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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-11-15

---Logopened Thu Nov 15 00:00:26 2012
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03:15<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:05<@planetmaker>moin
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05:20<krinn>morning
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08:13<andythenorth>la la la
08:13<Flygon>Nice singing
08:14<andythenorth>electricity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIYAALiE_lA&feature=relmfu
08:15<andythenorth>what openttd *really* needs is tesla coils
08:15<NGC3982>Indeed.
08:16<Flygon>I want Tesla Coil trains
08:16<Flygon>Can train NewGRF's determine the amount of sparks they create?
08:16<andythenorth>ha
08:17<Flygon>It's a serious question
08:17<andythenorth>no
08:17<andythenorth>it's a sore point for andythenorth
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>http://img.pr0gramm.com/2012/11/fpuuf.jpg
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08:20<V453000>well if your trains would be massively weak, they would use all of their effort all the time ... which would make a lot of sparks
08:20<V453000>usability is .. :)
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>sparks have nothing to do with effort
08:21<andythenorth>did you see in the FISH thread btw, someone has suggested ships should have smoke
08:21<andythenorth>it's an intriguing idea
08:21<V453000>I thought when train has a hard time, it makes more sparks
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>what a stupid idea!! :p
08:21<V453000>with the setting set to 2
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: sparks are usually caused by dirty spots on the catenary
08:21-!-Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. when the contact between catenary and pantograph is weak
08:22<V453000>well I meant things like steam, diesel smoke and electricity sparks coming from top of trains
08:22<andythenorth>not so much in ottd :P
08:22<@planetmaker>does ice count as dirt? ;-)
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes :)
08:22<V453000>right
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>it's most common with ice
08:22<V453000>still, diesel/steam is based on what the train is doing
08:22<V453000>I think electricity just as well
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: steam puffs are not "sparks" :)
08:23<V453000>questionable!
08:23<V453000>ok maybe not
08:23<andythenorth>code will know
08:25<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the code calls them "effect vehicles", which cover all three types (and a little more)
08:28<V453000>that is what Flygon was talking about isnt it
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>in the context of tesla coils? why would he talk about steam puffs?
08:29<V453000>Can train NewGRF's determine the amount of sparks they create?
08:29<Flygon>Yes, that's what I want to know
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>"spark" = "electricity effect"
08:29<Flygon>The Tesla v1 train will be designed in 1894
08:29<V453000>that is what I am saying all the fucking time :D
08:30<Flygon>The Telsa v446 will come out in 2445 and will have the finest of Borg engineering
08:30<V453000>I like anything imaginary
08:30<Flygon>Okay then
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>you're nuts...
08:31<Flygon>What about the Flygon Aircraft? :D
08:31<Flygon>Half the room just groaned irl, I just know it
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>80% of the room is idle...
08:33<Flygon>Half the active room :U
08:35<V453000>+-5 people
08:36<Flygon>...
08:36<Flygon>How about this
08:36<Flygon>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_5v6dU9bNE Awesome music time
08:36<Flygon>Because, I feel like an idiot right now
08:37<Flygon>And I'd like to preserve what little humility I have left :p
08:38<V453000>now that is some wtf
08:38<Flygon>The music?
08:38<Flygon>It's not that bad :(
08:38<Markk>Is it Yello?
08:39<V453000>dont think this is Yello
08:39<Flygon>I'm so confused
08:40<Markk>Are you bicurious?
08:41<Flygon>Mate
08:41<Markk>Oi
08:41<Flygon>Uuuh
08:41<Flygon>Should I reply via query?
08:41<Flygon>>=3
08:41<Markk>Haha, do it.
08:41<Flygon>And besides
08:42<Flygon>I'm not Bike Curious
08:42<Markk>do so*
08:42<Flygon>I'm Bike Commuter
08:42<Markk>;)
08:42<Markk>Same here.
08:42<Markk>At least in the summer.
08:42<Flygon>Move to Melbourne
08:42<Markk>But right now I'm taking the bike to the train and back.
