| --- | Log | opened Mon Nov 12 00:00:22 2012 |
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| 02:26 | <Terkhen> | good morning |
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| 02:55 | <NGC3982> | Morning |
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| 03:11 | <Supercheese> | Good night |
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| 04:51 | <JVassie> | Anyone happen to have a link for the german TT forums please? |
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| 04:58 | <@peter1138> | tt-ms.de |
| 05:01 | <@planetmaker> | good day |
| 05:04 | <NGC3982> | Morning, PM, and Peter. |
| 05:06 | <Ammler> | guete Morge :-) |
| 05:06 | <Ammler> | he, what's with the German forum again? |
| 05:07 | <NGC3982> | Works around here. |
| 05:07 | <@peter1138> | Well, there's a big problem with them. They're all in German. |
| 05:07 | <NGC3982> | If it's http://www.tt-ms.de/home/ you are refering too. |
| 05:07 | <@planetmaker> | @ports |
| 05:07 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) |
| 05:07 | <NGC3982> | peter1138: ;) |
| 05:11 | <Ammler> | afaik, the admin of tt-ms is swiss |
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| 06:59 | <frosch123> | hmm, someone remembers the old days when cargo was delivered to stations before a vehicle arrived at them? |
| 06:59 | <frosch123> | is it true, that the station rating did not change? |
| 06:59 | <frosch123> | but stayed at the inital value until a vehicle arrived |
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| 07:02 | <NGC3982> | I recall something like that, yes. |
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| 07:06 | <frosch123> | nope, not true |
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| 07:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | once upon a time transfer stations did not get a rating |
| 07:18 | <NGC3982> | frosch123: ? |
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| 09:18 | <dihedral> | oi |
| 09:25 | <NGC3982> | I'm used to using irc with Irssi, on a shell. |
| 09:25 | <NGC3982> | Controlling it with putty, using tab to auto-complete stuff is great when gotten used to. |
| 09:26 | <NGC3982> | And i was thinking while configuring my server with rcon, would auto-complete be possible? |
| 09:26 | <NGC3982> | It feels like a good idea, initially. |
| 09:28 | -!- | Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 09:28 | <frosch123> | i think in some places there is implicit autocompletion |
| 09:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | afair there's already autocomplete for town names and player names |
| 09:28 | <frosch123> | don't confuse chat and console :p |
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| 09:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, i mean there is already some infrastructure there, which may be extended upon |
| 09:29 | <NGC3982> | Ah, i see. |
| 09:30 | <frosch123> | anyway, iirc some stuff autocompletes if it unique |
| 09:30 | <NGC3982> | When logging on as a player, do i download the cfg from the server? |
| 09:30 | <frosch123> | set and list_settings and stuff |
| 09:30 | <frosch123> | though i am not sure :p |
| 09:31 | <frosch123> | NGC3982: some settings are tied to the savegame (i.e. the server), some to the client, some to the company (depending on whether you join or start new) |
| 09:31 | <frosch123> | if you are using a recent version the adv. settings dialog displays for each setting what type it is |
| 09:32 | <frosch123> | (recent might mean "not stable release") |
| 09:32 | <NGC3982> | Ok. |
| 09:46 | <Ammler> | you should also check the just introduced admin interface :-P |
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| 09:48 | <Ammler> | of course you don't download the cfg, it might have sensitive data on it |
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| 09:58 | <NGC3982> | How do i take part of the settings, then? |
| 10:01 | <NGC3982> | Speaking of |
| 10:01 | <NGC3982> | No, not speaking at all. |
| 10:01 | <NGC3982> | Bbl. |
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| 10:57 | <drac_boy> | hi |
| 10:57 | <andythenorth> | ho |
| 10:57 | <drac_boy> | anyone around for some random train discussions? :p |
| 10:58 | <drac_boy> | oh hi andythenorth-the-crazy-coder |
| 10:58 | <drac_boy> | heh heh |
| 10:59 | <V453000> | I can give you some random train discussion but I am afraid you will not like it :( |
| 11:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | [23:24:08] <Eddi|zuHause> (answer to andy:) towns store all "town effect" cargos, other storage is probably not sensible |
