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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-11-10

---Logopened Sat Nov 10 00:00:13 2012
---Daychanged Sat Nov 10 2012
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01:42<andythenorth>moin
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01:58<__ln__>how do you draw numbers 7 and 1 using a pencil?
01:59<Supercheese>that's a strange question
01:59<Supercheese>You mean with the line middleway up the 7?
02:00<__ln__>yes
02:00<Supercheese>I do write 7s that way
02:00<andythenorth>line
02:00<Supercheese>1s are just vertical lines
02:01<__ln__>agreed, they are
02:03<__ln__>since 2004 school kids over here have been taught not to draw the middle-horizontal line for 7, and that's a big mistake in my opinion.
02:07<andythenorth>in the UK it's non-standard to bar the 7
02:07*andythenorth was taught to do it though - bad handwriting
02:08<__ln__>no bar leads to situations like this: http://hs11.snstatic.fi/webkuva/taysi/960/1305614210240
02:08<Supercheese>It's a bit like starting floor numbering as Ground floor, then First floor above it, Second, etc.
02:08<Supercheese>vs. First floor at ground, Second above it, Third, etc
02:09<Supercheese>I wish everyone would do it the same way -- same with 7s
02:10<andythenorth>[shrug]
02:10<andythenorth>monoculture is boring
02:15<__ln__>i don't know if it's even cultural; the floor numbering seems to vary even within one country.
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02:32<andythenorth>gameplay opinions on this? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3800
02:32<andythenorth>see also my latest comment :P
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02:38<@peter1138>LordPixaII, fix yer conn :p
02:38<Rubidium>andythenorth: for the first many years it just accepts junk and then at some point it accepts engineering supplies too and provides some scrap metal/plastic/whatever
02:39<Rubidium>to model the extracting of useful supplies from the garbage
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02:42<andythenorth>ah
02:42<andythenorth>this is a producing industry
02:42<andythenorth>it just produces scrap metal
02:42<andythenorth>there is no junk input :)
02:42<andythenorth>I figure it 'harvests' its own junk
02:43<@peter1138>__ln__, that's a 78
02:45<__ln__>probably, but not certainly enough
02:46<@peter1138>is for me, the line across the top of the 7 is way too long to be a 1
02:51<@Terkhen>good morning
02:53<andythenorth>hola Terkhen
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04:01<andythenorth>is there a case in FIRS for having original TTD production change behaviour, but with closure disabled?
04:01<andythenorth>for primary industry
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04:02<Supercheese>An 'I hate supplies' parameter?
04:02<andythenorth>othogonal to supplies
04:03<andythenorth>supplies can work with original behaviour
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04:03<Supercheese>Hmm, I dunno; I'm sleepy; it's 1 AM here
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04:03<Supercheese>I should sleep. Valete omnes
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04:17<@Alberth>moin
04:18<andythenorth>lo Alberth
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04:18*andythenorth wonders if planetmaker is awake yet
04:19<@Alberth>awake probably, available here is a different matter :)
04:23*LordAro waves at Alberth
04:24*Alberth waves back from #freerct
04:27<LordAro>:P
04:27<LordAro>i did it for the benefit of everyone else :)
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05:19<andythenorth>poke Yexo
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05:37<@Alberth>quak
05:38<frosch123>moin
05:43*andythenorth could use a report on which permanent storage is in use for an industry
05:43<andythenorth>reading all code to figure out it is...not exciting :P
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't look particularly healthy: http://transphoto.ru/photo/545548/
05:44<andythenorth>FIRS does use identifiers instead of numbers, but I can't be sure if they're used comprehensively :P
05:45<frosch123>can't you grep for the assignment operator?
05:45<frosch123>and just check which use numbers
05:45<andythenorth>yup
05:45<andythenorth>that will do
05:50<andythenorth>solved
05:58*andythenorth needs a not-stupid variable name
05:58<andythenorth>for a modified version of production_rate_1 and production_rate_1
05:58<andythenorth>production_rate_2 *
05:59<andythenorth>hmm
05:59<andythenorth>better idea
06:00<andythenorth>irc really is like teddy bear coding :P
06:00<@Alberth>next_rate ?
