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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-10-22

---Logopened Mon Oct 22 00:00:54 2012
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02:55<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:18<NGC3982>dada_: neat.
03:18<NGC3982>Terkhen: Morning.
03:19<NGC3982>Mark o/
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06:24<Markk>i don't want to be cool
06:24*planetmaker guesses all-caps day ;-)
06:25<Markk>i'm gonna do the other way around.
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06:41<@peter1138>Back in the old days we had shift-lock keys.
06:52<szaman>i've recently seen old typewriter with shift-lock mechanically joined with shift, so pressing shift-lock, presses shift and holds it :-)
06:52<NGC3982>With a mechanical lock?
06:52<Markk>I have one of those.
06:52<szaman>yes, it was mechanic typewriter
06:53<NGC3982>We've come a long way.
06:55<NGC3982>Is it for sale?
06:55<szaman>here, shift-lock is pressed and holds shift down :]
06:57<szaman>i don't think it is for sale :P
06:57<NGC3982>Oh, it's not yours?
06:58<szaman>no, i've been in some caffe on the mai nsquare in Krakow, Poland. and there was such typewriter on window sill, right next to our table
06:58<szaman>and i could play around a bit with this monster :]
06:59<szaman>but it was not 'Continental', it has polish letters on the board
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07:01<szaman>oh, i found it :]
07:03<szaman>they have damn good mulled beer with honey and clove
07:03<NGC3982>Oh, i see.
07:06<szaman>the funny thing about typewriters was deleting characters by overwriting X on the letters, but there was no way of deleting the X itself :]
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07:12<krinn>hi, guys, never played MP opentttd, how could a client-side cheat ?
07:13<@planetmaker>ideally at least
07:13<@planetmaker>but then it depends on what you call cheat and what settings you run your server with
07:13<krinn>no idea, really never tried it
07:14<krinn>just thinking how it would be doable, as in fact it is you that claim that :)
07:14<krinn> <-
07:14<NGC3982>I have never seen a client being able to use the in-game cheats in a multiplayer game.
07:14<krinn>NGC3982, not the ingame cheat, but a client side script
07:14<NGC3982>Beyond me. :)
07:15<@planetmaker>krinn, cheat as in "gain unfair advantage by having a 2nd unannounced player along your side"
07:15<krinn>planetmaker, is it really a problem ?
07:15<krinn>planetmaker, you cannot knows you're not against a group of human
07:16<krinn>or a young player help by his daddy...
07:16<@planetmaker>if I want to compete for whatever goal I want to know whether I build against one competitor or a player which has additional machine or further human support
07:16<@planetmaker>krinn, I DO see whether another player joins.
07:16<@planetmaker>I always see when I'm up against several players.
07:17<@planetmaker>So, please actually try MP before you make such statements which are wrong ;-)
07:17<krinn>you're can only be sure you are playing against ONE competitor, not how many humans/machines/brains are behind that competitor entity
07:17<@planetmaker>I see exactly who plays in which company
07:18<krinn>so it's not really a cheat, just some feeling
07:18<@planetmaker>my feeling is that you don't know which information about competitors you have and which not
07:19<@planetmaker>I always know exactly how many players there are in my competitors companies
07:19<@planetmaker>or can know, provided I care
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07:20<@planetmaker><krinn> you're can only be sure you are playing against ONE competitor, not how many humans/machines/brains are behind that competitor entity <-- that is a 100% wrong statement
07:20<krinn>how? (still no offend never played it mp, just thinking about internet pocker party would be the same)
07:21<@planetmaker>we are talking openttd, right?
07:21<@planetmaker>I'm not interested in other games
07:21<krinn>but the problem appears the same : except webcam, you cannot know who is behind someone, just guess something that might be totally wrong
07:22<krinn>but don't worry, i'm just digging the script side of the problem
07:22<@planetmaker>one client = one player. If there's 5 people in front of one keyboard, I don't care
07:22<krinn>client can run their own script different from the server?
