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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-11-11

---Logopened Sun Nov 11 00:00:19 2012
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00:13<Flygon>Kylie|2: I just do it by getting the station prompt up, and holding the "new" station over the pre-existing station, but not actually buildingn
00:14<Kylie|2>Flygon: i was wondering re different way
00:14<Flygon>Ah
00:14<Flygon>I agree it'd be nice
00:20<Flygon>Hmm
00:20<Flygon>I really begin to think I did something wrong with this heightmap
00:21<Flygon>Sure, it's on the right angle, but I think I somehow buggered the aspect ratio...
00:25<Flygon>Either way, it's a monstorously boring heighmap... Victoria is too flat
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01:28<Rubidium>Flygon: if the heightmap goes from 0 to max in a few pixels, the hills and valleys get smoothed out significantly. Especially with real mountainous areas that are zoomed out far
01:39<Flygon>Ribidium: I actually mean the... landscape
01:39<Flygon>Uuh
01:39<Flygon>Hard to explain
01:39<Flygon>Get the Victoria map off Banana's
01:39<Flygon>I submitted it over a month ago
01:39<Flygon>I've actually improved my heightmap technique since...
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02:24<andythenorth>bonjour
02:26<Rubidium>bonjour monsieur andy
02:29<@peter1138>ah oui oui
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03:32<@Alberth>moin
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03:42<Wolf01>hello
03:44<@Alberth>o/ Wolf01
03:51<@peter1138>waaa, still no pi :-(
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06:22<LordAro>hai all
06:24<@Alberth>that's only a few people :)
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>the joke goes "hai!" - "wo?"
06:25<Flygon>Hai
06:25*LordAro points at Alberth for the origins of me using it :L
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06:29*Alberth fails to understand the disucssion completely
06:30<LordAro>^
06:30<LordAro>:P
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07:26<andythenorth>lo
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07:42<Flygon>lo
07:51<andythenorth>ho ho, this ticket blocks a FIRS release http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4232
07:51<andythenorth>current behaviour wrt 2 parameters is legacy
07:51<andythenorth>and broken
07:51*andythenorth lacks inspiration for best solution though :)
07:55<Rubidium>andythenorth: those who are against closing industries are also against (un)expected production changes as it messes up their network. So better just make primary industries that are not allowed to close produce at max capacity
07:55<andythenorth>10,000t output everywhere? o_O
07:56<andythenorth>or are you being serious and saying 'no decreases'? :)
07:56<Rubidium>I'm somewhat serious ;)
07:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24695 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-11 12:57:27 UTC)
07:57<@DorpsGek>-Fix/Cleanup: Remove remaining (incorrect) usages of ResolverObject::scope and count.
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'd say make it "no decrease"
07:59<frosch123>i guess only two levels: either supplies or no supplies :p
08:02<andythenorth>I am thinking bool: 'default behaviour' or 'FIRS behaviour'
08:03<frosch123>excellent descriptions :p
08:03<andythenorth>no option for 'decrease but not closure'
08:05<andythenorth>frosch123: can you improve those descriptions? :D
08:05<frosch123>sorry, did not follow the conversation
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: two parameters: "primary industries can close", "secondary industries can close"
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>primary: off: "primary industries never decrease production, but only increase when supplies are delivered regularly"; on: "primary industries may decrease production or close, but chances are lower when supplies are delivered regularly"
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>secondary: off: "secondary industries never close", on: "secondary industries can close if they are not serviced for some time"
08:11<frosch123>i thought supplies only boost the production for a short time
08:12<frosch123>not permanently
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>no, that was ECS :)
08:12<frosch123>or was that already reverted agan?
08:12<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: the last game i played with firs (it was a M version) iirc did that
08:12<andythenorth>supples only boost production for a short time
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>ok... sounds bad
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>whatever
08:13<andythenorth>it's better than previous mechanic, but still has issues
08:14<frosch123>anyway, i recommend to not implement anything that triggers 5 years after construction/game start
08:14<andythenorth>:P
08:14<andythenorth>you think that has issues?
08:15<frosch123>but rather something which triggers on average every 10 or 50 years, no matter how old the thing is
08:15<andythenorth>I am not going to implement any closure for primaries
08:15<andythenorth>just use default behaviour
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>one idea was: the industry checks whether the associated town has at least one company rating
08:15<Eddi|zuHause>then the countdown will be triggered
08:15<andythenorth>maybe I should remove the FIRS code for secondary closure too....