08:42<Markk>You don't think I kinda want to?
08:42<Flygon>Summer can go anywhere between 8c to 47c
08:42<Markk>Bloody cold up here atm.
08:42<Flygon>I tried to take my bike onto the Tram, and the driver said no :(
08:43<Flygon>So my friend went on the tram, and I used my bike
08:43<Flygon>As it turns out, bikes are faster than trams
08:43<Flygon>...and cars, and buses, and trucks, in the Melbourne CBD
08:43<Markk>:D
08:43<Flygon>But yeah, I tend to take my bike on the train too
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09:19<@Belugas>hello
09:19<Flygon>Heya
09:19<andythenorth>sqawk
09:19<andythenorth>what noise does the whale make?
09:19<andythenorth>this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kybyy1EkoOE
09:22<@Belugas>hehe
09:24<andythenorth>so what have I done to break FIRS ground sprites? :p
09:29<NGC3982>That's a very good song.
09:39<andythenorth>how do I get openttd to complain about broken sprites?
09:39<andythenorth>I need some debug
09:51<@planetmaker>might not have been you. might have been so before even
09:52<@planetmaker>might be related to invalid sprites being called, e.g. when drawing fences. maybe
09:52<@planetmaker>but not sure what you mean with "break"
09:53<andythenorth>trying different FIRS versions suggests it was me :)
09:53<andythenorth>iirc the layout is trying to draw sprite numbers that just don't exist (or so frosch told me)
09:54<andythenorth>it's in old old pnml templates
09:54<andythenorth>so unless it's an easy fix, I should just convert the affected industries
09:54<andythenorth>issue shows as '?' sprite, or just flickering other sprites
09:55<andythenorth>unfortunately, because I moved things it the repo, I've broken hg revision history on the affected files :P
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10:26<Ammler>yeah, I wonder how it is meant that hg rename should keep the history
10:26<Ammler>but just use the old path with hg log
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---Logclosed Thu Nov 15 10:58:40 2012
---Logopened Thu Nov 15 10:58:47 2012
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11:13<andythenorth>so
11:13<andythenorth>GS that 'uses' 'electricity'
11:14<andythenorth>needs to measure production at power stations (use delivered cargo as proxy)
11:14<andythenorth>needs to be tied to specific newgrfs
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11:14<andythenorth>needs to have some effect on town or other goals
11:15<andythenorth>I had an idea called 'GridIron' which is basically build 1 power station per town for n towns, and deliver x thousand tonnes of coal
11:15<andythenorth>it's a variation on cargo goal GS
11:18<Pinkbeast>It does seem to be coal that most makes the producer-led model of OTTD a little painful
11:22<andythenorth>?
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12:08<DanMacK>O/
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13:35<@Alberth>o/
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13:41*Alberth puts a cable through the channel
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r24751 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2012-11-15 18:45:23 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 13 changes by jhsoby
13:45<@DorpsGek>romanian - 36 changes by kkmic
13:45<@DorpsGek>swedish - 1 changes by Joel_A
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14:01<supermop>yo andy
14:02<andythenorth>lo
14:02<@Alberth>hi
14:02-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
14:02<@Alberth>hi Zuu
14:03<Zuu>Hello Alberth
14:03<supermop>so no one is writing a power gs, but everyone is saying they'd like one
14:03*Alberth has not said any such thing
14:03<supermop>haha
14:03<supermop>literalism aside,
14:03<andythenorth>I am not writing one
14:03<andythenorth>but I have a name and a concept - GridIron
14:04<supermop>is this something i could conceivably do?
14:04<andythenorth>probably
14:04<supermop>and how would the GS recognize power production?
14:04<@Alberth>anyone can, given that you have enough itch
14:04<supermop>it seems that simply looking for coal delivery isn't sufficient
14:04<Zuu>a GS can monitor cargo delivery to industries/towns
14:05<Zuu>why isn't it sufficent?