06:00<@Alberth>this teddy bear sometimes talks back :p
06:00<andythenorth>:)
06:01<andythenorth>I shoud just get a bear
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06:14<andythenorth>prod_multiplier is an array of up to 2 ints
06:14<andythenorth>how do I get the first int
06:14<andythenorth>?
06:14<andythenorth>nml refuses prod_multiplier[0] and prod_multiplier(0)
06:14<andythenorth>and I can't find anything in docs
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06:19<andythenorth>reading nml src, not actually sure there is anything to read prod_multiplier
06:19<andythenorth>setting it is a custom function
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07:22<andythenorth>rm * .orig is not same as rm *.orig :P
07:23<^Spike^>let me guess... it had trouble finding the .orig file? :)
07:23<andythenorth>:P
07:23<andythenorth>now has trouble finding some other files too
07:24<^Spike^>;)
07:25<Ammler>just ignore such files
07:26<@Alberth>that works until you have more .rej and .orig files than source files :P
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07:49<andythenorth>FIRS secondary industries - industry window text states default production ratios
07:50<andythenorth>i.e. "2t cargo out per 8t coal delivered" etc
07:50<andythenorth>should they show _current_ production ratios?
07:51<@Alberth>would seem useful, wouldn't it?
07:51<andythenorth>not sure how to do it without spamming the window
07:51<andythenorth>I don't want a stats-smorgasboard :P
07:52<andythenorth>I think it's needed though
07:53<@Alberth>you could abstract away from actual values
07:54<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3359/industry_window.png
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>"Recently delivered: Coal, Steel; Current conversion ratio: 4/8"
07:54<andythenorth>^^ the first 4 lines of that window are utterly pointless
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>yes, they are. it's hardcoded they appear when the production callback is used
07:55<andythenorth>with the full power of hindsight, making the industry window text depend on production cb was done by someone smoking crack
07:55<andythenorth>at the time, I'm sure it was a nice new feature :)
07:55<@Alberth>or using ECS :)
07:56<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: yes, it's a legacy problem, but how to change it without breaking everything?
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07:58<frosch123>https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/Frosch/New_Results#CB_37:_Industry_window_acceptance.2Fcargo_text
07:58<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: plaster a new cb over the top, giving full control of industry window
07:58<andythenorth>i.e. newgrf has a blank canvas
07:59<frosch123>yay, NewCanvas support!
07:59<andythenorth>:P @ frosch123
07:59<frosch123>grfs should be able to draw stuff using Lines, instead of only sprites
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>or just add a "suppress stockpile display" flag?
07:59<andythenorth>or that
07:59<andythenorth>frosch123: charts... :P
07:59<andythenorth>seriously
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>NewGraphs
08:00<andythenorth>we have a winner
08:00<frosch123>andythenorth: minimap
08:00<frosch123>grfs should be able to draw lines on the minimap
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>to mix with the ones from cargod*st?
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08:07*Alberth adds GSes
08:08<@Alberth>stir heavily :)
08:08<andythenorth>¿ wrt FIRS, "Current cargo production" and then show current ratios?
08:08<andythenorth>and maybe change the last string to be more useful?
08:09<andythenorth>[screenshot gives context]
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>can NewGRFs do CargoLists as string parameters?
08:11<frosch123>that's already a hack for gs:p
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08:12<andythenorth>I could do some kind of colour coding, red / green etc for current production level
08:12<andythenorth>colour for information sucks though
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>that's totally stupid
08:13<@Alberth>low production levels are not dangerous :p
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08:16<andythenorth>indeed
08:17<andythenorth>can't think of any good solutions
08:17<andythenorth>there's no need for players to understand the mechanic in detail
08:18<andythenorth>deliver all cargos regularly, get higher production
08:18<andythenorth>is all
08:18<@Alberth>seems fine to me
08:19<@Alberth>just make a http://wiki.firs.org/GameMechanics page for people in need of detailed understanding :p
08:19<andythenorth>http://wiki.openttd.org/FIRS
08:20<frosch123>yup, who plays anyway
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08:20<andythenorth>not me :P
08:20<frosch123>players can just refer to the offline handbook
08:20<frosch123>or the source
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08:20<frosch123>online help is just a temporary phenomenon
08:21<frosch123>it will vanish with the touch screen era
08:21<andythenorth>I can touch my screen
08:21<frosch123>symbols are enough
08:21<andythenorth>just fingerprints though
08:21<@Alberth>symbols and some handwaving :)
08:21<andythenorth>I am running out of FIRS distractions. Everything left is either too hard, or involves doing actual work :P
08:22<@Alberth>update the wiki page? :D
08:22<andythenorth>'work'
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09:25<Rubidium>andythenorth: show FIRS to andy 2.0 and andy 2.1?