08:15<frosch123>andythenorth: i read too many disussions like "all industries close at once" -> "ok, i increase the limit to at least 10 years" -> "oh, why do they all close at once after 10 years" :p
08:16<andythenorth>I spent too many weekends writing code to try and solve that :P
08:16<andythenorth>the code writing is short; running the tests is not :P
08:16<frosch123>anyway, i still like this idea for primaries: only two production levels depending on supplies. closure on average after 50 years, independent of serviceing
08:16<Eddi|zuHause>the industry has the town as associated object, right? so you only need a variable that can read the town's company ratings
08:17<andythenorth>closure after 50 years will cause much howling and wailing
08:17<andythenorth>it will ruin all the self-regulating, super-maglev networks
08:17<frosch123>well, then make a option "closure after 50 years"/"never closure"
08:17*andythenorth considers no parameters for this at all
08:17<andythenorth>how about FIRS just uses default mechanic from OTTD?
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>that would be silly
08:18<frosch123>also not "after 50 years", but "in average every 50 years"
08:18<frosch123>andythenorth: that is always a good option :)
08:18<frosch123>blames other people :p
08:18<andythenorth>implement NoConomy
08:18<andythenorth>or wait for Zuu to figure out giving GS control over this
08:18<andythenorth>newgrf sucks at solving this :)
08:21<andythenorth>Primary Industry Production Changes: Allow all changes | Change only with supplies
08:22<andythenorth>or just a bool: Allow Primary Production Changes
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08:22<Eddi|zuHause>town var 9E+(0..15) should be the company ratings
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>or town war AE is a bitmask
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>that should be the correct value
08:27<Eddi|zuHause> case 0xAE: return t->have_ratings;
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>seems to be implemented :)
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>so, on industry construction, initialize a counter with a random value (average at 5*12=60), on monthly callback, check whether town var AE has non-zero value, if yes, decrease the counter
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>if counter is zero, check some "is serviced" value, and close the industry if not
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: does that sound plausible?
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08:47<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: so if someone is servicing anything in the town, industry is preserved?
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>no, the opposite
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>if no player is serving the town, nothing happens
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>which prevents vast areas of the map to be cleaned out before the player can get to them
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>when a player enters the area, he has 3-7 years to connect all industries in that area
08:49<andythenorth>ah
08:49<andythenorth>that could be quite neat
08:52<MNIM>Hmmmh, speaking of industries and servicing.
08:53<MNIM>if you've got one station that services two industries which both require the same thing, how does it deliver?
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08:53<Eddi|zuHause>MNIM: the one closest to the station sign gets all
08:53<MNIM>ah.
08:54<@Terkhen>hello
08:54<andythenorth>lo Terkhen
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09:06<andythenorth>hmm
09:06<andythenorth>which production change cbs do I have to handle to get 'default' behaviour?
09:06<andythenorth>random only?
09:06<andythenorth>or random and monthly?
09:07<frosch123>for default behaviour you shouldn't handle any :p
09:07<andythenorth>I have to:(
09:07<frosch123>well, only random then
09:07<andythenorth>good :)
09:07<frosch123>but that will disable "smooth economy"
09:08<frosch123>so it is not really "default"
09:08<andythenorth>oh
09:08<andythenorth>poop
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>don't worry about "default" at all, just make one version with closure and one without
09:08<frosch123>andythenorth: why do you have to?
09:08<andythenorth>really?
09:08<andythenorth>frosch123: because I need to be able to disable 'default'
09:08<andythenorth>I'm wondering if this is all bogus tbh
09:09<frosch123>well, then put an "if" around the callback at top leel
09:09<frosch123>maybe nml is clever enough to not enable the callback then
09:09<andythenorth>maybe I can skip a graphics block
09:09<andythenorth>I'm adding this for a mythical use case that no-one has asked for iirc
09:09<andythenorth>maybe I just delete it :P
09:10<andythenorth>actually that seems best
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09:14<andythenorth>problem solved :)
09:14<andythenorth>no closure
09:14<andythenorth>dunno what that does for GS compatibility o_O
09:19<MNIM>Urgh. why does the caps lock key exist?