| 11:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | gtg, though |
| 11:01 | <NGC3982> | http://i.imgur.com/92jDG.png |
| 11:02 | <NGC3982> | This is a good day. |
| 11:03 | <andythenorth> | NGC3982: you need to go more meta |
| 11:03 | <andythenorth> | make a rollercoaster industry *inside* OpenTTD |
| 11:03 | <andythenorth> | which contains a full running RCT game |
| 11:03 | <Eddi|zuHause> | someone tried that already |
| 11:03 | <drac_boy> | V453000 well...give it a go :P |
| 11:04 | <V453000> | my current train issue is whether I want to autoreplace 3000 asiastars to a different engine, and I am thinking of options how |
| 11:05 | <andythenorth> | so...looks like FIRS economies are going to produce a nice list of ponies and wishful thinking |
| 11:05 | <drac_boy> | V453000 did asiastars even exist anywhere? :) |
| 11:05 | <V453000> | does that matter? |
| 11:05 | <andythenorth> | on a cosmic timescale, no |
| 11:06 | <andythenorth> | on a nerd timescale, maybe |
| 11:06 | <V453000> | I wasnt responding to you andy ... I havent seen economies yet :) enough to talk about it, at least |
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| 11:06 | <andythenorth> | I meant the asiastars :P |
| 11:08 | * | drac_boy would had rather ordered/refurbished some BR.103's by then instead ;) |
| 11:12 | <NGC3982> | andythenorth: My god. |
| 11:12 | <NGC3982> | < Eddi|zuHause> someone tried that already |
| 11:12 | * | NGC3982 gets the chills. |
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| 12:48 | <andythenorth> | la la la |
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| 12:55 | * | LordAro wonders if he has ever mentioned that he hates wireless |
| 13:01 | <V453000> | frosch123: I cant even talk there :D |
| 13:02 | <frosch123> | :) |
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| 13:09 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24703 /trunk/src (station_cmd.cpp station_gui.cpp) (2012-11-12 18:09:33 UTC) |
| 13:09 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix: Disallow closing oilrig airports in SE. |
| 13:10 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24704 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2012-11-12 18:10:02 UTC) |
| 13:10 | <@DorpsGek> | -Cleanup: No need to initialise stuff twice. |
| 13:10 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24705 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2012-11-12 18:10:21 UTC) |
| 13:10 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix: Station rating might consider very old vehicles very young. |
| 13:10 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24706 trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp (2012-11-12 18:10:42 UTC) |
| 13:10 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix (r10981): [NewGRF] Station var 48 should report acceptance, not supply. |
| 13:11 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24707 trunk/src/station_base.h (2012-11-12 18:11:05 UTC) |
| 13:11 | <@DorpsGek> | -Doc: Improve description of GoodsEntryStatus flags. |
| 13:11 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24708 /trunk/src (station_base.h station_cmd.cpp) (2012-11-12 18:11:26 UTC) |
| 13:11 | <@DorpsGek> | -Codechange: Check magic values of GoodsEntry::last_speed only via wrapper function. |
| 13:11 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24709 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2012-11-12 18:11:46 UTC) |
| 13:11 | <@DorpsGek> | -Codechange: Simplify some code. |
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| 13:18 | <Rait> | Hello |
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| 13:18 | <Rait> | where can i download symbols for releases? |
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| 13:24 | <frosch123> | we don't have bundles for debug symbols |
| 13:25 | <Rait> | well, that sucks. i would've taken a look at win 8 fullscreen problem, but no chance then |
| 13:26 | <frosch123> | ah, for msvc there are the files somewhere |
| 13:26 | <frosch123> | glx might know |
| 13:26 | <+glx> | they are on binaries |
| 13:27 | <frosch123> | http://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/games/openttd/binaries/releases/1.2.3/index.html <- ah, indeed, there are pdb files |
| 13:27 | <+glx> | also available for nightlies |
| 13:28 | <Rait> | cool, thanks |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by translators :: r24710 trunk/src/lang/indonesian.txt (2012-11-12 18:45:07 UTC) |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | indonesian - 42 changes by adjayanto |
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| 14:23 | <maan> | hello again - is this a channel for support? |
