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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-10-30

---Logopened Tue Oct 30 00:00:58 2012
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01:35<MoreBacon>crash?
01:35<MoreBacon>or just me?
01:38<Rubidium>I see no reason why quiggle's download redirects to https. As far as I am aware we do not have https binaries
01:40<Rubidium>thus that smells like something which his browser does, and after going to https://binaries it will redirect to secure/binaries which I doubt has a connection to the balancer, or is that connected to the balancer?
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01:41<Rubidium>even then... both the https and non-https work for me (tm)
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01:55<Rubidium>might there be issues redirecting to the US mirrors?
01:55<Rubidium>I'll leave it for TrueBrain ;)
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02:11<Joseph_Fritz>Anybody wants to see my basement?
02:13<Joseph_Fritz>It is time to wake up, jackasses.
02:14<Joseph_Fritz>'Nam won't burn itself.
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03:05<TrueBrain>Rubidium: for sure I don't serve https redirects, so I am totally puzzled too
03:07<TrueBrain>I am rather surprised the https version works too btw :D
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03:32<+michi_cc>TrueBrain: I've just checked and the HTTPS Anywhere extension has a ruleset for OpenTTD. I guess binaries worked by accident before.
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03:55<Markk>NGC3982: Oi mate, I lost that when I was 14.
04:00<@Terkhen>good morning
04:01-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd
04:04<Markk>Goedemorgen.
04:05<NGC3982>Markk: I usually save those jokes for Ghlargh, and i see it was for a reason ;_;.
04:05<Markk>:)
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04:19<NGC3982>I see that there has been some hassle with the site this night.
04:20*NGC3982 thinks it has something to do with the content error he noticed yester evening.
04:20<__ln__>http://arxiv.org/abs/1210.1847
04:21<NGC3982>__ln__: Sweet jesus
04:21<NGC3982>10^11GeV..
04:21<NGC3982>:D
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04:26<@peter1138>16 joules?
04:26-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6DE98.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
04:26<NGC3982>(+.2)
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04:27<@peter1138>.02
04:27<NGC3982>Oh?
04:28<@peter1138>or 0.003 kcal
04:28<@peter1138>so what is this figure?
04:31<NGC3982>It's a fantastic number, when actually exploring the pixelation of the lattice spacing.
04:31<NGC3982>http://www.scribd.com/doc/111295000/Simulated-Universe
04:31<NGC3982>Here is the full paper
04:31<@peter1138>sorry i'm not that bright
04:32<NGC3982>Im not actually aware of the simulation results, or purpose.
04:33-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:34<NGC3982>It's just that the energy density in the universe is fantastic
04:34<NGC3982>And the energy of empty space completely obliterates everything else
04:34<NGC3982>It's seriosly fucking up science (to quote Lawrence Krauss)
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04:55<benny>Who is in charge of finger.openttd.org?
04:55<Markk>My thumb.
04:56<benny>Silly goose.
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05:00<blathijs>benny: Better to just ask the real question you have :-)
05:01<blathijs>benny: And TrueBrain is our main server admin, FWIW
05:06*NGC3982 prepares a no-brainer pun
05:11<benny>blathijs: I'm writing a simple bash script that installs OpenTTD for a school project. The user is prompted for which version of openttd to install, and i'd like some sort of way to verify that this version actually exists.
05:12<benny>I was thinking an always-updated list of every openttd version available on the binaries server (nightlies too), but there might be a simpler way to do it.
05:12<blathijs>benny: Can't you just find out if a version exists by trying to download it?
05:14<benny>I'm such a goddamn genious
05:14<benny> /facepalm
05:28<benny>Yup, checking HTTP response codes with curl works.
05:28<benny>Thanks, can't believe I didn't think of that.
05:30<@Yexo>good morning
05:35<Ammler>benny: you might also use finger.openttd.org to get latest stable/nightly/whatever
05:37<benny>The three first lines in versions.txt?
