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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-10-25

---Logopened Thu Oct 25 00:00:51 2012
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01:01<BadBrett>hmm... i'm trying to attach a tender to a locomotive by using articulated parts, but when i reverse the direction of the train, the tender is moved to the front... any ideas or links to a nml file that does this properly?
01:02<Supercheese>from the wiki: "CB_RESULT_REVERSED_VEHICLE to the returned vehicle ID to display the vehicle backwards. "
01:02<Supercheese>does that help?
01:02<Supercheese>hmm I just realized the grammar of that sentence fails
01:04*Supercheese is slightly confused as to what the sentence should say.
01:04<Supercheese>"Note that callback may be called from the purchase list, using vehicle variables is not possible. Or CB_RESULT_REVERSED_VEHICLE to the returned vehicle ID to display the vehicle backwards. "
01:04<Supercheese>Should it be or *add* ... to the returned ID?
01:05<BadBrett>hmm
01:07<BadBrett>i don't get it
01:09<BadBrett>that callback isn't even called when changing direction... or am I wrong?
01:09<Supercheese>I don't really know either, sorry
01:09<BadBrett>perhaps i explained the issue in a bad wat
01:09<BadBrett>*way
01:11<BadBrett>if i have a two part engine... when travelling in one direction Part1 is the engine and Part2 is the tender... but if I reverse the train, Part2 suddenly becomes the engine... it's like each part is reversed but not the order
01:12<Supercheese>Hmm
01:12<BadBrett>this isn't a problem with trams and such, because it doesn't matter which part comes first...
01:13<BadBrett>well, i'll another look at it tomorrow... eddi should know this
01:13<BadBrett>*have
01:14<BadBrett>thanks anyway
01:14<Supercheese>you're welcome
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01:53<@planetmaker>moin
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02:11<Flygon>Moin?
02:13<@planetmaker>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moin
02:13<Markk>Moin
02:15<Supercheese>"Moin" rhymes with "coin" or not?
02:15<Markk>Could do.
02:15<@planetmaker>yes
02:15<Markk>Funny thing about german btw.
02:15<@planetmaker>hm?
02:16<Markk>When I went to Berlin I wanted to know how to say "bye".
02:16<Supercheese>Which funny thing? I'm sure German has zillions, like any other language :P
02:16<@planetmaker>tschüß
02:16<Markk>And I heard some german folks saying: "tschüss".
02:16<Markk>But I thought they said "ciao".
02:16<Markk>So I said "ciao".
02:16<Markk>But no one noticed. :D
02:16<@planetmaker>that's just as fine
02:16<@planetmaker>both is common
02:17<Markk>ah
02:18<Markk>But is it pronounced in the same way?
02:18<@planetmaker>not exactly
02:18<@planetmaker>tschau vs. tschüß, if you pronounce both German
02:19<Markk>Ah.
02:19<@planetmaker>and there's also tschö - a more southern dialect form of it
02:21<szaman>ß is deprecated AFAIK
02:21<@planetmaker>maybe. I don't care
02:22<@planetmaker>it was the only acceptable spelling when I went to school
02:22<szaman>ok, not always Fuß stayed as Fuß for example :-)
02:22<szaman>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ß#Usage_before_the_spelling_reform_of_1996
02:23<@planetmaker>so if the rule is ß after long vowel then tschüß is still correct by my way of pronounciation
02:24<szaman>yes, my bad :-)
02:25<BadBrett>i learned that it's perfectly okay to write "Imbissstand" nowadays... it looks ridiculous
02:25<szaman>i'm a Pole so i could never learn german anyway :P
02:27<szaman>12 years of learning and nothing :P
02:27<Flygon>planetmaker: Sorry for the delay, I gotcha now x3
02:27<Flygon>Figured it was as such... but my language skills aren't fantastic
02:28<Flygon>Either way, g'day!
02:28<@planetmaker>still you then probably speak better German than I Polish, szaman ;-)
02:31<szaman>hehe, maybe, but i really know only some words after all these years
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02:37<Supercheese>So wait, in German *all* nouns are capitalized?
02:37<@planetmaker>hehe... "lance armstrong bug" ;-) https://plus.google.com/117091380454742934025/posts/7CK29YNwKT6
02:37<@planetmaker>yes, nouns are capitalized
02:38<Supercheese>fascinating
02:39<Supercheese>well, at least it's a highly regular rule
02:40<szaman>all numbers are written together
02:41<szaman>as one word
02:41<Supercheese>sixhundredtwentyfour, eh?
02:41<szaman>yep
02:41<szaman>well
02:41<szaman>sixhoundredfourandtwenty
02:41<@planetmaker>yes. But you only write numbers up to 12 in letters. The rest as... surprise! numbers
02:42<@planetmaker>in normal texts that is :-)
02:42<Supercheese>Well it sure beats "fourscore and seven" ;)
02:42<@planetmaker>quatre-vingt-douze
02:43<BadBrett>i'm gonna listen to some stefan raab prank calls now
02:48<szaman>there is a joke in Poland about german language: In german even birthday wishes sound like a death sentence
02:49<@planetmaker>But I rather suspect history to play the major role in that rather than the actual language...
02:50<Supercheese>Good night folks
02:50<Supercheese>valete omnes
02:50<@planetmaker>sleep well
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02:51<szaman>i think all that left between Germans and Poles after all the history is to laugh sometimes about it
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02:51<@planetmaker>:-)
02:51<szaman>of course within reason
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02:55<BadBrett>it was quite weird last time I visited Germany... it was quite common that 20-year olds went up to us and apologized for the war
02:56<__ln__>the war that sweden didn't even participate?
02:56<BadBrett>exactly
02:56<@Terkhen>good morning
02:57<__ln__>probably the 20-yeard-olds didn't participate it either, though.
02:57<__ln__>-d
02:57<@planetmaker>moin Terkhen
02:58<BadBrett>but i never understood how they could feel guilt over something that happened almost 50 years before they were born
02:58<szaman>if any German would want to appologize Pole for the war, a bottle of vodka would appear in a second :)
02:59<@planetmaker>sorry szaman, I couldn't help it.
02:59<@planetmaker>Where's the vodka now? :D
03:00<szaman>well, there is before 12 am here :P
03:00<@planetmaker>guess my time ;-)
03:01<@planetmaker>also, today is a no-alcohol day ;-)
03:01<szaman>Zagreb time?
03:01<@planetmaker>likely, too, yes ;-)
03:01<BadBrett>it is? i just put beers in the fridge
03:02<szaman>oh, you're German :]
03:02<szaman>but wait, what no-alcohol day?
03:03<@planetmaker>I just decided that when I woke up :P
03:03<szaman>my friend from warsaw visits me today, i've already bought 2 bottles of wine
03:03<szaman>and he won't come with empty hands
03:03<BadBrett>false alarm
03:03<@planetmaker>my Czech and Japanes collegues didn't come empty-handed yesterday either ;-)
03:04<szaman>oh, THAT no-alcohol day
03:04<BadBrett>it all makes sense now
03:04<szaman>drink orange juice *before* gtoing to sleep after drinking
03:05<szaman>or eat a lemon :P
03:05<@planetmaker>:-)
03:05<szaman>its better to go to the toilet twice a night than to be dried out for the next day
03:06<BadBrett>2 litres of milk always seems to do the trick
03:06<szaman>worse if you're so drunk you don't mind to piss without going to the toilet :P
03:06<__ln__>my mother's german friends were coming to visit us in finland, and my grandfather commented that by saying something like "just as i had finished driving the germans out of the country, now they're coming back!" (well that was meant to be a joke, i suppose)
03:07<@planetmaker>hehe
03:07<szaman>sinister joke
03:10<szaman>- how many gears has french tanks? - five, but there're all reverse
03:13<BadBrett>hah
03:13<szaman>(sorry for wrong grammar)
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03:35<nickshanks>hi, how do you turn off trees? I would like to see the tiles better
03:36<szaman>if you search through the menubar you'll find another bar with options to turn off trees and other things
03:36<@peter1138>X/Ctrl-X
03:37<nickshanks>i don't see a menu bar (am on windows)
03:38<szaman>nevermind, just use the X/Ctrl-X shortcut ;]
03:38<@Terkhen>I think he means the button toolbar that is at the top of the screen in all games
03:38<szaman>yep toolbar, i missed that word
03:41<nickshanks>ahh, the gear button has a Transparency Options item. I missed that, although I did see the two items at the bottom for transparent buildings and signs
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03:43<@planetmaker>yes... transparency is also still a bit inconsistent in that respect
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03:44<NGC3982>X might be the only keyboard shortcut i use in OpenTTD
03:44<NGC3982>And DEL for clearing up stuff on the screen
03:44<Flygon>What about CTRL? :p
03:44<NGC3982>Oh, yes
03:44<nickshanks>keyboard shortcuts are not shown in the menus
03:44<NGC3982>Of course
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03:44<NGC3982>Both Shift and CTRL
03:44<nickshanks>what do shift and control do?