09:20<MNIM>most useless key ever.
09:20<Rubidium>MNIM: well... I use it to write your nick
09:20<MNIM>They should just split up all that useless space between the tab key and lshift.
09:21<MNIM>rubidium: mn+tab
09:21<MNIM>Or, if your client doesn't do that, you've got two hands, so your left pinky can be used for the shift like it should be doing already for capitalization anyway.
09:22<MNIM>...well, Im assuming you have two hands.
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>you're also assuming that he does capitalisation :p
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09:23<frosch123>MNIM: capslock is excellent for mapping to compose
09:23<andythenorth>hmm
09:23<Rubidium>MNIM: my phone doesn't have a tab
09:23<andythenorth>we've discussed GS and newgrf industry
09:24<andythenorth>GS should just be able to over-ride industry production and closure imo
09:24<MNIM>Eddi: no, I said 'should' :P I'm a sinner against capitalization too, for that matter
09:24*MNIM adds a . after 'should'
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09:26<drac_boy>hi
09:27<drac_boy>hmm no nat_as .. oh well :p
09:28<andythenorth>2 fewer parameters in FIRS :)
09:28*andythenorth likes fewer parameters
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09:30<rknol>hello
09:31<rknol>anyone here have any experience compiling openttd on freebsd9?
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09:31<rknol>been having a go at it but got stuck at where it can't use liblzma.a (even though it's present on my system)
09:32<Rubidium>is pkgconfig installed?
09:32<rknol>yes
09:33<Rubidium>what does pkg-config liblzma --modversion result in?
09:33<rknol>[root@freebsd0 /usr/local/lib]# pkg-config liblzma --modversion
09:33<rknol>Package liblzma was not found in the pkg-config search path.
09:33<rknol>Perhaps you should add the directory containing `liblzma.pc'
09:33<rknol>to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
09:33<rknol>No package 'liblzma' found
09:34<rknol>PKG_CONFIG_PATH is empty
09:34<andythenorth>deprecating a string in multiple languages is very tedious
09:34<Rubidium>solve that issue and OpenTTD's configure will find it
09:34<andythenorth>open file, delete strings, save, close, repeat :P
09:34<MNIM>http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=V_Qo4a_3IeQ
09:34<MNIM>oh dear
09:34<+glx>use a script
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: sed -i?
09:34<andythenorth>probably
09:35<andythenorth>I need to learn sed
09:35<+glx>and don't forget unfinished
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>sed -i /STR_NAME.*$// *.lng
09:35<andythenorth>let's see
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>or something
09:35<frosch123>that results in empty lines
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>yes
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>but whatever :)
09:36<frosch123>sed -i "/STR_NAME/ D" *.lng
09:36<andythenorth>eddi's fails on *.lng
09:36<andythenorth>;)
09:36<andythenorth>invalid command code
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>oh
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>yes add "s"
09:36<frosch123>andythenorth: eddis code was malicious btw :p
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>probably :)
09:36<andythenorth>I always paste and run untrusted code :)
09:36<andythenorth>it's more fun
09:37<andythenorth>especially with a lot of uncommitted changes on hand
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not an expert in sed either :)
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09:38<frosch123>everyone who loves turing machines should love sed
09:38<tycoondemon>turing machines are awesome
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09:38<frosch123>everyone else should love awk
09:38*andythenorth probably loves awk
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>that is a totally different question :)
09:39<andythenorth>sometimes I love writing a python script to do it :P
09:39<rknol>Rubidium: got it!
09:39<rknol>had to use the liblzma.pc from /usr/ports/games/openttd/files
09:40<rknol>now ran into another problem
09:40<rknol>[SRC] Compiling crashlog.cpp
09:40<frosch123>andythenorth: yeah, "i don't know the best language for this task, so i use the one that i know" is quite popular :p
09:40<rknol>ouch
09:40<andythenorth>learning is hard
09:40<rknol> /root/ottd/openttd-1.2.3/src/crashlog.cpp:191:23: error: lzo/lzo1x.h: No such file or directory
09:40<frosch123>though the older guys usually use perl
09:40<andythenorth>learning is counter to getting things done :P
09:41<andythenorth>although there is a certain bootstrap step that is essential :P
09:41<frosch123>it's like "age > 40 ? use perl : use python"
09:41<frosch123>no idea why, just an observation
09:41<andythenorth>('python', 'perl')[self.age > 40]
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09:42<Rubidium>rknol: interesting... it should've found that file during configure
09:43<andythenorth>is age a property, or a method call?