05:39<benny>Ammler: Oh I see, versions.txt has everything.
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06:13<@Terkhen>hi Yexo
06:14<@Terkhen>benny did you check OpenTTD auto updater?
06:14<krinn>morning all
06:14<@Terkhen>IIRC it has a thread on the general subforum
06:14<@Terkhen>hi krinn
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06:19<benny>Terkhen: Windows-only and GUI-based afaik
06:20<benny>Terkhen: And I'm writing this as a school assignment
06:20-!-benny is now known as benny|recess
06:21<@planetmaker>benny|recess, you know auto update or autostart?
06:23<@planetmaker>ah, Terkhen mentioned it already :-)
06:23<@Terkhen>ok :)
06:23<@planetmaker>but there's autoupdate which is a bash script :-)
06:23*NGC3982 sends his horde of women after PM
06:24<krinn>When doing GSCompanyMode i feel like i get the company event too, ending with getting GSEvent+ each event the company i have switch too, wrong ?
06:24<NGC3982>TrueBrain: Im getting the same error today as yesterday.
06:24<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/Gu3SR.png
06:25<NGC3982>On a new computer, on another network
06:25<NGC3982>Oh, sorry. The second time i tried, it worked as usual again.
06:25<NGC3982>:E
06:25<krinn>NGC3982, lol got it too
06:27<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Autostart <-- I mean this, benny|recess ... but the source link is broken
06:30<@planetmaker>hm, Ammler, where have you hidden the source for autostart?
06:30<@planetmaker>I fail to find it anywhere, neither the old svn nor in a hg repo
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06:48<benny|recess>planetmaker: there is?
06:48-!-benny|recess is now known as benny
06:48<benny>planetmaker: Oh, I didn't see the link.
06:53<krinn>benny try that one http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=49672
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06:59<benny>krinn: Thanks, some good help in there.
07:01<Ammler>https://hgweb.openttdcoop.org/autostart <-- very outdated, though
07:05<benny>Ammler: Talk about putting me to shame..
07:06<Ammler>https://hg.openttdcoop.org/autostart would be better
07:06<Ammler>the script was done as I had no clue about bash :-P
07:07<benny>No clue about bash, this?
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07:09<Ammler>this is plain ugly
07:09<benny>I'll just go cry in a corner.
07:09<Ammler>but I still use it :-)
07:09<benny>This is no clue about bash: https://github.com/bennythen00b/openttd-install/blob/master/openttd_install.sh
07:10<Ammler>then I had the idea so make a kind of bashlib: https://hg.openttdcoop.org/ottdbash
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07:12<Ammler>devzone should be able to host git repos too, btw...
07:17<benny>do i register at dev.openttdcoop.org?
07:17<@planetmaker>only you can tell, whether you do ;-)
07:18<benny>ahem
07:18<@planetmaker>but of course you're very welcome to do so
07:18<benny>do i have to register at dev.openttdcoop.org in order to login to hg.openttdcoop.org?
07:18<benny>i just might
07:18<@planetmaker>download is feasible without account
07:19<@planetmaker>I mean... why would we want to force people to register, if they just want to retrieve a file?
07:19<benny>what no
07:20<benny>i could put the repo for my bash script on there
07:20<benny>im trying to figure this git stuff out
07:22<@planetmaker>yes. Then you need to register. As upload of course requires an account
07:23<@planetmaker>otherwise anyone could update an arbitrary project. That of course is not wanted
07:23<@planetmaker>By default we host git repos. But in principle git, svn and bazaar are also feasible
07:24<benny>okay, so i take it dev.openttdcoop.org and hg.openttdcoop.org are related
07:24<@planetmaker>he.... by default we host mercurial repos ;-)
07:24<@planetmaker>yes, they are
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07:25<@planetmaker>dev.o.o is the redmine project management interface while hg.o.o is mercurial's native ...
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07:26<@planetmaker>dev.o.o is the redmine project management interface while hg.o.o is mercurial's native ...