14:05<supermop>as some industry grfs could implement other types of power plants, not to mention industries that accept coal but do not produce pwer
14:06<@Alberth>supermop: don't try to get the optimal solution, just find any solution that works at first
14:06<supermop>supplying the Firs concrete factory with coal shouldn't power an aluminum plant
14:06<andythenorth>you have to tie it to specific grfs
14:06<andythenorth>you need to look for an industry ID
14:06<andythenorth>it's known to be a poor solution, but meh, try it
14:06<@Alberth>it's quite likely that once you have a solution, people will change their ideas
14:06<supermop>can you look for any cargo delivered to industry type X?
14:06<andythenorth>you can track delivered amounts
14:07<supermop>or only cargo y?
14:07<Zuu>You can check that the industry type doesn't have any cargo output.
14:07<andythenorth>right now the electricity debate has entered into bikeshedding territory :)
14:07<andythenorth>or rather, just a noisy debate :P
14:07<supermop>bikeshed?
14:07<supermop>what angloism is this?
14:07<andythenorth>arguing about what colour to paint the bikeshed at the nuclear power plant
14:08<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_Law_of_Triviality
14:08<supermop>blue
14:08<supermop>easy
14:08<andythenorth>actually the electricity debate is not bikeshedding
14:08<andythenorth>just noisy :P
14:08<Zuu>supermop: You can monitor cargo of a specific cargo type diliveried/picked up to/from any industry by a specific company.
14:08<andythenorth>supermop: just adapt NoCarGoal, or SiliconValley
14:08<andythenorth>SV might have more of what you need already
14:08<Zuu>Or you can monitor a specific town to get all cargo deliveried to houses and industries of that town.
14:09<supermop>can a gs require specific grfs, or is it agnostic?
14:09<@Alberth>http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSCargoMonitor.html
14:09<Zuu>A GS cannot check for specific NewGRFs by NewGRF id or name.
14:09<andythenorth>supermop: your readme.txt can require specific grfs :)
14:10<andythenorth>GS should be able to mark grfs as dependencies
14:10<supermop>what programming knowlege should I learn? do i need to knpow c?
14:10<Zuu>Squirrel is enough
14:11<Zuu>http://squirrel-lang.org/doc/squirrel2.html <--- not so good documentation of the language
14:12<Zuu>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=62163 <--- template GS that you can copy and rename for new projects
14:16<Zuu>http://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Main_Page <--- wiki page that describes the infrastructure for AIs which in most cases also apply to game scripts.
14:16*andythenorth wonders what will happen when it's discovered that only one GS per game is possible
14:16<andythenorth>and that GS has limited magical powers
14:17<andythenorth>:)
14:19<supermop>if you wanted power and some other goal, it would be reasonable to write a new script that did both?
14:22<Zuu>Yes, both would have to be in the same GS.
14:22<Zuu>At some point we will probably see the first GS pack.
14:23<Rubidium>andythenorth: a nuclear plant must be fluorescent green-ish yellow
14:23<supermop>how about objects that produce power but take no fuel, such as a wind farm or dam? can GS look for those specific items based on grf loaded or would there be another way?
14:24<Zuu>There is currently not an API to access NewObjects and properties of them.
14:24<supermop>ok
14:28<Rubidium>is there even a property to signal such things in objects at all?
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14:29<Zuu>I guess such things would need to go via the name. Though now that I think of it, the name that the GS would see is probably subject to translations.
14:30<supermop>can objects produce or accept cargo?
14:30<Zuu>No, for that you want an industry.
14:30<supermop>maybe dams etc would be better as industies or houses then
14:30<andythenorth>industries
14:30<andythenorth>hydro plant etc
14:31<andythenorth>requires: nothing
14:31<andythenorth>produces: nothing
14:31<supermop>industry that accepts and produces no cargo
14:31<supermop>i was hoping there would be a way to but a flag on some tiles (of anything) that says: this tile produces power
14:32<supermop>and gs looks at that
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14:33<andythenorth>nope
14:33<andythenorth>no way to do that
14:33<andythenorth>how much of town control is implemented?