| 14:23 | <frosch123> | this is the general channel for everythin |
| 14:23 | <andythenorth> | we should get ZenDesk for support o_O |
| 14:24 | <andythenorth> | maybe we can pay someone to do it :P |
| 14:24 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: we should do that for osx support :p |
| 14:24 | <andythenorth> | there's OS X support? :o |
| 14:25 | <frosch123> | yup, provided by andy |
| 14:25 | <frosch123> | do you know him? |
| 14:25 | <maan> | hi guys - only found out about OpenTTD yesterday and wow am impressed |
| 14:25 | <maan> | i been playing it all day lol |
| 14:26 | <FLHerne> | It does that to you :-/ |
| 14:26 | <frosch123> | still impressed? or already depressed? :p |
| 14:26 | <maan> | lol |
| 14:26 | <FLHerne> | Ruined my productivity for the last two years now :-( |
| 14:26 | <maan> | i must admit i been going round in circles but hey thats the fun of it |
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| 14:28 | <maan> | i got a prob that i can't seem to solve involving broken trucks, can't figure out how to replace one |
| 14:28 | <maan> | such a basic question for you guys lol |
| 14:29 | <Yexo> | send it to a depot, click clone, click original vehicle, sell original vehicle, start new vehicle |
| 14:29 | <@Alberth> | when you play with breakdowns, make sure there are enough depots around for servicing |
| 14:29 | <maan> | see told ya it was an easy one for you guru's lol |
| 14:29 | <Kylie> | hi maan |
| 14:30 | <maan> | hi kylie |
| 14:30 | <Kylie> | maan: also there ius auto replaace if, uh |
| 14:30 | <@Alberth> | when you get tired of doing what Yexo suggest, read about autorenew and autoreplace |
| 14:30 | <maan> | i did look at thta but wasn't sure it was working lol |
| 14:30 | <Kylie> | maan: if you need to upgrade or downgrade capacity or use different vehicles |
| 14:31 | <Kylie> | maan: there is a caevat here tho |
| 14:31 | <maan> | now yr getting too technical kylie lol |
| 14:32 | <Kylie> | maan: a vehicle with a given name cannot be autoreplaced witth thee same vehicle |
| 14:32 | <FLHerne> | maan: Autorenew replaces vehicles with new vehicles of the same type as they reach their maximum recommended age, Autoreplace replaces vehicles immediately with vehicles of a different type :-) |
| 14:32 | <Kylie> | maan: ^^^^^ |
| 14:32 | <maan> | nice tips there thanks huys |
| 14:32 | <maan> | guys* |
| 14:33 | <FLHerne> | Also, look at the screenshots forum. It has interesting examples of ways you can build stuff |
| 14:33 | <FLHerne> | Usually with trains, because trains are fun :P |
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| 14:34 | <maan> | yeah got scrnshots coming outta my eyes now lol |
| 14:34 | <Zuu> | Or start some AIs and have an example game played just for you :-) |
| 14:34 | <FLHerne> | Zuu: That relies on the AI not behaving like an idiot, like it normally does :P |
| 14:35 | * | FLHerne hasn't found an AI that's fun to play against yet :-( |
| 14:35 | <maan> | only been using trucks for short distance around the cities and trains for longer ones |
| 14:35 | <Zuu> | I have had fun playing against my own AI for more than once. |
| 14:35 | <Kylie> | maan: generally a good policy |
| 14:36 | <maan> | omg you guys are coders too |
| 14:36 | <Kylie> | quck question for yall |
| 14:36 | <Kylie> | quick* |
| 14:36 | <Zuu> | Also, while I'm biased, I don't think all AIs behave like idiots. |
| 14:36 | <maan> | lol |
| 14:36 | <FLHerne> | Zuu: AIAI is better than the rest, but not by enough :P |
| 14:37 | <Kylie> | i've noticed trucks/buses have a high running cost and that presents itself in high losses |
| 14:37 | <FLHerne> | There's a difference between 'profitable' and 'not an idiot' ;-) |
| 14:37 | <Kylie> | what ca n be done to mitigate these high losses? |
| 14:38 | <maan> | funny but i been earning quite nicely from buses/trucks |
| 14:38 | <frosch123> | if it is only busses/trucks, you might want to use a basecost grf |
| 14:38 | <FLHerne> | Kylie: What sort of situation are you using them in? |
| 14:38 | <Yexo> | Kylie: make sure they have higher profits? |
| 14:38 | <Kylie> | FLHerne: im just talking generally |
| 14:38 | <Yexo> | it really depends on the newgrf you use for them what the runnings costs are |
| 14:38 | <Kylie> | but i know that passenger delivery creates losses |
| 14:39 | <FLHerne> | Kylie: Buses seem not to cause trouble for anyone else, so you must be doing something wrong :D |
| 14:39 | <Yexo> | s/wrong/different/ |
| 14:39 | <Kylie> | wekll, what's the /ideal/ profitable situaation for passenger delivery with buses ? |