07:26<benny>you lost me
07:26<@planetmaker>... web view
07:27<@planetmaker>well, generally things on openttdcoop.org are related ;-)
07:27<@planetmaker>dev.o.o is the project management interface
07:27<@planetmaker>hg.o.o is just a web interface for accessing repos. Not needed really as also accessible via dev.o.o
07:27<benny>i see
07:28<@planetmaker>and then there's rhodecode.o.o... another repo management interface
07:28<@planetmaker>but that's still kinda in evaluation phase
07:28<@planetmaker>and there's for things which build binaries als a bundles.openttdcoop.org which hosts the releases of the projects
07:29<benny>im curious
07:29<benny>the domain names
07:29<benny>what do they refer to?
07:29<benny>physical or virtual servers?
07:29<benny>services?
07:29<@planetmaker>depends :-)
07:29<@planetmaker>but it's all on the same physical server
07:30<@planetmaker>but split in different VMs as suitable
07:30<benny>so dev.o.o and hg.o.o are different VMs?
07:31<@planetmaker>I think not... but doesn't matter, does it?
07:31<benny>just curious
07:32<@planetmaker>we're in the process to restructure it... so things change. Hopefully in a way that no-one notices that the backend changes ;-)
07:32<benny>currently go to IT in school but the education is hilarious
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07:33<ben>screen, dont do that
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07:45<@peter1138>annoying bugs of screen...
07:46<@peter1138>school IT education: "this is a keyboard... and THIS is a mouse"
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>i must have had bad education, because i don't remember this being taught at our school
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07:59<NGC3982>That is computer education
07:59<NGC3982>And should not be confused with IT education.
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>but we did have some introduction into a weird editor that came with DOS 4, which was already ancient at that time
08:00<NGC3982>Ew.
08:01<@peter1138>same thing as far as schools are concerned
08:01<@peter1138>or were, back in my day
08:01<@peter1138>btw, i use school in the english meaning, i.e. up to 16 years old
08:03<@peter1138>we had the most awesome colour printers back then
08:03<@peter1138>could only print 1 dot at a time
08:03<@peter1138>so had to feed the page very very slowly
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>i was at a scientific-focused school, we had IT from 7th grade onwards
08:03<@peter1138>how old is 7th grade?
08:04<Eddi|zuHause>you usually turn 14 in 8th grade
08:04<@peter1138>i had "computer studies" after 14, but it was one of the optional ones
08:05<@peter1138>and we faffed about on bbc micros half the time
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>so 16 would be 10th grade
08:05<NGC3982>BBC Micro's?
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>my school went up to 12th grade
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>in some other regions in germany up to 13th grade
08:05<@peter1138>16-18 at school is called 6th form here
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>and then you're eligible for university
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>if you don't want to go to university, you can quit after 10th grade, or 9th grade if you're really dumb
08:07<Eddi|zuHause>but you have to decide whether you use the 9, 10 or 12/13 year school after 4th grade, so rather early. which is politically somewhat disputed
08:07<@peter1138>here you can quit at 16 and go into the college system
08:07<@peter1138>which can lead to uni again
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08:21<@planetmaker>oh well... we did do some basic programming in turbo pascal and in prolog... weired stuff
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09:03<magdom>oi
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09:33<Eddi|zuHause>prolog is fun :)
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>although we did prolog only in university...
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>hm... tt-ms.de seems to be down
09:41<Sacro>likesprolog( Eddi|zuHause ).
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09:44<Eddi|zuHause>that is probably wrong syntax :p
09:51<Sacro>nope
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure | had special meaning in prolog :)
09:55<NGC3982>Man.
09:55<NGC3982>Building a fully working 2048 map with ECS is -hard-.
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>last time i tried ECS, it was unplayable on a 2048 map
10:10<Ammler>is it intendend to skip Zuu from 1.2 readme?