14:33<supermop>kwh or mwh as a cargo would be good if one could forbid it from being transported
14:33<supermop>then gs looks for mwh produced
14:34<__ln__>i made a patch for that in ~2004
14:34<Zuu>Or just don't make any industries that accept mwh?
14:35<supermop>and you get the satisfaction of seeing a coal plant's productivity in its window
14:35<andythenorth>that could be done in text
14:35<andythenorth>but not in a way GS could read
14:35<supermop>hmm
14:35<andythenorth>do what can be done now
14:36<andythenorth>there are lots of ideas kicking around, but little interest in actually implementing :)
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14:36<andythenorth>same as you said on forums
14:36<supermop>can i mess around with gs on note pad or similar?
14:36<supermop>I am at work
14:36<Zuu>You can use notepad if you like
14:37<Zuu>Pretty much any text editor is enough.
14:37<Zuu>And OpenTTD to run the GS of course :-)
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14:37<supermop>i don't need a compiler?
14:37<supermop>(don't really get what a compiler is)
14:37<Zuu>No, OpenTTD have everything built in to intreprete the .nut files.
14:38<Zuu>To my understanding it reads the source files and does some sort of compiling/intrepreteing when you start a game to not have to read the .nut files letter by letter when it executes the script. But this all happen inside of OpenTTD.
14:39<andythenorth>newgrf wiki has nothing about town control
14:39<Zuu>Town APIs: http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSTown.html
14:40<Zuu>What you want to watch out for is statements like these "Valid GSCompanyMode active in scope." in the description of an API. That means that it must perform that action on behalf of a company.
14:41<Zuu>s/description/list of preconditions/
14:43<Zuu>In several cases patches that lift these restrictions will probably be accepted. However, many of these require more than just a one-line change and making sure you don't break anything. For example the industry construction for GS change took me several hours to prepare.
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14:44<Zuu>I don't want to discourage anyone from looking at other restrictions, just saying that going over all and lifting where possible, will take time.
14:49<Rubidium>... and even then bugs might creep up years later ;)
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15:06<__ln__>http://mars-one.com/en/
16:11<supermop>has no one said anything in the past hour?
16:11<supermop>weird
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16:19<__ln__>everything's been said already, there's nothing more to discuss.
16:20<supermop>yep might as well decommission the channel
16:21<Supercheese>Hmm, I haven't yet learned how to code GS
16:22<Supercheese>just grfs
16:22<__ln__>so, would anyone here be willing to emigrate to Mars?
16:22<Supercheese>No way, the latency on mutliplayer games would be horrendous
16:25<NGC3982> http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/lanube/25130513/53599/53599_600.gif
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16:33<Supercheese>So... even if one were to write an Electricity-related gamescript... what should it do, exactly?
16:33<@planetmaker>*that* is the good question ;-)
16:33<Rubidium>empower the user
16:33<Supercheese>That's the $64,000 question
16:34<supermop>i will write a GS for $64,000
16:34<@planetmaker>I'd suggest to implement it like boosting or even enabling town growth, if nearby power plant receives coal
16:34<supermop>i'll need 50% up front
16:34<Supercheese>There's one suggestion
16:34<Rubidium>spark the user's imagination?
16:34<Supercheese>some folks seem to want electricity generation required to run electrified trains
16:34<Rubidium>good luck starting in 2050 then
16:34<Supercheese>I personally don't care for that feature, but more importantly, is that even possible?
16:35<supermop>i don't know if it would be
16:35<Rubidium>or actually, good luck starting any time...
16:35<Rubidium>as trucks/busses would then need diesel
16:35<Supercheese>Horse-drawn stuff?