09:43<Rubidium>though you likely won't notice it when you compile without lzo (./configure --without-lzo2)
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>i've had this weird bug in pascal ages ago, where i used a ord(boolean) value as array index, and it always returned 0 or 1, except for the very last loop, where it sometimes returned 10
09:44<rknol>ok
09:44<Rubidium>rknol: having said that, doesn't the one from their 'ports' (or whatever it's called exactly) sit work?
09:44<rknol>configured it to not use lzo2
09:44<rknol>well, i don't dare to attempt to upgrade my ports tree
09:44<rknol>so it's 1.13
09:44<andythenorth>right, let's see who yells that I've removed some FIRS parameters :)
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: usually a cached result of date() - self.birthday
09:44<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: what if it's a duck?
09:44<andythenorth>are duck years different?
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09:45<andythenorth>making it a method allows for expressing it in different units :P
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>is that like dog years? :)
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09:45<andythenorth>do dogs quack?
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>rarely
09:45<andythenorth>if they do, you could probably treat them like a duck
09:45<andythenorth>hmm
09:45<andythenorth>afaik, there's nothing blocking a FIRS release now
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>with un-done economies?
09:46<andythenorth>oh yes
09:46<andythenorth>that :(
09:46<andythenorth>well that's just configuration :)
09:46<andythenorth>anyone could do that... o_O
09:46<drac_boy>heh heh
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09:47<Eddi|zuHause>well, then remove the economy parameter, make a release with only the FIRS economy, and then start doing economies
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09:47<andythenorth>point
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09:48<andythenorth>DanMacK suggested these... http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3362/PossibleBasicSchemes.png
09:49<Rubidium>andythenorth: the most important one... toyland... is missing
09:49<frosch123>lol, livestocks are delivered to a packaging plant?
09:49<frosch123>are they packaged as a whole?
09:50<drac_boy>andythenorth why no non-food chains for steel btw?
09:50<andythenorth>packing plant = slaughterhouse in US ;)
09:51<andythenorth>drac_boy: what are you talking about?
09:51<andythenorth>Rubidium: add Toyland :)
09:51<drac_boy>I can't see where to send the steel output to when theres no line heading directly or indirectly to town?
09:51<Rubidium>andythenorth: I already told you how that should look ;)
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09:52<Rubidium>with the blender and stuff ;)
09:52<andythenorth>lol
09:52<andythenorth>drac_boy: propose your own, I'm not designing economies right now, I have zero interest in them
09:53<andythenorth>I just want to implement some basic ones and get that off my plate
09:53<drac_boy>just reuse what the original and grf industries have always done... metal becomes goods :)
09:53<drac_boy>but otherwise..the other chains and other climates actually look decent so far
09:53<andythenorth>"FIRS - made lovingly by andythenorth, and not in a grumpy way, with every detail crafted" :P
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09:54<drac_boy>at least you took a page from grf industries and made the refinery output another liquid rather than just goods
09:54<drac_boy>that was the only thing I didn't like about the original refinery after all
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: agricultur economy: "crop rotation": farm output is randomized every year :)
09:55<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: interesting :)
09:55<andythenorth>drac_boy: I think Dan has missed that Metal Workshop produces goods
09:55<drac_boy>ahh .. in that case...forget I asked then ... thats good enough for me
09:56<andythenorth>in fact there a few missing links, but tbh drawing cargo chains is hard and mistakes are easy
09:56<drac_boy>ore > steel > mfg > goods > town ... sounds good to me
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: keep metal workshop only making mfg-supplies, but add car factory that takes metal and produces goods?