03:44<Flygon>CTRL is... it depends on the function
03:44<@planetmaker>shift generally is cost estimate
03:45<nickshanks>pssh, why would you want that?
03:45<nickshanks>;)
03:45<@planetmaker>ctrl is... something the tooltip usually tells you (just hover mouse for a few secons)
03:45<nickshanks>ahh yes, okay i understand
03:45<Flygon>eg. when terraforming land, holding CTRL changes it from a diamond shape, to a square shape
03:45<nickshanks>oh?
03:45<@planetmaker>indeed keyboard shortcuts are not listed. But... that's also difficult. They're user-configurable in hotkeys.cfg
03:46<Flygon>As in, the tool's mass spread
03:46<NGC3982>I just noticed something new, by the way
03:46<Flygon>Not the squares themselves :p
03:46<Flygon>OpenTTD is forever isometric! :p
03:46<NGC3982>CTRL+click items in a goto-list
03:46<NGC3982>Takes you too the location! \o/
03:46<nickshanks>by the way, I work on freecol, freeciv and freeorion
03:46<@planetmaker>dimetric to be precise ;-)
03:47<@planetmaker>all nice games
03:47<Flygon>nickshanks: Work on?
03:47<nickshanks>although at the moment I am at work, and using a windows machine, my normal machine is a mac
03:48<BadBrett>whoa
03:48<nickshanks>flygon: i have commit pvdgs for freecol
03:48<nickshanks>not yet for the others
03:48<BadBrett>i love colonization
03:48<Flygon>Oh wow, nice
03:48<Flygon>I liked you before, I like you even more now
03:48<nickshanks>and i've never played TTD but am an avid fan of Railroad Tycoon 2
03:49<BadBrett>RRT > RRT2 ;)
03:49<Flygon>I only got into TTD because a friend got me to play it
03:49<nickshanks>ahh, that once happened to me with Diablo 2
03:49<Flygon>According to him, I liked trains enough :p
03:49<Markk>Same here, but with OpenTTD.
03:49<Markk>Speaking of trains.
03:49<Flygon>Well, I started on OpenTTD, anyway
03:49<Markk>I downloaded Trainz Driver to my phone today.
03:49<Flygon>But I meant the series in general
03:49<Markk>It's bloody awesome.
03:50<@planetmaker>freecol.org feels remarkably empty to me today
03:50<nickshanks>Markk: i wish trains in my country could be controlled by mobile phones, then i would be able to hold it up while i ran to the platform
03:50<Flygon>Train driving... the most monotonuous 100k/yr job there is
03:50<NGC3982>Markk: Trainz Driver?
03:51*NGC3982 have actually piloted quite a few trains now.
03:51<szaman>speaking of freecol.org, what happened to freeciv.net - it supposed to be freeciv in HTML5
03:51<Flygon>Wait, actual trains? Or virtual?
03:51<NGC3982>My girlfriend is working on Db-regio
03:51<NGC3982>Actual trains
03:51<Markk>NGC3982: Yes.
03:51<Flygon>Ah, wow
03:52<Flygon>Niiiiice!
03:52<Flygon>Here, it's really hard to get into the profession (here, being, Australia)
03:52<nickshanks>so anyways, my idea is to infiltrate the OpenTTD team and add features from RRT2 :) but don't tell anyone
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03:52<NGC3982>X61, X14, X2, and so on
03:52<NGC3982>http://www.flickr.com/photos/appemobile/7948379930/in/photostream
03:52<NGC3982>:)
03:52<Markk>NGC3982: Costs 0.99 USD/7 SEK atm, usually costs 2.99 USD.
03:52<BadBrett>...you're too late
03:52<BadBrett>that's my job
03:52<NGC3982>Markk: But, what is it?
03:52<Flygon>eg. Metro opened up for train driver jobs, and over 3000 people applied. Only 3% of applicants got past the first step of applying.
03:53<Markk>NGC3982: Have you never heard of Trainz?
03:53<Markk>:S
03:53<szaman>planetmaker: do you have any information about freeciv.net ?
03:53<nickshanks>szaman: magyar vagy?
03:53<Flygon>Is X a specific class of train? Or are the X and numbers combined to be individual classes?
03:53<@planetmaker>uhm... no, why? I mean... I played freeciv a few times, but well...
03:53<Flygon>Sorry for these silly questions, but overseas classification systems are confusing :p
03:54<NGC3982>Markk: No, i have no idea.
03:54<szaman>nickshanks: pole and hungarian, two nephews :]
03:54<@planetmaker>that page looks remarkably... plain, szaman ;-)
03:54<nickshanks>your name looks hungarian that's all
03:55<@planetmaker>but you should probably look at freeciv.org (not .net)
03:55<szaman>planetmaker: i saw many sites including wikipedia to link freeciv.net as HTML5 version of freeciv
03:55<NGC3982>Flygon: X14/X61/X2 is a complete set of pax trains
03:55<@planetmaker>you better ask freeciv devs about that then openttd devs ;-)
03:55<NGC3982>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SL_X60
03:55<szaman>nickshanks: szaman = shaman in polish
03:55<NGC3982>For instance.
03:55<@planetmaker>s/then/than/g
03:56<NGC3982>It's pretty boring driving them just in normal traffic
03:56<dihedral>good morning gents
03:56<@planetmaker>salut dihedral
03:56<NGC3982>But i see the fascination some people have.
03:56<Flygon>Ahh, so it's X being the designation of the model
03:56<dihedral>hey ho pm
03:56<NGC3982>Flygon: I guess.
03:56<Flygon>Finally, a country that uses a sensible Australia-like classification system :p
03:56<Flygon>Except for all the times where you run out of letters in the alphabet, hahaha
03:56<NGC3982>:P
03:57<@Terkhen>nickshanks: I never played RRT, which features do you miss from it?
03:57<Flygon>Even worse when you've had classes retired from service, to make room for new trains... that use the same letter
03:57<Flygon>And then the old trains end up being used again, with the same letter :p
03:57<NGC3982>Indeed
03:57<Markk>Flygon: X is the designation for electric powered multiple units in Sweden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_unit
03:58<NGC3982>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mar2003-etr302-010203codogno.jpg
03:58<NGC3982><3
03:58<NGC3982>That looks so cool.
03:58<Flygon>Oh, so X actually encompasses multiple different types of EMU's?
03:58<BadBrett>@Terkhen: openttd is lacking the economy part... in RRT, you can become successful even with a tiny railroad by doing smart investments
03:58<Markk>Flygon: yes.
03:58<Markk>Flygon: That's when the number comes in.
03:58<Flygon>Oh, okay, that's confusing
03:58<Flygon>Heh
03:58<Markk>Is it?
03:59<Flygon>Here, they're 100% seperated by letters
03:59<Flygon>And then you get individual locomotives/railcars being seperated by number
03:59<Markk>Each letter says which train type it is.