| 14:39 | <FLHerne> | Yexo: If 'Different' leads to 'negative profit', it's wrong :P |
| 14:39 | <NGC3982> | For pete sake |
| 14:40 | <Kylie> | emphasis on iddeal |
| 14:40 | <maan> | i got 10 buses/trucks and earning around 27k |
| 14:40 | <Yexo> | Kylie: that question is way too general, even though it might not look like it, there are a lot of settings that influence that, not in the least which NewGRFs you are using |
| 14:40 | <NGC3982> | What use do a 891 letter long URL have in the content download if i can't click it. |
| 14:40 | <frosch123> | there is a "website" button at the bottom |
| 14:41 | <Kylie> | well i dont have a game up here so :p |
| 14:41 | <Yexo> | ideal situation is a newgrf which settings running cost to 0, increase payment for passengers a lot, increases passenger productino and also max cargo load of road vehicles |
| 14:41 | <FLHerne> | Kylie: Ideal for any mode of transport is running fully loaded from one corner of the map to the other, fully loaded, then unloading, reloading, and going back the other way ;-) |
| 14:41 | <Kylie> | FLHerne: that far? |
| 14:41 | <FLHerne> | Plus what Yexo said, of course |
| 14:42 | <Kylie> | Yexo: names of newgrf pls? |
| 14:43 | <FLHerne> | Kylie: In general, further is better. Payment is based on cargo/speed, so the further you go, the higher the average speed (less accelerating) and the further the distance :-) |
| 14:43 | <Yexo> | Kylie: that was a hypothetical example |
| 14:43 | <Yexo> | a basecost newgrf can be used to change running cost, different town sets have different passenger production rates |
| 14:43 | <@Alberth> | you don't need increased pax production, they come with enough people already :p |
| 14:43 | <Kylie> | FLHerne: ah makes sense |
| 14:43 | <Kylie> | pax = ? |
| 14:43 | <@Alberth> | passengers |
| 14:43 | <FLHerne> | Of course, that isn't a very good place to use buses, because trains or planes are far more profitable over such distances :P |
| 14:44 | <Kylie> | FLHerne: true |
| 14:47 | <NGC3982> | FLHerne: Oh! |
| 14:47 | <NGC3982> | FLHerne: My irritation was absurdly missplaced. |
| 14:48 | <Kylie> | FLHerne: i've had to replace buses with streetcars in densely populated areas |
| 14:48 | <maan> | its fun learning by yr mistakes tho lol |
| 14:49 | <maan> | sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees so it's nice to get fresh eyes on a problem and for that I thank you for yr suggestions guys |
| 14:49 | <maan> | it worked too lol |
| 14:49 | <frosch123> | maan: just press ctrl+x and set trees to invisible :p |
| 14:50 | <maan> | i was speaking figuratively there lol |
| 14:50 | <Kylie> | ive done caalculations and the amount of buses to satisfy the capacity in densely populated areas gets too high so yeah |
| 14:51 | <frosch123> | usually trams have higher capacity |
| 14:51 | <Kylie> | yes thats why i've replaced wiith trams :p |
| 14:51 | <frosch123> | streetcars are trams? |
| 14:51 | <maan> | i not got that far yet so more fun to come |
| 14:52 | <frosch123> | weird AE :p |
| 14:52 | <Kylie> | streetcar = tram frosch123 |
| 14:52 | <frosch123> | i thought the streetcar newgrf provides personal cars like taxis etc. |
| 14:53 | <Yexo> | frosch123: us english vs british english :) |
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| 15:00 | <frosch123> | hmm, what application to use for rss feeds? |
| 15:01 | <frosch123> | i cannot find an option in evolution |
| 15:01 | <frosch123> | and firefox does not notify me about new messages |
| 15:02 | <@Alberth> | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/bamboo-feed-reader/?src=api ?? |
| 15:02 | <andythenorth> | use your mail client? |
| 15:02 | <Ammler> | frosch123: hehe, poor gnome user has to search for tools like windows :-) |
| 15:03 | <frosch123> | Ammler: you mean i shall use the gnome default one? |
| 15:03 | <frosch123> | "liferea" - never heard about it :p |
| 15:12 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24711 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2012-11-12 20:12:26 UTC) |
| 15:12 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix (r10354): Check whether to not display a ^ loading indicator at drop stations only worked if there was no other vehicle unloading for 255 ticks. |
| 15:12 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24712 trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp (2012-11-12 20:12:45 UTC) |
| 15:12 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix [FS#5303]: [NewGRF] Station variables 61 and 62 returned incorrect values, if no vehicle ever tried loading. |