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09:26<Rubidium>or make a toyland version
09:27<Rubidium>[farm] -> <organic foods> -> [blender] -> <baby food> -> [baby] -> <soil nutrients> -> [farm]
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10:01<frosch123>make sure not to mix up the position of the blender in the chain
10:02<@Alberth>+1
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>as in "what's orange and turns red when you push the button?" :p
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10:03<andythenorth>orange babies?
10:03<andythenorth>what have you been feeding them?
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>carrots, maybe :)
10:03<andythenorth>"soil nutrients" are pre-blended in my experience btw
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>what do i know about babys anyway :p
10:04<andythenorth>about as much as I know about constructing a tree function?
10:04<frosch123>you should know it from the first person view
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10:04<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but i don't seem to be able to remember that :p
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10:16<andythenorth>right
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10:16<andythenorth>so FIRS needs a port industry (and / or warehouse)
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10:16<andythenorth>it's been suggested about 7 times, including by me
10:17<andythenorth>can't rely on just 'port', some maps don't have sufficient water
10:18<andythenorth>solution to that?
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>"international/container trading post"
10:18<andythenorth>customs post
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>my city also has a "port", even though no ships can reach it :)
10:18<andythenorth>Railroad Tycoon has 'warehouses'
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>at least no ships of a size that would make it worthwhile :)
10:18<andythenorth>'Import / Export Facility' ?
10:19<@Alberth>I'd make that separate from an industry set
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10:20<@Alberth>a big ware house of 8x8 tiles or so :)
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>oh, that reminds me of another (orthogonal) parameter: large/small industry layouts
10:21<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: make smallFIRS :p
10:22<@Alberth>or "steroidsFIRS" :)
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>armstrongfirs! :p
10:22<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I'm favouring small layouts where possible :P
10:22<@Alberth>sounds like a feasible economy
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10:30<andythenorth>bbl
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10:39<DanMacK>Hey all
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10:41<@Alberth>All hey
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11:33<DanMacK>o/
11:35<Kylie>soi tried to run trains between 3 small towns
11:36<Kylie>but sadly
11:36<Kylie>not enough profit
11:36<DanMacK>Buses are usually better to start
11:36<Kylie>good point, heh
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>"advanced": send busses from the outskirts of the town to the train station with "transfer and leave empty" orders, that way, it's easier to get the train full
11:39<Kylie>well, this is a maglev network
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>that has nothing to do with anything :)
11:39<Kylie>they are expensive
11:39<Kylie>they require expensive trsains. expensive trains = huge ridership
11:39<__ln__>*buses
11:40<__ln__>i wonder if "bi" would be an acceptable plural..
11:40<Kylie>soim just connecting to the station with buses and we will see if that works
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11:45<Kylie>lol wow
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11:45<Kylie>sounds like the north station requires a lot of buses
11:46<Kylie>streetcar upgrade time
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11:59<Kylie>uhm
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12:01*DanMacK has an issue setting up VM for Devzone... can anyone help?
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12:07<frosch123>what exactly is the problem?
12:08<DanMacK>Need to switch to 32 bit display in Virtualbox... I don't have the GUI screen
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12:09<DanMacK>just black
12:12<frosch123>hmm, i lack context :p what has that to do with devzone?
12:12<frosch123>anyway, virtualbox just runs for me, no idea why there should be some 32bit switch? what would be the other option?
12:12<frosch123>16bit?
12:13<DanMacK>24
12:13<DanMacK>I'm using Foobar's guide for setting up... :P
12:13<frosch123>well, if you run it in windowed mode, it should just do anything, shouldn't it?
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12:14<frosch123>can you give me a link? so i can actually see what you are trying to do :p
12:14<DanMacK>one sec, I may have solved it... took some digging
12:15<DanMacK>He suggests installing Fedora on a Virtual Machine
12:15<DanMacK>Although that may be for nml compiling as well
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12:16<DanMacK>reading on, looks like that's just for compiling grfs
12:16<DanMacK>Hey Andy
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12:18<andythenorth>so
12:18<@Alberth>nml runs on almost anything
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12:18<andythenorth>frosch123 industry layouts with custom terraforming...think it will ever happen?