10:11<V453000>last time I played ecs it was unplayable on any map :p
10:12<Ammler>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1848/
10:12<Ammler>hg diff -r1.2 readme.txt ^
10:14<Ammler>-rdefault*
10:15<Ammler>For ECS, you need to fiddle with the paramters :-)
10:15<V453000>I did.
10:16<V453000>even the "best" parameters wont disable weird growth mechanism and winter/summer production for farms
10:16<V453000>having 0 in winter and like 8000 for primary industry is just dumb
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10:29<LordAro>evening all
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: with "unplayable" i meant the game speed
10:33<V453000>I know :)
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>the game speed i had on my 386 DX25 with a full map was about the same as an ECS game with an empty map :)
10:35<@Yexo><Ammler> is it intendend to skip Zuu from 1.2 readme? <- he becamse dev after 1.2 was released, so what's the problem?
10:43<Ammler>nothing, was just wondering :-)
10:46<Ammler>Yexo: it's not like you don't edit the readme in 1.2 anymore
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12:21<andythenorth>lo
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13:05<Zuu>krinn: If the current development-version of scp is free of known showstoppers, I could release a NoCarGoal with optional scp later tonight. By making scp toggable via a setting, its not the end of the world if more scp bugs turn up. NoCarGoal users can then disable scp if it causes them trouble.
13:06<Zuu>But that could help getting a scp server out that AIs can start to do some work with.
13:07<@planetmaker>scp ?
13:07<@planetmaker>it's another scp than I usually think of, I guess
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13:17<Zuu>planetmaker: Script Communication Protocol
13:17<Zuu>http://wiki.openttd.org/Script_communication_protocol
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13:18<Zuu>It's way less secure than the usual scp :-p
13:19<Zuu>Humans that know the protocol can eavesdrop the communication by keeping his sign list open.
13:38<@planetmaker>:-)
13:38<@planetmaker>thx
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13:54<krinn>yes zuu
13:55<krinn>(i'm back)
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13:59<jonty-comp>502 on downloads :(
14:00<jonty-comp>presumably on the mirror selector
14:04*andythenorth wonders how many ottd downloads we're getting at the moment
14:05<andythenorth>more or less than usual
14:05<andythenorth>?
14:05<jonty-comp>none probably, since it's broken
14:06<jonty-comp>(for me and 1 person who joined #tycoon, anyway)
14:06<andythenorth>less than usual probably
14:06<andythenorth>502 for me too
14:11<@Terkhen>TrueBrain: check jonty-comp's lines above this one
14:11-!-Devroush [~dennis@d5152695A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:13<@planetmaker>there's openttd support in #tycoon?
14:14<andythenorth>I thought it was just spam there?
14:16-!-Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
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14:16<@Alberth>hi hi
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: it maybe naive people who try to get it :p
14:17<krinn>bananas is down ?
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>some ape ate all of them.
14:18<krinn>504 Gateway Time-out
14:18<krinn>monkeys do it well
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>oh, it increased. it was 502 in the report above :p
14:19<krinn>oh sorry, didn't saw the few lines upper
14:19<krinn>nothing new so :)
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>it's all TrueBrain's fault
14:19<krinn>ah yes, got 504 but on upload
14:20<krinn>isn't it always TrueBrain's fault ?
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>or no.
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>depends on your logic :p
14:20<krinn>:P
14:20<krinn>french's logic
14:20<krinn>it mean weird one
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14:37<AnotherOther>Anyone here not actually idle?
14:38*Alberth is
14:38*planetmaker is and will continue. Later folks :-)
14:38<AnotherOther>Great, do you know anything about the OpenTTD downloads?
14:38<AnotherOther>Its down
14:38<krinn>we knows
14:38<@Alberth>that is also my only information :)
14:38<AnotherOther>Joy
14:39<AnotherOther>Well, hopefully it'll come back up
14:39<krinn>must be a proof of how popular it is
14:39<@Alberth>somewhen it will be
14:39<AnotherOther>Seems like a server being down would be connected to some sort of alarm
14:40*NGC3982 suggest a topic change.