16:35<supermop>i think if you do that, you need well supplied oil refineries too
16:35<Rubidium>horses need straw/grain
16:35<supermop>rickshaws
16:35<Supercheese>First route must be from farm
16:35<Supercheese>:P
16:35<Rubidium>rickshaws need food
16:36<supermop>humans buy their own food with their salary
16:36<Rubidium>steam trains need coal
16:36<Supercheese>Heyyy... there are no rickshaws are there
16:36*Supercheese wonders how hard it would be to draw them
16:36<Rubidium>rickshaws are not impossible
16:36<supermop>but only if you have a productive food industry!
16:36<Supercheese>or bicycles, for that matter. Both would probably be like 5 pixels though
16:36<Supercheese>but the scales are so out of whack anyway
16:36<Supercheese>might as well make bicycles the size of buses
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>the first railway companies to use electric traction usually built their own power plant
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>in switzerland and bavaria they used water power, and in central germany coal power
16:37<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: that needs building materials
16:37<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: not just because of no other generation, but also because they didn't have good enough long distance transmission yet
16:38<supermop>so force user to build feeder plants
16:38<supermop>and watering stations for steam
16:38<Zuu>Making a power GS that work on the default industries should be fairly simple. Restrict it to watch dead-end industries that take the only cargo with the label "COAL". If > X coal units have been received for a town the last month, enable town growth of that town, otherwise disable it.
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>the tram companies also often were the first ones to bring electricity to a town
16:38<Supercheese>Water towers for steam engines are already drawn
16:39<Supercheese>so are coal loaders
16:39<Supercheese>and I guess wood loaders for wood-burning
16:39<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: false, we do have electricity, but not trams
16:39<supermop>now just make them mandatory for confused new users
16:39<Zuu>For powered engines, abuse the ability to sell player vehicles to sell electric engines if they aren't bought in a depot that have a powerplant nearby.
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i said _often_
16:40<supermop>Zuu: i thought of that
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>in the years 1885..1900
16:40<supermop>i actually like playing maps with only one depot
16:40<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: I suggest you start counting the number of cities with trams, and the number of cities with electricity then :p
16:40<supermop>and scheduling non-revenue movements to get trains to their lines
16:40<Supercheese>Gamescripts cannot affect industry production changes, correct?
16:41<@planetmaker>no(t yet)
16:41<@Alberth>good night
16:41<Zuu>The later hower need to have a check that runns fairly often which means that you cannot check coal delivery of all towns in one go but need to do some towns, and then check all depots for illegal electric trains and then go back to checking delivery etc.
16:41<Supercheese>vale, dormiture
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: you misunderstand me on purpose...
16:41<@planetmaker>and it's conceptionally questionable whether they will. From my POV the most they'll ever can be made to do is ask the industry (newgrf) to change production
16:41<supermop>now we just need trains stranded on the tracks because you didn't generate enough power last month
16:41<@planetmaker>which it may ignore and totally do its own thing
16:41<Supercheese>GRF/Gamescript interfacing sounds good
16:42<supermop>or ran out of steam or diesel
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: under the condition of a town having an electric tram system [now or in the past], count the number of towns which had electricity before that tram system was introduced.
16:42<supermop>then we write a GS where your goal is to refund irate passengers their money
16:42<@Alberth>supermop: and then it gets fun bringing coal over the same set of tracks :p
16:42<Zuu>planetmaker: Even if NewGRF _can_ veto, its possible for someone to make a NewGRF that doesn't veto which makes it suitable to use along with a GS that do detailed control.
16:43<supermop>(Refunded $10234 out of $2000000 last month!)
16:43<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: you probably win then
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16:43<@planetmaker>Zuu, yes, of course. I know already a NewGRF which likely then would support it. Or two ;-)
16:44<supermop>Also supply food to depots to stock the snack cart on passenger trains
16:44-!-kero [~keikoz@1.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: kero]
16:44<supermop>(can't build plane! Must supply 20 crates of small soda cans this month to build 737!)
16:46<@planetmaker>lol
16:46<@planetmaker>and helium to lift it :-P
16:48<supermop>if one really wanted to go down this route it would be best to just discount running cost on a per traction type basis
16:48<supermop>not sure GS can do that
16:54<supermop>planetmaker: must deliver the helium quickly though or it will leak out of the crates!