12:18<frosch123>but you will need "make" and "cpp" for most stuff
12:18<@Alberth>evenink andy
12:18<andythenorth>DanMacK is drawing mines...
12:18<@Alberth>and python and pil :)
12:18<frosch123>andythenorth: i hope it will happen somewhen :p
12:19<@Alberth>andythenorth: I hope not the pointy black ball-like ones
12:20<andythenorth>the 'needs to go on a certain hillside' kind :)
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12:29<DanMacK>BBIAB
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12:32<andythenorth>was the idea to return tile corner heights?
12:33<andythenorth>[from the layout definition]
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12:33<frosch123>check the wiki
12:34<frosch123>and corner heights from layout is troublesome, since there are more corners than tiles
12:34*andythenorth reads
12:34<frosch123>so, either it is redundant, or misses stuff
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>you can define tile height as the north height, but you need additional "void" tiles at the southern corners (that's how it's done internally)
12:36<andythenorth>returning slope makes sense, as per wiki
12:36<andythenorth>https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/Frosch/New_Results#Slope_information_in_industry_layout
12:37<andythenorth>I prefer doing it in layout
12:37<andythenorth>to cb
12:37<andythenorth>I think
12:37<andythenorth>dunno if that's a good implementation though
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12:39<andythenorth>seems to me to be intrinsic to layout
12:39<andythenorth>whereas a cb requires first checking layout, then position, which creates a lot of varact 2
12:40<andythenorth>unwieldy
12:40<andythenorth>hmm
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>runtime-wise it's rather unimportant, since it's only a user-initiated action, so it's not very often
12:41<andythenorth>grf writing time, varact 2 is a lot of work
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>or it's a very rare repeated function
12:41<andythenorth>I could template that, others might not :P
12:41<frosch123>andythenorth: it all depends on the usecase :p
12:41<frosch123>a property can also be a lot of work
12:41<andythenorth>can we define the use case?
12:42<andythenorth>I thought the wiki had it covered tbh ;)
12:42<frosch123>imagine a number of new objects, which all have the same slope shape, but look differently
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: example: the industry consists of 3 2x2 houses, which in itself must be at the same (foundation-)height, but between them, the height difference is irrelevant
12:42<frosch123>for the property you need a preprocessor or copy and paste
12:43<frosch123>for the cb, you can do it with grf methods
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>a property might not be flexible enough
12:43<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: that does not matter
12:44<frosch123>in any case ottd would take the industry location, then resolve the info for all tiles, and then check with own magic
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12:44<frosch123>so, the only thing that cbs have more is checking "location", and date and such stuff
12:44<frosch123>and possibly other future variables similar to "layout" or whatever
12:45<frosch123>properties otoh are always quite fixed, and cannot be extended
12:45<frosch123>so, imo the question is, what variables are actually needed, and is that selection likely to change
12:45<andythenorth>how are tilegroups assigned / defined?
12:45<frosch123>ofc we can always reserve some flag in the property, which means: call cb for this tile :p
12:46<frosch123>andythenorth: some byte?
12:46<frosch123>0 = "none"
12:46<frosch123>it does not exactly matter, does it?
12:47<andythenorth>wondering if it was a property, or some new construct
12:47<andythenorth>doesn't matter
12:47<frosch123>if it is a property, then the whole layout stuff is in one property
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12:48<DanMacK>Hey all
12:48<frosch123>likely replacing the old layout property, instead of adding to it
12:48<frosch123>however, it also remains open whether to tie the construction-check with the autoslope-check and the foundation-drawing thingie
12:48*DanMacK thinks he missed something interesting
12:48<@Alberth>@logs
12:48<@DorpsGek>Alberth: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
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12:50<@Alberth>would it make sense to consider a property for most 'normal' cases, and have a cb for special cases?
12:50<frosch123>yeah, except the "normal" is so difficult :p
12:51<@Alberth>you could hide some magic in nml perhaps
12:52<@Alberth>but that needs a more readable form of specifying
12:53<frosch123>well, you could say we do everything via callback, and nml allows to specify callback results via a layout-like matrix :p
12:54<frosch123>let's see, i do not even know the nml syntax for layouts
12:54<frosch123>hmm, looks like a switch
12:55<frosch123>andythenorth: why do you consider a cb more work than a layout?