07:23<@planetmaker>they can't be really faster than I can be alone
07:23<@planetmaker>clients cannot run scripts
07:23<krinn>ok, now i'm lost so
07:24<@planetmaker>and my argument in the thread you quote is "it's good that they cannot run scripts"
07:24<@planetmaker>as running scripts would allow exactly that: invisible scripted helpers
07:25<krinn>ah got it, your against it build-in openttd
07:25<krinn>but not as they are now
07:26<@planetmaker>I reject the suggestion in the FS-entry. I do not argue against anything existing
07:26<krinn>yep got it now, i was taking more generally
07:27<@planetmaker>I was also rejecting the generalization of the suggestion ;-)
07:28<krinn>thank planetmaker for answering
07:41<@planetmaker>mind: a *game* script is a script for the whole server. If the admin wants to cheat his company by using a specifically - crafted game script: then he can do so
07:41<@planetmaker>But admins have anyway all kind of options to cheat
07:41<@planetmaker>they own the server, thus can setup advantages to them as they see fit. And kill companies which threaten their "superiority"
07:42<@planetmaker>and a game script ALWAYS runs server-side. As do ai scripts
07:42<@planetmaker>they each are a separate client. Which interact with their specific API, sending commands to the server. The same way as every human player does via the client API
07:42<@planetmaker>so to speak
07:44<krinn>so there's no cheat from client side, only from server side, but it's a power all admins have anyway
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09:22<@Belugas>hi guys :)
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 22 09:37:14 2012
---Logopened Mon Oct 22 09:37:15 2012
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 22 09:37:16 2012
---Logopened Mon Oct 22 09:41:54 2012
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09:41-!-Irssi: #openttd: Total of 106 nicks [8 ops, 0 halfops, 2 voices, 96 normal]
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10:07<drac_boy>I know I used to ask about two verus four pistons for similar steam locomotives before but heres' one more technical question if thats ok....
10:08<drac_boy>wouldn't garrats have more steam heat loss than a mallet due to much longer pipes between the boiler and the two sets of pistons (especially the rear ones which must be several feet of pipes to reach0
10:14<@planetmaker>drac_boy, not saying that the question is wrong here. But to me it seems you more likely get a useful answer if you put that very specific question to the forums
10:17<drac_boy>hmm...guess I could think about that
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10:32<Pinkbeast>I don't know, but surely in any case the pipes are routed through the boiler.
10:38<drac_boy>yeah, the one good bonus I can see for a garrat over mallet tho could be that the firebox isn't limited by any adjacent drive axles or sitting-underneath trailing axles. can be as wide and deep as it want to be up to a clearance limit
10:38<drac_boy>I may be wrong on that one tho
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10:51<drac_boy>hi flherne I can't remember but were you working on any grfs or something else before?
10:53<FLHerne>drac_boy: Still playing with objects, now pondering a FIRS addon-thing too
10:53<FLHerne>Rather busy with other stuff at the moment though
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11:07<drac_boy>ah ok
11:07<drac_boy>I haven't really done much progress on my one major grf set...mainly from other things in the way (aside to still needing three major computer parts too meh)
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11:23<andythenorth>I think I have to stop visiting the lego forums
11:24<andythenorth>they bring out the worst troll in me
11:24<andythenorth>they're such idiots
11:24<drac_boy>which one?
11:25<andythenorth>to be more accurate, they're not all idiots
11:25<andythenorth>but idiots go there
11:25<andythenorth>in droves
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11:25<drac_boy>hm never looked at that one much (their coding is rather crappy...takes some time to load one single page)
11:26<drac_boy>if you're just looking for mocs alone try instead .. or just do random searches on ;)
11:26<andythenorth>they upgraded last week
11:26<Rubidium>drac_boy: might be because a mindstorm isn't that performant
11:26<andythenorth>brothers-brick does seem better
11:26<andythenorth>'hosted on mindstorms' :P
11:31<drac_boy>andythenorth what sort of creations do you like or nothing in particular?
11:32<andythenorth>mostly new release news
11:33<drac_boy>heh I prefer classic creations except I don't mind certain newer pieces (especially colour too..such as purple..they never thought of that years ago)
11:33<drac_boy>theres just something I don't like when a creation has tons of fancy pieces that usually only came in certain sets in certain numbers...if you know what I mean
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11:37<drac_boy>lugnet used to be good but now its more of an archive than an actual discussion center tbh ... almost noone seem to post there
11:38<andythenorth>drac_boy: some stuff is just too big...
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11:43<drac_boy>looks like chassis is a little longer than a 8868-1 truck :) .. wouldn't be surprised if the truck actually fits easily on top of your :P
11:43<drac_boy> if you need to know what it is
11:45<drac_boy>there actually was a tow truck technic set but I never liked it too much as there were a lot of custom plates on it .. not something I could had easily reused
11:50<@planetmaker>andythenorth, rather looks like a decent size to truck away both of the bowls in the background at once ;-)
11:50<drac_boy>heh heh
11:52<andythenorth>drac_boy: this will load on the rear deck
11:53<drac_boy>oh so you have that set? hrm...heh ok
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12:04<drac_boy>going for lunch anyway
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12:12<krinn>c++ <return value || value> is sane ? it looks like an error for me, how would it guess which one of the param to return ?
