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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-11-09

---Logopened Fri Nov 09 00:00:16 2012
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02:09<__ln__>tere hõmmikust
02:10<Supercheese>Buenas tardes
02:20<NGC3982>Morning.
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03:02<andythenorth>moin
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03:09<andythenorth>I can return a spriteset directly from a switch right?
03:10<andythenorth>or do I need the action 2 tilelayout?
03:10<andythenorth>or will nml magically fill that in? :P
03:11<andythenorth>nvm
03:11*andythenorth read the docs
03:13<Eddi|zuHause>i think that was added recentlly, but maybe not for all features
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03:15<andythenorth>docs say not for industry tiles
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03:43<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:45<Supercheese>My sister says John Broomhall's music is terrible
03:45<Supercheese>blasphemy; heresy; lunacy!
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03:55<Supercheese>anyway, good night all
03:55<Supercheese>valete omnes
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04:47<NGC3982>"In short, the BMW CiC has a great customer service, and it represents the brand at its fullest."."
04:47<NGC3982>Does that look OK, language wise?
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04:50<TinoDidriksen>"a great customer service" ... lose the "a"
04:52<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like code for "the product is totally broken, but at least when you complained about it, they didn't insult you for being stupid"
04:59<NGC3982>TinoDidriksen: I see, thank you.
05:07<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: Hehe
05:08<Pinkbeast>Why do you ask, NGC?
05:14<NGC3982>Im making a summary for a project
05:15<NGC3982>And my english is not as great as the customers are important.
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05:43<__ln__>If it's important, you should have a native Englishman or native American read it.
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06:01<Flygon>And don't hire a native Australian
06:01<Flygon>None of us speak right
06:02<Markk>You guys speak down?
06:02<Markk>Because you live in down under?
06:04<dihedral>they live upside down
06:05<Flygon>Nah
06:06<Flygon>We just speak with an absurd accent
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06:09<Markk>Have you ever heard an irish cunt speak then?
06:09<Flygon>Australia was founded by Irish convicts
06:10<Flygon>Well, founded by a lot of them, anyway
06:10<Markk>Especially the ones from the west coast (like Limerick, Shannon and Ennis).
06:10<Markk>"Founded" is a bit softened, eh?
06:11<Markk>People was deported to Australia and the deported folks started a country.
06:11<Markk>Which turned out quite a bit better than the U, S and A.
06:12<V453000>Kylie: I have no clue how can it "think" it was replaced but ... perhaps an issue could be that the train was serviced not-long-ago. Trains need to require servicing in order to seek autoreplace depot. Of course if you force them into the depot they will autoreplace (and service as well). This happens even when breakdowns are off, as well as disabled servicing when breakdowns off.
06:12<V453000>Kylie: station ratings are simple, just have a train loading in the station all the time ... therefore you need 2+ trains for each station
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06:18<Flygon>Markk: Depends on your perspective
06:18<Flygon>The Aboriginals are still quite pissed
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06:19<Markk>:)
06:19<Markk>yes
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06:21<@planetmaker>V453000, unless you have a newgrf which modifies station ratings ;-)
06:22<V453000>almost forgot :/
06:23<DanMacK>Hey Andy
06:23<V453000>I will stay politically correct and declare that I do not consider that a very good solution :P
06:23<@planetmaker>hey andythenorth , DanMacK :-)
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06:23<@planetmaker>I concur, V453000
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06:24<V453000>:)
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06:25*DanMacK thinks Andy is having some connection issues this morning
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06:36<andythenorth>hi DanMacK
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06:48<DanMacK>BBIAB
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07:35<DanMacK>O/
07:36<Ammler>\o
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07:54<Flygon>/o\
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08:39<DataJuggler>hey frosch123, are you here?
08:40<frosch123>in theory
08:40<DataJuggler>:)
08:41<frosch123>i am pondering whether i am hungry enough, or still too lazy to cook something
08:42<DataJuggler>first: thanks for the advice with the signals... sorry for the bug report yesterday, I was somehow tired.. . :-P ...but the thing with train drive trough themself, isnt it a bug?? or is it meant to be that way sometimes?