12:55<frosch123>the nml syntax looks the same for both, doesn't it?
12:56<frosch123>it's "position": "value"
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13:00<@Alberth>a 2D representation would be better :p
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13:00<@Alberth>but that is just a change in syntax
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13:04<frosch123>anyway, imo cb/property is not that important; the questions of what needs to be part of it sounds more pressing :)
13:05<DanMacK>That would definitely make industry layouts more interesting
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13:05<frosch123>i.e. how to combine or separate the construction check with/from autoslope and foundation drawing
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13:10<DanMacK>Was it something we said?
13:11<DanMacK>So or just committing to devzone tortoisehg/mercurial should be sufficient?
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13:14<@Alberth>the current setup needs a precise match; enabling autoslope would already a step forward, and enabling terraforming to make things fit would be heaven?
13:15<@Alberth>in the latter case you could aim for minimal terraforming and do the remaining parts with autoslope
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13:18<@Alberth>imho just enabling autoslope would be enough for now
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13:18<DanMacK>Bbl
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13:22<frosch123>Alberth: what do you mean exactly?
13:23<frosch123>hmm, i think we fail at the term "autoslope"
13:23<frosch123>with that i mean terraforming industry tiles by the player after construction
13:23<frosch123>(possibly adding foundations)
13:24<@Alberth>ah, ok, autoslope is for me adding a foundation, like when building a depot at a non-flat tile
13:25<frosch123>yeah, autoslope is a weird term from ttdp
13:25<@Alberth>but it is very defendable to always do terraforming to make an industry fit the terrain
13:25<frosch123>no idea what the actual idea was behind that idea
13:26<frosch123>*that term
13:26<@Alberth>it adjusts slopes automagically :)
13:27<frosch123>http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/AutoSlope <- i always thought it was a bad term :p but it also was the only term :p
13:28<@Alberth>haha, something entirely different! :D
13:28<@Alberth>you call my form of autoslope 'adding a foundation' ?
13:28<frosch123>i call it "drawing a foundation" :p
13:28<@Alberth>sounds much better :)
13:29<@Alberth>yeah it does not get really added
13:29<frosch123>foundations do not really exist, they are only an imagination of the renderer :p
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13:34<@Alberth>to recap: drawing foundations would help a lot already I think, the ultimate would be to terraform to match the layout, where you can choose between doing terraform all the way, or do minimal terraform (and maximal foundation drawing)
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13:35<@Alberth>tbh I slightly favour full terraforming, I don't trust the imaginary foundations to be strong enough for the heavy industry :p
13:35<@Alberth>on the other hand, we also do foundation drawing under an airport, so my argument does not really hold
13:36<frosch123>well, we already draw foundations/terraform for flat industries
13:36<@Alberth>we do? cool
13:36<frosch123>hmm, i said that ambivalent
13:37<frosch123>we terraform for industries which need flat land
13:37<frosch123>and we draw flat foundations for tiles which want one
13:37<frosch123>those two options are independent
13:38<frosch123>but there is nothing for sloped industries or sloped foundations
13:38<frosch123>and autpslope is currently only "yes" or "no"
13:38<frosch123>esp. with sloped industries there is basically only the "no" option
13:40<@Alberth>afaik specifying a sloped layout in NFO is a nightmare, so now with NML is the first time it becomes feasible.