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17:26<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: we have "late delivery" penalties for that
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20:04<drac_boy>hi
20:04<drac_boy>silly non-game question heh...any of you know of any good pcie wireless cards? I only knew a bit about a few pci ones before so mm yeah :-s
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21:18*Flygon shakes drac_boy
21:19*drac_boy whumps flygon with a pillow
21:19<drac_boy>how're you? :P
21:19<Flygon>Decent enough
21:19<Flygon>You?
21:19<drac_boy>doing ok, trying sort out computers but meh ;)
21:21<Flygon>Sounds like fun
21:21<drac_boy>what you doing anyway?
21:23<Flygon>Watching videos
21:25<drac_boy>what kind?
21:26<Flygon>Someone did one of those Downfall-Hitler-scene-resubtitlings with regards to myki
21:26<Flygon>myki being the ticketing system being rolled out around Victoria
21:26<Flygon>It's surprisingly effective
21:27<drac_boy>is that the weird one where someone acts like he's hilter .. even being rude toward certain things?
21:27<Flygon>I'll send it via query
21:28<drac_boy>someone shared a clip some tim ago of him being fired from being a bus driver .... and one of the reprimd was that he was cursing at the childrens all the times!
21:29<Flygon>Ehh
21:30<Flygon>In Australia, everyone bloody curses
21:30<Flygon>Not that bloody is a curse word :p
21:32<drac_boy>to bloody hell with you flygon :P
21:32<Flygon>Hell aint a curse word either, mate
21:32*drac_boy whacks flygon anyway
21:32<drac_boy>heh
21:33<Flygon>Yay! I'm being whacked!
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21:34<drac_boy>flygon btw I think theres a video you hadn't seen yet....
21:34<Flygon>There's many videos I haven't seen yet
21:36<drac_boy>'chattanooga choo choo' .. its a mix of several different B&W clips together in a humorful way ....
21:36<drac_boy>even has at least two short parts to do with the three stoogies too :p
21:37<Flygon>Ah
21:37<Flygon>Sorry x:
21:37<Flygon>I don't often watch videos
21:38<drac_boy>one of my few favorite part in that clip tho is when someone gets onto the step-on thing for the very last coach in the train .. but then turns around calling his friend to hurry up .... then .... the train starts leaving ....
21:38<drac_boy>and just as he turned around to step onboard....WHAM .. onto pavement instead .. and his rushing friend trips up just as badly too :)
21:38<drac_boy>talk about a silly slapstick
21:40<drac_boy>and flygon its in so many different movies but theres always that moment where you think the train is going crash but then it suddenly diverts onto a different route?
21:41<Flygon>Not many movies I see have trains in them, to be honest
21:41<drac_boy>theres still some good slapsticks to be had with cars too tho .. but mm
21:42<drac_boy>nothing like crashing a car into tree ... then BOINK BOINK BOINK comes down apple after apple onto the poor driver's head ;->
21:42<drac_boy>so silly :p
21:42<drac_boy>or of course driving in the fall season .. crash into tree .. and WHUMP .. a big heap of leaves everywhere
21:42<drac_boy>doesn't happen for real but still too silly to watch ofc
21:44<Flygon>Ahh...
21:44<Flygon>Australia doesn't have a fall season
21:44<Flygon>It's called Autumn here, and trees don't really shed that many leaves
21:44<Flygon>It comes with the usually sub-tropical climate
21:45<drac_boy>btw flygon some people might think these outback trucks are crazy but I think they're perfectly normal ... meh .. just ride the passenger seat in my modified landcruiser and you'll find out soon enough its a similar bumpy long ride too
21:46<Flygon>What sort of truck are you talking about here?