| 15:13 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24713 /trunk/src (roadveh_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp) (2012-11-12 20:13:02 UTC) |
| 15:13 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix [FS#5262]: [NewGRF] Tolerate old NewGRFs returning invalid values via CB 11. |
| 15:13 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24714 /trunk/src (newgrf_station.cpp station_cmd.cpp) (2012-11-12 20:13:17 UTC) |
| 15:13 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix [FS#5337]: [NewGRF] Draw default foundations if resolving of custom station foundation sprites fails. |
| 15:13 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24715 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2012-11-12 20:13:34 UTC) |
| 15:13 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix [FS#5335]: [NewGRF] Allow stations to draw snow/desert aware ground sprites with railtype overlays. |
| 15:13 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24716 trunk/src/openttd.cpp (2012-11-12 20:13:51 UTC) |
| 15:13 | <@DorpsGek> | -Feature(ette): Reset engine pool when starting a scenario. |
| 15:14 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24717 trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp (2012-11-12 20:14:08 UTC) |
| 15:14 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix [FS#5139]: When starting a scenario apply the local company settings to the new company. |
| 15:14 | <@Alberth> | Akregator seems to allow notifications |
| 15:14 | <FLHerne> | frosch123: Akregator is nice. Also part of Kontact, so I can deal with mail and calendars at the same time :-) |
| 15:14 | <frosch123> | i use the gnome default one for now |
| 15:14 | <FLHerne> | Alberth: Oi! I was saying that! :D |
| 15:15 | * | andythenorth thinks rss is like email, so a mail client makes sense :P |
| 15:15 | <FLHerne> | frosch123: You should get KDE instead and use the defaults for that :P |
| 15:15 | <@Alberth> | irc is an asynchronous system :) |
| 15:15 | <frosch123> | FLHerne: i left kde with version 4 |
| 15:15 | <frosch123> | i might retry it with gnome 3 :p |
| 15:15 | <FLHerne> | frosch123: They fixed it. 4.9 is great :-) |
| 15:16 | <FLHerne> | I remember 4.0, that was indeed the buggiest POC ever |
| 15:16 | <@Alberth> | FLHerne: you did not try Gnome 3 then :) |
| 15:16 | <@Alberth> | quite unusable :) |
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| 15:16 | <frosch123> | FLHerne: 4.3 was the only one i tried |
| 15:17 | <FLHerne> | Alberth: I gave it a quick try, the WM didn't crash every time I resized a window :P |
| 15:17 | <frosch123> | then i switched to xfce. when i switched to debian, i just used the default gnome |
| 15:17 | <frosch123> | but when i update debian somewhen, i might check something else, since the debian preview i have in a vm has a crappy gnome |
| 15:17 | <@Alberth> | gnome2 is sane enough to use :) |
| 15:17 | <FLHerne> | frosch123: 4.4 was where it started to improve significantly, by 4.6 they had it almost nailed :-) |
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| 15:18 | <FLHerne> | 4.7-4.9 has been mostly minor stuff, but covered all the niggly 'why does it behave like that?' issues I had before |
| 15:26 | <frosch123> | well, i have learned to try new releases and wms only in a vm first :p |
| 15:31 | <Rait> | anyone tried compiling with VS2012? |
| 15:32 | * | Rubidium remembers failing in a pre-beta version |
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| 15:33 | <Rait> | yeah, it whines about macro redefinition |
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| 15:39 | <Yexo> | Rait: could you copy/paste the exact error to http://paste.openttdcoop.org/ ? |
| 15:39 | <Rait> | error VS gives me? |
| 15:39 | <Yexo> | yes |
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| 15:43 | <frosch123> | yay, my TODO bookmarks fit on one page again! |
| 15:45 | <FLHerne> | My one Todo is: Update list of things to do :D |
| 15:46 | <frosch123> | are you not doing that during your sleep? |
| 15:46 | <Rait> | http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1922/ |
| 15:46 | <FLHerne> | frosch123: Yes, but then I never get round to typing it into my computer :P |
| 15:48 | <frosch123> | Rait: so it fails to give a proper error location? :p |
| 15:49 | <Rait> | seems so |
| 15:49 | <frosch123> | anyway, does it work if you comment stdafx.h:187 ? |
| 15:49 | <@Alberth> | nice error :p |
| 15:49 | <Rait> | it's already commented out |
| 15:50 | <Yexo> | Rait: does it compile with http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/msvc2012.diff ? |