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08:42<frosch123>trains never colide with themself
08:42<DataJuggler>:-) ...I'm just finished eating ...
08:42<DataJuggler>they do! I swear!
08:43<DataJuggler>it was the second savegame I added to the bugreport....
08:44<frosch123> well, it they do not find a path, they drive randomly, or always right or something like that
08:44<Elukka>trains can go through themselves but i've never had that happen in normal gameplay
08:44<Elukka>only when i'm purposefully breaking teh game :P
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08:44<frosch123>about trains colliding with themself, there is some post by rb somewhere on the fourms explaining the reasoning in detail
08:45<Elukka>it doesn't seem like something that matters
08:45<frosch123>mainly it is impractical, not important, but cpu expensive
08:46<Flygon>Oh man
08:46<DataJuggler>ähm, it doesn't collide, just drive trough himself back to the one-way path-signal where he's came from, ending up in a 'cant go forward nor backward'-state... :-P
08:46<Flygon>Train self-collision...
08:47<Flygon>I've had situations where trains go around in tight circles into their own rear, because the pathfinder got really really confused
08:47<DataJuggler>but nevermind.... it's sometimes also cute when trains do silly stuff... :)
08:47<Flygon>I've heard of "Go screw yourself", but this is ridiculous :D
08:47<frosch123>DataJuggler: well, you forced it over that signal
08:47<frosch123>it did not wanted to
08:48<Elukka>i've almost never had the pathfinder get confused
08:48<Elukka>it's really really solid
08:48<Elukka>if a train is somewhere i shouldn't be i always go with the assumption that it's my mistake
08:48<Elukka>and usually it is :D
08:48<DataJuggler>i did? hm.... probably... there was the problem that the train was driving in a circle and won't stop, just right bevore...
08:49<Elukka>*it shouldn't be
08:49<__ln__>but should the plural of "forum" be "fora"?
08:49<Flygon>Elukka: It got confused because I was inexperienced with OpenTTD :P
08:49<Elukka>no because this is not latin
08:49<Flygon>But even with the proper pathfinder and proper signalling
08:50<Flygon>I've had trains make baffling pathfinding decisions, such as instead of reversing out of a set termius station (that uses two-way platforms)
08:50<Flygon>It would go forward and take a U-turn, going into a seperate platform, then go to it's intended destination
08:51<Flygon>Removing a few junctions just outside the end fixed that... but it should never have happened
08:51<Flygon>I should fire my signallers and switch operators
08:51<DataJuggler>:)
08:51<Flygon>This is also part of the reason I disable 90 degree turns
08:52<Flygon>To prevent utterly idiotic turns >_>
08:52<DataJuggler>I was thinking about that just bevore...
08:52<Flygon>As a side note
08:53<Flygon>A path-finder that checked ahead more than just one 'point' would be really nice
08:53<Flygon>eg. when it approaches a station, it intentionally makes a distinction between terminus and through platforms
08:53<Flygon>I can hear you all screaming "Waypoints", but space restrictions! D:
08:54<@Alberth>Flygon: usually crazy moves like driving through another platform are the result of something blocking the original path
08:54<Flygon>Oh
08:54<Flygon>Yes, that'd explain it
08:54<Flygon>Still, it's very unwanted behaviour
08:54<@Alberth>eg a signal that is placed in the wrong direction
08:54<Flygon>Because it just takes up platforms and interrupts the paths of trains on both sides
08:54<Flygon>It was probably trains blocking the path
08:57<DataJuggler>would be also nice if theres an option 'go to the next depot (on your way)' ... they sometimes go in the wrong direction because the depot is 1 or 2 fields nearer, and then they are on a one-way and using space other trains could use.....