09:56<drac_boy>yeah .. I've noticed errors with the ECS vector charts too sometimes
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09:57<drac_boy>Eddi|zuHause problem is....not everyone want cars? :P heh heh
09:57<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I do have a planned chain with car plant + auto parts
09:57<andythenorth>rubber plantation, tire factory
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>danmack's version seems very simplified
09:57<andythenorth>it's 'basic'
09:57<drac_boy>andythenorth rubber plantation? thats taking the page right out of RT2 if you didn't know :p
09:57<andythenorth>'basic' I have no interest in, but seems desired
09:57<andythenorth>I am more interested in 'not basic'
09:57<andythenorth>:)
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09:57<andythenorth>drac_boy: it's stolen from RT
09:58<drac_boy>for anyone here who doesn't know .. RT2 basically had this chain....
09:58<drac_boy>rubber >> tire factory >> tire cargo .... ore or coal >> steel mill >> steel cargo .... tires + steel >> auto plant >> goods
09:59<drac_boy>andythenorth I should had suspected as much ;)
09:59<andythenorth>rubber -> tire factory -> auto parts
09:59<andythenorth>metal + chemicals -> metal fab plant -> auto parts
09:59<andythenorth>auto parts -> car plant
09:59<drac_boy>at least I liked how RT2's "bonus cargo" system actually worked...eg you could drop off some once in a while but if you kept trying to mass feed it it'll give you very crappy profit for a long time
10:00<drac_boy>too bad neither patch nor ottd can really emulate this behaviour just yet
10:00<andythenorth>they could
10:00<andythenorth>custom profit cb
10:00<andythenorth>and town storage
10:00<drac_boy>oh ok
10:00<andythenorth>just drop the price if too much is delivered
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>i'm more thinking like "tires", "chassis parts", "engine parts" == assembly plant ==> "cars"
10:00<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: dropping some other cargos would permit that
10:00<andythenorth>I'm open to it
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes, drop 80% of the agriculture cargos
10:01<drac_boy>andythenorth yeah .. I'm the kind that always like to do small delieveries .. so it would be nice to have a MP game that "scolds" any player who try to set up a massive dump-at-one-station network :)
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>just grain => food
10:01<andythenorth>'auto parts' also allows glass, plastics etc....
10:01<andythenorth>although they could just be manufacturing supplies, as now
10:02<drac_boy>Eddi|zuHause if you want to get serious you could make a whole 'alternative' economy that is nothing but just purely vehicles producing and selling :P ('selling' as in to town dealers)
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>"chassis parts" would include glass
10:02<drac_boy>there would be a lot of small details to make a very big vector schematic ;)
10:02<andythenorth>body parts in english maybe
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>well, the parts of the car that you see from the outside and that you sit in :)
10:03<andythenorth>yarp
10:03<drac_boy>sand>glass ... rubber>tire ... crude oil>refined oil>plastic>carbody ... cottonfield>seats ... and the list goes on
10:03<andythenorth>deliver them to an auto dealer?
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>drac_boy: you need to do some abstractions
10:04<andythenorth>+1
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: car shops demanding replacement parts?
10:04<andythenorth>maybe
10:05<andythenorth>economies are a PITA
10:05<andythenorth>I can't modify them without breaking savegames
10:05<andythenorth>but I have no way to judge if they're any good without player feedback
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>could be evil with YACD, when you can only deliver a fraction of the parts to the assembly plant to get cars, the others are "wasted" in some town-sink
10:06*andythenorth misses YACD :|
10:06*drac_boy wants network support, programmable signals, and maybe tunnel portal rails damn it :P
10:06<drac_boy>heh heh
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>oh i want lots of things :)
10:07*andythenorth wants to break savegames
10:08<drac_boy>Eddi|zuHause well my point really was re ottd being unuseable most of the times due to missing these basics
10:08<drac_boy>but then :)
10:09<drac_boy>andythenorth I'll leave you with that
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10:33<@peter1138>i guess by network you don't mean multiplayer...
10:48<drac_boy>sorry yeah I meant that :-s
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11:01<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24696 /trunk/src (widget_type.h window_gui.h) (2012-11-11 16:01:34 UTC)
11:01<@DorpsGek>-Doc: Improve documentation for button widget types.
11:05<Kylie|2>had a question
11:05<Kylie|2>ho do i find the center of a town
11:05<Kylie|2>downtown
11:06<andythenorth>sign
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11:07<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24697 /trunk/src (5 files) (2012-11-11 16:07:46 UTC)
11:07<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Use WDF_UNCLICK_BUTTONS instead of duplicating the same functionality.