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12:17<__LN__>it's called operator precedence
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12:29<blathijs>krinn: __LN__: Actually, I think that will always return true or false, never either value
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12:32<@planetmaker>it will return 1 if value != 0 and 0 if value == 0. I assume
12:32<@planetmaker>so... return value != 0 is the same
12:33<blathijs>planetmaker: I suspect krinn meant "return value1 || value2", really
12:33<krinn>really that yes
12:33<krinn>value1 || value2
12:36<blathijs>krinn: Did we clear things up for you?
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12:42<krinn>nope, still looks invalid as value1 will always be return no?
12:43<krinn>return value1 || value2 value2 have no chance to get answer right ?
12:43<krinn> /sanswer/return
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>if value1 is false, value2 will be returned
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>if value1 is true, value1 will be returned
12:45<krinn>oh, didn't knew it was doable as return parameter
12:46<TinoDidriksen>You just parsed it wrong. It's return (value1 || value2).
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12:47<krinn>it's parse like i have put it so () might not be needs
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12:47<TinoDidriksen>It's parsed like I put it.
12:47<blathijs>krinn: Okay, your last sentence didn't parse for me
12:47<TinoDidriksen>You don't need () because that's how the precedence works.
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12:52<krinn>hi zuu
12:52<Zuu>Hello krinn
12:52<Zuu>I have not yet had time to test your new SCP release.
12:53<ZxBiohazardZx>7>..\src\screenshot.cpp(716): error C2065: 'slot' : undeclared identifier
12:53<ZxBiohazardZx>7>..\src\screenshot.cpp(716): error C2065: 'file_index' : undeclared identifier
12:53<ZxBiohazardZx>7>..\src\screenshot.cpp(716): error C2143: syntax error : missing ',' before ';'
12:53<ZxBiohazardZx>i think copy paste only got me so far :P
12:54<ZxBiohazardZx>used patch/diff =
12:54<krinn>I don't expect a test Zuu don't worry, and i know how time is short sometimes
12:54<Zuu>But among the GSs that I have, I guess the most interesting one would probably be NoCarGoal. Fairly easy to do both on GS and AI side and with a clear benefit for users.
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12:55<Zuu>Though currently, I try to finnish up my work to enable GSs to build and prospect industries in deity scope.
12:56<krinn>Well, because of the usage, the more GS handling it, the more AI will, but AIs depend on GS for using it
12:56<Zuu>.. but first dinner :-)
12:56<krinn>yeah, going home too :)
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12:57<andythenorth>Zuu: \o/
12:57<andythenorth>to GS industry, not dinner :P
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13:01<ZxBiohazardZx>hate my low skill knowledge :(
13:02<ZxBiohazardZx>i copied a line over but it wont compile due to non-existing parts (params)
13:02<ZxBiohazardZx>Subdirectory subdir = slot == file_index ? SCREENSHOT_DIR; (similar to the line in newgrfs) but it doesnt recognise slot and fileindex :P
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13:08<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz down to 1 line if i just add uint file_index; uint slot = file_index;
13:08<ZxBiohazardZx>7>..\src\screenshot.cpp(718): error C2143: syntax error : missing ',' before ';'
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13:10<@planetmaker>ZxBiohazardZx, I don't think it's helpful, if you paste here everytime the output of the compiler when you make a syntax error in your code...
13:11<ZxBiohazardZx>i guess so
13:11<ZxBiohazardZx>just frustration
13:11*planetmaker hugs ZxBiohazardZx
13:11<ZxBiohazardZx>if i put uint file_index; it will kill one compile error, but ofc doesnt make sense codewise, in newgrf its passes as parameter
13:11<ZxBiohazardZx>haha thx planet i needed that
13:13<ZxBiohazardZx>i think im doing it all wrong, thought it would be easier then it was :P
13:13<ZxBiohazardZx>wanted to add a screenshot dir inside /OTTD
13:13<ZxBiohazardZx>suggestion made sense :P
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13:15<TyrHeimdal>aaaaaaah! Clog in my network! ><
13:16<@planetmaker>the suggestion for a screenshot dir makes sense, yes
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13:16<ZxBiohazardZx>my code is not :)
13:16<ZxBiohazardZx>does not*
13:17<ZxBiohazardZx>i think the fileio parts are ok, just the implementation of screenshot.cpp is wrong for it gives compile errors and checking how they cheated it in on LoadNewGRF isnt helping as that isnt a saveing operation
13:17<ZxBiohazardZx>i checked saveload but there it is a parameter passed to the function (Subdirectory sb)
13:21<ZxBiohazardZx>meh whatever gotta go anyway
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13:39<Wolf01>evenink o/
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24622 /trunk/src/lang (afrikaans.txt dutch.txt) (2012-10-22 17:45:14 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 1 changes by Oomjcv
13:45<@DorpsGek>dutch - 7 changes by habell
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13:55<Wolf01>moin Sir Alberth
13:55<@planetmaker>hallo Alberth
14:00<andythenorth>quak Alberth
14:00<@Alberth>hi andy
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14:56<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r24623 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2012-10-22 18:56:21 UTC)
14:56<@DorpsGek>-Feature: Allow GameScripts to construct and prospect industries without having a sponsor
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15:13<Wolf01>\o/ too (I don't know what does mean that, but I read the tag Feature :P)
15:14<@Alberth>Wolf01: you know game scripts?