13:40<@Alberth>thus the need for autosloping sloped industries has never been very high
13:41<frosch123>well, there are different things which might add up in nml
13:41<frosch123>one issue is checking the slope, which is the same in nml and nfo wrt. "complicatedness"
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13:42<frosch123>the other issue is to draw an industry on any slope, which needs adv. spritelayouts. this is relatively new and can be used in nml by great advantage
13:42<frosch123>but it is so new, that i do not know any nfo grf which uses it
13:42<frosch123>everything since then has used nml
13:42<frosch123>(though i am not up-to-date with ecs developement)
13:44<frosch123>[19:35] <Alberth> tbh I slightly favour full terraforming, I don't trust the imaginary foundations to be strong enough for the heavy industry :p <- btw. all default industries stand on foundations :p
13:44<frosch123>even the mines
13:44<frosch123>(when using autoslope)
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13:45<@Alberth>does ttdp support the advanced spritelayouts? if not, that could be a reason to refrain from using it
13:45<frosch123>ofc it does not
13:45<frosch123>but ecs dropped ttdp support 4 years ago
13:45<frosch123>adv. spritelayout should be newer than the latest ttdp commit
13:46*Alberth never digs near industries :p
13:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24677 /trunk/src/lang (7 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-10 18:46:41 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>danish - 13 changes by Knogle
13:46<@DorpsGek>korean - 3 changes by telk5093
13:46<@DorpsGek>latvian - 8 changes by Parastais
13:46<@DorpsGek>polish - 5 changes by wojteks86
13:47<@DorpsGek>russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:47<@DorpsGek>spanish - 2 changes by Terkhen
13:47<@DorpsGek>tamil - 4 changes by aswn
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13:48<andythenorth>frosch123: cb is more work because first a switch is needed for checking which layout num, then a switch per layout to find tile position
13:49<andythenorth>which is already the case in the graphics chain
13:49<andythenorth>so changing one item might mean changing in 3 places
13:50<andythenorth>I can template all of that, so I don't care
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13:51<Eddi|zuHause>so maybe layouts should become a feature, then they can have callbacks of their own?
13:52<andythenorth>layouts are kind of odd right now
13:52<andythenorth>they specify tiles, but of course it's nearly always the same tile :)
13:53<andythenorth>most of the time that's quite redundant information :)
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14:04<@peter1138>pixa :S
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15:31<__ln__>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/10/world/europe/norway-killer-breivik-complains-about-prison.html
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15:34<Eddi|zuHause>comment to that was "he probably didn't talk to bradley manning"
15:37<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24678 /trunk/src (15 files) (2012-11-10 20:37:31 UTC)
15:37<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Introduce scope resolver base class and prepare for adding derived classes.
15:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24679 /trunk/src (4 files) (2012-11-10 20:38:46 UTC)
15:38<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add resolver classes for towns.
15:39<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24680 /trunk/src (newgrf_canal.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.h) (2012-11-10 20:39:11 UTC)
15:39<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add resolver classes for canals.
15:39<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24681 /trunk/src (newgrf_cargo.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.h) (2012-11-10 20:39:39 UTC)
15:39<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add resolver classes for cargoes.
15:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24682 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-10 20:40:05 UTC)
15:40<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add resolver classes for houses.
15:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24683 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-10 20:40:46 UTC)
15:40<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add resolver classes for objects.
15:41<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24684 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-10 20:41:08 UTC)
15:41<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add resolver classes for stations.
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>is that one of those things that break all patches?
15:41<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24685 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-10 20:41:45 UTC)
15:41<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add resolver classes for rail types.
15:42<__ln__>why isn't 'hice' the plural of 'house'?
15:42<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24686 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-10 20:42:19 UTC)
15:42<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add resolver classes for airport tiles.
15:42<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24687 /trunk/src (newgrf_airport.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.h) (2012-11-10 20:42:50 UTC)
15:42<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add resolver classes for airports.
15:43<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24688 /trunk/src (newgrf_generic.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.h) (2012-11-10 20:43:40 UTC)
15:43<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add resolver classes for generics.
15:44<__ln__>is this an attempt to get more cake sooner?
15:44<frosch123>212
15:44<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24689 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-10 20:44:10 UTC)
15:44<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add resolver classes for industries.
15:44<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24690 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-10 20:44:38 UTC)
15:44<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add resolver classes for industry tiles.
15:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24691 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-10 20:45:04 UTC)
15:45<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Add resolver classes for vehicles.
15:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24692 /trunk/src (23 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-10 20:45:59 UTC)
15:46<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: Cleanup final parts of the old resolver code.
15:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by alberth :: r24693 /trunk/src (24 files) (2012-11-10 20:46:39 UTC)
15:46<@DorpsGek>-Doc: Add some doxymentation into the newgrf code.
15:46<frosch123>207 :)
15:48*Alberth tries to remember what he wanted to change in the code :p
15:48<frosch123>industry amounts or something like that
15:49<MNIM>heya guys, I could have sworn this was in the wiki, but I can't find it any more. Where can I find what corners get you what speeds?