08:57<DataJuggler>...but on the other hand... i can
08:58<DataJuggler>...give a clear command... :P
08:59<@Alberth>I always build connections such that trains can go in any direction they want :)
09:01<DataJuggler>my actual concept is 2 one-way trails in the oposite direction.... I like it like this, and it works good for me... so i don't need to build more than 2 trails for longer connections...
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09:13<DataJuggler>frosch123: I remember now what I did. The Train was not driving circles, it was waiting for a free path, but there really was no other trains in the near; no trains until next path-signs in every direction, so I was curious where he want to go, and the result was that he'd like to go exactly the way he came from.. (over two 90°-turns)...
09:14<DataJuggler>I'll turn of 90°turns now...
09:16<DataJuggler>and bevore I forget: It's a great game! I already enjoyed many hours of pleasure and fun!!! ...thanks for all who made this become (virtual)reallity... ;)
09:18<DataJuggler>et bon appetit... än guätä... mahlzeit! ...
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09:39<dihedral>anybody here who might be interested in paid .net development ?
09:39<dihedral>we have the source for a simple project - an installer, which needs some gui tweaks and additional features?
09:40<dihedral>the company would pay of course
09:41<Ammler>the guy who wrote the "other" autopilot used .net
09:41<Ammler>and he is afaik also German
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09:44<drac_boy>hi
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09:45<dihedral>i am more after a ... goood .net developer :-P
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>so what are you expecting to find here? :)
09:51<__ln__>was it yorick who planned to port OpenTTD to C#...
09:51<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, possibly someone with .net skills
09:52<dada__>ouch. hit the ship limit
09:52<drac_boy>dada__ heh and what was the limit? :)
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>500-ish by default?
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10:23<Pensacola>quick question: I have the opengfx+ trains installed but my open wagons do not seem to pick up iron ore
10:23<Pensacola>what am I doing wrong?
10:23<@planetmaker>did you refit to iron ore?
10:23<@planetmaker>does the station provide iron ore?
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10:25<Pensacola>the station does provide iron ore, but the open wagon is listed under both coal and iron ore
10:26<Pensacola>ah the refitting is the problem
10:26<Pensacola>how to do that?
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10:27<@planetmaker>send train to depot. press refit button in train window. select iron ore
10:27<@Terkhen>move the vehicle to a depot and refit it, or give it a refit order in that station
10:28<Pensacola>thx!
10:28<Pensacola>I'm such a noob sometimes
10:31<DataJuggler>hmm... now it happend again... 4 trains in the trainstation waiting for a free way, but there is nothing from pathsignal at the trainstation to the next pathsignal... or the pathsignal after the next... :S
10:32<DataJuggler>does it happens that citicens commit suicide on the rail tracks, so the traindriver won't drive throug this area anymore?
10:33<+michi_cc>Enable the setting to show reserved tracks if you haven't, that can often clear things up. You might for example missing a signal somewhere so the path extends much further than you think.
10:35<DataJuggler>it's enabled, but verry hard to recognise with the better grafic set... i'll load the old ones for a moment...
10:35<frosch123>"better" :p
10:37<DataJuggler>yeah... hehe...
10:39<dada__>[15:52] <drac_boy> dada__ heh and what was the limit? :) <-- 3000
10:39<dada__>raised it to 5000
10:40<V453000>do that with trains :(
10:40<V453000>:)
10:44<DataJuggler>oh, with openGFX-grafics it's obvious what was wrong... forgot a Pathsignal witch was(n't) hidden by the factory-pic of zbase-grafx... /slapshimself
10:47<drac_boy>dada__ why are you not even managing your ships properly? :P
10:47<frosch123>DataJuggler: you know about transparency options?
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10:48<DataJuggler>terroretically I do...
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11:12<Rubidium>dihedral: I only develop for .org or .com ;)
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11:59<DanMacK>Hey all
12:07<@Alberth>o/
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13:20<Ammler>dbg: [net] [udp] advertising to the master server is failing <-- how do I fix that again?