04:00<Markk>Okey
04:00<Flygon>Though, this gets quite confusing with local EMU's which, as far as I'm aware, all use M and T for motor cars, and trailers... despite there being EMU's that run across the network that are from 1920 to 2012... can't exactly say Victoria is consistant, I guess
04:00<Markk>We have letter + number and then there is a for numbers that is individual for each train/wagon.
04:00<Flygon>Ahh, right
04:01<Flygon>Okay, that makes sense :)
04:02<Markk>Yer :)
04:02<NGC3982>So, an X2 is the version 2 of X1?
04:02<Markk>hm?
04:02<Markk>No.
04:02<Markk>X2 has nothing to do with X1, exept both are EMU.
04:02<nickshanks>Terkhen: okay, here's a rundown: build while paused, allows you to lay down routes without time elapsing rather than the current unpause-click-pause rubbish; rotate map, helps give better angles when choosing routes; cost to build displayed above cursor as you drag track, instead of requiring estimates; can upgrade stations by clicking on them (if space is available) instead of having to build another one next to it
04:03<NGC3982>Markk: Since i notice an age difference that correlates to the number placed after X..
04:03<Flygon>I guess you could say that Victoria uses the exact same system for the Metro EMU's (eg. individual classes being seperated by number blocks of xyy, where x is the class, and y are the individual units)
04:03<NGC3982>But yes, true. X2(000) and X14 have quite a bit of nothing in common.
04:03<NGC3982>I guess.
04:04<BadBrett>actually...
04:04<BadBrett>X2 has kind of something to do with x1...
04:04<@Terkhen>BadBrett: that's true, IMO we should try to extend GS to allow custom ecobomic models, but of course you have to decide how to deal with NewGRF interference first
04:05<BadBrett><@Terkhen> I know very little about GS, but it sounds interesting
04:05<Flygon>Though, the problem is... is that we've had every single unit be renumbered, because a beurocrat thought it'd be a good idea to resort all of the classes into different numbers (despite the old system working perfectly fine)
04:05<Markk>NGC3982: But the numbers after X has nothing to do with anything.
04:05<Markk>NGC3982: It's just a number.
04:05<NGC3982>Markk: So, the correlation between age and the number is just a coinsidence?
04:05<Markk>Yes
04:06<NGC3982>Ah, i see.
04:06<BadBrett>the X2 configuration was actually tested in an X1 :)
04:06<Markk>yes
04:06<NGC3982>Im used to X14/X2 as old trains, and X61 as new trains.
04:06<NGC3982>And that's about it
04:06<NGC3982>:P
04:06<Markk>NGC3982: There is a train called X20 that quite a bit older than X2.
04:06<Markk>Same with X10, X10p and so on.
04:08<Markk>NGC3982: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_%C3%B6ver_svenska_loklittera
04:08<BadBrett>do you remember this one? hard to believe that it made 222 km/h
04:08<BadBrett>http://www.lokman.se/pendeltag/x1/X1_3015_Spa_030922.jpg
04:08<NGC3982>Markk: Oh!
04:08<Flygon>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways_X_class_(diesel) Every time I hear 'X(number)' being mentioned... I keep thinking you're talking about this :p
04:08<Markk>BadBrett: Yep.
04:09<NGC3982>A commuter train for 222km/h?
04:09<Markk>No.
04:09<NGC3982>That sounds a bit ..not true?
04:09<Markk>NGC3982: "Som ett första steg inför utveckling av ett framtida snabbtåg (som flera år senare skulle bli X 2000) hade man X1-enheten 3015 som provfordon. 3015 hade försetts med mycket starkare drivmotorer samt utrustning för lutning i kurvor."
04:09<NGC3982>:D
04:09<Flygon>222km/h? I am impressed
04:09<Markk>NGC3982: "Sommaren 1970 nådde X1 3015 en hastighet på 222 km/h mellan Töreboda och Skövde på Västra stambanan, vilket är hastighetsrekord för X1. Efter ha används färdigt i diverse testkörningar monterades samt bortkopplades testutrustningen och enheten kördes i normal SL-trafik fram till sin skrotning 2006."
04:09<NGC3982>Aha
04:09<@Terkhen>nickshanks: build while paused is implemented (check advanced settings), the biggest problem with rotate map is requiring 4x sprites for terrain/buildings, that way of displaying costs would be quite nice, given how stations work in OpenTTD (specially NewGRF ones) I don't know how to tackle that feature
04:09<NGC3982>Markk: Thought so
04:10<nickshanks>terkhen: you don't need any new graphics, just flip the existing sprites
04:10<NGC3982>What does our normal rail system support? I guess 210km/h (as with the SJ Snabbtåg) is the top limit..
04:10<Flygon>nickshanks: I think what he's saying is, is that it'd look quite weird with quite a few sprites
04:11<@Terkhen>BadBrett: I recommend grabbing a nightly and trying silicon valley or NoCarGoal... I don't know if there are others already
04:11<nickshanks>als long as sprites are rectangles or squares, it should work
04:11<NGC3982>Markk: "Snälltågslok"
04:11<NGC3982>Markk: :DDD
04:11<Markk>NGC3982: 200km/h and 250km/h is common today.
04:11<Markk>NGC3982: mm
04:11<@Terkhen>and I'm saying that some stuff such as industries are not symmetrical
04:11<NGC3982>Markk: Where is 250km/h common?
04:12<Markk>NGC3982: On newly built tracks.
04:12<nickshanks>1x1, 2x2 etc can be drawn without change; 2x1, 3x2 etc can be drawn horizontally flipped on +90 & +270 deg
04:12<Markk>NGC3982: Like on Botniabanan and on Grödinebanan.
04:12<Markk>NGC3982: "Schnellzug".
04:12<NGC3982>Markk: Haha
04:13<nickshanks>only T-shaped buildings and such would cause a problem
04:13<NGC3982>Markk: Oh, i see.
04:13<NGC3982>Markk: Ive traveled on quite a few RC1's (Green Cargo) and the normal X numbered trains between Little County and Scania.
04:14<Markk>Mkay
04:14<NGC3982>The advantages of having a lady in the business.
04:14<Flygon>I love how you guys can say 200-250kmph like it's casual
04:14<nickshanks>another problem with OpenTTD is that click targets are too small, for example when trying to load the topmost saved game, i often click "Parent Directory" in error
04:15<Markk>Flygon: 200-250km/h it really slow.
04:15<Flygon>Here, you say 160km/h, and you have everyone scrambling around screaming "That's impossible!"
04:15<NGC3982>And - by far the most bizarre thing ive ever encountered - was traveling with a Infranord Rail Adjuster.
04:15<Markk>Flygon: Sweden is seriously behind in development of hi-speed trains.
04:15<Markk>:/
04:15<Flygon>Australia isn't?
04:15<NGC3982>Markk: What's the top speed of SJ's X3?
04:16<Flygon>The fastest trains ever get designed to operate at here, is around 200km/h
04:16<Markk>NGC3982: SJ?
04:16<Markk>NGC3982: X3 isn't owned by SJ.
04:16<Flygon>But track condition tends to limit them from 130 to 160km/h
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04:16<Markk>Flygon: oh
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04:16<Markk>That sucks.
04:16<Flygon>Yes
04:16<NGC3982>Markk: https://www.sj.se/sj/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=18253&a=169855&l=en
04:16<Markk>Flygon: But 200km/h.
04:16<Markk>NGC3982: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/X3_%28t%C3%A5g%29
04:16<Markk>NGC3982: It's Arlanda Express.
04:16<Markk>NGC3982: SJ 3000 != X3
04:16<Markk>...
04:17<Flygon>200km/h has only ever been achieved, at least locally, in speed trials... I've actually been around tracks when that's happened (the trials, that is)
04:17<Markk>NGC3982: SJ 3000 is a trademark, just like X2000.
04:17<NGC3982>I was making some weird comparison, i guess.