11:08<Kylie|2>andythenorth: ? oh wait
11:09<Kylie|2>andythenorth: downtown cloisest to sign?
11:09<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24698 trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp (2012-11-11 16:09:08 UTC)
11:09<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Use PUSH-buttons when buttons can be pushed.
11:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24699 /trunk/src (ai/ai_gui.cpp genworld_gui.cpp) (2012-11-11 16:10:11 UTC)
11:10<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Proper usage of push and toggle buttons in mapgen and script debug GUI.
11:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r24700 /trunk/src (41 files in 3 dirs) (2012-11-11 16:10:43 UTC)
11:10<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: Remove WDF_UNCLICK_BUTTONS and make it the default.
11:11<andythenorth>Kylie|2: tile under town sign
11:11<andythenorth>iirc
11:11<Kylie|2>andythenorth: nod, thanks
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11:50<andythenorth>frosch123: planetmaker Yexo Hirundo Terkhen Zuu Alberth et al - if I release FIRS 0.8.0, want to try it with new version of NoCarGoal later?
11:50<andythenorth>contains 'basic' economy :P
11:50<@Alberth>not tonight, sorry
11:50<frosch123>sure
11:51<frosch123>andythenorth: but we need someone to start the server :)
11:52<andythenorth>Ammler: ^^ :)
11:52*andythenorth wonders whether to use cowardice and do 0.8.0-RC1
11:54<andythenorth>or just wait for the bugs and do 0.8.1 :P
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i still think you should leave out the "basic" economy
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>until economies are somewhat stabilised
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>just remove the parameter from the GUI
11:57<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I could do that
11:57<andythenorth>but then how can we test it :(
11:57<andythenorth>unless I do some bananas release
11:58<andythenorth>also my implementation is underly-abstracted :(
11:59<andythenorth>I can't trivially turn an economy off
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>we test it by playing around in alphas, not in releases :)
12:00<Ammler>andythenorth: server is there and ready for your save :-)
12:00<andythenorth>\o/
12:00<Ammler>#openttdcoop.nightly
12:00<andythenorth>it's the same problem as always, no way to distribute 'testing' versions :P
12:00<Ammler>make a release test
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>$someone wanted to add support for testing versions to bananas
12:01<frosch123>aw, so we are playing without the newest newgrf code changes?
12:01<andythenorth>for FISH I've done alphas, compatible with latest ottd nightlies only
12:01<frosch123>it might even run then :p
12:02<Ammler>tag test should not create finger nor symlink LATEST
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 11 12:05:02 2012
---Logopened Sun Nov 11 12:05:08 2012
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12:12<Zuu>andythenorth: I might join in later, but first need to make something for dinner.
12:13*andythenorth is busy until 8pm UK time anyway
12:13<andythenorth>is it ok to get FIRS from bundles server?
12:13<andythenorth>not bananas
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12:15<frosch123>fine for me
12:15<frosch123>it's also a join protection :p
12:16<andythenorth>Zuu: is there an AI that can play NoCarGoal yet? o_O
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12:17<andythenorth>frosch123: I have no inspiration for maps etc, really don't care on dates, only that we have FIRS 0.8.0-test-1 from bundles, and FISH 2 (test version from bananas) :)
12:17<frosch123>i would like a nuts game
12:17<andythenorth>ok, I've never played nuts
12:17<andythenorth>sounds fun
12:18<frosch123>date does not matter for nuts
12:18<frosch123>1920-2000, any date is fine
12:18<frosch123>so, maybe 1940, so we do not get the very slow trains :)
12:19<andythenorth>sounds fine
12:19<andythenorth>not much HEQS in 1940 :)
12:19<andythenorth>only trams
12:19<frosch123>and disable "engines never expire" :p
12:20<andythenorth>do you want to make a save, or shall I?
12:20<andythenorth>I have 20 mins right now maybe
12:20<frosch123>i can do if you give me the firs link :)
12:20<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.8.0-test-1/
12:20<andythenorth>thanks
12:21<andythenorth>just forgot, it's my mum's birthday
12:21*andythenorth -> phone
12:21<andythenorth>:P
12:21<andythenorth>frosch123: don't forget 'basic' economy ;) http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.8.0-test-1/test_docs.txt
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12:32<frosch123>andythenorth: so, "basic" or "firs"?