21:46<drac_boy>volvo ... mack ... just about any of them? :)
21:47<Flygon>http://bigrigcountry.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/australian_trucks2.jpg This is a truck
21:47<Flygon>http://www.adventure-tours-australia.com/australian-outback-photos/images/outback-water.jpg This is a 4wD
21:47<Flygon>4WD*
21:47<Flygon>Are you talking about a 4WD? :P
21:48<Flygon>(and yes, some trucks here are configured for DMU operation... it's cheaper than laying 3000-5000km of rails :p)
21:48<drac_boy>these http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000aKsjCkkleIk/s/600/600/2006-08-1060-Australian-Outback-Truck-Stop.jpg
21:49<Flygon>Ah
21:49<Flygon>I've never really ridden one
21:49<drac_boy>well..your first link's same then ;p
21:49<Flygon>Closest I've been to outback is regional New South Wales
21:50<drac_boy>flygon ... mm well near here theres a lot of bare country with little or no populations ... and a lot of the roads are ... well ... don't bother expecting any smooth ride a lot of the times
21:50<Flygon>Ah
21:50<drac_boy>so yeah its not too far removed from the australia outbacks .. except australia doesn't have tons of trees :)
21:50<Flygon>Here, 90% of the population lives in the South-East coast
21:50<Flygon>The rest is fairly desolate
21:51<Flygon>I probably live in the state with the most well maintained roads :p
21:51<drac_boy>flygon one moment let me find some 'similar' photos to show you...
21:52<Flygon>http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5014/5525333673_9f7b7ea0dc_z.jpg The worst roads come here
21:58<drac_boy>http://tailofthedragon.com/photos/trucks/truck01.jpg http://www.mendocinorally.com/Mendo-Lake Road 019.JPG http://driversed.com/courseware/images/unpaved road.jpg http://outfitterlife.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/dsc_09161.jpg?w=1024&h=685
21:58<drac_boy>these four comes close to the roads around here anyway :)
21:58<drac_boy>and yes thats a tight U turn on the first link
21:59<Flygon>Those aren't roads
21:59<Flygon>They're unmitigated nightmares :|
21:59<drac_boy>heh why nightmares? :)
22:02<drac_boy>or you not sure?
22:03<Flygon>They appear dangerous to drive on
22:03<drac_boy>they're pretty normal actually .. the danger is idiot drivers .... say that calfornia plated car in the ditch on a perfectly straight country highway during winter...seriously :->
22:04<drac_boy>I've never done anything except 50-80km/h ... except for the few rare tight corners
22:08<Flygon>Huh
22:08<Flygon>I go 80-100km/h on dirt roads here, slower on worse ones (obviously)
22:08<Flygon>But it helps the roads are perfectly straight, often
22:09<Flygon>Wet weather slows everything down to hell, though (dammit brakes, BRAKE!)
22:12<drac_boy>flygon ofc theres nothing like a 'new' car heading north toward a slight-uphill curve at a bit slow speed (as is usual) ... only to almost jump through the roof when out of the thickly-treed curve comes a 80km/h tank which then proceed to blast by in several seconds worth of thick dust cloud
22:13<Flygon>Why would you drive a new car on a dirt road?
22:13<drac_boy>some drivers always makes me wonder what the hell they are thinking
22:13<Flygon>http://i.imgur.com/xkDnU.jpg Also, derp
22:13<drac_boy>and btw flygon I actually once saw a ferrari on one of the rutty paved road .... like umm yeah .. the driver should know that a few km up the road it changes to moss-covered gravels :-.
22:14<drac_boy>I never stayed around to check .. heh
22:14<Flygon>Ehh
22:14<Flygon>If you want to drive a fast car
22:14<Flygon>Don't buy a Ferrari
22:14<Flygon>Buy a 5 year old car that was once marketed as a musclecar
22:14<Flygon>Bam
22:14<Flygon>Great acceleration, nice top speed, cheap price!
22:16<drac_boy>flygon the worst offender recently of course was a strange one..... one of these recent ford "fullsize sport" pickup that also only came with rwd alone too ... stopped toward side of road .... so mm I had to come to a stop and back up to then ask them just where they were trying to go to....