| 15:50 | <Rait> | by me that is |
| 15:50 | <Yexo> | nvm, that's what frosch123 already suggested :p |
| 15:50 | <frosch123> | did you check that "xkeycheck.h" file? |
| 15:50 | <frosch123> | i have no idea what that refers to |
| 15:51 | <Yexo> | #pragma warning(enable: 4005) <- perhaps that helps? |
| 15:51 | <Rait> | yeah, it basically disallows any overrides of c++ keywords and throws errors if it finds one |
| 15:51 | <Rait> | Yexo, this goes where? |
| 15:51 | <Yexo> | somewhere in stdafx.h |
| 15:51 | <Yexo> | near the top |
| 15:54 | <Rubidium> | is inline a c++ keyword then? |
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| 15:54 | <Rubidium> | ah yes... it seems to be |
| 15:54 | <frosch123> | it is listed in 2.11 "keywords" |
| 15:55 | <Rubidium> | ohoh... that's going to yield a mess |
| 15:55 | <Yexo> | s/inline/FORCEINLINE/ in all header files? |
| 15:56 | <@Alberth> | didn't we remove all the incline stuff recently? |
| 15:56 | <@Alberth> | -c |
| 15:56 | <Yexo> | apparently, I can't find it anymore |
| 15:56 | <Rubidium> | exactly that :( |
| 15:57 | <Rait> | Yexo after the fix: |
| 15:57 | <Rait> | Warning 2 warning C4615: #pragma warning : unknown user warning type (..\src\core\alloc_func.cpp) e:\dl\openttd-1.2.3-source\openttd-1.2.3\src\stdafx.h 12 1 strgen |
| 15:57 | <Rait> | repeated by several hundred copys. i guess efery file compiling touches |
| 15:57 | <Rait> | some errors too |
| 15:57 | <Yexo> | Rait: so it's impossible to disable that warning |
| 15:58 | <frosch123> | r23640 removed the FORCEINLINE |
| 15:58 | <Yexo> | commenting out the #define inline __forceinline line should work though |
| 15:58 | <frosch123> | before that we defined inline to _inline |
| 15:59 | <Yexo> | question is: do we really need __forceinline everywhere? |
| 15:59 | <frosch123> | only a profile run can answer :) |
| 16:00 | <Rubidium> | IIRC it was significant enough for the pathfinder |
| 16:01 | <frosch123> | well, but also with lto? :p |
| 16:01 | <Rubidium> | and I wonder whether the (map) accessors and stuff are considered easy enough by the compiler to inline them |
| 16:01 | <Rubidium> | frosch123: lto isn't really used yet |
| 16:01 | <Rubidium> | not sure whether it actually reliably works yet |
| 16:01 | <Yexo> | if the map accessors are not automatically inlined msvc is really braindead |
| 16:01 | <frosch123> | we are talking about msvc |
| 16:01 | <Yexo> | I'd be really surprised if they are not btw |
| 16:02 | <Rubidium> | I'd first check *if* MSVC 2012 can build proper binaries and then start thinking about profiling |
| 16:03 | <Rubidium> | I seem to remember you being only able to build app store apps with it (or with the free version at least) |
| 16:03 | <Yexo> | that got reverted |
| 16:03 | <Rubidium> | sissies |
| 16:03 | <Yexo> | there is now an "express for windows 8" and an "express for windows desktop" |
| 16:06 | <SmatZ> | compiling openttd with -Winline gives tons of "inlining failed" messages |
| 16:06 | <frosch123> | "failed"? |
| 16:06 | <frosch123> | how can it fail? |
| 16:06 | <Rubidium> | recursion |
| 16:06 | <SmatZ> | frosch123: gcc decided not to inline the call :P |
| 16:06 | <frosch123> | oh, haha :p |
| 16:06 | <Yexo> | or function being to big to inline |
| 16:06 | <SmatZ> | it doesn't even need to be "uninlinable" |
| 16:07 | <SmatZ> | warning: inlining failed in call to ‘T Align(T, uint) [with T = unsigned int; uint = unsigned int]’: call is unlikely and code size would grow [-Winline] |
| 16:07 | <SmatZ> | warning: inlining failed in call to ‘NWID* Window::GetWidget(uint) [with NWID = NWidgetCore; uint = unsigned int]’: call is unlikely and code size would grow [-Winline] |
| 16:07 | <SmatZ> | I think these two are mentioned the most often |
| 16:07 | <frosch123> | well, ok, if it calls that "failed" :) |
| 16:07 | <Rubidium> | GetWidget being called unlikely? |
| 16:08 | <Yexo> | splitting inline to "inline" and "FORCEINLINE" has the advantage we could use __attribute__((always_inline)) for gcc |
| 16:11 | <@Alberth> | compared with path finding, GetWidget is unlikely :) |
| 16:12 | <Yexo> | it's per call to GetWidget |
| 16:13 | <Yexo> | first time it warns for me it from ai_gui.cpp:113, that call is certainly unlikely |
| 16:17 | <SmatZ> | http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/Winline_sort.txt many warnings :) |
| 16:17 | <SmatZ> | 9321 lines.. |
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| 16:20 | <SmatZ> | I am not compiling a release version, so assert() grows many small functions significantly... |
| 16:20 | <Rubidium> | I hope it isn't an enable-debug=3-ish build either ;) |