12:32<frosch123>what shall i set the other parameters to?
12:32<andythenorth>basic I reckon :)
12:32<frosch123>closure?
12:33<andythenorth>off
12:33<frosch123>any specific climate?
12:33<frosch123>or it's all the same?
12:33<andythenorth>all the same
12:34<Ammler>why do we zip the tar? That looks kinda unnecessary anymore
12:36<andythenorth>frosch123: might want to set station rating param to 'improved'
12:36<frosch123>done
12:37<frosch123>7 years? 30k?
12:37<andythenorth>ok
12:38<frosch123>or too easy?
12:38<frosch123>i go for 40k
12:38<andythenorth>there might only be two of us :P
12:38<andythenorth>it can be *really* hard with few players
12:38<frosch123>ij
12:38<frosch123>ok
12:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by smatz :: r24701 trunk/config.lib (2012-11-11 17:39:54 UTC)
12:40<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5246]: Workaround an overoptimisation done by GCC 4.5
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12:42<frosch123>wood, food, eng supplies?
12:42<andythenorth>harsh but fair
12:45<frosch123>had to remake
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: tar is not compressed.
12:45<frosch123>iron ore, food, building materials?
12:45<andythenorth>also fine
12:45<andythenorth>I don't mind :)
12:46<Zuu>andythenorth: DictatorAI can talk to NoCarGoal. I havn't tested it, but krinn is the author of both DictatorAI and the underlying communication protocol.
12:46<andythenorth>should we include it in our game? :)
12:47<Zuu>I don't know. We could set a low #oopcode count if we want to have it there in the game without risking that it beats us :-p
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12:55<Eddi|zuHause>svn: E155036: Working copy '/mnt/disk2/spiele/OpenTTD/trunk' is too old (format 10, created by Subversion 1.6)
13:01<Rubidium>just upgrade your working copy
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, did that
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24702 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2012-11-11 18:45:07 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 1 changes by jhsoby
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14:10<andythenorth>since when has minimap had blink-on-hover? :o
14:11*andythenorth should read svn log more
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14:25<frosch123>some months ago
14:25<frosch123>firs annoyed me during the gs games :p
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14:29<andythenorth>tree setting is 'basic' ? :o
14:29<andythenorth>seems bikesheddy to me :P
14:30<frosch123>it's the default noob setting :p
14:30<frosch123>"advanced" should be the normal for every non-noob user
14:31<frosch123>"expert" is for people whose name start with v or something
14:31<V453000>im not even sure which tree stuff :D I only remember original/improved from generation settings
14:31<V453000>lol :d
14:31<V453000>ahhh those settings
14:32<V453000>it scared the shit out of me today as I didnt know about the new classing
14:33<andythenorth>why are GS goals not under the 'company performance' menu?
14:33<andythenorth>it puzzles me :)
14:33<frosch123>V453000: you thought we removed all settings? :p
14:33<V453000>well removed/hidden in cfg
14:34<V453000>was my first thought
14:34<V453000>I have read some wtf discussions on forums about how terribly complicated settings are so I almost thought people without brain got their fix
14:35<Rubidium>you should also add a 'god' class where any of the changed settings voids your warranty
14:35<V453000>lol
14:35<Rubidium>like the current cfg only pathfinder stuff
14:35<V453000>you should also add a setting which would prohibit building PBS
14:35<V453000>that would be awesome
14:36<Rubidium>it would be awesome if that settings reverts to default TT behaviour
14:36<V453000>:d
14:36<Rubidium>then it will be awesome
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: make the "god" setting cfg only, though :)
14:37<Rubidium>good *luck* building a decent network with TT the signal
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: two-way-only with red-as-dead-end? i had a network with unidirectional double track with those signals :)
14:38<V453000>well a game without PBS doesnt really have much to do with TT :)
14:39<Rubidium>if you want a setting to annoy the 'normal' user base, then you are asking for a setting that annoys you as well
14:40<V453000>im not sure what do you mean by that
14:41<andythenorth>anybody joining us for MP FIRS NoCarGo game?
14:41<andythenorth>#openttdcoop.nightly
14:41*andythenorth breaks channel rules
14:52<Rubidium>pff... ancient version of OpenTTD
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15:58<Wolf01>'night
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16:26<NGC3982>Evening
16:26<NGC3982>Ladies and proletarians.