04:17<Flygon>Going by how much the whole area shook, I can only assume that part of the reason this wouldn't happen, is because many segments of track aren't even built to handle 180kmph+
04:17<Markk>NGC3982: And the trains are just normal Regina trains (X53 I think), top speed of 200-250km/h.
04:18<NGC3982>Markk: X55, apparently
04:18<Markk>That's probably correct.
04:18<NGC3982>How boring.
04:18<Markk>I was really into trains for 4-5 years ago, before the "SJ 3000".
04:18<Flygon>Markk: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/VL44_New_VLine_Livery.JPG What qualifies as face blisteringly fast in Australia
04:19<Markk>:D
04:19<Markk>Diesel?
04:19<Flygon>Yes
04:19<Markk>haha
04:19<Flygon>Diesel-Hydralic
04:19<Markk>Fancy.
04:19<Flygon>Which... will bite V/Line in the ass should they ever decide to use 25kV electric
04:20<Markk>We don't have so much diesel trains.
04:20<Markk>(so many?)
04:20<Flygon>Of course not, you're all smart enough to use overhead wires
04:20<Markk>Yer
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04:21<@peter1138>D-H is sadly common here too :-(
04:21<@Terkhen>nickshanks: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7204
04:21<NGC3982>Markk: We don't?
04:21<Flygon>Funny story with the VLocity trains, actually... they do have secondary electric motors, added late in design, because the default Diesel-Hydralic arrangement didn't give enough horsepower to go through certain hills @ 180km/h (normal operating speed is 160km/h, but you're perimitted 10% overspeed)
04:21<@Terkhen>WRT clicking, I use a bigger font
04:21<Markk>NGC3982: nope, not really.
04:21<Flygon>So technically, they're a Diesel-Hydralic, Diesel-Electric, and Battery-Electric (batteries are there for if the fuel runs out... and to start the engines :p) DMU
04:22<NGC3982>Markk: For some reason, we still use diesel Y1/Y32 trains in Little County.
04:22<NGC3982>Krösatågen, for instance.
04:22<Flygon>As it turns out, it's insanely expensive to maintain such an arrangement... V/Line didn't actually expect them to become popular enough to necessitate replacing nearly the entire V/Line fleet with them
04:22<@peter1138>best bit about 3rd rail is the lovely flashes
04:22<NGC3982>As far as i know, DSB don't have the money to replace them. :(
04:23<Markk>NGC3982: Yes, that's one of the few.
04:23<nickshanks>Flygon: this is the only pic I can find of a eurostar and a javelin together: http://citytransport.info/NotMine/395002_and_a_eurostar_Ashford_Internationala.jpg
04:24<Flygon>NGC3982: How old are they? We're using vintage Diesel locomotives for mainline freight in Australia, still
04:24<NGC3982>Markk: That might a local observation, though.
04:24<NGC3982>Flygon: The Y32's arent that old, afaik.
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04:24<Flygon>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways_T_class_(diesel) Still in service, since the mid-50s
04:24<NGC3982>They are for some reason the most healthy looking trains i have ever seen
04:25<@peter1138>hmm, eurostars are 20 years old now o_O
04:25<NGC3982>http://i53.tinypic.com/2zxtv7t.jpg
04:25<Flygon>NGC3982: Well... if you do ever decide to get rid of them, Australia'll somehow make their lifespan be 80 years :p
04:25<Flygon>nickshanks: The Eurostar is the one on the top?
04:26<Markk>This is the best website about Swedish trains: http://www.jarnvag.net/
04:26<Markk>Unfortunaly it's in Swedish.
04:26<@peter1138>my local railway operator (DB) runs a couple of BR class 121s
04:26<Flygon>Railfans here tend to make jokes about the Javelin trains, because they're manufactured by Hitachi... some of the oldest EMU's still used by Metro Melbourne are the Hitachi fleet (almost 40 years in service)
04:26<Markk>http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jarnvag.net%2F&act=url
04:27<Markk>So click on that link instead.
04:27<Flygon>The Hitachi are so nitorious, there's even sightings threads for them
04:27<@peter1138>which is a single-car diesel unit from the 1960s
04:27<Flygon>So basically, anyone going to Britian will say they saw a Javelin train as a Hitachi :p
04:27<Markk>"Lokguide" means "Engine guide", so that's the one you want to click.
04:28<Flygon>peter1138: I'm really impressed with British railcars... they seem to have this ability to absolutely refuse to die
04:28<@peter1138>i've been on it, it's horrible
04:28<@peter1138>so very very slow
04:28<Flygon>I've never ridden one
04:29<Flygon>There isn't that many preserved Victorian railcars here, sadly
04:29<Flygon>Lots were one-offs, and lots were scrapped, because they kept failing
04:29<Flygon>Didn't help that we tended to have very primative railway engineering compared to the rest of the world
04:31<nickshanks>Flygon: yes
04:32*Flygon nod
04:32<nickshanks>Flygon: it's not that british rail cars refuse to die, it's just that new ones are built to 1960's specs, and weathered before being introduced
04:32<Flygon>The Javelin looks clearly much less worn out
04:32<@peter1138>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UT4x4YjagU
04:33<nickshanks>(that was an attempt at humour by the way)
04:33<Flygon>I took it as serious
04:34<Flygon>Australia is very behind the times still, hahaha
04:35<Flygon>It's hard to believe we want to build a 400kmph HSR between Melbourne and Sydney
04:36<@peter1138>wanting and doing are two separate things
04:36<Flygon>Depends how you define doing
04:36<Flygon>We've had at least 6 case studies since 1981
04:37<@planetmaker>haha. And we have a several maglev tracks in Germany. Going by "want" in the past
04:37<Flygon>The only thing that can be seen as having gotten out of any of them, are the 160kmph trains scattered around the country
04:38<Flygon>eg. around 1981, NSWGR decided to order a 'fast train' fleet, the result that came out is the XPT
04:38<Flygon>Which is basically a BR Intercity 125 regeared for 160kmph operation =/
04:45<Flygon>planetmaker: Frankly... Maglev would be perfect for the Melbourne-Sydney HSR
04:46<Flygon>No need to tunnel, because you can just climb up and down grades without giving a damn... the Melb-Syd HSR would be going through what's basically Australia's only mountain range
04:46<@peter1138>what?
04:46<Flygon>But, the powers that be are insistant on 400km/h Iron Rail is the solution
04:47<Flygon>peter1138: Maglev can climb on sharp grades much more easily than conventional rail
04:47<Markk>Hm, why don't we put some wings on the trains, and sort of, transport them in the air to the destination?
04:48<Flygon>Taking advantage of this could theoretically push down the cost of construction to below that of Iron Rail for the same speed, because of not having to build so many bridges and tunnels through a mountain range
04:48<Flygon>Markk: We've done that already
04:48<Flygon>And now we have one of the world's busiest air routes
04:48<Markk>:D
04:48<Flygon>And Sydney refuses to build a second airport... alongside that, there is heavy curfews on the Sydney airport
04:51<nickshanks>my old train to work: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/S_Bahn_Muenchen.JPG got me to work on time more often than my current train: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/317342_AND_317340_Peterborough.JPG :(
04:51<Flygon>Now you can see why the Melb-Syd HSR campaign is gaining traction
04:52<NGC3982>My eyes.
04:52<NGC3982>The colors :(
04:52<Flygon>What's wrong with the colours?
04:54<Flygon>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/VicRail_Trains_for_the_80s_poster.jpg Can't possibly be any worse than this!
04:54<@peter1138>Mem: 8198516k total, 7538784k used,
04:54<@peter1138>^ modern software :-(
04:55<Flygon>Lucky bugger
04:55<@peter1138>Swap: 1951888k total, 1934932k used, < as well, lol
04:55<Flygon>I only have 4GB of RAM D:
04:55<nickshanks>flygon: that train needs more spikes on the front. i don't think it's deadly enough to pedestrians
04:55<@peter1138>closed *one* app and mem used dropped to 4.3GB
04:56<Markk>Mem: 7955 5312 2643 0 159 2077
04:56<nickshanks>was that app openttd? :)
04:56<Markk>Using 5312 MB.