| 16:21 | <Yexo> | SmatZ: that makes the test basically useless |
| 16:21 | <SmatZ> | yeah, recompiling now :) |
| 16:22 | <Rubidium> | gheheh... today xkcd remember me of Guy Steele's "Growing a language" speech/presentation |
| 16:23 | <SmatZ> | :) |
| 16:24 | <V453000> | hi beer :) |
| 16:25 | <SmatZ> | hello V. :) |
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| 16:32 | <Yexo> | http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/forceinline.diff <- on two random testgames with quite a few things going on this makes openttd significantly faster |
| 16:32 | <Yexo> | tested with: time bin/openttd -g savegame.sav -snull -mnull -vnull:ticks=2000 -x |
| 16:32 | <SmatZ> | good :) |
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| 16:33 | <Yexo> | +- 7.5s without vs +- 6.6s with that diff |
| 16:33 | <SmatZ> | 7.5s for 2000 ticks looks like very short time |
| 16:33 | <SmatZ> | wasn't the game paused? |
| 16:33 | <SmatZ> | or it wasn't a huge coop-style game :) |
| 16:34 | <Yexo> | not paused, the game was from coop actually |
| 16:34 | <Yexo> | 1378 trains |
| 16:34 | <frosch123> | @calc 2000/74 |
| 16:34 | <@DorpsGek> | frosch123: 27.027027027 |
| 16:34 | <frosch123> | one month |
| 16:34 | <frosch123> | quite fast for 7.5s |
| 16:34 | <SmatZ> | you have a very powerful CPU then :) |
| 16:34 | <Rubidium> | or it is just scanning NewGRFs? |
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| 16:35 | <Yexo> | Rubidium: I've tested that too of course |
| 16:35 | <Yexo> | loading an almost empty games takes +- 1.7s |
| 16:35 | <Yexo> | most of that is scanning newgrfs |
| 16:35 | <frosch123> | you do not have 975 of them then :p |
| 16:36 | <Yexo> | devs.openttd.org/~yexo/coop19.sav <- there is the savegame |
| 16:36 | <Yexo> | only 600 |
| 16:36 | <Yexo> | but it's with a hot cache |
| 16:37 | <Yexo> | http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/speedy_md5.diff <- using openssl to calculate the md5 of newgrfs can speed up openttd a little bit |
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| 16:37 | <SmatZ> | http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/Winline_sort_disable_assert.txt only with 151 warnings... |
| 16:37 | <SmatZ> | that is gcc 4.8 |
| 16:37 | <Yexo> | but openssl' license is problematic I think, and using gnutls (also in the diff) is not faster than our code |
| 16:38 | <Yexo> | SmatZ: it would be more useful with the extra line of context, ie from where it fails to inline them |
| 16:38 | <SmatZ> | also adds an (optional) dependence.... |
| 16:39 | <SmatZ> | http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/make_log_disable_assert.txt Yexo <-- the whole log |
| 16:39 | <Yexo> | yeah, it was mostly an experiment to see if it could be done faster |
| 16:39 | <Yexo> | performance gain is minimal, so not worth the trouble imo |
| 16:41 | <andythenorth> | hi hi Yexo, would you mind looking at this sometime? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3954 |
| 16:42 | <andythenorth> | I had a look at it at the weekend, but found I had questions, so de-prioritised it :) |
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| 16:42 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 16:42 | <Yexo> | sure, np |
| 16:43 | <andythenorth> | the ticket should say the purpose - which is to provide more variety at industries with two outputs, e.g. farms |
| 16:43 | <andythenorth> | I'll add that |
| 16:43 | <Yexo> | please do |
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| 16:44 | <andythenorth> | thanks |
| 16:45 | <Rait> | anything else i can do regarding the w8 bug? |
| 16:45 | <Yexo> | warning: inlining failed in call to 'SQCompiler::~SQCompiler() noexcept (true)': call is unlikely and code size would grow [-Winline] <- how can the call to that destructor be unlikely? |
| 16:45 | <Yexo> | Rait: commenting out the "#define inline __forceinline" line should help |
| 16:45 | <Yexo> | if not, wait for somebody else with msvc2012 who can fix it |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | FIRS open tickets will soon all be graphics not code |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | apart from bugs that get raised :P |
| 16:47 | <Rait> | well, it's commented out and it still whines about this. the paste i gave is with this commented |
| 16:47 | <Rait> | but that's just me unable to compile. the real bug i was referring to whas going to fullscreen |
| 16:52 | <andythenorth> | bed |
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| 16:52 | <+michi_cc> | Rait: There's an identical line at src/3rdparty/squirrel/include/squirrel.h:39, you probably have to comment that as well. |