15:14<Wolf01>yeah, I tried the tutorials one
15:15<Wolf01>but I usually play with grfs only
15:15<@Alberth>this commit enables that a GS can build industries at will
15:15<@Alberth>so it can build industries for you to connect to, for example
15:15<andythenorth>it's very nice
15:15<andythenorth>now $someone needs to write a GS for it :)
15:16<@Alberth>$ with lowercase letters looks so weird :p
15:16<@Alberth>I only use $SHELL_VARIABLE like variables :)
15:17<andythenorth>I'll fix it
15:17<andythenorth>$SOMEONE needs write a GS using the nice new feature
15:18<@Alberth>Wolf01: the nocargoal and silicon valley goal scripts are fun to play even for short games
15:18<@Alberth>they give you the challenge to deliver certain cargoes in some quantity to a given destination
15:18<Wolf01>the problem is that I can't see an immediate application, but I can figure out a supermassive plan about this new feature
15:19<@Alberth>the simplest application is an empty map with 2 industries. mission: connect them
15:20<@Alberth>when you do, you get two new industries to connect, and so on
15:20<andythenorth>Alberth: write that script :)
15:20<andythenorth>MP winner is player with most industries 'awarded'
15:21<Wolf01>ah ok, that would be cool, one could transform OTTD in a puzzle game with that
15:21<Wolf01>be quick to connect 2 industries before they disappear
15:22<Wolf01>mmmh, TT, puzzle game... mega spaghetti :D
15:22<@Alberth>like subsidies :)
15:23<andythenorth>bomber man
15:23<Wolf01>it would be cool that the connection, once established, won't be "editable" (for example it switches to an hidden second player)
15:23<andythenorth>connect the industry before it explodes :P
15:23<andythenorth>Zuu: got control over disasters yet?
15:24<@Alberth>nice idea Wolf01 :)
15:24<Wolf01>and the whole track/road disappears if one of the industries close
15:24<Wolf01>so you can reuse the land
15:25<Wolf01>just like when a company bankrupts
15:25<Wolf01>but this mean one company per connection
15:26<Zuu>andythenorth: Nope. Currently work a SCP interface for NoCarGoal.
15:36<bolli>quick question. Anybody got any idea why I get an error from NMLC with this: ?
15:37<bolli>Error is: "Unrecognized identifier 'coradia3_midcar' encountered"
15:38<bolli>never mind, Me being a wally forgot to declare the spriteset...
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15:43<pverha10>Did I observe correctly that the openttd content server is not listening on IPv6, but it is on IPv4? So that people that have IPv6 aren't able to check for online content in the game?
15:44<BtbN>complained about this a while ago
15:44<BtbN>nothing changed
15:44<andythenorth>ask for your money back :)
15:44<pverha10>Is there anything I can do about it?
15:44<BtbN>disable ipv6
15:44<pverha10>hehehe :P
15:45<BtbN>no Addons while connected via IPv6
15:45<BtbN>cause the server has a v6 address, but is not listening on it
15:46<pverha10>Thank you, I will make a feature request. bye
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15:47<Rubidium>TrueBrain: is the IPv6 content issue still not fixed?
15:48<Rubidium>TrueBrain: if so, when will it be fixed? Would it make sense to remove the ipv6 address from
15:49<TrueBrain>owh, totally forgot about it
15:49<TrueBrain>it was that weird issue
15:49<TrueBrain>euh, just remove it for now
15:49<TrueBrain>and remind me next weekend plz, in case I forget again
15:49<TrueBrain>or fix it :P
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16:00<Rubidium>okay, changed the DNS
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16:22<@Terkhen>good night
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17:19<Wolf01>'night all
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 23 00:00:49 2012