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15:49<@Alberth>something in that direction indeed :)
15:50<frosch123>https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/Curve#Recommended_distances_between_corners
15:50<@Alberth>MNIM: http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Trains ?
15:50<frosch123>yeah that table looks better
15:50<frosch123>i wonder what nonsense the other table displays :o
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15:56<Supercheese>Ack, 13 new entries in commit RSS
15:56<frosch123>only 13?
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15:56<Supercheese>refreshing
15:57<Supercheese>yeah, only 13
15:57<Supercheese>still, rather much for a ~10 minute burst
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15:58<MNIM>thanks! it's a bit hard to find. Wouldn't a link to it from the junctions or train building page be a good idea?
16:00<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: it hasn't broken any of my patches ;)
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16:56<MNIM>Whoops. I was working on improving the throughput of a heavily used line and instead of improving it I crashed two trains in a place where I can't easily make a detour.
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16:59<MNIM>http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/Sendtown%20Transport%2C%2011th%20May%201959.png
16:59<MNIM>oh wait, I can make a detour. got that access lane there.
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17:02<Eddi|zuHause>why does the electrification end in the middle of nowhere?
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17:12<MNIM>Eddi: work in progress.
17:14<MNIM>well. long term progress, really. Focussing on throughput, economy and connecting smaller towns first before electrifying the whole line.
17:15<MNIM>Currently only one shorter sideline is completely electrified.
17:16<MNIM>the mainline that runs from north to south via the eastern corner of the 1024^2 map is mostly non-electrified
17:17<MNIM>the part of the screenshot is the busiest part, on the east-south leg between some large industries.
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17:19<@Alberth>haha, the ECS coal mine runs out of coal and then a month later finds new coal, twice already :)
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17:23<frosch123>Alberth: it's just a normal procedure to get rid of some employees
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17:25<MNIM>Oh jay, net splats.
17:26<frosch123>also a method to get rid of people
17:26<MNIM>SYLOOOOQ!
17:26<MNIM>oh wait. wrong network.
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17:28<@Alberth>good night
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17:37<@Terkhen>good night
17:37<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r24694 trunk/src/roadveh_gui.cpp (2012-11-10 22:37:14 UTC)
17:37<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r18136): Road vehicle selection frame wasn't drawn properly in the depot window.
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18:37<frosch123>night
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20:15<Kylie|2>so uh
20:16<Kylie|2>im having th2s network issue which can be seen at http://imgur.com/Qmxf4
20:17<Kylie|2>train #27 cannot move
20:18<Kylie|2>#27 is going to the station after the bridge at the lower right corner of the pic
20:18<Kylie|2>turned around to go there
20:18<Eddi|zuHause>hit the ignore signal button and stop it before it hits the other train
20:19<MNIM>Your station misses exit signals.
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>and then forbid 90° turns and/or make the distance between junctions longer
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>if it's a dead end station it doesn't matter
20:20<Kylie|2>its a dead end station yes
20:21<Kylie|2>and what do you mean by distance between junctions?
20:21<MNIM>how so?
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>Kylie|2: well your train is longer than the distance from the top junction to the left junction, that is why your trains are stuck
20:22<Kylie|2>ah
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20:23<Eddi|zuHause>if it was one tile longer, it would fit exactly, and this lockup can't happen
20:23<Kylie|2>i just checked, and you're right
20:24<Eddi|zuHause>and the tunnel is unnecessary, but that is besides the point...