| 16:59 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r24718 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-12 21:59:02 UTC) |
| 16:59 | <@DorpsGek> | -Codechange: Rename GoodsEntry::days_since_pickup to GoodsEntry::time_since_pickup. |
| 16:59 | <@planetmaker> | evening |
| 17:03 | <Yexo> | hi planetmaker |
| 17:03 | <Yexo> | and good night :) |
| 17:03 | <@planetmaker> | :-) sleep well, Yexo |
| 17:03 | <Rait> | damnit, still won't compile. something about SAFESEH. no idea what this is :) |
| 17:03 | <Rait> | good night |
| 17:04 | <V453000> | 90% servicing interval means that whenever reliability drops below 90%, train will want to service? |
| 17:04 | <frosch123> | check the description |
| 17:04 | <frosch123> | it is realtive to the max reliavility |
| 17:04 | <frosch123> | but i do not know in which direction |
| 17:04 | <frosch123> | whether drop to 90% or drop by 90% :) |
| 17:04 | <V453000> | ah right |
| 17:05 | <V453000> | well yeah that is exactly what I am wondering about :) |
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| 17:05 | <frosch123> | the description says "by" |
| 17:05 | <V453000> | yeah |
| 17:06 | <frosch123> | just use "50" :p |
| 17:06 | <V453000> | so if I set it to 0%, it should mean trains always want to service? |
| 17:06 | <V453000> | 100 I mean, 0 disables it |
| 17:06 | <frosch123> | if you set it to 0% i guess they should not want to leave depots :p |
| 17:06 | <V453000> | exactly |
| 17:06 | <V453000> | need something like that |
| 17:07 | <frosch123> | no idea what happens when you set it to more than 100 :p |
| 17:07 | <V453000> | autoreplace needs the train to demand a service |
| 17:07 | <V453000> | idk but max is 900 for some reason :D guess thati s for the day units |
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| 17:07 | <frosch123> | well, the service percent/days setting is the most hackish mess we have in ottd |
| 17:08 | <frosch123> | btw. if you have a running game, changing the value in adv. settings has no effect iirc |
| 17:08 | <frosch123> | it only affects new vehicles, you have to change all your 5000 trains yourself |
| 17:08 | <V453000> | yeah I know |
| 17:09 | <V453000> | just for the next time |
| 17:09 | <V453000> | hm what could be better, 15 days or 5%? .) |
| 17:09 | <V453000> | I mean what occurs quicker |
| 17:09 | <V453000> | would have to test I assume |
| 17:09 | <frosch123> | depends on the vehicle |
| 17:09 | <frosch123> | the reliabilty drops at different speed |
| 17:10 | <V453000> | ah yeah that is true, there is some newgrf value for that |
| 17:10 | <V453000> | hm, guess 15 days is good enough |
| 17:10 | <frosch123> | anyway, if you only use it for autoreplace, then any value triggers it immediately |
| 17:10 | <V453000> | anyway ... I already suggested it, but it would be amazing if the train list ->send all trains for servicing command would just reset that value |
| 17:11 | <frosch123> | last servicing will always be the age of the vehicle, wouldn't it? |
| 17:11 | <V453000> | yeah but if the value is 600 days and I want to autoreplace trains within 300 days, I need to force them to depots |
| 17:11 | <frosch123> | well, there is no fs task about it, is there? |
| 17:11 | <frosch123> | so i cannot add it to my todo bookmarks |
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| 17:11 | <V453000> | ok :) |
| 17:11 | <V453000> | will do |
| 17:13 | <V453000> | btw is the bug where trains crash when at PBS if you make station longer? |
| 17:14 | <V453000> | will report that as well in case |
| 17:14 | <V453000> | it is in openttd since like forever it seems |
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| 17:17 | <@Terkhen> | good night |
| 17:24 | <V453000> | http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5362 |
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| 18:03 | <frosch123> | night |
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| 18:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | V453000: i think there are a few reservation errors with changing stations which nobody really looked at |
| 18:30 | <Eddi|zuHause> | most stale reservations i've seen were with stations |
| 18:30 | <V453000> | :) |
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| 20:37 | <Supercheese> | Question: Making an industry's production level affected by another nearby industry's production level (and/or how much cargo the other industry has received). Is this possible? |
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| --- | Log | closed Tue Nov 13 00:00:23 2012 |