04:56<Flygon>nickshanks: Nah, the one that kept killing pedestrians was the Victorian Railways L-class :p
04:57<nickshanks>oh crap, i just realised: "Victorian Railways" probably doesn't mean trains from 1850, but trains from the state of victoria
04:57<Flygon>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/L1162.jpg We used to have a long distance electric line... early in it's years, people would constantly get smashed into by L-classes because they thought they'd be as noisy as VR's Diesel fleet
04:58<Flygon>As it turns out, the L-class is one of the quietest locomotives ever built in Australia
04:58<@peter1138>no, openttd uses hardly anything
04:58<@peter1138>it was monodevelop
04:58<Flygon>Anyway, I gotta go
04:58<Flygon>Need to drop someone off
04:58<nickshanks>I can only forgive people who are hit by supersonic trains
04:58<@peter1138>cliff?
04:59<nickshanks>for everyone else, it's their own stupidity
05:00<nickshanks>this looks interesting, but most of these projects seem dead now: http://freetrain.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14
05:01<Flygon>Annnnd she's taking her time
05:02<Flygon>nickshanks: Level crossing accidents are practically an epidemic here
05:02<Flygon>And probably the only reason the VLocity fleet aren't run @ 200kmph+
05:04<Flygon>Strangely, most accidents happen with the locomotive fleet... which are renowned for being flying bricks
05:04<Flygon>Okay, gotta go
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05:31<Soft>why do my aircrafts keep crashing all the time ._.
05:31<Flygon>Are you using Large Aircraft in Small Airports?
05:31-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
05:31<Soft>Yes
05:31<Soft>Is that a bad thing
05:33<Flygon>The crash chance every time an aircraft lands is 5%, if it's a Large Aircraft in a Small Airport
05:36<Flygon>Otherwise, it's 0.1%
05:37<Flygon>I'm not sure how often Helicoptors crash, though... never had one crash
05:37<Soft>oh okay, now I just need to figure out how to fit a large airport into tightly populated area
05:38<Flygon>Could use Feeder Routes
05:38<Flygon>Or bulldoze a lot... or place it on the outer rim of the city
05:38<__ln__>build it underground... hmm, no
05:39<Flygon>Well
05:39<Flygon>Actually
05:39<Flygon>An underground Blimp/Heliport could be pretty cool
05:39<Soft>Hmm I think I will go with bulldozing, the city pretty much covers all of the land in a small island so
05:40<Soft>Or maybe I could expand the island a little
05:41<Flygon>Expand the island
05:41<Flygon>Try to expand the pie, not eat more of the existing pie :p
05:50<@peter1138>http://www.entechworld.com/images/services/runway-1.png < trying to reach the underground runway
05:56<Flygon>Heh
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06:04<Markk>sla.ro is offline, yes.
06:04<Markk>peter1138: :D
06:13<szaman>planetmaker: it's after 12, so, my proposition: http://webtrunki.pl/pics/trunki_photo/2/trunek_2070_org.jpg :]
06:13<@planetmaker>:D
06:17<szaman>i love these "pure-fect" bottle designs of wyborowa
06:22<szaman>not to mention how it looks when is iced hard in a post-soviet icebox without thermostat :P
06:31<nickshanks>Question: When I do a ?-click on some buildings, they say things like Cargo accepted: Passengers, 2/8 Mail, 2/8 Cargo. What exactly does this mean?
06:32<Eddi|zuHause>nickshanks: when you place a station near buildings, the 2/8 etc. of all buildings are summed up, and if you get to 8/8, the station accepts mail
06:33<Eddi|zuHause>so you'd need at least 4 of these buildings to accept mail or goods, but one will suffice for passengers
06:33<nickshanks>if I have, say, three buildings accepting Passengers, does that mean I get 3x the revenue for delivering passengers to that town?
06:33<Eddi|zuHause>no
06:33<Eddi|zuHause>everything above 8/8 is irrelevant
06:33<nickshanks>okay, thanks!
06:34<Eddi|zuHause>(you do, however, get more passengers the more buildings you have within reach)
06:35<nickshanks>is there a way to see how many passengers/mail/cargo is generated per unit of time, and how quickly they dissipate if not transported?
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>when you click on the town, you see an account of the total number of passengers produced
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>and they only dissipate if your station rating drops below 50%
06:36<nickshanks>station rating?
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>if you click on the station, you get a rating
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>which depends mainly on how much is waiting, and how long ago the last vehicle picked something up
06:37<nickshanks>ok
06:39<nickshanks>the city panel says passengers/mail last month: X, max: Y is that referring to generated, transported, something else?
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>you get Y if you cover all houses, and have 100% rating (which is almost impossible)
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>if you have 60% rating and cover half the houses, X is 0.6*0.5*Y
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>(roughly)
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>X is how much actually appeared at your stations
06:41<nickshanks>use busses to cover the other half, right?
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes
06:41<Eddi|zuHause>but there are many possiblilties :)
06:42<nickshanks>airports on either side of a town
06:42<nickshanks>pop. 224
06:42<Eddi|zuHause>that is not a lot :)
06:43<nickshanks>but if they are multi-milionaires with private jets each, maybe they need two airports
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06:56<Flygon>Two Intercontinental Airports
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07:30<lugo>http://i.imgur.com/bbg8Y.jpg ... time for an unrealistic aircraft set, V453000? :P
07:30<V453000>hell no :)
07:30<V453000>aircraft is dumb
07:31<V453000>also if it is unrealistic then it has nothing to do with already taken photos ;)
07:31<Flygon>lugo: That's an FBA drone with two giant bombs
07:31<Flygon>FBI ffff
07:39<NGC3982>V453000: Aircraft's not dub >:(.
07:39<NGC3982>Oh, oops.
07:39<NGC3982>It might be dub, though
07:39<NGC3982>But not dumb.
07:40<V453000>well if you declare building 2 airports, buying vehicles, and sending them there not dumb, then I am not sure what is dumb
07:41<V453000>especially compared to train networks, obviously
08:03<Soft>So I built a heliport but I don't seem to be able to purchase helicopters anywhere
08:06<lugo>Soft: you need a hangar in order to do that..
08:07<Flygon>lugo: Depends... what if he's too late in the game? And isn't using NewGRF's?
08:08<lugo>that's step 2 :P
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08:11<Soft>Im in the 2080's
08:12<Flygon>Yeah
08:12<Flygon>I think you've gone too far...
08:12<Markk>I love to play it until the year ~2200 to 2400.
08:13<Markk>The cities grows extremely much in that time.
08:13<Soft>There are no helicopters in the future o_O
08:13<Flygon>Well
08:13<Flygon>I'd say use the... whatsitcalled
08:14<Flygon>AV8 or something NewGRF, the one with the Blimps and Zepplins
08:14<nickshanks>i have a concept called a Rabbit Hole
08:14<Flygon>They have some really nice late-game coptors
08:14<nickshanks>an evacuated underground tunnel 1000 kms long
08:15<Flygon>Is this in OpenTTD, or real life?
08:15<nickshanks>with electromagnetically driven public vehicles
08:15<nickshanks>in my head
08:15<Flygon>Ah, right
08:15<Flygon>So, basically
08:15<Flygon>Maglev vactubes
08:15<nickshanks>yep, underground, going between capital cities
08:16<nickshanks>no driver, passengers just press a button, get in the next one to arrive, and give a destination
08:16<Flygon>You know what'd be very useful?
08:16<nickshanks>lots of money?