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20:32<Kylie|2>yup, Eddi|zuHause, i removed it already :)
20:34<Eddi|zuHause>alternatively, make the tunnel one tile longer, and move the upwards track over the tunnel
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21:42<drac_boy>hi
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21:54<Nat_as>I finaly found an OS that makes my netbook usefull
21:55<drac_boy>considering its only a cpu and wifi .. any os would had done anyway :P
21:55<drac_boy>heh
21:55<Nat_as>Linix mint is amazing, it's like Ubuntu before canonical decided the future was mobile devices
21:55<Nat_as>no
21:55<Nat_as>it started with win7
21:55<Nat_as>but that ran really slow on the mobile cpu
21:55<Nat_as>and then I tried ubuntu
21:55<Nat_as>but that didn't support the drivers for the touchscreen
21:55<Nat_as>I also tried Jolicloud
21:55<Nat_as>same story
21:56<Nat_as>Linix Mint was the first one that worked out of the box
21:56*drac_boy only uses slackware or sourcemage alone for anything tho
21:56<drac_boy>^_^
21:57<Nat_as>I'm really pissed that Microsoft and Canonical are doing the same thing right now though
21:57<Nat_as>ie, forcing a mobile optomised UI down everyone's throats
21:58<Nat_as>because somebody told them the future was mobile devices
22:01<drac_boy>Nat_as the usual problem is .. mobile != work in some cases
22:01<drac_boy>try do your spreadsheet daily on a small touchscreen alone .. I'll imagine its not so good
22:01<Nat_as>yes, among other things
22:02<Nat_as>but there is a whole generation of execs who see that PC sales are slowing down, while smartphone and tablet sales are increasing
22:02<Nat_as>and mistakenly assume that mobile devices will replace the PC
22:02<Nat_as>but that's bullshit
22:02<drac_boy>"slowing down" != wiping out
22:02<drac_boy>heh heh
22:02<drac_boy>looks like two of us could keep talking about this forever :P
22:02<drac_boy>sadly...I'm going to bed soon ;)
22:02<Nat_as>because PCs are reaching market saturation, everyone who wants one, already has one
22:03<Nat_as>while mobile devices are new, and thus have room for market growth
22:03<Nat_as>they aren't the same thing damnit
22:08<drac_boy>just wondering anyway, do you have a dream laptop you would had liked?
22:08<Nat_as>I have the laptop I wanted to buy for my Priamary, and my secondary, which I am typing on right now, is finaly the laptop I wanted it to be after two years of being useless
22:09<drac_boy>heh
22:09<Nat_as>there is a new dream laptop i have in mind, but it dosn't really exist
22:09<Nat_as>it's like the macbook air, except not crapple
22:09<Nat_as>:p
22:09<drac_boy>well for me there is a specific cpu/gpu/screen I want plus a few minor details .... still waiting :)
22:09<drac_boy>you want hear it? heh
22:10<Nat_as>Ultrabooks aren't really ready yet imo, at least not in my price range
22:10<Nat_as>and sure
22:12<drac_boy>intel i5 3427U .... Geforce GT 625M (or if thats still too new for you to design then 620M it is) ... any 1440x900 14-15" matte display ... ricoh chipset for ilink+cardbus .. no preference on wiif chip .. a centered touchpad (and I don't care whatever you say...it used to be done countless times before jeeze)
22:13<drac_boy>:p
22:13<drac_boy>and yeah thats an ivy bridge cpu
22:13<Nat_as>centered touchpand and numpad?
22:13<Nat_as>because having a numbpad usualy means the touchpad is offset
22:14*drac_boy points to Fn+numpad
22:14<Nat_as>because hardware makers hate you apparently
22:14<Nat_as>oh
22:14<Nat_as>i like numpads
22:14<Nat_as>they are good with widescreen
22:14<Nat_as>but probably bad for portability
22:14<drac_boy>well numpads don't really have a place without having to use a mouse in first place due to disabling the touchpad .. its a moot point ... better to leave it off
22:15<drac_boy>but either way .. yeah ... not asking for a lot in my dream laptop pretty much :)
22:17<Nat_as>is windows 8 really as bad as they say?
22:17<Nat_as>can you like, get a classic interface back?
22:17<drac_boy>no idea...haven't seen it in stores to try a single copy yet ... still wondering if it'l really be $140 as they quoted
22:19<drac_boy>anyway going to bed now, see you another time ok? :)
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23:28<Kylie|2>hmm
23:28<Kylie|2>i had a question
23:28<Kylie|2>is there a way
23:28<Kylie|2>apart from create stn area
23:28<Kylie|2>to see the uh
23:28<Kylie|2>boundaries of the stn
23:28<Kylie|2>where cargo is collected from
23:29<Kylie|2>i dont want to have to use that area over and over again
23:31<Kylie|2>er
23:31<Kylie|2>so im asking
23:31<Kylie|2>how dfo i view a station's catchment area
23:34<Kylie|2>?
23:34<Kylie|2>anyone here
---Logclosed Sun Nov 11 00:00:19 2012