGC3982>Im sorry, but understanding Engineering supplies correctly. The amount is completely irrelevant to the production?
16:01<andythenorth>which FIRS version?
16:02<NGC3982>0.7.5
16:03<andythenorth>yeah, amount required is unconnected to production
16:03<andythenorth>at least 1t per month is all
16:03<NGC3982>Though
16:04<NGC3982>I realized something odd
16:04<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/RHsHJ.png
16:04<NGC3982>For some reason, the trucks doesn't wait 29 days before leaving.
16:04-!-DanMacK [~AndChat61@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:05<NGC3982>They have the orders to fill up. Does that void the timetable?
16:14<@peter1138>anyone playing a 1.2.2 mp game ?
16:15<Rubidium>playing?
16:15<@peter1138>yeah
16:15<andythenorth>stable version :o
16:16<@peter1138>yeah
16:18<Rubidium>blasphemy
16:18<@peter1138>well
16:18<@peter1138>nightly?
16:18<@peter1138>yacd? :p
16:19<Rubidium>how can you play/use your 'own' application?
16:19<Rubidium>having said that... it's kinda late for me to start a game
16:21<andythenorth>gah
16:21*andythenorth might have use kwargs
16:21<andythenorth>:(
16:24-!-DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
16:24<andythenorth>smells of cheating
16:31<__ln__>what will the United Kingdom be called after Scotland declares independence?
16:31<@planetmaker>SmallBritain
16:35<frosch>night
16:35-!-frosch [~frosch@frnk-590f67b8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:35<Prof_Frink>__ln__: "The United Kingdom of Great Britain (Except Scotland) and Northern Ireland", of course.
16:40*NGC3982 actually lives in an area named "The tiny unions".
16:40<NGC3982>:(
16:47<@peter1138>V453000, nah, don't have the nightly installed
16:48<V453000>just join the irc channel and download the package :)
16:51<andythenorth>hmm
16:52<andythenorth>how long since advanced tilelayouts introduced?
16:53<andythenorth>nvm
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17:05<Wolf01>'night
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17:21<@Terkhen>good night
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18:10<Ethereal>:o
18:10<Ethereal>is this the krusty krab?
18:15<@planetmaker>no. the rusty cap
18:16<NGC3982>So much hilight
18:16<Ethereal>:P
18:21*NGC3982 is sometimes refered to as Rusty.
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18:22<Ethereal>i see
18:22<Ethereal>well, i was just looking on the forums
18:23<Ethereal>and i cant seem to find an explanation of why there is an industry who produces beer, yet there are no cargo for it
18:26-!-XeryusTC_ is now known as XeryusTC
18:26<@planetmaker>if you mean vehicle support instead of cargo: non-default cargos always require proper vehicle sets to be included into the game, too
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18:36<Ethereal>i see
18:36<Ethereal>so i'll need to find a way to edit cargos
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19:27<oace>Hello
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20:47<a_p3rson>can someone help me with FIRS?
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 16 00:00:46 2012