13:20<Ammler>@ports
13:20<@DorpsGek>Ammler: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
13:22<Ammler>sorry, ignore, forgot the new port
13:26<andythenorth>lo
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13:28<@Alberth>oi
13:35<@Alberth>I like the construction sprites, simple and effective :)
13:36<oskari89>Of FIRS?
13:36<oskari89>:)
13:37<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1053512#p1053512
13:43<oskari89>:)
13:43<oskari89>That's good.
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13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24676 /trunk/src/lang (10 files) (2012-11-09 18:45:58 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 4 changes by Maccie123
13:46<@DorpsGek>belarusian - 3 changes by KorneySan
13:46<@DorpsGek>catalan - 5 changes by arnau
13:46<@DorpsGek>english_US - 3 changes by Rubidium
13:46<@DorpsGek>italian - 3 changes by lorenzodv
13:46<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 22 changes by jhsoby
13:46<@DorpsGek>polish - 15 changes by wojteks86
13:46<@DorpsGek>brazilian_portuguese - 20 changes by Tucalipe
13:46<@DorpsGek>russian - 3 changes by KorneySan
13:46<@DorpsGek>swedish - 12 changes by Joel_A
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13:48<oskari89>andythenorth: Have a release for FIRS? :)
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13:49<oskari89>Or is there something to be done before that?
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13:51<andythenorth>hmm
13:51<andythenorth>not sure
13:51<andythenorth>brb
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13:58<andythenorth>feels like a FIRS release is a way off
13:58<andythenorth>not sure why
13:59<andythenorth>too many moving parts
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14:03<@planetmaker>kudos for the nice solution for construction sprites, andythenorth :-)
14:03<@planetmaker>It's bold. It's good
14:03<andythenorth>it was invented 3 years ago :)
14:03<andythenorth>by foobar iirc
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14:03<andythenorth>dan is planning to draw construction states for every industry btw
14:04<andythenorth>but that...takes time :O
14:05<@planetmaker>our canadian Dan, for FIRS?
14:06<andythenorth>yup
14:06<andythenorth>he's stacking up industry sprites
14:10<andythenorth>so afaict, default primaries don't produce whilst being constructed
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14:10<andythenorth>but secondaries do
14:10<andythenorth>can anyone prove me wrong?
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14:16<frosch123>i thought the other way around :p
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14:17<andythenorth>oh :|
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14:17<andythenorth>what should FIRS do whilst industries are being constructed?
14:18<frosch123>i think industries have no proper flag about being finished
14:18<frosch123>only tiles know
14:18<frosch123>and they do not finish at the same time
14:18<andythenorth>no but they can set / reset a flag in storage
14:18<andythenorth>or I could not bother too
14:19<andythenorth>either is fine
14:19<frosch123>i think default lumber mill checks the north tile or so
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14:19<andythenorth>that would be trivial I guess
14:19<andythenorth>what's desirable for players?
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14:20<frosch123>i guess it just does not matter :p
14:21<andythenorth>might leave it then
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>for players it would be easier if they would produce immediately. because you get a message only when the industry opens, not when it is "finished"
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14:23<andythenorth>ok, that's a +1 then
14:23<andythenorth>to not preventing production
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>asymptotically, it doesn't matter :)
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14:25<andythenorth>it's standard realism vs gameplay issue
14:26<andythenorth>done, dusted, next issue ;)
14:26<andythenorth>Yexo: so this is just wrong var being used, replace with correct var? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4468
14:27<andythenorth>hmm
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14:27<andythenorth>I've no idea what those switches are trying to achieve
14:27<andythenorth>reading them in context, their purpose is non-obvious
14:27<frosch123>maybe var18?