16:26<Supercheese>No love for the bourgeois?
16:27<NGC3982>Bourgeoisie?
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16:28<Supercheese>My spellchecker said bourgeois... *shrug*
16:28<NGC3982>You seem to be correct.
16:29<NGC3982>And, love for everybody!
16:29<NGC3982>Even the wealthy stratum.
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16:49<Kylie|2>http://i.imgur.com/FVzVe.png # wasnt expecting this outcome
16:49<Kylie|2>i even removed both signals in front
16:49<Kylie|2>same issue
16:49<Kylie|2>er
16:50<Kylie|2>both signals after the first one is what i meant
16:51<frosch123>missing electrification or something like that?
16:52<Zuu>or a stale reservation
16:53<frosch123>reservations are easier to see, when the stations are set to complete transparent, not only shaded
16:53<frosch123>well, it's called invisible i guess
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>try ctrl+x and set "show reservations" in the advanced options
16:55<frosch123>they are already displayed
16:55<frosch123>you can see them under the train
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and make a screenshot using ctrl+s and disable image conversion by the upload site
16:59<+glx>many details are not visible in the image indeed
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17:16<andythenorth>ho
17:16<andythenorth>would town storage permit delivering farm supplies to a town, and farms knowing that?
17:16<andythenorth>i.e. one industry writes to a town register, others can read it?
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17:24<Eddi|zuHause>(answer to andy:) towns store all "town effect" cargos, other storage is probably not sensible
17:25<NGC3982>Kylie|2: Did the issue resolve itself?
17:25<Kylie|2>ah
17:25<Kylie|2>k tx
17:26<Kylie|2>1 secondq
17:31<Kylie|2>okay
17:31<Kylie|2>it wsas a stale reservation
17:31<Kylie|2>in the station
17:31<Kylie|2>so i just rebuilt the righ side
17:33<NGC3982>What is a "Stale reservation"?
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17:37<frosch123>a bug where a reservation with no associated train remains somewhere on the track
17:37<frosch123>and noone managed yet to write down rules how to reproduce it
17:38<Supercheese>Clearly you need at least one train and at least one junction :P
17:38<frosch123>the one i have heard abuot most, is somewhen when changing tracks around stations
17:39<@peter1138>i've had it, but whenever i try to repeat it it always works fine
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17:44<NGC3982>frosch123: I see.
17:44<NGC3982>I have never seen anything like it.
17:51<@Terkhen>good night
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20:28<drac_boy>hi
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20:40<Eddi|zuHause>"23. September 1926 • Amtlich wird gemeldet: Mit dem Jnkrafttreten des nächstjährigen Sommerfahrplans werden im inneren und im äußeren Dienstverkehr bei der Deutschen Reichspost und der Deutschen Reichsbahn die Stunden –um Mitternacht beginnend– von 1 bis 24 bezeichnet werden, wie es bereits in fast allen Ländern des europäischen Festlandes geschieht."
20:42<Elukka>"Arabic - detected"
20:42<Elukka>no, google, pretty sure that's not arabic...
20:43<drac_boy>heh
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20:57*drac_boy pokes flygon with a coal shovel from the class R locomotive
20:57<drac_boy>:p
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21:04*drac_boy pokes flygon again to be sure?
21:04<drac_boy>heh heh
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21:29*Flygon prods drac_boy
21:29<Flygon>Oh
21:29<Flygon>He's not here
21:30*drac_boy pokes flygon back
21:30<drac_boy>:)
21:30<Flygon>Oh
21:30<Flygon>Derp
21:30<drac_boy>how're you mr.brokenmodem?
21:30<drac_boy>;)
21:30<Flygon>It's a shaky wireless connection
21:30<Flygon>There's a brick wall
21:33<drac_boy>what doing now anyway?
21:47<Flygon>Not much
21:47<Flygon>Will have to do page 7 today
21:47<Flygon>Then find out when I do page 1...
21:47<drac_boy>heh :p
21:47<Flygon>I get the feeling he's going to have me on Spin Cycle @_@
21:48<drac_boy>:)
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---Logclosed Mon Nov 12 00:00:22 2012