08:16<Flygon>A Sydney-LA 8000kmph Vactube
08:16<Flygon>It'd 100% revolutionize trans-Pacific shipping
08:17<nickshanks>it'd only be useful to porn actors who wanted to live in Sydney
08:17<Flygon>Though, more likely, it'd become a radial vactube from Hawaii
08:17<Flygon>eg. Hawaii'd branch out to LA, Syd, and Tokyo
08:17<Flygon>Or Beijing... perhaps both
08:18<nickshanks>we should persuade china to build one
08:18<Flygon>Nah
08:18<Flygon>China has a spotty train safety record
08:18<Flygon>I'd only trust an Australian, American, Japanese, or European builder
08:19<nickshanks>since they get off on splurging money on massive public works projects
08:19<Flygon>...seriously, not even the French TGV is legally allowed to go over 115km/h in most Australian railways
08:19<Flygon>Because it wouldn't meet crash safety standards :B
08:20<nickshanks>britain is still suffering from a chronic lack of in-cab signalling
08:20<Flygon>nickshanks: Come to Australia
08:20<nickshanks>ok, okay then
08:20<szaman>poland started to install in-cab signaling in recent year AFAIK
08:20<Flygon>We've succeeded in having British tube employees being terrified when they've ridden in (then Connex) Metro train cabs
08:20<nickshanks>i'll just go to australia, cos some guy on the internet told me to
08:21<Flygon>Simply because one of the things holding the rails in place, were wooden planks
08:21<Flygon>This is in the underground subway system of Melbourne
08:21<nickshanks>those are called Sleepers
08:21<Flygon>No
08:21<Flygon>It wasn't the sleeper
08:21<nickshanks>hehe
08:21<Flygon>They were sleeperless tracks
08:21<nickshanks>those are called ruts in the road
08:22<Flygon>Problem is
08:22<nickshanks>;)
08:22<Flygon>The tracks came loose
08:22<Flygon>The maintainence solution?
08:22<Flygon>Use some wooden two-by-fours and wedge it between the wall and the rail
08:22<Flygon>I'll need to find some photos
08:22<nickshanks>great until it rains, and the wood expands
08:23<nickshanks>this is what happens in britain: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TbyiCtmeFSs/TNvyC2LlcrI/AAAAAAAAAio/nYK9ZV-C68U/s1600/PotterBarAccident.jpg
08:23<Flygon>This was underground
08:23<Flygon>...
08:23<Flygon>How the heck?
08:23<Flygon>Nearly said a very bad word, just then
08:24<Flygon>http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/city-loop-safety-slammed-20121025-286v5.html Well... it isn't wooden planks
08:24<Flygon>But this should give you enough details :p
08:25<nickshanks>"The train passed over a faulty set of points which failed, causing the rear set of wheels to travel onto a parallel line. The train then flipped over and came to rest wedged between the platform and the building structures. Seven people lost their lives and another 76 were injured. The accident was caused by a collection of maintenance errors."
08:25<Flygon>...
08:25<Flygon>Absolutely unbelievable
08:26<Flygon>The worst we usually get around here is this: http://www.vicsig.net/suburban/spencerst/20030203-sss-394m-n463-small.jpg
08:26<Flygon>The end result was that the Comeng got rebuilt, and the N-class locomotive got a tyre change and a new windshield... they both otherwise survived okay, and nobody got killed :B
08:27<nickshanks>one of the people killed in that crash i showed was an old woman walking below the (elevated) platform, who got hit by falling debris
08:27<Flygon>Oooouch...
08:28<Flygon>http://www.vicsig.net/index.php?page=suburban§ion=sss
08:28<nickshanks>that crash was 5 miles from where I live, but two years before there was another one in my own town, where four died (i think)
08:28<Flygon>This is unbelievable
08:29<Flygon>I thought Britian had much better safety standards than that...
08:29<nickshanks>https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hatfield+crash
08:29<Flygon>Almost all rail accidents here are suicides and rail crossing crashes
08:29<nickshanks>we don't count suicides
08:30<Flygon>Ah
08:30<Flygon>We do
08:30<Flygon>They impact on the driver, very very badly
08:30<Flygon>http://images.theage.com.au/2009/09/13/728761/1409train-420x0.jpg ...would you believe that nobody got injured from this, not even the crew?
08:31<Flygon>The injuries sustained happened because of the driver exiting the cab
08:31<Flygon>Still
08:31<Flygon>I am utterly astounded Britian can have such horrid accidents
08:31<nickshanks>yes, sure, but generally suicides don't kill anyone but the idiot
08:32<Flygon>Given how strong your rail culture is
08:32<nickshanks>i created this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rail_accidents_in_the_United_Kingdom
08:33<Flygon>I presume you're not the only contributor?
08:34<Flygon>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerang_train_accident Worst accident that I can think of happening locally, in recent time (keep in mind, the state I live in, is bigger than Britian, and a tad bigger than Poland)
08:34<nickshanks>no, it's much expanded since i created it
08:35<Flygon>Ahh
08:35<Flygon>Gotcha
08:39<Flygon>I've always been terrible at contributing to Wiki articles
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08:44<Flygon>"In 1884 at Little River, two enginemen and one passenger were killed and 486 persons injured when two trains crashed into ono another head on. The accident came about through a station-master leaving his little girl in charge, and she gave a staff to a train, and enabled it to proceed, whereas she should have held it until the train coming in the opposite direction had arrived."
08:44<Flygon>...holy hell
08:44<Flygon>Times have changed, indeed
08:50<Pinkbeast>These days we have motorists to take care of that sort of thing. :-(
08:54<nickshanks>is there any record of what happened to that little girl as she grew up
08:56<Flygon>nickshanks: It's pre-federation Australia
08:56<Flygon>So...
08:56<Flygon>Who knows?
08:56<Flygon>Victoria was full of Irishmen back then
09:07<NGC3982>Ah, the irish
09:07<NGC3982>Making a fuzz about not being british for a few hundred years.
09:09<szaman>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szczekociny_train_collision - this year in poland
09:10<szaman>head-on at nearly 100km/h
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09:13<Flygon>szaman: I heard
09:13<Flygon>It was all over the news here
09:15<szaman>the main reason why such tragedies are happning in poland is because autions for construction works are resolved only by price
09:15<szaman>auctions
09:15<Flygon>Ahh...
09:15<Flygon>Here, if works are done
09:15<Flygon>We shut down the line
09:15<Flygon>Because of exactly this
09:16<dada__>damn
09:16<dada__>that's awful
09:16<Flygon>It is
09:17<dada__>aren't you the same Flygon from tasvideos?
09:17<Flygon>Ever notice how Bisqwit was always trying to get me into OpenTTD
09:17<szaman>well, this works could be done safely if "better" contractor have been chosen
09:17<Flygon>And it turned out that someone that wasn't him got me into it? :p
09:17<dada__>I didn't know he was trying to get anyone into openttd
09:17<dada__>but then I haven't seen him around lately, except on youtube in his esoteric programming videos
09:18<Flygon>Best we not discuss that
09:19<dada__>well, anyway, I'm sickly addicted to openttd these days
09:19<dada__>not really too active on tasvideos anymore
09:19<Flygon>It seems we've both moved on
09:19<Flygon>I'm going between addicted, and distracted by other things/work :p
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09:20<andythenorth>bonsoir
09:20<dada__>well, main reason for why I'm not that active anymore is because I got pretty sick earlier this year and I'm still recovering and so I'm trying to take it easy with regard to doing things, like making encodes
09:20<V453000>hi andy :)
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09:21<Flygon>I wish for us to stop discussing TASVideos
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09:23<dada__>I'm not
09:24<@planetmaker>bon jour, andythenorth
09:24<Flygon>Alright
09:24<Flygon>Thank you
09:25<@Belugas>hello
09:27<Flygon>Yo
09:28<andythenorth>ariverdici
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09:29<TyrHeimdal>openttd needs to come back to the ipad :/
09:30<TyrHeimdal>would be epic
09:32<Ammler>it would not long hold there, someone would come by and request drop because they think, it is a illegal ttd copy :-)
09:33<Ammler>but unofficial ports are avaialbe, aren't?