22:17<Flygon>(you may wanna shoot me, I drove on dirt roads in a FWD :p)
22:17<drac_boy>they told me they wanted to go further northwest .. I'm like yeah do you have a locker on THAT thing? .... whats a locker? .... ummm how much do you know about offroading anyway? ... not much ... well you better just forget about it and turn around now otherwise you are so going to be stuck period
22:17<Flygon>Heh
22:17<drac_boy>the roads they had wanted to head to .. I knew it was steep and quite rutty
22:17<Flygon>Here, offroading boils down to "Is it a compact? No? Good, go offroading"
22:18<drac_boy>and no cell .... so ... yeah it is not hard to do 2+2=duh
22:18<drac_boy>otherwise if you get stuck = you're very sol with noone around
22:18<Flygon>This does make it not unusual to have complete strangers towing others out
22:18<drac_boy>maybe but theres very few vehicles around tho
22:18<Flygon>eg. 4WD's being unbogged by FWD Sedans
22:18<drac_boy>so its best to forget about going if you're not already in a group .. that and having full drive too
22:19<Flygon>Yeah
22:19<Flygon>There is different protocol for more regional areas here too x3
22:19<Flygon>I would not go driving in more remote areas of Australia without enough water to supply a man for a month (in seperate tanks, in case of puncture), plenty of food, and possibly a Sattelite phone
22:20<Flygon>The car'd need AWD/4WD functionality, obviously :p
22:20<drac_boy>flygon mind you some of the roads even if not steep can be quite scratchy .. there's one particular long stretch that is almost straight but you really only can do about 40-50km/h max on it .... hint: too many "waves" in the surface aside to rain runoff mini-ditches too
22:20<drac_boy>so yeah its a lot of bouncing around in the cabin .... and being hopeful your head doesn't hit the roof
22:20<drac_boy>0_0
22:21<drac_boy>a few times I've actually managed to do complete air time on THAT stretch .. all four tires in air ... and thats not easy to do with a heavy vehicle :)
22:22<drac_boy>others are not so crazy but still ... you have to slow down literally nevertheless
22:23<Flygon>http://images.whereilive.com.au/images/uploads/2010/01/29/dcc4e1354c9e62f0d10c22794dd402b7_resized.JPG http://images.whereilive.com.au/images/uploads/gallery/2010/01/29/59629a3785553245ca409d35be5a8373_resized.jpg I don't comprehend how this is possible
22:23<Flygon>Ahh
22:23<drac_boy>flygon mind you even the smooth paved roads still have their own surprises too
22:23<Flygon>I've had plenty of air in my old car too, but that wasn't too often... and it's more often a reminder I'm breaking 100km/h :p
22:24<Flygon>drac_boy, if you want surprises, go on the Calder Freeway in Victoria :p
22:24<Flygon>"Not sure if driving on Freeway, or riding on a Rollercoaster", as one man once put it :p
22:24<Flygon>And it's 110km/h legal the whole way through...
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22:27<drac_boy>nothing like a long 90km/h road then going into an easy curve .. only to find theres a big hump hidden in there ... oh fsck!!! [brakes howling] ... THWMP WHUMP! ... *checks tail isn't fishtailing* ... [transmission rudely crashes into lower gear]
22:29<Flygon>Hmm
22:29<drac_boy>anyway flygon I'm going to bed soon, see you another time ok? :)
22:29<Flygon>Alright
22:29<Flygon>Also, if you want fun
22:29<Flygon>Go in a car that goes into 2nd gear from 4th @ 110km/h :p
22:29<Flygon>Calder Freeway does crazy things to a car
22:30<drac_boy>and flygon theres a few weird instances where eg theres a 'speed bump here!' sign .. nothing happens ... then several hundred meters later ... thumthump! .. yeah theres your "overdue" speed bump warning!
22:30<drac_boy>anyway bye now allright? :)
22:30<Flygon>Sleep well
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