14:40<AnotherOther>Suit yourself
14:40<krinn>like if anyone read topic...
14:40<NGC3982>krinn: True.
14:40*NGC3982 didn't.
14:40<andythenorth>hmm
14:41*Alberth did notice it was the same as the last time :)
14:41<andythenorth>who wants to get pingdom alerts? :P
14:41<krinn>specially too crowd topic like this one
14:41<andythenorth>users are probably about as effective as pingdom
14:42<NGC3982>andythenorth: That sounds interesting.
14:42<andythenorth>I doubt TrueBrain wants to get sms when openttd goes down :P
14:43<NGC3982>I would, i guess.
14:43<NGC3982>Or, i could, i guess.
14:43<@Alberth>especially as the server is elsewhere located :)
14:43<NGC3982>Let's configure an auto-dialer
14:43<andythenorth>NGC3982: you had ssh access to openttd servers? :o
14:44<andythenorth>had / have /s
14:44<NGC3982>No
14:44<NGC3982>Im just being silly. :/
14:45<NGC3982>I was actually refering to being able to make spree of issues.
14:45<NGC3982>But never mind.
14:45<@Alberth>andythenorth: not much use when it's down :p
14:45<andythenorth>usually the box is up, services are down in my experience :P
14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24651 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2012-10-30 18:45:28 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>dutch - 6 changes by habell
14:45<@DorpsGek>english_US - 6 changes by Rubidium
14:45<@DorpsGek>finnish - 6 changes by jpx_
14:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 3 changes by jhsoby
14:45<@DorpsGek>russian - 5 changes by Lone_Wolf
14:46<@Alberth>commit still works :)
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14:48<krinn>banans website report my file, seem to upload didn't fail finally
14:54<SomeBacon>if i expand the towns my mines belong to will they be more productive?
14:54<andythenorth>no
14:54<@Alberth>not that I know :)
14:56<SomeBacon>is there a way to make them more productive?
14:56-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.185.243] has joined #openttd
14:56<@Alberth>serve them well
14:57<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Industry_production is how it works
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15:01<SomeBacon>thanks
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15:02<LordAro>has a certain person been informed that http://binaries.openttd.org/ is 502 bad gateway-ing ?
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>certain persons get better notified if you actually highlight them...
15:04<LordAro>i was checking first ;)
15:04<LordAro>Truebrain: ^
15:04<LordAro>happy? :P
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, you can try reading logs, if that's not too much to ask
15:06<@DorpsGek>Commit by yexo :: r24652 extra/musa/text.py (2012-10-30 19:06:09 UTC)
15:06<@DorpsGek>[MUSA] -Fix: don't crash when both description_text and description_file are missing from the config file
15:07<@DorpsGek>Commit by yexo :: r24653 extra/musa/musa.py (2012-10-30 19:07:01 UTC)
15:07<@DorpsGek>[MUSA] -Feature: hide password when entered interactively
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15:48<Wolf01>hello o/+
15:48<Wolf01>uh, what's that attached on my arm?
15:49<@Yexo>your hand?
15:49<@Alberth>a sword to fight the deamons?
15:49<Wolf01>no, at first it looked like a spider, but now there isn't anymore, see o/
15:50<@Alberth>phew, it's gone!
15:50<@Alberth>welcome
15:50<Wolf01>:)
15:52<TrueBrain>Python segfault! \o/
15:52<TrueBrain>libmysqlclient
15:52<TrueBrain>awesome
15:54<TrueBrain>most likely cause: trying to use MySQL in a threaded env
15:54<TrueBrain>jolly good
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>threads are probably evil if you use a connection created in another thread
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>at least sqlite complained when i tried that
15:58<TrueBrain>no, they happen in the global space
15:58<TrueBrain>the issue seems to be that if 2 threads happen to execute something at the same time
15:58<TrueBrain>highly unlikely ...