09:33<TyrHeimdal>I read somewhere that there was some communication between the developer of the ipad version and the original studio
09:33<TyrHeimdal>there was
09:33<TyrHeimdal>I bought it as well
09:34<TyrHeimdal>but it was pulled
09:34<dada__>how much time/effort do you guys spend on ships? it seems like half my time is spent on them. for some reason I love making canals everywhere.
09:34<TyrHeimdal>^^
09:35<Ammler>[15:33] <TyrHeimdal> I bought it as well <-- you had to pay?
09:35<Flygon>I rarely use ships
09:35<Flygon>Except for fringe cases
09:35<Flygon>Such as oil
09:35<TyrHeimdal>Ammler: hmmm, good question actually... don@t remember
09:35<Flygon>And 19th centery mass cargo transprt
09:35<Flygon>But even then, they've been so slow
09:35<TyrHeimdal>I´d have to check
09:35<Flygon>It's been more profitable for me to create artificial islands
09:36<Flygon>And build bridges across the ocean
09:36<TyrHeimdal>but then open part should suggest it should have been free :P
09:36<dada__>http://wedemandhtml.com/tmp/Colonialist%20Oppressors%20Ltd.,%2028-11-2195.png
09:37<+michi_cc>TyrHeimdal: You'll wait a long time unless Apple rescinds its ban on GPL software in the app store.
09:37<TyrHeimdal>michi_cc: they have a policy agianst GPL there? for real?
09:37<TyrHeimdal>if that´s the case, that´s bad
09:38<Flygon>Wow
09:38<+michi_cc>The app store terms of service are incompatible with GPL (they take some rights you have under GPL) and Apple choose to resolve that by removing all GPL software and not by changing its ToS.
09:39<TyrHeimdal>heh, that´s apple for ya ^^
09:39<Flygon>dada__: I've never been good at building pretty networks
09:40<dada__>well, for ships, timetables are everything
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09:40<dada__>if you play with breakdowns off like me it's not difficult, all you gotta do is set up a constant waiting time for the station for ships
09:41<Flygon>Hmm
09:41<Flygon>Timetables always throw me off... seems hard to manage without a routes feature, too
09:42<Flygon>eg. You create a timetable for a route, and assign vehicles to it... but, ehhh
09:42<TyrHeimdal>i never got why one would use timetables actually
09:42<dada__>my largest city is starting to become pretty large
09:42<Flygon>I can see how that'd become confusing... I just confused myself
09:42<Flygon>TyrHeimdal: There can be good reasons
09:42<dada__>well, timetables are used to prevent the "bunching up" effect
09:43<dada__>ships show the effect the most noticeably, they all bunch up into one supership instead of nicely spreading out, which is what you want to aim for
09:43<TyrHeimdal>but won¨t that be hugly complex when the number of trains go up?
09:43<TyrHeimdal>ah
09:43<TyrHeimdal>so more for ships then anything else..?
09:43<dada__>I don't have much timetable experience with trains, but it can be of use there too
09:44<dada__>only have been using them for a little while
09:44<Flygon>Ah, yeah
09:44<Flygon>Only thing I've really timetabled is trains
09:44<dada__>it's basically just a way to keep them all in sync, to make sure that trains/vehicles reach the station at a frequent interval, instead of in random intervals
09:44<Flygon>But I find them confusing, without seeing it in 24 hour time...
09:45<dada__>random intervals lower the efficiency/station rating
09:45<TyrHeimdal>even for non-passanger transports?
09:45<__ln__>*passenger
09:46<TyrHeimdal>would think an industry would be happy if it got it´s stuff out as fast as possible
09:46<__ln__>*its
09:47<TyrHeimdal>ln, both are true
09:47<dada__>basically, the longer the industry's cargo lies waiting at the station, the worse
09:47<dada__>frequent intervals means they don't wait for so long
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09:58<dada__>http://wedemandhtml.com/tmp/Colonialist%20Oppressors%20Ltd.,%2010-11-2197.png
09:58<dada__>I should get around to signalling and activating my train line over there
09:59<Flygon>I could never build such pretty networks...
09:59<Flygon>All I end up doing is plopping down trams, and a train, and off I go
09:59<Flygon>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/chicagostation.png And then turn it up to 11
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10:00<dada__>well, I care more about how things look than about efficiency or anything else :P
10:00<dada__>hehe that's neat tho
10:00<dada__>looks very high capacity
10:01<Flygon>Absurdly so
10:01<Flygon>I have enough Tram routes to need more alphabet letters @.@
10:02<Flygon>Thing is, though
10:02<Flygon>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/brusseltransit.png All I seem to build is massive stations @.@
10:02<Flygon>Nothing particulary... pretty
10:02<Flygon>I felt kinda guilty at increasing the max station size for that one
10:06<dada__>looks quite good, I need to do more high capacity stuff
10:06<dada__>I should get into openttdcoop
10:07*planetmaker usually can't increase max station size for things like that.
10:07<Flygon>Ehh
10:07<Flygon>I'd be pretty bad with coop
10:07<Flygon>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/Victorian%20Railways%2C%2027th%20Jul%201953.png Also, I've had my share of disasters
10:11<Pinkbeast>I confess the ottdcoop chaps seem utterly mad to me
10:13<Flygon>Agreed
10:13<Flygon>Annd I'm pretty nuts
10:17<@planetmaker>Might be related to my default max_station_spread being 64, though ;-)
10:18<Flygon>Hahaha
10:18<Flygon>Mine's usually 32...
10:18<Flygon>But it's been pushed up, for some games >_>
10:21<Ammler>sation_spread 64 is way too small, it should be map size ;-)
10:23<@peter1138>cheat!
10:26<V453000>utterly mad? :(
10:26<dada__>ah, looks like I can quit playing openttd for now, finally got some work to do
10:30<Soft>What should I do with old vechiles? Should I command them to a depot, clone them and sell the old ones one by one or is there an easier way.
10:31<@peter1138>depends what you want to do with them...
10:32<@peter1138>though it sounds like you want autorenew
10:32<Soft>I dont really know, the game just keeps informing me that they are very old
10:33<@peter1138>http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Vehicles#Autorenew
10:33<@peter1138>hmm, that page talks about openttd.cfg but not the settings window o_O
10:34<Soft>Oh thats just what I was looking for, thanks
10:42-!-krinn [~krinn@224.68.206.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd
10:46<krinn>hi, i see something odd: AISign.IsValidSign(id) return true for a sign own by NONE/DEITY while the function use return si != NULL && si->owner == _current_company;
10:47<Pinkbeast>V453000: That's not necessarily a bad thing - for example I am a great admirer of Joff Summerfield, who rode around the world on a penny-farthing recently, the second person to do so ever (and the first one didn't build his own bike first). But that was utterly mad. :-)
10:47<V453000>:P
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10:48<krinn>and of course current_company just cannot be NONE/DEITY in an AI
10:49<@planetmaker>krinn, anybody can edit the sign of another company (or unaffiliated signs)
10:50<krinn>well, the AI version state it only return valid for your own company, and the si->owner == _current_company might be there for that
10:50<krinn>but the odd thing, is that it still return true, so something is weird with the si->owner check
10:50<V453000>Pinkbeast: you could always join openttdcoop :P
10:51<krinn>planetmaker, and of course the sign really exist, but not own by the ai company, so it should remain hidden and return false no?
10:52<@planetmaker>dunno... what should it do? Not sure
10:52<@planetmaker>Both makes sense. Under certain disjunct use cases
10:53<krinn>well, the sign exist, but own by deity/none
10:53<krinn>but the Ai version of IsValidSign return true
10:54<@planetmaker>which is not isValidOwnSign ;-)
10:55<krinn>{
10:55<krinn> const Sign *si = ::Sign::GetIfValid(sign_id);
10:55<krinn> return si != NULL && si->owner == _current_company;
10:55<krinn>}
10:55<krinn>that's the AISign.IsValidSign function
10:57<Pinkbeast>V453: Or I could set off towards Constantinople on an ordinary. But either seems unlikely, I fear.