14:28<frosch123>oh, that is already below
14:28<frosch123>oh, it checks layout
14:28<frosch123>so, var86 is correct
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14:28<frosch123>i guess yexo overlooked that that switch is inside cb 28
14:28<andythenorth>this shows the chain better http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1906/
14:29<frosch123>code looks correct to me :)
14:30<andythenorth>ta
14:31<frosch123>nml specs seems quite short wrt. cb 28
14:31<frosch123>it does not say there are special variables
14:33<frosch123>andythenorth: close as duplicate of #3205 :p
14:34<andythenorth>done
14:35<andythenorth>I need to figure out closure
14:35<andythenorth>old FIRS had option to decrease primary production / close industry if no supplies delivered
14:35<andythenorth>new FIRS uses supplies only as a boost
14:35<andythenorth>having to deliver them to avoid closure is crappy and stupid
14:35<andythenorth>I'm tempted to just delegate that entirely to openttd :P
14:36<andythenorth>but I don't delegate boost behaviour that way
14:36<frosch123>just give every industry a chance of 1/600 to close any month
14:36<frosch123>that gives them an average livetime of 50 years
14:37<andythenorth>what does game's default behaviour do?
14:37<andythenorth>average lifespan of 5 years?
14:37<andythenorth> :P
14:37<frosch123>default changes production and closes when drops below certain probability
14:38<frosch123>anyway, don't give them a minimal lifespan
14:38<frosch123>imo that makes it more likely for many industries closing at once
14:38<andythenorth>I might just make the parameter this: "Default primary industry production / closure behaviour: enabled | disabled"
14:39<frosch123>instead just close 1/600 every month, independent of being serviced or not :p
14:39<FLHerne>That sounds rather irritating :P
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14:51<andythenorth>I figure recycling depots are producing way too much
14:51<andythenorth>but I can't remember the old production amounts :P
14:52<frosch123>you have a vcs
14:52<frosch123>build firs r1, and check :p
14:54<andythenorth>done that :P
14:54<andythenorth>I have broken something
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14:58<andythenorth>intriguing
14:59<andythenorth>some code that shouldn't do something, does
14:59<DanMacK>?
15:00<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/industries/recycling_depot.pypnml
15:00<andythenorth>lines 101-138 should be neither needed, nor have any effect
15:00<andythenorth>but they cause production to be reduced by 4x
15:00<andythenorth>which gives the correct amount :P
15:00<andythenorth>for no reason I can see
15:00<andythenorth>removing them leads to far too much production
15:01<andythenorth>this industry is supposed to produce an amount only influenced by town population, no other factors
15:01<DanMacK>Heh
15:02<DanMacK>Interesting
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15:03<@planetmaker>andythenorth, I'd think it depends on the initial prod. level
15:05<DanMacK>Later alls!
15:05<@planetmaker>the lines 101-138 do not produce anything nor are called there. But only change how production changes, if needed
15:05<@planetmaker>see you, DanMacK
15:06<frosch123>andythenorth: where is the action0?
15:06<frosch123>did you set the automatic production multiplier thingie?
15:06<frosch123>why do you have those _prod_change thingies, if it shall only depend on population?
15:09<andythenorth>frosch123: I have no idea :)
15:09<andythenorth>it is probably a side effect of migration from nfo to nml
15:09<frosch123>or does it apply some kind of supplies?
15:09<andythenorth>no
15:10<andythenorth>I think this is just legacy, wrong code
15:10<frosch123>so, always return CB_RESULT_IND_PROD_NO_CHANGE?
15:11<frosch123>or also handle closure?
15:11<andythenorth>no closure
15:11<andythenorth>I'll figure it out
15:11<andythenorth>probably just divide by a further 8 or so
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15:30<andythenorth>done
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16:32<andythenorth>bed time
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16:33<LordAro>already?
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16:39<Eddi|zuHause>yeah he's weird...
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16:47<LordAro>baby must be affecting him...
16:47<LordAro>:)
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16:51<Eddi|zuHause>that would imply that it was different before :p
16:51<DataJuggler>is there a way to make the Industry buildings transparent too? (factory etc) ... or to turn the view?
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>yes, no
16:52<@Yexo>DataJuggler: try ctrl+x
16:52<DataJuggler>yeah! thats it... thanks :)
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18:07<frosch123>night
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19:39<drac_boy>hi
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---Logclosed Sat Nov 10 00:00:13 2012