15:58<TrueBrain>but from what I understand, they dont lock .. so .. yeah ...
15:58<TrueBrain>well, solution was easy
15:59<TrueBrain>make a new connection every time someone asks
15:59<TrueBrain>PHP does ... so why shouldn't my balancer ;)
15:59<jonty-comp>excellent methodology :P
15:59<TrueBrain>well ... a running service is more valuable than a resource friendly one
16:00<TrueBrain>as, in the limit, the most resource friendly service is one that isn't running
16:00<andythenorth>TrueBrain: if you rm the spec, you can always pass it
16:01<TrueBrain>why doesn't mysql_ping reconnect the socket
16:01<TrueBrain>that is just weird
16:01<TrueBrain>and bad
16:08<TrueBrain>for the balancer it seems I have to write a MySQL thread, which only handles queries
16:08<TrueBrain>and send stuff to it ....
16:08<TrueBrain>nasty
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>hm... after all these years i still read it as "OTT DAU" instead of "OTTD AU" :p
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>(with "DAU" being the "Dumbest Assumable User")
16:10<@peter1138>um
16:10<@peter1138>http://thewaltdisneycompany.com/disney-news/press-releases/2012/10/disney-acquire-lucasfilm-ltd
16:12<andythenorth>I am so bored of shareholder value
16:13<andythenorth>and that is speaking as a shareholder :P
16:13<andythenorth>was Walt Disney's mission to increase long term shareholder value?
16:13<andythenorth>or was it to make epic shit?
16:13<Rubidium>andythenorth: epic shit
16:13<NGC3982>I thought the current state was to survive.
16:14<Rubidium>it's what basically all companies do
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16:14<Rubidium>e.g. the banks a few years ago; we're still in their epic shit
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17:24<Wolf01>'night
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17:29<MoreBacon>does using 2 engines instead of 1 improve train speed/acceleration?
17:31<Supercheese>It definitely will improve acceleration
17:31<Supercheese>it will only improve top speed if the 1-engine train couldn't reach top speed
17:31<Supercheese>due to it being not powerful enough
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17:32<MoreBacon>will a slower one only help accelerate to its top speed?
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17:42<Supercheese>Generally a multi-engine train is only as fast as its slowest engine
17:43<Supercheese>in order to have special "banking engines" or whatnot, the .grf author has to implement some code wizardry
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18:40<@Terkhen>good night
18:46<krinn>how bananas handle version conflict ? i mean upload version 12, then changing something in version 12 and re-uploading version 12 : openttd see update and redownload newest version even version didn't change
18:46<krinn>night Terkhen
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: the content download only checks MD5, not the version
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: version is only checked in the newgrf picker window, then all lower versions are not shown (by default), but all files with the same version are shown
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18:51<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, so version replace should work for small fixes ?
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: it will horribly confuse people...
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: better increase the version for anything you publish
18:53<krinn>except it's dirty as its a lib
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18:53<krinn>version increase don't give bugfixes, until header are changed
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19:06<@planetmaker>krinn, don't use the same version if it differs. Even by one bit
19:06<@planetmaker>versions come for free
19:07<@planetmaker>and if you release a new one with the same version, a random (or both) will be shown - and how would I know which is newer?
19:07<@planetmaker>if you update the version string as displayed, you really need to update the other version, too
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19:32<krinn>ok planetmaker won't do, version++ on each release
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21:26<drac_boy>hi
21:26<Supercheese>Greetings
21:27<drac_boy>how're you cheesy? heh
21:28<Supercheese>Well, 'twas a username I came up with when I was about 14, and I haven't seen a cause to change it since
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22:21<Flygon>Supercheese, welcome to the club
22:21<Flygon>Had this name ever since I was 11!
22:21<Flygon>And that's why I have such a ridiculous name
22:21<Supercheese>Clearly Pokemon-inspired
22:21<Supercheese>or well, directly Pokemon, even
22:21<Flygon>Ayup
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 31 00:01:00 2012