11:03<V453000>how come
11:05<Pinkbeast>Well, in the one case, jolly dangerous and while I like cycling, you can have too much of a good thing. In the other... it's not really how I play OTTD. For example, I shudder gently at any kind of logic construction.
11:07*NGC3982 is getting ready for the masquerade.
11:07<NGC3982>http://www.flickr.com/photos/appemobile/8122218720/in/photostream
11:11<V453000>I dont think logic constructions are in any way shape or form a key aspect :)
11:14<Pinkbeast>I'm counting any piece of track laid for a purpose other than trains travelling along it
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11:21<Kitty>26
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11:31<@peter1138>i love adhoc coop play
11:32<@peter1138>i also like to use some ships & aircraft, so openttdcoop is out for me :p
11:41<Pinkbeast>... although I would like some more signalling features so one doesn't have to lay that logic track, yes, I know, do your own, etc.
11:42<@peter1138>programmable signals... probably a patch for that somewhere
11:43<Pinkbeast>There is a progsig patch but there's obviously a lot more could be done with signals
11:48<@Terkhen>IMO the order mess should get fixed before we get into programmable signals :P
11:49<@peter1138>what mess?
11:56<NGC3982>Im sorry, but i think i need to turn to this channel for something strange.
11:56<NGC3982>Im looking for a western/cowboy based intro scene to an anime series. The anime series is based on a NES/SNES game.
11:56<NGC3982>Does it ring any bells?
12:00<@Terkhen>the order GUI mostly; I don't use comple orders much but it seems to be complicated
12:00<NGC3982>Oh, i found it. Never mind the OT.
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12:01<@Terkhen>the most complex thing I do is transfer and leave empty
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12:16<Soft>Coconut run 2 from openmsx really remainds me of crash bandicoot games O_o
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12:28<@Alberth>oi
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12:32<@Terkhen>hi Alberth
12:38<@Alberth>hi
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12:48<frosch123>hai albert, hola terkhen :)
12:50<@Terkhen>hi frosch123 :)
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13:19<dada__>love them maps with lots of hills
13:19<dada__>just too easy if it's all flat
13:20<@Terkhen>increase the sea level a bit too :)
13:20*Terkhen likes hilly peninsulas and islands
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13:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by terkhen :: r24626 /trunk/src (group_gui.cpp road_cmd.cpp) (2012-10-25 17:38:12 UTC)
13:38<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5432]: MSVC 2010 warnings.
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24627 /trunk/src/lang (catalan.txt unfinished/tamil.txt) (2012-10-25 17:45:14 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 5 changes by arnau
13:45<@DorpsGek>tamil - 190 changes by aswn
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13:53<__ln__>hmm, it's snowing at this time of year
13:56<frosch123>is that realistic?
14:04<Zuu>I've heard and seen pictures of it further north. However no snow here.
14:12<Kjetil>It snowed here earlier today
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14:18<@Alberth>hi andy
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: until a few days ago, we had 24°C
14:22<MNIM>I had 22C until yesterday, now it's half that
14:23<frosch123>-125C ?
14:25<@Alberth>or 0x116 perhaps
14:25<MNIM>frosch123: C, not K!
14:27<@Alberth>MNIM: then you're missing about 125 degrees :p
14:30*Rubidium wonders whether MNIM would use the same phrasing when it's -22C and becomes -11C. Did the temperature half?
14:31<Rubidium>s/half/halve/?
14:31<MNIM>if I were a good mathematician, I would.
14:31<MNIM>...I am not a good mathematician.
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14:35<Wolf01>oddink o/
14:36<@Alberth>evenink Wolf01
14:50<Wolf01>tranquillity lane this evening too?
14:51<Rubidium>oh... you want something to talk about. I have something with Italian subtitles you might like
14:54<Rubidium>Wolf01: especially for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz7TD9FpRTw
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14:55<Wolf01>lolwhut? it's worse than teletubbies
14:55<Wolf01>at least they are pretty :P
14:56<Rubidium>can you imagine another song of that same group was #1 for 17 weeks?
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15:24<drac_boy>hi
15:25<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r24628 /trunk/src/script/api (script_road.cpp script_road.hpp) (2012-10-25 19:25:31 UTC)
15:25<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Document and enforce precondition start != end for ScriptRoad::RemoveRoad and ScriptRoad::RemoveRoadFull
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16:05<@DorpsGek>Commit by zuu :: r24629 trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt (2012-10-25 20:05:04 UTC)
16:05<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r24628): Also update regression test
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16:47<MNIM>what the heck 0.0
16:47<MNIM>there's ottd for android?
16:48<Kjetil>OTTD for everything
16:48<Rubidium>MNIM: no, OpenTTD *on* Android
16:48<MNIM>well, except for ios.
16:48<MNIM>'cause screw iCrap?
16:48<Rubidium>MNIM: there was OpenTTD *on* iOS
16:48<Rubidium>but Apple doesn't like it
16:49<MNIM>hehehe
16:49<MNIM>same thing, really.
16:49<MNIM>anyway.
16:49*MNIM DL-s the F out of ottd
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16:49<Rubidium>for OpenTTD *for* Android you first need to do many changes to the UI before it's touchscreen usable
16:52<drac_boy>heh
16:53*drac_boy is still waiting to be able to run ottd along ttdxp yet but will just play with the latter alone for the time being till then
16:54<Rubidium>huh? You can run both next to eachother, can't you?
16:55<andythenorth>eh?
16:55<drac_boy>its either 1. complains about being a window exe and not run or 2. wouldn't even network at all
16:56<drac_boy>but I'll rather not rant about it
16:56<frosch123>andythenorth: is snow a subtype of water cargo?
16:56<andythenorth>frosch123 I have no idea :)
16:56<drac_boy>snow cargo? 0_0 what kind of funny idea is that now
16:56<andythenorth>I thought we didn't discuss subtypes any more?
16:56<frosch123>exactly, we are only trolling
16:56<andythenorth>ask Michael in the forums
16:56<Kjetil>snow cargo isn't that dumb
16:56<andythenorth>snow is a valid cargo
16:56<andythenorth>in snowy places, they truck a lot of snow
16:57<Kjetil>Getting rid of the snow in cities is a huge challenge during the winter
16:57<andythenorth>use fire
16:57*drac_boy would rather just pack down the snow and/or set it into an artifical ski/sled hill nearby
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16:58<drac_boy>otherwise they shouldn't had built a large car-depending population there in first place ;)
16:58<frosch123>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV2xpf3AN4s <- that's how it was done in my home town
16:59<frosch123>well, i guess it is still done that way
17:00<andythenorth>oh mogs
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17:02<andythenorth>in the uk stuff just stops when it snows
17:02<frosch123>yeah, places with > 50 cm snow can deal better with it, than places with < 10 cm
17:03<frosch123>> 2m it gets complicated again :)
17:03<Kjetil>then it's time to dig in
17:03<Rubidium>why does it get more complicated with >2m?
17:03<andythenorth>just more costly
17:03<andythenorth>http://foremost.ca/index_vehicles.php
17:04<Rubidium>it gets pretty messy when it starts to thaw
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17:04<Rubidium>but while it's freezing the snow should pretty much stay up and you'd be able to make 'canals' in the snow
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17:14<frosch123>night
17:14<Kjetil>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK5OdrwJsuo - snowclearing at the airport
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17:15<@Terkhen>good night
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17:20<andythenorth>night
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17:44<Wolf01>'night all
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17:59<__ln__>http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/dutch-warship-destroys-pirate-mother-ship/story?id=17554703
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18:08<MNIM>hehe. suckers tried to open fire on some of the best trained regular soldiers in the world.
18:08<MNIM>baaad idea.
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18:58<supermop>anyone want to play a game tonight?
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 26 00:00:52 2012